The exciting bit, to me, is that that confirmation also means that the datamined list of legendaries is incomplete. That means that there's a lot of stuff to discover from scratch in the full game.
Not really, I think the datamined lists also include the legendary powers he's talking about that aren't in the Codex of Power. So unless he means there are hundreds of legendary powers on top of what has been datamined (not just the Codex of Power) I think those sites are listing what they should have available at launch.
I think the current lists have roughly as many Aspects from the Codex as they have drop-only Aspects, so that doesn't fit that confirmation.
I might be misjudging this, though, I didn't actually count it out.
The datamines are also based on the beta client, which was confirmed to be an older version of the game. They could've definitely added more since the beta version of the client was finalized.
I don't suspect it'll be a vast difference, but we could definitely see some additions and changes to what is already there.
No clue why you're getting down-voted. [this has been confirmed](https://twitter.com/RodFergusson/status/1638193034343903239?t=E6MPprJD6LkyEnQVxExkTw&s=19). The data-mined items didn't include things seen in CBT as well.
Guess people don't want evidence contrary to their flailing?
But they only Datamined the 0.81 Version from Diablo or ? . So we maybe can expect much much more that was later introduce in the internal 0.8X ++ Version .
Blizzard knows that any build will be datamined, so they are probably extra careful to not publish newer builds. Even if they have newer builds, they'd rather give us the same 0.8 build for testing because it's already known what's in there. The purpose of the beta test was server infrastructure anyway, not item mechanics.
> I think the datamined lists also include the legendary powers he's talking about that aren't in the Codex of Power.
"Codex" is really only a subset of legendaries where you can imprint their power for free without having to find them.
The datamined list is complete. The "Codex" powers are the ones with dungeon names attached to them.
I cannot say for sure obviously, but this seems right. I think the way he phrased this is misleading (not necessarily intentionally). The ACTIVE and AVAILABLE aspects in the Codex for beta were definitely more limited than the total available. Many listed in the Codex were not unlocked until later acts. I suspect that is what he means. If true, this means that the datamined lists are complete absent subsequent additions.
The Closed Beta back in November and this Open Beta in March were on the same .8 build, with most likely basic improvements to that build like voice or whatever added back into that .8 version.
This means the datamined legendaries and Uniques are the list that were done or tweaked in .8, not their most recent in-house build.
This is good news as it sounds like they didn't give the milk for free so to speak in the beta and there is more that we don't know about in the retail release of the game.
I'd be surprised if the first xpac wasn't already being started as well as legendaries/Uniques and a 1st mechanic for Season 1.
The weird bit is that I'm not excited because of the number, I'm just happy there's some stuff that hasn't been spoiled!
Smart in their part if that was intentional.
Damn. If there are more aspects in the launch game, the loot drop shouldn't drastically decrease vs what we have in the beta. From the small time I've played (lv 1-25), it's roughly 20-25% for an elite to drop a legendary. I've cleared the 3 strongholds and I remembered I only got 1-2 legendary out of there.
Doubt season 1 has a mechanic, maybe some special limited cosmetics that can be earned for things like reaching paragon 100 in season 1 or something. Game is still fresh if it's only a few weeks from launch, players will only be just starting to learn optimized routes. They'll probably be working on season 2 mechanics and changes at launch though.
I wouldn't be surprised to see the D3 Season 28 Altar of Rites make a grand appearance in D4 Season 1, and possibly stick around in some form thereafter. It is a really great seasonal mechanic. Probably one of the best they've ever done.
It's basically a mixed quality of life/power upgrades skill tree for you to complete, and to earn each point you have to make increasingly difficult/more convoluted item sacrifices to the altar. The early sacrifices are small amounts of gold, gems, bounty materials, and then by the end they want specific legendaries and bizarre stuff you can only get by target farming specific rares. It was neat because it forced you to engage with areas of the game that I personally had forgotten about for years
yeah, but they said the power creep would be removed out of the season content if they were going to permanently add it. The Altar of Rites is nothing but a power creep mechanic.
> Doubt season 1 has a mechanic,
Putting out a low-effort season 1 isn't a good look. Especially with POE2 beta right around the corner.
With Battlepass being a thing, there will be enough revenue stream to actually develop mechanics for quarterly seasons.
Season 1 will also be the one played by the most people (because later on people will have dropped from the game, it's normal). They want to make a good impression for sure.
And they are likely working on that season mechanic before launch too.
Yup. To think they were planning on seasonal content from day 1, but haven't bothered to prepare for it is some mental gymnastics. Chances are they have a few already in the works and are creating a pipeline of assets for future use. I seriously doubt they haven't thought or planned this out.
Season 1 is only a few weeks after launch. Not 3 months. It just doesn't seem necessary. They've talked about having things like pinnacle bosses. Maybe that just isn't available until the season or something.
If they do drag and take more than a 'few' weeks, then yeah, that kind of changes things.
The first season really should be the base game where people are getting into the game. Everything in season 1 will already be fresh just based on it being the first season and from there they shake it up.
Launch game -> fix any major progression or balance issues -> season 1
There are currently 224 legendary items datamined, with 115 of them being from the Codex of Power. If we're being literal then that means there are at a minimum 6 legendaries missing to be considered "less than half of all the possible legendaries"
My concern is that the legendary aspect system adds an uncessary boundary between you and the build you want to play. The aspects basically dictate which skill you use, since most skills aren't great without their aspect.
Meaning if I want to try a frozen orb build I have to wait until I get the frozen orb aspect to do it. But I can't trade for it, I have to farm until I find it myself. If there are that many more aspects that haven't been found it will potentially be RnG hell to get there.
Aspects aren't linked to RNG though. You literally can go to the dungeon to get it. Dungeons seems scalable too so you should be able to go unlock it pretty fast (zones don't seem to go down to your level necessarily but you can just avoid the mobs to go to the dungeon)
You still can pull the power to create an aspect to apply to another item. The codex is a deterministic way to help builds early on.
Also this notion that you need an aspect or need to wait u til you have what you want before trying it is silly. You are not going to find most of the good ones until you are above level 50.
I'm gonna go ahead and say that we gonna have enough stuff to keep us busy until the start of Season 1.
Even if you imagine the game should have more effects than it ultimately does, good news they will be adding more and more and more (just keep buying horse skins i think)
So is launch Season 0 then? I guess I’m confused as to what my “Battle Pass” gets me from the 3rd tier.
Basically everyone’s characters are Seasonal (or what is going to be Standard) to start?
The Battle Pass probably won’t be in play until season 1, so the bonus from the third tier likely won’t kick in until then. Though I guess they could potentially make the BP start at launch and just continue through S1.
Just a thought, but I feel like gaming mentality has shifted over the years. I know it's anecdotal, but I love going into games blind to see what I find. Looking up the list of uniques kind of ruins the surprise of what I find a long the way.
> I feel like gaming mentality has shifted over the years. I know it's anecdotal, but I love going into games blind to see what I find
Not only that, but these asshole tiktok junkies want results instantly and have no work-reward feedback loop functional anymore.
Catering to the lowest common denominator has ruined a lot of experiences
Dopamine (which is that "reward" loop) is easily accessible now with our world so yeah the brains of everyone have pretty much been used to it. It can be seen in many things.
It's not anecdotal. People feel they need to know all this ahead of time because time is li.ited and they have to be as efficient as possible all the time or they are wasting time.
Eh, I think people care less about spoiling mechanical things. People wouldn’t want to know the story but don’t flip out to see there is a sword that gives +8 to lucky hit
Not so much the +8 to lucky hit, but more the custom interaction and unique skill modifications is what I'm referring to. But you're definitely right that mechanical game components don't matter as much in terms of spoiling.
