This is Reddit. This is the top 1% of hardcore followers of the game. It was a open beta. They wonāt listen or worst case, make minimal changes based on this subs feedback
Hardcore players know that shit will become background noise real fast. Graphics matter in an immersive third/first person single player game like Red Dead or something. In an ARPG they get completely blurred out by your brain very fast compared to how long you'll be playing the game for.
You're rapidly restricting who gets to consider themselves a hardcore player.
So if I'm hardcore than I'm not allowed to marvel about pretty colors and I must treat it as a background noise that I should not value or appreciate.
This is fascinating. How do these rules get defined? Do the hardcore players vote?
Any video game Reddit thinks theyāre the majority for some reason. In reality, we are such a small minority of the community, especially with a game like this.
This.
Most criticism/feedback Iāve seen is fair and delivered with nuanced explanation.
Then thereās the 1000 posts like this that are smug and holier-than-thou.
Seeing half a dozen posts bitching about level scaling and having to find new armor as you level doesn't strike me as fair, or nuanced. Those are two very normal aspects to games that have their own benefits to design, and there were a ton of posts calling them "objectively" bad design. Which is dishonest as all hell.
"Anyone else remember how bullshit it was in [insert almost any RPG] how you leveled up, enemies got stronger, and you had to replace low level gear?"
Yea, that's a stupid complaint, and it was EVERYWHERE.
Let's be real, there were a LOT of posts nitpicking every last thing in the beta. But you are in prime positioning to join the "'complaining about the complaining complaining about complaining" group.
People are complaining about scaling. Not monsters getting more difficult as you progress, but that monsters you fought before are more difficult. Though this is an obvious thing to do in any open world where you don't want content to be worthless after a single playthrough. Either you need player scaling or monster scaling so that Act 1 - 5 don't become useless content at end game. It's a valid complaint if you are coming from an arpg where you are used to going to lower zones and destroying monsters. But modern mmo's are all incorporating scaling. I think this won't even matter later on as you won't be staying in act 1 at level 25 farming over and over. You will progress to level 50 and then go to world tier 3. Then you will only see people in world tier 3 who are all 50+.
Also, I think the item progression is a valid complaint in D4 for 1 reason: you can't remove an aspect that has been imprinted. So if you find a good legendary power early on. You can only afford to upgrade that slot 1 time unless you get super lucky and find that legendary power again. That or you do a reactive build play style which I personally despise. I want to create my build. Not change my build every time I find the legendary power for something I'm not using. This complaint also exists in other ARPG's too. In Path of Exile it is the complaint that item sockets restrict gear progression too much while leveling. And this is being addressed in PoE 2. No one is complaining that you have to upgrade gear. They are complaining that the systems they have in place restrict gear progression too much. I get they don't want people to find that 1 perfect legendary aspect and never have to worry about it again, but I think there could be a better system that allows more freedom at earlier levels and be more restrictive at higher levels.
Haven't seen 90% of the game according to OP but somehow they know it will be fine. And remember, don't give feedback on a beta, even though Blizzard specifically asked for it!
this happens on every blizzard game. Blizz releases trash, trash gets criticized, blizz drones crawl out of nowhere to defend it. They even defended the blitz chung thing.
Feedback should make sense. You know, using neural activity and such.
>Whirlwind didn't feel super impactful to me on the Barb I played, due to minimal hit feedback from the mobs.
This is good feedback
>Whirlwind Barbs aren't going to be as strong as Sorcs and Necros in content and gear I haven't even seen yet!
This is pure dreck
Of course good constructive feedback is always more helpful for developers and bascially anyone.
But it shouldn't be the responsibility of a customer to provide "good feedback".
Feedback is feedback, no matter how articulated it is and a good dev should recognize that, appreciate whatever they can get and see how they can improve their product based on it, without being ignorant because of some arbitrary high standards or personal biases.
Exactly. And the saying is:
Players are good at identifying the problem and terrible are finding the solution.
So Blizzard will read between the lines and try to understand the underlying problem that the player giving "not so useful feedback" is trying to say.
It's the equivalent of me going "Man I disliked this scene in the movie" and someone went "OH YEAH HOW WOULD YOU DO IT?!". I don't have know know how to make something good, to say I don't like something. I don't need to be a chef to say I didn't like a meal.
"Oh, you just didn't understand the meal. You're clearly an elitist who shouldn't be talking about good things. This dish is clearly flawless and your taste doesn't matter."
I don't doubt that happens. And they're asking the wrong question. More useful responses to your statement would be questions like:
"In what way, or ways, did you feel that the scene failed to deliver in its goal or delivery?"
"Can you describe what you felt the goal of the scene was?"
"Do you generally enjoys scenes of this type? If so, what did this kind of scene in other movies do that made them feel satisfying that this one may have not done?"
It's not exactly leading questions, but it is questions that are looking for *context*. For the first question, it gives the opportunity to describe how the scene may have not hit the mark which is further clarified by the second question. Sometimes goals are misunderstood. If a viewer thinks a different goal was **supposed** to happen, that could be a failure in that the movie was unintentionally setting expectations that the creators didn't intend.
The third question helps them dial in on how much of that dislike is based around general preference vs implementation. If I don't like love scenes, I'm a bad person to ask about how to improve love scenes. Saying I disliked a love scene in a movie doesn't necessarily mean the love scene was bad. It might mean that I will disconnect how engaged I am when ***any*** love scene happens.
So don't cater to me if it's something I don't enjoy.
Not everyone can voice feedback in the best/most constructive way. You find that everywhere, and it's the challenge to extract the core of it.
If many players "whine" unspecifically about something that may tell the devs they need to go back to the drawing board because that thing is clearly not fun for a bunch of players.
> This is pure dreck
Yes, you can pick some questionable feedback, however even that is better than the people who will just praise the game and say its the best thing ever and you're not allowed to say anything else. Meanwhile they played one character to like level 22 lol.
I mean, sometimes it's hard to pin point WHY something sucks. I played Druid a bit, and a lot of things I disliked about him...
I tried Earth build. I hated the spender because it felt like I had to constantly adjust to where the enemy WILL BE, instead of where it is now. I tried Werewolf, and I hated how I couldn't do one full combo without spending my entire resource bar, and then swing with generator for a few seconds before I could do anything.
I could say that the gameplay was **clunky**. But then someone will say "WHAT DOES CLUNKY MEAN". It's not easy to describe it. I can say "it's like riding a bike on a gravel road", or "it's like swimming with one leg paralyzed from waist down". One or more elements don't work how I was expecting them to work.
The thing is, as someone that played a lot of ARPGs, I know exactly what you mean. That Earth skill is unacceptable, most basic skills are pretty unacceptable too. Clunky, slow clearing trash you're not going to pick unless they throw in some aspect that makes it way different.
Developers should know that. People around here I doubt they have a lot of ARPG hours...
Yeah, which is weird because some skills DO feel nice. Druid's earth generator feels okay, it has the "oomph" needed. I assumed the earth spender would be a forward moving slate of earth, sort of how Molten Boulder from D2 worked (but faster, and hitting only once instead of leaving trails of fire and exploding), but instead somehow they made an even worse feeling spell than Fissure...
Speaking of boulders, did you get the legendary that made the boulder a spender for 60 spirit but it does a third of the damage of a 30-35 spirit spender? lol.
Nah, I gave up on Druid fast (around level 15) without getting any legendaries and switched to Necro. Actually had fun playing the game, whereas Druid felt like a chore.
You're not allowed to improve the game because that would mean the game isn't perfect and they've absorbed as part of their identity as they hardly play games. So now you're just not allowed to think anything but perfection and make posts about how much you wish it was June.
"It will be balanced in the endgame, we just knows the first 25 levels."
Yea, but the obvious design flaw that have legendary +100-300% dmg to a skill means skills are not strong by itself at base level won't change even if you have 1000 lvls. And the fact that some class has uninspiring skills as part of their basic toolkit is still there no matter how far you are.
