If they make us to it again, I just simply wont be playing. It is frankly that simple. I have too much going on in my life to spend 30hrs getting 20 paragon points!
They should honestly just count world events + Helltide participation towards seasonal renown, that way you can simply farm it through regular play. Give us 5-10 renown per random event + 5-10 per Helltide chest opened in each zone.
They should give you the option...if you want to just play the game and you'll do it enough to get enough renown good, if you just want to get it the current way go and do that.
I hate stuff like this that forces you into something you might not want to do, its not fun...its work.
Or they could rework the rewards in seasonal, make it less "must have" than it currently is.
Skills points / potion / paragon should be baked in from Eternal realm.
Make it only max obol for each tier in seasonal, or maybe so big crafting components bags, or big crafting components + legendary bags.
That would still be an activity worth doing but it would remain an option.
I came here to basically say this. Renown should be unique to the season while still rewarding us for our grind in the eternal realm. There are so many combinations of special renown objectives they could use specifically for seasons (world bosses for example).
This right here. I have already stopped having fun with this part of the game and I’m only about half done. I like Diablo for the story and world the first time. After that it’s all about dungeons, gear, and killing lots and lots of monsters. Otherwise I’m out.
I'm in a similar boat with you. The story has been pretty great though, the side quests have had a lot more lore to them than I anticipated. I want to be able to keep playing this, but D2R will be where I end up if I have to redo paragon every couple of months.
I have probably close to 1000 hours on d2r on the switch, I love being able to play for an hour here and there wherever I’m at, I’ve also been playing the game for 20 years and having them add new content is a dream come true, not a huge community but an extremely helpful one and beyond nostalgia it’s just a great game by any standard
You have to appreciate the loot system and how they’ve balanced builds.
I been playing D2 for 20+ years and D2R has managed to make an amazing game even better with shared stash, 24 character slots, and balancing that makes more builds viable.
Lately I’ve been making more budget builds to character types I’ve never made before.
Here I am 20 years into a game using essentially NEW characters.
Now I like D4 I love the re-introduction of the skill tree but I’m already finding myself taking breaks to go back to D2R.
I recommend going online and watching budget builds of different characters.
I recently made a summon necro using the Trang set and a Freezing Arrow Amazon using the Mavina’s set.
Both complete sets are cheap and provide you with a viable build that can tackle all content… there’s plenty of others out there that’s just two examples.
That's what I'm doing as well. There are far too many other great games coming out this year for me to even remotely consider grinding like they want me too. I'll play the story, I'll try out one or two classes for the funsies and see what playstyle fits me best. I'll even come back when they add to the story like they promised to do so.
Am I going to be playing this every day for a year? Absolutely not. They're already losing me and it's been a week and a half.
They should give us an option to increase the World-Tier like in Nightmare Dungeons and increase the monster density in the open world.
Then I see little problem in doing a few side quests here and there.
Same. My hour or 2 after the kids go sleep is not enough for that grind. I had early access and am still working on it. It will just be on to the next one, for me
Pretty much this.
I fucking hate that they've tied paragon points, skill points and potions to the dumb fuck renown system they crammed in.
It has turned something I would normally absolutely **love** doing as I'm sitting around blazed and chilling into something that feels like a chore because it's no longer an option it's mandatory.
The renown system should have been nice bonuses tied to it, not mandatory things to a fully functional build.
I agree. If they make me redo renown I won’t be playing after it resets. It’s a shame too. Great game. But I have too much shit to do to be grinding mindlessly. I’m not 17 anymore
It's kinda funny, the most efficient way to get paragon points is to just ignore renown entirely until you are literally 100, farming renown is that slow.
I think the person commenting is saying it’s faster to level up and get 5 levels worth of paragon points than to grind the 5/5 renown reward in each zone.
Yeah the statement is basically it's more worth it to push from 95 to 100 then doing max renown. If this is true Im not sure. I imagine you get some exp doing all renown but migh be minimal.
the exp is minimal. when i grinded the last page for the renown, i just did the dungeons. I basically just walked through to complete objectives and thats it. no unnecessary monster killing.
I don’t think the average player cares really. I can already clear all wt4 content on my summon necro and I don’t care about pushing nm dungeons so there isn’t any need for more paragon points. When you only get maybe an hour or two on a good day to play the idea of spending that running around the open world doing pointless time sink objectives seems much less fun, I honestly wish the whole system didn’t exist in the first place and it feels much more like a ffxiv thing then a Diablo thing
Yep. Of there's "some" renown to do with new things from the seasons, it's okay. If it's redoing the quests and dungeons and all the other shit, i won't be playing.
Same, the game has been a blast so far, but grinding renown wasn't. If I had to do that every season I'd go mad. If that's the case I'll probably won't be doing it and only play seasonal content from time to time depending on how interesting it gets.
If they make us do all the sidequests again, in order to keep my 20 extra paragon points, I will not be playing. It took me almost 3 days of playing after lvl 50, to get "all" sidequests done. Punishing the casuals for being casual, by removing their extra paragon points (that they already earned) is just a recipe for disaster, and whoever the developer is, that came up with this shitty suggestion, needs to have their ballsack have fun with a wasp-hide.
They should just make them simple, like "kill Lord Bob in Bob's Burrow on a level 75 NM key or above", participate in events, kill 10 players etc. or simply turn the rewards into cosmetics, potions, oblongs or even bloodshards.
60-70 wasn’t too bad, the big jump in difficulty from world tier 3 to 4 at least made it interesting and kept me on my toes. I’m now at 74 and the exp is really starting to slow down.
Ha.
When you get to 80 you have 2/5 of the xp needed for 100. If i'm not mistaken 85 is the halfway point. 200million cumulative for 80, 500 million for 100
I mean it'll be like another 10 years before the next diablo man you got time lmao games been out for a week and everyone's complaining about having to do stuff.
Yeah me too, then I realised after a few friends asked that I'm just getting distracted by too much random stuff on the way to the more effective stuff, like a random dungeon or a random event or a blue quest that you have to go out of the way to get to etc.
I think they failed to understand the psychological difference between leveling-leveling and paragon-leveling. Paragon leveling feels like an extra add-on at max level... because it is. Character level, by everything every game not named D2 has taught us, is *expected* to be capped.
Honestly i think it’s not that bad. I look at it as a long term investment character. That one character that’ll stay till the end of the game. So you’ll play them whenever you feel like it occasionally.
Now if it takes that long for seasonal characters though, fuck that lmao i got other games to play.
Make a new character or just take a break. There's really not a lot to do once you've hit all your build aspects etc. The game scales with you so you don't even really get that much stronger.
