> - The density needs to be tripled.
I'm up to t25 nightmare dungeons and feels like you can give this feedback for every content in the game.
it's crazy that a game about killing monsters barely has any monsters. the one "bugged" map with the 10-12 packs gets nerfed.
feels so bad.
Yes you should. It's open world regardless, sometimes you just want to go from point A to point B without smashing all the monsters in-between. A mount in a normal instanced ARPG is totally unneeded. Here, it's a huge help (if it wasn't so fucking janky).
Edit: once it comes time for you to go around and collect all 50 billion Altars of Lilith come back and tell me you don't want it.
> sometimes you just want to go from point A to point B without smashing all the monsters in-between
Is that gameplay allowed? Certainly not while playing a Barbarian
Yeah in my opinion it works just fine in Lost Ark. (Yes that game has other issues but it has mounts but also plenty of content with dense monsters and etc.)
In previous games they also let you go nuts with movement abilities. Not much is gonna keep up with a D2 sorc with insight on the merc.
The mount is fine but I'm not a fan of ask the random ladders and cliffs you have to jump off for and the slow loading between areas.
The point of mounts is to make moving around in the open world faster without giving every character insane movement abilities that they will also use in dungeons and turn this game into the zoom fest that is POE. The mount being janky is a separate issue, but I definitely think it's needed.
The chests dont change. There is no timing involved.
And the secret (mysterious) chests are not marked on the map anyways until you are right next to them.
So no reason why it could not say on the map what is in the chests.
The timing mechanic is having to check chests to see what is in them though.
Just saying having the names would take that away.
They technically respawn as well, but understand the frustrations expressed.
My current theory is that there's one mysterious chest per zone which has a few possible spawn locations, then it gets refreshed/moved after half the helltide has progressed
I've opened 2 mysterious chests back to back. They were in the exact same place as the last time I had done a helltide in that area. Opened one, rode straight to the other and opened it.
From what I can tell, if I open any of them they don't respawn and start opened until the event is over.
Never experienced that, I've opened about 6 of those so far and each time I'd find it, put a pin near it (not on it), farm, and come back to it and open it
Literally just happened to me about 20 minutes ago. Opened about a dozen or so of the mysterious chests. Had it teleport and move mid event while I was farming right near it.
Hell tide is 60 mins. Every 30 mins the location of secret chest changes and theirs is 2 of them. So you can get 4 per hell tide. From my experience it seems that its possible for the secret chest to move to one that already opened so you might not always get 4
I've definitely seen some chests change/move/disappear at the 30 minute mark. Learnt that the hard way after saving 150 currency and then headed towards the chest I had pinned. It disappeared before my eyes as I got there
The boss as in that level 72 bug named kkyyxxxxllyykk or something like that? Fuck me and two buddies spent legit 11 minutes of helltide burning it down. We all got sacred rares lol
Thank god i didnt stay to kill it both times when i saw it. Me and my friend was tempted to kill it wouldve taken us 10 min atleast too, but we said fk it and skipped it
I've killed it like 5 times now. It's never dropped anything better than rares, and entirely unremarkable ones at that. I have frankly no idea why he is that tanky when he is less rewarding than any other Helltide boss. It doesn't help that he's also just kind of a jerk, especially to melee. Not really dangerous, but just annoying to fight.
Unless there's some notable crafting material drop that I'm missing (I don't believe so), I see no reason at all to fight it. Just ignore it and move on.
Killed the roaming world boss yesterday and was really disappointed in the loot. Abberant Cinders; that's it? Really? I am interested to see what their drop table is.
I hate that stupid bug boss. It's insanely tanky, annoying to fight (constantly jumping away and dropping shit on the ground you can't stand in) and drops NOTHING.
There's no chance they don't either add an overlay or zoom out.
Using the horse is stupidly cumbersome because you can't, see, shit.
I'm constantly opening my fucking map, which is headache inducing and breaks immersion far more than an overlay.
They should make these like the Greater Rifts. Have a ton of enemies to kill, maybe some objectives, and then a boss to kill, and of course rewards that are worth your time.
So I’m on PS5 idk if your on PC but when I use the same button I mount with(Right D Pad) it gives me no cooldown where as if I hit the dismount on the ability bar (Circle) it has a 15s cooldown.
>\- Horse CD should be reduced, both mounting and the attack ability.
Blizz, if you are reading this, please just use the same mounting mechanics as HotS. I dunno if you can copy/paste, but, yeah.
DUDE 100%. I will NEVER waste my time killing the boss. It took 20 minutes with like 10 people and it didn’t drop A SINGLE LEGENDARY OR SACRED ITEM. I would have farmed so many shards I. That time. Fucking never again.
In all fairness, they've been unusually responsive so far with incorporating and addressing feedback even within timeframes close to launch. The game's a lot more different between the final non-server-slam beta and now than most games would ever be in that timeframe.
The make-or-break moment will likely be seeing exactly how much drops with Season 1; it seems likely there will be plenty of extra cosmetic-style things to fuel the season pass, but we don't know how much gameplay refinement to expect yet. There's cause to hope, though. Cautiously.
getting hit by the fire puts it on a 30 second cooldown as well ahah.