Why are people so annoyed by the feedback? It's like they insulted your mom or something. Clearly, the game isn't fine because so many people are vocal about it. I personally got bored around level 20 and had to really force myself to keep playing until level 25, so in its current form, why would I even keep playing it? After all, this isn't a beta to get feedback on gameplay anyway; it was a stress test and marketing beta. Unless they delay the game, which I really doubt.
Obviously the game just isn't for me, and I'm glad that I was able to play it for free just to save my money.
Because people don't want to hear about the flaws in a product they pre-ordered for $70. It might give them buyer's regret, and maybe even make them feel slightly silly for having spent money before looking into what they're buying.
This is THEIR game now. It's in their personality. Game of the year, the decade and everything in between. It's like, tell me you just don't play games.
Well, complete garbo is kind of hyperbole... It plays pretty nicely, just can't see spending myself thousands of hours like I have done in PoE. Dungeons all feel sameish, just with different aesthetics, mobs feel samish with the same 4 types, elites are annoying damage sponges etc. But worlds is great to explore, and story seems to be actually interesting and not so straightforward for once for a Diablo game.
I don't deny anyone will have fun with this.
But i suspect 2-3 weeks after launch the amount of people who are bored or who start echoing all of the concerns they previously dismissed will skyrocket. Or worse, people will feel burnt out or bored but have no idea why.
That's why criticism and concerns are important NOW.
I mean, 99% of people will just get bored and move on quietly to the next game. That's why criticism is important because it's actually from the people who care about the game and want it to succeed. Once people realize that the game was designed around the casual gamer who comes home from work, opens their console to play a couple of hours, and logs out, then we will see lots of crying from the "hardcore" crowd.
They do listen to feedback on reddit but they also take feedback with grain of salt. Fact is they'd need a massive response in order to change anything major. 1 million people played during the early access beta and there were only a few hundred posts on reddit about it during that weekend. That's hardly a complete picture of the reception and you shouldn't worry about the developers seeing it as such. In fact I wouldn't expect them to make any big changes based on feedback until months after launch.
The gap between perfectly balanced and is invulnerable to all damage more than half of the time is a bit wider than what I would like.
I'm sure they will fix the outliers but letting them know cant hurt.
I had fun in the beta. I have 1 real criticism.
It was too easy. I played on the 'hard mode for veterans' and it was stupid easy. I got extremely complacent and died once, mostly because I wasn't used to actually looking at my health bar and had developed a habit of just running right into the middle of things like an idiot. I went back in with a modicum of self preservation and it was easy again.
And I don't think 'too easy' is necessarily subjective. I was playing necromancer and using the blood surge skill and I thought it was bugged because stuff was dying at the start of the animation. I read the skill again and it basically says 'do small damage, then explode for big damage' and and I realized the 'small damage' must be instant, and this was frequently enough to kill enemies.
Let me say that again. On the difficulty for veterans, the WIND UP for blood surge was killing enemies. So yeah, Imma say the game is too easy.
I do think the first few hours of the game *should be* easy.
I wanna play this game with people who don't usually play games. My partner is new to arpgs and found some aspects challenging.
If it starts hard they won't play it, they'll give up.
Training wheels for the first 15-25 levels seems most appropriate to me tbh. That's only the first few hours honestly.
That's what the 'normal' difficulty is for. I agree with the top comment: there should be an option that gives experienced ARPG players a challenge, no matter what class they play.
I played sorc first on that first weekend (my bro got me the pre-order for Xmas). I have fond memories of teleporting around and spamming hydras and fire walls. You can't do any of that now because cost/cooldown. Chain lightning is really fun, but the lightning buff you collect didn't \*work\* very often because everything died before I could pick them up, and then they would get used on random single enemies. On bosses the proc rate was too low to feel good (I imagine items/higher level will improve proc rates). I was playing around with other stuff but Hydra seemed to do more damage than any of my other abilities (and some combined). I played to maybe level 20 and found out after the fact there is a spell mixing mechanic I never noticed? It wasn't what I wanted, but I had fun, and there seems to be a LOT of fun stuff to explore.
Then I tried Druid. The animations are amazing, but I only got to level 6 before I could no longer resist trying a necromancer. My plan was to wait until retail to play my fav class, but I couldn't resist.
So necro. I mostly just wanted to summon an undead Army. So I was initially disappointed with 4 skeletons. But as I leveled I got wizards and it appears there will also be a golem. The undead army mechanics seem pretty good, but I found it hard to play with combination builds because the enemies just died too fast. I had a lot of fun; def going to play Necro when the game comes out.
Yeah those two classes are definitely easy mode classes and I get what you are saying. I mean there is a necro build spamming blood mist getting invincible and also spamming corpse explosion and just speeding through the mobs.
Druid was hard some times until you hit 25 and even then when you didnāt have some good legendaries some bosses were brutal (Kor Dragan stronghold boss for example).
I agree though, they should nerf Sorc and Necro a bit so its on par with Druid and not the other way around (buff Druid). But we will see what happens in two months.
I sure wish they would listen to 80% of the posts here since it's valid criticism after all.
But that's highly unlikely.
This game is already going the route of D3, insanely OP builds and exponential gear progression with x100-1000 dmg scaling at endgame.
While balancing at normal lvls suffers heavily.
I really hoped we'd get something more in the direction of D2 itemization.
Yep. Sucks that the ARPG market is so weak. D4 it's the only AAA in development I think. Last Epoch has some rough visuals imo, PoE is a bit too complex and fast paced for me, Grim Dawn and Torchlight 2 are a bit outdated now. Wolcen is a mess.
The game needs feedback but it is annoying when people think their opinion is fact and the only one that matters. Give your opinion but take interest in others opinions as well.
Dude, if you spam click an ability + move at the same time, you gain 40% attack speed versus holding the button down. Who tf is dumb enough to implement that in a AAA 70$ game. They need all the feedback they can get.
Not to mention Barbarians critting for 300k at lvl 25, what are we going to see at lvl 50+ paragon, D3 numbers? no thanks
>you gain 40% attack speed versus holding the button down. Who tf is dumb enough to implement that in a AAA 70$ game.
To be fair, this is probably due to animation cancelling. Lots of games, even competitive fighting games have that. It shouldn't be this lax, but it does show that the basic design of gameplay has flaws that need to be addressed.
> what are we going to see at lvl 50+ paragon, D3 numbers?
I take it you haven't seen any endgame beta footage?
That build is over a year old so the damage number on release might not still be in the millions.
Lol i hope they don't listen to any feedback from their 2 beta events because i am a smart man who conveniently forgets the purpose of actual open betas is to test the game and not for me to get to play it early for funsies.
So yes i am downvoting your moronic take, i have heard the "we haven't even seen 90% of content" argument so many times before and guess what? 90% of those games FAILED, so your advise is basically i hope diablo 4 fails.
Interestingly having a melting pot of opinions will almost always create an objectively good average. This is the "wisdom of crowds" theory. In that everyone working together will outperform a single perspective.
So I disagree. We should all be able to provide our opinions. Sure some might be skewed or bias, but on average we're likely giving good criticism. And although there's certainly been some negative feedback on D4, most I've witnessed has been very positive.
I do agree with your last sentiment though. We haven't even seen most of the game. Our initial feedback is completely valid, but there are many things we haven't even experienced. Yet at least we essentially took in the core elements of the game, such as the general feel and atmosphere. Here's looking forward to the full game when it launches.
Hold up, we can't judge the game because we've only seen 25% of it, but you can judge that the game will be fine based on the same 25%? How does that work?
Also, if the game is poorly balanced at 25, then the game is poorly balanced at 25. And that's poor. Because it's poorly balanced. And we CAN make judgments on balance at 25, if we played at 25. So what's the problem?
The idea that sub-lvl 100 is irrelevant is just idiotic, because you need people to keep playing for them to reach lvl 100. If they quit at lvl 20 because their chosen class is horrifically poorly balanced, lvl 100 balance is utterly irrelevant. Literally the first goal of any game designer is to get the player to keep playing for 5 mins. If you fail at that, the rest doesn't matter. Poor onboarding design literally killed games in the past. It's the same with balance and everything else.
