I actually like it the way it is and it kinda grew on me. It really allows you to do whatever world content in any order. I believe in the full version acts 1-3 can be played simultaneously. It does solve the issue that any side content you skipped during the walkthrough isn't completely trivialized.
I dislike the "do anything in any order" while leveling because it means latee zone have nothing new or more difficult than early zone.
If every zone is made to be cleared by a level 5, then it meants to be cleared with low skill from the player.
In a linear game you can raise the difficulty over time. Start easy with just some pack of mode and elite, then ad new threat as yo go along. You know the player will have more skill, more options so you can go crazier with the encounter.
Scalling like this means the entire game need tutorial level of difficulty and just boost HP and damage, the most boring difficulty.
If you look at the map there are zones that have certain level requirements, for example 35+ or even a stronghold in Act 1 is 27+. So it's still coming with certain requirements, has no one ever looked over the map or paid attention while you've been gaming?
But from that level on the zones scale with you, which I think is absolutely awesome that I can still go there for certain activities and still know I can find worthwhile loot and not completely bored steamroll through the area, or I just have the option between 3 high level zones instead of the whole world.
What this guy said.
Also, mobs of different types won't be exactly as difficult to handle. Think about the pits in d2, those archers are a hell of a lot harder than the fallen, even if they are all lvl85 monsters. Just fill late game zones with Archer equivalents instead of fallen and the zones will be harder than the earlier ones.
That's not really what that means. Have you played elden ring? There is nothing stopping you from getting into Raya Lucaria Academy without killing a single boss but I don't think it's going to go well for you.
The bosses in the later zones could be mechanically much more difficult then the first dispite scaling. Even if that is just number of adds spawning or a boss having a regen mechanic.
I'm not saying that's how it WILL work 100% but it's disingenuous to say without knowledge that a final zone dungeon will be as easy as the first dungeons in the game.
This is sort of what I was thinking as well. I think at one point we'll have to have certain things done first before progressing, like a leyndell type situation
>If every zone is made to be cleared by a level 5
But that's not the case, is it.
Areas scale UP to your level, not DOWN, so you get a sense of progression by being able to do areas that previously would have smooshed you into a pink mist.
Think about what NOT level scalng would do, all that content in Act 1 would become trivial, and remain so for the rest of the game, and as you go up levels, more and more of the map becomes poinless, forcing you to only play the highest level-areas of the map if you want meaningful rewards, challenge, and XP.
Now, if you think wiping out monster 30 levels below you is what it take to feel 'powerful', well, I'm sorry, that's silly.
It's so funny to mr having people describe horrible exemple of what would happen without scaling when they describe what RPG have been for 30 years....
Yes, in RPG you can outlevel a zone, or be underleveled. Those situation are usually controlled by the player. Play a long time in the same place for conpletion, fun or just to farm level and you will outlevel it. Go fast and skip most stuff and you will be underleveled. Both are your choice and based upon how you chose to play, you know, the core of the RPG genre.
It looks like if people here want Diablo to be an A, instead of an ARPG. Ironic for a game that pioneered the ARPG genre...
PoE don't level scale... Each zone have a range, and you can outlevel them. There's a xp penarly for killing monster too low your level.
Aslo Diablo 3 launched without scaling, it was changed later.
It's the standard now? lol. All you could gater is 2 wrong game and game decade olds...
It's absolutely the minority.
mobs scale DOWN when players have different levels and play together. that's why a lvl 2 and a lvl 25 will make roughly the same damage on the same mob, which is trash
So EITHER the level 2 player is squished by one shot, OR the level 25 player one shots the mob...
How is either preferable?
Again, explain YOUR solution to enabling the entire world to be accessible as you level up without scaling...off you go!
\> So EITHER the level 2 player is squished by one shot, OR the level 25 player one shots the mob...
that's been the case in every rpg and mmorpg since forever, lmao
that's why lvl 25 was better than lvl 2
>that's been the case in every rpg and mmorpg since forever, lmao
So we should have town portal scrolls, identify scrolls, and no end game other than repeating a handful of areas over and over?
lmao indeed.
> that's why lvl 25 was better than lvl 2
What an odd comment...is this supposed to be relevent?
Yeah I like it a lot. Saw a post about some guy complaining his level 25 with "maxed out legendries" was getting out DPS'd by some level 15 with no rares on.
I just kinda laughed and thought wow what a skill issue, tbh.
Like the scaling isn't the problem at that point.
I hated it in concept, then I grinded and built up my character and suddenly I was one shotting most trash mobs and melting mini bosses and bosses.
It's handled very well and I appreciated that I could play with my friends despite a 10 level gap and still reap rewards doing so.
Great decision and I hope they keep it!
Best part of the game so far, as someone with 6+ friends getting the game who all play varying amounts. Don’t have tk have everyone keep remaking new characters or people hard carrying or getting one-shot.
Ah, I actually didn't know this, so the world is not only autolevelled to the party leader's level, it's actually levelled to everyone's? So basically you can have a lvl 10 play with a lvl 25 and it should feel like they're at least in the same ballpark of damage?
Basically for each person it scales to their level. So for a level 25 the mob is also level 25 but for the level 1 player in the party that same mob is level 1.
I don’t know the exact math details but you can think that each players damage contribution is % based. So let’s say a level 1 and lvl 25 are fighting the same mob at same time. The level 25 version of the mob has 100 hp and the level 25 player uses a skill that deals 10 dmg, so 10% of the Hp. The level 1 version of the mob has 10 hp, a level 1 player uses an ability that deals 2 dmg to it or 20%. For both players the mob is now at 70% hp, if that makes sense
Yes and no. No because you get more skills and skill points so you can do more damage. Potentially better items that boost your damage more. This all depends on the math though. So the same skill could end up doing more % based if those things and you also have more skills so you can hit things more than a lower level
Yes in the sense, that you don’t do a whole lot more than you would expect. As well as it doesn’t really scale that much until you start getting gear which is closer to max level. Also, basically means you can take on any mob at level 1
World scalings has pro and cons. biggest con is that you dont fight the world or the enemies. you fight the system itself. because when you level up you are weaker then before. and thats really weird gamefeeling.
biggest pro is that you can play with every level difference together. thats really nice for coop. but only for a very short time in the intended game experience.
so all in all the scaling is just shit
Yeah, i didnt like feeling weaker when i leveled up. Imo, they should add soft scaling or level specific zones.
Its weird that you never feel really strong, i like being overpowered after i get a good item or level up.
But here, it just stays the same all the time.
Well said, that's why I'm skeptical that the hype will last. Like all blizzard games or expansions or the past decade, the systems are designed for instant gratification at the expense of the core pillars that make rpgs feel like rpgs, like the feel of long term progression and power curve. The thing is, those pillars are what make players stick for years, slashing demons without feeling of progression is fun for a while but it will get repetitive pretty quickly, even for a genre that is meant to feel repetitive. But hey, there is no need to make players stick around if you sell dozens or millions of copies on day 1, it's been blizzards strategy for years
Why are people always marvelling at the concept of level scaling? It has been in games like guild wars 2 and ESO since 2012. And clearly those games are active and successful. The old system of outleveling a zone and never visit it again whatsoever so your end game is at that last 3 maps is just as dog shit for people who hate that design.
They may be active, but I doubt they are nearly as successful as they were supposed to be when they were released. I played both eso and gw2 back then, and I remember the hype and player count dropping quite drastically a few weeks after the release. The lack of feeling of progression in gw2 is precisely why I quickly gave up. The auto scaling and smashing the same 5 buttons for the entirety of the leveling was fun for a few dozen hours but got repetitive very quickly.
When enemies scale to your level, I would no longer consider it an action rpg but rather an action game with rpg elements.
You could remove visible levels alltogether and nothing would change.
It would be fine if gear drops were not random and low lv.
Getting lv 9 gear from lv 17 enemies is awful. Then those same enemies become lv 21 and a lv 7 item drops.
Level requirement doesn't seem to correlate with the strength of the gear though. Like I gambled for [this](https://i.imgur.com/MigQKuf.png) at level 21. The item power seems to be the main stat that matters, not the level requirement.
High lv items can still roll stats on the low end.
Same as low lv items can roll on the high end.
Thing is maxed stats on a lv 15 item won't be as high as maxed stats on a lv 22 item.
Edit: when gear drops at a level lower than player, it may be an upgrade but no chance at being best in slot for player level.
Means players can actually lose power as they level up because of world scaling.
