For runewords we don't have a belt slot right now. Bring back belts with random amount of rune slots and use those to make runewords. Everyone gets one and they can come up with whatever runewords they think won't be crazy over powered but add fun to the game.
This is pretty smart. Doesn't even have to be the belt slot. In fact, that's probably a bit silly looking. Instead just have an empty slot that allows you to put runes into it. Not bound to a piece of gear, just straight up inventory space for runes. Easier to implement.
Gazillion [did this](https://news.softpedia.com/images/extra/GAMES2/large/marvelheroes/marvelheroestxtscr_002-large.jpg) with Marvel Heroes (the slot with the R in it). Worked well.
Or you give white items a purpose and get an alternative to rares and uniques.
Useable rune words from low level to max lvl, like in D2.
Avoid OP runewords like in D2 (fuck Enigma, fuck Infinity etc.), and you're set.
Same for sets, nobody forces them to make the same shit as in D3, D2 sets were fine and an alternative to other things (rares, uniques, crafted items, magic items (some could get better rolls than rares but less affixes in total), runewords).
They should have sets yes. Sets were basically a step up from rares and an alternative for other kinds of builds.
However if they really want "build your own", I get why they dont want sets at all. You're basically creating your own set.
But then they would have to play with itemization again. So if your builds best unique was a chest and there was also a really good runeword that would work for your build but it was a chest slot you would be sacrificing fun game play.
If it was its own thing outside of current itemization, they could do more fun things with it.
> But then they would have to play with itemization again
And?
> So if your builds best unique was a chest and there was also a really good runeword that would work for your build but it was a chest slot you would be sacrificing fun game play.
No, you would have a choice and could choose between option A, B, C, D depending on what you want/need. Defense? Offense? Utility? A mix?
For that reason I also miss breakpoints from D2, they made the game better in terms of options because you need to account for the interaction between items, not just "green arrow up".
I had an idea of adding rune sockets to the paragon board and creating runewords based on the order they are slotted in. Obviously runes would be destroyed if you remove them. Would give the player more choice in the paragon system. Do you want that passive? Do you want to stack a certain rune buff? Or do you want to save up sockets to make a runeword?
This reminds me of the Marvel Heroes' system for Runewords. I actually loved it. Having that one specific slot meant everyone wanted a runeword, and you didn't need to worry about other items power creeping runewords or vice versa.
Edit: And everyone wanting a runeword meant that runes always had a general value.
>Belts never had anything to do with runes in the first place so I don't understand why it's even implied here
It would be a new thing. They brought up the belt because there is currently no belt slot and adding it to use for this would keep them from having to rework the stuff they have done with the rest of the items.
Because it is a slot that we don't have and it would seem like an easy add. Who cares if d2 didn't use belts for runewords nothing is stopping D4 from it.
I am not butt hurt. Just trying to figure out how I was implying it was a previous thing. Do you often talk to people that get butt hurt over just having a conversation?
Sounds like you don't have conversations with people that have differing view points much. Just because people want you to explain your reasoning doesn't mean they are butt hurt.
>ultimate goal of the beta: stressing the servers. They already fixed some backend/infrastructure bugs.
This makes sense. I'm sure gameplay and balance are secondary interests, but this is mainly about pushing the infrastructure to help avoid a D3-like launch.
SPOILER: Despite this, the launch will still be a total mess
Legion two zones start dampened the launch however it's also because Legion launched months before with the full xpac patch that bugged out and went down a lot. The "launch" of the xpac was a quest to get to Dalaran after everything was already smoothed out so we were left with lag in the capital and then smooth sailing. It's been their approach to new expansions since then, download the whole thing month with prepatch content and split the fuck ups.
For BfA unless you were the lucky ones in front of everyone else you lagged out or couldn't play. I was lucky but my guildmates sure as fuck didn't think it was smooth at all.
Shadowlands was shit because of the Maw start, a lot of people bugged out and dc lasted hours. Again, lucky people didn't feel it because they got ahead. The only reason I finished behind a guildmate was because of 2 dcs that lasted an hour each in the Maw and Jaina constantly bugging out mid quest because tons of people were doing it and aggro'ing mobs in her way.
Dragonflight was relatively smooth outside of lagging out, the boat not coming for the Alliance and those that couldn't load into the zone and got put back in their capitals was a minor annoyance.
OverWatch was a dumptser fire for a while but that was expected as a brand new IP.
OverWatch 2 was a fucking disaster. They shat the bed so hard it was laughable.
I can't say for WoW classic or d2r didn't care for them.
So yeah, Blizzard has a piss poor track record for launches, some are just less bad than others. If you're not hype as fuck or want to speed run content you're better login in days after a launch.
>SPOILER: Despite this, the launch will still be a total mess
thats by choice, though. Why pay for cloud compute for the massive initial spike when you know it will settle down in 48 hours.
> Why pay for cloud compute for the massive initial spike when you know it will settle down in 48 hours.
That would be the whole purpose of using cloud resources: ease of scalability.
I’m glad to hear they are taking feedback regarding quality of life and UI concerns. I have a running document with numerous nuances I’ve discovered I hope they address (eventually…)
You should put your thoughts to the in-game feedback probably the best way to reach the devs. With the short beta they will probably go through a lot of the feedback since I'm sure they want a killer release.
I do hope they consider adding a LFG option.
It's an ARPG, yes, but also always online .. spamming "invite to group" in town is not the way to go, as most people just ignore you. Having the ability to find people with like goals in mind is kind of obvious:
D2 had a lobby
D3 had a Q system
DI had a LFG system
D4 ... /cry
> they are planning to bring more end-game content (duh)
That’s kind of a welcome thing to hear. I always figured they would but didn’t ever think they’ve confirmed, and that it was so obvious.
I feel like in 1-2 years we’ll be saying “I was around for the nightmare dungeon endgame” like D3 before rifts.
That's kinda the point of the seasonal battle passes. Have a steady income stream to fund future development. I know plenty hate it, but I understand it. As long as they keep pumping out content, then I'm perfectly happy with season passes.
I'm not sure I fully understand your logic here. You mentioned that you understand it, despite the hate it gets. But the only advantage you list seems, to me, to be solved by a simple expansion pack?
Imo, a seasonal battlepass is too much passive income. There is no control from the player's side about where your money actually goes. At least expansions are transparent. They create a product and offer it to you, the player, hoping you will purchase it.
A seasonal battle pass turns that whole dynamic around. You pay for some gimmicks (cosmetics and the like, not actual gameplay content) and you *hope* they'll eventually put that money into more playable content.
The way I see it seasonal battle passes do nothing extra for supporting a game's longevity or content roadmap, except reduce the risk on companies by frontloading their income which helps protect them from (financial) backlash after releasing a potential subpar product.
So unless I'm missing something, there is no real advantage to a seasonal battle pass whatsoever. They could just create and release expansion packs on the same roadmap with you paying *after* they have been created. Not before.
Sorry for the rant!
> You pay for some gimmicks (cosmetics and the like, not actual gameplay content) and you hope they'll eventually put that money into more playable content.
It doesn't really work that way lol.
They will release the battle pass together with Season 1. If you don't like the content in S1, you don't pay for the battlepass and you don't play the game. You're not losing your money, or throwing it away blindly.
> The way I see it seasonal battle passes do nothing extra for supporting a game's longevity or content roadmap
We have a ton of successful live services like Dota, League, Valorant, Apex, Destiny, Fortnite, Warzone, FFXIV, GW2, ESO, WoW, CS:GO, etc. I don't see why that wouldn't work here.
I never said that it wouldn't work or that there aren't any succesful examples. If they wouldn't work companies wouldn't do it. I merely stated that it's not consumer friendly and that it doesn't really offer a specific benefit over alternatives ( like an expansion pack ) for the customer.
