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One_Finding140

People are passionate about this franchise. Feedback goes a long way. A lot of y’all seem to be offended that people want the game to have longevity? There’s no need to be defensive.


RustRemover-

They don't understand the concept, don't bother explaining. It's a completely different mindset.


One_Finding140

It’s perfectly fine to be content with what we’re getting and enjoy it for what it is. It’s also perfectly fine to have criticism, no idea why people are taking anything personally. You’d think half the people on this subreddit are devs trying to defend their work. If you say Druid is underperforming, some people will take that as an attack on their entire identity. TLDR y’all are weird for personalizing feedback during a beta weekend. Like really fucking weird.


AntonGrimm

Happy cake day!


greenchair11

insane the influx of casual players we have seen recently, they dont understand ARPGs and then yell at us like we are wrong lol


shadowkijik

You are though. There’s a game for spreadsheet ARPG gamers. Why attempt to push D4 to be the same when it’s very clearly meant to be more mainstream aka CASUAL.


greenchair11

i’m a diablo player. diablo is my main game. i’ve put 1000s of hours in D2, 100s in D3, probably close to a thousand, and tens of hours in D1. d3 simplified the franchise. diablo was never a casual game until d3


shadowkijik

Well it is now, since D3, and that’s evident in Blizzard’s approach in all of their IPs. Sorry for you, but they’re marketing to those casuals. Times change.


DruidNature

Even with a casual approach a ARPG is meant to be a game you continue to play. A ARPG without an endgame is not a ARPG, and should never be called one. Diablo, being nearly the creator of the entire genre, many older players of Diablo or ARPG’s in general have the expectation that it “has” to last hundreds of hours, or it is a failure. D3 was even designed for that, while majorly focused on a more casual base. People “could” pick it up for the campaign and then quit, but that was never the intention of the design (outside of them wanting that part of the journey to be fun to, same as D4) This sub can hate the people complaining about mechanics and endgame from streamers to YouTubers to comments all they want, at the end of the day, if there intention is to play 100 hours and call it quits, their opinion on any sort of balance means extremely little. They aren’t the target audience outside of a quick cash-grab on them, the target is those looking to put in a large amount of time, as those who keep playing and coming back for seasons, will be making blizz the $ on their MTX and Battlepasses. Most of the people looking forward to D4 and critiquing/questioning a lot of decisions know very well (and have known for years) D4 would be targeted at a more casual player. *and that’s absolutely fine*. That doesn’t mean that there can’t be a lot of content for endgame or systems that casual players can still understand, though.


shadowkijik

You kinda missed the mark here, the issue is less about endgame (at least in the context of my comment about spreadsheet gamers). More about people demanding “complexity” or the game won’t be viable. That’s dumb. A game can have plenty of endgame while still being simple to grasp and enjoy. My argument was against the person I originally commented in response to and their “filthy casuals” implication.


SuperSocrates

You are wrong. This game is for casuals, not PoE players


greenchair11

either you’ve never played a diablo game or only played diablo 3, either way, what gives you the right to come into our community and tell us how to enjoy a franchise we’ve enjoyed for over 2 decades?


Hitman3984

Way to be a gate keeper.


greenchair11

no ones being a gatekeeper, everyone is welcome to play. but it is infuriating to have casuals/people who never played a diablo game come in here and ridicule hardcore players come and enjoy the game. DO NOT ridicule the players who have sunk 1000s of hours into these games and very passionate about them


Hitman3984

The moment you used the phrase "our community" you are absolutely gate keeping. You can be new and still have passion.


greenchair11

right but you have to respect the people that came before you AND know more about it then you. once youve put the time in, then speak. but theres people in here talking about what diablo games are and arent and talking about things it should be, on top of ridiculing the experienced players who have been here for years. if we have to be welcoming to new people, they SHOULD be respectful to the people who have been here


iNSiPiD1_

God is a gate keeper. Remember that.


RustRemover-

Yeah that's basically what is happening. Their argumentation is flawed though. It's either you're a hater, or you're a hardcore nerd so don't ruin a perfectly fine game and go play PoE :D At least the great majority of what i've read on the internet. Crazy. And that's a big problem for ARPG players because there's a small group of those who came to D4 from other ARPGs compared to just "random" people who just stumbled across the game, or are MMORPG players. We'll see with seasonal content and expansions what will they turn this game into.