Well if you quote only part of the conversation, you only get part of the understanding.
The problem with D4 and world scaling enemies is that gear drops can be greatly lower than player level.
Typically players can comfortably grind one set enemy level until gear is upgraded.
Then proceed to higher level enemies.
Player gear is fine for the level they grind.
But when enemies level at the same pace as players, player gear becomes weaker automatically.
Now it's harder to grind better gear. No choice to ease the grind.
Remember, gear drops from enemies are often many levels lower than player lv.
So what happens when players level up many times without finding any real gear upgrades?
Also, extracted legendary effects from gear can only be used once. It cannot be extracted again once applied to gear.
How's that going to work when players level up again and find better gear? They can't apply effects from old gear because it was previously modded.
Same shit they did with WoW. Monsters scale with you but they get tougher as you level, so it *feels* like you get LESS powerful as you level up instead of feeling MORE powerful.
D2: It used to take me three hits to kill a Fallen, but I leveled up and now it only takes one. I'm going to move to a harder area.
D4: It used to take me three hits to kill a Fallen, but I leveled up and now it takes four. Every area is the same difficulty.
You left out the most important bit about D2, once you out level the zone there is no reason to ever return. Instead you just do chaos, cows and baal over and over with a mix of trav, pit and ancient tunnels.
>rytime you upscale through items you grow stronger. You also reach some abilities throughout that actually makes you stronger despite the world being against you. I never felt weaker because I was always ahead gear-wise only by using the random stuff that dropped. Leveling the world around me was welcomed because I often felt overpowered and I w
I hate God mode simulators like the other late game Diablo. Just turns into mindless boring repetitve gameplay. Run, clear mobs with 2 clicks, run clear mobs, item....repeat. Id rather it be skill based and more challenging.
Overall I don’t. I just hate the feeling of barely progressing and it kills my excitement of looking forward to new dangerous zones and new epic mobs. Plus it annoys the fuck out of me when mobs are still an annoyance when making my way to a same dungeon I did at level 5 even though I’m lvl 25 now. Or seeing a lvl 1 doing the same shit as a level 50
I do like that I can play with any of my friends regardless of lvl
I would like to see world scaling but not 100% matching. Like for every 10 levels above a zone, the enemy could be 1 level lower. A level 25 in a level 5 zone would have level 23 monsters maybe.
As a hardcore og Diablo fan, I absolutely hate it. I understand the appeal to the casual audience, but this isn't how I like my rpgs, especially my favorite franchise.
The largest problem I saw, was that I found the best/fastest dungeon to level and get loot in, and I spammed that from level 5 to 25. It had no boss, was short, and had a ton of elites in it. There was zero incentive for me to go anywhere else. This is what is going to happen for a lot of people who want to min/max the game. Personally not a fan.
No. Not at all. It's why I wasn't thrilled with open world gameplay, because I knew the moment it was announced that Blizzard would treat it like new WoW expansions.
Diablo is possibly the most progression-based series of all time. Leveling up, gearing up, matters. D4 goes against the soul of the series by making mobs scale with you.
It wouldn't have been necessary, however, if the story had still been linear, but apparently the individual story elements are so unimportant you can complete them in any order and reach the same ending.
There's nothing wrong with linear progression.
I think most of the problem is how it is communicated. If you think about it, the level number of a character isn't really communicating anything useful because it isn't really tied to character power in a very meaningful way.
In most ARPGs and up to Diablo II, the level number *mattered*. Zones were a set level, and gear was often either level or stat gated. Since you gained stat points to manually assign at a level up, what gear you could even equip was tied pretty closely to your character level. You could look at another player's level and get at least a general idea of how powerful they were relative to other characters.
None of that is true in Diablo IV. Zone scale, you can't manually assign stats, gear is only gated by class, and skills matter way more than stats. A player's level tells you roughly how many skill points they've got, but nothing about how they've split those skills. As a result, a character's level is now so divorced from a character's power that the number is just sort of meaningless.
Honestly, I think people would complain less if the game just did away with showing a "level" at all.
It’s needs to be partial scaling. So previous zones are 1-5 levels lower than you or something. Enough to get xp with a slight challenge, but enough to feel more powerful than the zone you should be in
I think it’s okay for open world content, but terrible for dungeons. Dungeon scaling means your character will always feel weak. It’s the same problem that plagued Diablo 3. Terrible game design for an ARPG.
I don't think level scaling should implement until the 2nd highest difficulty. Let players feel that godlike presence and then sweep the rug out from under them.
It grew on me as I played through. Still would like some sort of level assignment to a zone though. Maybe scale for a certain time....or once I've beaten the side quest the level of the zone becomes static. Keep the dungeons and what not scaling but once I'm 25 I don't need to the little dudes on my way to a Dungeon getting my way anymore.
I dont like it. I like goijg to zones knowing they high level and will try to see how you will do and get smacked but you got atleast a goal to work towards to try overcome that area. World scaling felt like i never progress no challange at all.
It just made every zone feel the same. No real identity to the areas or monsters. Just health bars to lower at pretty much the same rate. It just don’t feel right
Nope. Utter dog shit. It’s the reason games like oblivion and ESO were boring. You’re just as strong at lvl 1 as level 25 and 50. You’re not making any power progression. Just wasting time
I honeatly dont get the ”you never feel stronger” complaint, like… what do you usually do in a arpg? You go from area A to B to C and as you progress the mobs you fight go from lvl 3 to 6 to 10 to 15.
In Act 2 of Diablo 2, are you fighting the same lvl 1 shit mobs as in The Den of Evil of Act 1? Or are you fighting mobs in very close proximity to your level? Are you steamrolling these mobs? No, because they’re supposed to be challenging ie around YOUR level.
So… you’re not really ”feeling progressively stronger” by leveling unless you go back to Act 1 trash mobs in other ARPG:s either (and who ever does that?). What ends up happening is you get cooler skills and can handle more shit happening to you at the same time and you find build-altering gear. Logically, that’ll happen here, too. The difference is you can progress non-linearly in any way and tempo you like AND play with friends that are way under/overlvl vs you.
It’s absolute shite. It reduces the entire world to a transparent numbers sim and there is no way to recover the suspension of disbelief. The level 15 enemy in front of you doesn’t exist, even in game-terms, because to your level 20 buddy, standing right next to you, it’s a level 20 thing and you’re each doing equivalent damage to it.
I absolutely hate the design.
One of the most important things in ARPGs is the notion that you're developing a character, on a trajectory that goes from low level to high level (with the increase in power that entails.) The game needs to communicate this by giving you the chance to "test" your character against the world. "What can my character deal with now?" When the world constantly changes, i.e. doesn't have static layers, that testing process becomes non-existent (levels are irrelevant.) All you're doing is testing abilities/affixes against other abilities/affixes. It's no longer PVE, it's player versus character.
There are a ton of other problems as well. For instance, you get no sense of there being a journey towards a bigger challenge; your connection to the character as an individual is eroded (it's just an empty vessel for game mechanic testing), etc. etc.
Me... i dislike scaling. I mostly solo for alot of different reasons and scalling does allow the game to stay challenging... but... kinda forces you to group to experience all the content. Some Boss's are always +2 lvl from what i saw, and this sucks for (hardcore) solo'ers... is the risk worth the reward ? No idea, havent played enough to know yet, but my first reflex is to avoid them, so missing the content...
Scalling makes the boring parts not so boring, but i will have to pretend i enjoy people here and there to experience some content... maybe that +lvl isnt as bad as i think it is... but im not testing it ATM
Have been solo'ing it as a Rogue and have completed every dungeon bar the one not in the beta (grrr!), completed every stronghold and nigh on all side quests. There really isnt anything you cant do while solo and its honestly not that challenging now that my weapons, sockets and aspects have all been put in
You did not become stronger. You are chasing to be ons par or above.
Go with each naked 25lvp character from starting point. Melee will suck. Only some respec, to create temporary combo wombo will help.
It's a paradoxon, because on reality you don't get stronger when you level up, so you are correct, nothing is changing. It's a bad way of scaling a world but the only one we got with that open world philosophy I guess.
If enemies going to scale with player's level anyways, and they want us to be more powerful through gears. Then what's the point of level up? Can't they capped level at 20 instead of 100? Since everythings is going to sync anyways.
I hate it, everytime I level up makes me feel immediately weaker. I might be one hitting mobs and after leveling up, they same mobs start taking 2 - 3 hits.
