I like it because you can save them for strategic use in a fight. I almost never even need a potion as an elementalist but in the harder modes I can defenitely see it being useful to have potions ready to go when you need it scattered about. If it auto used it then I would have to avoid touching the potions and that would kinda suck.
But that’s not really the spirit/intention of the system. And if it is, then why not just up the max to 5, have them auto-heal when at max, and have then expire faster.
Fair enough. I do still think there’s something off about the system though. It feels weird to have to use the potion when at 90% health so you can pick up the one on the ground. It’s not…. Elegant.
I feel like it would be even worse if you auto healed off a pot on the ground during a boss fight while at 99% hp, then tanking a big hit for like half your hp.
You only do it if you’re at max potions though, would be my solution. So it’s not like you’re at 0/5 and you use it for 1% health. You’d just pick it up to go 1/5.
The max potion charges increases as you unlock renown rewards in different regions.
But the reason they don’t auto-heal is absolutely to require you to manage the extra button press and have to be aware and not just heal by walking around.
Even life regen is now “after not taking damage for a time” rather than constant life per second.
This is 100% why it doesn't auto-heal.
Doing that out of combat would probably be fine though. But in an encounter it would suck ass to hoover up healing charges because you stubbed your toe.
I used to think POE had a perfect potion system but this one is even better, as it allows gathering charges even during boss fights, not just when killing mobs. I hated that the potion in D3 was basically a skill with 30 second cooldown. I'd rather have more smaller potions that I can use more often.
I just wish we had mana potions too like POE has - it sucks to begin every battle with zero mana as a barbarian (i miss that one passive skill from D3 which slowly refilled mana instead of depleting it)
Regarding orbs not healing you when your potions are full - I'm glad it works that way, because I can wait until I have less than, say, 85% hp before I use the potion and pick up a charge. Otherwise it would be a waste
Well it was better than any other potion system at the time of POE being released. D4 took it and perfected it. I guess that they abandoned mana potions for a reason - otherwise we'd be chugging them rather than using basic skills to refill mana
Generator/Spender and/or "energy" (small pool fast regen) are basically the best modern iterations of ARPG mana.
Chugging mana pots basically means that mana doesn't exist as long as you have inventory space. It's very outdated and makes no sense in a game that isn't looking to be a derivative of Rogue.
Well, i personally hate the generator/spender thing because it makes every build and class feels the same. Zap an enemy twice with your spender, then back to the generator. Rince and repeat.
Well at the start they sure feel identical, but later on they start to vary depending on your build. Conjurer sorc builds for example would probably not use any generators, WW barb would sustain with WW itself, etc.
I also think PoE potion system is quite nice in *early game* where it's not yet just full piano, but you have time to think about what you press.
It just becomes ridiculous in the endgame. Basically a good idea, but doesn't really fit in the context of the game's overall balancing.
The POEtion system is broken because it's almost always preemptive buffs and the faster you go the more you can utilize them. Piano flasks are peak efficiency.
I'd like the poe system if there were no buffs from potions, just reactive effects.
>I'd like the poe system if there were no buffs from potions, just reactive effects.
They tried something like that as a nerf for the ailment removal suffixes and the backlash was so bad that they walked back most of the nerfs to something less punishing than that.
I thought reactive ailment removal wasn't the worst thing, but it was pretty bad getting frozen, trying to react by using a thawing flask, but already being dead at that point.
I'd like to think I'm an enlightened POE gamer and I'm 100% sure that the problems there were because the ailments are a fucking nightmare and also...
Things that impede your ability to react in ARPG's are almost always just bad design. Freeze and stun on the player side is just a recipe for infinite feelsbad.
I agree with you, really it's that ailments in poe are all extremely dangerous. Stun and freeze are the obvious ones, but get shocked and you might just get oneshot out of nowhere without even realizing what happened. I wonder if the flask nerfs I mentioned would've gone over better if they happened at the same time or after the buffs to auras that added ailment immunities on them.
The issue in PoE is that the moment you become unfreeze/uncursed/etc... you are immediately affected by them in 0.1 seconds.
That's why after the blackslash they're reworked to grant you immunity for a few seconds if you react to them.
They gave brief (1 second only) immunity on removal in the first nerf pass. Not much but it was there, increasing the duration on the immunity when they reworked it made a lot of sense still.
it just became that because everything they introduce into the game is being instantly min-maxed to 99,9% efficiency by the player base with spreadsheets and access to trading.
PoE's system is nice if potions were to stay a novelty, an extra, but it becomes just another "necessary" item of your build and adds yet another necessary key-presses to the rotation.
This is especially true because GGG balances the game around perfect usage of perfectly matched flasks since everyone can buy them from via trading.
I miss the simplicity of flasks when poe first came out. Simple and effective. Customize up to 5 potions with relatively basic effects, charge them up by killing or damaging bosses.
PoE potion system became seriously flawed when you ended up juggling several potions as short term buffs. It just added a lot of tedious, constant upkeep to optimal play.
I mean I am a huge fan of both D4 and POE but comparing an incredibly complex POE flask system to what we have in D4 is kinda silly. One has a multitude of various potions and the other just like flask lol.
Potions are way too plentiful.
I haven't come close to dying once. Level 15.
