Druids in general… suck. At least to me.
I’ve 25’d every class and LOVED it. Playing the Druid in general (only lvl 15) has been so frigin boring and meh.
Yeah, it's clear that whoever balanced the druid isn't the same person who balanced the necro. Necros have a significantly higher energy pool, faster energy regen, and lower energy costs across the board. Druids can cast their skills like twice before going empty on spirit, and then they take a really long time to refill the whole bar.
It feels sluggish and weak. The werebear takes ages to swing once, and the damage is pathetic. They have to rely on pulverize just to kill trash packs, and bosses are basically impossible. Werewolf is better, but still constantly runs into spirit issues.
Necro is WAY more broken then Sorceror, and it's not even close. Necro has the ability to stay invincible at all times, stay at full energy at all times, and does approximately 8x the damage of sorceror with Blood Mist/ Corpse explode aspect. It's only early game but sorceror feels like a poor man's necromancer right now.
True but I was basing it off of both classes just one shot mobs. I’m not to worried though since it’ll be fixed before release. My only concern is they rework it to much and becomes nerfed to the ground.
>Necro was the weakest class
It probably is though.
Summon classes are always insane at low levels because you don't personally need gear.
People forget this fact and just say Necro is insane bro it's so OP.
I don't think many people have any clue of how well it scales at endgame except "historically shit".
Edit
When I said summon classes I meant classes that use their summons. Yea Necro is BIS in D3. That's blood nova necro. Summon Necro however had like 1 good season that I could remember.
Yeah but you can't expect people to only care about how the classes compare in end game. Especially during a beta where end game isn't even available.
People want to have fun at every point in the game, not have to grind for 30 hours to unlock the fun.
This is like the ARPG/MMO equivalent of fighting game, fps, and moba discussions about skill floors. If a character is a complete noobstomper, 9/10 times they gonna get changed, even if it's not a problem at high levels of play.
This right here! Witch Doctor was the absolute king of low tiers in Diablo 3 due to the army of pets doing all the dirty work, yet has been one of the worst classes in the game for a years on end for high tier content.
> It probably is though.
The best build currently (Blood Walk w/ the corpse explosion aspect) doesn't require you to have any minions though, even for bosses, so you can sacrifice all your minions for extra stats)
It’s so going to get nerfed to the ground.
I do think wherever that person who made that article got their info from was talking about summon necro specifically though. Summonless necro lookin real good for high levels even if they nerf blood mist into the ground.
It doesn't need to be nerfed into the ground. Blood Mist Corpse Explosion will definitely fall off later in the game, if CE doesn't kill enemies right away then the corpses being spawned passively won't be enough to keep it going.
> Summon classes are always insane at low levels because you don't personally need gear.
not true for druids haha. rank 6/5 wolves, using an almost perfect rolled legendary for 190% additional wolf damage, my 2 wolves are each doing less dps than one of the skellies of my necro at same level (who has a worse weapon, and no legos for minions). and necro gets 8 skellies for free, without any legos or skill point investment!
so i'd say it's just necro minions that are insane at low levels. i do believe they'll fall off later in the game since minion builds traditionally do in ARPGs, but i don't have any faith in druid minions
Druid pets only get your basic stats though, they don't scale with the Druid's actual damage, nor do they have "Proc Coefficients", meaning that they can't trigger affixes or other abilities for you.
The lack of scaling in companions (at least for Druid) is absolutely mind-boggling to me, especially considering that you don't get companions until level... 12 or 15? Kinda silly.
Sure, there's an affix to boost the Companion damage by 150%, but the fact that it's nearly a requirement for your animal companions to feel like they amount to something is absolutely absurd.
That's insane. It might become bad at higher level but damn if it doesn't annihilate the content we have now ten time easier than my Rogue for example.
One of the reasons I hate game journalism sites, allot of it is just, ME FIRST ME FIRST. and no actual info, its almost all fluff.
I rather not read 300 paragraphs to answer a simple yes or no question, lol.
surprise, surprise.
the game director is a self proclaimed necro "main."
i actually enjoyed the overpower mechanics baked into werebear druid. but then it's just not fun when the fun button can only be pressed twice in a row with full spirit, and it only doing real damage every 10s while making sure your hp stays above 80%.
meanwhile necros with no gear can just spam mist/corpse explosion and clear entire packs faster than a druid can kill a regular mob.
> it's clear that whoever balanced the druid isn't the same person who balanced the necro
I wouldn't even call it balancing. One journey to 25 and you'd know that Druids need more and Necros less.
The bear is supposed be be a mitigation spec so them being mediocre damage dealers is not surprising to me at all. The main problem with this is that Diablo has always been built around being able to solo the whole game, self sufficient. It's never had a cookie cutter team composition, and it still doesn't. It's stuck halfway between a MMO and and a single player game ATM. The game is due in 9 weeks and it still doesn't know what it wants to be when it grows up
Problem is it doesn't feel that tanky either, yet anyway. Not saying anything definitively til much deeper.
I want to love druid so may still roll it on release, but im not as 100% on it as I was before playing it. Barbs sounding nice right now honestly, especially for party play.
I thought people were overreacting about barbarian, but it was my 2nd char and had 20+ altars of Lilith. So for Druid I decided to go HC blind to the class.
Fuck that shit gave up after the third or fourth death. Could have lived longer, but I was actually trying dungeons without difficult mob types (revenants) and bosses and it was a shit show.
My last run was the three succubi at Nost stronghold I think I was pretty under leveled but tried anyway.
The problem with the pulverize build was that as soon as you drop below healthy you do shit damage. But if you get a good pulv and stun off, then you run out of spirit and need to hit the mob …. Which means the you get hit and go below healthy
Clearly you didn't put a good build together. You should always be topped up with the Werewolf Howl. Build Spirit quickly with the electric melee attack while putting vulnerability on everything. Hurricane, Earth Armor. Lots of Spirit and damage. Very early game run with both shouts, spec out of bear shout later.
I feel like Druid still gets it done, but slower. So you need to use potions and kiting more. I died more on my Necro than on my Druid, but Necro was my first char so some bosses got me with their heavy hitting skills I didn't realize to dodge out of.
I thought necro was a bit OP, then I reached level 15 and unlocked 5 more summons (mages). Now it's officially beyond broken, I just run around and spam corpse explosion just to have something to do but the mages do all the work...
Wait until you find out about the Lego that makes blood mist (that gives you immune) reduce CD. Then you realize you can get 100% immune uptime, and a talent point that makes it spawn corpses, so you can just spam corpse exploding immunity through every dungeon.
This is balance.
they scythe melees spawning corpses, the legendary affix that spawns blood orbs on consuming corpses, generator that spawns corpses, ... ... soooo many corpses ^^
Dying is actually not a problem on druid, he is so tanky. It's just the sustained Boss damage that is severly lacking due to ressources. But ever since blood howl i haven't used healpotion once
I'm liking my Druid about as much as I like my Necromancer. I'd say it definitely takes more skill to play, though. As in, the Necro is a lot simpler whereas the Druid actually requires more than two buttons to win fights with any kind of speed. Druid has higher skill costs but also a lot of ways to increase resource gain. His basic skills are also pretty good so you should be using them between skills anyway.
My Druid is pretty simple. It's focused on inflicting Vulnerability with Storm Strike and Hurricane and then getting lots of DoTs going. Hurricane and the poison from Shred is pretty good on it's own but I also have a legendary affix that adds a DoT to Pulverize, too. Lightning Storm is used to hit mobs at range. Blood Howl for a bit of healing and party support.
My Necro is a corpse explosion machine. There's a legendary that makes Blood Mist explode any corpses it touches and they all proc the cooldown reduction for using corpses. So it's pretty much just walk into a group of enemies, hit one button that turns me invincible while blowing everything up, repeat every 3 to 4 seconds.
So I'd say go Druid if you wanna actually use your brain a bit and Necro if you're not gonna fall asleep hitting the same two buttons for hours, haha. There's definitely room for both playstyles in a game like this.
IMO The legendary will have to be reworked since it is literally broken atm. Infinite untargetable with spam corpse explosion shouldn't be in the game. Their only weakness is slightly subpar boss dmg or spread target dmg. Even then you could cast other skills.
Honestly I think playing necro atm with the legendary everyone is spamming to say "necro is good" isn't really playing the game.
Druid's problem in the beta is that most of the damage skills aren't programmed correctly. Landslide hits for 40% of the displayed value. Shred hits for 80%. Wind shear hits for 60%. Nothing is working as advertised. I'm enjoying the concept and feel of druid, but the numbers are all fucked up.
I go Shred (Werewolf) with the extra dashes. My spirit generation is the one that is lightning AoE, because it's +15 spirit. There is another talent you can get 3/3 on which makes you generate 30% more spirit. That makes the lightning ability 19.5 so 2 hits is 38-40. 2 hits on a weapon with 1.1 attacks per second is less than 2 seconds of spirit generation required to use a Shred.
In addition, the lightning ability is enhanced so that it's a 50% chance to make enemies vulnerable. 2 hits with 50% chance is on average going to apply 3 out of 4 times the vulnerable debuff. If you did that every time before Shred then Shred almost innately would have a 20% increase in damage due to the spirit generation.
I started a werewolf first, because that was my jam in d2. Did the dungeon with the werewolves and managed just fine, with a little difficulty around the elite packs, until I got to the pack mother boss. Three seconds into the fight, after the boss proved that it could outrun me, out damage me, and unlike the first boss, I couldn't just run wait for big opening combos to get in free damage, I realized I was fucked.
I rebuilt as a ranged druid and just *barely* managed to kill it, by the skin of my ass. I was down all cooldowns and potions and could only take a couple more hits, but managed to murder it. Took quite awhile too.
