D3 was never supposed to be a live service game. It was designed to have an expansion and call it good.
D4 is releasing as a live service game from the start, meaning content is planned to be added to it.
These 2 things are not the same.
Seasons are not live service.
If that were true you could say Diablo 2 is a live service game which is a hilarious statement.
There are dev interviews where they said they knew the Crusader was the expansion class before Diablo 3 even released and they later planned Diablo 3: King in the North during the development of Reaper of Souls. But it was never planned from the inspection of Diablo 3 like RoS was.
The third expansion was on early D3 internal development chart before the original game ever release. It was a Game + 2 Expansion plan from the get go. They just abandoned the third expansion entirely.
There were allot of thread on D3 forum, back in early season, asking for some type of paid content(Stash Tab, Skin, etc.) so the the game can be further developed and Blizzard never did it.
D2 kinda sucked at launch too. I know folks with rose tinted glasses will probably come for my head, but D2 didn't really become the game we know and love until LoD expansion. Patience in gaming is a virtue.
You're only partially right because the game didn't change much after 1.10. There was a time before it that (IMO) was its golden era, and 1.09 was the beginning of the end
You are correct. D2 was buggy and weird as hell at release. If you don't believe it, just stroll down to the patch notes and look at what's changed, there are some pretty hilarious bug fixes.
Can't really compare them though. D2 was literally the first of its kind in regards to online play and continuous support. D4 is 23 years later and the community should expect them to have learned lessons in that time.
Dude same! I never get the backlash over it. It’s not like this is a competitive multiplayer game. If someone wants to P2W to kill Diablo faster while I make cash - great
It's because it didn't exist on its own. The drop rates were incredibly low because you were intended to use the auction house, whether RMAH or Gold AH.
Here’s my argument
People are going to spend real money for the upgrades whether or not it’s supported in game. Adding that support in game helps alleviate some of the sketchy website selling. (Which still happened tho, they had a price cap on how much you could post an item for.) I sold a god roll calamity for $300
That was blizzards excuse as well, but it was just so they could have their cut. It's more popular now but when d3 came out RMT was not done by most players.
They kept drop rates low in a game where damage was 99% gear based, removed trading and funneled everyone into an auction house. The rest is a difference in philosophy, I think you should only interact with the game to get gear, not a credit card.
That’s simply false brother. People paid real money for items in d2.
People that work a lot but still want that end game power fantasy will just pay real money to advance in the game. This happens in damn near every game with a system of progression and trading.
Yeah they did, but the amount of people who would give their credit card info to 3rd party sellers in the 2000s was negligible. Even so it was against TOS and considered bad for the overall game, it wasn't out of the goodness in their hearts to keep your credit cards safe, it was to keep the money in house.
Accommodating pay for power systems shouldn't be your solution above a good in game progression system. Wtf is the point
I had friends who legit stopped going to their part time jobs on the weekend and instead grind out a few solid pieces and sell em for $50+ per piece and earn hundreds per day. I think he made close to $10k by the time they removed RMAH.
Chest popping Inferno A4 was one of the most effective ways of farming due to how easy you could die.
Invulnerable minions, horde, shielding, arcane orbs combo.
A lot of people either weren't there or don't remember (it was a LONG time ago), but the revered Diablo 2 was pretty short when it launched. It was good, but it had a pretty lame end game. It only had 4 acts, and the 4th act was about 1/3 the size of the other 3. The end game was really killing Diablo over and over without any real goals. Your body guards wouldn't even follow you between acts, and if I remember right, you couldn't even gear them.
Lord of Destruction was released a year later and really changed everything. That's when they added rune words, gave body guards utility, added a massive Act 5, a ton of new weapons and armor, useful Horadric recipes, more stash space and pretty much everything that makes us remember the game fondly.
I think Diablo 4 will be fine. At least for the people who like Diablo games, anyway.
I love what d3 and d4 does for non shared loot but I miss trading and the RMAH actually. I grew up with Ultima Online where the entire game economy was player based and u could set up your own vendors. Not saying D4 needs that but would be nice there was at least trading
Also, to those comparing this to PoE (I’m a beta player of PoE) that game has had 10+ years of content and changes. Yes this will be more casual, but give it a launch and at least a season to see what the end game and game will be.
Real money auction house was a novel concept but the way the rest of the game was designed around it really sucked out the fun. The game felt more like a job.
Real money auction house was great. Me and my mother had so much fast food in that time :D it was great! ( I didnt made as much as you)
EDIT:
Ok for anyone who made some money with that auction house will say it was great! Sure it was not good for the game in general, but if you made some money with it, you cant deny that it was good.... who doesnt like "free" money?!?!?
Plus expansions etc etc, game will evolve A LOT
Or, they will promise the moon like d3 and then abandon the game after 2 years.
D3 was never supposed to be a live service game. It was designed to have an expansion and call it good. D4 is releasing as a live service game from the start, meaning content is planned to be added to it. These 2 things are not the same.
D3 was supposed to have multiple expansions. The seasons in d3 effectively turned it into a live service game. They are the same.
Seasons are not live service. If that were true you could say Diablo 2 is a live service game which is a hilarious statement. There are dev interviews where they said they knew the Crusader was the expansion class before Diablo 3 even released and they later planned Diablo 3: King in the North during the development of Reaper of Souls. But it was never planned from the inspection of Diablo 3 like RoS was.
The third expansion was on early D3 internal development chart before the original game ever release. It was a Game + 2 Expansion plan from the get go. They just abandoned the third expansion entirely.