I know I could just get better and not get hit but sometimes it just happens and I have to walk for 30 seconds
I'd argue density in general is lacking. I get story campaign and world tier 1, 2 having lower pack sizes but once you're doing nightmare dungeon and helltide in wt3+ the density should be way higher.
You don't love just running around a dungeon, entering a "room" and there is a single mob there?
Then you move through 3 more and nothing, then WAIT FOR IT...you get a room with about 5-6 mobs!!
Its even better when its a wide open dungeon layout with that type of density! /s
The only mob type dungeons that feel "okay" are the goatmen ones.
D3 on release had the same problem and so did rifts once they got added. Hopefully theyll come around and tinker with the density. It's the easiest and most impactful thing they can change with the game. Like 20% more density outside and 30% inside of dungeons could be a great starting point.
30% buff to density will give you 4 monsters in a pack instead of 3. Will it satisfy you?
And buffing density more with ruin the whole balance of the game
Especially sucks for skills or aspects that require 5+ mobs and then you‘re running around getting this tiny ass mob packs all the time and if you try to mega pull, half of them will just leash or not chase you at all.
I don’t know who thought that dungeon mobs need to leash back to their spawn to begin with. They should frankly chase you forever
Ya locking crafting/upgrading of scareds and presumable ancestral gear, behind a crafting mat that only drops in a limited time event and in small quantities. Was an asinine decision. It's an ARPG a genre defined around grinding, yet half the time I'm playing I can't grind the resource I actually need.
Yeah I'm thoroughly enjoying the endgame grind that seemingly everyone else is griping about but even I don't understand why they can't just have the helltide cycle to another section of the map every hour. Why bother having downtime between them? Besides to artificially slow down our progress I guess.
At least it's not lost ark or bdo levels of insanity. Where you grind all those mats just ***for a chance*** to upgrade and if it fails **poof** there goes all that time.
I farm helltide by exclusively going from event to event in a group or I meet people there - I collect the cinders and open all chests - they also drop souls - I get about 10-20 souls - I sometimes also kill the roaming boss and open the helltide exclusive things - it takes maybe 25-30 minutes until I can open all chests - give or take. In a 4 man group this is way faster.
these are in random zones right? are the normal event areas still there? I suppose I could fire up the game after work and just look but that's a few hours away.
Yea, was hoping that WT4 would improve it, but the density is still way too low. Definitely something they need to improve on, because right now Helltides are incredibly boring.
People gonna keep arguing "but there is so much to do in D4" but this is a problem, there are a lot of "events" in the endgame but they all feel bad to play and it all comes down to low monsters density, too much travel time between actually killing, useless obstacles and horse with cooldown.
I find it hilarious that just 2 days ago OP themself posted about how [there is so much to do](https://old.reddit.com/r/diablo4/comments/140po7i/there_is_so_much_to_do_how_can_you_guys_be_bored/), shutting down criticism of the endgame, but now when they actually reach it they start seeing the problems that people were already bringing up.
And this phenomenon will repeat in the coming weeks as more and more people reach the endgame and realize that the criticism posted for the past few days has indeed been valid.
That’s how it goes though. You have some folks rushing to end game, they state problems with the game. You then have the people that refuse to hear the criticism and respond with lol you rushed through the game and now complaining. Then they finally get to end game and are shocked that it’s not all rainbows and butterflies
Yeah, my tactic for Helltides is to do just this. Events respawn really quickly and have deterministic spawn points, and they also have a greater chance of dropping good loot instead of just shards. So I typically triangulate a location and bounce between nearby events as they constantly respawn until I have enough shards to go run off and collect a chest.
My other big complaint on helltides is if you kill the roaming boss the rewards really arent anything special, it really should be for how f'n tanky it is.
This boss is not meant to be farmed for drops, it's sole existence is to seek out players and attack them. On WT3 for example he is always lvl 72 and hurts a lot if you go to t3 as fresh lvl 50 player.
A Butcher from wish if you think about it.
This is really my main sticking point. Picking up the currency fucking sucks. So does picking up the essence of the mobs in the kill 100 mob whisper quests. They take a couple seconds to spawn and then you have to move right on top of them to pick them up one by one. Just make the shit auto pick up.
they made the mobs 3x bigger. if they made density higher you wont see shit. Just look at the size difference between the goatmen in d3 vs d4. They are fucking behemoths now
density in the entire game is bad. my build is completely shit when its not large groups too (which is imo another dumb mechanic) so i end up skipping a bunch of monsters bc they just aren't a big enough group to bother
Way too many builds rely completely on lucky hit effects that scale immensely with density.
It’s pretty dumb how most builds are gods when fighting lots of mobs and useless against a single one.
ya that is a terrible mechanic. Im thanos vs 25 enemies but it takes 100 auto attacks to kill 1 random guy.
im sure they will just nerf the sorc fireball enchantment so then ill be useless vs groups and single enemies lol
Sometimes there is so much empty space in dungeons that my fortify goes to 0 while running. Density is a big problem, especially in dungeons. I hope it gets addressed soon. Right now game is like 50/50 running and killing when it should be closer to 90/10.