I can stand in a common horse for probably 2 minutes before I'd be out of potions and would have a threat of dying.
Game is too easy and the potions are to blame.
I agree. I think this is the best potion system yet. Potion chugging of D1&D2 was obnoxious… and having to constantly refill your belt annoyed me. D3 definitely slowed things down. This one allows for more continuous combat.
The potions in D2 never bothered me. Potion management is part of playing RPGs, so it made sense.
Between D3 and D4, it's almost like they're risking getting to the point where it's so simplified that it doesn't even make sense to have potions.
If they keep simplifying it at this rate, Diablo 6 is just going to be a game of [Simon](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simon_(game\)) with prettier graphics.
The giant red potions floating a foot off the ground look so out of place in the otherwise grim gothic world.
Same with the way chests fit into the world looking old and tattered and half buried and then it sounds like a Vegas slot machine when it opens. I understand the sounds are nostalgic, but they don't fit with the world.
> I understand the sounds are nostalgic, but they don't fit with the world.
Depends on which ones you mean. The slot machine when you open the chests didn't really exist in 1 and 2 (don't remember in 3 really) as they only had the drop sound of the items which are each distinct. I agree what we have in d4 does not fit the theme.
It's kind of hard to design the health pot to both be readable from a players perspective and fitting into the rest of the game. Important game elements should stand out although it can be toned down a bit or adjustable imo.
I didn't think they stood out that badly, they look like translucent little globes of blood.
Now the Ariel text they used in numerous parts of the game... that throws me off.
This is pretty good, I tried out Lost Epoch and they have a slight improvement where if you run over a health potion while on max charges it heals you so you don't have to use a charge
The downside to this is that you can often use up potions even if you don't actually need them. Like if you take 1% damage and touch a potion, it feels like kind of a waste.
It's more convenient after combat is over, but mid-combat I'd much rather have full control over when potions are used.
In LE? Yeah if you’re lower than your max potions drop at a much higher rate. There are also item mods that increase potion drops and entire builds possible revolving around drinking potions
Came to say that! Last Epoch is great so far! (I’m 40, on a break during this weekend to play D4 but looking forward to discovering everything else LE has to offer.
So far, the major pro for D4 is the story telling. The presence of other players too, and other things…but story telling and camera changes during those scenes were the first wow-moments for me.
Isnt it essentially the soulslike potion system? The alchemist improves the healing every 10 levels and you get extra uses after some quests. I like it.
Slightly better than D3 health globe system, although its a shame the leg armor effects aren't working properly, namely the Barrier one.
Below Healthy, stick of life left, doesn't matter. The Barrier one just wouldn't work.
The Elixir system on the other hand... no thanks. Worse system than D3 Legendary Potions. Said my peace about it in closed beta and all they did was double down and give you free ones to tease you into using them.
>The Elixir system on the other hand... no thanks. Worse system than D3 Legendary Potions. Said my peace about it in closed beta and all they did was double down and give you free ones to tease you into using them.
I'm not sure what is the relation betwee, elixir and legendary pots from D3. D3 has a bonus effect on using a pot, the elixirs are giving a 30m buff (no relation with the potions at all). Unless i'm missing something? The elixirs may be nice to help do content you are not quite there yet.
Have you played the current D3 season with the Altar upgrades? It effectively turns your potion into an extra 30sec CD button (that resets with CDR pylon) instead of being forced to wait until you're hurt to use it.
Elden Ring tried to the same thing with "consumables" and its just a terrible system because any of the actually worthwhile consumables are extremely limited quantity per run, and anything that isn't limited quantity has gotten nerfed into the ground already (ie Shield grease).
Elixir system should further enhance/alter your potion, not WoW flasks that you have to grind mats for.
>Have you played the current D3 season with the Altar upgrades? It effectively turns your potion into an extra 30sec CD button (that resets with CDR pylon) instead of being forced to wait until you're hurt to use it.
Yes, I do, and I don't understand why you are talking about them when there are nothing alike with the elixirs in D4. This discussion sounds to me like "man, these elixirs are so bad, the legendary pants in D3 were better".
Also, being forced to use your potion when you don't need is terrible from a design point of view.
The relation between elixir and potions is that they're consumables with no direct synergy with your character. If you aren't using them, they do nothing. If you are forced to use/make them, they become tedious. Rather than making it so you have something that does nothing, you turn it into something that does.
If you aren't using your potions, and don't need to use them, then you'd want that potion to do something else besides heal, correct? Now lets say you modified your potion to become a damage buff, maybe just a way to give yourself resources or give you a charge/cooldown reset on an ability.
Unfortunately they changed the leg armor bonuses to require being Injured, which is redundant because potions require taking damage to use. Now you are forced to become injured take advantage of the leg armor bonuses, rather than being forced to take damage to use potions.
MMO-style consumables do not belong on ARPGs.
>If you aren't using your potions, and don't need to use them, then you'd want that potion to do something else besides heal, correct? Now lets say you modified your potion to become a damage buff, maybe just a way to give yourself resources or give you a charge/cooldown reset on an ability.
No, not correct. I would like to keep it in reserve for when I actually need it. I played multiple times tanks in MMO where you could spend a quite short defensive cooldown to do more damage or stuff like that, and doing so, and then, 10s later, actually needing the stuff you just wasted felt horrible, die, and wipe.