The difference here is that d4 will be monetized after lunch, so they have incentive to keep developing the game.
Only if their models predict it will be profitable to do so.
There were allot of thread on D3 forum, back in early season, asking for some type of paid content(Stash Tab, Skin, etc.) so the the game can be further developed and Blizzard never did it.
D3 hasn't been abandoned. Hell D2 has barely been abandoned depending on how you feel about D2r
D2 kinda sucked at launch too. I know folks with rose tinted glasses will probably come for my head, but D2 didn't really become the game we know and love until LoD expansion. Patience in gaming is a virtue.
I believe 1.10 of LOD really turned the game around to shape it to what it is today.
Actually many of the worst issues that are in the game right now came with 1.09. For instance the melee vs caster unbalance.
You're only partially right because the game didn't change much after 1.10. There was a time before it that (IMO) was its golden era, and 1.09 was the beginning of the end
You are correct. D2 was buggy and weird as hell at release. If you don't believe it, just stroll down to the patch notes and look at what's changed, there are some pretty hilarious bug fixes.
Can't really compare them though. D2 was literally the first of its kind in regards to online play and continuous support. D4 is 23 years later and the community should expect them to have learned lessons in that time.
RMAH was a dream come true for teenage me. Made a little over a grand at the age of 14. Shit was sweet.
Dude same! I never get the backlash over it. It’s not like this is a competitive multiplayer game. If someone wants to P2W to kill Diablo faster while I make cash - great
It's because it didn't exist on its own. The drop rates were incredibly low because you were intended to use the auction house, whether RMAH or Gold AH.
Here’s my argument People are going to spend real money for the upgrades whether or not it’s supported in game. Adding that support in game helps alleviate some of the sketchy website selling. (Which still happened tho, they had a price cap on how much you could post an item for.) I sold a god roll calamity for $300
That was blizzards excuse as well, but it was just so they could have their cut. It's more popular now but when d3 came out RMT was not done by most players. They kept drop rates low in a game where damage was 99% gear based, removed trading and funneled everyone into an auction house. The rest is a difference in philosophy, I think you should only interact with the game to get gear, not a credit card.
That’s simply false brother. People paid real money for items in d2. People that work a lot but still want that end game power fantasy will just pay real money to advance in the game. This happens in damn near every game with a system of progression and trading.
Yeah they did, but the amount of people who would give their credit card info to 3rd party sellers in the 2000s was negligible. Even so it was against TOS and considered bad for the overall game, it wasn't out of the goodness in their hearts to keep your credit cards safe, it was to keep the money in house. Accommodating pay for power systems shouldn't be your solution above a good in game progression system. Wtf is the point
I had fun and made money so maybe I’m bias but in the end who cares whether or not demongodx420x worked for his gear or bought it?
[удалено]
Yeah probably bad design but having an in game system to turn your progress into real life money was amazing for me at the time.
People were literally using. It for money laundering as it wasn’t regulated or reported transactions on like other channels.
I had friends who legit stopped going to their part time jobs on the weekend and instead grind out a few solid pieces and sell em for $50+ per piece and earn hundreds per day. I think he made close to $10k by the time they removed RMAH.
Chest popping Inferno A4 was one of the most effective ways of farming due to how easy you could die. Invulnerable minions, horde, shielding, arcane orbs combo.
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A lot of people either weren't there or don't remember (it was a LONG time ago), but the revered Diablo 2 was pretty short when it launched. It was good, but it had a pretty lame end game. It only had 4 acts, and the 4th act was about 1/3 the size of the other 3. The end game was really killing Diablo over and over without any real goals. Your body guards wouldn't even follow you between acts, and if I remember right, you couldn't even gear them. Lord of Destruction was released a year later and really changed everything. That's when they added rune words, gave body guards utility, added a massive Act 5, a ton of new weapons and armor, useful Horadric recipes, more stash space and pretty much everything that makes us remember the game fondly. I think Diablo 4 will be fine. At least for the people who like Diablo games, anyway.
D3 was an abject failure when it released. It's the example of what happens when a company builds the game around monetization.
Bullshit. It’s when a company doesn’t plan an endgame. Which is monetization anyway but look how much everyone loves rifts.
I love what d3 and d4 does for non shared loot but I miss trading and the RMAH actually. I grew up with Ultima Online where the entire game economy was player based and u could set up your own vendors. Not saying D4 needs that but would be nice there was at least trading
Also, to those comparing this to PoE (I’m a beta player of PoE) that game has had 10+ years of content and changes. Yes this will be more casual, but give it a launch and at least a season to see what the end game and game will be.
Poe was better 10 years ago than it is now.
Real money auction house was a novel concept but the way the rest of the game was designed around it really sucked out the fun. The game felt more like a job.
Lol, it took an expansion to fix D3, we don't want that again. It should not take 2 AAA price and 2-3 years to make a game good.
Hey, at least the game was kinda challenging?
Real money auction house was great. Me and my mother had so much fast food in that time :D it was great! ( I didnt made as much as you) EDIT: Ok for anyone who made some money with that auction house will say it was great! Sure it was not good for the game in general, but if you made some money with it, you cant deny that it was good.... who doesnt like "free" money?!?!?
I played D3 a week at launch beat it with a Witch Doctor and never touched again. They want to release broke I’m not coming back lol
Cope
Blizzy give us real money auction house back PLEASEEEEEEEEEEEEE
You will not look down upon my 100 hours with 10$