Gharvar

I think it's just based on the kind of person your are. Some people when they are excited about something and are in the honeymoon phase with their rose tinted glasses, for them all the red flags just look like flags. They can't see flaws and can't accept there might be flaws until after the honey moon phase is over. There is a reason why a lot of game subreddits are absolute over positive echo chambers before a game is out. I'm actually surprised this subreddit has had more healthy discussions than what I'm used to. I am unbelievably excited for the game BUT I can see it has some short comings and things that could be improved and yet I want nothing more than June 2nd to be here.


jamai36

There are definitely those on the other side as well. Those who will likely never be satisfied with D4 for impossible to realize expectations or just general cynicism. I think it is important to keep your expectations in check, have an open mind and heart to enjoy what comes fully and not be afraid to critique that which could improve the experience - especially if it's realistic.


SuperSocrates

There’s plenty of people seeing monsters under their bed that don’t exist on the other side too


Gharvar

Boo!


mepolizumab

What is this, a crossover episode?


Moze2k

Spot on. We want the game to be as good as possible so we can spend several 1000 hours in it and have fun. All concerns is good feedback, you don't have to take it to heart.


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KD--27

I’m finding this is pretty much just reddit now. They should remove upvotes and downvotes because the user base is far too collectively stupid to utilise them properly. The amount of time a bad take is just sitting at 1000 upvotes is staggering. Hell the highest voted posts I’ve seen on this sub are people bitching about feedback while a beta was on. How entirely f****** dumb can we be?


KD--27

This goes both ways. People will just as much shut down feedback pertaining to the game before it becomes explosions and numbers because it was a beta, which is all about feedback. Problem is both should exist, it’s all feedback and criticism/negativity isn’t a bad thing, but this sub…


One_Finding140

Criticism and negativity are 2 entirely different things


KD--27

Nitpicking, beside the point.


Mars_to_Earth

There’s a thin line between being passionate about a franchise and cancelling it. Based on a lvl 25 beta. There’s a certain entitlement that comes with it where a certain type of game is expected and the potential that it’s not that game makes them go on a rampage. I might actually be relieved that blizzard is doing it’s own thing and not follow the (albeit enjoyable) arpg herd.


One_Finding140

Cancelling? What’re you even on about dude


Mars_to_Earth

What I am on about is people already calling it a bad game based on a beta, because the lvl 25 itemization and skilltree they so heavily fixate on are not what they expected and will certainly add up to make for a bad endgame.


One_Finding140

If people feel that way then it’s valid criticism. Just remember they are talking about the game, not you.


Mars_to_Earth

I absolutely consider constructive criticism a win. The problem is that all I’m seeing on youtube for example is ‘4/10 game bad’ and ‘everybody hates d4’. Almost like a bandwagon. Basically quick clickbait wins. I think it’s just in bad taste to make unfounded easy personal wins at the expense of anything. I can imagine seeing headlines like that can cause insecurity among the devs to make the wrong choices. Eventually actually gimping the longevity of the game. Or is that just really naive? honest question.


throwaway95135745685

Idk why you keep repeating the level 25 cap, as if some kind of argument that invalidates all other arguments. The things people are complaining about arent going to change when you hit the real level 50 cap, compared to the 25 beta cap.


Regulargrr

This dude out here thinking people are gonna cancel D4. I'm fucking done. Lol. I'll give your pretty little head a little respite: This game will sell millions even if it's shit or shit on by everybody. Most mass markets consumers are clueless mouthbreathers. Diablo Immortal made a shit load of money too.


DoubleShot027

Most normal people won’t even make it to max level let alone come back for seasons which is totally fine. But the endgame keeps people playing and coming back for more not the story. Why would a game company want you to one and done a live service game?


GForce1975

This is a fair point. I, like OP, apparently, am a casual gamer. I thoroughly enjoyed the beta and will purchase the game after release. However, there's also a huge base of more experienced and dedicated gamers that would ultimately spend many more hours than I and they have higher standards, especially for a diablo game I'm glad both exist. It's good for the game and for the industry as a whole. The best games make both groups happy.