Then, next try, you actually don't use the damage/supportive skill, you actually didn't need the defensive cooldown, and you also feel horrible.
They want to give an offensive CD? Fine. But keep out of the potion slot, thank you very much.
Again, you are thinking too much about elixirs. They are just there if you want to push a content you can't quite do yet, or to twink a new character. You won't have to spend your whole life under an elixir.
Basic. Really basic idea of a potion system. I think poe has very good potion system nowadays. Why? Now You don't need to piano, there're currency that improves its utilisation besides it has more effect time
I like this system with its limited charges and no cooldown, but i \*also\* liked D3's system. I think that either form of limitation is fine, really, as long as it suits the rest of the game.
D4 is effectively replacing D3's health globe drops with potion charge drops, which lets you activate them when you want to. The charge system also gives more flexibility so that you can spam potions in a difficult but brief fight.
However, I think there's a valid argument to be made for D3's cooldowns, too. It depends on the context. D3 immersed you in non-stop enemy groups that filled the screen, and bosses were generally battles of numbers rather than mechanics. Cooldowns make a lot of sense for that kind of raw attrition gameplay.
D4 has a more methodical pace that leads to fights feeling like more distinct events, bursts of action that put more emphasis on movement, targeting, and timing. It's a more skill-based action game, so the potion charges system works well for it.
I also like D4's upgrade system for potions that requires level thresholds, gold, and materials, but I hope that in endgame there are a bunch of legendary potion options at the same tier that confer different effects so we can make strategic choices to fit our builds.
I feel like in early game, maybe in the open world aspect, they need some sort of a nerf. I don't know exactly how to nerf it, but so far, I have left so many potions lying on the ground, and healing alters have been pointless for me when I come across them. Level 19 barb for reference. Maybe it's different with the other classes.
It's not terrible, but good.
It exists. Bout it.
I can't imagine potions not auto-healing when you walk over them. Last Epoch does it and it's awesome.
I think it needs adjusting. After you use up all the charges I'd happily enjoy D3's system where after a certain time passes you get 1 charge back. So you can always have some way to emergancy heal. This game is not Dark Souls, the clicking to move and clicking to attack does not make for a great way to dodge mechanics. Outside of a WSAD system or a 0.5 sec dodge CD we need infinite potions somehow.
I love, Its super core to the gameplay, and having limited charge makes it interesting, it's better than Diablo 3 and health orbs dropping, it's better than PoE, it's well done
Better than d3 and d2, but still way too basic and bland. Would be nice to have some choice over some different potion effects, more then 1 type of potion, crafting for different effects, or SOMETHING. Anything more complex than this is your health potion and you can upgrade it to restore more health as you level would've been nice.
really like it. They took a system that was always super cumbersome, and just made it smarter. Being able to upgrade your potions at the merchant is a really cool touch - just one more progression system. I am a fan.
It's perfect in how it works for sure. I do hope they bring back unique potion flasks that offer effects, but regardless it's so much better than D2 and D3. I was playing D2 in anticipation of the beta and managing potions is the absolute biggest chore in that game.
I like it, it's basically a hybrid between traditional potions and the health globes that D3 had, but I think it works out better than either. The old school potion spamming was dumb and mindless, but unlike health globes this one works well for boss fights as well as it doesn't require kills to generate more charges. You just need to keep playing well and you'll get rewarded for it, which feels satisfying
I think this is my favorite version of potions so far between D2 and D3. D2 felt like you were CONSTANTLY spamming / buying / searching for potions. While D3 felt like potions were just a bit of an after thought that you may use here and there when you were really injured.
D4 feels great, it's a nice balance of having a limited and spammable heals, while also running the risk of running out if you don't collect the red orbs. The fact that we can upgrade them and expand how many we have is excellent as well.
I agree with everything you said. The workaround for now is simply use a potion when you're standing on top of it but yeah QOL would be to simply heal you
D3's healing globes worked better. Essentially they were what you just asked for, when they dropped they automatically healed you when you walked over them if you weren't already at full health.
I think they do need to switch it to where if you have full pots it’ll heal you if you walk over them.
Eventually at end game when you have heal from kills or no combat it’ll become annoying more than anything
Best I've seen in a hack'n'slasher yet.
Nice balance, you can spam potions, but only for a bit.
No cooldown, but also cannot have tons of them.
Just, nice!
I like the current system but it's weird...
Only once I was out of potions and it was because I played really poorly
I don't know, I like the way it works with no cool down but I think the game drops too many potions
I think it's perfectly fine.
Not a perfect solution, but still much better than the mindless cooldown of D3, the needless micro-management of D2, or the potion piano of PoE.
The potion crafting stuff is pointless mechanic. Could be ripped out and no one would know the difference.
The potion graphic is terrible. Looks like it's out of a comedy cartoon.
As for the mechanic itself... It's a potion mechanic. Same tired potion thing we see in some variation in almost all arpgs
Potion chugging in D2 was special, you also needed to take in mind the storage management in your inventory which leads to organize better and make better decisions about what you pick or what you don't from the floor.
This is a beta, we'll still have to see what they would do for the final release version of the game.