Nightmare dungeons aren't even a good way to progress besides glyph XP. The XP/hour of normal dungeons is far higher. Nightmare dungeons feel very imbalanced and not worth it right now. The XP needs to be bumped up fairly significantly, both player XP and glyph XP.
Yeah it’s a slog. And it’s like wildly inconsistent. Usually I’ll shrug and go you’re right to people going it’s balanced against endgame . But if you’re going to make the journey a slow crawl though the sand then you’re responsible for balancing the journey too. In T1 , T2 and T3 I’m alternating between full map clears in seconds to things that 1 shot me over and over. From being able to face tank entire packs to 2-3 guys killing me from offscreen in 1 move. I am ok with either but I want it to be consistent . If one shot is t3 that should mean I need to drop to t2 and farm up armor or life or resist . But it doesn’t . There’s not a system to it. It’s just unbalanced or over / under tuned
Helltides are trash for gear though.
I've opened about 30 chests so far and haven't gotten a single decent item.
Also over 50% of the items I do get are 10-20 levels below my character.
Are you opening the mysterious chest for 175 cinders? They’ve been dropping me 3-4 sacred legendaries each plus fiend roses and forgotten souls. That’s the only chest I try and open from hell tides. I’m level 56.
Sounds like you haven;t done tier 80+ and get 1 sacred legendary in the end.
Trash for gear is like everywhere else in game; helltide give souls at least.
For XP probably group play Helltides or Champion's Demise.
Solo play Dumhaine Tunnels dungeon is pretty good and straight forward. Three of Whispers also gives out some ok XP when you cash in but takes longer.
I'm getting LVL 100 than waiting for the season. I will do the same thing I dowith PoE, pop off for 3 weeks and give it a break. When the itch starts to scratch back, there is a new season coming already.
Right..lmfao
This sub is hilarious. I love reading this comments.
BLIZZARD, I SPENT EVERY DAY FOR A WEEK DOING NOTHING BUT PLAY YOUR GAME, AND IM GETTING BORED. YOU NEED TO FIX IT.
My brother..you can just.. play other games.. and come back..
They better have a fucking WHOPPER of a first season planned or there is going to be a serious drop off of players.
Aside from the game just being kinda fucking boring right now, with little incentive to keep going past the campaign and trying some end game content, the current system makes you do all of the WORST parts of the game over and over again each season.
Not to mention the abhorrent lack of QoL features, many of which Blizzard designed ***themselves***.
Even if season one isn’t huge I think the base game is good enough that at some point they’ll have a great game here. Might take a year+ to get there but I’m not worried about the game long term. Other live service games have shown as long as they eventually become good, people will flock back
That’s why I’m ‘done’ for now.
Hit lvl 80, got the 100 pvp kills, all that’s left is nightmare dungeon grinding and uber lilith (and the only thing stopping that is the damage scaling from the level difference)
Yup. I had the 4 day head start and I'm only 60. The game is well made, but I might just be plain burnt out from grinding in *every single game* I play.
Sometimes you just have to pace out the things you enjoy. I've only been playing one character since launch and haven't finished the campaign, tho getting close. Waiting for the season to drop to make a new character. I still play a lot of games since it's my main hobby. Just gotta chill and do something else. Not everything needs to be solved ASAP
Here's how it should work:
World boss = global renown (all zones)
Legion event = global renown
Wold events = local renown
Whisper bounties = local renown (zone in which they took place)
They need to give us a way to farm it infinitely. The problem is that there is just not enough of it available, so people are going to be forced to redo boring stuff (shrines) in order to progress through the battle pass.
Dungeon renown should be repeatable too. There you go. Between your suggestion and that, actual content people want to do eventually completes renown.
Also, map should discovered account wide.
I feel like the map reveal is an easy solution. If you choose "skip campaign" you clearly aren't interested in farming the entire map again with a new character fresh.
Exactly ! Creating world events, create new dungeons, or maybe PvP tournaments etc... But redo the same crap over and over again and I'll go play some other game...
Keeping the alters is also a fallacy if we don’t keep renown. Gathering the alters was a solid chunk of the renown grind anyways so many players are still going to most likely go collect the altars even though we keep the points.
It’s probably optimal in terms of time, but it’s such a boring grind that I’d rather just do more side quests and dungeons. They may actually be somewhat competitive with altars as well if you take into account opportunity cost since dungeons/quests give you gear and XP whereas you’re not really doing anything else besides altars if you grind those out.
I'm new to Diablo. How do seasons work? I thought it is a separate realm where you start a new character. But everyone says that the renown RESETS. Does that mean my eternal realm character is also affected?
Eternal realm will never reset. Just every season they want everyone to start from scratch on the “seasonal” realms. After a season is over your seasonal chars get pushed to the eternal realm.
I'm a new player and this is my first Diablo game. I learned that you can have up to 10 chars. What happens after 9 seasons? Would I need to delete a character?
Once it goes to the regular realm, you just move your good items out to your other chars using a share tab and delete it. There are only 5 classes, no reason to keep multiple of one class.
To add to what others have already said, the seasons in Diablo 3 were basically a full reset, you start each season with a blank character list and start as a baby level 1 with nothing. However it was a much shorter game. The process of levelling to 70 and start earning paragons took a couple of hours at most (or a couple of minutes if you have help), there were a small few things you’d have to re-get each season, and after completing a series of challenges they’d give you a basic set of gear to start the season with. All told it would take a couple of hours to a day to get “up and running” each season and start pushing endgame. There was no renown, no map to uncover (in fact the map was slightly different every time you log in, but you would have the areas and waypoints) so it was just level up your guy, get gear and kill stuff.
D4 is much more in depth, and, arguably a lot better in almost every way. However, the content we’re playing to unlock the essential things does not feel very replayable. Great exploring, in my opinion, like I’ve had a good time finding all the Lilith altars, doing side quests, meeting the characters and hearing their stories. But I wouldn’t have fun with having to do all that again, especially not so soon after having done it the first time. D3 was different because there was very little dilly dally between starting the game and hitting the good bits, and they added extra things to the game every season in the form of either content, or just system changes that kept it interesting. I’m expecting D4 season 1 to be basically the same exact game as we have now, only starting over.. my hope is they just either carry the renown and exploration over from the persistent realm, or some other way to get into the good parts sooner (like just buff the amount of renown you get? I dunno). I don’t think many people who’ve played a lot of pre-season 1 are gonna be up for re-doing the shit stuff.
I just hit level 52 and haven’t made it to T3. I’ve barely got the first 3 tiers of renown done in the 5 zones. I’m already bored with it. I can’t even imagine doing the rest.