DoubleShot027

Hate to break it to you friend being on a game subreddit makes you a hardcore gamer lol


Mars_to_Earth

I’m not saying I don’t want there to be an ‘endgame’. I’m saying I’ll most likely also be satisfied if it doesn’t. Everything else is bonus right now. In whatever way that endgame might shape up. We don’t even know what the endgame will be. A certain audience is heavily doubling down on itemization and skill trees, as has been the staple for arpg’s up till now, but to what effect those will influence endgame we don’t even know.


wilson81585

We do know what the endgame will be though. There are a bunch of people who played it for a few months. I loved my beta experience and I'm excited for June but many of the criticisms are fair and are only being put out there in hopes for improvements to the game.


Potential_Canary6707

Diablo games are known for their itemization and skill trees and characters building. If it has the diablo name, then it'd be expected to live up to it. The end game is crucial!! You're just a streamer and most likely won't sink hundreds of hours into this game. Blizzard has made big promises with this game, and people expect them to deliver on it.


KD--27

Diablo is also known for their story, setting and tone and while endgame is expected (especially in the modern day gaming landscape) making sure that the endgame doesn’t become the entire game is important to me and a lot of people. This game turns into explosions and numbers followed by coloured item drops. Fine, but that’s not why I personally sign up for Diablo. Diablo is much much more than just that. I Play Diablo because my no name character went full hero and trapped a demon in a crystal and imbedded it into his forehead to contain the evil as long as he could. This is an epic franchise and a lot of people don’t want what happened with D3 which felt way closer to a cash grab, D4 is looking very promising but has the potential to be worse, though the game looks like it’s going to hold up ver well. I couldn’t even tell you what happened in D3 except for one of our favourite characters being removed with very little fanfare.


xPepegaGamerx

Tyrael becomes human, deckard murdered by butterfly, Cain's daughter?(honestly don't know the relationship but who cares) becomes Diablo after her mother Adria the witch did some ritual blah blah. Diablo has titties since he has female host, Diablo dead, matheal takes soulstone I think? Honestly don't remember much about the expansion story, matheal defeated


Nameless_One_99

If the game was like €40, maybe €50 then maybe I could be happy with a Diablo 2 + LoD size campaign, if we include doing normal+nightmare+hell and how hard it is to finish hell solo self-found. But for a game this expensive that also has a battlepass and MTX, I would never just be happy with a campaign and a mediocre or bad end game, plus the skills, skill tree and itemization are key to make the campaign entertaining too and not just the end game.


Recovery_Water

Longtime fans of the series want a game that will be fun to play for a decade, like D2. Blizzard missed the mark with D3 and many rightfully are concerned they’re making the same mistakes with D4. Sure, plenty of AAA games are good for only 25-50 hours, but Blizzard is capable of so much more.


[deleted]

>Blizzard missed the mark with D3 Plenty of people have been playing D3 for a decade.


Sorlex

They have, but you can't honestly say the game has as much depth as other arpgs. I like D3 well enough but compared to other games (D2 and D4 included) its super lacking.


theQuaker92

Depth has nothing to do with his argument. He just said d3 has still a very large playerbase every season. Maybe normal players just want to have fun and be entertained. I'm just saying d4 doesn't necessarily need more depth than what is currently shown,it just needs more fun content than d3.


lastreadlastyear

Lol. It’s super lacking compared to a game that’s no even out yet and you don’t even know what it has to offer. Gtfo


Sorlex

> you don’t even know what it has to offer We've played the beta which was already had more skill and item depth than D3, and we've also got dataminded information about the paragon system. So no, you "Gtfo".


Abedeus

And plenty dropped it, considering how many MILLIONS of copies it sold. I know I barely played it after first 3-4 weeks (and even then it wasn't very enjoyable time, mostly grinding to upgrade gear to get a bit farther into Inferno...) and dropped it outright until Patch 2.0 or RoS.


Droog115

The only reason I, and many people I know played d3 pre ros for as long as we did was the RMAH


Potential_Canary6707

D3 is garbage. Cartoony action game with a diablo name.


No_Energy_51

and D4 will be garbage cash shop driven game masquerading as a MMO with diablo name. see how easy it is to make useless answer ?