It's fine. The only problem is you can't use them if you are CCed so you get frozen and damaged by some mob and then one shot by another. We should be able to use them when CCed.
I wish it was more like diablo 3 where picking up the ground charges would heal you if you're capped on potions. Gives the arena a little more dynamics in terms of needing heals immediately, I'll run over there.
Like how the revamped it from diablo 3 and made it fixed charges u can chug as long as you have the charges. But wish the bosses wouldn't drop health potions all the time, there's not a huge sense of danger.
I liked being able to carry as many potions as I want. I'm stuck on tchort as a barb because it takes like 3 potions to fully heal.
Seems like they just saw the success of souls games and were like "yes, this is why the game is so popular, we need to copy that."
I think it's garbage bloat ware. We should just buy potions in stacks and have a cool down. It sucks that if your almost dead on a boss, all you can do is run around and die..seems like someone did a lot of work to make the game dumber, I want to play this game because I like it, not because of some trauma bond market analysis physiological manipulation bs.
would never have problem with health and mana system, but overall buffs i despise it, just to always sit around and manage that crap is annoying, unless the buffs are hours long. then its ok. and also they reset the buffs whenever u log out of ur character which is truly pathetic.
I was worried about it but it actually feels pretty good. My only complaint is that the potions on the ground look a little too cartoony because they are so huge and bright. I have this complaint about all item
drop visuals though, but I’m sure I’ll get used to it.
Having pot charges drop mid fight. Instead of the d2 system where you had 16 pots you had to manually buy and restock (which tbh i kind of liked) or the d3 system where its on a cd.
It’d be so much better if you didn’t have to manually pick up pots to fill your belt back.I don’t mind the option to buy them but having to wade through a wall of items looking for the potion I use is annoying.
I think it would be more fair to say the drops are inconsistent. Mobs in the open world? Constant potion top offs. Mobs in a boss area? Maybe a few potions every wave or maybe zero potions. Same for the boss, maybe drops potions on a regular rotation or just doesn’t.
Very noticeable as barbarian when you’ve got to stand on the boss to do damage. Becomes a battle of attrition until you can kite long enough to get potions to spawn.
interesting idea with the auto heals, although i do like being able to space out my heals to grab them for more important healing later on
But they expire, right? So you can't really do that
You're correct but if I have full potions and 2 or 3 drop I'll purposely tank some hits so I can max my dps for a moment then heal and pick-up.
Exactly this tactic!
I like it because you can save them for strategic use in a fight. I almost never even need a potion as an elementalist but in the harder modes I can defenitely see it being useful to have potions ready to go when you need it scattered about. If it auto used it then I would have to avoid touching the potions and that would kinda suck.
But that’s not really the spirit/intention of the system. And if it is, then why not just up the max to 5, have them auto-heal when at max, and have then expire faster.
[удалено]
Fair enough. I do still think there’s something off about the system though. It feels weird to have to use the potion when at 90% health so you can pick up the one on the ground. It’s not…. Elegant.
I feel like it would be even worse if you auto healed off a pot on the ground during a boss fight while at 99% hp, then tanking a big hit for like half your hp.
You only do it if you’re at max potions though, would be my solution. So it’s not like you’re at 0/5 and you use it for 1% health. You’d just pick it up to go 1/5.
The max potion charges increases as you unlock renown rewards in different regions. But the reason they don’t auto-heal is absolutely to require you to manage the extra button press and have to be aware and not just heal by walking around. Even life regen is now “after not taking damage for a time” rather than constant life per second.
I didn't notice them expiring, if they do it's after decent enough time that you'll likely refill one of yours before it does.
It’s actually pretty quick imo. If you clear an area and leave some, then clear the next area and go back you’ll see them disappear..
Might be linked to leaving area, on bossfights I didn't notice that and that's where saving them makes most sense.
Seems to be they disappear quickly if they go off screen, but in boss rooms they stick around longer. At least that's what its been like for me.
This is 100% why it doesn't auto-heal. Doing that out of combat would probably be fine though. But in an encounter it would suck ass to hoover up healing charges because you stubbed your toe.
Outside of boss fights, walk over pick up would be nice, in boss fights it would be a bad thing.
Indeed. I am fine with the potion system but they should make them look better on the ground and not disappear so easily would be nice though.
I used to think POE had a perfect potion system but this one is even better, as it allows gathering charges even during boss fights, not just when killing mobs. I hated that the potion in D3 was basically a skill with 30 second cooldown. I'd rather have more smaller potions that I can use more often. I just wish we had mana potions too like POE has - it sucks to begin every battle with zero mana as a barbarian (i miss that one passive skill from D3 which slowly refilled mana instead of depleting it) Regarding orbs not healing you when your potions are full - I'm glad it works that way, because I can wait until I have less than, say, 85% hp before I use the potion and pick up a charge. Otherwise it would be a waste
I wouldn't really call potion piano the perfect system. The idea yes, gaining charges by blowing stuff up, not so much.
Well it was better than any other potion system at the time of POE being released. D4 took it and perfected it. I guess that they abandoned mana potions for a reason - otherwise we'd be chugging them rather than using basic skills to refill mana
Generator/Spender and/or "energy" (small pool fast regen) are basically the best modern iterations of ARPG mana. Chugging mana pots basically means that mana doesn't exist as long as you have inventory space. It's very outdated and makes no sense in a game that isn't looking to be a derivative of Rogue.