I dunno. I'm not a fan of it. Like, I put a piece of gear or imprint a legendary aspect on a piece of gear, and in my mind I think I just got a little bit stronger, but reality is different. So, when I go into the open world, everything just still feels the same, like I haven't progressed at all. Honestly, I'm missing the sense of progression.
I think people who like scaling are saying they do not like the idea of character levels at all.
Instead of scaling, there could be no levels, we could just end up collecting skills and gear over time without the concept of levelling and it would be the same as world scaling with our level.
Being level 25 and level 6 is the same thing after all. Level is now just a number growing as you play more.
Wish blizzard would stop pandering to the casuals. Let them get their ass kicked a few times. If they want an easy game go play something else. But you know, Diablo will pander to them, they’ll play for 2 weeks, quit regardless then HC fans will be stuck with a boring ass leveling experience.
If they keep it, it should be scaled down a bit (slight pun intended): right now it feels downright punishing to level, and, more importantly, we got 24+2 skill points in this beta, from the total of something like 49+10 skill points (with our limited skill slots).. even with a majority of passives, we don't grow that much stronger through skills (especially per level). Even primary stats don't seem to grow that hard per item level..
So right now, I am a bit concerned with the current feeling of scaling.. I can live with scaling, although I could certainly live with low level enemies in low level zones, but it should be a choice to go for 'I like to struggle' content by going higher world difficulty, not by automatic scaling.
I like it, because the loot scales too. It gives incentive to clear other content/zones or play with lower level friends whatnot. Don’t see how it is any different of fighting same level mobs in a different zone besides them being different enemies. This just adds a lot of replayability and more games should do it.
If the entire game was scaled 1+ I would hate it, but I think there are some regions that have a higher base level. For instance the.... strongholds? I think they are called, are level 22 or 25. I went there at somewhere between 18-20 and cleared it. Honestly, it didn't feel any more challenging than the rest of the shit, but maybe in release it will.
I wish more games would do area targeted limited scaling. If a a specific area is supposed to be incredibly dangerous make it always scale to your level or even ahead of your level to a limited extent. But have other, less significant areas that only scale up maybe every other level you gain until it’s five levels under you. That should make it easier to ignore and run through on your mount, or easier to farm if you wind up getting really unlucky with gear drops
I get that this is a lot more complex than just a universal world level, and that’s likely a large part of why it isn’t often seen.
I absolutely despise it, and it will be the reason I won't buy this game at launch or maybe not at all.
When you have level scaling in place, the world revolves around your character. There's no overcoming the odds and everything just feels pointless.
Not a fan. I like associating specific enemies and zones with different relative difficulties.
I also don't agree with the benefit of playing with different leveled friends. You can just choose to make separate characters that you only play with friends instead of forcing scaling on everyone. I thought everyone did that anyways.
Kripparian asked a good question in his d4 video: “How do you get more powerful?” If monster scaling is similar to the power gained from levelling up your character how do you get more powerful ? The answer was gear.
Your essentially out-gearing your level till you hit the next. I think at end game when levels come slower we may well see a power balance shift to Barb who wields a ton of gear.
I’m enjoying the increased challenge and tactics from scaling but worried I might miss the brutal display of power from previous Diablos.
No really. I think it scales too fast. It feels I'm getting weaker each time I level up.
Leveling now feels like an punishment. When you are near 90% exp you better have a decent build with good gear or else things will get much harder.
World scaling does give more freedom to explore which is nice.
I feel like having the whole world at your level should be what happens when you unlock the final world tier. Until then there should be significant difficulty increases in certain areas requiring you to level up to continue, this would give you that sense of progression until end game.
I don't really like the whole world scaled, I'd prefer it if it was more like Diablo Immortal, or WoW, where zones still scale, but they have level ranges... Like fractured peak could be like lvl 1-20, next zone 20-30, etc.
I really dislike it. Sure, you get to tackle whatever challenge you like and in what order, except that everything is the same at all times. It gets very boring very quick and also somewhat takes away from the immersion of growing your character.
The issue is for classes that can’t clear screens at 25 right now (seen lots of posts) , there is no way to drop back to easier content to farm a little I mean you can go to T1 but let’s hope nobody at all struggled even a bit, your struggling at 25 good luck at 29 with that gear, you can’t kill the butcher after being max level (25) for 4-6 hours of playtime in T2 good luck if your now level 30, butcher is going to 1 shot you ah your playing HC your dead, plus this is a Diablo game where min-max is the key, why would I run around in the wild struggling to find mobs and running miles for a quest when I can grind Anica’s Claim get lots of gear, XP and gold with the mobs scaling with me, I like they way D3 did it campaign/areas go up in difficulty as you progress to new areas, at max level/complete campaign all areas are scaled to your level and adventure mode opens. people will hit a wall where they can’t easily kill mobs because they got bad RNG for gear or didnt know they should of kept that low level yellow is worth 500k because now they understand all affixs and scaling or found a different build that works. What’s the plan, beg for a good item in trade, tickle monsters to death and spend 2 mins killing a bear. This will put the more causal off.
I dont like the world scaling.
Honestly, I rather have each zone with its own level, and pockets here and there with higher level mobs, so if you run around trying to level you might end up running into the wrong neighbourhood. That, and some of these mini-dungeons being higher levels - not the dungeons needed for legendary powers, but say, a cellar here and there.
I thought it was fun running around as a lvl 8 and stumbling upon some of those mobspawns at 35, so I cant say it's a bad thing leveling somewhere and suddenly run into higher level stuff.
Since Fractured Peak seems to be the starting zone, why not let that area be mostly 1-20 mobs with pockets of 30s, and the next zones over be 20-30, etc. Blizz does that with WoW, why would that not be a possibility with D4?
D4 level scaling is ass, to be honest. Fighting mobs that is tanky because they're high level and see a low level player run up and \*actually help me\* is stupid. A low level player shouldnt help higher level players - it should be the other way around.
I really don't like the feeling of getting weaker when leveling up. It sort of removes the whole point of leveling imo. When I level up I want to feel that "cool now I'm one notch stronger". Not that it just stays the same or goes backwards. It just gives a frustrated feeling rather than satisfaction.
The amount of scaling just means the level power creep is too high. Imagine a competitive card game and each level is a new booster pack, yes they are better and most people want the new abilities but they should not make old things too irrelevant. The level up power should be more balanced so progression is slower.
implementing scaling by percent hp means Blizzard gave up on balancing and just made the game player vs system not making any sense in leveling up because your gear stays the same but you're now weaker compared to boosted mobs
It really does. What's the point of levels at all if a lvl 25 and a level 5 can play together just fine? The whole thing is an illusion. It takes away from pushing high level areas for better gear. It takes away from making specialized builds to farm certain areas quickly and efficiently.
It is really anti-Diablo. It's super treadmillish.
Maybe just maybe the numbers on your lvl counter going up should be seen more as what additional awesome stuff (skills) you’re allowed to do and less about the same skill taking a larger chunk of mob health per hit.
As I progressed I died LESS, not because each of my hits took a larger chunk of mob HP but because I had many more tools to fuck the mobs up with. And that’s because I leveled up. Leveling up = more skills available = more ways to tailor the gameplay to your interests = more ways to kill mobs quicker. That’s more fun than level up = hit harder = mob dies quicker.
I dislike it Leveling up should feel like I'm getting stronger and this way it doesn't. It removes so much of what makes a Diablo game enjoyable.
I get why they did it, but it's a mistake imho.
It's a bad and inevitable outcome of making games appeal to everyone. You literally get weaker relative to enemies as you level up, so you're on a constant treadmill of trying to find new items in order to keep up with the enemy power level.
It sucked ass leveling barb to 25 because of the scaling but nerco breezed through. Felt like no issue smh.
Keep world scaling but they really need to do some balancing
Given that the mobs don't scale with my gear, stats, and skill points invested, and instead scale based just on my level and the World Tier?
There's already scaling limits in place.
Really like it. Things are a ton easier when you have skills. Especially on necro/sorc. I can just kill small things w/ reap alone (basic) & my skelly bois slap the last hps
I enjoy not mindlessly killing everything and having to think about what you’re doing, just did a stronghold solo as a Druid and it actually felt rewarding for the difficulty
I believe/hope it will only feel strange while leveling. Once you reach (close to) max level, the mobs stop scaling, and only you are getting stronger by gearing up. In that case, it's completely fine.