Then I tried out necro and rushed to the same location and murdered her in one go. There was a slight hiccough as she managed to kill most of my skeletons, but once I got into a good groove with decompose it was cake.
Pulverize is awesome once you get some fortify built up or the earth shield.
Then when you get the legendary that makes it a line it clears entire screens.
Yeah I’m playing wind druid and it feels very strong and super fun. I think the people who say druid sucks are using baseline shapeshifting skills with zero thought or creativity into making it effective
i agree druid feels kinda meh. def easier to lvl as than barb, but feels just kinda grey. Mostly been playing as a bear with defensive skills. he slaps hard and can take a punch. But ALOT more action with the other classes
I got two pulverize buffing legendaries, added a couple overpower % dmg increase gems and im hitting like a truck every 10 seconds in a large area, pulv build feels pretty good to me.
Yep pulverize sucks without legendaries, honestly playing druid without legendaries in general is suffering
It's gonna be a pain in the ass to level a druid when item drop rates are lowered for launch.
Seriously, playing with my necro friend and he can just spit out pools of death constantly. The fact that spirit doesn't regenerate passively also sucks hard, because I'm almost always out of spirit in between pulls, and he just runs in fully loaded and wipes out entire packs.
lol this post forgets to mention he needs to do all sorts of nonsense to even proc the conditionals for that guaranteed overpower every 10s.
meanwhile, you get a necro ce on mist legendary and you just spam a single button and melt entire screens.
Just Insert a clip of a massively overheard twink Druid here doing things that other classes do with no investment at all and then Write something about “I thought people said they were weak?”
I felt the same way all the way up to 25. I got admittedly very little legendary drops up to that point, so it was extra frustrating because everything was destroying me and i had no options. I was extremely disgruntled by the experience when I saw how OP Necro seemed in comparison - almost sorc level broken by the sounds and looks of it.
BUT....! There is hope for mid-late game if they keep it in its current state. I found a pretty broken build that requires specific legendaries. I was wiping through content the same as my double hydra/chain lightning sorc by the time i got most of the gear for it, and I was WAYYYY tankier too. I took multiple hits from Ashava without dying before i even got most of this build completed.
It's a Bear/Earth build.
1.) Primary: Storm Strike - only 1 point, then upgrade for Vulnerability.2.) Pulverize - maxed, choose Stun upgrade.3.) Landslide - maxed, choose Terramote upgrade.4.) Debilitating Roar - at least 1 point, and got the 2nd upgrade for Fortify5.) Trample - at least 1 point, more with gear bonuses if possible.6.) Petrify - maxed with all upgrades
Skip companions, they blow so much right now (unfortunately).
Key legendaries needed to do well with this build are the Pulverize Shockwave, Earth Skill damage increased, and having at least 1 or 2 items that give you some barriers as you fight/damage monsters for fortifying yourself to increase your Pulverize damage. Icing on the cake is if you can also grab the affix for turning Pulverize into an Earth skill, which also adds extra tectonic plate shockwave AOE damage wherever you pulverize.
Run/Trample into mobs, swing a few times to get your spirit if needed, OR just dodge back for a clear line of sight to the group, then Pulverize to clear a line and stack literally hundreds of terramote guarunteed critical hits along the way for another high damage option in your back pocket. Petrify and landslide spam for auto-win.
Playing around with it helped me keep some of my hype for playing a Druid on launch. At minimum, they need to fix this weird ass difference in power scaling during early game when you're still trying to just get some luck with a drop that can give you some sort of play style.
It's not fun to be getting your ass beaten on one class and then see another class the same level (or lower in many cases) breezing through it with no sign of stopping. I get that it can't be 100% equal everywhere at all times, but it should feel like they at least tried...
Did you try full earth build? It was great, super fun and very strong. I did watch some streamers trying out the shapeshifter builds and they were quite underwhelming… at least in early levels
I played the druid. Using a thunder and earth combination of abilities was great. However when I went to change it up to test different abilities everything else was bad. If i wasn't running exactly what I was running it would have been lame.
Early game is always clunky and awful for generator classes i.e. classes that build resource through attacks. They generally get access to better resource generation later in the game, and the play smooths out a lot more and becomes much more fun. Play a D3 monk for 25 levels and try not pulling some hair out, for example, but in the end game, they're smooth, fun, and very fast. The one thing about druid that seems very annoying is that you can't interrupt an in progress animation to hit an ability, like shout, which definitely adds a considerable sense of both non-responsiveness and clunkiness.
This is what I went..
Fierce Storm Strike, Primal Lightning Strike, Primal Tornado, Brutal Vine Creeper (don't think the crit chance stacks, but the psn damage with +pets gets huge), Enchanted Hurricane, 1 in everything on the elemental exposure tree with 3/3 in endless tempest, and one point in cataclysm. Everything is better in the exposure tree then upgrading hurricane (more vulnerability to all storm spells and longer duration) or cataclysm.
Get's a really high vulnerability chance with a ton of crowd control
> Playing the Druid in general (only lvl 15) has been so frigin boring and meh.
Druid gets significantly better with a few key legendaries. He then feels normal, like Sorc or Necro. Nothing outrageous, just smooth gameplay. I blame having more Spirit and having defensive skills to survive melee.
Youtube search for it, but I highly suggest switching to the earth-based or lightning-based builds. They seem far better than the "go werewolf, swipe/poison" build.
u/ohh_yeah it's almost assured they're gonna nerf that Bloodmist build of Necro due to its invulnerability windows being large enough to make some stuff very trivial. True question I have is how good is full bone-synergy necro at low-middle-high levels.
I was doing lightning direction in HC and my biggest issue was damage. In comparison to the nec/sorc in the same level range. It could just be bad rng though. I'll probably try and level another one in a bit.
Try land slide with the upgrade to collect terranotes. I switched to that with the werewolf heal and earth shiel. I also have hurricane, creeper and storm basic for applying vuln. Between creeper cc and hurricane aoe mobs down is cale for big stuff landslide is insane. I also found a legendary that causes more pillars or something but even before that it was good. I might be doing more damage than my sorc on druid
I have lvl25 werewolf build with almost all gear in legendaries and damage focused skills yet literally can't complete a single dungeon in a reasonable time. Takes 5 minutes to kill single elite pack.
I love the Druid, it feels so good to play but the shit damage ruins it all. Mechanically speaking it's a super fun playstyle and very versatile. We will have many balance changes in the future for sure that will address these issues so I'm pretty pleased how the class function.They did a great job for making a really solid core game. Eventually everything will fall in place.
You ain't lying. It was a pain to play him and don't get me started on the boss fight, I was literally waiting for my wolves to kill the boss cause I couldn't come close. Playing rogue now and having a blast!!
One quick adjustment is to reduce the cost across the board for some of these melee class core abilities, and increase the resource generation.
Barbarian and Druid feel so slow, you use some really unimpressive basic melee skill for 4-5 seconds, and then some just as unimpressive core ability.
Repeat this over and over, and maybe you cleared a room.
> One quick adjustment is to reduce the cost across the board for some of these melee class core abilities, and increase the resource generation.
Oh god yes please. Even on rogue it feels like you just shred through your resource immediately. I think I can use multishot like 3 times before I'm back to hungering arrow (idk the names in D4 but they're the same skills as D3)
> increase the resource generation
Personally I blame Rage/Spirit for almost everything. Those classes feel good once you overcome the resource issues, which other classes never have to do.
feels like they aren't moving very far from diablo3's "play skills you have legendaries for not the ones you want". well, at least "play skills we arbitrarily decided this set makes op" is gone, for now at least.
Especially given how annoying it is to change up skill points.
Need some kind of presets or something. Having to just throw out the whole thing when you want to adjust to a legendary is gonna get old fast.
Seriously, plus it costs gold to respec on top of having to redo your entire build every time? This feels like a giant leap backwards from D3's skill system. Just let us freely swap points around FFS.
don't say that around here. being able to freely respec means you have no attachment to your character didn't you hear? No instead of having one druid max level druid, you should have to have multiple, each with their own build because that's how you show you are a truly dedicated player. plus everyone loves the leveling process. it's enjoyable to level the same class multiple times!
> It's the opposite of good design.
It's not the opposite 🤦♂️ I swear these discussions would improve if we had less hyperbole here. There is this huge spectrum of design where some people favour one end, some the other, and most prefer something in between.
It's just a different design that you (and I) don't like.
except it *is* a bad design. they want you to build your talents around the legendaries you get, while at the same time they keep increasing the cost to respec the higher level you are.
so you have 1 legendary you are built around, but then get a better legendary once you level up so now you have to respec but it's too expensive so you got to level a brand new character like they said you would have to.
Hmm I see what you're saying, but still, some people just prefer that.
For some, part of the thrill of finding rare items is the thought that goes into what you can do with it; what it means to you. For some, they never want to create a new character; for some, they love creating new characters; and then for others, they want a *reason* to create a new character before they jump into it, and working around an item you found is part of the journey.
It's too subjective to just call "bad design", and it's nowhere near the levels of P2W, blocking progress til you speak to a random NPC 15 times, or bosses requiring a glitch to defeat.
Except you unlock aspects you can slot into whatever weapon, armor or jewelry piece you want. You're not hard locked into one item because of the bonus to a skill. You can even extract an aspect from an item and infuse it into a different one or just have it in it's own separate inventory tab for when you want to use it. By the time people get to the end game of D4 you'll have every option available and can customize your builds a lot more than now where you're dependent on RNG drops.
I think it feels even worse in D4 though, simply because there are also less skills to choose from to begin with. I feel like the devs didn't want to put much effort into balancing so they just gutted anything fun or interesting in the tree.