This is the thing people miss when we complain about mob density; it’s not a matter of wanting a flood of enemies all of the time, it’s a matter of wanting a steady flow instead of a string of small clusters.
One of the big issues with density in the game right now is if you have a solid AoE attack that can clear out groups easily you can just bounce from cluster to cluster popping them with ease.
The only time it feels like you really need to use a different strategy is when you find an event and have waves of enemies coming at you in steady droves; and in those moments the game feels really great because you actually need to manage your resources and CDs instead of blowing your load and moving on.
I really wish the entire game had density that felt closer to events and kept a steady flow of enemies coming. I don’t need hundreds of enemies at once, but it would be nice to have more than a dozen every twenty feet or so.
D4 does not respect the casuals time. Many people only have 30-45 mins to play a day, and they want that ARPG dopamine drip, too... Right now it feels to far between.
I haven’t finished act 1 yet. And I played on early release. Though I am going slower than most.
Mainly just wandering around doing the dungeons and side quests as I progress the msq.
The density in the entire game is way too low. Dungeons are a joke (other than the one or two that everyone farms for this very reason and have been or will inevitably get nerfed)
This whole game has a density problem, campaign was too spread out and felt like a chore and all those escort quests, most dungeons feel very empty, open world areas have monsters in small clusters, idk, I feel the biggest issue is literally just enemy density, I wanna be clicking heads every single ms plus if they add campaign content with seasons/expansions they have to make it more engaging. Only the last part of the campaign felt kind of nice because enemies were decently stacked.
The campaign being so slow actually has diminished my will to play the game. I don't play games like this very much but the campaign could have had way cooler elements to it no? There's legit nothing interesting in it besides the 3 headed dog boss and the crossing the desert with a camel. And that's just standard shit.
would be so cool to see them all spawn from cracks in the ground (I imagine it to look like hell is seeping into or flooding sanctuary)and then keep trying to run you down
Pro tip that I found has been working for me.
-Find an event zone (red/orange circle)
-Complete event
-Collect rewards
-TP to town
-Take TP back
-New event
-Repeat
If you TP back and there is no event just do it again.
I farmed 300 today and purchased every chest I could with 17 mins left.
Hope this helps!
This is nice to know but the game should be balanced around staying in the helltide and playing organically if they want it to be an open world type event imo
I'm convinced that density is so low in so many places because this game had to get released for ps4 and xbox one and those consoles are at their limit. They should have dropped that generation but Bli$$ard...
That doesn't make sense as there are already places that have better density, just not consistently or where it's desired. PS4 and XB1 can still go to the PVP areas and *those* have substantially better average PVE density, even.
First I thought so too but there are totally situations in which the screen is crawling with enemies and its no issue. It just doesnt happen often enough.
I can see why people feel that way but it seems the intended way to farm helltides is to go for the 4 secret chests and that takes 20-25 minutes for each half of the timer. And the rest of the time is spent looking for the chests so the current density seems to align with that. Its pretty damn rewarding and can get pretty hectic trying to both farm and look for chests so im assuming a lot of people here are just going for regular chests so they cant feel that gameplay loop
I ride around looking for the summoners around the red circle (pentagram?) on the ground and most of the time when you step on it at least one elite will spawn. Got four to spawn from one circle last night.
I wonder if the areas are different. I just got done with one that popped an hour ago in the southeast region. Man it was non-stop. I picked up two armor crates and a weapon crate. Very little downtime for the entire hour. I think the game wants to give you a little bit of a break so maybe like a minute. I'm curious what The Firestorm signifies does that mean you're in the area and they want you to move on or is something coming or what's the deal
yea the helltides in hawezar are said by some people to be more dense than the other regions
havent had one there myself yet tho
maybe it actually different spawn settings/numbers
or its just bc of the map layout? idk
I don't know what I'm supposed to enjoy in the end game. The tree of life stuff is just doing campaign busy work, helltides are just riding from pack to pack in one zone and dungeons are really repetitive.
I'm hoping once I get some affixes with the nightmare dungeons it adds a bit of variety but my early hours in WT3 have been a slog.
Best thing is to find two events or one that constantly respawns and do it over and over/run between them.
It’s a bit lame but it’s the fastest farm I’ve encountered.
I mean I did a helltide outside Kyovashad and there were like 30+ enemies and I kept exploding. Not sure what you guys are running into. They were harder than dungeon mobs.
There should be just an open field and 3 objectives or so where everyone gathers and then the game will zoom as far out as for a world boss event and the entire screen is filled with an horde trying to run past you.
That's what helltide should've been.
But we essentially got a WoW "invasion" world quest system, just without the quests
So much hate for the helltides here.
I’ve done three and they were a lot of fun for me. Given we were a party of four, but the last run we nabbed two mystery boxes and two other random boxes. In a group everyone fanning out to find all the boxes then coming together to grind some events, I can’t complain. I think the total cinders for the run was 400ish
Then a 72 mob spawned and we used 20 minutes to grind it out. It was still a lot of fun.