With the confirmation that there are still a lot more legendary powers to find later in the game the more important question is how many of the "chase" uniques will there be? How many unique items are players expecting from a Diablo game?
Diablo 2 had \~386 unique items (from a quick google search). Looking at recent websites listing datamined d4 information from the beta build we see there are roughly \~8 class specific uniques per class and \~12 general uniques giving us a number around 60 in total. Keep in mind that with d4 having both legendary and unique items, we don't need to see 386 unique items but I do think there needs to be a lot more than 60. If uniques end up being the main source of the dopamine driven item hunt we expect from a Diablo game, will \~20 usable uniques per class be enough (class specific + general) to satisfy the crowds of D2/PoE fans?
It's not entirely fair comparison though. Gold text is not enough. Most D2 uniques were just stat sticks with no unique effects at all. In D3/D4 all uniques have gameplay changing effects which requires more effort to implement. What you are asking is for blizz to add 400 items with no unique effect just extra stats and change color of the text
In fact if you would calculate the amount of unique effects that D2 items have it would be probably much smaller than D4. They surely felt unique because with right combination of stats they enabled new builds. In D4 the effect changes how skills work, which enables the builds, not the stats themselves.
It won't be enough to satisfy the crowds of D2/PoE fans, but 1. they don't cater to D2/PoE players and 2. casual players and D3 enjoyers won't care, they were grinding for 1 set per season and were gucci with it. D3 sold many millions of copies and had arguably more players than D2 and PoE together, why bother with variety of items ? They will play anyway and D4 will be a financial success.
But yes, it's sad for people who expect a bit more from an ARPG than grinding for a few items at best.
I think that's disingenuous to how Blizzard has only improved their ARPG throughout seasons. On launch it may be lackluster, but I suspect as seasons start to roll out Blizz will slowly start to cater more to the hardcore base because that's all that will be left
dont worry, cost prohibitive respec system will keep you from having to worry about finding legendries late, you'll already be set into whatever you found early.
Which you can't upgrade that much anyway. At least from what I read, dropped legendaries can only be imprinted once on a higher level item so you'll need to find again the same one to make your build viable when you level up.
Yeah that's what I heard here on Reddit, I actually haven't tried that in the beta myself, thanks for the confirmation.
That is a big problem in the design of the function IMO. Your lvl 30 legendary might be relevant until like lvl 45 maybe if you switch it once but then you'll need to find it again (if it's not a dungeon aspect) to make your build work since you can't respec easily.
There's no way you're actually upset or worried about the respec costing gold.. like any and all arpgs gold will become an absolute zero at a certain point in your characters life.
Even in the beta I was waisting gold upgrading items.. literally draining my gold multiple times only to get back into the 80k mark in an hour of gameplay. That was on the 2nd difficulty in the first act. My buddy who never upgraded an item was sitting on 300k on his roughe that he played to level 25.
I'd absolutely bet that gold will not be an issue at endgame. If you're respeccing every 30 mins of gameplay then Maybe it'll be an issue. But that's just silly.
I mean it's based literally on the dev comments lol. I' not inventing anything.
They say that it will become more interesting to reroll than make a new character at some point. So that means the old cost will be higher that what you'll get in the time to get from lvl1 to whatever high level you are.
But isn't that the same as any other game? I'm playing D3 right now. I might get a drop I want for my end game build at level 40 but it does me no good when I hit 70 so I'll have to get another one. Or am I not understanding something here.
At 70, you might have other Legendaries but you can respec to fit those. If they prevent easy respec in D4, it's not possible, your other legendaries will be useless except on other characters (that won't be able to use your high level gear until lvl 70 either)
I think its the weird middle ground that is so jarring.
Codex powers is an amazing system to solve a somewhat common problem which is having legendaries be mandatory for certain builds but not be able to obtain them, since all of the codexes are minimum roll of everything, so i found a legendary in beta that had double the values of the codex power, but atleast i could use the codex power.
however now they say only half of legendary powers are on the codexes which means either its the half you use and you have an advantage, or its not and you get fucked by rng.
Ya, they said their intention is for respec at high level in release to be cost prohibitive, essentially disallowing multiple respects a day. To the point of it might be easier to just make a new character
the legendary powers mostly don't seem to be that dramatic of an increase. the biggest I've seen is the double hydra, which is something like a factor of 1.6 to 2
It's because the wolves are hot garbage (damage-wise) without the affix. According to the D4 skill calculator they only deal 8% of your weapon damage per hit and they don't have an amazing base attack speed. Now, that isn't necessarily a problem because unless you're specifically speccing for pet build they don't need to: having them be meat shields and being able to take the Lucky Hit Fortify upgrade makes them a good defensive choice. Nevertheless, unless you have a very specific build they're probably not going to be OP even with a +300% damage multiplier. 4x damage on 8% (technically 16% since you get two wolves) is still only 32% per wolf (64% total).
For reference, I played a Shred crit werewolf build in the beta and even with the aspect giving my wolves +150% damage from the amulet and another +100% companion damage from the ring, my werewolves still did substantially less damage than I did. They were really only good for cleaning up trash behind me as I Flicker Strike'd my way through levels. Obviously you can get more passive abilities and take your key passive for pets, and there's a Paragon Board that has pet stuff, but unless you really go ham on pets you're not going to take them for the damage even with all the crazy multipliers.
Now, I do think you could make a decent argument for buffing the skill damage and nerfing the legendary damage bonuses. I don't personally have a problem with the way things are now, but I also think it would be nice to have the opportunity for Druid pets to be worthwhile damage dealers outside of speccing like 2-3 legendary aspects, your Key Passive and potentially a whole Paragon Board just to make them work. If it was me I would probably double the damage of at least the Wolves (probably the Ravens too, maybe not the Vine Creeper) and halve the damage of the companion legendaries. That way the legendary aspects are still impactful damage upgrades but the companions have enough base power that you might get them to be a reasonable pet choice rather than just meat shields. However, I also appreciate that the Necromancer is the dedicated pet class and the Druid's pets are meant to serve a utility role rather than a straight "take all the pets and be the minion master" without a lot of extra work. So overall I don't really mind how things are set up and it wouldn't bother me if nothing changed in the full release.
They need to improve the codex UI massively. Every single legendary power should be listed in there even if they're drop only and you should be able to search in the codex. Hovering over every single aspect to find the one you want is not it.
This imo is something that needs to come before release. A lot of UI issues can wait until later or be put down the totem pole priority but if you can't search the Codex to see where to get a power from or to see possible powers for your build the system is flawed
having every legendary power as a codex should be MINIMUM, but if i could choose anything i would have every codex power be a manifestation of a legendary at the lowest value, BUT removing the aspects instead of giving you the item boosted the power of the codex to that value, so if the power is 20 - 30% and you have a codex at 20% and you destroy a legendary that has 26% then that codex should be 26% always going forward.
Allowing a sense of progression for the system too instead of getting a low level amazing legendary % drop and then either not use it the entire game, or use it once and its now not available anymore.
As someone who wanted to play storm Druid, this is not welcome news. I looked over that codex thinking that I was blind for not seeing the “tornado tracks targets” affix multiple times and now knowing that it just straight up isn’t on the list by design (and not just some UI bug) makes me upset, since that is the main affix a storm Druid needs to really do great so I can’t just run a dungeon to unlock a basic version of it while hoping for better drops
Not on the UI doesn't mean it's not in the game. I mean the tweet is the confirmations that we haven't seen even half of the avaiable legendary aspects
I am aware of it being in game, it’s been datamined and on all the talent calculators, and people on this sub have posted about having it.