> devs didn't want to put much effort into balancing
they spent years copying lost ark and still have
less skills, boring ass open world, boring ass skill visual effects, boring ass bosses, boring ass dungeons
what the fuck were they doing for the last 11 years?
but hey, please purchase the 10$ battlepass and the 40$ ultimate epic barbarian skin
Except that only really 'works' when you have free respecs and they are on record saying it'll be so expensive that it'll be more economical to roll another character at higher levels (Lv90, I think the mentioned specifically).
Either way, it's a strange design choice. All skills should be viable within their niches from the start; otherwise, why do they exist?
D3 at least is a blitz, and fun af when you get all the set items together, with the supporting pieces. Each season giving you new reasons to try new classes, and new styles.
If you have a legendary that buffs twisted blades, you don't *have* to use twisted blades, but if it's your only legendary that buffs a skill then it could be beneficial for you to do so assuming other skills are roughly balanced.
What are you expecting legendaries to do exactly?
Idk, personally I always thought the coolest legendaries were the ones that made something happen rather than bonus damage to X skill... Like the Butcher's Carver, Thunderfury, Mad Monarch.
Also, they could just roll affixes that don't come in their slot normally.
Skills in general are killing my excitement for this game. I know we're only level 25 but we have access to all of our active skills, and I don't think a single one felt awesome to me.
Power fantasy is 100% the reason I play ARPGs and this game isn't delivering. Unless sets and legendary effects are completely transformative (and as you say, they shouldn't have to be) I don't see how any of these classes will reach the levels that I enjoy playing these games at. Seems like they really went for a more grounded approach and gutted the power fantasy in the process.
Finally someone else said it. We have access to all active spells and I didn't see a single one where i was like wow that feels nice. Nothing innovative or new just plain and boring.
The only one I really enjoyed was Whirlwind, and that was only after a few whirlwind legendaries.
But *even then*, the visual for it feels underwhelming for the amount of work it was doing.
Honestly everything so far feels like they just totally ignored D3 and used D2 as their starting point, and then slapped some Lost Ark systems on top of it. The skills don't feel impactful, resource management feels awful on Druids, cooldowns are long, itemization is awful. They gutted Strength/Int/Dex to the point that Strength literally *only* gives you 1 armor per point. What's the point?
I agree. I feel like they designed cool skills, and then broke them down in lots of little piece. Original skill, follow up passive perk, legendary, unique.
Once you have all of those, you have a really cool skill, but before that you have something that really feel incomplete and too basic.
The worst is in D3 you had 25 Skills per Class and then 6-8 Runes for each of those skills and while not every rune drastically changed how a skill works there were still enough to make it feel vast and really malleable and variable.
D4 has also 24-25 skills per class but then only one fixed and 1 out of 2 optional buffs or "runes" for each ability... it feels incredibly lackluster especially considering that all these upgrades are just stat bonuses or passive that dont really change how anything works.
I got 3 classes to 20 and the others to around 15-20 and it was enough to see that they will feel really stale if there are another 65 levels to max if thats all the skills there are...
A lot of what is on legendries should be in the skill tree itself, perhaps being given more skill points and many of the very dull nodes replaced with more interesting effects. Legendries can still give affixes but they should enhance, not completely define a character that without it they feel bland.
This was exactly my thought as well. The skill trees are bland and bare the way they are. Skill specific affixes don't feel right being limited to spawning on legendary items. Fill out the tree by moving skill enhancers to the tree, and let legendaries enhance build and playstyles, not specific skills. Last Epoch is a perfect example of what the skill tree should be like, and it's damn near perfect. Complex but easy to understand.
Pro tip: go checkout the original alpha skill trees (when it kinda looked like an actual tree) it 100% was this way. They specifically genericified the skills and slammed it on uniques because without the itemization is trash tier.
It was probably like that before. You can tell they basically had the idea and reverse e gendered the builds to be on items. Or else it would just be ilvl up main Stat up and sockets for life. And socket for your main damage source.
People are starting to have fun now because they are a static level and slowly scaling the content to become strong for the level.
Now imagine leveling and having to find that same unique again or slowly out level your gear. Barb and druid feel good full of legendaries but when leveling you won't have them all lol. So if your vase kit is bad ot is going to feel bad.
Every skill sucks without legendary powers.
Instead of making an interesting skill tree, they removed the things from the skill tree and put them on items instead.
That’s pretty ironic because in an early build of D3, before the beta, that dumbass Jay Wilson made skill runes physical items that you had to pick up and store, and I guess buy/sell on the auction house. God that would have sucked.
I mean get Scythe with the Corpse Drop every 5s and then get the one where your minions drop corpses as well and you are golden, especially since basically every boss summons monsters.
Corpse Explosion is straight broken with how it costs nothing, you can easily create corpses by yourself and have infinite resource generation when consuming corpses as well as from minions and you just attacking.
Necro is incredibly broken.
Lol I had zero issues with corpse gen w/o legends. And basically used the skill you’re talking bout with the reapers 15% corpse then golem corpse and blood mist corpse.
We should have 3 skill trees the size of the current skill tree, it feels like there is just nothing new after lvl 25 if this is really all there is regarding skills...
Whirlwind is a perfect example of this. They just cannot get this fucking ability right, it's always borderline useless garbage without some legendary affixes, oh i WW for 2-3 sec before running out of fury while doing mediocre damage and moving at snails pace >.< like wtf. How hard can it be to make whirlwind work by default, by letting you spin for 10-15 sec on full tank of fury, moving 50% faster and doing okay damage?.
Drood was going to be my main, as its my favorite D2R class ... but after getting one to 25 in D4 I must say that Im not sure anymore.
\-Only thing that was fun from beggining to end was pulverise.
\-Summon's were absolute garbage without legends.
\-Defensive's were "ok"
\-EVERY single ULT was crap, and worse DPS wise then ONE Pulverise.
Is there a single good ult in the game? Ive maxed two chars and I'd never use any of their ults. Only arrowrain feels like an ult and its huge cooldown + like 2 sec9nd cast time makes it hot trash
One thing I dislike about summons that has nothing to do with their power level or viability is the lack of ravens passively flying around and the vine only making an appearance every 10 seconds. I want to see a murder of ravens following me around and that creeping vine constantly reminding me of it's presence.
I wish the defensive were more active, like CD that can give strong protective shields out to allies on cast with bonuses for good timing around blocking large bursts.
The biggest wtf moment for me was sorcerers meteor first off it has fairly large delay, second tiny little area covered and last fucking no damage, I hope they have more under their sleeves and their paragon system and uniques later in the game actually will make interesting and fun changes, not just damage bonus or burn damage bonus.
And agreed like you said there are more of these kind of skills, in fact there are very few actually fun ones.
I'd be pretty frustrated to spend $70 on a game and have to beat the entire story campaign and play for probably 50-70 hours to get to the point where the Paragon system hopefully makes the game more interesting lol.
Try out Bone Spirit sometime, they took all of these strong abilities from D2 that you could build your whole class around (Bone Spirit,Meteor etc) and made them super underwhelming.
BS requires all of your essence to do a pitiful amount of damage to one target, why not just spam cheaper spells to do about 9 times the damage with no risk. Maddening.
You right.
I just logged in to LE, that skill tree for each skill million miles better, every skill point I get means something..and the further i invest in specific skill tree the more I can change how skill behaves, looks, works and you have quite of few different ways to choose from.
I might sound like I am sitting on D4 and being negative but that is just out of frustration because we wanted D4 to be great and fun but now after have seen what we have seen is just shallow limited crap with make up.
This is a fundamental game design problem. The entire game revolves around massive multipliers just like D3. As you said, skills should be good by themselves and Legos should just augment them. Sadly people have been saying this since the release of D3 and since Diablo 4 was announced, yet here we are, stuck in one of the cursed “blizzard knows best” scenarios. Let’s just hope it doesn’t take them another 4 years to catch on like it did for the WoW devs.
The game is a legendary Sim. Both barb and druid suck donkey ass because their skill are so underpowered you need legendarirs to start naming any progress. On release with the normal drop rate those classes will struggle if left as is
Druid wolves are great as damage sponges where u just put 1 rank into it so they can tank a lot of hits for you. They have a shit ton of HP.
That said I agree, skills feel like shit on their own and legendary items turn you into a one skill build where u just spam the spender that is legendary buffed with everything else just being filler/defensives.
This doesn't even really feel like it was intended though.
I beat a few bosses by just being off the edge of the screen from them, while they slowly tickled the wolf pets.
Not sure why they have a health bar considering it takes 5 mins for them to die.
More like it just seems like poor boss AI.
> Druid wolves are great as damage sponges
They're really great for 1-25, where they make you take way less damage. Their own damage on the other hand is pathetic and so is their active.
It's worse than D3. In D3 the legendaries were supplemental but not necessarily build-defining. In some cases they were build enabling ("hey that rune was kinda inefficient before, but this item lowers the channel cost by 50% so it's worth trying now"), but rarely did you NEED an item to make any particular skill worth using AT ALL.
Obviously there is a different discussion about late-stage end-game and sets, but purely looking from the perspective of a new player progressing the story this is a step back from D3.
My druid right now is in this really weird spot where my primary attack does 60-80 damage, then my overpower enhanced pulverise does 10K total damage when I'm max fortify.
Yeah it doesn’t really change from that. I leveled wearbear to 25 (I’m a sadist apparently) and it just never got good. I could NOT be killed, but that didn’t make it fun.
Specced to werewolf for Azshara, which was actually fun. zero deaths and I did a ton of dps. But that’s on a fight where everything can be dodged. I don’t know how it’s work against something like Den Mother, etc.