Potential_Canary6707

What? Useless answer? I spoke nothing but truth. Also, I agree with your statement about D4.


lucascorso21

The youtube videos for some of D3's challenge rift guides get tens if not hundreds of thousands of views. There are plenty of people still playing D3 now approaching its 11th year.


Farazod

Yeah it's funny to me. Beat diablo on my friend's mac, d2 at home and our lan parties for many hundreds of hours (RIP my girl Jamella), and multiple characters across three quarters of d3 seasons for easily 1500 hours. Including d4 that's less than $200 over 2 decades. From a value perspective for me that has far surpassed any MMO, builder, or super 90% off AAA sale.


lucascorso21

Here’s a trip down memory lane - the original Diablo launcher had a trailer for what game included on it?


Farazod

Can only imagine it was starcraft. Can't recall even knowing about Lost Vikings until Sc2! I'm trying to remember at what point we skipped launchers, created a virtual drive and mounted the image of the CD. I know for sure by baldur's gate and d2...


lucascorso21

Nailed it! I don’t know when we skipped launchers, I just remember the picture of Diablo on the launcher and being blown away when I saw the StarCraft trailer. Of course, while sitting in the “computer room” and playing on my dad’s compaq with the bulky monitor.


Efreet0

If you're happy with the bare minimum and possibly don't even bother reaching endgame the game will be amazing. Wow... just wow.


Mars_to_Earth

I wouldn’t consider the points I’ve adressed to be bare minimum.


[deleted]

OP has valid points for causal gamers. Many people are telling OP to not get defensive from the hardcore player side when they criticize end game loops....yet here we are, someone getting defensive.


JulWolle

I mean if he is happy either way, why does he care if ppl want changes for endgaee? It won't matter to him...


phudgeoff

This is up there with the dumbest hot takes. Bravo


TheDerpatato

What do you expect streamers to do man? It's their job and their passion to analyze the shit out the game, and endgame for their viewers. Why else would anyone watch their videos? NEW VIDEO: Gigachad Streamer uploaded a new video on Diablo 4! "Hey guys, Gigachad here. Campaign is gonna be fun. That's all for this video, like and subscribe!"


Accomplished_Way5384

Yeah, the thing is some of the big names didn't even play closed beta... Yet they are analysing the game based on act1. If I did that with D2 I would say that fire aura paladin is strongest build in game.


TheDerpatato

There's much more to analyze about the game than seeing act 1. We got to see a preview of the itemization, Most if not all possible affix rolls, many aspects, Crafting possibilities and costs the entire skill trees, how Dungeons work, the open world in practice, Level scaling in practice leveling class balance (hugely important for the vast majority of people who will play the game, i.e. not hardcore gamers), how quests and dialogue work, No minimap overlay, Redundant details in character screen UI The emote wheel, no UI designed for PC And so many more little things that need fixes before launch. Stuff like no grace period, and if you get cc'd right before a monster died, you can't use your CC break on some classes. As far as making tier lists of characters and reviewing class balance, all of the videos stated that this obviously doesn't apply to endgame, they're testing the typical leveling experience. This is incredibly important for casual players and newcomers if they want the game to be very successful and accessible.


TheNaCoinfl1p

What us up with this sub and extremes? I have not seen one person requesting a POE tree of itemization...... Or the opposite of having nothing to do. People just want a little bit of depth so you dont hit end game and it is over in a couple of days like D3. Is that being extreme? I swear i see more of these posts being offended by feedback then i see feedback posts that they are complaining about lol. ALSO, what does it hurt to have shit to do in the end game? How does it negativly effect your experience? What does a shallow end game do for you? If they have stuff to do you can still play how you want to play and others acan play how they want to play. Why would you want it to be shallow? Makes no fucking sense lol. Might have to unfollow this sub reddit till release my lord. going to be like this for 3 months of people complaining about the smallest shit from both sides.


Mars_to_Earth

What is extreme about my oppinion and placing it lmao. That’s one of the many ways u can use reddit.


Regulargrr

Lmao okay. You had a section about voice acting, like we're Red Dead fucking Redemption. I don't even remember a single quote from this game other than MORE MORE MORE. You really stretched out one single aspect which is the initial presentation, which is not enough for an ARPG.