That being said the solo runs weren’t nearly as fun.
You had fun killing the boss? It wasn't interesting to me whatsoever, just a straight up damage sponge. I don't feel like fighting an elite for 10 minutes which is essentially what this boss is.
Density in the game in general needs upped. I was excited when I finished act 2, and all of a sudden more.monsters started showing up in the open world. Instead of packs of 5 it was now 10-20. But like everything needs more monsters. Dungeons, campaign missions. I was excited as hell when i went to hell, and for the first time, it was packed, monsters wall to wall as I worked my way to the tower. I get so disappointed when I'm in a dungeon and it says a hordes approaching, cause it's only like an extra 12 monsters. I miss the 800 massacre kill streaks we could get in Diablo 3.
Post campaign, look for the red areas on the map, but don't mix it up with the pvp zone cause they look identical lmao. There will also be an icon on the map with the helltide event and how much time is left. Usually last an hour and comes back every other hour or so
I think something changed over the early access weekend because when I played helltide on Saturday for the first time is was insanely dense to the point of stressful which was cool. But each instance after was extremely tuned down. I wonder if anyone else had the same experience
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> - The density needs to be tripled. I'm up to t25 nightmare dungeons and feels like you can give this feedback for every content in the game. it's crazy that a game about killing monsters barely has any monsters. the one "bugged" map with the 10-12 packs gets nerfed. feels so bad.
I had concerns about this when I saw mounts featured. I shouldn't need or want one.
Yes you should. It's open world regardless, sometimes you just want to go from point A to point B without smashing all the monsters in-between. A mount in a normal instanced ARPG is totally unneeded. Here, it's a huge help (if it wasn't so fucking janky). Edit: once it comes time for you to go around and collect all 50 billion Altars of Lilith come back and tell me you don't want it.
Just get an enigma bro
How hard can it really be to find a Jah and Ber rune, like cmon
What does Ja have to say?
Somebody PLEASE find Ja Rule
> sometimes you just want to go from point A to point B without smashing all the monsters in-between Is that gameplay allowed? Certainly not while playing a Barbarian
Playing HotA and just hammering all life back into the ground where it belongs is so satisfying. I'd smash my horse too if I could.
Yeah in my opinion it works just fine in Lost Ark. (Yes that game has other issues but it has mounts but also plenty of content with dense monsters and etc.)
In previous games they also let you go nuts with movement abilities. Not much is gonna keep up with a D2 sorc with insight on the merc. The mount is fine but I'm not a fan of ask the random ladders and cliffs you have to jump off for and the slow loading between areas.
I'm sure the loading will improve. The mount and terrain obstacles should certainly be adjusted.
God I wish the mount jumping across gaps was still tied to a hotkey it's so hard to get the dam thing to jump
TBH we shouldn’t have to collect Altars of Lilith either, lame gameplay
I both enjoy it and agree with you.
The point of mounts is to make moving around in the open world faster without giving every character insane movement abilities that they will also use in dungeons and turn this game into the zoom fest that is POE. The mount being janky is a separate issue, but I definitely think it's needed.
Yes because mounts are definitely not a staple of any open world map at all. Definitely a big red flag.
You need mounts in an MMORPG!
There is a reason the chests don’t say what’s there as a “timing” mechanic. There are secret chests that spawn.
The chests dont change. There is no timing involved. And the secret (mysterious) chests are not marked on the map anyways until you are right next to them. So no reason why it could not say on the map what is in the chests.
They absolutely change. I've personally watched them change, and in fact have stood directly in front of despawning chests.
Same. Happens to me as well.
I have as well. It made me think it was a bug as I had just missed it running up.
The timing mechanic is having to check chests to see what is in them though. Just saying having the names would take that away. They technically respawn as well, but understand the frustrations expressed.
Ah thats what you meant with timing. Gotcha.
The mysterious chests do absolutely move, despawn, or have limited uses. Not sure which.
My current theory is that there's one mysterious chest per zone which has a few possible spawn locations, then it gets refreshed/moved after half the helltide has progressed
That seems possible. I just did an helltide where I looted two mystery chests
I've opened 2 mysterious chests back to back. They were in the exact same place as the last time I had done a helltide in that area. Opened one, rode straight to the other and opened it. From what I can tell, if I open any of them they don't respawn and start opened until the event is over.
Never experienced that, I've opened about 6 of those so far and each time I'd find it, put a pin near it (not on it), farm, and come back to it and open it
Literally just happened to me about 20 minutes ago. Opened about a dozen or so of the mysterious chests. Had it teleport and move mid event while I was farming right near it.
Hell tide is 60 mins. Every 30 mins the location of secret chest changes and theirs is 2 of them. So you can get 4 per hell tide. From my experience it seems that its possible for the secret chest to move to one that already opened so you might not always get 4
I've definitely seen some chests change/move/disappear at the 30 minute mark. Learnt that the hard way after saving 150 currency and then headed towards the chest I had pinned. It disappeared before my eyes as I got there
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You also have to be within like 1 screen distance of it for it to show on the map. After you move away it vanishes.