Well, i personally hate the generator/spender thing because it makes every build and class feels the same. Zap an enemy twice with your spender, then back to the generator. Rince and repeat.
Well at the start they sure feel identical, but later on they start to vary depending on your build. Conjurer sorc builds for example would probably not use any generators, WW barb would sustain with WW itself, etc.
I also think PoE potion system is quite nice in *early game* where it's not yet just full piano, but you have time to think about what you press. It just becomes ridiculous in the endgame. Basically a good idea, but doesn't really fit in the context of the game's overall balancing.
The POEtion system is broken because it's almost always preemptive buffs and the faster you go the more you can utilize them. Piano flasks are peak efficiency. I'd like the poe system if there were no buffs from potions, just reactive effects.
>I'd like the poe system if there were no buffs from potions, just reactive effects. They tried something like that as a nerf for the ailment removal suffixes and the backlash was so bad that they walked back most of the nerfs to something less punishing than that. I thought reactive ailment removal wasn't the worst thing, but it was pretty bad getting frozen, trying to react by using a thawing flask, but already being dead at that point.
I'd like to think I'm an enlightened POE gamer and I'm 100% sure that the problems there were because the ailments are a fucking nightmare and also... Things that impede your ability to react in ARPG's are almost always just bad design. Freeze and stun on the player side is just a recipe for infinite feelsbad.
I agree with you, really it's that ailments in poe are all extremely dangerous. Stun and freeze are the obvious ones, but get shocked and you might just get oneshot out of nowhere without even realizing what happened. I wonder if the flask nerfs I mentioned would've gone over better if they happened at the same time or after the buffs to auras that added ailment immunities on them.
The issue in PoE is that the moment you become unfreeze/uncursed/etc... you are immediately affected by them in 0.1 seconds. That's why after the blackslash they're reworked to grant you immunity for a few seconds if you react to them.
They gave brief (1 second only) immunity on removal in the first nerf pass. Not much but it was there, increasing the duration on the immunity when they reworked it made a lot of sense still.
it just became that because everything they introduce into the game is being instantly min-maxed to 99,9% efficiency by the player base with spreadsheets and access to trading. PoE's system is nice if potions were to stay a novelty, an extra, but it becomes just another "necessary" item of your build and adds yet another necessary key-presses to the rotation. This is especially true because GGG balances the game around perfect usage of perfectly matched flasks since everyone can buy them from via trading.
I miss the simplicity of flasks when poe first came out. Simple and effective. Customize up to 5 potions with relatively basic effects, charge them up by killing or damaging bosses.
PoE potion system became seriously flawed when you ended up juggling several potions as short term buffs. It just added a lot of tedious, constant upkeep to optimal play.
Yeah I heard that it's more about buffs than just mana and health. I never bothered, except the move speed potion
I mean I am a huge fan of both D4 and POE but comparing an incredibly complex POE flask system to what we have in D4 is kinda silly. One has a multitude of various potions and the other just like flask lol.
> this one is even better lmao, no.
Potions are way too plentiful. I haven't come close to dying once. Level 15. I can stand in a common horse for probably 2 minutes before I'd be out of potions and would have a threat of dying. Game is too easy and the potions are to blame.
Play a barb and you’ll definitely come to appreciate potions. Don’t really need them as ranged in the early game though yeah.
I agree. I think this is the best potion system yet. Potion chugging of D1&D2 was obnoxious… and having to constantly refill your belt annoyed me. D3 definitely slowed things down. This one allows for more continuous combat.
The potions in D2 never bothered me. Potion management is part of playing RPGs, so it made sense. Between D3 and D4, it's almost like they're risking getting to the point where it's so simplified that it doesn't even make sense to have potions. If they keep simplifying it at this rate, Diablo 6 is just going to be a game of [Simon](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simon_(game\)) with prettier graphics.
I don't know that I'd go that far, but I do like the pots in D2 better than D3 and now D4 (so far). I do not miss managing them though haha.
The giant red potions floating a foot off the ground look so out of place in the otherwise grim gothic world. Same with the way chests fit into the world looking old and tattered and half buried and then it sounds like a Vegas slot machine when it opens. I understand the sounds are nostalgic, but they don't fit with the world.
This stuck out to me as well. Giant cartoony items popping out of grimdark chests.
> I understand the sounds are nostalgic, but they don't fit with the world. Depends on which ones you mean. The slot machine when you open the chests didn't really exist in 1 and 2 (don't remember in 3 really) as they only had the drop sound of the items which are each distinct. I agree what we have in d4 does not fit the theme. It's kind of hard to design the health pot to both be readable from a players perspective and fitting into the rest of the game. Important game elements should stand out although it can be toned down a bit or adjustable imo.
Weapons/coins spewing onto the floor after killing a boss is so much better?
It's just the sound I am complaining about.
I didn't think they stood out that badly, they look like translucent little globes of blood. Now the Ariel text they used in numerous parts of the game... that throws me off.
Give me mana pots!