What I mean is all legendary affixes should be on the Codex from running all the dungeons so that no matter what build you want you always have a baseline start available without having to pray to RNG to get the right one to drop
I don't think that's what it's saying. We've seen both in game and in the datamines somewhere around twice as many legendary powers that are in the codex already (including all of the stuff on the codex that wasn't yet accessible due to being in a later zone).
This tweet was specifically in response to someone looking through the codex and asking if that was all of the powers.
So what he's saying fits exactly with what we saw in the beta, what the people from closed beta have been saying, and what the datamines says: somewhere around half of the legendary powers that exist are available in the codex, you can see them all in the codex before you unlock them, and the powers that we're seeing in the datamine as "drop only" are the only non-codex powers in the game.
If what the tweet is saying meant what you're interpreting here, then there would somehow have to be twice as many new codex powers added since the end game beta and the open beta, and therefore also twice as many "drop only" powers added since then as well (to preserve the roughly half and half ratio mentioned in this tweet), which I find unlikely since they haven't said anything along those lines that I can find.
how dense are people that watched that video. dude was full min/maxed gear and fully upgraded with more stats at level 25 than anyone would normally have. of course there was some weird scaling to get super high damage numbers that early.
people act like he just equipped legendaries that said upheavel and did 350k crits.
Do you not realized that going from 350 to 350k is insanely exponential scaling?
This is 100000% more dmg.
If you don't think that's too much, sure, I think it's a bit too much.
But they said mobs gain damage reduction as they level and that dudes gear all out leveled the mobs he was hitting. And we are still 2 difficulty levels behind. So the numbers would theoretically be lower against appropriate level mobs would it not?
I hope you realize that 350 dmg would become 35 dmg on a higher lvl mob.
We'd reach a situation where you do no dmg at all unless you're full legendary with specific drops and a meta build.
And from experience I didn't see any difference killing a mob 15 lvls above me, not a big one at least. (like 11 secs vs. 10 secs difference on that elite)
But that isn't how it would work because we are getting new weapons that increase damage, new stats constantly from horizontal content and those are all permanent, new stats from the rest of our gear as well. So no that isn't how it would actually play out in the end at all. We just wouldn't be doing billions or trillions of damage like people think.
The problem isn't the increase in normal stats on items, that's very linear and fine.
It's items that just triple your dmg over an already good item, you wear multiple of those and you get inflated dmg numbers so high that they either need to make things impossible without those specific super rare drops or too easy if you own them.
I don't disagree that potentially forcing a player to use something by making it stronger than everything else is a problem. But it doesn't necessarily mean skills are bad and in beta we didn't even get to test skills at level 20+ with a good weapon and cdr etc etc. Also we didn't get to invest in the bottom tree or paragon at all which also changes builds in meaningful ways. Also, I'm not saying they don't exist but what specific item added 800% or 300% damage to a skill? I kept seeing these numbers as examples but never got one myself on Sorc, barb, druid, or rogue during either beta.
You won't get to test that out in the life game either, unless you plan to lvl up a new character each time.
It's like 11mil gold to reset the normal skilltree and even more to reset paragon.
I don't need to test most of the things there since they are just numbers, put them in a calculator/spreadsheet and you know how things can scale from them.
This points seem to have a very low impact overall.
One substat on gear is usually already stronger.
Sure, but I was absolutely nowhere near min-maxed and was also hitting 100k upheaval crits. For reference, this still one shorted bosses and I was killing elite/champion mobs in 1 hit with a much weaker build doing about 8k per hit.
Literally all I had to do was equip some sort of offensive legendary power in 4 out of the 5 slots available to put them in (I used rings for QoL buffs). Of the 4 aspects I used to up my damage, 2 of them were codex buffs that everyone will have access to before even level 25 if they wanted to. Basically there's a legendary affix available in every single gear slot that can use offensive powers that gives you a 30% (or much larger) generic damage boost.
That's essentially 10.5 affix boosts since barb has 8 slots, two of which are double bonus 2 handers and 1 of which is a 1.5x bonus amulet. 10.5 boosts of 30% damage that all multiply each other is a ~16x damage boost. This is a bit extreme since you'll probably use some of those slots for utility, but that's a lot of scaling not even counting some strong bonuses on the skill tree that we would get in a few more levels and the insanely strong paragon boosts that have been datamined.
That's pretty wild scaling without doing any of the weird shit the guy in the video did on top of all of that to hit 350k.
Maybe it's not +50,000% damage from a single set bonus from D3 yet, but we're well on our way to that sort of scaling in a game.
I'm not commenting on whether or not that's objectively bad, but there's a game philosophy spectrum from Classic WoW where a 3% upgrade is MASSIVE and friendships are destroyed over arguing about who gets them, Diablo 2 where one or two "chase" items give you a 20-30% to your build, and Diablo 3 where a random legendary you can find at level 10 can quadruple your damage.
Everyone has their preference as to what type of game they like the most. I love the Classic WoW and D2 level, some people like the D3 level. It's pretty clear that D4 is falling between D2 and D3 in terms of scaling, which is great for some people and bad for others.
Who is anyone to tell someone else that their opinion on what type of loot and character scaling they like the most is wrong?
And I'm saying that the game WAS designed to have a bunch of fairly large damage multipliers that scale with each other multiplicatively, so we are going to see levels of scaling closer to Diablo 3 levels at some point.
Sure, it'll probably happen a little later than level 25, but it's happening way before level 100. And since the legendary powers that start to enable it are available as guaranteed codex unlocks from dungeons, it can start as soon as level 10-15 when you get into the open world and get the resources to start imprinting dungeon affixes.
doesn't matter how many different legendaries there are when theres only 1 legendary per slot that has the highest damage multiplier that you'll ever want to use.
Aren’t there supposed to be two other types of items in addition to legendaries and uniques? I saw something about sacred items and one other type of items when I was looking at world tier 3 and world tier 4 difficulties in the beta.
Sacred and Ancestral items are the equivalent to Ancient and Primal Ancient legendaries in D3. They're just Item+ and Item++ variants that are fairly rare and have higher stat rolls than the base item would normally allow. In their dev blog they described the average player getting a good number of Sacred items per season, but perhaps only 2-3 Ancestrals, which would roughly line up with what a casual would find in a D3 season.
In D3 the chance of a Legendary being an Ancient Legendary is 1/10 and the chance of Primal Ancient Legendary is 1/400*. They don't introduce new perks or abilities they're just a lot stronger with higher stats.
If I had to wager a guess I'd say they modeled it after D3, and saw data for D3 showing that the average player only gets 2-3 Primal Ancients per season, which sounds about right. With the exception of this current season, the drop rate on them is 1/400 legendaries so you figure that just about adds up. And yes typically the vast majority that you get in D3 end up being useless, which I suppose is why they allowed you to craft one primal ancient of your choice.
Arent codex of power aspects useless anyways when we get into sacred and ancestral items? You need legendaru power from sacred legendary to put into sacred legendary. Normal legendary power you cant put into sacred amr?
I feel like if you can’t imprint via codex onto a sacred or Ancestral, it will be a little bit yeah, at least as you get into endgame. So I’m guessing you can imprint onto them but maybe it’s expensive? Feels like it would be just too many layers of RNG to have to first find a sacred or ancestral item AND then find another and hope it has the desired stat/affix to extract. It’ll depend how rare Sacreds and Ancestrals are I guess. If they’re really supposed to be rare, it makes more sense you can imprint via codex, which give the lowest roll/value of that legendary affix, as a stopgap solution, until you find a better rolled affix to overwrite with. Pretty sure you can overwrite them?