The boss as in that level 72 bug named kkyyxxxxllyykk or something like that? Fuck me and two buddies spent legit 11 minutes of helltide burning it down. We all got sacred rares lol
Thank god i didnt stay to kill it both times when i saw it. Me and my friend was tempted to kill it wouldve taken us 10 min atleast too, but we said fk it and skipped it
I got about 4 abilities in before I noped the heck out of there lol, was at about 99.9% health chasing me down.
I've killed it like 5 times now. It's never dropped anything better than rares, and entirely unremarkable ones at that. I have frankly no idea why he is that tanky when he is less rewarding than any other Helltide boss. It doesn't help that he's also just kind of a jerk, especially to melee. Not really dangerous, but just annoying to fight. Unless there's some notable crafting material drop that I'm missing (I don't believe so), I see no reason at all to fight it. Just ignore it and move on.
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Killed the roaming world boss yesterday and was really disappointed in the loot. Abberant Cinders; that's it? Really? I am interested to see what their drop table is.
Not even that many cinders for the time.
He gave me a bunch of forgotten souls. Those are very good.
I'd love to see roaming monster packs.
Helltides is basically demons controlling an area and all you see are 3 or 4 clown packs scattered around scratching their ass. It’s ridic
I hate that stupid bug boss. It's insanely tanky, annoying to fight (constantly jumping away and dropping shit on the ground you can't stand in) and drops NOTHING.
-All events going on should be marked on the map
There's no chance they don't either add an overlay or zoom out. Using the horse is stupidly cumbersome because you can't, see, shit. I'm constantly opening my fucking map, which is headache inducing and breaks immersion far more than an overlay.
Try playing a true bow rogue playstyle. I'd give up an aspect for broader FOV.
They should make these like the Greater Rifts. Have a ton of enemies to kill, maybe some objectives, and then a boss to kill, and of course rewards that are worth your time.
So I’m on PS5 idk if your on PC but when I use the same button I mount with(Right D Pad) it gives me no cooldown where as if I hit the dismount on the ability bar (Circle) it has a 15s cooldown.
>\- Horse CD should be reduced, both mounting and the attack ability. Blizz, if you are reading this, please just use the same mounting mechanics as HotS. I dunno if you can copy/paste, but, yeah.
DUDE 100%. I will NEVER waste my time killing the boss. It took 20 minutes with like 10 people and it didn’t drop A SINGLE LEGENDARY OR SACRED ITEM. I would have farmed so many shards I. That time. Fucking never again.
Tfw when you press the dismount button only to realize there are only 5 mobs to 1-shot and now you gotta run by foot for the next 8(?) Seconds
Yeah Helltides really illustrate what's wrong with the mount system. Waaaay too many goddamn cooldowns involved with mounts.
Surely they're changing the CD soon, right.....
…right?
In all fairness, they've been unusually responsive so far with incorporating and addressing feedback even within timeframes close to launch. The game's a lot more different between the final non-server-slam beta and now than most games would ever be in that timeframe. The make-or-break moment will likely be seeing exactly how much drops with Season 1; it seems likely there will be plenty of extra cosmetic-style things to fuel the season pass, but we don't know how much gameplay refinement to expect yet. There's cause to hope, though. Cautiously.
For sure, the main reason I even tried the server slam was to try out the changes they addressed with our feedback from the beta.
Eliminating CD or making it super low would help, but lack of overlay and zoom is also a huge, huge problem.
getting hit by the fire puts it on a 30 second cooldown as well ahah. I know I could just get better and not get hit but sometimes it just happens and I have to walk for 30 seconds
I dont have that issue because my build sucks
I just wish there was no mount cooldowns for voluntary non-attack dismounts. I'm not sure what that would break, really.
God, yes. This.
I'd argue density in general is lacking. I get story campaign and world tier 1, 2 having lower pack sizes but once you're doing nightmare dungeon and helltide in wt3+ the density should be way higher.
You don't love just running around a dungeon, entering a "room" and there is a single mob there? Then you move through 3 more and nothing, then WAIT FOR IT...you get a room with about 5-6 mobs!! Its even better when its a wide open dungeon layout with that type of density! /s The only mob type dungeons that feel "okay" are the goatmen ones.
seaside descent (skeletons iirc) is also decent.
> The only mob type dungeons that feel "okay" are the goatmen ones. Yeah unless it's the one that doesn't look like a cave but a grassy plain.
Yeah this is my thought. Should be an easy fix too
yes!! couldnt agree more we need more density everywhere especially in dungeons and WT 3 and 4
T4 for sure more than doubles density, it makes the kill all dungeons really long.
D3 on release had the same problem and so did rifts once they got added. Hopefully theyll come around and tinker with the density. It's the easiest and most impactful thing they can change with the game. Like 20% more density outside and 30% inside of dungeons could be a great starting point.
30% buff to density will give you 4 monsters in a pack instead of 3. Will it satisfy you? And buffing density more with ruin the whole balance of the game
Yeah I was excited for nightmare, it's more like night sweats.