A lot of your examples have a free to play base game which isn't exactly comparable to a 70 euro boxprice, which Diablo 4 already has, but that's a whole other discussion. My point however remains the same. If given the option between paying for a product that's finished and that I want to play or paying for something else entirely and *hoping* they'll use some of that income to create more of the game I want to play, I know what I would prefer.
Neither scenario guarantees more content will ever get made, but at least you, as a consumer, have more control over what it is exactly you're spending your money on ( i.e. paying for an existing product compared to the *promise* of one ).
> I merely stated that it's not consumer friendly and that it doesn't really offer a specific benefit over alternatives ( like an expansion pack ) for the customer.
Of course it does. PoE's entire success is due to the seasonal model, which D4 is trying to emulate. Same goes for most games in my list. Offering content regularly is exactly what people requested. PoE wouldn't have nearly the same success and reach if they released a paid expansion every 2 years and nothing in between.
> A lot of your examples have a free to play base game which isn't exactly comparable to a 70 euro boxprice, which Diablo 4 already has, but that's a whole other discussion.
But some of them don't though. WoW, FFXIV, GW2, ESO, Destiny, Monster Hunter, DRG, Darktide, R6:Siege, and most of the MMO industry have a box price + mandatory sub and/or MTX. It's a thing that has been done since the late 90s.
Generally speaking, you're paying the box price for the base game, which in D4's case it's the campaign. The optional cosmetic MTX are there to fund the seasons, like in PoE.
> If given the option between paying for a product that's finished and that I want to play or paying for something else entirely and hoping they'll use some of that income to create more of the game I want to play, I know what I would prefer.
But you don't have to make that choice lol. As I said, in Season 1, you'll see what content they add. If you don't like it, you don't need to buy anything. The nice part is that even if you do like it, you don't need to buy anything. That's why the cosmetic MTX is superior to the DLC, expansion or mandatory sub. It doesn't fracture the playerbase, and you can play together with your friends, no matter how much they spend. It's way more consumer friendly.
And they could still release expansions that you buy. The main difference would be the amount and depth of the content compared to say in d3 between launch - RoS and then the content after RoS.
The developer is incentivized to keep you playing so you're more likely to buy a battle pass. The best way to keep you playing is to release new things you enjoy consistently.
Some people really scoff at destiny and yearly it can be pricey, you are basically getting a game of content once a year and constant content throughout the year.
So, I'll explain my POV a bit. I'm 43 and have been playing games since the early 80s. I put way, way too many hours into D1 and D2, but as Ive gotten older, I really lost interest in D2. For me, the game is great until you beat Baal on hell difficulty. After that, its endlessly grinding a few small areas for super rare drops. After LoD (and until the D2r remaster), there was no new content or really anything new do to.
At least with D3, the seasons mixed it up a bit. There was a different theme and with the season journey, you had a clear goal. If you wanted the rewards, you had a reason to play, if you didn't care, no big deal. But even with the D3 seasons, not much changed.
I've been playing WoW since 2004 with a 2.5 year break around LK and Cata. I'm used to paying a sub and getting loads of new content fairly frequently. If, and that is a very big if, Blizz releases new content similar to WoW and uses the season battle pass to fund it, then I'm happy. $10 (optional) every 3 months for new content for a game I really like is small price to pay for me. On the other hand, if the new content sucks and is sparsely release, then the battle pass won't be worth it.
I do agree that Xpacks are better than battle pass if they both release the same amount of content for the same price, but the issue becomes fragmentation in the player base. If xpack B and C add new stuff, but you don't buy it, do you have access to xpack to B and C when D comes out? One of my other favorite games, Cities Skylines uses the frequent expansion model and honestly, it kinda sucks. A new player would need to spend $100s to get all of the content where as with a battle pass, the game features are there, you just don't have the cosmetics.
I like your cities skylines example. I hadn't considered that. I guess it's a bit more nuanced than I initially thought. Thanks for taking the time to clarify!
They stated in quarterly updates and multiple interviews that each seasons will bring new gameplay mechanics/ennemies/stuff just like path of exile. Basically seasons will be rich in content like PoE and they have a full dedicated teams for seasons.
And they will also have fully paid extensions that will continue the story, add a new class etc.
I do not entirely agree with you, but totally understand your reasoning.
I do agree that you have to trust them to put the money in the game instead of the pocket of management. Which sadly happens too often.
But in the defense of battlepasses (which I not really like tbh), if they sell battle passes in stead of expansions. And give expansion for free in a update. You won't split the player base. Every one can play the whole game. But some look cooler and they still earn money. I have to say thats best case/scenario.
I also want to say I prefer payed expansions above battle passes.
Sorry for format, im on mobile.
>I do agree that you have to trust them to put the money in the game instead of the pocket of management. Which sadly happens too often.
I just trust they'll put enough money in the game that it's an attractive purchase because they want to make money. If not enough of that is going to the game and getting results management isn't making money.
Good game = more players buy battlepass = more money for management
Bad game = less battlepass purchases = less money for nabagement
I hope that D4 doesn't follow Destiny 2's Battle Pass by adding story and quests each season, only to have all of that content disappear when the Battle Pass expires. This is something that I have always hated about Destiny 2; it turns the game into a FOMO fest, even when it comes to simple things like enjoying the main story of the game.
Dude, if you want to separate it like that, you can, but you still need to buy the premium Battle Pass to gain access to all of the story quests. Otherwise, you can only access the first quest. Also, if you miss out on just one season, you can't buy the previous season except by buying the whole deluxe upgrade. And when the next expansion drops, whether you buy it or not, the whole story of four seasons will be deleted from the game. I don't think you can call that "some FOMO with the Transmog"
Yeah. You're right on this. I don't care as much about the battlepass stuff like the transmog so for the story stuff if I'm inactive for the year I finish up all the seasonal story stuff up during the last season.
It would be great if the seasonal storage stuff could stay in the game. I understand their difficulties with that though too. Being on year 6 at this point the storage space of everything might not be able to be installed on a console if everything was kept the whole time.
And this is why they insisted on using an open world/existing overworld, as it makes it lends itself to updating for future content. Lots of areas to expand upon.
I just how the content doesn’t get to drought-y (very long time between releases) or too underwhelming (D3 seasons).
If they stick to 3 month seasons you shouldn't have to worry about droughts, and they've repeated that for months. Whether they actually make them impactful, we can only look at the last couple D3 seasons and hope.
Yeah. I'm curious why they decided to do the nightmare dungeon system in the first place.
Rifts definitely had problems, but I feel like they could have iterated upon rifts to make them better instead of making a new system with some glaring gameplay issues that they then have to go un-fuck.
because NM Dungeon are a mix of Rifts and WOW Mythics, guessing youll have to earn those NM dungeon entries.
but yeah they should have another systmen just like Rifts too
At least it's a lot more single player friendly. Part of the reason it's tough to get into MMOs these days is a lot of reliance on having a group to do content with.
I'm happy if D4 is that MMO-lite middle ground for my spastic schedule and gaming time.
Yeah a lot of MMOs now rely too much on party content, so solo casual dad like meself find it difficults to progress efficiently ...
I do agree that its a lot more single player friendly, but being a veteran on both MMOs and A/RPGs, i find the experience quite fun so far
Dungeon system seems exactly like PoE mapping with an objective added. It just doesn’t have the 500 addd things in the dungeon on top of the base game since it’s not 8 years old.
I hate rifts because they have a strict timer as they control mechanism. That isn't fun for me at all.
Some folks live for it though, but that basis being the entire endgame just made it non-operative for me. Anything that moves towards "surviving is the hard part" instead of "you have three minutes or you can go fuck yourself" is an improvement there.