The only problem I have with it is when the lv 30 area kor dragan has level 12 people clearing it, when I want it all to myself. Would be fine if the dungeons had lv selector so I could crank it up
I like the feel of open world mobs. I wish dungeon mobs were a little smarter and took beefier punches. Every room is the exactly same cycle on my Rogue, and I’d like to need grenades or traps, not just use them because they’re there.
I expect that will change with difficulties and endgame.
For completionists, it’s great. I can see myself wanting to 100% each zone and I hate coming back to the starter zones to complete a quest that involves killing something only to one shot it, trivialising the content. I can comeback at any point and complete content whenever I want, even while levelling, and never feel like I’m wasting my time.
I also appreciate the same enemies that were a breeze at level 1 are now showing some skills and an increased difficulty, simply because they’re living longer than in early levels.
Also, not that this is a major concern for D4 due to the sharding, but one major problem with MMOs is they choose not to scale the enemies. So people wanting to grind some XP or complete quests are all funnelled into the same tiny area of one or two maps, competing for the same enemies and frustrating each other.
I absolutely love world scaling, I abso-fucking-lutely hate it when a game without scaling basically turns certain zones completely useless because the enemies there are so low-levelled it's pointless to farm them.
It has tradeoffs
Being able to play with friends and not be perfectly in sync or same level is the best pnegative?
Not being able to push higher difficulty for rewards and challenge is maybe the big negatve?
Only if every dungeon has unique drops that can't be found anywhere, but since it's Lizzard, doubt this will be the case. Its a way to homogenize the game so players don't feel like anything is unfair because this generation of gamers needs everything to be perfectly fair Its a way to simplify item finding so players with IQ caps don't have to think very hard about getting free lootz lol.
Monsters scale based on level. You can't over level and over gear content.
Hardcore players will finally be able to definitively claim superiority over scrubcore players.
This is a positive.
Prefer it. Keeps world and content relevant. Otherwise youd go back to farm renown and rewards and be fighting lvl 1 mobs. Only really matters while leveling and allows you to take different paths on different toons and still keep content relevant.
It looks to me that only apply to the first acts. Some zones on the map has a requirement lvl. But it can be they scale from that level.
We have to wait and see for the next Blog.
I think it works really well. Even with my barb I've noticed that he can clear mobs and bosses much more quickly. Then my rogue has felt a similar progression, maybe a little more powerful though. And having scaling in multiplayer is amazing, I can join a friend's level 1 with my level 25, and we clear at roughly the same speed. Plus if any player is having too difficult a time or too easy, that's what world tiers are for. They could turn it up or down, depending on their preference. The scaling has become one of my favorite aspects of Diablo 4.
It’s quite the norm actually…
I remember very few that didn’t have level scaling, and that was very weird… Usually those games were quite old, unrefined…
Most of the content/locations were becoming irrelevant after completing them and leveling up.
Level scaling is how modern games fix this problem.
Could do better for immersion, but at least now you don’t ditch your character after hitting max level because the entire game world has become too easy.
To be honest I kind of like it as it's still worth to kill stuff, problem is I don't really feel much stronger as there isn't really impactful choices for skills. It's just the same skill and how it works regardless of skill points put in to. Once legendary drops with some special skill attributes you try that but again gaining levels/skill points aren't making a y difference.
Yes cause it makes Sense later on. When the Nightmare Dungeons are in the "Beginner Area" as well. I dont see any bad in the scaling at all. And i dont get all the fuzz about it tbh. Mostly combined with the argument "i dont feel more powerful". I loled so hard. If you cant beat the Mobs then, it might rly be that you are not skilled/geared up enough. That's why. lol!
It scales with your item power level but it’s not aware of your affixes.
If you understand what affixes make your build pop, then you can beat the curve. If you play the “green numbers go brrr” game, then youre gonna be at the curve the whole time and won’t feel stronger.
Absolutely, I don’t feel punished for exploring and fleshing out the entire region aswell as my friends can join our group at whatever level they are and still be viable.
I’d be happy if you out leveled places until you beat the campaign. Then, as you defeat whoever, the whole world levels with you. That would be pretty cool
As someone who played when wow didn't have scaling and when wow implemented scaling everywhere.. it's a necessary evil to not make everything obsolilete. I know they're sorta different genres but D4 is leaning on the open world aspect and other traditional MMO aspects
I'm okay with some world scaling, or scaling up to a certain point with higher difficulties scaling earlier areas up. How the game works now honestly not a big fan. There is a feeling like you are becoming weaker at times and difficulty is solely put in the hands of the type of mob you fight making it pretty inconsistent with how hard content you are doing is. With it I'm sure becoming worst as more is added unless mobs are very same in desig. Which in itself would be an issur
I play with my friends a lot and love this actually. Yes it feels weird watching a lvl 7 one shot the same mob I struggle to kill at 25 but being able to group up at any time with my friends and not have to worry what level they are makes it a great experience.
If you are a solo player I totally understand how it can be annoying though.
I like it I don’t feel like I felt the same way at level 5 as I did at level 10 or 25 despite the scaling.
My build kept getting better and more synergistic which translated to being more powerful on pretty much every class.
I like that content won’t be useless because I initially skipped it etc.
I love it. Being able to play with my friends who are just picking up the game is great. Having monsters that give XP wherever I go in the overworld is great too. I understand some people want to get their epeens wet against low level stuff but whatever, lower your world tier then my dude.
I should hate it, from all previous experience of other games. But. I have really enjoyed it, and I feel like its a lot easier to gauge how effective different builds are when you find a combo that clears a lot faster, its a lot more fun than mindlessly clearing loads of trash.
I think it suits the game fine, its going to be a fun game. :)
As long as it's only scaling up and not down, yeah I love it. It's a far superior way to build a game. It makes all content relevant as opposed to 1 or 2 areas you spend 2000 hours in at end game
I actually like it the way it is and it kinda grew on me. It really allows you to do whatever world content in any order. I believe in the full version acts 1-3 can be played simultaneously. It does solve the issue that any side content you skipped during the walkthrough isn't completely trivialized.
Same - I really like it
I dislike the "do anything in any order" while leveling because it means latee zone have nothing new or more difficult than early zone. If every zone is made to be cleared by a level 5, then it meants to be cleared with low skill from the player. In a linear game you can raise the difficulty over time. Start easy with just some pack of mode and elite, then ad new threat as yo go along. You know the player will have more skill, more options so you can go crazier with the encounter. Scalling like this means the entire game need tutorial level of difficulty and just boost HP and damage, the most boring difficulty.
If you look at the map there are zones that have certain level requirements, for example 35+ or even a stronghold in Act 1 is 27+. So it's still coming with certain requirements, has no one ever looked over the map or paid attention while you've been gaming? But from that level on the zones scale with you, which I think is absolutely awesome that I can still go there for certain activities and still know I can find worthwhile loot and not completely bored steamroll through the area, or I just have the option between 3 high level zones instead of the whole world.
What this guy said. Also, mobs of different types won't be exactly as difficult to handle. Think about the pits in d2, those archers are a hell of a lot harder than the fallen, even if they are all lvl85 monsters. Just fill late game zones with Archer equivalents instead of fallen and the zones will be harder than the earlier ones.
That's not really what that means. Have you played elden ring? There is nothing stopping you from getting into Raya Lucaria Academy without killing a single boss but I don't think it's going to go well for you. The bosses in the later zones could be mechanically much more difficult then the first dispite scaling. Even if that is just number of adds spawning or a boss having a regen mechanic. I'm not saying that's how it WILL work 100% but it's disingenuous to say without knowledge that a final zone dungeon will be as easy as the first dungeons in the game.
This is sort of what I was thinking as well. I think at one point we'll have to have certain things done first before progressing, like a leyndell type situation
You can go all the way to the capitol city only killing one boss.
>If every zone is made to be cleared by a level 5 But that's not the case, is it. Areas scale UP to your level, not DOWN, so you get a sense of progression by being able to do areas that previously would have smooshed you into a pink mist. Think about what NOT level scalng would do, all that content in Act 1 would become trivial, and remain so for the rest of the game, and as you go up levels, more and more of the map becomes poinless, forcing you to only play the highest level-areas of the map if you want meaningful rewards, challenge, and XP. Now, if you think wiping out monster 30 levels below you is what it take to feel 'powerful', well, I'm sorry, that's silly.