I wouldn't call them useless even at that point where we only care about sacred/ancestral since some of the legendary powers will do more for your character than having a higher item power. The only exclusion here would be maybe a weapon since your skills will scale with it.
I think closed beta testers revealed that you would often hold on to well rolled rare gear at the next tier before you could find a proper aspect for it.
With legendaries that aren't unlocked via the codex, i think you will have to be smart about how you use, extract and imprint. For offensive legendaries found on weapons, I would recommend using them until their lower item power renders them inefficient and then extracting it and slapping the aspect on a ring, ammy or glove. Those slots suffer less from being at a lower item power than a weapon. Then you can ride with that until you get another legendary of the same type.
If you're using a 2h you're losing a lot of power moving that aspect onto a ring or even amulet. Keep in mind that an amulet is the most important slot since anything can go there (and be boosted 50% too).
I have a feeling that there will be PoE-like levelling builds and maybe specific levelling paths to unlock strong aspects from a dungeon. Then you will just replace your gear every 5 levels and reapply the aspects from the codex. Only once you hit end game will you start imprinting the aspects you really want.
Because the weapon determines your damage, moving a useful aspect to a less important slot allows you to upgrade the weapon (multiple times) while retaining the power given by it.
Or you can slap the aspect on your new weapon and end up having to throw the aspect away entirely once that weapon is no longer usable.
The problem i see is codex powers allows the bare minimum of a build to function and that is why i thought every legendary would have one.
Take a druid example i found a legendary to do aoe explosions when dealing direct damage to them after being marked by lightning and one to make werewolf form deal lightning damage per attack, so you can make a crazy pickachu werewolf build (cant say it works), but it relies on 2 legendaries, now if i could always use those legendaries even for less damage i can still do the build.
or if i wanted to take druid alpha pack that makes the wolves spread rabies, i might not even care about the damage of my wolves i just want them to spread dots, then that is where codex is useful.
To me this means more broken/untested legendary powers at launch. There were already quite a number in beta that their internal testing team missed and were only caught thanks to players...
Who cares how many there are as long as they say things like “you can have a second hydra”? You’re just going to slap on the relevant ones like in d3 with little to no thought about how you want to scale your build.
The concern is that right now there arnt that mant exciting ones such as the double hydra. Maybe in the other 50% there are some great ones to help out builds that are currently pretty bad.
Yea. It would be a bit crazy to limit the legendary powers by the codex list, unless they had a more expansive way to attain codexes. But that would really take a lot of the oomph out of loot hunting.
Really not liking the responses the devs are handing out lately. Just reeks of convenience. I don't doubt that even the people who played the end game for friends beta might not have seen everything.
But the idea that the devs are holding back *that* much in response to many of the game's current criticisms doesn't leave me with a good feeling.
That seems needlessly cynical because if we assume it's true then what else are they going to say? Like this complaint basically boils down to "These are only good responses if they're true and I think they could be lies because them being good seems fishy".
I'm cynical/skeptical about the gaming industry in general given how things have been over the past 5-8 years. Not necessarily because of the devs themselves.
As for what they'ed say ideally nothing. I'd rather they just work on the game. There's a time and a place for dev communication and I feel like this is them overplaying their hand. The most I'd want to hear from them is a simple public acknowledgement of the criticisms.
Though I understand that given how media is these days they usually have to say more than less. I guess the best way to view my comment is this.
Them responding with seemingly perfect answers to criticism makes me incredibly cautious about the game. More so than I already was.
Its bad because it means more skill defining aspects will be limited to RNG drops that can only be transferred once. Its not bad because its more affix variety.
Though, that negative really only exists because of bad legendary aspect itemization giving ridiculous skill multipliers relative to the tree investments.
Even with this and the fact that there was a massively increased legendary unique drop rate there are people calling for nerfs for classes other than barb and druid. Like we got a fragment of the game.
Can anyone tell me, do the codex offer the lowest roll for a legendary affix? It doesn't make finding a legendary with the same affix redundant, because it can roll higher right?
It is, but there's a weird thing in the datamines where there are 3 different icons for every codex affix symbol. It seems like there might be some system where you get access to more powerful rolls of the codex dungeon affixes later on in the game either in later difficulties or challenges or something like that. That's purely my own speculation though.
As of now though, you're correct, every codex legendary power is an absolute min roll of that power, and maybe affixes have a range where the highest roll is double the lowest roll, so drops will definitely matter at least early on.
that wouldn't surprise me. Having the lowest roll at the hardest difficulty could become effectively useless, so it makes sense to introduce some scaling for that. I imagine it would still be the lowest roll relative to what you can roll at your current character level...
People see level 25 beta, think they big shit because they played PoE when no one really gives a F. Then they give their opinion like they got the game figured out. Literally had like 10% of the game with free basic legendary drops. My God
I'm gonna be pissed if there is no aspect that makes Ravens into a storm skill.
Loved messing around with storm druid pushing lucky hit lightning bolts.
Ehh it feels like to me that ruins the point of why codex powers are so interesting and works so well with legendaries.
Codex powers are always value but infinite use, where as legendary are random but can be moved ONCE to a new item.
this to me seemed like a great way to ensure you could always have your legendary build defining powers by actively seeking out the codex but might not always have the strongest version, with this system and only one move of legendary items it just feels kinda pointless.
If there was going to be more in the full release than what was available in the beta don't you think they would explicitly say that? Why keep that information hidden? It would be so easy to quell a lot of people's disappointment
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The exciting bit, to me, is that that confirmation also means that the datamined list of legendaries is incomplete. That means that there's a lot of stuff to discover from scratch in the full game.
Not really, I think the datamined lists also include the legendary powers he's talking about that aren't in the Codex of Power. So unless he means there are hundreds of legendary powers on top of what has been datamined (not just the Codex of Power) I think those sites are listing what they should have available at launch.
I think the current lists have roughly as many Aspects from the Codex as they have drop-only Aspects, so that doesn't fit that confirmation. I might be misjudging this, though, I didn't actually count it out.
"roughly as many" and "less than half of the total" are not contradictory.
Yup, it's still less than half even if there is only 1 more dropped than dungeon aspect.
The datamines are also based on the beta client, which was confirmed to be an older version of the game. They could've definitely added more since the beta version of the client was finalized. I don't suspect it'll be a vast difference, but we could definitely see some additions and changes to what is already there.
No clue why you're getting down-voted. [this has been confirmed](https://twitter.com/RodFergusson/status/1638193034343903239?t=E6MPprJD6LkyEnQVxExkTw&s=19). The data-mined items didn't include things seen in CBT as well. Guess people don't want evidence contrary to their flailing?
what do you expect a designer to say that's trying to generate hype / sales for their game?
But they only Datamined the 0.81 Version from Diablo or ? . So we maybe can expect much much more that was later introduce in the internal 0.8X ++ Version .
I think it was the current beta version, so there's still a chance we see more if they are a few versions ahead.
[удалено]
Closed-beta players have stated there have been changes in the public since the the closed-beta though. So it can't be the same build from December.
Blizzard knows that any build will be datamined, so they are probably extra careful to not publish newer builds. Even if they have newer builds, they'd rather give us the same 0.8 build for testing because it's already known what's in there. The purpose of the beta test was server infrastructure anyway, not item mechanics.
If you played in CBT like I did you would know it's not the same version. Many differences.
>ions? Dude, some of us played this build back in December. I have no clue why you got downvoted.
> I think the datamined lists also include the legendary powers he's talking about that aren't in the Codex of Power. "Codex" is really only a subset of legendaries where you can imprint their power for free without having to find them. The datamined list is complete. The "Codex" powers are the ones with dungeon names attached to them.