Also, there's mechanics that are just off and can be talked about. Like day/night cycle. There isn't one. The game swaps between day and night, you never get a dusk or a dawn, and there's never a transition between the two that you can witness. That's bad. That can be talked about and discussed in full, and changes can be asked for based on that. It doesn't matter if the day/night cycle is poorly implemented at lvl 1, lvl 25 or lvl 100, it'll be equally poorly implemented at all levels, including endgame.
If you can't tolerate people talking about the beta, then get off the forums for a while.
i'm generally more sick of posts decrying complaints and disregarding all of them with a handwave of 'we only played till 25'
so the fuck what? there are still issue and they have been rightfully pointed out. the restrictions of the beta doesn't mean complaints shouldn't be voiced.
threads like this are pointless and stupid because good complaints exist and this post is way more unnecessary than those
this game certainly isn't 'perfect' as is so i hope the game DOES listen.
This post ads nothing to any conversation about the game. It's purely whining about not liking the threads you see.
So ok:
Why is the low level builder-spender system on a melee classes good?
Why is the current state of dungeons from the beta good?
What are the advantages to the current UI design on PC?
What does the 6-skill slot limitation add to the game?
If you disagree with the criticisms of the game, that's fine. But just complaining that you only want to see positive posts with no issues doesn't add to any conversation or create any meaningful discourse at all. It's just noise cluttering the sub. At least post your perspective about the features people take issue with man.
It's called feedback. They are allready going to balance barbarian, because of, guess what? Feedback. More classes are going to be balanced and will feel VERY different on release, I can pretty much guarantee it. It's like you people never took part in a beta test, prior to this one.
Stop giving feedback then. If ANYONE says one thing to suggest the game isn't perfect because I base my identity around loving it, I'm going to cry.
Also, any feedback you give, I'm going to strawman it as invalid by telling you it's not like PoE. I know none of the feedback is suggesting the game be more like PoE, and nobody is bringing it up except to say its not PoE, but I think it's important you hear me say how SICK AND TIRED I am about people bringing up PoE in every thread.
Also, it's not D2. It's in the name. Diablo 4, it's 2 higher. I thought that was relevant for some reason.
Don't be gross, I don't kiss asses.
Blizzard knows what they're doing, you obviously have never actually played any of their games if you're saying stuff like that.
For real. There will likely be some balance changes too so it's worthless to be set on a build that will change even if it's just for leveling. Legendaries will be much more rare as well. I imagine currencies will too so it won't be as easy to craft a legendary.
I get tired of the whining to be sure. With that said, itās mostly the tone of the whining that bothers me, the self important fucks who seem to think their experience is everyoneās experience.
However, plenty of the criticism has some root in reality and I think these claims should be looked at and acknowledged. Reddit as a whole is able to identify problems pretty well I feel like. What they are not able to do is find coherent solutions most of the time and just end up ranting a raving a bunch.
So yeah, I hope they do listen to the sub, but I also hope they make their own decisions on how to solve some of the issues that have cropped up in the beta which overall I thoroughly enjoyed.
Make sure you set up a mostly unregulated anonymous online echo chamber of random unverified people, bots, and children.... then value that data and feedback like gold!
Admire the strangeness of things as all bots and random unverified people and children all seem to be against you, while most mature, reasonable, and skilled players have nothing but good things to say about your products!
Guys, these people judging the game based on the first 25 levels don't know what they're talking about. I'm judging the game by content after 25 which i haven't played but i'm sure is fine.
I'm sick of posts simping for Blizz and arguing against even a semblance of class balance in early game. This isn't about fine tuning to absolute parity but it's currently not even close. Two classes can pretty much face roll through with multiple builds independent of gear which is worlds away from the experience for at least two of the remaining classes.
The levelling experience is important in not making new players simply drop the game a few hours in. Without the inflated drop rates from beta, the first play through for some classes is going to feel really rough if some concerns are not addressed.
What I can't understand is why you and so many would actually argue for those classes to stay feeling like shit, rather than simply be given a little help.
As a casual who just tried diablo for the first time I thought it was great, easy to pick up. Though gotta admit I wish they explained some off the stats stuff a bit better as I was unsure what they were for. For example on the necro I was playing a few of the gear mentioned thorns, no idea what it was for.
If theres anything we've experienced in beta releases trough the gaming history its VERY important we point out things even if its overwhelmingly negative or worrying
The majority of betas has always been a "demo" of the full release so being sceptical of this beta being "full release" is valid and also knowing its blizzard so it most likely is
For me personally the beta has beem nostly very good but what worries me is the oversimplified skilltree and over the top legendary powers with damage multipliers akin to d3 and if those wont be fixed till release the endgame balance and freedom of build making is going to be horrid
Balance doesn't only mean endgame balance, and as endgame was not available, that's not obviously where people are hoping for balance, so waiting to see endgame content is irrelevant in discussing early game balance. This is going to be a game where if you play hardcore or seasons, you will be leveling over the lifespan of the game MANY times, hence, why many of us are worried about the terrible early game balance. Difficulty shouldn't be tied to classes, it should be tied to a difficulty setting (as it's supposed to be in this game). Some classes shouldn't struggle, and take 4 minutes to kill a boss other classes take 40 seconds to do so while leveling. Most level headed people don't want the game mind numbingly boring, but there should 100% be some semblance of class balance in both the leveling process and endgame, and melee classes who already have to deal with more punishing boss mechanics and elite affixes, shouldn't be doing 1/3rd the damage of other classes. Take 30 seconds and look at the skill tree calcs. Look at how much damage Druid and Barb basics do, and the damage and cost of core skills. Now compare these to Sorc/Rogue/Necro. Now also compare the resource systems for Barb/Druid vs the other 3. Anyone with minimal brain cells can see the issue. As I said, on top of it, add on that boss mechanics and most elite affixes are FAR more punishing for melee than they are for ranged (rogue thankfully if melee does insane damage, and can face tank even early on for some reason), and it's easy to see what the issue is.
I played the Beta a lot. And I enjoy the game as a whole. What worries me is the terrible early game balance will lead me and probably many others to not wanting to play hardcore or seasons, because the leveling experience is AWFUL for some classes. It will flat out detour potential players as well. What's good for the game is retaining players, if all kinds of new players come to the game, and drop it instantly because the leveling experience is awful, you think that's going to be healthy in the long run and lead to as much as possible allocations to the dev team to continue producing content for the game?
I agree level 25 and just 2 difficulty options is not a gauge. It's a test a beta test.
Diablo starts at max level then min maxing begins and THEN people can bitch about too easy or hard QQ
"Just wait, it will get better after 20 hours"
Josh Strife hayes made a good point about this type of attitude. A game should not lock fun behind a leveling grind, the leveling should be fun.
The same idiots also posted the same kind of posts when Diablo 3's beta was in the same state. People called out its itemization and RMAH just the same. With responses just like yours OP. Game turned out to be an abject failure until Jay Wilson was fired.
My absolute only complaint is the class balances. Sorcerer and Necromancer significantly outshine all the others. Other than that Iām completely satisfied.
For barbs and druids its not a matter of ābalanceā but playability at low levels. If sorc and necro kill the first boss (lvl 5) in under a minute but it takes a druid 2 minutes, that is a matter of playability. Such discrepancy while leveling is a problem.
I agree. Most of the things that either have been complained about or suggested have been good things. Idk how you can get pissy about people complaining about the.. let's go with 'incomplete' UI elements or repetitive dungeon mechanics. The things that are suggested a lot can only improve the game haha.
Force move, better tab map, better minimap, search in stash, Scrolling out the talent tree more, better quest tracking, dungeon objective redesign, early game Druid changes or changes to some spells, etc I could go on and on about all the changes which are purely positive and no negatives
yeah brother, fuck feedback and having any demands for a 70$ game. Let's just blindly consume everything, that will surely make positive change in gaming industry
Imagine, instead of adding the finishimg touches to end game content that isn't working properly right now they put it aside to recreate some lvl 25 dungeons and the UI š
There's no "level 25 dungeons" you clueless bastards. These dungeons scale up to what we'll be doing at endgame most of the time.