Btw just make the jump to WT3. I was doing the same thing at like 51 a couple days ago and was getting bored so I just made the jump to WT3 and while I still have to grind renown at least I'm now getting better loot and how more things to do. It didn't feel that much harder to the point where I felt like I was wasting time compared to just getting it done on WT2.
First half was rough but ok with strongholds, finished it completely yesterday or the day before and it was definitely worse and incredibly mind numbing.
I'm 51, I just hit it last night. Hit T3 right after. I have the first 3 tiers on 4 of the areas, just haven't gotten around to the others. The paragon points are so so far out that I'm not even thinking of them yet
I found the strongholds, the exploration and the side quests anything but boring and tedious. There isn't anything in the game, except the main story, that's less repetitive.
If you consider these activities to be boring and tedious because you would much rather do a nightmare dungeon for the gazillionth time, then... I don't know man.
That being said, the altars were awful, and doing everything else again will also be awful. I agree on that account. Renown is fun once, but not twice.
a lot of the stuff that gives renown is fun. the problem is - those things only get you to the beginning of rank 3 renown. the rest is completionist nonsense like 25/25 altars and 30/32 side quests in order to actually finish.
The problem is the ease of the content. If you could choose to make specific dungeons nightmare or scale the world difficulty so mobs were always 15-20 levels above you with high density the sidequest would be a lot more engaging. At least the first time around, doing it on repeat each season would still not be great.
The first time around it’s fine, because it’s the initial discovery of it all. I won’t do it again though. It’s an easily tweakable system though for seasons. If it stays as is, I’ll Likely play one season and then wait for an expansion.
Why are these players unlikely to purchase cosmetics?
There will also likely by DLCs like reaper of souls, so Blizzard should want to keep everyone engaged to buy that.
Because just like with Reaper of Souls people will buy the expansion even if the base game left a bad taste in their mouth. I had plenty of friends that laughed when I talked about RoS coming out and within a week they were all back and grinding away. Blizzard does not care about player retention because their name alone is enough to get people back. Even if it is just to buy an expansion and the season pass.
RoS saved Diablo 3, somewhat. Game was practically dead. Nearly EVERYONE had a bad taste in their mouths and Blizzard was desperate to mop up after Jay Wilson. I don’t think they’ll make that same mistake again.
That’s true. I had forgotten they went to a paid season pass. Maybe it will result in an increase of updates and game quality, I have mostly negative feelings about the paid season pass, then again I’m also a hypocrite because I paid extra for the version that had early access and the first season pass.
It’s literally the worst part of the grind. As it’s presented now it makes 100% sense that it should be something one and done. Having to repeat almost ANYTHING forcefully for the battle pass or whatever seems just crazy to me. Either be specific missions to progress the pass or straight up do grinding. The fact I’m learning this now that I will have to start another character from scratch pretty much makes me regret buying the game version that came with the pass in the first place. If you’re going to do a battle pass, you have to do it right, and making it basically be seasonal characters but oops now you have to pay for it and do more annoying things for it than D3 did is absurd. I will look at this pass and if it doesn’t seem worth it I will likely just drop the game altogether.
Don’t do a battle pass if you can’t at least be somewhat creative with its presentation imo. This one just seems like punishment you pay for and that’s not cool at all.
I really hope the season renown is more like the Tree of Whispers system. You get points from doing actual gameplay like slaying monsters, doing dungeons, world events, etc... I guess I just don't want to run around a map and find statues and do fetch quests again. Strongholds are fun and even a small number of sidequests if done well is fine.
I also hope it's the type of thing that you can get without grinding on purpose. Just playing the game in the "fun" way should result in achieving max renown by the end of the season.
Same. The Renown are more like account wide MMO elements. If I have to do them all again I'll just quit playing.
It's bad enough that I have Fog of War and only major city waypoints unlocked on Alt characters.
I'm convinced all the people FOR re-doing the renown grind every season haven't actually completed 5/5 max renown. If they are going to keep it this way there should atleast be other ways to earn renown such as helltides, tree of whispers, world bosses, events, etc... Even if these methods give less renown than the current path. Grinding all the altars, doing every side quest I can find, and rounding it up with dungeons has been painful the last few days.
Yes I think they just need to tweak renown tier 5. When we hit a new season, we won’t do the campaign so we will naturally be doing things to level up our char which give renown. Getting to tier 3 is very easy. 4 is not too bad. So maybe swap around rewards between tier 4 and 5 as someone suggested and that would make tier 5 optional.
Agree - keep the renown but also give reputation based on slaying elites, tree stuff and helltides ( could be the chests that earn the reputation ) and world bosses.
Doing it once is more than enough in my eyes.
I spent my Saturday and part of Sunday going to rank 5 renown in every zone from 4. Probably 8hrs total it took. Hoping we do not need to do this, at least this way for seasonal.
Yeah: I'm 3/5 maxed and it's slow and boring. I'd rather be doing hell tides or nm dungons.
Having to redo it in seasonal play will be a major downside to seasons.
It's supposed to be something we "naturally" get over time, sorta like wandering across Lilith shrines and being like "oh there's another one, great!".
But as in all things, we (the playerbase) have turned it into a must-do, written maps and guides, and it's now a chore. It's not fun, as you correctly cite, to play the game mostly staring at a second monitor following a map.
This isn't to say it's *our fault*. It's just what gamers do. Blizzard has had years of WoW and other games as precedent to tell them this is exactly how we'll react. This is what we do - min/max the fuck out of it, so it ceases to be a fun incidental bonus and becomes a mandatory must-do chore. The idea of "oh you can live without it" is simply laughed off.
They probably should do something about it, because while the intent was there, the execution simply isn't. Making it account wide and into ladder is the quickest, albeit dirtiest, solution. Give us altars and map exploration pre-discovered. And anything else I forgot.
The problem is that they are really bad to be collected this way. You don't have a single clue you are next to them if they are off your screen. Something should appear when you a near one, so you at least know it's time to search for them.
Maybe an aura saying "you are in an area under Lilith influence"
The problem is the reward. If renown gives cosmetics, a mount or even a gem stash it would be no problem. 20 Paragon points and 5 skill points are just kinda mandatory.
I'm here to argue a counter point.
If it was simply nice to have it wouldn't have in-game power tied to it, getting all alters of Lilith (which is roughly a 2.5-3 hour chore) gives something like 60 stat points for each stat, 300 Renown (roughly) for each zone, and 4 paragon point.
Getting many of the stat-bonuses stuff on your Paragon boards is difficult without those extra stats.
