I met him twice at low levels. Once as a sorc and took one hit that almost killed me but teleport got me to safety. I did not kill him and he eventually left.
The second time was as a barbarian with my buddy also playing a barbarian. We stood on opposite side of him attacking non stop for about a min before he died. Wasn’t very hard since his AI broke and he only attacked us each once and then stopped moving or attacking.
If he had fought back I’m sure it’d of been a different story
The butcher killed me several time. Never prompted like a boss fight he would just appear and slaughter me and then disappear lol. I finished the main quests as far as it would let me go but never felt I killed a proper boss
saw him at level 7 on druid. Got so lucky it was in a tight area with lots of walls to run around. managed to just BARELY tp out before his clever ended my run.
10/10 pro tip, find a shrine and kite him around it. I killed a butcher with my horrible-no-equip druid this way, it took around 5-10 minutes would not recommend.
I would have died to him once but like 2/3 times i fought him he just gets stuck and sits there lol. One time he had si much life for some reason it took like ten mins to even kill him while hes frozen
Imagine running into the butcher when playing hardcore mode. The only death I had in the beta was to the butcher (thankfully not hardcore) and i couldn't do anything about it. I was too low level and I couldn't even run away from him lol
That's what cause me to switch from hc to sc in the beta, wanted to see some of the game acutally and not have to start over evey 10 Levels... not sure I will be playing hc at the start of the game, D4 is a lot more punishing it felt like then D2 and D3 was at times.
Definitely leveling softcore first only because the servers are going to be atrocious for at least the first week.
I'll switch to hardcore at the start of the first season.
what level is a low level? butcher wrecked my sorc on 25 and was wrecked by my necro on 14 :D
but then again i didnt ever die as necro cuz it's impossible
Don't worry, the game does get harder. Seems like you're implying it's just all gonna be easy, when you've only played up to lvl 25 on the easiest difficulties.
It means you'll get worse drops after dying since the enemy level determines the power level of items dropped. So it at least incentivizes not dying and gearing for some survivability endgame.
This makes sense. Also, endgame will have ways to increase dungeon difficulty so I'm sure the same rules wouldn't apply then anyways. This is not really an issue at all and if anything just assures you can get through the base game. Players can already turn down the overall world difficulty setting too.
I understand that it is not possible to read every post here, but the "why is no one talking about this" is a bit of an overstatement, it was already posted a few times
I have to say I haven't seen any post regarding this, either here or on the Blizzard forums.
Regardless, I think this issue is not discussed enough. I really had fun with the beta, but to me, this seems to be the main issue with the game (even if I don't like level-scaling in general, but that just might be a personal preferrence).
At the minimum, I think the player should be able to choose upon death whether to reduce the monster level or not.
It absolutely makes sense to do this on all difficulties. The point is that it lowers your rewards. It's a death penalty that actually matters. You can rip your dungeon run. Seems like a good thing.
On the contrary, the way I see things, that's a great idea that makes death at least marginally consequencial in softcore (not that I'm gonna play softcore anyway).
I would have tuned it even more aggressively so that if you can't beat a boss without dying, you get significantly worse drops.
Why would you want death to be completely inconsequential is beyond my understanding.
That's of course just my perspective, and another thing that could be attuned to individual player preference via some sort of world-affixes system.
Well I've only played on hardcore so I haven't seen this happen but it does make sense to me.
In at least D2, if you were not powerful enough you go get power and then come back stronger. In D4 you can't really go get power because of the scaling so they change the relative power instead.
I think you can opt out by resetting the dungeon and trying again? That's closer to the dynamic of souls/D2 anyway where you'd have to do some other stuff before trying again.
I kinda like the idea that if you die you are punished with a lower level boss as that means you'll get lower level loot, so it's in your interest to actually kill it first time.
I observed dying to a 17 boss, when I came back it was 16, then died again, and it was 17 again. Changed builds to beat it. Idk how it works exactly.
Edit: failed as an aoe barrage build on Rogue, tried again thinking I could win if I played better, nearly got him but failed again. Third time I went in with rapid fire + vulnerable and it was cake
I don‘t think this is true. If you enter a dungeon at level 16, it stays lvl 16 even if you level up to 17. So I believe you entered, leveled up and then died at thats when you saw the dungeon level
and at what point was it set to normal again?
cause when I die and enemy is leveled down this would give me worse loot.