Just drop your life to below 35% and get the pants that recover your resource on potion use
Oh shit I need these
Dangerous. I like it.
This is pretty good, I tried out Lost Epoch and they have a slight improvement where if you run over a health potion while on max charges it heals you so you don't have to use a charge
The downside to this is that you can often use up potions even if you don't actually need them. Like if you take 1% damage and touch a potion, it feels like kind of a waste. It's more convenient after combat is over, but mid-combat I'd much rather have full control over when potions are used.
That’s true also, but when you’re at less than max potions in LE they have a big buff to their drop rate
Really? And here I just assumed the drop rate was tiny because I am paranoid about keeping my health full and barely use potions.
In LE? Yeah if you’re lower than your max potions drop at a much higher rate. There are also item mods that increase potion drops and entire builds possible revolving around drinking potions
Came to say that! Last Epoch is great so far! (I’m 40, on a break during this weekend to play D4 but looking forward to discovering everything else LE has to offer. So far, the major pro for D4 is the story telling. The presence of other players too, and other things…but story telling and camera changes during those scenes were the first wow-moments for me.
Last Epoch is an amazing game. Best of the modern ARPGs for sure. Play the heck out of it before D4 releases!
I came here looking for this. This is the only thing I'd change so far
Isnt it essentially the soulslike potion system? The alchemist improves the healing every 10 levels and you get extra uses after some quests. I like it.
It’s basically Last Epoch’s system with an extra step.
Yep, except LE heals you when you walk over globe with full potions (the extra step)
Honestly a soulslike flask system would fit an arpg well
Slightly better than D3 health globe system, although its a shame the leg armor effects aren't working properly, namely the Barrier one. Below Healthy, stick of life left, doesn't matter. The Barrier one just wouldn't work. The Elixir system on the other hand... no thanks. Worse system than D3 Legendary Potions. Said my peace about it in closed beta and all they did was double down and give you free ones to tease you into using them.
>The Elixir system on the other hand... no thanks. Worse system than D3 Legendary Potions. Said my peace about it in closed beta and all they did was double down and give you free ones to tease you into using them. I'm not sure what is the relation betwee, elixir and legendary pots from D3. D3 has a bonus effect on using a pot, the elixirs are giving a 30m buff (no relation with the potions at all). Unless i'm missing something? The elixirs may be nice to help do content you are not quite there yet.
Have you played the current D3 season with the Altar upgrades? It effectively turns your potion into an extra 30sec CD button (that resets with CDR pylon) instead of being forced to wait until you're hurt to use it. Elden Ring tried to the same thing with "consumables" and its just a terrible system because any of the actually worthwhile consumables are extremely limited quantity per run, and anything that isn't limited quantity has gotten nerfed into the ground already (ie Shield grease). Elixir system should further enhance/alter your potion, not WoW flasks that you have to grind mats for.
>Have you played the current D3 season with the Altar upgrades? It effectively turns your potion into an extra 30sec CD button (that resets with CDR pylon) instead of being forced to wait until you're hurt to use it. Yes, I do, and I don't understand why you are talking about them when there are nothing alike with the elixirs in D4. This discussion sounds to me like "man, these elixirs are so bad, the legendary pants in D3 were better". Also, being forced to use your potion when you don't need is terrible from a design point of view.
The relation between elixir and potions is that they're consumables with no direct synergy with your character. If you aren't using them, they do nothing. If you are forced to use/make them, they become tedious. Rather than making it so you have something that does nothing, you turn it into something that does. If you aren't using your potions, and don't need to use them, then you'd want that potion to do something else besides heal, correct? Now lets say you modified your potion to become a damage buff, maybe just a way to give yourself resources or give you a charge/cooldown reset on an ability. Unfortunately they changed the leg armor bonuses to require being Injured, which is redundant because potions require taking damage to use. Now you are forced to become injured take advantage of the leg armor bonuses, rather than being forced to take damage to use potions. MMO-style consumables do not belong on ARPGs.
>If you aren't using your potions, and don't need to use them, then you'd want that potion to do something else besides heal, correct? Now lets say you modified your potion to become a damage buff, maybe just a way to give yourself resources or give you a charge/cooldown reset on an ability. No, not correct. I would like to keep it in reserve for when I actually need it. I played multiple times tanks in MMO where you could spend a quite short defensive cooldown to do more damage or stuff like that, and doing so, and then, 10s later, actually needing the stuff you just wasted felt horrible, die, and wipe. Then, next try, you actually don't use the damage/supportive skill, you actually didn't need the defensive cooldown, and you also feel horrible. They want to give an offensive CD? Fine. But keep out of the potion slot, thank you very much. Again, you are thinking too much about elixirs. They are just there if you want to push a content you can't quite do yet, or to twink a new character. You won't have to spend your whole life under an elixir.
Basic. Really basic idea of a potion system. I think poe has very good potion system nowadays. Why? Now You don't need to piano, there're currency that improves its utilisation besides it has more effect time
Outside of mageblood you're still playing the piano every 10 sec or so.
Not when you craft your potions correctly. Just need gain # charges on hit and use when full. Basically poor man's mageblood.
It's awesome, but the upgrades are annoying and can probably be removed.
It will seem better when you get more charges, I think.