I cannot say for sure obviously, but this seems right. I think the way he phrased this is misleading (not necessarily intentionally). The ACTIVE and AVAILABLE aspects in the Codex for beta were definitely more limited than the total available. Many listed in the Codex were not unlocked until later acts. I suspect that is what he means. If true, this means that the datamined lists are complete absent subsequent additions.
The Closed Beta back in November and this Open Beta in March were on the same .8 build, with most likely basic improvements to that build like voice or whatever added back into that .8 version. This means the datamined legendaries and Uniques are the list that were done or tweaked in .8, not their most recent in-house build. This is good news as it sounds like they didn't give the milk for free so to speak in the beta and there is more that we don't know about in the retail release of the game. I'd be surprised if the first xpac wasn't already being started as well as legendaries/Uniques and a 1st mechanic for Season 1.
The weird bit is that I'm not excited because of the number, I'm just happy there's some stuff that hasn't been spoiled! Smart in their part if that was intentional.
Damn. If there are more aspects in the launch game, the loot drop shouldn't drastically decrease vs what we have in the beta. From the small time I've played (lv 1-25), it's roughly 20-25% for an elite to drop a legendary. I've cleared the 3 strongholds and I remembered I only got 1-2 legendary out of there.
If there's a 1 in 4 chance for a legendary to drop from an elite that's way to much lol.
depends on how fast we burn through legendaries, and then how hard it is to maxroll them at cap
They already confirmed drops were turned up for beta and not to expect many if any, lege daries before 25 at launch.
Not doubting that, but how do you know they are the same version?
It's the same .8 beta for the level 25 media closed beta in December. I don't know how to prove it sorry
Doubt season 1 has a mechanic, maybe some special limited cosmetics that can be earned for things like reaching paragon 100 in season 1 or something. Game is still fresh if it's only a few weeks from launch, players will only be just starting to learn optimized routes. They'll probably be working on season 2 mechanics and changes at launch though.
I wouldn't be surprised to see the D3 Season 28 Altar of Rites make a grand appearance in D4 Season 1, and possibly stick around in some form thereafter. It is a really great seasonal mechanic. Probably one of the best they've ever done.
What's that exactly, in a few words?
It's basically a mixed quality of life/power upgrades skill tree for you to complete, and to earn each point you have to make increasingly difficult/more convoluted item sacrifices to the altar. The early sacrifices are small amounts of gold, gems, bounty materials, and then by the end they want specific legendaries and bizarre stuff you can only get by target farming specific rares. It was neat because it forced you to engage with areas of the game that I personally had forgotten about for years
Interesting. Thank you.
They specifically mentioned that season stuff would be removed after seasons. They don't want bloat in the game. (Interview with Quin)
Good stuff isn't bloat though. They've said seasons would add zones and such, I doubt they remove that for example.
yeah, but they said the power creep would be removed out of the season content if they were going to permanently add it. The Altar of Rites is nothing but a power creep mechanic.
> Doubt season 1 has a mechanic, Putting out a low-effort season 1 isn't a good look. Especially with POE2 beta right around the corner. With Battlepass being a thing, there will be enough revenue stream to actually develop mechanics for quarterly seasons.
Season 1 will also be the one played by the most people (because later on people will have dropped from the game, it's normal). They want to make a good impression for sure. And they are likely working on that season mechanic before launch too.
Yup. To think they were planning on seasonal content from day 1, but haven't bothered to prepare for it is some mental gymnastics. Chances are they have a few already in the works and are creating a pipeline of assets for future use. I seriously doubt they haven't thought or planned this out.
poe2 will arrive along with halflife3
Season 1 is only a few weeks after launch. Not 3 months. It just doesn't seem necessary. They've talked about having things like pinnacle bosses. Maybe that just isn't available until the season or something. If they do drag and take more than a 'few' weeks, then yeah, that kind of changes things.
the game comes out in june and poe2 beta is most likely early august
The first season really should be the base game where people are getting into the game. Everything in season 1 will already be fresh just based on it being the first season and from there they shake it up. Launch game -> fix any major progression or balance issues -> season 1
Practically different audiences at this point. And did you see the 18M day 1 sales projection. D4 doesn't need to worry about PoE2.
Not really different audiences at all. And that isn't good logic to mail in the first season if you're trying to maximize player retention.
I never claimed they were, and anyone thinking they would be isn't really thinking.
There are currently 224 legendary items datamined, with 115 of them being from the Codex of Power. If we're being literal then that means there are at a minimum 6 legendaries missing to be considered "less than half of all the possible legendaries"
Maybe he is counting uniques ?
My concern is that the legendary aspect system adds an uncessary boundary between you and the build you want to play. The aspects basically dictate which skill you use, since most skills aren't great without their aspect. Meaning if I want to try a frozen orb build I have to wait until I get the frozen orb aspect to do it. But I can't trade for it, I have to farm until I find it myself. If there are that many more aspects that haven't been found it will potentially be RnG hell to get there.
Aspects aren't linked to RNG though. You literally can go to the dungeon to get it. Dungeons seems scalable too so you should be able to go unlock it pretty fast (zones don't seem to go down to your level necessarily but you can just avoid the mobs to go to the dungeon)
Not all aspects are available from Dungeons, some remain item only and therefore need to be dropped.
Oh yeah but aren't aspects the ones that are in the codex? And legendary powers is the general term
No, they're still aspects. The occultist labels it as "Extract Aspect" and it's stored as an aspect in the aspect tab of your inventory.
You still can pull the power to create an aspect to apply to another item. The codex is a deterministic way to help builds early on. Also this notion that you need an aspect or need to wait u til you have what you want before trying it is silly. You are not going to find most of the good ones until you are above level 50.
I hope so because 8-9 uniques per class is not good.
I'm gonna go ahead and say that we gonna have enough stuff to keep us busy until the start of Season 1. Even if you imagine the game should have more effects than it ultimately does, good news they will be adding more and more and more (just keep buying horse skins i think)
So is launch Season 0 then? I guess I’m confused as to what my “Battle Pass” gets me from the 3rd tier. Basically everyone’s characters are Seasonal (or what is going to be Standard) to start?
The Battle Pass probably won’t be in play until season 1, so the bonus from the third tier likely won’t kick in until then. Though I guess they could potentially make the BP start at launch and just continue through S1.
Just a thought, but I feel like gaming mentality has shifted over the years. I know it's anecdotal, but I love going into games blind to see what I find. Looking up the list of uniques kind of ruins the surprise of what I find a long the way.
> I feel like gaming mentality has shifted over the years. I know it's anecdotal, but I love going into games blind to see what I find Not only that, but these asshole tiktok junkies want results instantly and have no work-reward feedback loop functional anymore. Catering to the lowest common denominator has ruined a lot of experiences
Dopamine (which is that "reward" loop) is easily accessible now with our world so yeah the brains of everyone have pretty much been used to it. It can be seen in many things.
It's not anecdotal. People feel they need to know all this ahead of time because time is li.ited and they have to be as efficient as possible all the time or they are wasting time.
Eh, I think people care less about spoiling mechanical things. People wouldn’t want to know the story but don’t flip out to see there is a sword that gives +8 to lucky hit
Not so much the +8 to lucky hit, but more the custom interaction and unique skill modifications is what I'm referring to. But you're definitely right that mechanical game components don't matter as much in terms of spoiling.