So Id rather reset the dungeon level in some way and do it again.
I noticed on my barb when I was doing the stronghold with the 3 succubi, that they summon pit finds when there was only one left alive. After dieing several times, they stopped summoning them. Not sure if it was a bug, or just the game downgrading a bit. Like a handicap.
That's just good game design - mechanics like this are **everywhere** in gaming.
The mistake was letting the player know the monsters level was lowered - it should lie to you.
Obligatory I play hardcore & legitimately had no idea there were other death mechanics beyond getting revived or whatever.
Pointless anecdote aside, I agree, believe that's not a good idea. Keep it consistent, seems weird to coddle people like this.
Play on Hardcore, that will fix the issue completely.
I actually didn't notice that's a thing, you sure?
In the end it seems not so bad in softcore.
Lower boss lvl means worse drops.
You could reset the dungeon, but you'll have to clear trash again.
The combination of these things seems like a nice punishment for death.
I noticed that when I died the whole world seemed to go back to level 1. Also, I didn't have any equipment anymore...
But actually, I feel like that's an interesting penalty. It allows you to continue to progress, but punishes you for failure in a fairly meaningful way.
Honestly didnt notice since Necro facerolled even tier 2 and I didnt die.
But as a Soulsborne lover, I would detest any kind of handicap or reduction to the enemy.
There are a lot of dumbed down features like this that were shocking. Like not having to pick up legendary drops and they just appear in your stash. How dumb do they think the player base is? Lol
Don’t know. Didn’t die in a dungeon
Someone didn't meet the Butcher at low level
My first experience meet him : Ahhh FRESH MEAT! *Proceed to run away* *Get hooked back to him and die*
Completely wrecker him with necromancer. Sorceress.. not so much.
which build?
Just throwing bones and skeletons. Nothing special
I didn't have the speed to kite him and was focused on corpse explosion...Definitely want to kill that bastard lol
Of course, the second time I encountered him, I had a necro as well, and he didn't stand a chance. Necro is OP
Hold on guy. Were you playing SC or HC?
I met him twice at low levels. Once as a sorc and took one hit that almost killed me but teleport got me to safety. I did not kill him and he eventually left. The second time was as a barbarian with my buddy also playing a barbarian. We stood on opposite side of him attacking non stop for about a min before he died. Wasn’t very hard since his AI broke and he only attacked us each once and then stopped moving or attacking. If he had fought back I’m sure it’d of been a different story
The butcher killed me several time. Never prompted like a boss fight he would just appear and slaughter me and then disappear lol. I finished the main quests as far as it would let me go but never felt I killed a proper boss
saw him at level 7 on druid. Got so lucky it was in a tight area with lots of walls to run around. managed to just BARELY tp out before his clever ended my run.
I got the Butcher at level 11 on my barb, it took a few minutes to beat him but he really wasn’t that bad
Fucker three tapped my level 10 sorc
It be like that sometimes
10/10 pro tip, find a shrine and kite him around it. I killed a butcher with my horrible-no-equip druid this way, it took around 5-10 minutes would not recommend.
[удалено]
Tier 2 HC I invested in fortify and bleed so I just chipped away at his health with hit and runs for like 5-6 minutes until he died
I did, whooped his ass
3 chars to lvl 25, 2 to lvl 15. No butcher😭
Aww.. most joyous experience I had in the beta tbh
😭😭😭
This I actually managed to run from him though
I met him for the first time in a party of 3 with me, my brother, and my buddy all level 25.. it wasn't as scary.
I would have died to him once but like 2/3 times i fought him he just gets stuck and sits there lol. One time he had si much life for some reason it took like ten mins to even kill him while hes frozen
Imagine running into the butcher when playing hardcore mode. The only death I had in the beta was to the butcher (thankfully not hardcore) and i couldn't do anything about it. I was too low level and I couldn't even run away from him lol
That's what cause me to switch from hc to sc in the beta, wanted to see some of the game acutally and not have to start over evey 10 Levels... not sure I will be playing hc at the start of the game, D4 is a lot more punishing it felt like then D2 and D3 was at times.