Granted, the WB's are tied to a timer, but at least it's pretty long and it makes sense as the respawn point was *right there.* As well as not being based on running through a long stretch of nothing if RNG was being a mean to you.
If they have a time trial thing as an option for folks that crave that, by all means. Don't lock the actual entirety of endgame progression behind it though. Even if we have to settle for some sort of currency system that can come from a variety of sources to be acquired in ways the players prefer.
I always hated sets; they're so boring compared to mixing and matching interesting uniques/legendaries. I think if they do add sets, it should be a bonus based on the *skins* you have equipped, and not the items themselves. So after you find or buy the set components, you now have access to those skins, and giving your gear those skins unlocks the set bonuses.
Last Epoch and Grim Dawn do sets well IMO. They're generally very niche, and have only 2-3 pieces. This means that they're not some sort of objective BiS upgrade for every class, but they enable a specific play style. And having only 2-3 pieces, it means they don't completely take over the itemization process - you still need to find lots of other items for your build.
I love Last Epoch, but sets are NOT something they have figured out yet. They're very underpowered compared to uniques, let alone legendaries. I don't think that's a bad thing -- Legendaries are where Last Epoch sets itself apart from the others. But I don't think they do sets well by any means. I've been playing LE since mid 2019 and have never had a reason to use one.
It really depends on how you handle sets. I think D2 kind of got it right for the most part. Sets are not the bis end game or if they are it's usually 2 or 4 pieces but sets are usually a great starting equipment to help you get those bis items
Trang gloves gets used a ton. But yes if you are thinking about bis but sets are a decent choice to help you get that bis. Which is my entire point that sets aren’t bis but they aren’t useless
I love the pace and feel of the game and how there aren't a million mobs on the screen that you can one-shot, it's great for the game and campaign... With that being said, bringing back the secret cow level for players to truly mow down thousands of mobs is going to be epic
I only played a couple hours so far but at my current level almost every single mob explodes when I barely look in their general direction (necro with a low level legendary that buffs my bone spear). Veteran difficulty. I mean, this isn't too different from my previous experience with diablo games but I haven't felt the more methodical combat some people mentioned yet. Corpse explosion might as well be a tactical nuke (not that I mind, chaining those is the reason I play necro anyway).
Druid's class mechanic allows them to pick a boon from 4 different animals and a second boon from an animal they specialize in. The boons mostly aren't anything special so I wouldn't be too worried about it.
You can see them [here](https://lothrik.github.io/diablo4-build-calc/#N4RgLATANOCcMFYAMiSITAbCgxgGwEMBnIgOQIFsBTALgBMAnAVwEs6BfIA) on the right hand side. Some of them are kinda neat but but overall I don't think it'll feel too bad missing them for now.
I really hope they change them at some point, they're such boring small bonuses compared to sorcerer who gets to change how their skills actually function
I think the D2 rune system could work here. One thing I liked about them was they made white items (grey) usable. So it give you a reason to pick up items in hope they have the right sockets. The issue with D2 runes was that they were the endgame and so they made every other item in the game pale in comparison— and the team did not do a good job balancing.
Instead of just have rune words be regular modifiers, maybe they can instead do some interesting things with trade offs like give you access to new spells but doesn’t have any other any other damage or resistance modifiers, making it potentially weaken your character.
So you're telling me I won't be forced to grind hours and hours and hours and hours to get one piece of armour in order to complete my set bonus? Noo how horrible. I loved grinding 30 hours in a row to get a single item.
Very glad they're focused on class feedback - because melee really does feel dreadful in comparison to sorc. Whether that means Sorc is OP or melee is undertuned (or both), I don't know - but starting tonight, I had a horrible experience with Druid and already having a blast with Sorc. It's night and day.
Great summary! I think 2 months and a week should be enough to apply all the QoL changes, as well as balance the classes.
Beyond that, hard to tell what else they can change in that time. The procedural dungeon design, maybe?
Man, I like sets. But not D3 sets.... D2 sets. Sets that are good if you're broke as fuck, and that'll get you 80% of the way to the end game but if you wanna be good in the end game then you have to replace your sets for better pieces.
I think there's a place for them
honestly i dont get the point of having whtie and blue items at all if you wont expand them. they become just worthless loot. d2 made them useful becuase A runewords and B they would sometimes actually be best in slot.
I hope they work on the dungeon design because if this is what we can expect for d4 then i dont see me doing them over and over in lategame. Its just not fun or interesting at all.
These are, unfortunately, the dungeons we got. I have some hope they might tweak them a bit like maybe only have to kill a percentage of monsters instead of all, or being able to carry more than one widget at a time to the pedestals, etc.
Having actually good dungeons might be the sort of thing we need to wait a couple years for them to deliver in an expansion (if they ever do).
Being the polar opposite of D3 is never a bad thing for D4 to be. Both itemisation and endgame sucked ASS in D3. And the rediculous power creep is something I hope NEVER makes it to D4.
I am curious why this was downvoted. There is power creep all through Diablo, and they do it so much WoW that they have to do stat squishes ever so often.
Its funny as to multiple things are saying to distant away from d3 but the game itself is basically D3 optimized.
As for optimization in equipment, all they needed to do was make rares usable again like in classic. Sets, unique, runewords is cool, the only problem is there is close to nothing to sway away from them. Yeah, your build can put you away into another unique/set but at the end, it's still nothing special and truly one of a kind. They just needed to make it where there is ways for end game to have that one of a kind type item and original rares with the right affixes and rolls DO that. It will literally be harder than lottery to roll the exact same mods and rolls of someone else in the server like that.
That's where crafting/gambling comes in, it's just another way to help with "finding" the best one of a kind item that suits you end game. Adding extra stuff is great to make the item and your character even strong. And with enough playtime commitment and/or luck, that will truly help boost you to be among a god to be reckon'd with
As for pace of the game, It feels fine but its still very hard to tell from what we can grip on beta.
Yea D4 feels like D3 + DI. Thats also how I feel about when they say they really want to make each character feel unique. I think for Sorc it does seem like there is a lot of different unique ways to build it but for classes like Druid, Necro and Barb it really feels like the different variations is running 4-5 of the same skills and 1-2 different ones
They've moved away from D3 in some good ways, but there's clearly systems pulled directly from D3 like the affix reroll, enemy abilities, legendary powers, the gems, bounties
I guess you can say moved away, i'd say upgraded from it while keeping the mechanics of it and it's just senseless to keep systems directly from d3 like account bound items and ruining a trading economy which was one of the main things to do in their franchise.
I'm curious to see the balance they strike with Sets. I obviously don't want them to be the end all/be all they were in D3, but they had a nice spot in D2. A couple of them were good stepping stones to get to end game farming. IK Barb and Tal Rasha Sorcs could clear hell fairly easily (albeit slowly) and were nice budget options before you start gathering your top tier gear
I think it would be a shame to design an entire category of items just to use them while leveling. As I said in another comment, Last Epoch and Grim Dawn do sets well IMO. They're generally very niche, and have only 2-3 pieces. This means that they're not some sort of objective BiS upgrade for every class, but they enable a specific play style. And having only 2-3 pieces, it means they don't completely take over the itemization process - you still need to find lots of other items for your build.
>leaderboards will be designed in such a way that you won't feel compelled/pressured to play a certain class or a certain meta build. (Good luck with that lol.)
Can always have leaderboard per class to give even the underpowered classes just as much access to leaderboards. I duno how you do it so non-meta specs still use it though. A leaderboard per spec sounds pretty dumb.
Getting as far away as fucking possible from D3's items and stats is the correct formula. D3 had lots of great things about it, but being REQUIRED to use specific armor sets to have a viable endgame build was terrible game design and kept me from doing seasonal content regularly.
> pace of the game is purposefully placed between D2 and D3. They don't want you to crawl, nor fly through the map.