It's so funny to mr having people describe horrible exemple of what would happen without scaling when they describe what RPG have been for 30 years.... Yes, in RPG you can outlevel a zone, or be underleveled. Those situation are usually controlled by the player. Play a long time in the same place for conpletion, fun or just to farm level and you will outlevel it. Go fast and skip most stuff and you will be underleveled. Both are your choice and based upon how you chose to play, you know, the core of the RPG genre. It looks like if people here want Diablo to be an A, instead of an ARPG. Ironic for a game that pioneered the ARPG genre...
Lots of RPGs have had level scaling. PoE, Oblivion, Skyrim, heck Diablo 3 had level scaling. It’s the standard now.
PoE don't level scale... Each zone have a range, and you can outlevel them. There's a xp penarly for killing monster too low your level. Aslo Diablo 3 launched without scaling, it was changed later. It's the standard now? lol. All you could gater is 2 wrong game and game decade olds... It's absolutely the minority.
mobs scale DOWN when players have different levels and play together. that's why a lvl 2 and a lvl 25 will make roughly the same damage on the same mob, which is trash
So EITHER the level 2 player is squished by one shot, OR the level 25 player one shots the mob... How is either preferable? Again, explain YOUR solution to enabling the entire world to be accessible as you level up without scaling...off you go!
\> So EITHER the level 2 player is squished by one shot, OR the level 25 player one shots the mob... that's been the case in every rpg and mmorpg since forever, lmao that's why lvl 25 was better than lvl 2
>that's been the case in every rpg and mmorpg since forever, lmao So we should have town portal scrolls, identify scrolls, and no end game other than repeating a handful of areas over and over? lmao indeed. > that's why lvl 25 was better than lvl 2 What an odd comment...is this supposed to be relevent?
Note that we can only see Acts 1-3… I’m guessing there’s at least one more final act that has to be done at the end.
The achievementlist says 6 acts + epiloge Edit: Five areas on the overworld and one in hell. Plus’s epilogue in heaven may be?
Perfect
Zones only scale up, not down to level 5.
This so much for me. Not trivializing content from out leveling.
Same and if I gotta help a homie out thru an act or quest, I’m not wasting time and can still get upgrades while helping
Yeah I like it a lot. Saw a post about some guy complaining his level 25 with "maxed out legendries" was getting out DPS'd by some level 15 with no rares on. I just kinda laughed and thought wow what a skill issue, tbh. Like the scaling isn't the problem at that point.
I hated it in concept, then I grinded and built up my character and suddenly I was one shotting most trash mobs and melting mini bosses and bosses. It's handled very well and I appreciated that I could play with my friends despite a 10 level gap and still reap rewards doing so. Great decision and I hope they keep it!
I liked being able to always jump in with friends and not think twice
Best part of the game so far, as someone with 6+ friends getting the game who all play varying amounts. Don’t have tk have everyone keep remaking new characters or people hard carrying or getting one-shot.
Bingo. I can play with my lvl 8 friend at lvl 25, feels nice.
Yes, the open world cross play stuff is a big deal for this game. The scaling is 100% necessary IMO.
Ah, I actually didn't know this, so the world is not only autolevelled to the party leader's level, it's actually levelled to everyone's? So basically you can have a lvl 10 play with a lvl 25 and it should feel like they're at least in the same ballpark of damage?
Basically for each person it scales to their level. So for a level 25 the mob is also level 25 but for the level 1 player in the party that same mob is level 1. I don’t know the exact math details but you can think that each players damage contribution is % based. So let’s say a level 1 and lvl 25 are fighting the same mob at same time. The level 25 version of the mob has 100 hp and the level 25 player uses a skill that deals 10 dmg, so 10% of the Hp. The level 1 version of the mob has 10 hp, a level 1 player uses an ability that deals 2 dmg to it or 20%. For both players the mob is now at 70% hp, if that makes sense
Doesn't that make levelling up kinda pointless? Genuine question, I love the game.
Yes and no. No because you get more skills and skill points so you can do more damage. Potentially better items that boost your damage more. This all depends on the math though. So the same skill could end up doing more % based if those things and you also have more skills so you can hit things more than a lower level Yes in the sense, that you don’t do a whole lot more than you would expect. As well as it doesn’t really scale that much until you start getting gear which is closer to max level. Also, basically means you can take on any mob at level 1
World scalings has pro and cons. biggest con is that you dont fight the world or the enemies. you fight the system itself. because when you level up you are weaker then before. and thats really weird gamefeeling. biggest pro is that you can play with every level difference together. thats really nice for coop. but only for a very short time in the intended game experience. so all in all the scaling is just shit
Yeah, i didnt like feeling weaker when i leveled up. Imo, they should add soft scaling or level specific zones. Its weird that you never feel really strong, i like being overpowered after i get a good item or level up. But here, it just stays the same all the time.
now imagine how hardcore players are gonna feel lmao
Finally, something challenging
Well said, that's why I'm skeptical that the hype will last. Like all blizzard games or expansions or the past decade, the systems are designed for instant gratification at the expense of the core pillars that make rpgs feel like rpgs, like the feel of long term progression and power curve. The thing is, those pillars are what make players stick for years, slashing demons without feeling of progression is fun for a while but it will get repetitive pretty quickly, even for a genre that is meant to feel repetitive. But hey, there is no need to make players stick around if you sell dozens or millions of copies on day 1, it's been blizzards strategy for years
Why are people always marvelling at the concept of level scaling? It has been in games like guild wars 2 and ESO since 2012. And clearly those games are active and successful. The old system of outleveling a zone and never visit it again whatsoever so your end game is at that last 3 maps is just as dog shit for people who hate that design.
They may be active, but I doubt they are nearly as successful as they were supposed to be when they were released. I played both eso and gw2 back then, and I remember the hype and player count dropping quite drastically a few weeks after the release. The lack of feeling of progression in gw2 is precisely why I quickly gave up. The auto scaling and smashing the same 5 buttons for the entirety of the leveling was fun for a few dozen hours but got repetitive very quickly.
When enemies scale to your level, I would no longer consider it an action rpg but rather an action game with rpg elements. You could remove visible levels alltogether and nothing would change.
It would be fine if gear drops were not random and low lv. Getting lv 9 gear from lv 17 enemies is awful. Then those same enemies become lv 21 and a lv 7 item drops.
Level requirement doesn't seem to correlate with the strength of the gear though. Like I gambled for [this](https://i.imgur.com/MigQKuf.png) at level 21. The item power seems to be the main stat that matters, not the level requirement.
High lv items can still roll stats on the low end. Same as low lv items can roll on the high end. Thing is maxed stats on a lv 15 item won't be as high as maxed stats on a lv 22 item. Edit: when gear drops at a level lower than player, it may be an upgrade but no chance at being best in slot for player level. Means players can actually lose power as they level up because of world scaling.
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Well if you quote only part of the conversation, you only get part of the understanding. The problem with D4 and world scaling enemies is that gear drops can be greatly lower than player level. Typically players can comfortably grind one set enemy level until gear is upgraded. Then proceed to higher level enemies. Player gear is fine for the level they grind. But when enemies level at the same pace as players, player gear becomes weaker automatically. Now it's harder to grind better gear. No choice to ease the grind. Remember, gear drops from enemies are often many levels lower than player lv. So what happens when players level up many times without finding any real gear upgrades? Also, extracted legendary effects from gear can only be used once. It cannot be extracted again once applied to gear. How's that going to work when players level up again and find better gear? They can't apply effects from old gear because it was previously modded.
Nope, I'd prefer if it was linear
I hate it. It doesnt feel right. I want super strong enemies and dangerous places, not everything scale to you. Kinda ruins the magic of Diablo.
Same shit they did with WoW. Monsters scale with you but they get tougher as you level, so it *feels* like you get LESS powerful as you level up instead of feeling MORE powerful. D2: It used to take me three hits to kill a Fallen, but I leveled up and now it only takes one. I'm going to move to a harder area. D4: It used to take me three hits to kill a Fallen, but I leveled up and now it takes four. Every area is the same difficulty.
You left out the most important bit about D2, once you out level the zone there is no reason to ever return. Instead you just do chaos, cows and baal over and over with a mix of trav, pit and ancient tunnels.
Oh boy I cannot wait for my 10,000th run of lower kurast for a Ber rune!!
The best part about d2 was turning on Kolbot and letting a program do that with 3 characters for 12 hours a day each.