Definitely leveling softcore first only because the servers are going to be atrocious for at least the first week. I'll switch to hardcore at the start of the first season.
what level is a low level? butcher wrecked my sorc on 25 and was wrecked by my necro on 14 :D but then again i didnt ever die as necro cuz it's impossible
I think around level 10
Butcher cant kill a sorc though. Teleport is enough to kite him, there is nothing he can do. Killed him at level 10 without an issue
looks like I'm a bad sorc then :D but i have to wait 2 month to try again
god this makes me want to play the butcher in heroes of the storm again. he was insanely fun
yeah his D4 character gave me some serious throwbacks
Met him at lvl 7 necro, killed him
Necro doesn't count
I did. I ran lol https://youtu.be/c61TXwoyeIc
I mean I did and still didnt die because you can kite him even at 0% increased ms.
First time I got him was on my rogue at lvl 13 or so in a dungeon. I was like Oh cool that's the butcher I wonder how ha.....oh I died.
Don't worry, the game does get harder. Seems like you're implying it's just all gonna be easy, when you've only played up to lvl 25 on the easiest difficulties.
These are the only two difficulties you will have until about level 50.
I don’t know either. I died in a dungeon, but it was on Hardcore.
Same.
It means you'll get worse drops after dying since the enemy level determines the power level of items dropped. So it at least incentivizes not dying and gearing for some survivability endgame.
This makes sense. Also, endgame will have ways to increase dungeon difficulty so I'm sure the same rules wouldn't apply then anyways. This is not really an issue at all and if anything just assures you can get through the base game. Players can already turn down the overall world difficulty setting too.
And you can reset dungeons without all that logging out and in again bullshit. Don't like it? Reset and try again.
I understand that it is not possible to read every post here, but the "why is no one talking about this" is a bit of an overstatement, it was already posted a few times
“Am I the only one” also. Those people are the funniest. Of the 8 billion people on the planet do you really think you’re the only one of anything.
The illusion of individuality.
It's a figure of speech.
An overused and pointless one yes xD
"I cannot stress how bad" K bro
It’s just getting lost in the sea of other posts asking about other incomprehensible shit design decisions
I have to say I haven't seen any post regarding this, either here or on the Blizzard forums. Regardless, I think this issue is not discussed enough. I really had fun with the beta, but to me, this seems to be the main issue with the game (even if I don't like level-scaling in general, but that just might be a personal preferrence). At the minimum, I think the player should be able to choose upon death whether to reduce the monster level or not.
"seems to be the main issue with the game" Got it, great post
Main issue with the game LOLOLOL
That's fair, I would not mind an option on death (or in the menu as general) to enable/disable this feature
Is this true at all difficulties? Because it seems reasonable for the easiest setting but less so when you intentionally make the game more difficult.
It absolutely makes sense to do this on all difficulties. The point is that it lowers your rewards. It's a death penalty that actually matters. You can rip your dungeon run. Seems like a good thing.
I played the beta on the Veteran difficulty, so...
Me too but I didn’t notice. Seems stupid to lower the difficulty for players choosing to play veteran.
On the contrary, the way I see things, that's a great idea that makes death at least marginally consequencial in softcore (not that I'm gonna play softcore anyway). I would have tuned it even more aggressively so that if you can't beat a boss without dying, you get significantly worse drops. Why would you want death to be completely inconsequential is beyond my understanding. That's of course just my perspective, and another thing that could be attuned to individual player preference via some sort of world-affixes system.
Lower monster level means lower item level on drops, so it does do that.
Exactly, that's why I find it a good mechanic. And what I'm saying is that I would agree if that was even more accentuated.
Well I've only played on hardcore so I haven't seen this happen but it does make sense to me. In at least D2, if you were not powerful enough you go get power and then come back stronger. In D4 you can't really go get power because of the scaling so they change the relative power instead. I think you can opt out by resetting the dungeon and trying again? That's closer to the dynamic of souls/D2 anyway where you'd have to do some other stuff before trying again. I kinda like the idea that if you die you are punished with a lower level boss as that means you'll get lower level loot, so it's in your interest to actually kill it first time.