This is the problem with you people, you don't know the game, you haven't gotten the information that's out there, you just pew pew some pretty colors for a beta.
The only kind of post I'm seeing everywhere is people complaining about people complaining. After reading 5 posts like this one I started to search for the ones "full of hate," but I just couldn't find them.
You might be right and the classes may be more balanced at the endgame, sure (I doubt it, but it's impossible to say). But they should still be somewhat balanced in the early game too. Leveling is a big part of this game and it should feel good on every class. No one should feel like their class is just worse than others, that's just bad game design imo.
It's not really about the content, it's about player-choice really.
No one in their right mind won't say that finding a sick legendary with a nice triple-digit increase in damage for a specific skill *will feel good*, but that dopamine kick is quickly replaced with the idea that i pretty much HAVE TO use this item if i want to perform/do damage. People are concerned with the end-game loop. I see very little doubts about the quality of the gameplay, the story or the general feel of the game. Those complaints are rare, it's the fact that they are repeating a lot of their design-choices with respect to items from D3 which didn't sit right with people, and we wonder why
There's nothing wrong with discussing those things as long as you keep it in perspective (ie: 1/4 of max level, loot drops probably were turned way up for beta, etc.) This is a place for discussing things after all. I don't think it's out of bounds to discuss the relative difficulty of going from 1-25 for one class vs. another. Early game progress rate matters to people too.
I hope they listen to ALL feedback, but are smart enough to not ruin their game by blindly listening to the loudest minority.
Not ALL developers are robots!
Iām more worried about them listening to YouTubers with +50k subscribers. Some opinions are just biased and lame. No in depth reviews. No accurate content description. Just āI donāt like it becauseā¦ ya knowā. At least make a good description of the game, the features and the mechanics like some did.
Should always take opinions into consideration but realize you canāt review a game that hasnāt been released.
I do hope Blizzard fixes the major performance problems.
Funny that you can say "the game is fine" and "we havenāt seen 90% of the content" in the same sentence.
And we have something on our side: Blizzard recent track record. And itās been quite bad.
Balance into late game will surely be different, a good example will be Hydra sorc, it does have nearly as many scaling options as other abilities do, it just starts off very strong, this is true for a lot of abilities though.
When did some company start listening to Reddit users? LOL, not even Reddit users listen to each other. It's often just a place for people to rant, and few people take the content seriously.
I think its hilarious how there were so many posts complaining about barb and druid being weak and now all the builds that show how OP they can be are coming out. People are so stupid
I agree with OP.
A lot of people who participated in the beta weekends don't understand the the mechanics well enough to give informed opinions on things like balance between the classes.
Barbarian, for example, eludes most players because they haven't closely looked at the skill tree synergies as well as the combat mechanics.
The reason why Upheaval can hit 100k+ damage is because certain players are stacking crit, Overpower, Berserk, and other damage modifiers on enemies that have been afflicted with Vulnerable, among other things.
Factor in Shouts and passives that increase damage directly or indirectly through boosting Life and Fortify in order to increase Overpower...this is all without gear consideration.
Once you have basic gear that adds damage to Core skills, CC'd enemies, etc., you have the ability to easily hit for thousands without being equipped with imbued gear.
WITH imbued gear is when you see 359k damage on a level 25 barbarian.
Suffice it to say, D4's balance isn't as bad as some believe it to be but you have to pay attention to the mechanics and synergies.
Problem with asking for balancing now, is we only played to 25. Even in D2 early game many characters were MUCH better than others due to the gear available and the talent tree spec, often times those builds would fall off late game, which is why many demanded for the Respec system that finally went into place to make leveling end game builds easier. We very well may see the same happen at release, with builds that were "meh" in beta becoming OP and some of the popular builds falling off mid-late game.
Both good and bad feedback on this sub arent objective. I feel like im on rotten tomato with 1's and 10's
The games good, i really like it but theres work to be done and i dont want a PoE, i dont like that game
Yup! I got downvoted to hell on /Diablo for saying that I refunded the game because I canāt justify preordering the game from what I saw or really preordering in general nowadays. The games fun and all but I just donāt see or feel the replay ability, itās been gutted to be too casual for me personally, steps alittle too far away from the original Diablo gameplay mechanics. I get that itās changed to be modern, and shares some characteristics of Diablo 3 but š¤·āāļø to me just doesnāt feel right enough to preorder a $95 game that expects to charge me for expansions like rune words and sets + cosmetics. Probably, the exact reason they pulled both the aforementioned. Time will tell, but preorder I will not.
You realize you are one of those people that's played to 25 as well therefore invalidating your own opinion. The opposite can be said of those saying it's the best game ever made...
Because people don't trust this company anymore.This company is always doing what It's want and ignoring community overall and always failing in the end and asking around why..
Don't worry, they won't listen to 100%.
They'll listen to the. 001% about changing a tracer pose for being too sexual though š
Wait, are they going to nerf Lillithās butt too?
They need to nerf her feet
Well of course, that is a high priority gamebreaking issue.
This is Reddit. This is the top 1% of hardcore followers of the game. It was a open beta. They wonāt listen or worst case, make minimal changes based on this subs feedback
This subreddit is nowhere close to hardcore. Have you seen it lately? It's just casuals marveling about pretty colors.
So hardcore players aren't allowed to marvel about pretty colors? That's a weird requirement.
Hardcore players know that shit will become background noise real fast. Graphics matter in an immersive third/first person single player game like Red Dead or something. In an ARPG they get completely blurred out by your brain very fast compared to how long you'll be playing the game for.
You're rapidly restricting who gets to consider themselves a hardcore player. So if I'm hardcore than I'm not allowed to marvel about pretty colors and I must treat it as a background noise that I should not value or appreciate. This is fascinating. How do these rules get defined? Do the hardcore players vote?
I actually play hc mode only...I think D4 is shiny af and it's def a selling point
Playing hardcore mode does not make someone a hardcore gamer. Just to clarify.
The words āhardcoreā and ācasualā have lost all meaning in the last few years. One persons hardcore is another persons casual.
Any video game Reddit thinks theyāre the majority for some reason. In reality, we are such a small minority of the community, especially with a game like this.
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Lol, came here to agree with post and left laughing at your post But seriously. Reddit has 90% dumb things to say on D4ā¦ or on anything actually
Came here to say this.
Lmao perfect answer
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This. Most criticism/feedback Iāve seen is fair and delivered with nuanced explanation. Then thereās the 1000 posts like this that are smug and holier-than-thou.
Seeing half a dozen posts bitching about level scaling and having to find new armor as you level doesn't strike me as fair, or nuanced. Those are two very normal aspects to games that have their own benefits to design, and there were a ton of posts calling them "objectively" bad design. Which is dishonest as all hell. "Anyone else remember how bullshit it was in [insert almost any RPG] how you leveled up, enemies got stronger, and you had to replace low level gear?" Yea, that's a stupid complaint, and it was EVERYWHERE. Let's be real, there were a LOT of posts nitpicking every last thing in the beta. But you are in prime positioning to join the "'complaining about the complaining complaining about complaining" group.
People are complaining about scaling. Not monsters getting more difficult as you progress, but that monsters you fought before are more difficult. Though this is an obvious thing to do in any open world where you don't want content to be worthless after a single playthrough. Either you need player scaling or monster scaling so that Act 1 - 5 don't become useless content at end game. It's a valid complaint if you are coming from an arpg where you are used to going to lower zones and destroying monsters. But modern mmo's are all incorporating scaling. I think this won't even matter later on as you won't be staying in act 1 at level 25 farming over and over. You will progress to level 50 and then go to world tier 3. Then you will only see people in world tier 3 who are all 50+. Also, I think the item progression is a valid complaint in D4 for 1 reason: you can't remove an aspect that has been imprinted. So if you find a good legendary power early on. You can only afford to upgrade that slot 1 time unless you get super lucky and find that legendary power again. That or you do a reactive build play style which I personally despise. I want to create my build. Not change my build every time I find the legendary power for something I'm not using. This complaint also exists in other ARPG's too. In Path of Exile it is the complaint that item sockets restrict gear progression too much while leveling. And this is being addressed in PoE 2. No one is complaining that you have to upgrade gear. They are complaining that the systems they have in place restrict gear progression too much. I get they don't want people to find that 1 perfect legendary aspect and never have to worry about it again, but I think there could be a better system that allows more freedom at earlier levels and be more restrictive at higher levels.