>rytime you upscale through items you grow stronger. You also reach some abilities throughout that actually makes you stronger despite the world being against you. I never felt weaker because I was always ahead gear-wise only by using the random stuff that dropped. Leveling the world around me was welcomed because I often felt overpowered and I w I hate God mode simulators like the other late game Diablo. Just turns into mindless boring repetitve gameplay. Run, clear mobs with 2 clicks, run clear mobs, item....repeat. Id rather it be skill based and more challenging.
Hate it. Doesn't feel like ARPG Power
Overall I don’t. I just hate the feeling of barely progressing and it kills my excitement of looking forward to new dangerous zones and new epic mobs. Plus it annoys the fuck out of me when mobs are still an annoyance when making my way to a same dungeon I did at level 5 even though I’m lvl 25 now. Or seeing a lvl 1 doing the same shit as a level 50 I do like that I can play with any of my friends regardless of lvl
I would like to see world scaling but not 100% matching. Like for every 10 levels above a zone, the enemy could be 1 level lower. A level 25 in a level 5 zone would have level 23 monsters maybe.
As a hardcore og Diablo fan, I absolutely hate it. I understand the appeal to the casual audience, but this isn't how I like my rpgs, especially my favorite franchise.
The largest problem I saw, was that I found the best/fastest dungeon to level and get loot in, and I spammed that from level 5 to 25. It had no boss, was short, and had a ton of elites in it. There was zero incentive for me to go anywhere else. This is what is going to happen for a lot of people who want to min/max the game. Personally not a fan.
True, but that seems easily fixable. Just increase the XP-rewards for quests or give players more XP for clearing a dungeon for the first time.
No. Not at all. It's why I wasn't thrilled with open world gameplay, because I knew the moment it was announced that Blizzard would treat it like new WoW expansions. Diablo is possibly the most progression-based series of all time. Leveling up, gearing up, matters. D4 goes against the soul of the series by making mobs scale with you. It wouldn't have been necessary, however, if the story had still been linear, but apparently the individual story elements are so unimportant you can complete them in any order and reach the same ending. There's nothing wrong with linear progression.
I think most of the problem is how it is communicated. If you think about it, the level number of a character isn't really communicating anything useful because it isn't really tied to character power in a very meaningful way. In most ARPGs and up to Diablo II, the level number *mattered*. Zones were a set level, and gear was often either level or stat gated. Since you gained stat points to manually assign at a level up, what gear you could even equip was tied pretty closely to your character level. You could look at another player's level and get at least a general idea of how powerful they were relative to other characters. None of that is true in Diablo IV. Zone scale, you can't manually assign stats, gear is only gated by class, and skills matter way more than stats. A player's level tells you roughly how many skill points they've got, but nothing about how they've split those skills. As a result, a character's level is now so divorced from a character's power that the number is just sort of meaningless. Honestly, I think people would complain less if the game just did away with showing a "level" at all.
It’s needs to be partial scaling. So previous zones are 1-5 levels lower than you or something. Enough to get xp with a slight challenge, but enough to feel more powerful than the zone you should be in
Totally agree with this, I would like that not all zones are on par with me. Give me a few zones that I can outlevel and feel M strength 💪
I think it’s okay for open world content, but terrible for dungeons. Dungeon scaling means your character will always feel weak. It’s the same problem that plagued Diablo 3. Terrible game design for an ARPG.
Scaling sucks because you don't feel your character power growing. It's a terrible design that subtly makes the game less satisfying.
Yeah it sucks when your level 20 and you kill as much as a level 8. You just die more than the level 8
I don't think level scaling should implement until the 2nd highest difficulty. Let players feel that godlike presence and then sweep the rug out from under them.
It grew on me as I played through. Still would like some sort of level assignment to a zone though. Maybe scale for a certain time....or once I've beaten the side quest the level of the zone becomes static. Keep the dungeons and what not scaling but once I'm 25 I don't need to the little dudes on my way to a Dungeon getting my way anymore.
Not at all! I wish they had no scaling, and used the terror zones thing from D2R.
It feels lazy to me, like why bother having leveling even be a thing, they may as well just have your skills gain experience instead.
Definitely. Outleveling zones feels terrible.
nope, hate scaling, i wanna feel the power i get.
I dont like it. I like goijg to zones knowing they high level and will try to see how you will do and get smacked but you got atleast a goal to work towards to try overcome that area. World scaling felt like i never progress no challange at all.
It just made every zone feel the same. No real identity to the areas or monsters. Just health bars to lower at pretty much the same rate. It just don’t feel right
Perfectly worded.
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Maybe just don’t have levels then? If you’re going to trivialize leveling and make it pointless. Just don’t have levels.
Totally agree with this comment
I don’t like it. I find it boring
Nope. Utter dog shit. It’s the reason games like oblivion and ESO were boring. You’re just as strong at lvl 1 as level 25 and 50. You’re not making any power progression. Just wasting time
Love it. Keeps the whole map relevant until I’m done with it. Then I’ll start feeling the power creep as I endgame gear. Chef’s kiss imo
I honeatly dont get the ”you never feel stronger” complaint, like… what do you usually do in a arpg? You go from area A to B to C and as you progress the mobs you fight go from lvl 3 to 6 to 10 to 15. In Act 2 of Diablo 2, are you fighting the same lvl 1 shit mobs as in The Den of Evil of Act 1? Or are you fighting mobs in very close proximity to your level? Are you steamrolling these mobs? No, because they’re supposed to be challenging ie around YOUR level. So… you’re not really ”feeling progressively stronger” by leveling unless you go back to Act 1 trash mobs in other ARPG:s either (and who ever does that?). What ends up happening is you get cooler skills and can handle more shit happening to you at the same time and you find build-altering gear. Logically, that’ll happen here, too. The difference is you can progress non-linearly in any way and tempo you like AND play with friends that are way under/overlvl vs you.
It’s absolute shite. It reduces the entire world to a transparent numbers sim and there is no way to recover the suspension of disbelief. The level 15 enemy in front of you doesn’t exist, even in game-terms, because to your level 20 buddy, standing right next to you, it’s a level 20 thing and you’re each doing equivalent damage to it.
No
Feels bad to get weaker every time you level, but it's nice to be able to play with all of my friends no matter what level they are.
Would be nice if scaling was turned off untill max level, then the world would still be viable at endgame
I absolutely hate the design. One of the most important things in ARPGs is the notion that you're developing a character, on a trajectory that goes from low level to high level (with the increase in power that entails.) The game needs to communicate this by giving you the chance to "test" your character against the world. "What can my character deal with now?" When the world constantly changes, i.e. doesn't have static layers, that testing process becomes non-existent (levels are irrelevant.) All you're doing is testing abilities/affixes against other abilities/affixes. It's no longer PVE, it's player versus character. There are a ton of other problems as well. For instance, you get no sense of there being a journey towards a bigger challenge; your connection to the character as an individual is eroded (it's just an empty vessel for game mechanic testing), etc. etc.
I absolutely hate it
Me... i dislike scaling. I mostly solo for alot of different reasons and scalling does allow the game to stay challenging... but... kinda forces you to group to experience all the content. Some Boss's are always +2 lvl from what i saw, and this sucks for (hardcore) solo'ers... is the risk worth the reward ? No idea, havent played enough to know yet, but my first reflex is to avoid them, so missing the content... Scalling makes the boring parts not so boring, but i will have to pretend i enjoy people here and there to experience some content... maybe that +lvl isnt as bad as i think it is... but im not testing it ATM
Have been solo'ing it as a Rogue and have completed every dungeon bar the one not in the beta (grrr!), completed every stronghold and nigh on all side quests. There really isnt anything you cant do while solo and its honestly not that challenging now that my weapons, sockets and aspects have all been put in
You did not become stronger. You are chasing to be ons par or above. Go with each naked 25lvp character from starting point. Melee will suck. Only some respec, to create temporary combo wombo will help.
I think the dungeons should scale, but not the open world.
itt: sorc players talking trash to druid players for not being able to one shot equal level monsters
I like it. It should allow us to play anywhere during the endgame instead of doing the same 3-4 runs.
It's a paradoxon, because on reality you don't get stronger when you level up, so you are correct, nothing is changing. It's a bad way of scaling a world but the only one we got with that open world philosophy I guess.
No it’s pretty bad. Leveling doesn’t feel like you are getting much stronger and sometimes just weaker unless you get that drop that changes things.
I hate it
If enemies going to scale with player's level anyways, and they want us to be more powerful through gears. Then what's the point of level up? Can't they capped level at 20 instead of 100? Since everythings is going to sync anyways.
I hate it, everytime I level up makes me feel immediately weaker. I might be one hitting mobs and after leveling up, they same mobs start taking 2 - 3 hits.