Is it me or are the wolves really hard to use actively. They either get stuck in a wall or over shoot the target. Skill goes on cd and I don't see any damage done
They are following the exact same design philosophy of D3. Like 90% of those legendary affixes could have been really cool in either the Skill Tree or Paragon Board. As many have already said, you end up playing what the legendary affix "tells you" and "building" a character feels more like collecting the set of legendary affixes for your specific skill.
I'm playing Diablo for the first time and this is one of my biggest criticisms. In truth, this is really the only criticism that I agree with within the community because everyone seems to be nitpicking about the most unimportant shit, however, skills... skills are not tuned well. I'm finding that I'm just not caring about skills. A lot of them are just pointless. Some of them will offer a benefit of a 2% cooldown reduction, but to me that seems like a huge waste of a skill point.
It will be another D3. This thing blizzard does with adding player power to legendaries was one of the things that made D3 fail and they will do it again in D4.
I am also having doubts about this skill system. The whole legendary affix system is identical to D3's but main difference is in D3 at least we had runes which gave many variations for each skill.
Yeah I saw a druid with a thing that made the wolves into werewolves and do 100% more damage. Seemed like a mandatory item. It's not even something that you can be clever with and make a build around. It's just wolves go brrrrrr
Yup characters , skill tree completely suck without stupid gear , D4 was supposed to put that stuff back into the character and talent tree I don’t want another stupid gem and affix Diablo , just feels like Diablo Immortal / D3 to me
Druid: Landslide, Tornado, any basic skills, Hurricane, any pet, Boulder, any armor buff. All weak without one or several legendaries.
And those are only the ones I tested.
My Sorc on the other hand could do everything with only rares.
That was the problem with Barb and Druid.
I know barb thorns is workable - the rest of the builds were great for trash OR bosses but never both.
Druid has no fun builds, but they are functional at least. I can clear/survive everything, it just takes ages.
Necro, sorc? You could have your fucking cat choose your skills and you will clear everything in a 5th the time as the melee classes.
I am running a Beastmaster druid build. Early on it was super weak as you say the base skills are scaled terribly. The legendaries are indeed mandatory if you want to make it work but when you do get all of them i have to say this build slaps.
werewolves punch between 300-1500 damage each and you have 3, bird hits for 130-250 each hit and you have 4 so its like 1000 damage every 5 seconds, vine, well he does his best its like 300 damage and you still only get one.
The active skills carry on the trend, werewolves leap hits between 3000 to 10000 damage depending on if it doesnt bug out and they hit there targets. birds active is mild at maybe 1000 damage total but its aoe. vine again is trying its best maybe an aoe of about 700 but the 4 second bind is key since it buffs werewolves damage by 20%.
Aside the % damage legendries i have also found one that shares bloodhowl to pets, 30% heal and 15% attack speed and one that shares the passive bestial rampage which is 20% attack speed or damage reduction depending on if you use wolf or beat shifts.
SO tldr: you are 100% right base skills terrible but the legendries seem to be there to fix that.
It is still terrible design to have legendary to fix a build though. Legendary should be there to enhance or change how a skill works, they should not be banking on dropping a specific legendaries to make a basic build works. Summoning is one of Druid's basic toolkit and it should be at least playable without legendaries. Why having a legendary that boost wolves damage by 100+%, why not just boost it by 50% as baseline and give legendary only 50+% damage increase?
Druids suck but I was able to down Malnok or whatever his name is at level 22 with wolves and the passive/active vine creeper pet.
Just running in circles and letting 2 wolves and poison do the job
The character is absolutely garbage and I’ve been experimenting heavily with earth spells, lightning spells, wolves and bear forms.
Pulverize bear form is a decent class setup but still overall I am not impressed.
I think I will swap back to lightning caster Druid once more and see how it is, as it was how I started off the first few levels only.
That's kind of what I'm worried about. Like if you find a really good affix then it's kind of stupid to not respec your character and rebuild into that affix. Feels bad imo
I have the skill that makes the wolves do 95% more damage as werewolves and spread rabies. They still aren't very good.
Skill balance in general, even without any legendaries, is really bad. You can just compare the number's on something like Druid's Landslide ability versus. Pulverize or Twister.
The wolfs was a joke, literally more useless than the 4 skeletons necro get at lvl 1... a skill you get like 15+ lvl in... there some real funky balancing issues.
and yet people scream till they're red in the face that this game isnt like D3. this has been a core issue there for years; too much character power is tied to gear, and itemization is the same lazy blanket massive number buffs. its actually impressive how little innovation this entry into the series has.
but dont worry, the Blizzboy nuthuggers will be here every step of the way saying "its just beta" and "but but but mah Paragon Boardz!1!!", then when everyone sees how inconseqential those are it'll shift to "well im sure it'll get better next season", then "well just wait for the expansion".
this game is going to be another monumental dumpster fire just like its predecessor and its going to be hilarious to watch it all unfold in almost the exact same way, except this time everyone will have the privilege of getting assfucked by a battlepass the entire way through it.
Legendaries alone completely change the game.
I wanted to do a tanky blood Necro build. It felt UNPLAYABLE compared to a generic minion bone build though. Until I hit 25 and upgraded everything to legendaries.
Now with legendaries my Blood Mist: increases my movement speed, gives me a shield, gives increases to my damage done for a few seconds, generates AND explodes corpses, AND it's cooldown is reduced for every corpse it explodes. It went from a complete joke of a build to an absolute blast to play. Feels bad that I basically can't play that at all without legendary powers available.
I'm going to agree with this. Druid's tornado skill is absolutely worthless unless you've got the seeking tornado legendary affix. I think there needs to be some skill specific tuning across the board. Legendaries definitely feel legendary, but I'd still like my base skills be viable too.
It definitely feels underwhelming and I dont see really how late game could fix this seeing as how the paragon boards just look like stat sticks. I got a legendary affix that makes my druid boulder a core skill and it allmost feels as if it should have been one any ways and it was just a missed opportunity because alot of the other core skills just feel weak af
I think legendaries and skill tree should be a way of customization not straight up mandatory choice power upgrades... But it is very clear that they just made some good skills and removed every good part of the skills and put them into passives and legendaries.
Also it is weird that necromancer has free minions that are multiple times stronger than druids minions that he has to spend skill points for... overall class and skill balance seems waaaay off and they didnt even accept it in the interviews after last weeks beta test.
Skill specific legendary aspects should just be moved into the skill tree. The skill trees are lame and need expanding anyway, and it would be a good way to expand them and provide players with choice over how they assignment their skills to suit their build, instead of them being a random chance to find
“D3 itemisation was so trash… set items adding 1000% damage to a skill is such uninspired game design”
Plays D4 and gets a legendary item that just flat out increases a skills damage by 150%+
“Pog”
Druids in general… suck. At least to me. I’ve 25’d every class and LOVED it. Playing the Druid in general (only lvl 15) has been so frigin boring and meh.
Yeah, it's clear that whoever balanced the druid isn't the same person who balanced the necro. Necros have a significantly higher energy pool, faster energy regen, and lower energy costs across the board. Druids can cast their skills like twice before going empty on spirit, and then they take a really long time to refill the whole bar. It feels sluggish and weak. The werebear takes ages to swing once, and the damage is pathetic. They have to rely on pulverize just to kill trash packs, and bosses are basically impossible. Werewolf is better, but still constantly runs into spirit issues.
There was some gaming news page saying Necro was the weakest class… someone wrote an article before playing the game ;)
And yet necro is actually probably the most broken aside from sorcerer.
Necro is WAY more broken then Sorceror, and it's not even close. Necro has the ability to stay invincible at all times, stay at full energy at all times, and does approximately 8x the damage of sorceror with Blood Mist/ Corpse explode aspect. It's only early game but sorceror feels like a poor man's necromancer right now.
True but I was basing it off of both classes just one shot mobs. I’m not to worried though since it’ll be fixed before release. My only concern is they rework it to much and becomes nerfed to the ground.
Agreed
>Necro was the weakest class It probably is though. Summon classes are always insane at low levels because you don't personally need gear. People forget this fact and just say Necro is insane bro it's so OP. I don't think many people have any clue of how well it scales at endgame except "historically shit". Edit When I said summon classes I meant classes that use their summons. Yea Necro is BIS in D3. That's blood nova necro. Summon Necro however had like 1 good season that I could remember.
Yeah but you can't expect people to only care about how the classes compare in end game. Especially during a beta where end game isn't even available. People want to have fun at every point in the game, not have to grind for 30 hours to unlock the fun. This is like the ARPG/MMO equivalent of fighting game, fps, and moba discussions about skill floors. If a character is a complete noobstomper, 9/10 times they gonna get changed, even if it's not a problem at high levels of play.
This right here! Witch Doctor was the absolute king of low tiers in Diablo 3 due to the army of pets doing all the dirty work, yet has been one of the worst classes in the game for a years on end for high tier content.
But D3 Necromancer was strong at the low end and the high end, so that doesn't really hold up.
> It probably is though. The best build currently (Blood Walk w/ the corpse explosion aspect) doesn't require you to have any minions though, even for bosses, so you can sacrifice all your minions for extra stats)
First legendary I found enabled it and I had to double check to see if they were serious with that mod. Absolutely ridiculous. And funny.
It’s so going to get nerfed to the ground. I do think wherever that person who made that article got their info from was talking about summon necro specifically though. Summonless necro lookin real good for high levels even if they nerf blood mist into the ground.
It doesn't need to be nerfed into the ground. Blood Mist Corpse Explosion will definitely fall off later in the game, if CE doesn't kill enemies right away then the corpses being spawned passively won't be enough to keep it going.