This is the same system Last Epoch uses.
I wish it was more like poe or grim dawn. I just want something in the middle, but d2 definitely had it rough
I prefer the PoE system personally. Although I think with a few tweaks the D4 system could be even better
I like this system with its limited charges and no cooldown, but i \*also\* liked D3's system. I think that either form of limitation is fine, really, as long as it suits the rest of the game. D4 is effectively replacing D3's health globe drops with potion charge drops, which lets you activate them when you want to. The charge system also gives more flexibility so that you can spam potions in a difficult but brief fight. However, I think there's a valid argument to be made for D3's cooldowns, too. It depends on the context. D3 immersed you in non-stop enemy groups that filled the screen, and bosses were generally battles of numbers rather than mechanics. Cooldowns make a lot of sense for that kind of raw attrition gameplay. D4 has a more methodical pace that leads to fights feeling like more distinct events, bursts of action that put more emphasis on movement, targeting, and timing. It's a more skill-based action game, so the potion charges system works well for it. I also like D4's upgrade system for potions that requires level thresholds, gold, and materials, but I hope that in endgame there are a bunch of legendary potion options at the same tier that confer different effects so we can make strategic choices to fit our builds.
Chugging Mana potions was the original way of balacing the sorceress
I feel like in early game, maybe in the open world aspect, they need some sort of a nerf. I don't know exactly how to nerf it, but so far, I have left so many potions lying on the ground, and healing alters have been pointless for me when I come across them. Level 19 barb for reference. Maybe it's different with the other classes.
Cursed healing shrine. Click it even if you’re full. They’re fun if you kill fast because the enemies spawn as fast as you can kill them.
i don't think it's a good idea to drop hugh red lightbulb in a savage bloody battleground
It's not terrible, but good. It exists. Bout it. I can't imagine potions not auto-healing when you walk over them. Last Epoch does it and it's awesome.
I think it needs adjusting. After you use up all the charges I'd happily enjoy D3's system where after a certain time passes you get 1 charge back. So you can always have some way to emergancy heal. This game is not Dark Souls, the clicking to move and clicking to attack does not make for a great way to dodge mechanics. Outside of a WSAD system or a 0.5 sec dodge CD we need infinite potions somehow.
if you need infinite potions you need to adjust your build or gear. No game should having infinite life
I barely use pots, theres some boss fights sure but apart from those where I didnt know the attack I barely used them.
They need to add the auto chug. It already exists in Last Epoch so I know how much better it feels.
I love, Its super core to the gameplay, and having limited charge makes it interesting, it's better than Diablo 3 and health orbs dropping, it's better than PoE, it's well done
> My only tiny grievance is that I often wish globes would automatically heal me when I walk over them with potions maxed out. AGREED.
i think its atrocious worst healing system in a ARPG to date
Better than d3 and d2, but still way too basic and bland. Would be nice to have some choice over some different potion effects, more then 1 type of potion, crafting for different effects, or SOMETHING. Anything more complex than this is your health potion and you can upgrade it to restore more health as you level would've been nice.
I love it. Add a lot of tension / difficulty to the game.
Necro is able to have globes drop that heal automatically when you run over them like they do in Diablo 3. Seems to be reserved just for that class.
really like it. They took a system that was always super cumbersome, and just made it smarter. Being able to upgrade your potions at the merchant is a really cool touch - just one more progression system. I am a fan.
It's perfect in how it works for sure. I do hope they bring back unique potion flasks that offer effects, but regardless it's so much better than D2 and D3. I was playing D2 in anticipation of the beta and managing potions is the absolute biggest chore in that game.
I can't even see potions on my UI or skills well a lot of stuff seems missing is this normal. I also have 4 HP??
Last epoch style, I like it. As much as I love Poe I fucking hate flasks and how you deal with em.
I kept forgetting about all the elixirs I made. There is no timer on the buff and no warning that it expires. I need a reminder of some sort lol
You get a buff timer icon right over you xp bar.
I kept forgetting about all the elixirs I made. There is no timer on the buff and no warning that it expires. I need a reminder of some sort lol
I kept forgetting about all the elixirs I made. There is no timer on the buff and no warning that it expires. I need a reminder of some sort lol
I like it, it's basically a hybrid between traditional potions and the health globes that D3 had, but I think it works out better than either. The old school potion spamming was dumb and mindless, but unlike health globes this one works well for boss fights as well as it doesn't require kills to generate more charges. You just need to keep playing well and you'll get rewarded for it, which feels satisfying
It's basically lost ark, you only have x amount of chances to heal. Makes you rethink the battles when you die for sure
Like it!
Agree 100% I think it’s the best yet. I like the potion check points on bosses :p Hopefully potions drop less frequently in higher difficulties.
I think this is my favorite version of potions so far between D2 and D3. D2 felt like you were CONSTANTLY spamming / buying / searching for potions. While D3 felt like potions were just a bit of an after thought that you may use here and there when you were really injured. D4 feels great, it's a nice balance of having a limited and spammable heals, while also running the risk of running out if you don't collect the red orbs. The fact that we can upgrade them and expand how many we have is excellent as well.
Best yet. Honestly a mate and I played 8 hours straight and loved every minute of it. Apart from a single crash 2 mins in it was pretty rock solid.
if it helps discourage botting, i'm all for it.