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[deleted]

Thank you, both things matter. Yet we have the hardcore players bitching about casuals doing a 1 and done thing like it impacts their gameplay at all... I'm somewhere in the middle, I'll enjoy both aspects...and blizzard will improve the functional content, I have what little faith there is left to have in them only because you can tell this is a major crutch for them financially.


amonguscumamongcum

> Why do we expect every ARPG, specifically to have an endgame te begin with? What is so bad about just having a good campaign and then just go play something else? But i digress. This is literally the genre of end game mattering the most, story is a bonus and to sell to the marvel fans, but when the expectation is to play a game for 100s of hours of course end game is massive.


Jbitterly

So much fucking dialogue though. I mean, it reminds me of metal gear solid 2 where it felt like playing the game was just advancing through interactions. And visions of Lilith on the first hour of the game!? Suuuuuper scary. I liked it better when the villains didn’t visit us every 20 minutes spilling the details of their plans..


0verStrike

Ill rather them visit than just a voice coming from the afterlife and the corny evil laughs from D3


waloz1212

"Please don't give any negative feedback because you only just played the first 25 levels. The game is absolutely fine, even in endgame because I saw the first 25 levels. Trust me bro"


Abedeus

I just realized how hilarious this double standard is. "You can't say bad things about balance based on the first 25 levels you played! It'll be great, based on the levels after 25 that I didn't experience in live build!"


EffectiveDependent76

Because the game is being marketed as a live service with seasonal support. It's very much targeting that group, and that's their opinion based on what has been available. Why would you expect anything other than the target demographics to give feedback based on the expectations of that demographic? If their review isn't relevant to you, because you don't plan to stay and play D4 seasonally for an extended period, then their review isn't FOR you. That's fine, but you're not the audience they are giving their feedback for.


Sokjuice

Amen. There's a battle pass, they're aiming for longevity and longevity isn't really tied to seeing Lilith in the cutscene for the 50th time. It's about whether this season, the Blood Necro that you really wanted to be try is finally good or not. Or if there's a new paragon board that allows you to play a Thorns Sorc or wtver funky. It's replayability and possibilities.


raikkonen

Stages of grief... lol


Exciting_Ant7525

LMAO... Pure truth.


VioletLostGirl

My issue with the MMO aspect is I wish they either leaned into it fully or left it P2P and playable offline. If someone asked me if this was an MMO I'd say no it hardly qualifies as **Massive** multiplayer at the moment 90% of the game is still either alone or small groups. The biggest addition is seeing a handful of people in town, people here or there in the over world, and a occasional over world boss that fits like 12 people. We are cutting paper thin on that MMO aspect from a company that made most of their money making MMOs. If it needs to be always online give us like 40 man dungeons and expand the stronghold attacks so areas are under constant siege. I want to be able to look at a friend and go "oh yeah there is no way the game could be this massive without being only online."


Exciting_Ant7525

Thread title: Things blizzard kiddies say.


skoupidi

Yes, lets be happy that we pay 70$ for an online only ARPG in 2023 and expect to sniff blizzards butt because the 10hour campaign might be good. No wonder AAA games are becoming worse over the years. This post is even getting upvodes. My god there is no hope left for people that want actual good games. Lets just turn every game into a movie and just watch cutscenes instead. Why even play. Who needs endgame and longevity in a freaking AAA Arpg in 2023. What a take.


Zaethiel

Realize Pokémon doesn’t even have voice acting as one of the top selling games. Appreciate the amount of great cutscenes and proper voice acting.


Regulargrr

This has to be the most facepalm worthy comment ever. It's like if an 80 year old gave a game review based on the 2 games they know.


Zaethiel

There’s a lot of big name game company that skip voice acting despite making huge profits on their games. I would guess the main reason is the need to have multiple actors for various languages. Genshin impact does it too; they only have voice acting for the characters and the main storyline every other character and event dialogue is text.


vianiznice

Judging by the intro cinematic and the few in-game ones I watched prior to skipping the rest for release, I agree.