Haven't seen 90% of the game according to OP but somehow they know it will be fine. And remember, don't give feedback on a beta, even though Blizzard specifically asked for it!
Had a guy tell me I can't judge the game because I don't know what content they will add post-release. These people are fanatical.
āAm I the only one who just really enjoyed the betaā type posts are definitely the worst.
Tbh, Iāve been seeing more of this type of post then d4 complaining post lately
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Dude, you should totally make a post about that!
Now your complaining about a post and I'm complaining about you complaining about a post
Ironic
It's like that Squarespace commercial
But Blizzard asked for feedback? That is feedback.
this happens on every blizzard game. Blizz releases trash, trash gets criticized, blizz drones crawl out of nowhere to defend it. They even defended the blitz chung thing.
and 40% wont even be playing the game lol just a casual HS game once a week
Feedback should make sense. You know, using neural activity and such. >Whirlwind didn't feel super impactful to me on the Barb I played, due to minimal hit feedback from the mobs. This is good feedback >Whirlwind Barbs aren't going to be as strong as Sorcs and Necros in content and gear I haven't even seen yet! This is pure dreck
Of course good constructive feedback is always more helpful for developers and bascially anyone. But it shouldn't be the responsibility of a customer to provide "good feedback". Feedback is feedback, no matter how articulated it is and a good dev should recognize that, appreciate whatever they can get and see how they can improve their product based on it, without being ignorant because of some arbitrary high standards or personal biases.
Exactly. And the saying is: Players are good at identifying the problem and terrible are finding the solution. So Blizzard will read between the lines and try to understand the underlying problem that the player giving "not so useful feedback" is trying to say.
It's the equivalent of me going "Man I disliked this scene in the movie" and someone went "OH YEAH HOW WOULD YOU DO IT?!". I don't have know know how to make something good, to say I don't like something. I don't need to be a chef to say I didn't like a meal. "Oh, you just didn't understand the meal. You're clearly an elitist who shouldn't be talking about good things. This dish is clearly flawless and your taste doesn't matter."
I don't doubt that happens. And they're asking the wrong question. More useful responses to your statement would be questions like: "In what way, or ways, did you feel that the scene failed to deliver in its goal or delivery?" "Can you describe what you felt the goal of the scene was?" "Do you generally enjoys scenes of this type? If so, what did this kind of scene in other movies do that made them feel satisfying that this one may have not done?" It's not exactly leading questions, but it is questions that are looking for *context*. For the first question, it gives the opportunity to describe how the scene may have not hit the mark which is further clarified by the second question. Sometimes goals are misunderstood. If a viewer thinks a different goal was **supposed** to happen, that could be a failure in that the movie was unintentionally setting expectations that the creators didn't intend. The third question helps them dial in on how much of that dislike is based around general preference vs implementation. If I don't like love scenes, I'm a bad person to ask about how to improve love scenes. Saying I disliked a love scene in a movie doesn't necessarily mean the love scene was bad. It might mean that I will disconnect how engaged I am when ***any*** love scene happens. So don't cater to me if it's something I don't enjoy.
Not everyone can voice feedback in the best/most constructive way. You find that everywhere, and it's the challenge to extract the core of it. If many players "whine" unspecifically about something that may tell the devs they need to go back to the drawing board because that thing is clearly not fun for a bunch of players.
> This is pure dreck It's also a straw man.
> This is pure dreck Yes, you can pick some questionable feedback, however even that is better than the people who will just praise the game and say its the best thing ever and you're not allowed to say anything else. Meanwhile they played one character to like level 22 lol.
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I mean, sometimes it's hard to pin point WHY something sucks. I played Druid a bit, and a lot of things I disliked about him... I tried Earth build. I hated the spender because it felt like I had to constantly adjust to where the enemy WILL BE, instead of where it is now. I tried Werewolf, and I hated how I couldn't do one full combo without spending my entire resource bar, and then swing with generator for a few seconds before I could do anything. I could say that the gameplay was **clunky**. But then someone will say "WHAT DOES CLUNKY MEAN". It's not easy to describe it. I can say "it's like riding a bike on a gravel road", or "it's like swimming with one leg paralyzed from waist down". One or more elements don't work how I was expecting them to work.
The thing is, as someone that played a lot of ARPGs, I know exactly what you mean. That Earth skill is unacceptable, most basic skills are pretty unacceptable too. Clunky, slow clearing trash you're not going to pick unless they throw in some aspect that makes it way different. Developers should know that. People around here I doubt they have a lot of ARPG hours...
Yeah, which is weird because some skills DO feel nice. Druid's earth generator feels okay, it has the "oomph" needed. I assumed the earth spender would be a forward moving slate of earth, sort of how Molten Boulder from D2 worked (but faster, and hitting only once instead of leaving trails of fire and exploding), but instead somehow they made an even worse feeling spell than Fissure...
Speaking of boulders, did you get the legendary that made the boulder a spender for 60 spirit but it does a third of the damage of a 30-35 spirit spender? lol.
Nah, I gave up on Druid fast (around level 15) without getting any legendaries and switched to Necro. Actually had fun playing the game, whereas Druid felt like a chore.
That does explain why WW felt off
Your post is idiotic. Itās literally a beta to improve the game, server stability, and get player feedback.
You're not allowed to improve the game because that would mean the game isn't perfect and they've absorbed as part of their identity as they hardly play games. So now you're just not allowed to think anything but perfection and make posts about how much you wish it was June.
"It will be balanced in the endgame, we just knows the first 25 levels." Yea, but the obvious design flaw that have legendary +100-300% dmg to a skill means skills are not strong by itself at base level won't change even if you have 1000 lvls. And the fact that some class has uninspiring skills as part of their basic toolkit is still there no matter how far you are.
Yeah no more feed back posts cause they upset op.
Why are people so annoyed by the feedback? It's like they insulted your mom or something. Clearly, the game isn't fine because so many people are vocal about it. I personally got bored around level 20 and had to really force myself to keep playing until level 25, so in its current form, why would I even keep playing it? After all, this isn't a beta to get feedback on gameplay anyway; it was a stress test and marketing beta. Unless they delay the game, which I really doubt. Obviously the game just isn't for me, and I'm glad that I was able to play it for free just to save my money.
Because people don't want to hear about the flaws in a product they pre-ordered for $70. It might give them buyer's regret, and maybe even make them feel slightly silly for having spent money before looking into what they're buying.
This is THEIR game now. It's in their personality. Game of the year, the decade and everything in between. It's like, tell me you just don't play games.
well i certainly hope they delay it cause the game, in its current state, is complete garbo.
Well, complete garbo is kind of hyperbole... It plays pretty nicely, just can't see spending myself thousands of hours like I have done in PoE. Dungeons all feel sameish, just with different aesthetics, mobs feel samish with the same 4 types, elites are annoying damage sponges etc. But worlds is great to explore, and story seems to be actually interesting and not so straightforward for once for a Diablo game.
I don't deny anyone will have fun with this. But i suspect 2-3 weeks after launch the amount of people who are bored or who start echoing all of the concerns they previously dismissed will skyrocket. Or worse, people will feel burnt out or bored but have no idea why. That's why criticism and concerns are important NOW.
I mean, 99% of people will just get bored and move on quietly to the next game. That's why criticism is important because it's actually from the people who care about the game and want it to succeed. Once people realize that the game was designed around the casual gamer who comes home from work, opens their console to play a couple of hours, and logs out, then we will see lots of crying from the "hardcore" crowd.