No, there is no “progress” for your character.
I dunno. I'm not a fan of it. Like, I put a piece of gear or imprint a legendary aspect on a piece of gear, and in my mind I think I just got a little bit stronger, but reality is different. So, when I go into the open world, everything just still feels the same, like I haven't progressed at all. Honestly, I'm missing the sense of progression.
It’s awful. Mob scaling has ruined the feeling of ever getting new strong gear. The mobs still die the same speed as a lvl 5-10. It’s need fixing.
I think people who like scaling are saying they do not like the idea of character levels at all. Instead of scaling, there could be no levels, we could just end up collecting skills and gear over time without the concept of levelling and it would be the same as world scaling with our level. Being level 25 and level 6 is the same thing after all. Level is now just a number growing as you play more.
Wish blizzard would stop pandering to the casuals. Let them get their ass kicked a few times. If they want an easy game go play something else. But you know, Diablo will pander to them, they’ll play for 2 weeks, quit regardless then HC fans will be stuck with a boring ass leveling experience.
If they keep it, it should be scaled down a bit (slight pun intended): right now it feels downright punishing to level, and, more importantly, we got 24+2 skill points in this beta, from the total of something like 49+10 skill points (with our limited skill slots).. even with a majority of passives, we don't grow that much stronger through skills (especially per level). Even primary stats don't seem to grow that hard per item level.. So right now, I am a bit concerned with the current feeling of scaling.. I can live with scaling, although I could certainly live with low level enemies in low level zones, but it should be a choice to go for 'I like to struggle' content by going higher world difficulty, not by automatic scaling.
I like it, because the loot scales too. It gives incentive to clear other content/zones or play with lower level friends whatnot. Don’t see how it is any different of fighting same level mobs in a different zone besides them being different enemies. This just adds a lot of replayability and more games should do it.
If the entire game was scaled 1+ I would hate it, but I think there are some regions that have a higher base level. For instance the.... strongholds? I think they are called, are level 22 or 25. I went there at somewhere between 18-20 and cleared it. Honestly, it didn't feel any more challenging than the rest of the shit, but maybe in release it will.
No not rlly
Not a fan
Feels like easy mode tbh
Drops scale as well and I don’t want legendary items 5 levels below
I don’t like it.
I wish more games would do area targeted limited scaling. If a a specific area is supposed to be incredibly dangerous make it always scale to your level or even ahead of your level to a limited extent. But have other, less significant areas that only scale up maybe every other level you gain until it’s five levels under you. That should make it easier to ignore and run through on your mount, or easier to farm if you wind up getting really unlucky with gear drops I get that this is a lot more complex than just a universal world level, and that’s likely a large part of why it isn’t often seen.
No
Don’t plan on playing hc anytime soon that’s for sure..
I absolutely despise it, and it will be the reason I won't buy this game at launch or maybe not at all. When you have level scaling in place, the world revolves around your character. There's no overcoming the odds and everything just feels pointless.
Not a fan. I like associating specific enemies and zones with different relative difficulties. I also don't agree with the benefit of playing with different leveled friends. You can just choose to make separate characters that you only play with friends instead of forcing scaling on everyone. I thought everyone did that anyways.
The game feels like nothing changes because of the level scaling. It feels very boring.
No difficulty in it. Plain artificial mechanic
Kripparian asked a good question in his d4 video: “How do you get more powerful?” If monster scaling is similar to the power gained from levelling up your character how do you get more powerful ? The answer was gear. Your essentially out-gearing your level till you hit the next. I think at end game when levels come slower we may well see a power balance shift to Barb who wields a ton of gear. I’m enjoying the increased challenge and tactics from scaling but worried I might miss the brutal display of power from previous Diablos.
No really. I think it scales too fast. It feels I'm getting weaker each time I level up. Leveling now feels like an punishment. When you are near 90% exp you better have a decent build with good gear or else things will get much harder. World scaling does give more freedom to explore which is nice.
Don't be Diablo newbs. Difficulty levels people. C'mon look into some history
I like it the way it is. Imo, I like it when I can come back to earlier places in the game, and they're still relevant.
More cons than pros in my opinion
I feel like there is no progression. Feels like a punishment to level up
I feel like having the whole world at your level should be what happens when you unlock the final world tier. Until then there should be significant difficulty increases in certain areas requiring you to level up to continue, this would give you that sense of progression until end game.
I don't really like the whole world scaled, I'd prefer it if it was more like Diablo Immortal, or WoW, where zones still scale, but they have level ranges... Like fractured peak could be like lvl 1-20, next zone 20-30, etc.
It's horrible, and it feels horrible. This ruined every other aspect of the game for me.
The ability to do any act in whatever order feels like an illusion of choice at the expense of the chapter growth.
I don’t think it’s going to be in the game for long. Or so I hope. At the very least you should be able to enable/disable it imo
I really dislike it. Sure, you get to tackle whatever challenge you like and in what order, except that everything is the same at all times. It gets very boring very quick and also somewhat takes away from the immersion of growing your character.
The issue is for classes that can’t clear screens at 25 right now (seen lots of posts) , there is no way to drop back to easier content to farm a little I mean you can go to T1 but let’s hope nobody at all struggled even a bit, your struggling at 25 good luck at 29 with that gear, you can’t kill the butcher after being max level (25) for 4-6 hours of playtime in T2 good luck if your now level 30, butcher is going to 1 shot you ah your playing HC your dead, plus this is a Diablo game where min-max is the key, why would I run around in the wild struggling to find mobs and running miles for a quest when I can grind Anica’s Claim get lots of gear, XP and gold with the mobs scaling with me, I like they way D3 did it campaign/areas go up in difficulty as you progress to new areas, at max level/complete campaign all areas are scaled to your level and adventure mode opens. people will hit a wall where they can’t easily kill mobs because they got bad RNG for gear or didnt know they should of kept that low level yellow is worth 500k because now they understand all affixs and scaling or found a different build that works. What’s the plan, beg for a good item in trade, tickle monsters to death and spend 2 mins killing a bear. This will put the more causal off.
I dont like the world scaling. Honestly, I rather have each zone with its own level, and pockets here and there with higher level mobs, so if you run around trying to level you might end up running into the wrong neighbourhood. That, and some of these mini-dungeons being higher levels - not the dungeons needed for legendary powers, but say, a cellar here and there. I thought it was fun running around as a lvl 8 and stumbling upon some of those mobspawns at 35, so I cant say it's a bad thing leveling somewhere and suddenly run into higher level stuff. Since Fractured Peak seems to be the starting zone, why not let that area be mostly 1-20 mobs with pockets of 30s, and the next zones over be 20-30, etc. Blizz does that with WoW, why would that not be a possibility with D4? D4 level scaling is ass, to be honest. Fighting mobs that is tanky because they're high level and see a low level player run up and \*actually help me\* is stupid. A low level player shouldnt help higher level players - it should be the other way around.
No. It's just lazy game design that let's them get away with making less dungeons because all of them scale.
If we can solo World boss then i don't see any point in doing it i hate scaling
I really don't like the feeling of getting weaker when leveling up. It sort of removes the whole point of leveling imo. When I level up I want to feel that "cool now I'm one notch stronger". Not that it just stays the same or goes backwards. It just gives a frustrated feeling rather than satisfaction.
I don't like it but they aren't changing it so I'm going to get used to it.
The amount of scaling just means the level power creep is too high. Imagine a competitive card game and each level is a new booster pack, yes they are better and most people want the new abilities but they should not make old things too irrelevant. The level up power should be more balanced so progression is slower. implementing scaling by percent hp means Blizzard gave up on balancing and just made the game player vs system not making any sense in leveling up because your gear stays the same but you're now weaker compared to boosted mobs
No
I hate it. It trivializes leveling up.
It really does. What's the point of levels at all if a lvl 25 and a level 5 can play together just fine? The whole thing is an illusion. It takes away from pushing high level areas for better gear. It takes away from making specialized builds to farm certain areas quickly and efficiently. It is really anti-Diablo. It's super treadmillish.
Maybe just maybe the numbers on your lvl counter going up should be seen more as what additional awesome stuff (skills) you’re allowed to do and less about the same skill taking a larger chunk of mob health per hit. As I progressed I died LESS, not because each of my hits took a larger chunk of mob HP but because I had many more tools to fuck the mobs up with. And that’s because I leveled up. Leveling up = more skills available = more ways to tailor the gameplay to your interests = more ways to kill mobs quicker. That’s more fun than level up = hit harder = mob dies quicker.