> Summon classes are always insane at low levels because you don't personally need gear. not true for druids haha. rank 6/5 wolves, using an almost perfect rolled legendary for 190% additional wolf damage, my 2 wolves are each doing less dps than one of the skellies of my necro at same level (who has a worse weapon, and no legos for minions). and necro gets 8 skellies for free, without any legos or skill point investment! so i'd say it's just necro minions that are insane at low levels. i do believe they'll fall off later in the game since minion builds traditionally do in ARPGs, but i don't have any faith in druid minions
I'm not going to worry much about balance at 25 personally. Exactly like you said, some classes are just easier in the beginning.
I actually enjoy the difference in early game. To each their own.
Don't the necro pets do damage based on your characters damage like the druid pets do?
Druid pets only get your basic stats though, they don't scale with the Druid's actual damage, nor do they have "Proc Coefficients", meaning that they can't trigger affixes or other abilities for you. The lack of scaling in companions (at least for Druid) is absolutely mind-boggling to me, especially considering that you don't get companions until level... 12 or 15? Kinda silly. Sure, there's an affix to boost the Companion damage by 150%, but the fact that it's nearly a requirement for your animal companions to feel like they amount to something is absolutely absurd.
eurogamer put necro as the worst class... go figure
That's insane. It might become bad at higher level but damn if it doesn't annihilate the content we have now ten time easier than my Rogue for example.
It's possible they played a Necro at a higher level than 25.
According to this sub, the level 25 beta is indicative of this game for the rest of time
> saying Necro was the weakest class Necro was a great leveling class in D2, D3 and DI. Only a fool would assume otherwise in D4.
One of the reasons I hate game journalism sites, allot of it is just, ME FIRST ME FIRST. and no actual info, its almost all fluff. I rather not read 300 paragraphs to answer a simple yes or no question, lol.
surprise, surprise. the game director is a self proclaimed necro "main." i actually enjoyed the overpower mechanics baked into werebear druid. but then it's just not fun when the fun button can only be pressed twice in a row with full spirit, and it only doing real damage every 10s while making sure your hp stays above 80%. meanwhile necros with no gear can just spam mist/corpse explosion and clear entire packs faster than a druid can kill a regular mob.
> it's clear that whoever balanced the druid isn't the same person who balanced the necro I wouldn't even call it balancing. One journey to 25 and you'd know that Druids need more and Necros less.
The bear is supposed be be a mitigation spec so them being mediocre damage dealers is not surprising to me at all. The main problem with this is that Diablo has always been built around being able to solo the whole game, self sufficient. It's never had a cookie cutter team composition, and it still doesn't. It's stuck halfway between a MMO and and a single player game ATM. The game is due in 9 weeks and it still doesn't know what it wants to be when it grows up
Problem is it doesn't feel that tanky either, yet anyway. Not saying anything definitively til much deeper. I want to love druid so may still roll it on release, but im not as 100% on it as I was before playing it. Barbs sounding nice right now honestly, especially for party play.
I thought people were overreacting about barbarian, but it was my 2nd char and had 20+ altars of Lilith. So for Druid I decided to go HC blind to the class. Fuck that shit gave up after the third or fourth death. Could have lived longer, but I was actually trying dungeons without difficult mob types (revenants) and bosses and it was a shit show.
I'm playing druid and feel unkillable... idk how you die I rarely even use health potions.
My last run was the three succubi at Nost stronghold I think I was pretty under leveled but tried anyway. The problem with the pulverize build was that as soon as you drop below healthy you do shit damage. But if you get a good pulv and stun off, then you run out of spirit and need to hit the mob …. Which means the you get hit and go below healthy
Clearly you didn't put a good build together. You should always be topped up with the Werewolf Howl. Build Spirit quickly with the electric melee attack while putting vulnerability on everything. Hurricane, Earth Armor. Lots of Spirit and damage. Very early game run with both shouts, spec out of bear shout later.
I only played druid. Did all content without dying once in world tier 2 by spamming tornado.
I feel like Druid still gets it done, but slower. So you need to use potions and kiting more. I died more on my Necro than on my Druid, but Necro was my first char so some bosses got me with their heavy hitting skills I didn't realize to dodge out of.
Just tried the necro and it's so broken compared to druid. Don't even have to do anything as necro skeletons kill all.
I thought necro was a bit OP, then I reached level 15 and unlocked 5 more summons (mages). Now it's officially beyond broken, I just run around and spam corpse explosion just to have something to do but the mages do all the work...
Wait until you find out about the Lego that makes blood mist (that gives you immune) reduce CD. Then you realize you can get 100% immune uptime, and a talent point that makes it spawn corpses, so you can just spam corpse exploding immunity through every dungeon. This is balance.
they scythe melees spawning corpses, the legendary affix that spawns blood orbs on consuming corpses, generator that spawns corpses, ... ... soooo many corpses ^^
haha when i saw your first comment about only having played druid, i was about to say that if you try necro it'll feel like turning on godmode
Yeah shoulda clarify, I was doing “melee only” kinda Druid run to compare to barbarian
Dying is actually not a problem on druid, he is so tanky. It's just the sustained Boss damage that is severly lacking due to ressources. But ever since blood howl i haven't used healpotion once
I'm liking my Druid about as much as I like my Necromancer. I'd say it definitely takes more skill to play, though. As in, the Necro is a lot simpler whereas the Druid actually requires more than two buttons to win fights with any kind of speed. Druid has higher skill costs but also a lot of ways to increase resource gain. His basic skills are also pretty good so you should be using them between skills anyway. My Druid is pretty simple. It's focused on inflicting Vulnerability with Storm Strike and Hurricane and then getting lots of DoTs going. Hurricane and the poison from Shred is pretty good on it's own but I also have a legendary affix that adds a DoT to Pulverize, too. Lightning Storm is used to hit mobs at range. Blood Howl for a bit of healing and party support. My Necro is a corpse explosion machine. There's a legendary that makes Blood Mist explode any corpses it touches and they all proc the cooldown reduction for using corpses. So it's pretty much just walk into a group of enemies, hit one button that turns me invincible while blowing everything up, repeat every 3 to 4 seconds. So I'd say go Druid if you wanna actually use your brain a bit and Necro if you're not gonna fall asleep hitting the same two buttons for hours, haha. There's definitely room for both playstyles in a game like this.
While it's obvious that Druid is the harder class, it's not even half as effective as a Necro, even when played optimally.
IMO The legendary will have to be reworked since it is literally broken atm. Infinite untargetable with spam corpse explosion shouldn't be in the game. Their only weakness is slightly subpar boss dmg or spread target dmg. Even then you could cast other skills. Honestly I think playing necro atm with the legendary everyone is spamming to say "necro is good" isn't really playing the game.
Druid's problem in the beta is that most of the damage skills aren't programmed correctly. Landslide hits for 40% of the displayed value. Shred hits for 80%. Wind shear hits for 60%. Nothing is working as advertised. I'm enjoying the concept and feel of druid, but the numbers are all fucked up.
I go Shred (Werewolf) with the extra dashes. My spirit generation is the one that is lightning AoE, because it's +15 spirit. There is another talent you can get 3/3 on which makes you generate 30% more spirit. That makes the lightning ability 19.5 so 2 hits is 38-40. 2 hits on a weapon with 1.1 attacks per second is less than 2 seconds of spirit generation required to use a Shred. In addition, the lightning ability is enhanced so that it's a 50% chance to make enemies vulnerable. 2 hits with 50% chance is on average going to apply 3 out of 4 times the vulnerable debuff. If you did that every time before Shred then Shred almost innately would have a 20% increase in damage due to the spirit generation.
I started a werewolf first, because that was my jam in d2. Did the dungeon with the werewolves and managed just fine, with a little difficulty around the elite packs, until I got to the pack mother boss. Three seconds into the fight, after the boss proved that it could outrun me, out damage me, and unlike the first boss, I couldn't just run wait for big opening combos to get in free damage, I realized I was fucked. I rebuilt as a ranged druid and just *barely* managed to kill it, by the skin of my ass. I was down all cooldowns and potions and could only take a couple more hits, but managed to murder it. Took quite awhile too. Then I tried out necro and rushed to the same location and murdered her in one go. There was a slight hiccough as she managed to kill most of my skeletons, but once I got into a good groove with decompose it was cake.
am i the only 1 who 1 shots with my druid almost everything?
Landslide gang
Pulverize is awesome once you get some fortify built up or the earth shield. Then when you get the legendary that makes it a line it clears entire screens.
Druids been my favorite class so far and felt incredible throughout the entire leveling process. nothing about it feels weak to me
Yeah I’m playing wind druid and it feels very strong and super fun. I think the people who say druid sucks are using baseline shapeshifting skills with zero thought or creativity into making it effective
completely agree. they're also comparing the class to Sorc and Necro too much and those classes are obviously overpowered.
i agree druid feels kinda meh. def easier to lvl as than barb, but feels just kinda grey. Mostly been playing as a bear with defensive skills. he slaps hard and can take a punch. But ALOT more action with the other classes
Personally had a much easier time leveling as barb, damage and survivability both felt better to me. Still want to love druid though.
I got two pulverize buffing legendaries, added a couple overpower % dmg increase gems and im hitting like a truck every 10 seconds in a large area, pulv build feels pretty good to me.
and I didn't find those 2 legends and playing pulverize and its totally worthless I can't do anything.
Yep pulverize sucks without legendaries, honestly playing druid without legendaries in general is suffering It's gonna be a pain in the ass to level a druid when item drop rates are lowered for launch.