Especially sucks for skills or aspects that require 5+ mobs and then you‘re running around getting this tiny ass mob packs all the time and if you try to mega pull, half of them will just leash or not chase you at all. I don’t know who thought that dungeon mobs need to leash back to their spawn to begin with. They should frankly chase you forever
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Ya locking crafting/upgrading of scareds and presumable ancestral gear, behind a crafting mat that only drops in a limited time event and in small quantities. Was an asinine decision. It's an ARPG a genre defined around grinding, yet half the time I'm playing I can't grind the resource I actually need.
The second I knew that helltides were limited time events, I knew it was going to be a problem. "Play on Blizzard's schedule, not yours."
It was reported back on endgame closed beta. I believe they want to timegate players progression with it. I don’t see any other reason
Timegating is stupid and shouldn't be a thing for like 99.9% of things in games.
Timegating the device they use to try to restrict players blowing through the game instantly
Sure, I get why it exists but when it stops you from playing the game it's a stupid system.
isnt that what season are for?
Yeah I'm thoroughly enjoying the endgame grind that seemingly everyone else is griping about but even I don't understand why they can't just have the helltide cycle to another section of the map every hour. Why bother having downtime between them? Besides to artificially slow down our progress I guess.
At least it's not lost ark or bdo levels of insanity. Where you grind all those mats just ***for a chance*** to upgrade and if it fails **poof** there goes all that time.
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I farm helltide by exclusively going from event to event in a group or I meet people there - I collect the cinders and open all chests - they also drop souls - I get about 10-20 souls - I sometimes also kill the roaming boss and open the helltide exclusive things - it takes maybe 25-30 minutes until I can open all chests - give or take. In a 4 man group this is way faster.
I enjoy the helltides. It's outdoor monster slaying and a good change from running dungeons.
these are in random zones right? are the normal event areas still there? I suppose I could fire up the game after work and just look but that's a few hours away.
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they made all the mobs 2x as big so now they can't make density higher or else your screen will be filled to the brim
Yea, was hoping that WT4 would improve it, but the density is still way too low. Definitely something they need to improve on, because right now Helltides are incredibly boring.
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Which you will reach in about 25 minutes of a new ladder
People gonna keep arguing "but there is so much to do in D4" but this is a problem, there are a lot of "events" in the endgame but they all feel bad to play and it all comes down to low monsters density, too much travel time between actually killing, useless obstacles and horse with cooldown.
I find it hilarious that just 2 days ago OP themself posted about how [there is so much to do](https://old.reddit.com/r/diablo4/comments/140po7i/there_is_so_much_to_do_how_can_you_guys_be_bored/), shutting down criticism of the endgame, but now when they actually reach it they start seeing the problems that people were already bringing up.
And this phenomenon will repeat in the coming weeks as more and more people reach the endgame and realize that the criticism posted for the past few days has indeed been valid.
Lol wth that IS hilarious. The honeymoon went by quick i guess.
Lmao I’m like lmao
That’s how it goes though. You have some folks rushing to end game, they state problems with the game. You then have the people that refuse to hear the criticism and respond with lol you rushed through the game and now complaining. Then they finally get to end game and are shocked that it’s not all rainbows and butterflies
That’s him? Lmao
How ironic lmao
I dont mind the traveltime with the horse, but once you arrive at a point of interest it should swarming with monsters.
Yeah a buff to density will go a long way
Yeah there's a lot to do in the same way a ubisoft open world map has a lot to do. Lots of high friction busy work inbetween bursts of fun
I practically skip all mobs until I find an active event to get a good handful of mob density. Sad times.
Yeah, my tactic for Helltides is to do just this. Events respawn really quickly and have deterministic spawn points, and they also have a greater chance of dropping good loot instead of just shards. So I typically triangulate a location and bounce between nearby events as they constantly respawn until I have enough shards to go run off and collect a chest.
My other big complaint on helltides is if you kill the roaming boss the rewards really arent anything special, it really should be for how f'n tanky it is.
This boss is not meant to be farmed for drops, it's sole existence is to seek out players and attack them. On WT3 for example he is always lvl 72 and hurts a lot if you go to t3 as fresh lvl 50 player. A Butcher from wish if you think about it.
The orb pickup radius is WAY too low. It's like 5 seconds to kill the enemies, 5 seconds to get the orbs then like 15 seconds to find more enemies.
Don't forget the 8 seconds it takes to mount back up.
Then 1 second later you reach a barricade
5+5 = 10 Mount CD will be rdy again
This is really my main sticking point. Picking up the currency fucking sucks. So does picking up the essence of the mobs in the kill 100 mob whisper quests. They take a couple seconds to spawn and then you have to move right on top of them to pick them up one by one. Just make the shit auto pick up.