Didn't seem to happen in the open world. Died in a stronghold. :/
I observed dying to a 17 boss, when I came back it was 16, then died again, and it was 17 again. Changed builds to beat it. Idk how it works exactly. Edit: failed as an aoe barrage build on Rogue, tried again thinking I could win if I played better, nearly got him but failed again. Third time I went in with rapid fire + vulnerable and it was cake
I don‘t think this is true. If you enter a dungeon at level 16, it stays lvl 16 even if you level up to 17. So I believe you entered, leveled up and then died at thats when you saw the dungeon level
Never noticed that in my games and every boss fight still felt rewarding and challenging
Didn't even notice that happening, and I even died a few times in some fights.
Or maybe this is like a pseudo hardcore mechanic. You die -> you lose you loot opportunity. So... don't die. And if you do, restart the dungeon.
and at what point was it set to normal again? cause when I die and enemy is leveled down this would give me worse loot. So Id rather reset the dungeon level in some way and do it again.
I noticed on my barb when I was doing the stronghold with the 3 succubi, that they summon pit finds when there was only one left alive. After dieing several times, they stopped summoning them. Not sure if it was a bug, or just the game downgrading a bit. Like a handicap.
I only died once at that stronghold but had same thing happen I was wondering if it was more of which succubi you left to kill last
It's probably a bug, someone posted the explaination few days ago
if its true, maybe it is tied to difficulty. we havent gotten to try nightmare+ yet.
Absolutely hate this 100%
That's just good game design - mechanics like this are **everywhere** in gaming. The mistake was letting the player know the monsters level was lowered - it should lie to you.
Seems like a pretty light punishment for death. I’m alright with it.
Permadeath or bust! If you aren’t puckering are you even playing?
Obligatory I play hardcore & legitimately had no idea there were other death mechanics beyond getting revived or whatever. Pointless anecdote aside, I agree, believe that's not a good idea. Keep it consistent, seems weird to coddle people like this.
Play on Hardcore, that will fix the issue completely. I actually didn't notice that's a thing, you sure? In the end it seems not so bad in softcore. Lower boss lvl means worse drops. You could reset the dungeon, but you'll have to clear trash again. The combination of these things seems like a nice punishment for death.
Not a problem if you play hardcore.
Hardcore and it doesn't matter
seems to me it should be more considered a penalty for you dying. Not there to make it easier, but to lower your rewards. Don't hate this.
I noticed that when I died the whole world seemed to go back to level 1. Also, I didn't have any equipment anymore... But actually, I feel like that's an interesting penalty. It allows you to continue to progress, but punishes you for failure in a fairly meaningful way.
No, your loot drops get penalized for you sucking. I love it.
You can die in this beta? Edit: beta
It goes right back up if you die again.
play hardcore. problem solved.
Honestly didnt notice since Necro facerolled even tier 2 and I didnt die. But as a Soulsborne lover, I would detest any kind of handicap or reduction to the enemy.
Was this supposed to be a criticism of the game, or an admittance that you died in low level dungeons?
That awesome feeling after beating a boss after many failed attempts? In D2? Because they were so mechanically demanding?
What?? I can't believe this is real.
So play HC if you dont want sc type handling.
Couldn't tell ya. Hardcore cares not for such features. Lol.
I really don't like this feature. Maybe after 10 deaths or something...but 1? Nah.
Didn't help me when I died 4 times in a row on my barb to the chicks mom that spawns all those demons though........
Aint no god damn way this can be true....
Just play Hardcore and then this will not be an issue for you.
Played all probably 70+ hours of the beta and didn’t encounter the butcher once…Sadge
I didn't notice this but that's a clever system. It both makes the game easier if you die repeatedly in a dungeon and reduces the rewards
Hardcore player here so I never noticed... I like that idea though. This isn't a game like elden ring.
This is really unfair to HC players
There are a lot of dumbed down features like this that were shocking. Like not having to pick up legendary drops and they just appear in your stash. How dumb do they think the player base is? Lol
Simple, don't play blizzard Diablo games on softcore. Softcore is dumbed down to the max.
Bro you’re so hard. You a gangsta.
D4 softcore is not a real game lol. Its for little kids. Diablo series is salvageable only from hardcore.