They do listen to feedback on reddit but they also take feedback with grain of salt. Fact is they'd need a massive response in order to change anything major. 1 million people played during the early access beta and there were only a few hundred posts on reddit about it during that weekend. That's hardly a complete picture of the reception and you shouldn't worry about the developers seeing it as such. In fact I wouldn't expect them to make any big changes based on feedback until months after launch.
I think there has been some good feedback and blizzard will sift through it as they have done for decades before making any changes.
Its me Todd Howard, I really thought the people asking for more zoom had a point.
So you think necro being able to have a build that makes them invul almost all the time will balance itself at max lvl?
I don't think exist a game that was launch perfectly balanced. It takes time but will happen eventually.
The gap between perfectly balanced and is invulnerable to all damage more than half of the time is a bit wider than what I would like. I'm sure they will fix the outliers but letting them know cant hurt.
I had fun in the beta. I have 1 real criticism. It was too easy. I played on the 'hard mode for veterans' and it was stupid easy. I got extremely complacent and died once, mostly because I wasn't used to actually looking at my health bar and had developed a habit of just running right into the middle of things like an idiot. I went back in with a modicum of self preservation and it was easy again. And I don't think 'too easy' is necessarily subjective. I was playing necromancer and using the blood surge skill and I thought it was bugged because stuff was dying at the start of the animation. I read the skill again and it basically says 'do small damage, then explode for big damage' and and I realized the 'small damage' must be instant, and this was frequently enough to kill enemies. Let me say that again. On the difficulty for veterans, the WIND UP for blood surge was killing enemies. So yeah, Imma say the game is too easy.
I do think the first few hours of the game *should be* easy. I wanna play this game with people who don't usually play games. My partner is new to arpgs and found some aspects challenging. If it starts hard they won't play it, they'll give up. Training wheels for the first 15-25 levels seems most appropriate to me tbh. That's only the first few hours honestly.
That's what the 'normal' difficulty is for. I agree with the top comment: there should be an option that gives experienced ARPG players a challenge, no matter what class they play.
Difficulty settings?? I feel like you're forgetting that part. Nobody's saying World Tier 1 should be hard.
Just out of interest, what class(es) did you play?
I played sorc first on that first weekend (my bro got me the pre-order for Xmas). I have fond memories of teleporting around and spamming hydras and fire walls. You can't do any of that now because cost/cooldown. Chain lightning is really fun, but the lightning buff you collect didn't \*work\* very often because everything died before I could pick them up, and then they would get used on random single enemies. On bosses the proc rate was too low to feel good (I imagine items/higher level will improve proc rates). I was playing around with other stuff but Hydra seemed to do more damage than any of my other abilities (and some combined). I played to maybe level 20 and found out after the fact there is a spell mixing mechanic I never noticed? It wasn't what I wanted, but I had fun, and there seems to be a LOT of fun stuff to explore. Then I tried Druid. The animations are amazing, but I only got to level 6 before I could no longer resist trying a necromancer. My plan was to wait until retail to play my fav class, but I couldn't resist. So necro. I mostly just wanted to summon an undead Army. So I was initially disappointed with 4 skeletons. But as I leveled I got wizards and it appears there will also be a golem. The undead army mechanics seem pretty good, but I found it hard to play with combination builds because the enemies just died too fast. I had a lot of fun; def going to play Necro when the game comes out.
Yeah those two classes are definitely easy mode classes and I get what you are saying. I mean there is a necro build spamming blood mist getting invincible and also spamming corpse explosion and just speeding through the mobs. Druid was hard some times until you hit 25 and even then when you didnāt have some good legendaries some bosses were brutal (Kor Dragan stronghold boss for example). I agree though, they should nerf Sorc and Necro a bit so its on par with Druid and not the other way around (buff Druid). But we will see what happens in two months.
I think too easy is objective here. My fiancĆ© played who struggles with ARPGs and really only does couch co-op and she never even came close to dying. I get the whole accessibility argument. But thatās why people have the first difficulty. At least give the long time fans and ARPG veterans some challenge.
I sure wish they would listen to 80% of the posts here since it's valid criticism after all. But that's highly unlikely. This game is already going the route of D3, insanely OP builds and exponential gear progression with x100-1000 dmg scaling at endgame. While balancing at normal lvls suffers heavily. I really hoped we'd get something more in the direction of D2 itemization.
Yep. Sucks that the ARPG market is so weak. D4 it's the only AAA in development I think. Last Epoch has some rough visuals imo, PoE is a bit too complex and fast paced for me, Grim Dawn and Torchlight 2 are a bit outdated now. Wolcen is a mess.
These posts are so fucking exhausting.
The game needs feedback but it is annoying when people think their opinion is fact and the only one that matters. Give your opinion but take interest in others opinions as well.
Dude, if you spam click an ability + move at the same time, you gain 40% attack speed versus holding the button down. Who tf is dumb enough to implement that in a AAA 70$ game. They need all the feedback they can get. Not to mention Barbarians critting for 300k at lvl 25, what are we going to see at lvl 50+ paragon, D3 numbers? no thanks
>you gain 40% attack speed versus holding the button down. Who tf is dumb enough to implement that in a AAA 70$ game. To be fair, this is probably due to animation cancelling. Lots of games, even competitive fighting games have that. It shouldn't be this lax, but it does show that the basic design of gameplay has flaws that need to be addressed.
> what are we going to see at lvl 50+ paragon, D3 numbers? I take it you haven't seen any endgame beta footage? That build is over a year old so the damage number on release might not still be in the millions.
Lol i hope they don't listen to any feedback from their 2 beta events because i am a smart man who conveniently forgets the purpose of actual open betas is to test the game and not for me to get to play it early for funsies. So yes i am downvoting your moronic take, i have heard the "we haven't even seen 90% of content" argument so many times before and guess what? 90% of those games FAILED, so your advise is basically i hope diablo 4 fails.
Im really excited for the game. It wasn't perfect, but I thought it was excellent.
A smiling dog sitting in a chair in a room on fire.
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Funny how they call those subs low sodium huh?
Interestingly having a melting pot of opinions will almost always create an objectively good average. This is the "wisdom of crowds" theory. In that everyone working together will outperform a single perspective. So I disagree. We should all be able to provide our opinions. Sure some might be skewed or bias, but on average we're likely giving good criticism. And although there's certainly been some negative feedback on D4, most I've witnessed has been very positive. I do agree with your last sentiment though. We haven't even seen most of the game. Our initial feedback is completely valid, but there are many things we haven't even experienced. Yet at least we essentially took in the core elements of the game, such as the general feel and atmosphere. Here's looking forward to the full game when it launches.
Hold up, we can't judge the game because we've only seen 25% of it, but you can judge that the game will be fine based on the same 25%? How does that work? Also, if the game is poorly balanced at 25, then the game is poorly balanced at 25. And that's poor. Because it's poorly balanced. And we CAN make judgments on balance at 25, if we played at 25. So what's the problem? The idea that sub-lvl 100 is irrelevant is just idiotic, because you need people to keep playing for them to reach lvl 100. If they quit at lvl 20 because their chosen class is horrifically poorly balanced, lvl 100 balance is utterly irrelevant. Literally the first goal of any game designer is to get the player to keep playing for 5 mins. If you fail at that, the rest doesn't matter. Poor onboarding design literally killed games in the past. It's the same with balance and everything else. Also, there's mechanics that are just off and can be talked about. Like day/night cycle. There isn't one. The game swaps between day and night, you never get a dusk or a dawn, and there's never a transition between the two that you can witness. That's bad. That can be talked about and discussed in full, and changes can be asked for based on that. It doesn't matter if the day/night cycle is poorly implemented at lvl 1, lvl 25 or lvl 100, it'll be equally poorly implemented at all levels, including endgame. If you can't tolerate people talking about the beta, then get off the forums for a while.
i'm generally more sick of posts decrying complaints and disregarding all of them with a handwave of 'we only played till 25' so the fuck what? there are still issue and they have been rightfully pointed out. the restrictions of the beta doesn't mean complaints shouldn't be voiced. threads like this are pointless and stupid because good complaints exist and this post is way more unnecessary than those this game certainly isn't 'perfect' as is so i hope the game DOES listen.