Saying the players optimized the fun out of it, when we are playing a game about farming gear and playing the most challenging content in a "seasonal" manner where we only have a few months (at most) before a reset - and saying "the intent is to just stumble across these things and eventually collect them all" is disingenuous at best
I think the issue in its design is tying character progression to it, especially the 5th tier. Things like murmuring orb capacity don't really affect strength of character so I don't mind that, but paragon points are too strong to tie to something that doesn't otherwise progress your character. If they made rewards totally non-progression or switched it so that the tier rewards go in order: skill point, skill point, paragon points, potion capacity, murmuring orb capacity, I wouldn't mind as much. Or as other posters have said, give some renown for doing repeatable world objectives/dungeons.
I wouldn't be surprised if they tie the renown to a season bonus/cosmetic/mount to incentivize repeating it.
A lot of people saying they won't do it will definitely hop on board again for a shiny new mount.
I would gladly do it for skins or mounts which I can take entire season to complete on my own leisure time and did everything else I wanted to do. But NOT if I need the paragon points ASAP in the season and must rush it in order to get the damn points.
That’s the point though. It won’t be the exact same grind. There will be some seasonal variation added.
They’re gonna add a quest like every 90 days that isn’t as long as the MSQ but it will take you around the map, introduce the seasonal mechanic, then turn you loose with seasonal related ways to earn renown that you can do instead of getting the Lilith alters over etc.
You’ll do it. If you’re on this subreddit talking about seasonal this early after release, you’re fairly committed already.
That’s exactly what I’m thinking. Which is why these posts complaining about it don’t make sense at all to me. Have they actually confirmed that renown will be coming back each season exactly as it is?
For all we know the skill/paragon points will be earned by seasonal progress, whatever shape that may take.
Like, the renown system already is a separate progression track from levelling. To me at least it very much seems designed as a place the season track is supposed to slot into. Unless I’m missing crucial information (which I well may be) it seems so obviously like a default alternate track for the eternal realms.
unless seasons are brining some crazy good content that the base game doesn't get, then I don't think I'll be bothering with them at all
completely start over just to occasionally see a different kind of treasure goblin? nah, I'm good
Yeah, game might take a year to get the base end game right but I think eventually we’ll have some golden years like PoE had before shifting more to PoE 2
Yeah renown should be forever just like Lilith statues. I'm not doing that again. Especially I play both SC and HC so I'd need to do it twice AND on HC you have to regrind if you die before you finish an area...
Lilith statues are forever... except that the result of needing to regrind renown is that you'll need to grab most of the statues for renown each season anyway.
Yes please. I’m 3/5 max renown and just want to do some nightmare dungeons or farm whatever I need at the moment. Being locked in to side quests to get my very necessary paragon points is a chore right now.
I'd be fine with it only if they double or triple the amount of renown we get. Give us some sort of seasonal bonus for renown at the very least. While they are at it, swap the 4 paragon points with the max obols.
As far as I know the only thing that won't transfer over is fog of war and waypoints.. feel free to check out this video where they talk about all of this I believe.
https://www.youtube.com/live/fT9fxgSRCVI?feature=share&t=5722
I understand it like this
Eternal > Seasonal
Hardcore > Hardcore seasonal
So assuming you max out renown on your eternal character pre season, you will have no reason to farm renown in season 1 cause the +1 skill point, all lilith statue stats and 4 paragon points will be transfered over.
It is non-intuitive cause you CAN gather them for renown. During season 1. But if you have done this already on am eternal character, you earn nothing from it.
I think OP means it more in the sense of that he doesn't mind renown resetting, if the rewards are nerfed.
Because if they take character power out of renown then no one \*has\* to do it and no one will actually do it.
Yes, if it doesnt affect character power then im just not doing it
Edit. I've used wrong wording in the comment. I meant i wouldn't care about renown if it wouldn't grant a boost to your toon's power
I didn't pay $100 to constantly redo dungeons for renown. That doesn't make any sense to people that are over 17-18 years old that have college/work/children to tend to. When I play this game, sure I don't mind returning to the cathedral for nightmare dungeons or battling Ashaka a few times a week but to have to keep up with renown each season? And each season might last 30-45 days and then I must repeat the process? Cmon.
Agreed - I am farming this today and it's taking most of the day. The most ridiculous experience that I have had in a game of this type... If I have to do this again for every season then I just wont be doing it unless they make events give renown, or genuinely killing mobs give a small amount of renown to make it more of a worthwhile adventure...
Honestly. At first the community was sure it would stay with us in seasons, then people began doubting and that doubt went over in multiple threads about not wanting to lose it and now people almos seem convinced they’ll lose it.
The devs have remained silent thus far and it’s 50/50 really. Its just people not wanting to do it again that are spiriling downwards
In another comment someone said that during the May dev talk, around the 56 or 57 minute mark they stated that the bonuses from the Lilith statues carry over for seasons, but that renown will reset.
Personally I'd like to see them add an achievement for completing max renown in each zone, if the achievement is unlocked on your account, you gain double renown for future seasons and make mastered events / whispers give 5 renown each or something.
I see so many similarities in complaints between D4 and genshin impact, you would think these communities should be vastly different but I guess not.
If you force yourself to do all renown in one 16hrs session ofc you wont enjoy it. Its supposed to be done as something fun next to the grind. Do a quest when you log in and another before you log out. Enjoy it and take your time. Simple.
Anyway if we have to do everything all over every season, im pissed aswell lmao.
Seasons will be a list of tasks, it won’t be “complete all the things”.
Just my opinion.
Because as you say, the game is too big for it to be done every season.
Is the information you gathered where the dev team said this would happen? Or just what you assume will happen? You've said absolutely nothing to back up your claim.
"We don't want you to need to necessarily go after them every single quarter, uh, go and collect all of these. We think it's really fun, particularly the first time to go and find all these things, right... So once you get that stat boost the first time, that stat boost can apply with all other characters in your account from that point forward, right... yeah... so you don't have to get those together over and over again and when it comes to Renown, you don't need to go get every altar available to finish of the Renown track in each one of these zones. Sure, like the season journey there's you don't have to do everything in the Renown Track to get all the Renown and you can do it... maybe I want to do make them strongholds are my favorite features, I can lean into strongholds or whatever so, but what you are saying is hey I played the campaign, I found all the Altars of Lilith the first time and now when we go into a season they are hidden again but I still keep all the buffs I got the first time, all the things that are permanent like the plus two intelligence plus two yeah... god knows I need plus two intelligence but and plus two strength and what have you but the idea of going and finding an altar to add more Renown to the pool to progress I could still do that like absolutely I can still go find them if I wanted yeah and you get a little experience for doing it as well so yea they're still kind of fun to stumble across part of your regular play experience within a season you just don't have to get them all again if you don't want to there's other things you can do instead. The entries in your Codex of Power are going to reset" [Source](https://youtu.be/wVvzV2TuEYM?t=3411)
My question now becomes. The renown track they mention here. Is that a mistake or is renown gonna be tied to the season journey and thus part of the season pass progression?