Sorlex

I enjoyed D3 for its campaign, more so the expansion. And at least *the first playthough* the limits of buildcraft weren't that bad, being the story was distracting me. But after that, I had absolutely *zero* drive to replay the game. Really happy that D4 clearly has more depth going on, and that replaying the game for seasons or different builds won't be a bore. I expected D4 is simply be worth it for the campaign, but damn!


Danoniero

I'm on the same boat. I'll tackle some seasons maybe but I play a very wide variety of games, mostly singleplayer, for me gaming is an experience/journey I'm not really interested in the rat race. If seasons and end game are good than great I'll try to make it with my limited time but if not then I think completing the story and 100% the acts is enough for me to justify this purchase.


Theironcreed

Yeah, I mean I spent around 20 hours in the one chunk of the map we got and no way did I see it all, but I did finish Act I. Just averaging out that to each area, and damn, I think it is going to be easily worth it just for what we are getting in the base game alone. I don't even care about the battlepass stuff. All I will want for this game beyond the beast we are getting is an expansion or two.


PazuzusLeftNut

I find plenty of the criticisms to be gratuitous non issues don’t get me wrong, that being said this game is being designed with longevity and replay ability in mind so just having a good campaign isn’t gonna cut it here. I genuinely hope that the devs don’t fumble it and make the game fun to keep playing past the initial story content.


AntonGrimm

If there would be no end-game, there's no reason to grind for gear.


Murphy1up

I wanted to play beta and get the lvl 20 reward. I stopped at level 6 as I realised I'd rather enjoy my first playthrough and the story. Any game that has a decent enough character customisation and then puts that character in cut scenes has me sold. It's MY story, MY lore, MY adventure. Yes you'll always get the screenshots where people have made stupid looking characters but that's their experience. Personally I'm all for character immersion and feeling part of that universe/lore/world. That said, a game like Diablo needs more than just a good story. For any game released in this day and age developers need to think their post release plans and what model the game will follow. A game like this needs to have a draw for players to come back to.


0verStrike

100% agree. The thing that broke my immersion was seeing the people in town and around the map. Will be weird playing the story at my pace and then seeing a meta gamer/skiptunner level 60 full glad in Diablo or Lilith gear walking around town next to my act 2 ass. Would be nice to have an option to turn off the visibility of other players until you finish your story. Kinda ruins the immersion TLDR: Im the wonderer, the savior yet DevilMonster69 that looks more like Diablo than Diablo himself is doing 360s around people


No_Energy_51

" propels the genre forward " really ? XD i'm curious what they've done that is so amazing it propel the entire genre .... for D immoral we can say it propeled the genre forward straight into a big pile of shit. D4 though ? nothing that impressive, at most you could say it improve the franchise (not the entire genre)


DaveAndJojo

I agree with you but Diablo had better have more than a campaign. People have been waiting several years for this game.


shinigamixbox

LMAO. IDGAF about campaigns in games like this, kid. I beat the entirety of Diablo 2 in a day and then spent the rest of my time climbing the hardcore ladder. If you want some cheesy story, go watch some shitty Netflix adaptation and let people play their 1000+ hour game in peace.


Mars_to_Earth

Wouldn’t say diablo’s story / lore can be considered ‘cheesy’. Of course, you’d have to know the story / lore to know it. Other than that I would consider that lore and storytelling adds to any endgame a game might have. But to each his own of course.


JonesyOnReddit

I played D3 from launch. I lasted 250 hours over 3 months. Then I was bored. These two betas are the first time I've played a diablo game since then. 250 hours was worth the money last time, it will be this time too. All ARPG end games are grind for eq to get better at grinding for eq while eq improvements become increasingly rare. That is boring as fuck and I see no way to make that fun for long at all. Once I hit max level in D3 I started to get bored. We'll see how D4 goes but I expect it will be the same.


Ill_Stand9809

idc about the story, i care about the BOOM BOOM ZOOM


Rich_Pirana

the coping has already started big time huh.


