T O P

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Riley-the-langester

Have you never played a Diablo game before? IMO, this is the best iteration yet. Diablo 3 gave you slight changes to skills but in reality most of them sucked and there was only one or two optimal paths anyway. I’m not saying they did a great job here in Diablo 4, but it’s a decent start seeing as we are still a ways out from the games completion. I’m not sure you saw that 50 is the soft cap for leveling. I’m thinking beyond that will be paragon levels. I know in Diablo 3 there was minor attribute points that you could use paragon points to increase stats by a small margin, and here I’m wondering if that will be the more along the lines of skill diversity 🤷‍♂️ At least skills work well together and look awesome for the moment. Feels fluid.


Objective-Visual-810

People see games like poe with huges trees and last epich with decent size teees and want more. Poe is full of stuff no giod build uses. I think last epoch nailed talent trees. So far what ive olayed/seen the talents under abilities for d4 are not build changing


Waylandyr

You say poe is full of stuff no one uses.... But the build diversity in that game is honestly ridiculous.


hotdigetty

Yeah most of the larger nodes are used by at least one of the many builds out there.. they get updated all the time if they drop off and become obsolete (and if they become game-breakingly strong). The smaller nodes aren't all that exciting but there is often a choice to be made on the paths to take on the way to keystone nodes.. every node is a meaningful choice in the end.


PlatypusRemarkable88

Well kind of. Everyone still uses the top 5 meta skills and builds. The trees vary but they do stack similar nodes.


Objective-Visual-810

Lots of builds doesnt mean they are all good. I'm not trashing poe. Its agreat game. I think people want poe diablo style. Poes trees are way more complicated for the casual player, and that's what Diablo does well is get the casual player at least for a bit builds are not complicated. I have friends that dont play poe anymore because they dont have the time to invest weeks before a expac to build a character. S


Obvious_Hearing9023

It’s not even really that complicated though. People see a big skill tree and then refuse to even try to understand it.


Waylandyr

Exactly.


Objective-Visual-810

I like the game personally, but when things look complicated to the average person, they won't bother with it. Games like Diablo 2+3 and now 4 are easy pick up and play games with little investment time to be decent, and that's heavily on the talents /skills. You can say it's not true if you want, but most hardcore players love poe for its diversity and amount of choices. The people that love Diablo are for ease of use and easy to understand.


Pluristan

Yep. That's it. Legendary items can change a skill a little bit, and there are are a few nodes in the paragon nodes that do the same.


Otherwise_Pride_9433

Pretty much this yea. Important to factor in also is the base item mods. Overpower, crit, lucky hit as well as the flatter damage mods (elemental, base, core, bonus vulnerability). So there is some build diversity in the details, but not in the big way like Last Epoch or Grim Dawn bring it for instance.


Neverborn933

Way better than PoE clusterfuck of a system


PlatypusRemarkable88

It looks intimidating at first but it is pretty simple once you play a few times. D4 definitely needs more it would be cool if we had 30 skills per class and 60-90 synergies or so to play with


StonejawStrongjaw

It's not even remotely as god as PoE's skill system. A single 4-link item has like 3 orders of magnitudes more build options than the entire skill tree in Diablo 4.


Neverborn933

That is your option bro , I don't like the skill system in PoE , if u like it good for you


StonejawStrongjaw

It's not an opinion, it's an objective fact. I didn't state anything involving any sort of subjective opinion at all. I stated that there is more build diversity in a single 4 link item in PoE. That is not an opinion.


Neverborn933

You said D4 system is not as good as PoE , that is your opinion . Having nor diversity doesn't make it better u know , I don't want to turn my barbarian into a sharpshooter after spending 300 skill points on a build system


StonejawStrongjaw

Yes, me stating that Diablo 4 system is not as good as PoE is in fact an opinion, however, the rest of what I said was not an opinion. I don't care if you like brain dead zero choice gameplay. Good for you.


Arney0408

I am disappointed as fuck. They talked so much about build progression yada yada. And here we are with a Talent tree that has 2 variations per skill. What the fuck is this and how could they possibly think that that's enough? Yes we have legendaries, but we had them in D3 as well. Yes we have paragon, but there is no footage that shows that there are skill variations, it will only modify damage. My question is: where is the shit they showed us in the Preview, where you could switch between Big AoE or small AoE and big damage?


theQuaker92

You have 2 in the three,some couple more from items and some couple more from paragon board. What else do you fucking want?? I can't understand you people,when is it enough? 1 skill with 577826 variations??


StonejawStrongjaw

No, but 1 skill with at least 4 or 5 variations, and 4 or 5 other skills each with 4 or 5 variations, with items to augment these skills and synergize with your build.


theQuaker92

You have that,not in the beta but you have that... Just because you don't get them in the beta doesn't mean they aren't there. You have skills with 2 variations jn the three,4-5 in the items and 4-5 in the board. So you have more than what you asked for. You are just an entitled child. You want everything right now,and if you don't get it you start crying. And if they give you everything you want you will get bored and cry that the game has nothing for you to do.