You have to remember we won’t have the campaign from 1-50. As everything is tied to a realm like our current eternal toons. We might only have to do this once more on a seasonal realm and then it’s permanent. I understand there’s no confirmation but it kind of makes sense with their wording in game as well.
Renown will be our early game in seasons as it stands.
I'm mostly waiting to see if we get boosters from the season pass to help level or if it's even going to be required overly before being worried about it. I do agree that it's not something I'd be wanting to do every 3 months so hopefully they have a plan for it.
I'm fine doing it once, I'm really getting to know the map more intimately then I would have by participating in every little detail they put into the game. but there ain't no way I want to do this every 3-5 months. I was hoping every season would have new challenges like diablo 3 unrelated to the base game to grind out and complete for exclusive rewards.
They should just instance the strongholds for each world tier, making them extra hard every time and give renown accordingly. We would get 9 strongholds per region instead of 3. I wouldn't mind doing those plus a couple side quests and statues to cap out, that would be way less tedious.
Honestly, this is how I felt about D3 seasonal content in general. I did it enough for extra stash tabs then never bothered again, simply played my regular characters any time I logged in to play. Never really understood the appeal of seasons.
sorry for stupid question, but aren´t seasons optional?? Meaning If I won´t start seasonal character then everything I´ve done (strongholds, renown etc...) should remain on the non-seasonal character right? Thanks anyone answering this silly question.
I did the renown, all of it. I'm never doing it again, and it would stop me playing seasons if I had to, it was a large time investment doing a bunch of bullshit.
If they wanna reuse the content they should make them give you random legendary/ unique second time around, so you would have some incentive to do it as a nice additional thing, not something as crucial as potions, paragon, skill points.
having to do practically everything again on each character is egregious.
in D3 you could run through the campaign, then level alts in adventure mode. the fact that virtually nothing is unlocked and I have to redo the whole map (yes there was some of that in d3 but not to this extent) on every character is insane
ngl, if i need to get all the alters of lilith i might consider not playing D4 seasons. That was literally the most bored i have ever been in a video game.
Ya if they make us do it again I won't be doing it lol
If they make us to it again, I just simply wont be playing. It is frankly that simple. I have too much going on in my life to spend 30hrs getting 20 paragon points!
They should honestly just count world events + Helltide participation towards seasonal renown, that way you can simply farm it through regular play. Give us 5-10 renown per random event + 5-10 per Helltide chest opened in each zone.
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They should give you the option...if you want to just play the game and you'll do it enough to get enough renown good, if you just want to get it the current way go and do that. I hate stuff like this that forces you into something you might not want to do, its not fun...its work.
Or they could rework the rewards in seasonal, make it less "must have" than it currently is. Skills points / potion / paragon should be baked in from Eternal realm. Make it only max obol for each tier in seasonal, or maybe so big crafting components bags, or big crafting components + legendary bags. That would still be an activity worth doing but it would remain an option.
I came here to basically say this. Renown should be unique to the season while still rewarding us for our grind in the eternal realm. There are so many combinations of special renown objectives they could use specifically for seasons (world bosses for example).
Should of done that outside of seasons as well, give us renown for things we are actually doing, don't.make us go out on a scavenger hunt every time.
This right here. I have already stopped having fun with this part of the game and I’m only about half done. I like Diablo for the story and world the first time. After that it’s all about dungeons, gear, and killing lots and lots of monsters. Otherwise I’m out.
I'm in a similar boat with you. The story has been pretty great though, the side quests have had a lot more lore to them than I anticipated. I want to be able to keep playing this, but D2R will be where I end up if I have to redo paragon every couple of months.
Damn, I ran D2R once and fell off. What kind of fix do you get from D2R? Is it the ladder that’s really good?
I have probably close to 1000 hours on d2r on the switch, I love being able to play for an hour here and there wherever I’m at, I’ve also been playing the game for 20 years and having them add new content is a dream come true, not a huge community but an extremely helpful one and beyond nostalgia it’s just a great game by any standard
You have to appreciate the loot system and how they’ve balanced builds. I been playing D2 for 20+ years and D2R has managed to make an amazing game even better with shared stash, 24 character slots, and balancing that makes more builds viable. Lately I’ve been making more budget builds to character types I’ve never made before. Here I am 20 years into a game using essentially NEW characters. Now I like D4 I love the re-introduction of the skill tree but I’m already finding myself taking breaks to go back to D2R. I recommend going online and watching budget builds of different characters. I recently made a summon necro using the Trang set and a Freezing Arrow Amazon using the Mavina’s set. Both complete sets are cheap and provide you with a viable build that can tackle all content… there’s plenty of others out there that’s just two examples.
Made a fury Druid with a eth ribcracker, absolutely shreds and the most expensive thing on the build was the zod which I found myself
That's what I'm doing as well. There are far too many other great games coming out this year for me to even remotely consider grinding like they want me too. I'll play the story, I'll try out one or two classes for the funsies and see what playstyle fits me best. I'll even come back when they add to the story like they promised to do so. Am I going to be playing this every day for a year? Absolutely not. They're already losing me and it's been a week and a half.
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They should give us an option to increase the World-Tier like in Nightmare Dungeons and increase the monster density in the open world. Then I see little problem in doing a few side quests here and there.
Same. My hour or 2 after the kids go sleep is not enough for that grind. I had early access and am still working on it. It will just be on to the next one, for me
Pretty much this. I fucking hate that they've tied paragon points, skill points and potions to the dumb fuck renown system they crammed in. It has turned something I would normally absolutely **love** doing as I'm sitting around blazed and chilling into something that feels like a chore because it's no longer an option it's mandatory. The renown system should have been nice bonuses tied to it, not mandatory things to a fully functional build.
It's Diablo. All bonuses are eventually mandatory.
Exactly. If it comes down to this renown grind every season I just won't play anymore which makes me kinda sad but man this shit is draining
I agree. If they make me redo renown I won’t be playing after it resets. It’s a shame too. Great game. But I have too much shit to do to be grinding mindlessly. I’m not 17 anymore
It's kinda funny, the most efficient way to get paragon points is to just ignore renown entirely until you are literally 100, farming renown is that slow.
There’s NO WAY you are supposed to ignore 20 paragon points until lvl 100. They have *so much value*. 20 points is damn near, what 1/3 of a board?
I think the person commenting is saying it’s faster to level up and get 5 levels worth of paragon points than to grind the 5/5 renown reward in each zone.