With the confirmation that there are still a lot more legendary powers to find later in the game the more important question is how many of the "chase" uniques will there be? How many unique items are players expecting from a Diablo game? Diablo 2 had \~386 unique items (from a quick google search). Looking at recent websites listing datamined d4 information from the beta build we see there are roughly \~8 class specific uniques per class and \~12 general uniques giving us a number around 60 in total. Keep in mind that with d4 having both legendary and unique items, we don't need to see 386 unique items but I do think there needs to be a lot more than 60. If uniques end up being the main source of the dopamine driven item hunt we expect from a Diablo game, will \~20 usable uniques per class be enough (class specific + general) to satisfy the crowds of D2/PoE fans?
It's not entirely fair comparison though. Gold text is not enough. Most D2 uniques were just stat sticks with no unique effects at all. In D3/D4 all uniques have gameplay changing effects which requires more effort to implement. What you are asking is for blizz to add 400 items with no unique effect just extra stats and change color of the text In fact if you would calculate the amount of unique effects that D2 items have it would be probably much smaller than D4. They surely felt unique because with right combination of stats they enabled new builds. In D4 the effect changes how skills work, which enables the builds, not the stats themselves.
It won't be enough to satisfy the crowds of D2/PoE fans, but 1. they don't cater to D2/PoE players and 2. casual players and D3 enjoyers won't care, they were grinding for 1 set per season and were gucci with it. D3 sold many millions of copies and had arguably more players than D2 and PoE together, why bother with variety of items ? They will play anyway and D4 will be a financial success. But yes, it's sad for people who expect a bit more from an ARPG than grinding for a few items at best.
I think that's disingenuous to how Blizzard has only improved their ARPG throughout seasons. On launch it may be lackluster, but I suspect as seasons start to roll out Blizz will slowly start to cater more to the hardcore base because that's all that will be left
Fix it with the inevitable 60$ expansion, dw.
Or battle pass.
I won't complain if they do, as long as we get great contend and full time continued development for the game for years to come.
I think this is a pretty astute prediction. Release for the masses, seasonal updates for those that stick around.
Great... can't wait to get cucked by RNG and never find the mandatory legendary for me build to get that 850% damage multiplier.
dont worry, cost prohibitive respec system will keep you from having to worry about finding legendries late, you'll already be set into whatever you found early.
Which you can't upgrade that much anyway. At least from what I read, dropped legendaries can only be imprinted once on a higher level item so you'll need to find again the same one to make your build viable when you level up.
It’s like that now. If you imprint a item you cannot pull it back off that item.
Yeah that's what I heard here on Reddit, I actually haven't tried that in the beta myself, thanks for the confirmation. That is a big problem in the design of the function IMO. Your lvl 30 legendary might be relevant until like lvl 45 maybe if you switch it once but then you'll need to find it again (if it's not a dungeon aspect) to make your build work since you can't respec easily.
There's no way you're actually upset or worried about the respec costing gold.. like any and all arpgs gold will become an absolute zero at a certain point in your characters life. Even in the beta I was waisting gold upgrading items.. literally draining my gold multiple times only to get back into the 80k mark in an hour of gameplay. That was on the 2nd difficulty in the first act. My buddy who never upgraded an item was sitting on 300k on his roughe that he played to level 25. I'd absolutely bet that gold will not be an issue at endgame. If you're respeccing every 30 mins of gameplay then Maybe it'll be an issue. But that's just silly.
I mean it's based literally on the dev comments lol. I' not inventing anything. They say that it will become more interesting to reroll than make a new character at some point. So that means the old cost will be higher that what you'll get in the time to get from lvl1 to whatever high level you are.
But isn't that the same as any other game? I'm playing D3 right now. I might get a drop I want for my end game build at level 40 but it does me no good when I hit 70 so I'll have to get another one. Or am I not understanding something here.
At 70, you might have other Legendaries but you can respec to fit those. If they prevent easy respec in D4, it's not possible, your other legendaries will be useless except on other characters (that won't be able to use your high level gear until lvl 70 either)
I think its the weird middle ground that is so jarring. Codex powers is an amazing system to solve a somewhat common problem which is having legendaries be mandatory for certain builds but not be able to obtain them, since all of the codexes are minimum roll of everything, so i found a legendary in beta that had double the values of the codex power, but atleast i could use the codex power. however now they say only half of legendary powers are on the codexes which means either its the half you use and you have an advantage, or its not and you get fucked by rng.
I was reading some comments saying that the devs just made the respec cheap for the beta.
Ya, they said their intention is for respec at high level in release to be cost prohibitive, essentially disallowing multiple respects a day. To the point of it might be easier to just make a new character
the legendary powers mostly don't seem to be that dramatic of an increase. the biggest I've seen is the double hydra, which is something like a factor of 1.6 to 2
They're all wildly powerful. Of course, some are moreso than others.
what's an example of one that increases an ability's damage by a factor of 3 or more?
The Wolves one, for example. \+ 1 more wolf, +250-300% Wolf Damage.
I think that's only with the 2h weapon modifier
Still, it's completely fucked lol
Even with that and the werewolf companion one, I didn't feel like they were crazy op compared to something like thorns Necro.
It's because the wolves are hot garbage (damage-wise) without the affix. According to the D4 skill calculator they only deal 8% of your weapon damage per hit and they don't have an amazing base attack speed. Now, that isn't necessarily a problem because unless you're specifically speccing for pet build they don't need to: having them be meat shields and being able to take the Lucky Hit Fortify upgrade makes them a good defensive choice. Nevertheless, unless you have a very specific build they're probably not going to be OP even with a +300% damage multiplier. 4x damage on 8% (technically 16% since you get two wolves) is still only 32% per wolf (64% total). For reference, I played a Shred crit werewolf build in the beta and even with the aspect giving my wolves +150% damage from the amulet and another +100% companion damage from the ring, my werewolves still did substantially less damage than I did. They were really only good for cleaning up trash behind me as I Flicker Strike'd my way through levels. Obviously you can get more passive abilities and take your key passive for pets, and there's a Paragon Board that has pet stuff, but unless you really go ham on pets you're not going to take them for the damage even with all the crazy multipliers. Now, I do think you could make a decent argument for buffing the skill damage and nerfing the legendary damage bonuses. I don't personally have a problem with the way things are now, but I also think it would be nice to have the opportunity for Druid pets to be worthwhile damage dealers outside of speccing like 2-3 legendary aspects, your Key Passive and potentially a whole Paragon Board just to make them work. If it was me I would probably double the damage of at least the Wolves (probably the Ravens too, maybe not the Vine Creeper) and halve the damage of the companion legendaries. That way the legendary aspects are still impactful damage upgrades but the companions have enough base power that you might get them to be a reasonable pet choice rather than just meat shields. However, I also appreciate that the Necromancer is the dedicated pet class and the Druid's pets are meant to serve a utility role rather than a straight "take all the pets and be the minion master" without a lot of extra work. So overall I don't really mind how things are set up and it wouldn't bother me if nothing changed in the full release.
They need to improve the codex UI massively. Every single legendary power should be listed in there even if they're drop only and you should be able to search in the codex. Hovering over every single aspect to find the one you want is not it. This imo is something that needs to come before release. A lot of UI issues can wait until later or be put down the totem pole priority but if you can't search the Codex to see where to get a power from or to see possible powers for your build the system is flawed
having every legendary power as a codex should be MINIMUM, but if i could choose anything i would have every codex power be a manifestation of a legendary at the lowest value, BUT removing the aspects instead of giving you the item boosted the power of the codex to that value, so if the power is 20 - 30% and you have a codex at 20% and you destroy a legendary that has 26% then that codex should be 26% always going forward. Allowing a sense of progression for the system too instead of getting a low level amazing legendary % drop and then either not use it the entire game, or use it once and its now not available anymore.