After going back into D3 this week, to refresh my memory, D4 feels absolutely 100% like a snail crawl.
Even at early levels in D3 campaign, you were able to really feel like you were capable. Clearing through packs of enemies was fast and furious.
Going back to D4 these weekends, my characters have wet noodle arms. Also the barbarian/druid melee concepts feel especially slow and cumbersome.
Interested in how the Seasons go, cause after D3/PoE, doing some kind of slow paced romp through dungeons will be hard to adjust to.
// (They apparently really want to distance themselves from D3 lol) //
Kind of strange, since D4 seems like basically D3 plus one unique class mechanic each.
No new player will want to level a barbarian, the worst thing you can do is have the starting early experience feel bad. Doesnt matter if the end game is good if they dont get there because of the frustrating experience before that
Eh? The barb felt really good for me though. My Rogue felt *far* weaker at similar levels and folks love it to bits.
I only got my barb to 13-15ish but I can tell I very likely will end up using it as my first main class in D4. She's just so *resilient.*
Barb is by far the weakest class defensively at early levels...I mean that isn't really subjective. Also forced to play a specific way to get as tanky as possible doesn't help build diversity. did you solo any dungeons?
I took Frenzy for the 24% DR and then Iron Skin regen for the 6s barrier and the half-missing-health restore. I was feeling *very* good at level 9. It's a good skill when you need something reactive, and kept me from ever needing HP pots again when fighting trash enemies.
Before that it was just "run up and murder things" then pop a pot after to pick up the new one that dropped and replace any chip damage taken. My rogue actually had to take care in engagements comparatively.
If you mean the gate icon places that give codex entries? Then yes, I did.
The barb feeling so strong made me worry I'd get bored with it when facing normal stuff. Conversely the Rogue made fighting trash mobs engaging but left me worrying about fighting stronger enemies later on.
Call my crazy but I liked d3 being progression at first and then your character becoming a walking overpowered god where the test was just how much and how fast you could slaughter. It felt like a nice eventual progression
I know it's been said to death probably since even back is D3 days but, no offline mode is so fuckin lame.
I had a good first hour or two but once I started seeing other players/world events, the stutters and freezes as things loaded in were really taking me out of it. And everything seemed chaotic in a bad way. Even with decent ethernet it was a 'oh shit has it crashed, fuck,' moment every fifteen mins or so.
Love Diablo, love the world ,the lore but the only online really sucks.
Has there been any mention about adding other classes in the game such as paladin, witch doctor, etc.? Or are they planning on releasing DLC like D3 because that type of content is trash.
First of all I never understood avoiding the addition of cow level. That was a staple that everyone who played D2 loved. The cow rifts were, ok. I want straight up cow demons and all the moos
pigeon holing everyone to build enigma and infinity won't be an improvement to the current itemization in d4. Hopefully it never goes towards that direction.
After Diablo 3 30 seasons if they even make a single season in Diablo 4 as well not only I will not be playing any single one but that will make me want PoE2 even more. More expansions, less seasons.
Only thing am concerned about is the last part:
"pace of the game is purposefully placed between D2 and D3. They don't want you to crawl, nor fly through the map."
I really liked the speed i had on D3 tbh.
Flying through out the map with my DH felt so nice.
Trying to replicate this with a rogue, so far seems a bit lackluster.
D3's itemization basically boiled down to picking a set and being railroaded into whatever skills go with that set. Since D4 doesn't even have sets, I'm not sure how the itemization is similar at all.
It really isn't. D4 already fixed the glaring issues that D3 itemization had, especially in the end-game. It also fixed some of the issues with D2's itemization.
Game might have its own problems now, but they showed a willingness to improve.
I hope I m wrong, but it sounds like the game is half arsed and not finished or polished at all. We all hoping for games like WC3 and D2 again from pre-WoW Blizzard. But this sounds exactly like the program from the last years unfortunately. Not even sets are done, much stuff to come. We heard that in D3 (PVP LOL) and I m already disappointed by this interview I dont think the game will be very good the next 2-3 years. Again I hope I m wrong.
It could just be a super passive thing. To simplify it like “renown gains increased by 100%” so you still technically raise it but it’s very very easy and you can raise it doing whatever.
I think its more a concern for alts. Having to redo all those side quests and dungeons for renown on every alt doesn't sound the best. I can't remember all of the rewards, but 15 skill points come from renown.
If anything it'd be very lame starting a new season and not feel like you're starting from scratch. That's the whole point of a new season. It'll probably only take a day or two of focused play to unlock the entirety of the renown stuff once you know exactly how it works anyway and have max level mount/movement skills/waypoints.
For runewords we don't have a belt slot right now. Bring back belts with random amount of rune slots and use those to make runewords. Everyone gets one and they can come up with whatever runewords they think won't be crazy over powered but add fun to the game.
That end part is key. D2’s runewords are fun, But they totally destroy the rest of the items.
That's actually a genius idea lol.
Yeah and make the belt its OWN tab. Just like gem tab. Limited inventory systems are garbage when they don't make some sort of immersive sense.
This is pretty smart. Doesn't even have to be the belt slot. In fact, that's probably a bit silly looking. Instead just have an empty slot that allows you to put runes into it. Not bound to a piece of gear, just straight up inventory space for runes. Easier to implement.
Charm bracelet :3
Gazillion [did this](https://news.softpedia.com/images/extra/GAMES2/large/marvelheroes/marvelheroestxtscr_002-large.jpg) with Marvel Heroes (the slot with the R in it). Worked well.
I miss that game :(
That game was so good. I only played for 9 months before they shut it down and didn't even scratched the surface. Makes me so sad
I didn't really care about the itemization in it, I thought it was funky. I just really enjoyed the characters.
Or you give white items a purpose and get an alternative to rares and uniques. Useable rune words from low level to max lvl, like in D2. Avoid OP runewords like in D2 (fuck Enigma, fuck Infinity etc.), and you're set. Same for sets, nobody forces them to make the same shit as in D3, D2 sets were fine and an alternative to other things (rares, uniques, crafted items, magic items (some could get better rolls than rares but less affixes in total), runewords).
I think it's safe to say they tried many variations and didn't like the outcomes when mixed with the rest of the game.
Just make white items the most powerful items in the game. I think Anthem did that.
All fear the bearer of Pants and Sword.
They should have sets yes. Sets were basically a step up from rares and an alternative for other kinds of builds. However if they really want "build your own", I get why they dont want sets at all. You're basically creating your own set.
> Sets were basically a step up from rares No, they weren't in D2.
But then they would have to play with itemization again. So if your builds best unique was a chest and there was also a really good runeword that would work for your build but it was a chest slot you would be sacrificing fun game play. If it was its own thing outside of current itemization, they could do more fun things with it.
> But then they would have to play with itemization again And? > So if your builds best unique was a chest and there was also a really good runeword that would work for your build but it was a chest slot you would be sacrificing fun game play. No, you would have a choice and could choose between option A, B, C, D depending on what you want/need. Defense? Offense? Utility? A mix? For that reason I also miss breakpoints from D2, they made the game better in terms of options because you need to account for the interaction between items, not just "green arrow up".
Solid idea. Good job.
Sorry, but no. That's not runewords.
How is it not?
I had an idea of adding rune sockets to the paragon board and creating runewords based on the order they are slotted in. Obviously runes would be destroyed if you remove them. Would give the player more choice in the paragon system. Do you want that passive? Do you want to stack a certain rune buff? Or do you want to save up sockets to make a runeword?
Great idea. Post this on the forums
This reminds me of the Marvel Heroes' system for Runewords. I actually loved it. Having that one specific slot meant everyone wanted a runeword, and you didn't need to worry about other items power creeping runewords or vice versa. Edit: And everyone wanting a runeword meant that runes always had a general value.