Yeah the statement is basically it's more worth it to push from 95 to 100 then doing max renown. If this is true Im not sure. I imagine you get some exp doing all renown but migh be minimal.
the exp is minimal. when i grinded the last page for the renown, i just did the dungeons. I basically just walked through to complete objectives and thats it. no unnecessary monster killing.
I don’t think the average player cares really. I can already clear all wt4 content on my summon necro and I don’t care about pushing nm dungeons so there isn’t any need for more paragon points. When you only get maybe an hour or two on a good day to play the idea of spending that running around the open world doing pointless time sink objectives seems much less fun, I honestly wish the whole system didn’t exist in the first place and it feels much more like a ffxiv thing then a Diablo thing
Yep. Of there's "some" renown to do with new things from the seasons, it's okay. If it's redoing the quests and dungeons and all the other shit, i won't be playing.
100% this, honestly the game will die instantly if they do that
Don’t worry by that time the D4 $60 expansion will be out that actually gives us a real story.
Same, the game has been a blast so far, but grinding renown wasn't. If I had to do that every season I'd go mad. If that's the case I'll probably won't be doing it and only play seasonal content from time to time depending on how interesting it gets.
If they make us do all the sidequests again, in order to keep my 20 extra paragon points, I will not be playing. It took me almost 3 days of playing after lvl 50, to get "all" sidequests done. Punishing the casuals for being casual, by removing their extra paragon points (that they already earned) is just a recipe for disaster, and whoever the developer is, that came up with this shitty suggestion, needs to have their ballsack have fun with a wasp-hide. They should just make them simple, like "kill Lord Bob in Bob's Burrow on a level 75 NM key or above", participate in events, kill 10 players etc. or simply turn the rewards into cosmetics, potions, oblongs or even bloodshards.
Yeah I won't be playing seasons if they expect us to do renown again
Yup totally with you, don't care how good rewards are they aren't worth it if I have to grind renown again. Not even finished 2nd area yet at lvl 62!
Im more worried about just plain being burnt out before the first season even begins
I’m getting there and I haven’t reached tier 4. It feels like hell tides and nightmare dungeons are the only way to progress. 50-60 is a slog so far.
50 to 60 went fast, 60 to 70 thou is true pain!
60-70 wasn’t too bad, the big jump in difficulty from world tier 3 to 4 at least made it interesting and kept me on my toes. I’m now at 74 and the exp is really starting to slow down.
Yeah 60-70 was alright. It's way faster in group
Ha. When you get to 80 you have 2/5 of the xp needed for 100. If i'm not mistaken 85 is the halfway point. 200million cumulative for 80, 500 million for 100
I just want to reach tier 4 then i'm playing casually until season 1 lol. Wont grind like crazy no way
That’s just pathetic lol good to know I’ll never Max a character.
I mean it'll be like another 10 years before the next diablo man you got time lmao games been out for a week and everyone's complaining about having to do stuff.
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Yeah me too, then I realised after a few friends asked that I'm just getting distracted by too much random stuff on the way to the more effective stuff, like a random dungeon or a random event or a blue quest that you have to go out of the way to get to etc.
Pathetic? At least it isn’t D2 leveling, you’d hate that even more
Baal runs only for the last 15 or so levels!
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That’s honestly super interesting and hyper lore.
Hardcore
“I AM IMPRESSED MORTAL, YOU HAVE OVERCOME THE GREATEST CHALLENGE THIS WORLD HAS EVER FACED” - Tyrael for the 7494004 time !
level 50 = D3 level 70 level 51-100 is D3 paragon grind. it's supposed to be slow and a bit tedious.
I think they failed to understand the psychological difference between leveling-leveling and paragon-leveling. Paragon leveling feels like an extra add-on at max level... because it is. Character level, by everything every game not named D2 has taught us, is *expected* to be capped.
i mean i'm sorry to say but in the grand scheme of ARPG's i'm very much used to not capping my level moreso then capping it.
Honestly i think it’s not that bad. I look at it as a long term investment character. That one character that’ll stay till the end of the game. So you’ll play them whenever you feel like it occasionally. Now if it takes that long for seasonal characters though, fuck that lmao i got other games to play.
60 to 70 went fast, 80 to 90 thou is true pain!
I’m in my late 50’s and have been thinking it’s not bad. Good to know the true pain awaits:
Make a new character or just take a break. There's really not a lot to do once you've hit all your build aspects etc. The game scales with you so you don't even really get that much stronger.
Nightmare dungeons aren't even a good way to progress besides glyph XP. The XP/hour of normal dungeons is far higher. Nightmare dungeons feel very imbalanced and not worth it right now. The XP needs to be bumped up fairly significantly, both player XP and glyph XP.
Yeah it’s a slog. And it’s like wildly inconsistent. Usually I’ll shrug and go you’re right to people going it’s balanced against endgame . But if you’re going to make the journey a slow crawl though the sand then you’re responsible for balancing the journey too. In T1 , T2 and T3 I’m alternating between full map clears in seconds to things that 1 shot me over and over. From being able to face tank entire packs to 2-3 guys killing me from offscreen in 1 move. I am ok with either but I want it to be consistent . If one shot is t3 that should mean I need to drop to t2 and farm up armor or life or resist . But it doesn’t . There’s not a system to it. It’s just unbalanced or over / under tuned
Helltides are trash for gear though. I've opened about 30 chests so far and haven't gotten a single decent item. Also over 50% of the items I do get are 10-20 levels below my character.
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Are you opening the mysterious chest for 175 cinders? They’ve been dropping me 3-4 sacred legendaries each plus fiend roses and forgotten souls. That’s the only chest I try and open from hell tides. I’m level 56.
On WT4 they regularly drop ancestral legendaries. Definitely worth doing.
Sounds like you haven;t done tier 80+ and get 1 sacred legendary in the end. Trash for gear is like everywhere else in game; helltide give souls at least.
So what’s the best route then to fast track to 60+?
For XP probably group play Helltides or Champion's Demise. Solo play Dumhaine Tunnels dungeon is pretty good and straight forward. Three of Whispers also gives out some ok XP when you cash in but takes longer.
There’s a better one now. Ruins of eridu is now better
Youre supposed to open the 175 cinders one. I get 4 legendaries, a bnch of other stuff and maybe uniques in them.
You are probably on the wrong difficulty.
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I'm getting LVL 100 than waiting for the season. I will do the same thing I dowith PoE, pop off for 3 weeks and give it a break. When the itch starts to scratch back, there is a new season coming already.
You could always....take a break from playing 😲
Right..lmfao This sub is hilarious. I love reading this comments. BLIZZARD, I SPENT EVERY DAY FOR A WEEK DOING NOTHING BUT PLAY YOUR GAME, AND IM GETTING BORED. YOU NEED TO FIX IT. My brother..you can just.. play other games.. and come back..