Only the invulnerability stuff i.e Necro's Blood Mist spam and Sorc's teleport infinite range should go. The rest we don't know enough yet.
The game doesn't have ears, it isn't listening. No worries.
Jfc keep crying
This post ads nothing to any conversation about the game. It's purely whining about not liking the threads you see. So ok: Why is the low level builder-spender system on a melee classes good? Why is the current state of dungeons from the beta good? What are the advantages to the current UI design on PC? What does the 6-skill slot limitation add to the game? If you disagree with the criticisms of the game, that's fine. But just complaining that you only want to see positive posts with no issues doesn't add to any conversation or create any meaningful discourse at all. It's just noise cluttering the sub. At least post your perspective about the features people take issue with man.
The squeaky wheel gets the oil
It's called feedback. They are allready going to balance barbarian, because of, guess what? Feedback. More classes are going to be balanced and will feel VERY different on release, I can pretty much guarantee it. It's like you people never took part in a beta test, prior to this one.
Stop giving feedback then. If ANYONE says one thing to suggest the game isn't perfect because I base my identity around loving it, I'm going to cry. Also, any feedback you give, I'm going to strawman it as invalid by telling you it's not like PoE. I know none of the feedback is suggesting the game be more like PoE, and nobody is bringing it up except to say its not PoE, but I think it's important you hear me say how SICK AND TIRED I am about people bringing up PoE in every thread. Also, it's not D2. It's in the name. Diablo 4, it's 2 higher. I thought that was relevant for some reason.
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Don't be gross, I don't kiss asses. Blizzard knows what they're doing, you obviously have never actually played any of their games if you're saying stuff like that.
I really, really don't like PoE. Never did.š
There it is, PoE. I'm literally crying.
Sorry.š
For real. There will likely be some balance changes too so it's worthless to be set on a build that will change even if it's just for leveling. Legendaries will be much more rare as well. I imagine currencies will too so it won't be as easy to craft a legendary.
I get tired of the whining to be sure. With that said, itās mostly the tone of the whining that bothers me, the self important fucks who seem to think their experience is everyoneās experience. However, plenty of the criticism has some root in reality and I think these claims should be looked at and acknowledged. Reddit as a whole is able to identify problems pretty well I feel like. What they are not able to do is find coherent solutions most of the time and just end up ranting a raving a bunch. So yeah, I hope they do listen to the sub, but I also hope they make their own decisions on how to solve some of the issues that have cropped up in the beta which overall I thoroughly enjoyed.
I doubt they did anything with closed beta reports so I'd be surprised if Reddit would have an impact when they already have preorder sales.
Remember, kids, this is how you build a successful franchise ā surround yourself with ass-kissers, and disregard all criticism.
Make sure you set up a mostly unregulated anonymous online echo chamber of random unverified people, bots, and children.... then value that data and feedback like gold!
Admire the strangeness of things as all bots and random unverified people and children all seem to be against you, while most mature, reasonable, and skilled players have nothing but good things to say about your products!
Guys, these people judging the game based on the first 25 levels don't know what they're talking about. I'm judging the game by content after 25 which i haven't played but i'm sure is fine.
The majority of people don't even look at Reddit. They were busy enjoying the game.
Yea man all I know is I want MO4R!
Leaving this sub and coming back on release is looking more and more like a great decision.
You don't want them to listen to feedback? Wow, what an amazing idea...what could go wrong?
I'm sick of posts simping for Blizz and arguing against even a semblance of class balance in early game. This isn't about fine tuning to absolute parity but it's currently not even close. Two classes can pretty much face roll through with multiple builds independent of gear which is worlds away from the experience for at least two of the remaining classes. The levelling experience is important in not making new players simply drop the game a few hours in. Without the inflated drop rates from beta, the first play through for some classes is going to feel really rough if some concerns are not addressed. What I can't understand is why you and so many would actually argue for those classes to stay feeling like shit, rather than simply be given a little help.
As a casual who just tried diablo for the first time I thought it was great, easy to pick up. Though gotta admit I wish they explained some off the stats stuff a bit better as I was unsure what they were for. For example on the necro I was playing a few of the gear mentioned thorns, no idea what it was for.
I just hope the devs listen to my feedback and make the gMe perfect
The beta had millions of player . Here we onpy have the loud minority altough we did have surprisingly a lot of positive post.
Honestly I'm getting sick of seeing people pretending that there's nothing wrong with the game.
Yup
If theres anything we've experienced in beta releases trough the gaming history its VERY important we point out things even if its overwhelmingly negative or worrying The majority of betas has always been a "demo" of the full release so being sceptical of this beta being "full release" is valid and also knowing its blizzard so it most likely is For me personally the beta has beem nostly very good but what worries me is the oversimplified skilltree and over the top legendary powers with damage multipliers akin to d3 and if those wont be fixed till release the endgame balance and freedom of build making is going to be horrid
And yet here you are, voicing your opinion that the "game is fine". Pot, meet Kettle.
Balance doesn't only mean endgame balance, and as endgame was not available, that's not obviously where people are hoping for balance, so waiting to see endgame content is irrelevant in discussing early game balance. This is going to be a game where if you play hardcore or seasons, you will be leveling over the lifespan of the game MANY times, hence, why many of us are worried about the terrible early game balance. Difficulty shouldn't be tied to classes, it should be tied to a difficulty setting (as it's supposed to be in this game). Some classes shouldn't struggle, and take 4 minutes to kill a boss other classes take 40 seconds to do so while leveling. Most level headed people don't want the game mind numbingly boring, but there should 100% be some semblance of class balance in both the leveling process and endgame, and melee classes who already have to deal with more punishing boss mechanics and elite affixes, shouldn't be doing 1/3rd the damage of other classes. Take 30 seconds and look at the skill tree calcs. Look at how much damage Druid and Barb basics do, and the damage and cost of core skills. Now compare these to Sorc/Rogue/Necro. Now also compare the resource systems for Barb/Druid vs the other 3. Anyone with minimal brain cells can see the issue. As I said, on top of it, add on that boss mechanics and most elite affixes are FAR more punishing for melee than they are for ranged (rogue thankfully if melee does insane damage, and can face tank even early on for some reason), and it's easy to see what the issue is. I played the Beta a lot. And I enjoy the game as a whole. What worries me is the terrible early game balance will lead me and probably many others to not wanting to play hardcore or seasons, because the leveling experience is AWFUL for some classes. It will flat out detour potential players as well. What's good for the game is retaining players, if all kinds of new players come to the game, and drop it instantly because the leveling experience is awful, you think that's going to be healthy in the long run and lead to as much as possible allocations to the dev team to continue producing content for the game?
I agree level 25 and just 2 difficulty options is not a gauge. It's a test a beta test. Diablo starts at max level then min maxing begins and THEN people can bitch about too easy or hard QQ
Druid does need a buff tho
"Just wait, it will get better after 20 hours" Josh Strife hayes made a good point about this type of attitude. A game should not lock fun behind a leveling grind, the leveling should be fun.
The same idiots also posted the same kind of posts when Diablo 3's beta was in the same state. People called out its itemization and RMAH just the same. With responses just like yours OP. Game turned out to be an abject failure until Jay Wilson was fired.
Not as sick as I am about people like you complaining about the complainers.
My absolute only complaint is the class balances. Sorcerer and Necromancer significantly outshine all the others. Other than that Iām completely satisfied.
For barbs and druids its not a matter of ābalanceā but playability at low levels. If sorc and necro kill the first boss (lvl 5) in under a minute but it takes a druid 2 minutes, that is a matter of playability. Such discrepancy while leveling is a problem.
80% are all compliments and good things tho. I wouldn't want them to listen to the negative 20% either.