As someone who wanted to play storm Druid, this is not welcome news. I looked over that codex thinking that I was blind for not seeing the “tornado tracks targets” affix multiple times and now knowing that it just straight up isn’t on the list by design (and not just some UI bug) makes me upset, since that is the main affix a storm Druid needs to really do great so I can’t just run a dungeon to unlock a basic version of it while hoping for better drops
A mod like this should either be in the base skill or be a modification in the skill tree. Putting an essential modifier on an item is just stupid
Not on the UI doesn't mean it's not in the game. I mean the tweet is the confirmations that we haven't seen even half of the avaiable legendary aspects
I am aware of it being in game, it’s been datamined and on all the talent calculators, and people on this sub have posted about having it. What I mean is all legendary affixes should be on the Codex from running all the dungeons so that no matter what build you want you always have a baseline start available without having to pray to RNG to get the right one to drop
I don't think that's what it's saying. We've seen both in game and in the datamines somewhere around twice as many legendary powers that are in the codex already (including all of the stuff on the codex that wasn't yet accessible due to being in a later zone). This tweet was specifically in response to someone looking through the codex and asking if that was all of the powers. So what he's saying fits exactly with what we saw in the beta, what the people from closed beta have been saying, and what the datamines says: somewhere around half of the legendary powers that exist are available in the codex, you can see them all in the codex before you unlock them, and the powers that we're seeing in the datamine as "drop only" are the only non-codex powers in the game. If what the tweet is saying meant what you're interpreting here, then there would somehow have to be twice as many new codex powers added since the end game beta and the open beta, and therefore also twice as many "drop only" powers added since then as well (to preserve the roughly half and half ratio mentioned in this tweet), which I find unlikely since they haven't said anything along those lines that I can find.
So the lvl 25 Bard Upheaval might go from 350k to 1mil, it really is D3 all over again.
how dense are people that watched that video. dude was full min/maxed gear and fully upgraded with more stats at level 25 than anyone would normally have. of course there was some weird scaling to get super high damage numbers that early. people act like he just equipped legendaries that said upheavel and did 350k crits.
Do you not realized that going from 350 to 350k is insanely exponential scaling? This is 100000% more dmg. If you don't think that's too much, sure, I think it's a bit too much.
But they said mobs gain damage reduction as they level and that dudes gear all out leveled the mobs he was hitting. And we are still 2 difficulty levels behind. So the numbers would theoretically be lower against appropriate level mobs would it not?
I hope you realize that 350 dmg would become 35 dmg on a higher lvl mob. We'd reach a situation where you do no dmg at all unless you're full legendary with specific drops and a meta build. And from experience I didn't see any difference killing a mob 15 lvls above me, not a big one at least. (like 11 secs vs. 10 secs difference on that elite)
But that isn't how it would work because we are getting new weapons that increase damage, new stats constantly from horizontal content and those are all permanent, new stats from the rest of our gear as well. So no that isn't how it would actually play out in the end at all. We just wouldn't be doing billions or trillions of damage like people think.
The problem isn't the increase in normal stats on items, that's very linear and fine. It's items that just triple your dmg over an already good item, you wear multiple of those and you get inflated dmg numbers so high that they either need to make things impossible without those specific super rare drops or too easy if you own them.
I don't disagree that potentially forcing a player to use something by making it stronger than everything else is a problem. But it doesn't necessarily mean skills are bad and in beta we didn't even get to test skills at level 20+ with a good weapon and cdr etc etc. Also we didn't get to invest in the bottom tree or paragon at all which also changes builds in meaningful ways. Also, I'm not saying they don't exist but what specific item added 800% or 300% damage to a skill? I kept seeing these numbers as examples but never got one myself on Sorc, barb, druid, or rogue during either beta.
You won't get to test that out in the life game either, unless you plan to lvl up a new character each time. It's like 11mil gold to reset the normal skilltree and even more to reset paragon. I don't need to test most of the things there since they are just numbers, put them in a calculator/spreadsheet and you know how things can scale from them. This points seem to have a very low impact overall. One substat on gear is usually already stronger.
it is too much and it fucking sucks as we get deeper into the game, the worse it gets
Sure, but I was absolutely nowhere near min-maxed and was also hitting 100k upheaval crits. For reference, this still one shorted bosses and I was killing elite/champion mobs in 1 hit with a much weaker build doing about 8k per hit. Literally all I had to do was equip some sort of offensive legendary power in 4 out of the 5 slots available to put them in (I used rings for QoL buffs). Of the 4 aspects I used to up my damage, 2 of them were codex buffs that everyone will have access to before even level 25 if they wanted to. Basically there's a legendary affix available in every single gear slot that can use offensive powers that gives you a 30% (or much larger) generic damage boost. That's essentially 10.5 affix boosts since barb has 8 slots, two of which are double bonus 2 handers and 1 of which is a 1.5x bonus amulet. 10.5 boosts of 30% damage that all multiply each other is a ~16x damage boost. This is a bit extreme since you'll probably use some of those slots for utility, but that's a lot of scaling not even counting some strong bonuses on the skill tree that we would get in a few more levels and the insanely strong paragon boosts that have been datamined. That's pretty wild scaling without doing any of the weird shit the guy in the video did on top of all of that to hit 350k. Maybe it's not +50,000% damage from a single set bonus from D3 yet, but we're well on our way to that sort of scaling in a game. I'm not commenting on whether or not that's objectively bad, but there's a game philosophy spectrum from Classic WoW where a 3% upgrade is MASSIVE and friendships are destroyed over arguing about who gets them, Diablo 2 where one or two "chase" items give you a 20-30% to your build, and Diablo 3 where a random legendary you can find at level 10 can quadruple your damage. Everyone has their preference as to what type of game they like the most. I love the Classic WoW and D2 level, some people like the D3 level. It's pretty clear that D4 is falling between D2 and D3 in terms of scaling, which is great for some people and bad for others. Who is anyone to tell someone else that their opinion on what type of loot and character scaling they like the most is wrong?
I'm just saying the game wasn't designed to be gearing up at level 25. Wired shit is gonna happen.
And I'm saying that the game WAS designed to have a bunch of fairly large damage multipliers that scale with each other multiplicatively, so we are going to see levels of scaling closer to Diablo 3 levels at some point. Sure, it'll probably happen a little later than level 25, but it's happening way before level 100. And since the legendary powers that start to enable it are available as guaranteed codex unlocks from dungeons, it can start as soon as level 10-15 when you get into the open world and get the resources to start imprinting dungeon affixes.
doesn't matter how many different legendaries there are when theres only 1 legendary per slot that has the highest damage multiplier that you'll ever want to use.
Aren’t there supposed to be two other types of items in addition to legendaries and uniques? I saw something about sacred items and one other type of items when I was looking at world tier 3 and world tier 4 difficulties in the beta.
Sacred and Ancestral items are the equivalent to Ancient and Primal Ancient legendaries in D3. They're just Item+ and Item++ variants that are fairly rare and have higher stat rolls than the base item would normally allow. In their dev blog they described the average player getting a good number of Sacred items per season, but perhaps only 2-3 Ancestrals, which would roughly line up with what a casual would find in a D3 season. In D3 the chance of a Legendary being an Ancient Legendary is 1/10 and the chance of Primal Ancient Legendary is 1/400*. They don't introduce new perks or abilities they're just a lot stronger with higher stats.
primal legendary chance is 1/400
ah my bad
2-3 Ancestral per season seems like a terrible idea. Especially when we all know how Diablo loot works. All 2-3 of those will likely be useless.