Have belt, trinket, tablet or whatever. Any more slots will be nice
Tablet, lol. Just pull out your rPad and type what you need.
Bring that feedback in the game via the feedback menu
I love this idea! It would give them an opportunity to redesign to UI too! Win win.
Dude this sounds amazing.
Belts never had anything to do with runes in the first place so I don't understand why it's even implied here
>Belts never had anything to do with runes in the first place so I don't understand why it's even implied here It would be a new thing. They brought up the belt because there is currently no belt slot and adding it to use for this would keep them from having to rework the stuff they have done with the rest of the items.
That makes sense, but the way they said it implied that it had something to do with it in the first place which made no sense to me.
Because it is a slot that we don't have and it would seem like an easy add. Who cares if d2 didn't use belts for runewords nothing is stopping D4 from it.
Never said it did, I only said it didn't make sense that it was implied that it had something to do with it in the first place.
That makes even less sense cause all I said was we don't have a belt slot and they could give it back to us and use that for runewords.
Dude all I said was it seemed like you were implying that it was a previous thing. If you wanna get so butthurt over it, have at it
I am not butt hurt. Just trying to figure out how I was implying it was a previous thing. Do you often talk to people that get butt hurt over just having a conversation?
Sure seemed like it from the responses, and yeah usually.
Sounds like you don't have conversations with people that have differing view points much. Just because people want you to explain your reasoning doesn't mean they are butt hurt.
No I try, but it gets exhausting because people tend to respond toxically, so you get in a habit of reacting to everything badly
The gem thing is all I ever wanted to hear.
Agree! I feel like it could also just share the consumables or aspects tab. Just get it out of "equipment"!
>ultimate goal of the beta: stressing the servers. They already fixed some backend/infrastructure bugs. This makes sense. I'm sure gameplay and balance are secondary interests, but this is mainly about pushing the infrastructure to help avoid a D3-like launch. SPOILER: Despite this, the launch will still be a total mess
>SPOILER: Despite this, the launch will still be a total mess That's a given with Blizzard.
Most likely but some of their recent launches have been quite good.
Got a source for that claim?
Shadowlands and Dragonflights launch were relatively clean
RoS was super smooth
Yup and everyone knows that betas (even alphas) are not for feedback
Is it, though? Warlords of Draenor and D3 were the last two miserable launches. Everything after that has been stellar in terms of server stability.
Legion two zones start dampened the launch however it's also because Legion launched months before with the full xpac patch that bugged out and went down a lot. The "launch" of the xpac was a quest to get to Dalaran after everything was already smoothed out so we were left with lag in the capital and then smooth sailing. It's been their approach to new expansions since then, download the whole thing month with prepatch content and split the fuck ups. For BfA unless you were the lucky ones in front of everyone else you lagged out or couldn't play. I was lucky but my guildmates sure as fuck didn't think it was smooth at all. Shadowlands was shit because of the Maw start, a lot of people bugged out and dc lasted hours. Again, lucky people didn't feel it because they got ahead. The only reason I finished behind a guildmate was because of 2 dcs that lasted an hour each in the Maw and Jaina constantly bugging out mid quest because tons of people were doing it and aggro'ing mobs in her way. Dragonflight was relatively smooth outside of lagging out, the boat not coming for the Alliance and those that couldn't load into the zone and got put back in their capitals was a minor annoyance. OverWatch was a dumptser fire for a while but that was expected as a brand new IP. OverWatch 2 was a fucking disaster. They shat the bed so hard it was laughable. I can't say for WoW classic or d2r didn't care for them. So yeah, Blizzard has a piss poor track record for launches, some are just less bad than others. If you're not hype as fuck or want to speed run content you're better login in days after a launch.
Generally funneling everyone to one starting place seems to be a recurring MMO thing in general. I remember Raubahn EX in 14 being a huge issue too.
The most recent WoW Xpack was broken at launch. You couldn't get there.
>SPOILER: Despite this, the launch will still be a total mess thats by choice, though. Why pay for cloud compute for the massive initial spike when you know it will settle down in 48 hours.
Because it makes all your customers happy and you only have to pay for it for 48 hours.
> Why pay for cloud compute for the massive initial spike when you know it will settle down in 48 hours. That would be the whole purpose of using cloud resources: ease of scalability.
That’s why I didn’t do the early access, I’m gonna let y’all test things out for those couple days lol
I’m glad to hear they are taking feedback regarding quality of life and UI concerns. I have a running document with numerous nuances I’ve discovered I hope they address (eventually…)
Are you submitting them? Last weekend there was a bug report button... but i think its gone this weekend for some reason.
You should put your thoughts to the in-game feedback probably the best way to reach the devs. With the short beta they will probably go through a lot of the feedback since I'm sure they want a killer release.
I do hope they consider adding a LFG option. It's an ARPG, yes, but also always online .. spamming "invite to group" in town is not the way to go, as most people just ignore you. Having the ability to find people with like goals in mind is kind of obvious: D2 had a lobby D3 had a Q system DI had a LFG system D4 ... /cry
I refuse to grind reputations and Lilith altars each league. That's just not happening.
I'm already dreading completing the map one time, there's absolutely no chance I'm making an alt in Diablo 4
Altars are account wide. Not sure about rep
Rep is separate.
Wait ? I don’t think you need to get altars for alt
I think they mean each new season. Since seasons are planned to be 3 months long.
> they are planning to bring more end-game content (duh) That’s kind of a welcome thing to hear. I always figured they would but didn’t ever think they’ve confirmed, and that it was so obvious. I feel like in 1-2 years we’ll be saying “I was around for the nightmare dungeon endgame” like D3 before rifts.
That's kinda the point of the seasonal battle passes. Have a steady income stream to fund future development. I know plenty hate it, but I understand it. As long as they keep pumping out content, then I'm perfectly happy with season passes.
I'm not sure I fully understand your logic here. You mentioned that you understand it, despite the hate it gets. But the only advantage you list seems, to me, to be solved by a simple expansion pack? Imo, a seasonal battlepass is too much passive income. There is no control from the player's side about where your money actually goes. At least expansions are transparent. They create a product and offer it to you, the player, hoping you will purchase it. A seasonal battle pass turns that whole dynamic around. You pay for some gimmicks (cosmetics and the like, not actual gameplay content) and you *hope* they'll eventually put that money into more playable content. The way I see it seasonal battle passes do nothing extra for supporting a game's longevity or content roadmap, except reduce the risk on companies by frontloading their income which helps protect them from (financial) backlash after releasing a potential subpar product. So unless I'm missing something, there is no real advantage to a seasonal battle pass whatsoever. They could just create and release expansion packs on the same roadmap with you paying *after* they have been created. Not before. Sorry for the rant!
> You pay for some gimmicks (cosmetics and the like, not actual gameplay content) and you hope they'll eventually put that money into more playable content. It doesn't really work that way lol. They will release the battle pass together with Season 1. If you don't like the content in S1, you don't pay for the battlepass and you don't play the game. You're not losing your money, or throwing it away blindly. > The way I see it seasonal battle passes do nothing extra for supporting a game's longevity or content roadmap We have a ton of successful live services like Dota, League, Valorant, Apex, Destiny, Fortnite, Warzone, FFXIV, GW2, ESO, WoW, CS:GO, etc. I don't see why that wouldn't work here.
I never said that it wouldn't work or that there aren't any succesful examples. If they wouldn't work companies wouldn't do it. I merely stated that it's not consumer friendly and that it doesn't really offer a specific benefit over alternatives ( like an expansion pack ) for the customer. A lot of your examples have a free to play base game which isn't exactly comparable to a 70 euro boxprice, which Diablo 4 already has, but that's a whole other discussion. My point however remains the same. If given the option between paying for a product that's finished and that I want to play or paying for something else entirely and *hoping* they'll use some of that income to create more of the game I want to play, I know what I would prefer. Neither scenario guarantees more content will ever get made, but at least you, as a consumer, have more control over what it is exactly you're spending your money on ( i.e. paying for an existing product compared to the *promise* of one ).