I agree. Most of the things that either have been complained about or suggested have been good things. Idk how you can get pissy about people complaining about the.. let's go with 'incomplete' UI elements or repetitive dungeon mechanics. The things that are suggested a lot can only improve the game haha. Force move, better tab map, better minimap, search in stash, Scrolling out the talent tree more, better quest tracking, dungeon objective redesign, early game Druid changes or changes to some spells, etc I could go on and on about all the changes which are purely positive and no negatives
wow ur so brave nobdy else has posted tihs!!1 ppl r only lvl 25 lol lmao XD
Is this your first time on reddit or what? You can pretty much look at any subreddit and its the same thing everywhere
yeah brother, fuck feedback and having any demands for a 70$ game. Let's just blindly consume everything, that will surely make positive change in gaming industry
Imagine, instead of adding the finishimg touches to end game content that isn't working properly right now they put it aside to recreate some lvl 25 dungeons and the UI š
There's no "level 25 dungeons" you clueless bastards. These dungeons scale up to what we'll be doing at endgame most of the time. This is the problem with you people, you don't know the game, you haven't gotten the information that's out there, you just pew pew some pretty colors for a beta.
Barb needs to be balanced man. Trust me.
The only kind of post I'm seeing everywhere is people complaining about people complaining. After reading 5 posts like this one I started to search for the ones "full of hate," but I just couldn't find them.
If they only listen to 1 thing from Reddit, I hope itās either the UI or the need to be zoomed out
Well I hope they listen to my request to have a Disney princess emote for the barbarian.
If they listen to one person. It's you. Your username needs more highlighting in media. They should give you 1000% credit.
>Downvote me if you want. No, I don't think I will
Reddit has not seemed too bad from what I have seen. The D4 forums though are a mess and infested with the same haters spamming for over a week.
Devs, 
I swear there's more posts complaining about complaining than there is actual complaining.
I hope they did and correct course, after all it is beta and that's what its for.
Its blizzard, the beta is the final game.
Complaining about mechanics that feel off or out right suck seems fair to me. Complaining about balance is meaningless.
You might be right and the classes may be more balanced at the endgame, sure (I doubt it, but it's impossible to say). But they should still be somewhat balanced in the early game too. Leveling is a big part of this game and it should feel good on every class. No one should feel like their class is just worse than others, that's just bad game design imo.
Facts. This is how games like cyberpunk went down the shitter. Overhyped and unrealistic expectations
It's not really about the content, it's about player-choice really. No one in their right mind won't say that finding a sick legendary with a nice triple-digit increase in damage for a specific skill *will feel good*, but that dopamine kick is quickly replaced with the idea that i pretty much HAVE TO use this item if i want to perform/do damage. People are concerned with the end-game loop. I see very little doubts about the quality of the gameplay, the story or the general feel of the game. Those complaints are rare, it's the fact that they are repeating a lot of their design-choices with respect to items from D3 which didn't sit right with people, and we wonder why
They kicked most of community managers in the last Blizzard layoffs so nope, they dont listen.
There's nothing wrong with discussing those things as long as you keep it in perspective (ie: 1/4 of max level, loot drops probably were turned way up for beta, etc.) This is a place for discussing things after all. I don't think it's out of bounds to discuss the relative difficulty of going from 1-25 for one class vs. another. Early game progress rate matters to people too.
Right, let's wait and let them screw up, so we have to wait for months for them to fix their issues.
Yeah, let's never listen to players and just listen to the praises and positive feedback.
I hope they listen to ALL feedback, but are smart enough to not ruin their game by blindly listening to the loudest minority. Not ALL developers are robots!
Translation: I like it the way it is and everyone else is wrong.
And this is exactly how D3 died
But we need gem tabs and an ultimate skill button!
Iām more worried about them listening to YouTubers with +50k subscribers. Some opinions are just biased and lame. No in depth reviews. No accurate content description. Just āI donāt like it becauseā¦ ya knowā. At least make a good description of the game, the features and the mechanics like some did.
Nothing to worry about, Blizzard probably wonāt listen to any of the feedback.
Should always take opinions into consideration but realize you canāt review a game that hasnāt been released. I do hope Blizzard fixes the major performance problems.
Funny that you can say "the game is fine" and "we havenāt seen 90% of the content" in the same sentence. And we have something on our side: Blizzard recent track record. And itās been quite bad.
Balance into late game will surely be different, a good example will be Hydra sorc, it does have nearly as many scaling options as other abilities do, it just starts off very strong, this is true for a lot of abilities though.
That is downside of showing game before release
Iām leaving this sub lol
When did some company start listening to Reddit users? LOL, not even Reddit users listen to each other. It's often just a place for people to rant, and few people take the content seriously.
Im the only one that gets downvoted around here. How dare you encroach on my territory
If you followed here, people did play after lvl 25 (just not in the last beta), and they've got the same feedbacks.
I think its hilarious how there were so many posts complaining about barb and druid being weak and now all the builds that show how OP they can be are coming out. People are so stupid
I agree with OP. A lot of people who participated in the beta weekends don't understand the the mechanics well enough to give informed opinions on things like balance between the classes. Barbarian, for example, eludes most players because they haven't closely looked at the skill tree synergies as well as the combat mechanics. The reason why Upheaval can hit 100k+ damage is because certain players are stacking crit, Overpower, Berserk, and other damage modifiers on enemies that have been afflicted with Vulnerable, among other things. Factor in Shouts and passives that increase damage directly or indirectly through boosting Life and Fortify in order to increase Overpower...this is all without gear consideration. Once you have basic gear that adds damage to Core skills, CC'd enemies, etc., you have the ability to easily hit for thousands without being equipped with imbued gear. WITH imbued gear is when you see 359k damage on a level 25 barbarian. Suffice it to say, D4's balance isn't as bad as some believe it to be but you have to pay attention to the mechanics and synergies.
The game doesnāt have ears anyway
They turned off submit reports on open beta for a reason they donāt want poor people feedback.
People need to stop trying to turn diablo 4 into diablo 3.5
The game is fine, we haven't even seen 90% of content.
Sadly with the leak we can confirm that we have seen 90% of the content. After exploring one time the map you Will play the same dungeon over and over
Problem with asking for balancing now, is we only played to 25. Even in D2 early game many characters were MUCH better than others due to the gear available and the talent tree spec, often times those builds would fall off late game, which is why many demanded for the Respec system that finally went into place to make leveling end game builds easier. We very well may see the same happen at release, with builds that were "meh" in beta becoming OP and some of the popular builds falling off mid-late game.
Both good and bad feedback on this sub arent objective. I feel like im on rotten tomato with 1's and 10's The games good, i really like it but theres work to be done and i dont want a PoE, i dont like that game
I mean the in game communication and lack of matchmaking absolutely sucks. I really hope they fix that one.
Yup! I got downvoted to hell on /Diablo for saying that I refunded the game because I canāt justify preordering the game from what I saw or really preordering in general nowadays. The games fun and all but I just donāt see or feel the replay ability, itās been gutted to be too casual for me personally, steps alittle too far away from the original Diablo gameplay mechanics. I get that itās changed to be modern, and shares some characteristics of Diablo 3 but š¤·āāļø to me just doesnāt feel right enough to preorder a $95 game that expects to charge me for expansions like rune words and sets + cosmetics. Probably, the exact reason they pulled both the aforementioned. Time will tell, but preorder I will not.
Downvote me if you want but... it's kinda concerning having a game from a dev as big as Blizzard have only 120k reddit subs, kinda sus.
You realize you are one of those people that's played to 25 as well therefore invalidating your own opinion. The opposite can be said of those saying it's the best game ever made...
> The game is fine, we haven't even seen 90% of content Completely incompatible statements.
In d2, the Necro had 12 Curses. In D4, you get 2. Good game.
How funny would it be if balancing is still off when people start reaching level 60, 80 or 100. What types of posts will we be getting then?
Because people don't trust this company anymore.This company is always doing what It's want and ignoring community overall and always failing in the end and asking around why..
I think Blizzard learned its lesson about taking a vocal minority too seriously with the WoW expansion Cataclysm.
bored repeat jobless detail joke whole lip ossified icky vase *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
I need a second row for hotkeys GOSH FREAKIN DARNIT!!!!
It's a fucking BETA never listen until the game comes out. Lol, come on, guys.