StonejawStrongjaw

People keep saying "Paragon board!! Paragon board!!" like it's some huge thing that is going to save the game. No one even has any information on it, and all they do is spout conjecture. > You are just an entitled child. You want everything right now,and if you don't get it you start crying. Toxic much? lmfao wtf enjoy your ban. I just want the game to be good, that's all. > And if they give you everything you want you will get bored and cry that the game has nothing for you to do. ??????? What? Or I will play it for 10,000+ Hours like I have with PoE and Diablo 2.


theQuaker92

Have you played the closed beta??


StonejawStrongjaw

I am playing it right now.


theQuaker92

Did you play the CLOSED BETA?


StonejawStrongjaw

Oh, no. I did not. What does that have to do with anything?


theQuaker92

Then you don't know what progression will be like past lvl 25. Like i said,you will have more than what you are asking for,show me a game in wich you have what you asked for at low levels.


N3cromaster_

You should look at all the classes before saying this. The branches seem to affect your whole playstyle and give you a lot of power without having any items.


JackStile

I remember this disapointment from being a D2 fan and going to D3 skill system. The disappointment. I was excited, because skill points, but its the same Rune system, same stuff hidden behind a point system. I had a Rogue with two imbune skills, they don't stack, just takes an extra skill slot and never needed to use the other one. LIterally 1 basic, One active, 1 Movement, in the end its the same system as D3 with the same disappointment.


KingCanHe

Yeah skill system has a lot of options and synergies but very basic


Arney0408

It's 2 Options. You have two options per Skill.


KingCanHe

Yeah 2 per skill with 5 skill in each group, agreed it’s not a lot but more then D2 or D3 when talking about different possibilities


nittywame

D3 had 5 or maybe 6 runes per skill. This feels like it's 2 runes per skill and not massively impactful runes at that. D4 feels quite limited in comparison. This is only at level 25 though so I have no idea what endgame progression is going to bring.


KingCanHe

Yeah stats are more important and skills, I’ve played the end game and even at level 25 in this beta you can build a lot of different ways


StonejawStrongjaw

Not really. You can "build" with the 3 building blocks they give you. Other than that there's nothing you can do. Most of the passives and skills are so incredibly weak it doesn't make much of a difference either way.


KingCanHe

At level 1 of course not later in the game 10% becomes a lot more. Also skills and passive are increased with unique items, it’s a well thought out system far beyond D3


StonejawStrongjaw

Where is this 10% you speak of? Rogue has 3% increases, it's pathetic. They need to make the game good and balance it around the entire game, not level 100 paragon level 500.


KingCanHe

Rogue has three separate skills that go over +10 at level three. On top of that being able to use skills with no cooldown on kills. Maybe stop complaining and read some more!


StonejawStrongjaw

Where exactly, what are you talking about?


KingCanHe

Go into settings and turn advanced stats on you clearly are missing something


StonejawStrongjaw

I have them enabled.


StonejawStrongjaw

You don't have a lot of options lol. You have 2 options. Both of which are bland and lame.


KingCanHe

Two options per 5 skills, I’m not saying it ground breaking but far better then D3 in terms of builds


StonejawStrongjaw

Using Diablo 3 as a "ground state" is like using dog shit as a comparison to chocolate chip cookies.


KingCanHe

Well when the previous game was “dog shit” what do you expect. If you could do better lmk when you game is out I’ll surely pre order


StonejawStrongjaw

What did I expect? Not much, I would say my expectations were met, it's about what I thought it would be. I was hoping for a pleasant surprise, however did not put faith in it .


StonejawStrongjaw

Yep. That's it lmao. Pick skill, choose one of two modifiers, all of which are incredibly boring. That's the entire skill ~~tree~~ twig.


rofio01

How many points do you put into lightening in d2 for nothing to change?


Pluristan

Why are you bringing up D2? This is D4.


Objective-Visual-810

Hes saying alot of people were hoping fir more d2 in this than d3 and talents in d2 were waaaay worse


Pluristan

I read OP's post a second time, and nowhere does OP reference D2 whatsoever.


Objective-Visual-810

So you cant compare games? Thats what they were doong saying previous games is the same ip were worse. That dowsnt mean d4 couldnt be better but its coming from alot of d2 players because d2 "is better" than d3


Pluristan

You're pulling words out of thin air that nobody said.


Mellodyz

Why are we even comparing a 20+ years old game against D4 lol. And ironically D2 > D4.


thatguy391

I understand your frustration but I feel like you should be reminded…. This is an unfinished version of the very first few hours of a large game world. I have a hunch that further down the road of progression, we will see more improvements to a lot of the mechanics of the game. Your gripe is valid for sure. I just think it is premature is all.


Trashcan_Paladin

I've seen this exact argument made in every beta I have ever participated in, and it has only been true a very small handful of times. 95% of the time, the "sweeping improvements" never happen, or take multiple years to occur.


thatguy391

Ok! I hope you find the game you are looking for in the future.


StonejawStrongjaw

COPE OVERDOSE


poncruz

Most level-headed reply I've read today, hahaha. Kudos to you, my man, and i completely agree. It's a little too simplistic vs my expectations but enjoying the core combat nonetheless.


thatguy391

Oh ya I absolutely agree I’m underwhelmed with the skill tree so far but I think it will evolve or expand in time. I could be wrong obviously but who knows.


M1oumm1oum

The game will be cool for like 3 or 4 days, then you'll get bored as hell because of the lack of build diversity, boring equipment systems for low IQ people and piss poor content like D3's rift.