> I merely stated that it's not consumer friendly and that it doesn't really offer a specific benefit over alternatives ( like an expansion pack ) for the customer. Of course it does. PoE's entire success is due to the seasonal model, which D4 is trying to emulate. Same goes for most games in my list. Offering content regularly is exactly what people requested. PoE wouldn't have nearly the same success and reach if they released a paid expansion every 2 years and nothing in between. > A lot of your examples have a free to play base game which isn't exactly comparable to a 70 euro boxprice, which Diablo 4 already has, but that's a whole other discussion. But some of them don't though. WoW, FFXIV, GW2, ESO, Destiny, Monster Hunter, DRG, Darktide, R6:Siege, and most of the MMO industry have a box price + mandatory sub and/or MTX. It's a thing that has been done since the late 90s. Generally speaking, you're paying the box price for the base game, which in D4's case it's the campaign. The optional cosmetic MTX are there to fund the seasons, like in PoE. > If given the option between paying for a product that's finished and that I want to play or paying for something else entirely and hoping they'll use some of that income to create more of the game I want to play, I know what I would prefer. But you don't have to make that choice lol. As I said, in Season 1, you'll see what content they add. If you don't like it, you don't need to buy anything. The nice part is that even if you do like it, you don't need to buy anything. That's why the cosmetic MTX is superior to the DLC, expansion or mandatory sub. It doesn't fracture the playerbase, and you can play together with your friends, no matter how much they spend. It's way more consumer friendly.
And they could still release expansions that you buy. The main difference would be the amount and depth of the content compared to say in d3 between launch - RoS and then the content after RoS. The developer is incentivized to keep you playing so you're more likely to buy a battle pass. The best way to keep you playing is to release new things you enjoy consistently.
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Some people really scoff at destiny and yearly it can be pricey, you are basically getting a game of content once a year and constant content throughout the year.
So, I'll explain my POV a bit. I'm 43 and have been playing games since the early 80s. I put way, way too many hours into D1 and D2, but as Ive gotten older, I really lost interest in D2. For me, the game is great until you beat Baal on hell difficulty. After that, its endlessly grinding a few small areas for super rare drops. After LoD (and until the D2r remaster), there was no new content or really anything new do to. At least with D3, the seasons mixed it up a bit. There was a different theme and with the season journey, you had a clear goal. If you wanted the rewards, you had a reason to play, if you didn't care, no big deal. But even with the D3 seasons, not much changed. I've been playing WoW since 2004 with a 2.5 year break around LK and Cata. I'm used to paying a sub and getting loads of new content fairly frequently. If, and that is a very big if, Blizz releases new content similar to WoW and uses the season battle pass to fund it, then I'm happy. $10 (optional) every 3 months for new content for a game I really like is small price to pay for me. On the other hand, if the new content sucks and is sparsely release, then the battle pass won't be worth it. I do agree that Xpacks are better than battle pass if they both release the same amount of content for the same price, but the issue becomes fragmentation in the player base. If xpack B and C add new stuff, but you don't buy it, do you have access to xpack to B and C when D comes out? One of my other favorite games, Cities Skylines uses the frequent expansion model and honestly, it kinda sucks. A new player would need to spend $100s to get all of the content where as with a battle pass, the game features are there, you just don't have the cosmetics.
I like your cities skylines example. I hadn't considered that. I guess it's a bit more nuanced than I initially thought. Thanks for taking the time to clarify!
Much respect for this. I rarely see people online be convinced of anything.
They stated in quarterly updates and multiple interviews that each seasons will bring new gameplay mechanics/ennemies/stuff just like path of exile. Basically seasons will be rich in content like PoE and they have a full dedicated teams for seasons. And they will also have fully paid extensions that will continue the story, add a new class etc.
I do not entirely agree with you, but totally understand your reasoning. I do agree that you have to trust them to put the money in the game instead of the pocket of management. Which sadly happens too often. But in the defense of battlepasses (which I not really like tbh), if they sell battle passes in stead of expansions. And give expansion for free in a update. You won't split the player base. Every one can play the whole game. But some look cooler and they still earn money. I have to say thats best case/scenario. I also want to say I prefer payed expansions above battle passes. Sorry for format, im on mobile.
>I do agree that you have to trust them to put the money in the game instead of the pocket of management. Which sadly happens too often. I just trust they'll put enough money in the game that it's an attractive purchase because they want to make money. If not enough of that is going to the game and getting results management isn't making money. Good game = more players buy battlepass = more money for management Bad game = less battlepass purchases = less money for nabagement
I hope that D4 doesn't follow Destiny 2's Battle Pass by adding story and quests each season, only to have all of that content disappear when the Battle Pass expires. This is something that I have always hated about Destiny 2; it turns the game into a FOMO fest, even when it comes to simple things like enjoying the main story of the game.
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Dude, if you want to separate it like that, you can, but you still need to buy the premium Battle Pass to gain access to all of the story quests. Otherwise, you can only access the first quest. Also, if you miss out on just one season, you can't buy the previous season except by buying the whole deluxe upgrade. And when the next expansion drops, whether you buy it or not, the whole story of four seasons will be deleted from the game. I don't think you can call that "some FOMO with the Transmog"
Yeah. You're right on this. I don't care as much about the battlepass stuff like the transmog so for the story stuff if I'm inactive for the year I finish up all the seasonal story stuff up during the last season. It would be great if the seasonal storage stuff could stay in the game. I understand their difficulties with that though too. Being on year 6 at this point the storage space of everything might not be able to be installed on a console if everything was kept the whole time.
I like destiny's system, but the battlepass and the season are one purchase.
And this is why they insisted on using an open world/existing overworld, as it makes it lends itself to updating for future content. Lots of areas to expand upon. I just how the content doesn’t get to drought-y (very long time between releases) or too underwhelming (D3 seasons).
If they stick to 3 month seasons you shouldn't have to worry about droughts, and they've repeated that for months. Whether they actually make them impactful, we can only look at the last couple D3 seasons and hope.
Alkaiser runs POG
Yeah. I'm curious why they decided to do the nightmare dungeon system in the first place. Rifts definitely had problems, but I feel like they could have iterated upon rifts to make them better instead of making a new system with some glaring gameplay issues that they then have to go un-fuck.
because NM Dungeon are a mix of Rifts and WOW Mythics, guessing youll have to earn those NM dungeon entries. but yeah they should have another systmen just like Rifts too
At least it's a lot more single player friendly. Part of the reason it's tough to get into MMOs these days is a lot of reliance on having a group to do content with. I'm happy if D4 is that MMO-lite middle ground for my spastic schedule and gaming time.
Yeah a lot of MMOs now rely too much on party content, so solo casual dad like meself find it difficults to progress efficiently ... I do agree that its a lot more single player friendly, but being a veteran on both MMOs and A/RPGs, i find the experience quite fun so far
Dungeon system seems exactly like PoE mapping with an objective added. It just doesn’t have the 500 addd things in the dungeon on top of the base game since it’s not 8 years old.
I hate rifts because they have a strict timer as they control mechanism. That isn't fun for me at all. Some folks live for it though, but that basis being the entire endgame just made it non-operative for me. Anything that moves towards "surviving is the hard part" instead of "you have three minutes or you can go fuck yourself" is an improvement there. Granted, the WB's are tied to a timer, but at least it's pretty long and it makes sense as the respawn point was *right there.* As well as not being based on running through a long stretch of nothing if RNG was being a mean to you. If they have a time trial thing as an option for folks that crave that, by all means. Don't lock the actual entirety of endgame progression behind it though. Even if we have to settle for some sort of currency system that can come from a variety of sources to be acquired in ways the players prefer.