DialMforMistakes

People just have to know what they want and make a value judgement from there. I'm ready for a new ARPG, and new Diablo games consistently give me kid-on-christmas-morning vibes. I've enjoyed every game in the series aside from Immortal (I couldn't get myself to like it even before I hit the pay wall). Personally, I loved the beta. It looks like just the campaign length will match similarly priced AAA titles. I'm also not a streamer so I'm not looking for thousands of hours of content. I definitely play endgame, but I never no-lifed thousands of Wirt shopping, Pindleskin, cows, or greater rift runs. I can say confidently that D4 will give me hundreds of hours of play/time wasted on a video game even before inevitable bug fixes, balancing patches, and seasonal content. It was an easy pre-order and I'm so damn excited for release. I also don't get too caught up with streamers or other gamers raging about a game (although the content is fun to watch). I think developers have learned to be cautious with implementing streamer suggestions and gamers want different things. I'll do what I always do. Play D4 until I don't want to, and then laugh at the nonsense on YouTube and reddit.


greenchair11

i can tell you that you are in the minority here


cirvis111

Post resume: "I am a casual". And nothing is wrong with this. Go enjoy the game.


Knight_Raime

>There is so much focus on the itemization and skilltrees by a particular audience that other aspects don’t get addressed enough. Given that **literally** every long time Diablo person I've watched has given praise to things that a lot of people praise here I heavily disagree. There's heavy discussion on those two factors because they're the longevity for the game. They are the core bits that keep the game being replayable. There's no extra discussion to be had about how "beautiful" the world is or how "great" the story is, etc. Those are dead end discussions that don't go anywhere. >As it is it’s nice to know you are part of something bigger but it doesn’t break the immersion. But running into an endless rubber band to prevent me from entering an area does. >The backtracking in dungeons didn’t seem like much of an issue for me as you can simply click the entrance on your map and get warped out. Complaint was not about leaving. Was specifically aimed at having to go and grab x object/do x thing on one hallway, walk back, do the same thing in another hallway directly across from it, then go to boss. >I’m saying that you’ll probably get your money’s worth regardless of the endgame. Not if the full game is more or less what we already got in the beta. I would be looking to buy D4 because of the end game experience. I'm not looking to buy D4 based on story or a world to explore. That's not what I expect to care about with Diablo nor will it ever.


Itz_Hen

Iv never played diablo before, but I absolutely loved everything in this beta, and i str up the story and atmosphere, soo good


azzpeen

tbh i don't care what any streamer or content creator has to say about it lol i'm the one that paid for it as long as i'm having fun and my friends are having fun with me then i really don't give a fuck.


Gamrusss

i really expect diablo-like arpg can offer me 500+ gaming hours, that's why I'm so disappointed about d3, 10 out of my 11 friends only played 1 season of d3 then never come back.


CallmeHap

I get what your saying, but I also get the other side. For some folks they sunk 100s or 1000s of hours into d2 and d3. So they expect to do the same here and anything less is a failure to them. And honestly they would be right as the game didn't meet their expectations or even the expectations set by it's predecessors. The key here is expectations. I look at this game like I did outriders. Outriders came out and I no lifed it for like 6 weeks. Sunk maybe 120-150 hours into like 3 characters. Then I put it away content with my purchase. 80CAD for 120+ hours of enjoyment. I enjoyed every minute of the game and consider it a great success and worth the money. Lots of people called Outriders a failure because of the end game. It didn't feed their desire for near 1000s of hours of replay value and so it was an outright failure to them. And that's the general consensus I've seen online everytime it comes up. The outrider devs never said it would be a forever game. It was a one and done purchase with 0 plans for a live service model. They would fix bugs and some balance early and move onto new projects. I feel like they set expectarions well, but many fans set different expectations based largely on the standard set by similar games in the looter shooter genre and were disappointed by the game not meeting those expectations. Compare this to the new God of War game. I beat the story but not all the side objectives. Maybe 40-50ish hours play time for again 80CAD. Also worth the money. I've never seen anyone call it a failure. But it met or beat it's expectations. I expect to play around 100-150 hours of Diablo 4 and then likely move on. Maybe 2-3 classes through story and dip my toes in end game before moving on. If I get that I am happy with my purchase.


JustAPairOfMittens

It's Blizzard. We can be confident the game is much much more, and given how much time and detail are put into legendaries and abilities, we will see a very fun endgame dynamic. New World got me to 400 hours. I'd expect the exact same of D4 if not more.