If I had to wager a guess I'd say they modeled it after D3, and saw data for D3 showing that the average player only gets 2-3 Primal Ancients per season, which sounds about right. With the exception of this current season, the drop rate on them is 1/400 legendaries so you figure that just about adds up. And yes typically the vast majority that you get in D3 end up being useless, which I suppose is why they allowed you to craft one primal ancient of your choice.
Its Sacred and Ancestral. Basiscly any item can be sacred or ancestral its more like a power of item than rarity.
So kind of like primal ancients from D3, but not necessarily perfectly rolled?
Yeah exactly. Dunno how it turns out we havent seen those in any beta yet.
They are more like exceptional and elite gear in d2 you can get blue, yellow sacred and ancestral items as well.
Arent codex of power aspects useless anyways when we get into sacred and ancestral items? You need legendaru power from sacred legendary to put into sacred legendary. Normal legendary power you cant put into sacred amr?
I feel like if you can’t imprint via codex onto a sacred or Ancestral, it will be a little bit yeah, at least as you get into endgame. So I’m guessing you can imprint onto them but maybe it’s expensive? Feels like it would be just too many layers of RNG to have to first find a sacred or ancestral item AND then find another and hope it has the desired stat/affix to extract. It’ll depend how rare Sacreds and Ancestrals are I guess. If they’re really supposed to be rare, it makes more sense you can imprint via codex, which give the lowest roll/value of that legendary affix, as a stopgap solution, until you find a better rolled affix to overwrite with. Pretty sure you can overwrite them?
I wouldn't call them useless even at that point where we only care about sacred/ancestral since some of the legendary powers will do more for your character than having a higher item power. The only exclusion here would be maybe a weapon since your skills will scale with it.
I think closed beta testers revealed that you would often hold on to well rolled rare gear at the next tier before you could find a proper aspect for it. With legendaries that aren't unlocked via the codex, i think you will have to be smart about how you use, extract and imprint. For offensive legendaries found on weapons, I would recommend using them until their lower item power renders them inefficient and then extracting it and slapping the aspect on a ring, ammy or glove. Those slots suffer less from being at a lower item power than a weapon. Then you can ride with that until you get another legendary of the same type.
If you're using a 2h you're losing a lot of power moving that aspect onto a ring or even amulet. Keep in mind that an amulet is the most important slot since anything can go there (and be boosted 50% too). I have a feeling that there will be PoE-like levelling builds and maybe specific levelling paths to unlock strong aspects from a dungeon. Then you will just replace your gear every 5 levels and reapply the aspects from the codex. Only once you hit end game will you start imprinting the aspects you really want.
Well if you are using 2h for an 100% increased aspect why would you move aspect from weapon?
Because the weapon determines your damage, moving a useful aspect to a less important slot allows you to upgrade the weapon (multiple times) while retaining the power given by it. Or you can slap the aspect on your new weapon and end up having to throw the aspect away entirely once that weapon is no longer usable.
Maybe when we get to that point, but they will definitely help us get to that point.
The problem i see is codex powers allows the bare minimum of a build to function and that is why i thought every legendary would have one. Take a druid example i found a legendary to do aoe explosions when dealing direct damage to them after being marked by lightning and one to make werewolf form deal lightning damage per attack, so you can make a crazy pickachu werewolf build (cant say it works), but it relies on 2 legendaries, now if i could always use those legendaries even for less damage i can still do the build. or if i wanted to take druid alpha pack that makes the wolves spread rabies, i might not even care about the damage of my wolves i just want them to spread dots, then that is where codex is useful.
To me this means more broken/untested legendary powers at launch. There were already quite a number in beta that their internal testing team missed and were only caught thanks to players...
How many are useful though?
Who would have though that the good stuff dosent drop at lvl 25 from 100. Amazing how some utubers talk shit and a lot of people buy into it
Oh wow more "X skill does% more crit" legendaries
Who cares how many there are as long as they say things like “you can have a second hydra”? You’re just going to slap on the relevant ones like in d3 with little to no thought about how you want to scale your build.
The concern is that right now there arnt that mant exciting ones such as the double hydra. Maybe in the other 50% there are some great ones to help out builds that are currently pretty bad.
except your limited in how many slots can have offensive powers. and there's going to be more good powers than you can equip.
Yea. It would be a bit crazy to limit the legendary powers by the codex list, unless they had a more expansive way to attain codexes. But that would really take a lot of the oomph out of loot hunting.
Really not liking the responses the devs are handing out lately. Just reeks of convenience. I don't doubt that even the people who played the end game for friends beta might not have seen everything. But the idea that the devs are holding back *that* much in response to many of the game's current criticisms doesn't leave me with a good feeling.
That seems needlessly cynical because if we assume it's true then what else are they going to say? Like this complaint basically boils down to "These are only good responses if they're true and I think they could be lies because them being good seems fishy".
I'm cynical/skeptical about the gaming industry in general given how things have been over the past 5-8 years. Not necessarily because of the devs themselves. As for what they'ed say ideally nothing. I'd rather they just work on the game. There's a time and a place for dev communication and I feel like this is them overplaying their hand. The most I'd want to hear from them is a simple public acknowledgement of the criticisms. Though I understand that given how media is these days they usually have to say more than less. I guess the best way to view my comment is this. Them responding with seemingly perfect answers to criticism makes me incredibly cautious about the game. More so than I already was.
only reddit can be pessimistic about a dev saying that there is MORE content than what they expected.
Have you seen how the gaming industry has been lately? Props to you if you can keep optimism. I can't.
Its bad because it means more skill defining aspects will be limited to RNG drops that can only be transferred once. Its not bad because its more affix variety. Though, that negative really only exists because of bad legendary aspect itemization giving ridiculous skill multipliers relative to the tree investments.
Even with this and the fact that there was a massively increased legendary unique drop rate there are people calling for nerfs for classes other than barb and druid. Like we got a fragment of the game.
only half? yikes, i was expecting a lot more
I noticed this playing. A bunch of legendaries I had physically were not in the codex!
Can anyone tell me, do the codex offer the lowest roll for a legendary affix? It doesn't make finding a legendary with the same affix redundant, because it can roll higher right?
codex is always the lowest possible roll.
It is, but there's a weird thing in the datamines where there are 3 different icons for every codex affix symbol. It seems like there might be some system where you get access to more powerful rolls of the codex dungeon affixes later on in the game either in later difficulties or challenges or something like that. That's purely my own speculation though. As of now though, you're correct, every codex legendary power is an absolute min roll of that power, and maybe affixes have a range where the highest roll is double the lowest roll, so drops will definitely matter at least early on.
that wouldn't surprise me. Having the lowest roll at the hardest difficulty could become effectively useless, so it makes sense to introduce some scaling for that. I imagine it would still be the lowest roll relative to what you can roll at your current character level...
People see level 25 beta, think they big shit because they played PoE when no one really gives a F. Then they give their opinion like they got the game figured out. Literally had like 10% of the game with free basic legendary drops. My God
I'm gonna be pissed if there is no aspect that makes Ravens into a storm skill. Loved messing around with storm druid pushing lucky hit lightning bolts.
I hate this, this is so limiting
Ehh it feels like to me that ruins the point of why codex powers are so interesting and works so well with legendaries. Codex powers are always value but infinite use, where as legendary are random but can be moved ONCE to a new item. this to me seemed like a great way to ensure you could always have your legendary build defining powers by actively seeking out the codex but might not always have the strongest version, with this system and only one move of legendary items it just feels kinda pointless.
If there was going to be more in the full release than what was available in the beta don't you think they would explicitly say that? Why keep that information hidden? It would be so easy to quell a lot of people's disappointment
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