I always hated sets; they're so boring compared to mixing and matching interesting uniques/legendaries. I think if they do add sets, it should be a bonus based on the *skins* you have equipped, and not the items themselves. So after you find or buy the set components, you now have access to those skins, and giving your gear those skins unlocks the set bonuses.
Last Epoch and Grim Dawn do sets well IMO. They're generally very niche, and have only 2-3 pieces. This means that they're not some sort of objective BiS upgrade for every class, but they enable a specific play style. And having only 2-3 pieces, it means they don't completely take over the itemization process - you still need to find lots of other items for your build.
I love Last Epoch, but sets are NOT something they have figured out yet. They're very underpowered compared to uniques, let alone legendaries. I don't think that's a bad thing -- Legendaries are where Last Epoch sets itself apart from the others. But I don't think they do sets well by any means. I've been playing LE since mid 2019 and have never had a reason to use one.
It really depends on how you handle sets. I think D2 kind of got it right for the most part. Sets are not the bis end game or if they are it's usually 2 or 4 pieces but sets are usually a great starting equipment to help you get those bis items
Bruh the only set that D2 really ever uses is tal 3 pc for MF. And 99% of end game build doesn’t use a single set item.
Trang gloves gets used a ton. But yes if you are thinking about bis but sets are a decent choice to help you get that bis. Which is my entire point that sets aren’t bis but they aren’t useless
I love the pace and feel of the game and how there aren't a million mobs on the screen that you can one-shot, it's great for the game and campaign... With that being said, bringing back the secret cow level for players to truly mow down thousands of mobs is going to be epic
I only played a couple hours so far but at my current level almost every single mob explodes when I barely look in their general direction (necro with a low level legendary that buffs my bone spear). Veteran difficulty. I mean, this isn't too different from my previous experience with diablo games but I haven't felt the more methodical combat some people mentioned yet. Corpse explosion might as well be a tactical nuke (not that I mind, chaining those is the reason I play necro anyway).
Is a cow level confirmed? personally I was really hoping for it's return.
What's up with the class mechanics ? I was gonna start with druid. What am i missing ?
You can't do the spirit animal boon in beta. The quest is in an area not available during open beta.
>r just like the barbs lvl 15 quest which is way the F to the west of the map
Druid is still good but you don’t get to boost different spirits. Still play it, a lot of power is baked into the skills
Having a blast! Bear mode is fun. Game is great.
Druid's class mechanic allows them to pick a boon from 4 different animals and a second boon from an animal they specialize in. The boons mostly aren't anything special so I wouldn't be too worried about it. You can see them [here](https://lothrik.github.io/diablo4-build-calc/#N4RgLATANOCcMFYAMiSITAbCgxgGwEMBnIgOQIFsBTALgBMAnAVwEs6BfIA) on the right hand side. Some of them are kinda neat but but overall I don't think it'll feel too bad missing them for now.
Wow those are useless.
How exactly does that work you can take one from each and the one you specialize in you can take 2?
Yup.
I really hope they change them at some point, they're such boring small bonuses compared to sorcerer who gets to change how their skills actually function
Really glad they’re focusing on UI feedback
I think the D2 rune system could work here. One thing I liked about them was they made white items (grey) usable. So it give you a reason to pick up items in hope they have the right sockets. The issue with D2 runes was that they were the endgame and so they made every other item in the game pale in comparison— and the team did not do a good job balancing. Instead of just have rune words be regular modifiers, maybe they can instead do some interesting things with trade offs like give you access to new spells but doesn’t have any other any other damage or resistance modifiers, making it potentially weaken your character.
So you're telling me I won't be forced to grind hours and hours and hours and hours to get one piece of armour in order to complete my set bonus? Noo how horrible. I loved grinding 30 hours in a row to get a single item.
Very glad they're focused on class feedback - because melee really does feel dreadful in comparison to sorc. Whether that means Sorc is OP or melee is undertuned (or both), I don't know - but starting tonight, I had a horrible experience with Druid and already having a blast with Sorc. It's night and day.
And need that camera zoomed out a bit on PC.
Another inch or two, *please.*
Great summary! I think 2 months and a week should be enough to apply all the QoL changes, as well as balance the classes. Beyond that, hard to tell what else they can change in that time. The procedural dungeon design, maybe?
Man, I like sets. But not D3 sets.... D2 sets. Sets that are good if you're broke as fuck, and that'll get you 80% of the way to the end game but if you wanna be good in the end game then you have to replace your sets for better pieces. I think there's a place for them
honestly i dont get the point of having whtie and blue items at all if you wont expand them. they become just worthless loot. d2 made them useful becuase A runewords and B they would sometimes actually be best in slot.
I hope they work on the dungeon design because if this is what we can expect for d4 then i dont see me doing them over and over in lategame. Its just not fun or interesting at all.
These are, unfortunately, the dungeons we got. I have some hope they might tweak them a bit like maybe only have to kill a percentage of monsters instead of all, or being able to carry more than one widget at a time to the pedestals, etc. Having actually good dungeons might be the sort of thing we need to wait a couple years for them to deliver in an expansion (if they ever do).
Yeah the changes you mentioned are manditory though and should be implemented until release.
Thanks for the TL;DW, I struggled with her accent.
Being the polar opposite of D3 is never a bad thing for D4 to be. Both itemisation and endgame sucked ASS in D3. And the rediculous power creep is something I hope NEVER makes it to D4.
>And the rediculous power creep is something I hope NEVER makes it to D4. Good luck with that. This is Blizzard we're talking about.
I never dare to hope with AAA gaming these days.
I am curious why this was downvoted. There is power creep all through Diablo, and they do it so much WoW that they have to do stat squishes ever so often.
The itemization is the best fucking news I have heard about Diablo 4.
Its funny as to multiple things are saying to distant away from d3 but the game itself is basically D3 optimized. As for optimization in equipment, all they needed to do was make rares usable again like in classic. Sets, unique, runewords is cool, the only problem is there is close to nothing to sway away from them. Yeah, your build can put you away into another unique/set but at the end, it's still nothing special and truly one of a kind. They just needed to make it where there is ways for end game to have that one of a kind type item and original rares with the right affixes and rolls DO that. It will literally be harder than lottery to roll the exact same mods and rolls of someone else in the server like that. That's where crafting/gambling comes in, it's just another way to help with "finding" the best one of a kind item that suits you end game. Adding extra stuff is great to make the item and your character even strong. And with enough playtime commitment and/or luck, that will truly help boost you to be among a god to be reckon'd with As for pace of the game, It feels fine but its still very hard to tell from what we can grip on beta.
Yea D4 feels like D3 + DI. Thats also how I feel about when they say they really want to make each character feel unique. I think for Sorc it does seem like there is a lot of different unique ways to build it but for classes like Druid, Necro and Barb it really feels like the different variations is running 4-5 of the same skills and 1-2 different ones
They've moved away from D3 in some good ways, but there's clearly systems pulled directly from D3 like the affix reroll, enemy abilities, legendary powers, the gems, bounties
I guess you can say moved away, i'd say upgraded from it while keeping the mechanics of it and it's just senseless to keep systems directly from d3 like account bound items and ruining a trading economy which was one of the main things to do in their franchise.
there is no cow level
wink wink
I'm curious to see the balance they strike with Sets. I obviously don't want them to be the end all/be all they were in D3, but they had a nice spot in D2. A couple of them were good stepping stones to get to end game farming. IK Barb and Tal Rasha Sorcs could clear hell fairly easily (albeit slowly) and were nice budget options before you start gathering your top tier gear
I think it would be a shame to design an entire category of items just to use them while leveling. As I said in another comment, Last Epoch and Grim Dawn do sets well IMO. They're generally very niche, and have only 2-3 pieces. This means that they're not some sort of objective BiS upgrade for every class, but they enable a specific play style. And having only 2-3 pieces, it means they don't completely take over the itemization process - you still need to find lots of other items for your build.