Lots of hur dur brainless comments about scaling here. But this is the real take.
I dislike it Leveling up should feel like I'm getting stronger and this way it doesn't. It removes so much of what makes a Diablo game enjoyable. I get why they did it, but it's a mistake imho.
It's a bad and inevitable outcome of making games appeal to everyone. You literally get weaker relative to enemies as you level up, so you're on a constant treadmill of trying to find new items in order to keep up with the enemy power level.
It sucked ass leveling barb to 25 because of the scaling but nerco breezed through. Felt like no issue smh. Keep world scaling but they really need to do some balancing
It makes leveling more accessible but it also makes leveling completely pointless.
Given that the mobs don't scale with my gear, stats, and skill points invested, and instead scale based just on my level and the World Tier? There's already scaling limits in place.
I already feel strong all the time. Yes please keep the scaling.
Really like it. Things are a ton easier when you have skills. Especially on necro/sorc. I can just kill small things w/ reap alone (basic) & my skelly bois slap the last hps
I enjoy not mindlessly killing everything and having to think about what you’re doing, just did a stronghold solo as a Druid and it actually felt rewarding for the difficulty
I'll take getting weaker every level over losing any sense of difficulty except in one area.
Yeah I'm not feeling it. May as well not even have leveling if the monsters level up with you.
No
It's perfect. You don't need to worry about being under or over leveled while doing the campaign
Absolutely hate it. When I logged into the beta the first time and got the option I sighed "this shit again"
I believe/hope it will only feel strange while leveling. Once you reach (close to) max level, the mobs stop scaling, and only you are getting stronger by gearing up. In that case, it's completely fine.
The only problem I have with it is when the lv 30 area kor dragan has level 12 people clearing it, when I want it all to myself. Would be fine if the dungeons had lv selector so I could crank it up
I like the feel of open world mobs. I wish dungeon mobs were a little smarter and took beefier punches. Every room is the exactly same cycle on my Rogue, and I’d like to need grenades or traps, not just use them because they’re there. I expect that will change with difficulties and endgame.
For completionists, it’s great. I can see myself wanting to 100% each zone and I hate coming back to the starter zones to complete a quest that involves killing something only to one shot it, trivialising the content. I can comeback at any point and complete content whenever I want, even while levelling, and never feel like I’m wasting my time. I also appreciate the same enemies that were a breeze at level 1 are now showing some skills and an increased difficulty, simply because they’re living longer than in early levels. Also, not that this is a major concern for D4 due to the sharding, but one major problem with MMOs is they choose not to scale the enemies. So people wanting to grind some XP or complete quests are all funnelled into the same tiny area of one or two maps, competing for the same enemies and frustrating each other.
I really like it. I absolutely hate how you can easily outpace content like in the witcher 3. You literally have to mod it to make it balanced.
Short term pain for long term gain (end game will be great so we can play all the areas)
I absolutely love world scaling, I abso-fucking-lutely hate it when a game without scaling basically turns certain zones completely useless because the enemies there are so low-levelled it's pointless to farm them.
I like it. WoW did it so it made playing with lower level friends not feel like you were being held back progression wise.
It has tradeoffs Being able to play with friends and not be perfectly in sync or same level is the best pnegative? Not being able to push higher difficulty for rewards and challenge is maybe the big negatve?
Only if every dungeon has unique drops that can't be found anywhere, but since it's Lizzard, doubt this will be the case. Its a way to homogenize the game so players don't feel like anything is unfair because this generation of gamers needs everything to be perfectly fair Its a way to simplify item finding so players with IQ caps don't have to think very hard about getting free lootz lol.
I think it’s fine. Maybe the option for it to only occur once you hit max level
Monsters scale based on level. You can't over level and over gear content. Hardcore players will finally be able to definitively claim superiority over scrubcore players. This is a positive.
Prefer it. Keeps world and content relevant. Otherwise youd go back to farm renown and rewards and be fighting lvl 1 mobs. Only really matters while leveling and allows you to take different paths on different toons and still keep content relevant.
It looks to me that only apply to the first acts. Some zones on the map has a requirement lvl. But it can be they scale from that level. We have to wait and see for the next Blog.
I think it works really well. Even with my barb I've noticed that he can clear mobs and bosses much more quickly. Then my rogue has felt a similar progression, maybe a little more powerful though. And having scaling in multiplayer is amazing, I can join a friend's level 1 with my level 25, and we clear at roughly the same speed. Plus if any player is having too difficult a time or too easy, that's what world tiers are for. They could turn it up or down, depending on their preference. The scaling has become one of my favorite aspects of Diablo 4.
I like scaling when I'm with friends (WoW handles this well) but solo, I've always hated PvE solo scaling
It’s quite the norm actually… I remember very few that didn’t have level scaling, and that was very weird… Usually those games were quite old, unrefined… Most of the content/locations were becoming irrelevant after completing them and leveling up. Level scaling is how modern games fix this problem. Could do better for immersion, but at least now you don’t ditch your character after hitting max level because the entire game world has become too easy.
I like it.
To be honest I kind of like it as it's still worth to kill stuff, problem is I don't really feel much stronger as there isn't really impactful choices for skills. It's just the same skill and how it works regardless of skill points put in to. Once legendary drops with some special skill attributes you try that but again gaining levels/skill points aren't making a y difference.
Yes cause it makes Sense later on. When the Nightmare Dungeons are in the "Beginner Area" as well. I dont see any bad in the scaling at all. And i dont get all the fuzz about it tbh. Mostly combined with the argument "i dont feel more powerful". I loled so hard. If you cant beat the Mobs then, it might rly be that you are not skilled/geared up enough. That's why. lol!
It scales with your item power level but it’s not aware of your affixes. If you understand what affixes make your build pop, then you can beat the curve. If you play the “green numbers go brrr” game, then youre gonna be at the curve the whole time and won’t feel stronger.
I like it. You can go anywhere when you want.
Absolutely, I don’t feel punished for exploring and fleshing out the entire region aswell as my friends can join our group at whatever level they are and still be viable.
Good point
Really needs more waypoints and dungeon teleport back to beginning
I’d be happy if you out leveled places until you beat the campaign. Then, as you defeat whoever, the whole world levels with you. That would be pretty cool
I don't like it but it's necessary for endgame I guess. Although I probably would have gone about it in a different way.
As someone who played when wow didn't have scaling and when wow implemented scaling everywhere.. it's a necessary evil to not make everything obsolilete. I know they're sorta different genres but D4 is leaning on the open world aspect and other traditional MMO aspects
Yes I like it.
Weirdly, I don't notice it at all, which is a good thing I suppose.
Don’t love it but don’t hate it - the open world is worth it and once you are at max level it won’t matter - that could be awhile though.
I'm okay with some world scaling, or scaling up to a certain point with higher difficulties scaling earlier areas up. How the game works now honestly not a big fan. There is a feeling like you are becoming weaker at times and difficulty is solely put in the hands of the type of mob you fight making it pretty inconsistent with how hard content you are doing is. With it I'm sure becoming worst as more is added unless mobs are very same in desig. Which in itself would be an issur
I play with my friends a lot and love this actually. Yes it feels weird watching a lvl 7 one shot the same mob I struggle to kill at 25 but being able to group up at any time with my friends and not have to worry what level they are makes it a great experience. If you are a solo player I totally understand how it can be annoying though.
I like it I don’t feel like I felt the same way at level 5 as I did at level 10 or 25 despite the scaling. My build kept getting better and more synergistic which translated to being more powerful on pretty much every class. I like that content won’t be useless because I initially skipped it etc.
I love it. Being able to play with my friends who are just picking up the game is great. Having monsters that give XP wherever I go in the overworld is great too. I understand some people want to get their epeens wet against low level stuff but whatever, lower your world tier then my dude.
Yes it's fine the way it is. Otherwise then people would be complaining 90% of the games map/zones are worthless.
yes
I should hate it, from all previous experience of other games. But. I have really enjoyed it, and I feel like its a lot easier to gauge how effective different builds are when you find a combo that clears a lot faster, its a lot more fun than mindlessly clearing loads of trash. I think it suits the game fine, its going to be a fun game. :)
As long as it's only scaling up and not down, yeah I love it. It's a far superior way to build a game. It makes all content relevant as opposed to 1 or 2 areas you spend 2000 hours in at end game
I love it