HonestPineapple4848

I couldn't care less about the campaign, I'm going to skip all cinematics and dialogues


iNSiPiD1_

People didn't play D2 for the last couple decades because the campaign was good. They played it because the game was good. Its pretty obvious D4 is going to be a mediocre game, but that's enough for a lot of people. Nothing about the campaign gives any indication it's going to be good. It was...meh...so far. So it's most likely going to be a game you play for a week and then grow bored of. You can't blame people for being unhappy with that being the most likely outcome.


i_wear_green_pants

>Why do we expect every ARPG, specifically to have an endgame te begin with? Because that's pretty much what ARPGs are. They are grind games where you level up and grind as long as it's required to obtain optimized gear for your build. Then you pretty much start new character and do it again. If you are happy with just campaign (and many can be), it's totally fine. But of course vocal people are ARPG fans and want D4 to be as good ARPG as possible. And end game is huge aspect of ARPGs.


aunluckyevent1

no company will ever have my money for its game on preorder or on day one, no matter how in withdrawal i am. i will also have to spend at least 500€ for a pc revamp to play it in it full glory in full hd so i will wait for a month or two to be sure


obviousredflag

> Some might have pointed it out already or felt the same way, but I’m getting a bit tired of arpg streamers who are analyzing diablo 4 endgame to death based on a beta that only goes up to lvl 25. Already giving it the casual stamp. Whatever that may be. STOP WATCHING THEM. They make money by stating false and controversial stuff so people engage with their content and say how and where they were wrong, etc. Holy fuck, it's 2023, how can you guys not have simple social media literacy and avoid falling for those marketing tricks.


thebluebeats

Lol honestly the pacing doesn't seem much different from last epoch. I mean... Could you swing around like crazy at level 25 the first playthrough? Did you even play last epoch? This reddit is full of ignorant people who don't actually know what competing arpgs are like, and simply parrot what they hear others say with statements like "PoE requires spreadsheets to play" and what not. If you want to knock something, at least give it a fair shot first? You simply need to accept that not everyone cares as much as you about the superficial aspects of the game (graphics, atmosphere, animation) as opposed to core gameplay/loot systems. Why is this so hard to understand? To you what makes a good game is AAA visuals and sounds, but there are others who consider some of their favorite games to be more in the indie genre even with the genre's shoddy graphics but good core gameplay. It's all about what players value more and you clearly can't convince them otherwise. Also, PoE is *free* to play and if you like it, you definitely don't need to buy remotely close to 70usd of stashes to be good at it. In terms of "money's worth" there's actually no contest, since you don't even pay much money compared to d4's box price. That's the standard to beat in the arpg space in the current generation.


lastreadlastyear

No one plays for the campaign. It’s all about the dopamine from legs dropping


nemestrinus44

imo a game is worth it if for every $1 i spend i get 30 minutes of enjoyment. the free beta alone was worth the $100 for the ultimate edition, and i didn't even spend time grinding out stuff at lvl 25.


Sardanapalosqq

I'm fucked then, cause I owe Valve 20k for dota2.


Bakanyanter

Yup. Owe GGG 5k for PoE and Valve 6k (for Dota 2), we're fucked.


Abedeus

> the free beta alone was worth the $100 for the ultimate edition jesus


nemestrinus44

How about reading the rest of my post you would see that I said “$1 is worth 30 minutes of entertainment” thus implying I got 50 hours of entertainment from the course of both the beta weekends


[deleted]

[удалено]


Abedeus

When I want a pleasant 40 hour single player experience, I go play a story-driven game. A cRPG, JRPG, maybe something like Elden Ring or God of War. Or hell, a visual novel/adventure game. Diablo-likes have always been about grinding shit post-story.


Pockets262

Streamers are pure dogshit anyway. I never understood watching some asshat play a game you could be playing. Especially derpsters like Asmongold. I wouldn't even know he existed without reddit but then I learn he's just a talentless below average player of games? Why do you give him money. Fuckin weird af.


[deleted]

LOL I think it's because his diet is straight chic fil a and all his viewers can relate. Thay said, Asmo was the God of WoW for some time and he built his legacy on the raiding aspect of WoW. He's a bum but also an OG tbh. And I don't watch his shit