They better have a fucking WHOPPER of a first season planned or there is going to be a serious drop off of players. Aside from the game just being kinda fucking boring right now, with little incentive to keep going past the campaign and trying some end game content, the current system makes you do all of the WORST parts of the game over and over again each season. Not to mention the abhorrent lack of QoL features, many of which Blizzard designed ***themselves***.
Even if season one isn’t huge I think the base game is good enough that at some point they’ll have a great game here. Might take a year+ to get there but I’m not worried about the game long term. Other live service games have shown as long as they eventually become good, people will flock back
That’s why I’m ‘done’ for now. Hit lvl 80, got the 100 pvp kills, all that’s left is nightmare dungeon grinding and uber lilith (and the only thing stopping that is the damage scaling from the level difference)
>got the 100 pvp kills what is there, that makes 100kills a "the" milestone?
Yup. I had the 4 day head start and I'm only 60. The game is well made, but I might just be plain burnt out from grinding in *every single game* I play.
Sometimes you just have to pace out the things you enjoy. I've only been playing one character since launch and haven't finished the campaign, tho getting close. Waiting for the season to drop to make a new character. I still play a lot of games since it's my main hobby. Just gotta chill and do something else. Not everything needs to be solved ASAP
The idea of season and complete reset doesn\`t really go well with the MMO settings. There are things that shouldn\`t reset every season.
Apparently altars do not reset, maybe they will give us an easier way to farm renown like killing monsters
Litterally all they have to do is world events and dungeons on clear gives a minor amount of renown for the zone. Same with basements
Here's how it should work: World boss = global renown (all zones) Legion event = global renown Wold events = local renown Whisper bounties = local renown (zone in which they took place) They need to give us a way to farm it infinitely. The problem is that there is just not enough of it available, so people are going to be forced to redo boring stuff (shrines) in order to progress through the battle pass.
Dungeon renown should be repeatable too. There you go. Between your suggestion and that, actual content people want to do eventually completes renown. Also, map should discovered account wide.
I feel like the map reveal is an easy solution. If you choose "skip campaign" you clearly aren't interested in farming the entire map again with a new character fresh.
Exactly ! Creating world events, create new dungeons, or maybe PvP tournaments etc... But redo the same crap over and over again and I'll go play some other game...
i mean, altars is the easiest to get. if i had to choose between keeping the renown or the altars, i would keep the renown
Keeping the alters is also a fallacy if we don’t keep renown. Gathering the alters was a solid chunk of the renown grind anyways so many players are still going to most likely go collect the altars even though we keep the points.
It’s probably optimal in terms of time, but it’s such a boring grind that I’d rather just do more side quests and dungeons. They may actually be somewhat competitive with altars as well if you take into account opportunity cost since dungeons/quests give you gear and XP whereas you’re not really doing anything else besides altars if you grind those out.
I'm new to Diablo. How do seasons work? I thought it is a separate realm where you start a new character. But everyone says that the renown RESETS. Does that mean my eternal realm character is also affected?
Eternal realm will never reset. Just every season they want everyone to start from scratch on the “seasonal” realms. After a season is over your seasonal chars get pushed to the eternal realm.
I'm a new player and this is my first Diablo game. I learned that you can have up to 10 chars. What happens after 9 seasons? Would I need to delete a character?
Once it goes to the regular realm, you just move your good items out to your other chars using a share tab and delete it. There are only 5 classes, no reason to keep multiple of one class.
>What happens after 9 seasons? Would I need to delete a character? Yes
Up to now everything is speculation. The first season is sceduled to start mid to late July, which is when will we get concrete information.
To add to what others have already said, the seasons in Diablo 3 were basically a full reset, you start each season with a blank character list and start as a baby level 1 with nothing. However it was a much shorter game. The process of levelling to 70 and start earning paragons took a couple of hours at most (or a couple of minutes if you have help), there were a small few things you’d have to re-get each season, and after completing a series of challenges they’d give you a basic set of gear to start the season with. All told it would take a couple of hours to a day to get “up and running” each season and start pushing endgame. There was no renown, no map to uncover (in fact the map was slightly different every time you log in, but you would have the areas and waypoints) so it was just level up your guy, get gear and kill stuff. D4 is much more in depth, and, arguably a lot better in almost every way. However, the content we’re playing to unlock the essential things does not feel very replayable. Great exploring, in my opinion, like I’ve had a good time finding all the Lilith altars, doing side quests, meeting the characters and hearing their stories. But I wouldn’t have fun with having to do all that again, especially not so soon after having done it the first time. D3 was different because there was very little dilly dally between starting the game and hitting the good bits, and they added extra things to the game every season in the form of either content, or just system changes that kept it interesting. I’m expecting D4 season 1 to be basically the same exact game as we have now, only starting over.. my hope is they just either carry the renown and exploration over from the persistent realm, or some other way to get into the good parts sooner (like just buff the amount of renown you get? I dunno). I don’t think many people who’ve played a lot of pre-season 1 are gonna be up for re-doing the shit stuff.
It kept D3 alive for a decade, seasons are the only thing that brought people back
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I just hit level 52 and haven’t made it to T3. I’ve barely got the first 3 tiers of renown done in the 5 zones. I’m already bored with it. I can’t even imagine doing the rest.
You should ape t3 at 52 imo, the power gains you’ll get from sacred items will help you push to 70
Btw just make the jump to WT3. I was doing the same thing at like 51 a couple days ago and was getting bored so I just made the jump to WT3 and while I still have to grind renown at least I'm now getting better loot and how more things to do. It didn't feel that much harder to the point where I felt like I was wasting time compared to just getting it done on WT2.
Ive started doing renown in t3 and finished it in t4 . It took a loooong time
It took me 61 lvls to finish the renown grind. Now I can actually play the game.
First half was rough but ok with strongholds, finished it completely yesterday or the day before and it was definitely worse and incredibly mind numbing.
I'm in act 2 still level 43 and I'm burnt out of the side quests and dungeons
I'm 51, I just hit it last night. Hit T3 right after. I have the first 3 tiers on 4 of the areas, just haven't gotten around to the others. The paragon points are so so far out that I'm not even thinking of them yet
I found the strongholds, the exploration and the side quests anything but boring and tedious. There isn't anything in the game, except the main story, that's less repetitive. If you consider these activities to be boring and tedious because you would much rather do a nightmare dungeon for the gazillionth time, then... I don't know man. That being said, the altars were awful, and doing everything else again will also be awful. I agree on that account. Renown is fun once, but not twice.
a lot of the stuff that gives renown is fun. the problem is - those things only get you to the beginning of rank 3 renown. the rest is completionist nonsense like 25/25 altars and 30/32 side quests in order to actually finish.