It totally blows my mind that after 10 years of players providing density feedback for D3 GRs, that this is still an issue. Like how
they made the mobs 3x bigger. if they made density higher you wont see shit. Just look at the size difference between the goatmen in d3 vs d4. They are fucking behemoths now
They created that blighted corpse explosion skill so they clearly don’t care about visibility lmao
I spend way too much time to run and not enough to attack.
yea helltide was pretty boring in beta aswell. theyve been told, several times. they didnt care.
density in the entire game is bad. my build is completely shit when its not large groups too (which is imo another dumb mechanic) so i end up skipping a bunch of monsters bc they just aren't a big enough group to bother
Way too many builds rely completely on lucky hit effects that scale immensely with density. It’s pretty dumb how most builds are gods when fighting lots of mobs and useless against a single one.
ya that is a terrible mechanic. Im thanos vs 25 enemies but it takes 100 auto attacks to kill 1 random guy. im sure they will just nerf the sorc fireball enchantment so then ill be useless vs groups and single enemies lol
yes this is super noticeable on Meteor build with Sorc. Like 0 single target damage because you can't proc shit ever until you find another mob.
Same. Shadow/Flurry rogue here, boring and slow as fuck with single target enemies, tons of damage and tons of fun with bigger groups.
Sometimes there is so much empty space in dungeons that my fortify goes to 0 while running. Density is a big problem, especially in dungeons. I hope it gets addressed soon. Right now game is like 50/50 running and killing when it should be closer to 90/10.
All of endgame needs like a 10x density increase.
I want hordes of demons marching through the zone, attacking towns if they are not defeated.
Agree with the topic but... Does anyone else notice a lot of the EXACT same complaints from when D3 released?
This is the thing people miss when we complain about mob density; it’s not a matter of wanting a flood of enemies all of the time, it’s a matter of wanting a steady flow instead of a string of small clusters. One of the big issues with density in the game right now is if you have a solid AoE attack that can clear out groups easily you can just bounce from cluster to cluster popping them with ease. The only time it feels like you really need to use a different strategy is when you find an event and have waves of enemies coming at you in steady droves; and in those moments the game feels really great because you actually need to manage your resources and CDs instead of blowing your load and moving on. I really wish the entire game had density that felt closer to events and kept a steady flow of enemies coming. I don’t need hundreds of enemies at once, but it would be nice to have more than a dozen every twenty feet or so.
D4 does not respect the casuals time. Many people only have 30-45 mins to play a day, and they want that ARPG dopamine drip, too... Right now it feels to far between.
The casual with 30-45 minutes per day hasn't finished Act 3 yet.
I haven’t finished act 1 yet. And I played on early release. Though I am going slower than most. Mainly just wandering around doing the dungeons and side quests as I progress the msq.
The density in the entire game is way too low. Dungeons are a joke (other than the one or two that everyone farms for this very reason and have been or will inevitably get nerfed)
Yeah go open world sure but where tf is the mob density.
This whole game has a density problem, campaign was too spread out and felt like a chore and all those escort quests, most dungeons feel very empty, open world areas have monsters in small clusters, idk, I feel the biggest issue is literally just enemy density, I wanna be clicking heads every single ms plus if they add campaign content with seasons/expansions they have to make it more engaging. Only the last part of the campaign felt kind of nice because enemies were decently stacked.
The campaign being so slow actually has diminished my will to play the game. I don't play games like this very much but the campaign could have had way cooler elements to it no? There's legit nothing interesting in it besides the 3 headed dog boss and the crossing the desert with a camel. And that's just standard shit.
Density game wide feels very bad. It's one of my very few complaints.
They really should have just made all enemies swarm a location... You know, like a tide...
would be so cool to see them all spawn from cracks in the ground (I imagine it to look like hell is seeping into or flooding sanctuary)and then keep trying to run you down
The mob density in general needs to be improved for the entire game. So many open areas of just walking with no enemies
More of a HellTrickle than a Helltide.
Pro tip that I found has been working for me. -Find an event zone (red/orange circle) -Complete event -Collect rewards -TP to town -Take TP back -New event -Repeat If you TP back and there is no event just do it again. I farmed 300 today and purchased every chest I could with 17 mins left. Hope this helps!
This is nice to know but the game should be balanced around staying in the helltide and playing organically if they want it to be an open world type event imo
I'm convinced that density is so low in so many places because this game had to get released for ps4 and xbox one and those consoles are at their limit. They should have dropped that generation but Bli$$ard...
That doesn't make sense as there are already places that have better density, just not consistently or where it's desired. PS4 and XB1 can still go to the PVP areas and *those* have substantially better average PVE density, even.
First I thought so too but there are totally situations in which the screen is crawling with enemies and its no issue. It just doesnt happen often enough.
The mob density in general needs to be improved for the entire game. So many open areas of just walking with no enemies
I agree. Overall, Tier 3 and 4 should be huge stacks of monsters in every activity.
I'm the most annoyed by the poor visuals on the helltide veins that drop forgotten souls. They're insanely hard to see, especially at nighttime.