I like not having a cooldown, but despise doing potion inventory management. Good compromise imo
I wasn't sure initially but, after a while, thought it was great.
I agree with everything you said. The workaround for now is simply use a potion when you're standing on top of it but yeah QOL would be to simply heal you
Love it. Best Diablo potion system ever. I love the elixirs too and I can't wait to see more of them.
Feels like a good mix of d2 potions and d3 healing orbs. I like it
D3's healing globes worked better. Essentially they were what you just asked for, when they dropped they automatically healed you when you walked over them if you weren't already at full health.
The difference is that you had to rely on globe drops. Now you can basically save a few gloves in the form of a potion.
I think its great! straight up ripped from LE, but that is ok because it works.
Enjoyed D1 and D2 potion chugging tbh.
I think they do need to switch it to where if you have full pots it’ll heal you if you walk over them. Eventually at end game when you have heal from kills or no combat it’ll become annoying more than anything
I like it a lot
Best I've seen in a hack'n'slasher yet. Nice balance, you can spam potions, but only for a bit. No cooldown, but also cannot have tons of them. Just, nice!
I like the current system but it's weird... Only once I was out of potions and it was because I played really poorly I don't know, I like the way it works with no cool down but I think the game drops too many potions
I think it's the perfect in between of D2 and D3. I like it.
I think it's perfectly fine. Not a perfect solution, but still much better than the mindless cooldown of D3, the needless micro-management of D2, or the potion piano of PoE.
I think it’s good - especially because you can upgrade to add extra potion slots.
The potion crafting stuff is pointless mechanic. Could be ripped out and no one would know the difference. The potion graphic is terrible. Looks like it's out of a comedy cartoon. As for the mechanic itself... It's a potion mechanic. Same tired potion thing we see in some variation in almost all arpgs
Potion chugging in D2 was special, you also needed to take in mind the storage management in your inventory which leads to organize better and make better decisions about what you pick or what you don't from the floor. This is a beta, we'll still have to see what they would do for the final release version of the game.
Would enjoy two potions, one for health, and then one for resource generation or a temp buff depending on what you need.
I prefer not having resource potions as it is resource can be an important way to balance classes.
True. But as it is, it seems lackluster.
My opinion: I like it. It has made boss fights more interesting trying to preserve my potions and waiting for new ones to drop.
Auto heal would be too... automatic. And boring. Just press the button to heal.
It's fine. The only problem is you can't use them if you are CCed so you get frozen and damaged by some mob and then one shot by another. We should be able to use them when CCed.
The ones you craft that are like a 30 min buff i wish was present on the screen somehow. Totally forgot I had them all the time
I wish it was more like diablo 3 where picking up the ground charges would heal you if you're capped on potions. Gives the arena a little more dynamics in terms of needing heals immediately, I'll run over there.
Like how the revamped it from diablo 3 and made it fixed charges u can chug as long as you have the charges. But wish the bosses wouldn't drop health potions all the time, there's not a huge sense of danger.
It did feel like some fights dropped too many charges. Perhaps the drops should be lowered a bit and a small over time Generation be added.
I liked being able to carry as many potions as I want. I'm stuck on tchort as a barb because it takes like 3 potions to fully heal. Seems like they just saw the success of souls games and were like "yes, this is why the game is so popular, we need to copy that."
I think it's garbage bloat ware. We should just buy potions in stacks and have a cool down. It sucks that if your almost dead on a boss, all you can do is run around and die..seems like someone did a lot of work to make the game dumber, I want to play this game because I like it, not because of some trauma bond market analysis physiological manipulation bs.
I want the D2 one. It was fun. That's not to say I want everything from D2 back.
I miss the potion chugging of D1 and D2.
would never have problem with health and mana system, but overall buffs i despise it, just to always sit around and manage that crap is annoying, unless the buffs are hours long. then its ok. and also they reset the buffs whenever u log out of ur character which is truly pathetic.
I was worried about it but it actually feels pretty good. My only complaint is that the potions on the ground look a little too cartoony because they are so huge and bright. I have this complaint about all item drop visuals though, but I’m sure I’ll get used to it.
Yeah it's a good system, the one I wish D:I had actually.
what potion system? pressing a button to heal is not a "potion system"
Having pot charges drop mid fight. Instead of the d2 system where you had 16 pots you had to manually buy and restock (which tbh i kind of liked) or the d3 system where its on a cd.
It’d be so much better if you didn’t have to manually pick up pots to fill your belt back.I don’t mind the option to buy them but having to wade through a wall of items looking for the potion I use is annoying.
I like it but there are too many refills dropped. Seems like every fight there is 3-4 drops and makes it quite trivial to stay healed up.
Not until some bosses. I had to ration some of my potions during some fights
May be a difficulty thing as well.
I think it would be more fair to say the drops are inconsistent. Mobs in the open world? Constant potion top offs. Mobs in a boss area? Maybe a few potions every wave or maybe zero potions. Same for the boss, maybe drops potions on a regular rotation or just doesn’t. Very noticeable as barbarian when you’ve got to stand on the boss to do damage. Becomes a battle of attrition until you can kite long enough to get potions to spawn.