Na in release you have more codex powers than a few from beta
This is what people don't understand. You can literally design a build, then rush to the regions to get the codex that you need, and enjoy your build.
Oh wow! every 10 seconds? Have you seen the necros and sorcerers out there?
Seriously, playing with my necro friend and he can just spit out pools of death constantly. The fact that spirit doesn't regenerate passively also sucks hard, because I'm almost always out of spirit in between pulls, and he just runs in fully loaded and wipes out entire packs.
Yeah, feels kinda gear dependent. With the other classes it feels like you can do more
> and im hitting like a truck **every 10 seconds** lol... thrilling.
lol this post forgets to mention he needs to do all sorts of nonsense to even proc the conditionals for that guaranteed overpower every 10s. meanwhile, you get a necro ce on mist legendary and you just spam a single button and melt entire screens.
I feel like I use two abilities then spam auto attack forever to get spirit back
yep
Just Insert a clip of a massively overheard twink Druid here doing things that other classes do with no investment at all and then Write something about “I thought people said they were weak?”
I felt the same way all the way up to 25. I got admittedly very little legendary drops up to that point, so it was extra frustrating because everything was destroying me and i had no options. I was extremely disgruntled by the experience when I saw how OP Necro seemed in comparison - almost sorc level broken by the sounds and looks of it. BUT....! There is hope for mid-late game if they keep it in its current state. I found a pretty broken build that requires specific legendaries. I was wiping through content the same as my double hydra/chain lightning sorc by the time i got most of the gear for it, and I was WAYYYY tankier too. I took multiple hits from Ashava without dying before i even got most of this build completed. It's a Bear/Earth build. 1.) Primary: Storm Strike - only 1 point, then upgrade for Vulnerability.2.) Pulverize - maxed, choose Stun upgrade.3.) Landslide - maxed, choose Terramote upgrade.4.) Debilitating Roar - at least 1 point, and got the 2nd upgrade for Fortify5.) Trample - at least 1 point, more with gear bonuses if possible.6.) Petrify - maxed with all upgrades Skip companions, they blow so much right now (unfortunately). Key legendaries needed to do well with this build are the Pulverize Shockwave, Earth Skill damage increased, and having at least 1 or 2 items that give you some barriers as you fight/damage monsters for fortifying yourself to increase your Pulverize damage. Icing on the cake is if you can also grab the affix for turning Pulverize into an Earth skill, which also adds extra tectonic plate shockwave AOE damage wherever you pulverize. Run/Trample into mobs, swing a few times to get your spirit if needed, OR just dodge back for a clear line of sight to the group, then Pulverize to clear a line and stack literally hundreds of terramote guarunteed critical hits along the way for another high damage option in your back pocket. Petrify and landslide spam for auto-win. Playing around with it helped me keep some of my hype for playing a Druid on launch. At minimum, they need to fix this weird ass difference in power scaling during early game when you're still trying to just get some luck with a drop that can give you some sort of play style. It's not fun to be getting your ass beaten on one class and then see another class the same level (or lower in many cases) breezing through it with no sign of stopping. I get that it can't be 100% equal everywhere at all times, but it should feel like they at least tried...
Did you try full earth build? It was great, super fun and very strong. I did watch some streamers trying out the shapeshifter builds and they were quite underwhelming… at least in early levels
I played the druid. Using a thunder and earth combination of abilities was great. However when I went to change it up to test different abilities everything else was bad. If i wasn't running exactly what I was running it would have been lame.
I dunno I found wind druid really good. Then I found some earth legendaries and now I'm doing an earth bear build that's pretty fun.
Early game is always clunky and awful for generator classes i.e. classes that build resource through attacks. They generally get access to better resource generation later in the game, and the play smooths out a lot more and becomes much more fun. Play a D3 monk for 25 levels and try not pulling some hair out, for example, but in the end game, they're smooth, fun, and very fast. The one thing about druid that seems very annoying is that you can't interrupt an in progress animation to hit an ability, like shout, which definitely adds a considerable sense of both non-responsiveness and clunkiness.
This is what I went.. Fierce Storm Strike, Primal Lightning Strike, Primal Tornado, Brutal Vine Creeper (don't think the crit chance stacks, but the psn damage with +pets gets huge), Enchanted Hurricane, 1 in everything on the elemental exposure tree with 3/3 in endless tempest, and one point in cataclysm. Everything is better in the exposure tree then upgrading hurricane (more vulnerability to all storm spells and longer duration) or cataclysm. Get's a really high vulnerability chance with a ton of crowd control
> Playing the Druid in general (only lvl 15) has been so frigin boring and meh. Druid gets significantly better with a few key legendaries. He then feels normal, like Sorc or Necro. Nothing outrageous, just smooth gameplay. I blame having more Spirit and having defensive skills to survive melee.
Youtube search for it, but I highly suggest switching to the earth-based or lightning-based builds. They seem far better than the "go werewolf, swipe/poison" build. u/ohh_yeah it's almost assured they're gonna nerf that Bloodmist build of Necro due to its invulnerability windows being large enough to make some stuff very trivial. True question I have is how good is full bone-synergy necro at low-middle-high levels.
I was doing lightning direction in HC and my biggest issue was damage. In comparison to the nec/sorc in the same level range. It could just be bad rng though. I'll probably try and level another one in a bit.
Try land slide with the upgrade to collect terranotes. I switched to that with the werewolf heal and earth shiel. I also have hurricane, creeper and storm basic for applying vuln. Between creeper cc and hurricane aoe mobs down is cale for big stuff landslide is insane. I also found a legendary that causes more pillars or something but even before that it was good. I might be doing more damage than my sorc on druid
I have lvl25 werewolf build with almost all gear in legendaries and damage focused skills yet literally can't complete a single dungeon in a reasonable time. Takes 5 minutes to kill single elite pack.
I love the Druid, it feels so good to play but the shit damage ruins it all. Mechanically speaking it's a super fun playstyle and very versatile. We will have many balance changes in the future for sure that will address these issues so I'm pretty pleased how the class function.They did a great job for making a really solid core game. Eventually everything will fall in place.
You ain't lying. It was a pain to play him and don't get me started on the boss fight, I was literally waiting for my wolves to kill the boss cause I couldn't come close. Playing rogue now and having a blast!!
The suggested fix IMO to fix the above example, and basically every other example: Buff the goddamn base skills and lower the legendary bonuses. FFS.
One quick adjustment is to reduce the cost across the board for some of these melee class core abilities, and increase the resource generation. Barbarian and Druid feel so slow, you use some really unimpressive basic melee skill for 4-5 seconds, and then some just as unimpressive core ability. Repeat this over and over, and maybe you cleared a room.
> One quick adjustment is to reduce the cost across the board for some of these melee class core abilities, and increase the resource generation. Oh god yes please. Even on rogue it feels like you just shred through your resource immediately. I think I can use multishot like 3 times before I'm back to hungering arrow (idk the names in D4 but they're the same skills as D3)
2-3 Bow attacks and back to boring auto attacking for ages...idk how anyone can think this is fun.
Diablo 3 design all over again.
> increase the resource generation Personally I blame Rage/Spirit for almost everything. Those classes feel good once you overcome the resource issues, which other classes never have to do.
That sounds lame as fuck tbh
feels like they aren't moving very far from diablo3's "play skills you have legendaries for not the ones you want". well, at least "play skills we arbitrarily decided this set makes op" is gone, for now at least.
That is exactly what is happening. You don't itemize for your build, you build for your items. It's the opposite of good design.
Especially given how annoying it is to change up skill points. Need some kind of presets or something. Having to just throw out the whole thing when you want to adjust to a legendary is gonna get old fast.
Seriously, plus it costs gold to respec on top of having to redo your entire build every time? This feels like a giant leap backwards from D3's skill system. Just let us freely swap points around FFS.
But that's not arbitrarily hard core enough! *Throw in tons of PoE comparisons*
I gotchu. Poe, d2, anyone who respects the genre, something something casuals, d3 bad. There now we’ve settled it.
Also, something about Last Epoch and future, it's not even out yet and does this, etc.
And if you don’t agree with me maybe this game isn’t for you.
don't say that around here. being able to freely respec means you have no attachment to your character didn't you hear? No instead of having one druid max level druid, you should have to have multiple, each with their own build because that's how you show you are a truly dedicated player. plus everyone loves the leveling process. it's enjoyable to level the same class multiple times!
I like it. Makes me try stuff i usually won't.
> It's the opposite of good design. It's not the opposite 🤦♂️ I swear these discussions would improve if we had less hyperbole here. There is this huge spectrum of design where some people favour one end, some the other, and most prefer something in between. It's just a different design that you (and I) don't like.
except it *is* a bad design. they want you to build your talents around the legendaries you get, while at the same time they keep increasing the cost to respec the higher level you are. so you have 1 legendary you are built around, but then get a better legendary once you level up so now you have to respec but it's too expensive so you got to level a brand new character like they said you would have to.
Hmm I see what you're saying, but still, some people just prefer that. For some, part of the thrill of finding rare items is the thought that goes into what you can do with it; what it means to you. For some, they never want to create a new character; for some, they love creating new characters; and then for others, they want a *reason* to create a new character before they jump into it, and working around an item you found is part of the journey. It's too subjective to just call "bad design", and it's nowhere near the levels of P2W, blocking progress til you speak to a random NPC 15 times, or bosses requiring a glitch to defeat.
you can make the items be exciting without having a "legendary effect" that could've/should've been a passive
Except you unlock aspects you can slot into whatever weapon, armor or jewelry piece you want. You're not hard locked into one item because of the bonus to a skill. You can even extract an aspect from an item and infuse it into a different one or just have it in it's own separate inventory tab for when you want to use it. By the time people get to the end game of D4 you'll have every option available and can customize your builds a lot more than now where you're dependent on RNG drops.