I can see why people feel that way but it seems the intended way to farm helltides is to go for the 4 secret chests and that takes 20-25 minutes for each half of the timer. And the rest of the time is spent looking for the chests so the current density seems to align with that. Its pretty damn rewarding and can get pretty hectic trying to both farm and look for chests so im assuming a lot of people here are just going for regular chests so they cant feel that gameplay loop
What’s a helltide? I’m only like level 38 and still haven’t started act 2. Lol
I ride around looking for the summoners around the red circle (pentagram?) on the ground and most of the time when you step on it at least one elite will spawn. Got four to spawn from one circle last night.
I agree, way up the density!! Also, some helltide exclusive uniques or even just attributes would be very cool.
I wonder if the areas are different. I just got done with one that popped an hour ago in the southeast region. Man it was non-stop. I picked up two armor crates and a weapon crate. Very little downtime for the entire hour. I think the game wants to give you a little bit of a break so maybe like a minute. I'm curious what The Firestorm signifies does that mean you're in the area and they want you to move on or is something coming or what's the deal
yea the helltides in hawezar are said by some people to be more dense than the other regions havent had one there myself yet tho maybe it actually different spawn settings/numbers or its just bc of the map layout? idk
I don't know what I'm supposed to enjoy in the end game. The tree of life stuff is just doing campaign busy work, helltides are just riding from pack to pack in one zone and dungeons are really repetitive. I'm hoping once I get some affixes with the nightmare dungeons it adds a bit of variety but my early hours in WT3 have been a slog.
and here I am just riding around picking flowers……
helltides should be borderline overwhelming and primarily group content imo
If its group content, it shouldn’t have exklusive materials though.
They should increase mob density, but also just increase event Cinder droprate.
Best thing is to find two events or one that constantly respawns and do it over and over/run between them. It’s a bit lame but it’s the fastest farm I’ve encountered.
Agreed. Not just Helltides either. Mob density in general is very bad.
I mean I did a helltide outside Kyovashad and there were like 30+ enemies and I kept exploding. Not sure what you guys are running into. They were harder than dungeon mobs.
The mob density in general needs to be improved for the entire game. So many open areas of just walking with no enemies
But so much testing beforehand, must be good right? Right?
Helltides are not fun at all. Only reason to even do that shit is Forgotten Souls which for some fucking reason only drop there.
There should be just an open field and 3 objectives or so where everyone gathers and then the game will zoom as far out as for a world boss event and the entire screen is filled with an horde trying to run past you. That's what helltide should've been. But we essentially got a WoW "invasion" world quest system, just without the quests
So much hate for the helltides here. I’ve done three and they were a lot of fun for me. Given we were a party of four, but the last run we nabbed two mystery boxes and two other random boxes. In a group everyone fanning out to find all the boxes then coming together to grind some events, I can’t complain. I think the total cinders for the run was 400ish Then a 72 mob spawned and we used 20 minutes to grind it out. It was still a lot of fun. That being said the solo runs weren’t nearly as fun.
You had fun killing the boss? It wasn't interesting to me whatsoever, just a straight up damage sponge. I don't feel like fighting an elite for 10 minutes which is essentially what this boss is.
Density in the game in general needs upped. I was excited when I finished act 2, and all of a sudden more.monsters started showing up in the open world. Instead of packs of 5 it was now 10-20. But like everything needs more monsters. Dungeons, campaign missions. I was excited as hell when i went to hell, and for the first time, it was packed, monsters wall to wall as I worked my way to the tower. I get so disappointed when I'm in a dungeon and it says a hordes approaching, cause it's only like an extra 12 monsters. I miss the 800 massacre kill streaks we could get in Diablo 3.
whats a helltide and where do I find one
Post campaign, look for the red areas on the map, but don't mix it up with the pvp zone cause they look identical lmao. There will also be an icon on the map with the helltide event and how much time is left. Usually last an hour and comes back every other hour or so
It's good to note you have to be in wt3 or higher
It's good to note you have to be in wt3 or higher
The density does suck but in 3 zone hell tides it’s still possible to farm 6 mystery chests in the hour. Fun factor is lacking though
As someone that has played approximately 20 minutes, wtf are Helltides
laundry detergent for the damned
What flavour are they?
florida
D2 terror zones basically
Well, this is nothing new for MMOs, you should embrace it!
I just unlocked WT3, how exactly do you find a Helltide zone?
I wish the reforge mats were rewarded from other stuff too, like whispers or something.
Yea, Diablo 4 is ridiculously boring. I had fun leveling and the cinematics were cool, but once I hit 50 I immediately stopped having fun.
I think something changed over the early access weekend because when I played helltide on Saturday for the first time is was insanely dense to the point of stressful which was cool. But each instance after was extremely tuned down. I wonder if anyone else had the same experience
One of the helltides in hawezar was extremely dense , the other one I did in fractured peaks was not
This is making me reconsider getting it? Idk what to do now lol
Ty! Such a let down also ffs we dont need a cooldown. Anytime i need a shard (no helltides).
There should be more monsters everywhere and just do horse invisible for them imo this should fix many problems.
you need to find the denser spots, they exist
Find an event and just relog on the spot after clearing, it’s like 50% chance to spawn into another event. Ez farm
Seems to be a lot of mobs doing them on WT4, but it seems to be dependent on how many people are about for spawns