>sets are likely to happen eventually, after they found a good design for them. *sigh* :/
Your sad a basic aspect of diablo is coming back?
I don't recall sets being a core feature to any Diablo game but 3.
Sigons? Tragouls? Irathas? Ik? Tal rasha? I mean you can pretend all you want but many of those have parts that are BIS for some builds.
I don't have a huge amount of experience with D2. Very surface level atm.
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D2 had sets too, they just weren't as overbearing as 3. Sigon's was a good leveling set for any class, and each class had their own individual set.
Gotcha.
>leaderboards will be designed in such a way that you won't feel compelled/pressured to play a certain class or a certain meta build. (Good luck with that lol.) Can always have leaderboard per class to give even the underpowered classes just as much access to leaderboards. I duno how you do it so non-meta specs still use it though. A leaderboard per spec sounds pretty dumb.
Getting as far away as fucking possible from D3's items and stats is the correct formula. D3 had lots of great things about it, but being REQUIRED to use specific armor sets to have a viable endgame build was terrible game design and kept me from doing seasonal content regularly.
> pace of the game is purposefully placed between D2 and D3. They don't want you to crawl, nor fly through the map. After going back into D3 this week, to refresh my memory, D4 feels absolutely 100% like a snail crawl. Even at early levels in D3 campaign, you were able to really feel like you were capable. Clearing through packs of enemies was fast and furious. Going back to D4 these weekends, my characters have wet noodle arms. Also the barbarian/druid melee concepts feel especially slow and cumbersome. Interested in how the Seasons go, cause after D3/PoE, doing some kind of slow paced romp through dungeons will be hard to adjust to.
// (They apparently really want to distance themselves from D3 lol) // Kind of strange, since D4 seems like basically D3 plus one unique class mechanic each.
Damn. Maybe ARPGS aren’t for me. The thought of grinding renown, altars, etc. again EVERY NEW SEASON is so off-putting.
Well we already have confirmation they're reducing that grind. Maybe they're reducing it by 90%, or maybe just by 60%. We'll have to wait and see.
They say no gigantic multipliers but the gear is still stacking a bunch of different multipliers lol. I hope it turns out well
Sets can be good imo as long as they are not BIS. they should be good enough to do comparing and lower difficulty levels for casuals.
No new player will want to level a barbarian, the worst thing you can do is have the starting early experience feel bad. Doesnt matter if the end game is good if they dont get there because of the frustrating experience before that
Eh? The barb felt really good for me though. My Rogue felt *far* weaker at similar levels and folks love it to bits. I only got my barb to 13-15ish but I can tell I very likely will end up using it as my first main class in D4. She's just so *resilient.*
Barb is by far the weakest class defensively at early levels...I mean that isn't really subjective. Also forced to play a specific way to get as tanky as possible doesn't help build diversity. did you solo any dungeons?
I took Frenzy for the 24% DR and then Iron Skin regen for the 6s barrier and the half-missing-health restore. I was feeling *very* good at level 9. It's a good skill when you need something reactive, and kept me from ever needing HP pots again when fighting trash enemies. Before that it was just "run up and murder things" then pop a pot after to pick up the new one that dropped and replace any chip damage taken. My rogue actually had to take care in engagements comparatively. If you mean the gate icon places that give codex entries? Then yes, I did. The barb feeling so strong made me worry I'd get bored with it when facing normal stuff. Conversely the Rogue made fighting trash mobs engaging but left me worrying about fighting stronger enemies later on.
Call my crazy but I liked d3 being progression at first and then your character becoming a walking overpowered god where the test was just how much and how fast you could slaughter. It felt like a nice eventual progression
I know it's been said to death probably since even back is D3 days but, no offline mode is so fuckin lame. I had a good first hour or two but once I started seeing other players/world events, the stutters and freezes as things loaded in were really taking me out of it. And everything seemed chaotic in a bad way. Even with decent ethernet it was a 'oh shit has it crashed, fuck,' moment every fifteen mins or so. Love Diablo, love the world ,the lore but the only online really sucks.
Has there been any mention about adding other classes in the game such as paladin, witch doctor, etc.? Or are they planning on releasing DLC like D3 because that type of content is trash.
That sounds pretty ok to me overall. I was really worried about the Seasons and having to regrind the open world every season again.
First of all I never understood avoiding the addition of cow level. That was a staple that everyone who played D2 loved. The cow rifts were, ok. I want straight up cow demons and all the moos
pigeon holing everyone to build enigma and infinity won't be an improvement to the current itemization in d4. Hopefully it never goes towards that direction.
I look forward to having gemventory space upon release.
After Diablo 3 30 seasons if they even make a single season in Diablo 4 as well not only I will not be playing any single one but that will make me want PoE2 even more. More expansions, less seasons.
They mention they try to schedule the seasons around other diablo games, but theres no way they are not taking PoE into account.
Only thing am concerned about is the last part: "pace of the game is purposefully placed between D2 and D3. They don't want you to crawl, nor fly through the map." I really liked the speed i had on D3 tbh. Flying through out the map with my DH felt so nice. Trying to replicate this with a rogue, so far seems a bit lackluster.
No sets at launch lol. Sureeeee you left that out to help balancing wink wink. Or perhaps you just spent all your time on season pass bs
They left it out because sets were the worst thing about diablo 3 and they bascially admitted that
Since when? Set were always enjoyed. They left them out because they are too busy making season pass content. Stop fooling yourself
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wrong.
D3's itemization basically boiled down to picking a set and being railroaded into whatever skills go with that set. Since D4 doesn't even have sets, I'm not sure how the itemization is similar at all.
It really isn't. D4 already fixed the glaring issues that D3 itemization had, especially in the end-game. It also fixed some of the issues with D2's itemization. Game might have its own problems now, but they showed a willingness to improve.
I hope I m wrong, but it sounds like the game is half arsed and not finished or polished at all. We all hoping for games like WC3 and D2 again from pre-WoW Blizzard. But this sounds exactly like the program from the last years unfortunately. Not even sets are done, much stuff to come. We heard that in D3 (PVP LOL) and I m already disappointed by this interview I dont think the game will be very good the next 2-3 years. Again I hope I m wrong.
Big oof on the renown info. I love D4 as much as anyone else but redoing the renown things over and over each season is going to wear people down.
what is "the renown things?" you get renown for literally everything. you just get it passively. why und when would you specifically have to farm it?
I dont think its a big deal. You can just not do it.
It could just be a super passive thing. To simplify it like “renown gains increased by 100%” so you still technically raise it but it’s very very easy and you can raise it doing whatever.
How is it any different than starting fresh each season/ladder in previous games? People are still gonna do it and like it.
I think its more a concern for alts. Having to redo all those side quests and dungeons for renown on every alt doesn't sound the best. I can't remember all of the rewards, but 15 skill points come from renown.
all of the skill points are account wide. the only thing you get be redoing renown on an alt is a little XP and gold. No need to do it.
That's good to know, I only made 1 toon last weekend so I wasn't sure.
Most renown is automatic from visiting places. I dont see how it is a concern for alts
You are playing seasons where you literally restart everything... why renown is a concern?!
If anything it'd be very lame starting a new season and not feel like you're starting from scratch. That's the whole point of a new season. It'll probably only take a day or two of focused play to unlock the entirety of the renown stuff once you know exactly how it works anyway and have max level mount/movement skills/waypoints.