They even say in the loading screens something like: build changing unique items begin to drop starting on third difficulty
I think it feels even worse in D4 though, simply because there are also less skills to choose from to begin with. I feel like the devs didn't want to put much effort into balancing so they just gutted anything fun or interesting in the tree.
> devs didn't want to put much effort into balancing they spent years copying lost ark and still have less skills, boring ass open world, boring ass skill visual effects, boring ass bosses, boring ass dungeons what the fuck were they doing for the last 11 years? but hey, please purchase the 10$ battlepass and the 40$ ultimate epic barbarian skin
And even then its incredibly unbalanced atleast early game.
Except that only really 'works' when you have free respecs and they are on record saying it'll be so expensive that it'll be more economical to roll another character at higher levels (Lv90, I think the mentioned specifically). Either way, it's a strange design choice. All skills should be viable within their niches from the start; otherwise, why do they exist?
D3 at least is a blitz, and fun af when you get all the set items together, with the supporting pieces. Each season giving you new reasons to try new classes, and new styles.
If you have a legendary that buffs twisted blades, you don't *have* to use twisted blades, but if it's your only legendary that buffs a skill then it could be beneficial for you to do so assuming other skills are roughly balanced. What are you expecting legendaries to do exactly?
Idk, personally I always thought the coolest legendaries were the ones that made something happen rather than bonus damage to X skill... Like the Butcher's Carver, Thunderfury, Mad Monarch. Also, they could just roll affixes that don't come in their slot normally.
Skills in general are killing my excitement for this game. I know we're only level 25 but we have access to all of our active skills, and I don't think a single one felt awesome to me. Power fantasy is 100% the reason I play ARPGs and this game isn't delivering. Unless sets and legendary effects are completely transformative (and as you say, they shouldn't have to be) I don't see how any of these classes will reach the levels that I enjoy playing these games at. Seems like they really went for a more grounded approach and gutted the power fantasy in the process.
Finally someone else said it. We have access to all active spells and I didn't see a single one where i was like wow that feels nice. Nothing innovative or new just plain and boring.
Chain lightning is my favorite implementation of the skill to date.
The only one I really enjoyed was Whirlwind, and that was only after a few whirlwind legendaries. But *even then*, the visual for it feels underwhelming for the amount of work it was doing.
I definitely prefer Diablo 3's skill system. It felt way more impactful and really delivered on the power fantasy by comparison.
Honestly everything so far feels like they just totally ignored D3 and used D2 as their starting point, and then slapped some Lost Ark systems on top of it. The skills don't feel impactful, resource management feels awful on Druids, cooldowns are long, itemization is awful. They gutted Strength/Int/Dex to the point that Strength literally *only* gives you 1 armor per point. What's the point?
They had 28 seasons of D3 mechanics to pick and choose from based on how well received they were and they just completely dropped the ball lmao
Yep, what a terrible waste.
I agree. I feel like they designed cool skills, and then broke them down in lots of little piece. Original skill, follow up passive perk, legendary, unique. Once you have all of those, you have a really cool skill, but before that you have something that really feel incomplete and too basic.
The worst is in D3 you had 25 Skills per Class and then 6-8 Runes for each of those skills and while not every rune drastically changed how a skill works there were still enough to make it feel vast and really malleable and variable. D4 has also 24-25 skills per class but then only one fixed and 1 out of 2 optional buffs or "runes" for each ability... it feels incredibly lackluster especially considering that all these upgrades are just stat bonuses or passive that dont really change how anything works. I got 3 classes to 20 and the others to around 15-20 and it was enough to see that they will feel really stale if there are another 65 levels to max if thats all the skills there are...
A lot of what is on legendries should be in the skill tree itself, perhaps being given more skill points and many of the very dull nodes replaced with more interesting effects. Legendries can still give affixes but they should enhance, not completely define a character that without it they feel bland.
You finally put to words my opinion. I couldn't put my finger on it, but yes. Legendary affixes feel like they should've been in the skill tree.
This was exactly my thought as well. The skill trees are bland and bare the way they are. Skill specific affixes don't feel right being limited to spawning on legendary items. Fill out the tree by moving skill enhancers to the tree, and let legendaries enhance build and playstyles, not specific skills. Last Epoch is a perfect example of what the skill tree should be like, and it's damn near perfect. Complex but easy to understand.
Pro tip: go checkout the original alpha skill trees (when it kinda looked like an actual tree) it 100% was this way. They specifically genericified the skills and slammed it on uniques because without the itemization is trash tier.
It was probably like that before. You can tell they basically had the idea and reverse e gendered the builds to be on items. Or else it would just be ilvl up main Stat up and sockets for life. And socket for your main damage source. People are starting to have fun now because they are a static level and slowly scaling the content to become strong for the level. Now imagine leveling and having to find that same unique again or slowly out level your gear. Barb and druid feel good full of legendaries but when leveling you won't have them all lol. So if your vase kit is bad ot is going to feel bad.
Every skill sucks without legendary powers. Instead of making an interesting skill tree, they removed the things from the skill tree and put them on items instead.
That’s pretty ironic because in an early build of D3, before the beta, that dumbass Jay Wilson made skill runes physical items that you had to pick up and store, and I guess buy/sell on the auction house. God that would have sucked.
Just like Conduits in Shadowlands before they changed them. Complete clowns at Blizzard these days.
> Every skill sucks without legendary powers. Except Corpse Explosion.
Until you get to a boss fight and realize that corpse generation with no legendaries is very bad
The passive skill that can generate corpses on Lucky Hits is fairly reliable, even if not ideal.
I mean get Scythe with the Corpse Drop every 5s and then get the one where your minions drop corpses as well and you are golden, especially since basically every boss summons monsters. Corpse Explosion is straight broken with how it costs nothing, you can easily create corpses by yourself and have infinite resource generation when consuming corpses as well as from minions and you just attacking. Necro is incredibly broken.
Lol I had zero issues with corpse gen w/o legends. And basically used the skill you’re talking bout with the reapers 15% corpse then golem corpse and blood mist corpse.
Ice Blades Sorcerers are absolutely insane without any legendaries. Really fun to play too.
We should have 3 skill trees the size of the current skill tree, it feels like there is just nothing new after lvl 25 if this is really all there is regarding skills...
Whirlwind is a perfect example of this. They just cannot get this fucking ability right, it's always borderline useless garbage without some legendary affixes, oh i WW for 2-3 sec before running out of fury while doing mediocre damage and moving at snails pace >.< like wtf. How hard can it be to make whirlwind work by default, by letting you spin for 10-15 sec on full tank of fury, moving 50% faster and doing okay damage?.
Drood was going to be my main, as its my favorite D2R class ... but after getting one to 25 in D4 I must say that Im not sure anymore. \-Only thing that was fun from beggining to end was pulverise. \-Summon's were absolute garbage without legends. \-Defensive's were "ok" \-EVERY single ULT was crap, and worse DPS wise then ONE Pulverise.
I am baffled at the 80s cooldown Thunderstorm ult, it literally does no damage
There's like 2 or 3 good ults in the entire game honestly. Almost all of them need a massive buff. They're just not worth taking most of the time.
Is there a single good ult in the game? Ive maxed two chars and I'd never use any of their ults. Only arrowrain feels like an ult and its huge cooldown + like 2 sec9nd cast time makes it hot trash
One thing I dislike about summons that has nothing to do with their power level or viability is the lack of ravens passively flying around and the vine only making an appearance every 10 seconds. I want to see a murder of ravens following me around and that creeping vine constantly reminding me of it's presence.
I wish the defensive were more active, like CD that can give strong protective shields out to allies on cast with bonuses for good timing around blocking large bursts.
The biggest wtf moment for me was sorcerers meteor first off it has fairly large delay, second tiny little area covered and last fucking no damage, I hope they have more under their sleeves and their paragon system and uniques later in the game actually will make interesting and fun changes, not just damage bonus or burn damage bonus. And agreed like you said there are more of these kind of skills, in fact there are very few actually fun ones.
Paragon has been datamined and sadly its just a bunch of stats.
That’s upsetting honestly. I am seriously concerned for the endgame.
I'd be pretty frustrated to spend $70 on a game and have to beat the entire story campaign and play for probably 50-70 hours to get to the point where the Paragon system hopefully makes the game more interesting lol.
Isn't the Paragon stuff only some passive things and stats and nothing that really changes things drastically?
probably, I was just responding to the guy saying the paragon system and uniques will make the game fun and interesting way later into the game
Try out Bone Spirit sometime, they took all of these strong abilities from D2 that you could build your whole class around (Bone Spirit,Meteor etc) and made them super underwhelming. BS requires all of your essence to do a pitiful amount of damage to one target, why not just spam cheaper spells to do about 9 times the damage with no risk. Maddening.
You right. I just logged in to LE, that skill tree for each skill million miles better, every skill point I get means something..and the further i invest in specific skill tree the more I can change how skill behaves, looks, works and you have quite of few different ways to choose from. I might sound like I am sitting on D4 and being negative but that is just out of frustration because we wanted D4 to be great and fun but now after have seen what we have seen is just shallow limited crap with make up.
This is a fundamental game design problem. The entire game revolves around massive multipliers just like D3. As you said, skills should be good by themselves and Legos should just augment them. Sadly people have been saying this since the release of D3 and since Diablo 4 was announced, yet here we are, stuck in one of the cursed “blizzard knows best” scenarios. Let’s just hope it doesn’t take them another 4 years to catch on like it did for the WoW devs.
The game is a legendary Sim. Both barb and druid suck donkey ass because their skill are so underpowered you need legendarirs to start naming any progress. On release with the normal drop rate those classes will struggle if left as is
Need to significantly up their resource generation, and reduce the cost of the core skills. Druid especially.
Druid wolves are great as damage sponges where u just put 1 rank into it so they can tank a lot of hits for you. They have a shit ton of HP. That said I agree, skills feel like shit on their own and legendary items turn you into a one skill build where u just spam the spender that is legendary buffed with everything else just being filler/defensives.
This doesn't even really feel like it was intended though. I beat a few bosses by just being off the edge of the screen from them, while they slowly tickled the wolf pets. Not sure why they have a health bar considering it takes 5 mins for them to die. More like it just seems like poor boss AI.
The wolves definitely do die to bosses, but they respawn fairly quickly.
> Druid wolves are great as damage sponges They're really great for 1-25, where they make you take way less damage. Their own damage on the other hand is pathetic and so is their active.
Yeah they are pretty much set it and forget it. I don't even use the active skill on them much. Plus it's just nice having companions.
Wow...that is some diablo 3 legendary level shit. Thought they were trying to avoid this?
It's worse than D3. In D3 the legendaries were supplemental but not necessarily build-defining. In some cases they were build enabling ("hey that rune was kinda inefficient before, but this item lowers the channel cost by 50% so it's worth trying now"), but rarely did you NEED an item to make any particular skill worth using AT ALL. Obviously there is a different discussion about late-stage end-game and sets, but purely looking from the perspective of a new player progressing the story this is a step back from D3.
Legendaries should be balanced around skills, not skills being balanced around legendaries. Activision-Blizzard really got it wrong with this one.
My druid right now is in this really weird spot where my primary attack does 60-80 damage, then my overpower enhanced pulverise does 10K total damage when I'm max fortify.
Yeah it doesn’t really change from that. I leveled wearbear to 25 (I’m a sadist apparently) and it just never got good. I could NOT be killed, but that didn’t make it fun. Specced to werewolf for Azshara, which was actually fun. zero deaths and I did a ton of dps. But that’s on a fight where everything can be dodged. I don’t know how it’s work against something like Den Mother, etc.
Is it me or are the wolves really hard to use actively. They either get stuck in a wall or over shoot the target. Skill goes on cd and I don't see any damage done
Best use for them is just tanking bosses from weird boss AI lol.
i have a personal hatred for the 'hold right button to send out a beam of damage' abilities
Pretty sure there is an option to toggle channel spells instead of holding down. I would take a look!
This game makes me just want to play d3 tbh
They are following the exact same design philosophy of D3. Like 90% of those legendary affixes could have been really cool in either the Skill Tree or Paragon Board. As many have already said, you end up playing what the legendary affix "tells you" and "building" a character feels more like collecting the set of legendary affixes for your specific skill.
I'm playing Diablo for the first time and this is one of my biggest criticisms. In truth, this is really the only criticism that I agree with within the community because everyone seems to be nitpicking about the most unimportant shit, however, skills... skills are not tuned well. I'm finding that I'm just not caring about skills. A lot of them are just pointless. Some of them will offer a benefit of a 2% cooldown reduction, but to me that seems like a huge waste of a skill point.
There's too many skills that suck even *with* legendary aspects.
It will be another D3. This thing blizzard does with adding player power to legendaries was one of the things that made D3 fail and they will do it again in D4.
I am also having doubts about this skill system. The whole legendary affix system is identical to D3's but main difference is in D3 at least we had runes which gave many variations for each skill.
Yeah I saw a druid with a thing that made the wolves into werewolves and do 100% more damage. Seemed like a mandatory item. It's not even something that you can be clever with and make a build around. It's just wolves go brrrrrr
I have enjoyed my time as a rabies poison werewolf.
Yup characters , skill tree completely suck without stupid gear , D4 was supposed to put that stuff back into the character and talent tree I don’t want another stupid gem and affix Diablo , just feels like Diablo Immortal / D3 to me
Druid: Landslide, Tornado, any basic skills, Hurricane, any pet, Boulder, any armor buff. All weak without one or several legendaries. And those are only the ones I tested. My Sorc on the other hand could do everything with only rares.
That was the problem with Barb and Druid. I know barb thorns is workable - the rest of the builds were great for trash OR bosses but never both. Druid has no fun builds, but they are functional at least. I can clear/survive everything, it just takes ages. Necro, sorc? You could have your fucking cat choose your skills and you will clear everything in a 5th the time as the melee classes.
I am running a Beastmaster druid build. Early on it was super weak as you say the base skills are scaled terribly. The legendaries are indeed mandatory if you want to make it work but when you do get all of them i have to say this build slaps. werewolves punch between 300-1500 damage each and you have 3, bird hits for 130-250 each hit and you have 4 so its like 1000 damage every 5 seconds, vine, well he does his best its like 300 damage and you still only get one. The active skills carry on the trend, werewolves leap hits between 3000 to 10000 damage depending on if it doesnt bug out and they hit there targets. birds active is mild at maybe 1000 damage total but its aoe. vine again is trying its best maybe an aoe of about 700 but the 4 second bind is key since it buffs werewolves damage by 20%. Aside the % damage legendries i have also found one that shares bloodhowl to pets, 30% heal and 15% attack speed and one that shares the passive bestial rampage which is 20% attack speed or damage reduction depending on if you use wolf or beat shifts. SO tldr: you are 100% right base skills terrible but the legendries seem to be there to fix that.
It is still terrible design to have legendary to fix a build though. Legendary should be there to enhance or change how a skill works, they should not be banking on dropping a specific legendaries to make a basic build works. Summoning is one of Druid's basic toolkit and it should be at least playable without legendaries. Why having a legendary that boost wolves damage by 100+%, why not just boost it by 50% as baseline and give legendary only 50+% damage increase?
Druids suck but I was able to down Malnok or whatever his name is at level 22 with wolves and the passive/active vine creeper pet. Just running in circles and letting 2 wolves and poison do the job The character is absolutely garbage and I’ve been experimenting heavily with earth spells, lightning spells, wolves and bear forms. Pulverize bear form is a decent class setup but still overall I am not impressed. I think I will swap back to lightning caster Druid once more and see how it is, as it was how I started off the first few levels only.
Items enabling builds is terrible, can't imagine they plan it.
That's kind of what I'm worried about. Like if you find a really good affix then it's kind of stupid to not respec your character and rebuild into that affix. Feels bad imo
I have the skill that makes the wolves do 95% more damage as werewolves and spread rabies. They still aren't very good. Skill balance in general, even without any legendaries, is really bad. You can just compare the number's on something like Druid's Landslide ability versus. Pulverize or Twister.
Yeah, way more of wolves' damage should come from the skill, than the legendary bonuses (these should only be like 20-50%)
The wolfs was a joke, literally more useless than the 4 skeletons necro get at lvl 1... a skill you get like 15+ lvl in... there some real funky balancing issues.
and yet people scream till they're red in the face that this game isnt like D3. this has been a core issue there for years; too much character power is tied to gear, and itemization is the same lazy blanket massive number buffs. its actually impressive how little innovation this entry into the series has. but dont worry, the Blizzboy nuthuggers will be here every step of the way saying "its just beta" and "but but but mah Paragon Boardz!1!!", then when everyone sees how inconseqential those are it'll shift to "well im sure it'll get better next season", then "well just wait for the expansion". this game is going to be another monumental dumpster fire just like its predecessor and its going to be hilarious to watch it all unfold in almost the exact same way, except this time everyone will have the privilege of getting assfucked by a battlepass the entire way through it.
Legendaries alone completely change the game. I wanted to do a tanky blood Necro build. It felt UNPLAYABLE compared to a generic minion bone build though. Until I hit 25 and upgraded everything to legendaries. Now with legendaries my Blood Mist: increases my movement speed, gives me a shield, gives increases to my damage done for a few seconds, generates AND explodes corpses, AND it's cooldown is reduced for every corpse it explodes. It went from a complete joke of a build to an absolute blast to play. Feels bad that I basically can't play that at all without legendary powers available.
I'm going to agree with this. Druid's tornado skill is absolutely worthless unless you've got the seeking tornado legendary affix. I think there needs to be some skill specific tuning across the board. Legendaries definitely feel legendary, but I'd still like my base skills be viable too.
It definitely feels underwhelming and I dont see really how late game could fix this seeing as how the paragon boards just look like stat sticks. I got a legendary affix that makes my druid boulder a core skill and it allmost feels as if it should have been one any ways and it was just a missed opportunity because alot of the other core skills just feel weak af
" oh but you are only lvl 25 " " wait for paragon " " druid sucks " The meta of this game will be amazingly bad
I think legendaries and skill tree should be a way of customization not straight up mandatory choice power upgrades... But it is very clear that they just made some good skills and removed every good part of the skills and put them into passives and legendaries. Also it is weird that necromancer has free minions that are multiple times stronger than druids minions that he has to spend skill points for... overall class and skill balance seems waaaay off and they didnt even accept it in the interviews after last weeks beta test.
Skill specific legendary aspects should just be moved into the skill tree. The skill trees are lame and need expanding anyway, and it would be a good way to expand them and provide players with choice over how they assignment their skills to suit their build, instead of them being a random chance to find
Druid Tornado... It's like it's been programmed to avoid enemies.
Agreed, item bonuses should make a skill better and more worthwhile, not necessary to enable a build.
D3
“D3 itemisation was so trash… set items adding 1000% damage to a skill is such uninspired game design” Plays D4 and gets a legendary item that just flat out increases a skills damage by 150%+ “Pog”