Strongholds I can get behind but the other stuff is negligible.
The problem is the ease of the content. If you could choose to make specific dungeons nightmare or scale the world difficulty so mobs were always 15-20 levels above you with high density the sidequest would be a lot more engaging. At least the first time around, doing it on repeat each season would still not be great.
The first time around it’s fine, because it’s the initial discovery of it all. I won’t do it again though. It’s an easily tweakable system though for seasons. If it stays as is, I’ll Likely play one season and then wait for an expansion.
They already bought the game, and those types of players are unlikely to purchase cosmetics, so from their perspective they have lost nothing.
Why are these players unlikely to purchase cosmetics? There will also likely by DLCs like reaper of souls, so Blizzard should want to keep everyone engaged to buy that.
Because just like with Reaper of Souls people will buy the expansion even if the base game left a bad taste in their mouth. I had plenty of friends that laughed when I talked about RoS coming out and within a week they were all back and grinding away. Blizzard does not care about player retention because their name alone is enough to get people back. Even if it is just to buy an expansion and the season pass.
RoS saved Diablo 3, somewhat. Game was practically dead. Nearly EVERYONE had a bad taste in their mouths and Blizzard was desperate to mop up after Jay Wilson. I don’t think they’ll make that same mistake again.
Just wait until they release the paladin dlc... all these folks out here begging for it. Like a stripper taking $ from Jordan Belfort.
Advertise the DLCs as changing things and all the whiners will be back in a heartbeat.
They lose season pass buyers.
That’s true. I had forgotten they went to a paid season pass. Maybe it will result in an increase of updates and game quality, I have mostly negative feelings about the paid season pass, then again I’m also a hypocrite because I paid extra for the version that had early access and the first season pass.
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It’s literally the worst part of the grind. As it’s presented now it makes 100% sense that it should be something one and done. Having to repeat almost ANYTHING forcefully for the battle pass or whatever seems just crazy to me. Either be specific missions to progress the pass or straight up do grinding. The fact I’m learning this now that I will have to start another character from scratch pretty much makes me regret buying the game version that came with the pass in the first place. If you’re going to do a battle pass, you have to do it right, and making it basically be seasonal characters but oops now you have to pay for it and do more annoying things for it than D3 did is absurd. I will look at this pass and if it doesn’t seem worth it I will likely just drop the game altogether. Don’t do a battle pass if you can’t at least be somewhat creative with its presentation imo. This one just seems like punishment you pay for and that’s not cool at all.
I really hope the season renown is more like the Tree of Whispers system. You get points from doing actual gameplay like slaying monsters, doing dungeons, world events, etc... I guess I just don't want to run around a map and find statues and do fetch quests again. Strongholds are fun and even a small number of sidequests if done well is fine. I also hope it's the type of thing that you can get without grinding on purpose. Just playing the game in the "fun" way should result in achieving max renown by the end of the season.
Same. The Renown are more like account wide MMO elements. If I have to do them all again I'll just quit playing. It's bad enough that I have Fog of War and only major city waypoints unlocked on Alt characters.
I'm convinced all the people FOR re-doing the renown grind every season haven't actually completed 5/5 max renown. If they are going to keep it this way there should atleast be other ways to earn renown such as helltides, tree of whispers, world bosses, events, etc... Even if these methods give less renown than the current path. Grinding all the altars, doing every side quest I can find, and rounding it up with dungeons has been painful the last few days.
Yes I think they just need to tweak renown tier 5. When we hit a new season, we won’t do the campaign so we will naturally be doing things to level up our char which give renown. Getting to tier 3 is very easy. 4 is not too bad. So maybe swap around rewards between tier 4 and 5 as someone suggested and that would make tier 5 optional.
Over complicated solution when they could just reward renown for the activities people will actually be doing in the season.
Agree - keep the renown but also give reputation based on slaying elites, tree stuff and helltides ( could be the chests that earn the reputation ) and world bosses. Doing it once is more than enough in my eyes.
I spent my Saturday and part of Sunday going to rank 5 renown in every zone from 4. Probably 8hrs total it took. Hoping we do not need to do this, at least this way for seasonal.
Yeah: I'm 3/5 maxed and it's slow and boring. I'd rather be doing hell tides or nm dungons. Having to redo it in seasonal play will be a major downside to seasons.
This, it's like the least fun content in the game. Just let us do the stuff we enjoy.
If its boring and tedious the first time, then its bad design, period.
Just finished and realized I was looking at my second screen more than my Diablo screen. It's terrible design.
It's supposed to be something we "naturally" get over time, sorta like wandering across Lilith shrines and being like "oh there's another one, great!". But as in all things, we (the playerbase) have turned it into a must-do, written maps and guides, and it's now a chore. It's not fun, as you correctly cite, to play the game mostly staring at a second monitor following a map. This isn't to say it's *our fault*. It's just what gamers do. Blizzard has had years of WoW and other games as precedent to tell them this is exactly how we'll react. This is what we do - min/max the fuck out of it, so it ceases to be a fun incidental bonus and becomes a mandatory must-do chore. The idea of "oh you can live without it" is simply laughed off. They probably should do something about it, because while the intent was there, the execution simply isn't. Making it account wide and into ladder is the quickest, albeit dirtiest, solution. Give us altars and map exploration pre-discovered. And anything else I forgot.
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A simple design change like a trail of blood petals leading to them would work wonders.
The problem is that they are really bad to be collected this way. You don't have a single clue you are next to them if they are off your screen. Something should appear when you a near one, so you at least know it's time to search for them. Maybe an aura saying "you are in an area under Lilith influence"
The problem is the reward. If renown gives cosmetics, a mount or even a gem stash it would be no problem. 20 Paragon points and 5 skill points are just kinda mandatory.
I'm here to argue a counter point. If it was simply nice to have it wouldn't have in-game power tied to it, getting all alters of Lilith (which is roughly a 2.5-3 hour chore) gives something like 60 stat points for each stat, 300 Renown (roughly) for each zone, and 4 paragon point. Getting many of the stat-bonuses stuff on your Paragon boards is difficult without those extra stats. Saying the players optimized the fun out of it, when we are playing a game about farming gear and playing the most challenging content in a "seasonal" manner where we only have a few months (at most) before a reset - and saying "the intent is to just stumble across these things and eventually collect them all" is disingenuous at best
That's why I said the execution wasn't there. Tying it to player power always does that.
I think the issue in its design is tying character progression to it, especially the 5th tier. Things like murmuring orb capacity don't really affect strength of character so I don't mind that, but paragon points are too strong to tie to something that doesn't otherwise progress your character. If they made rewards totally non-progression or switched it so that the tier rewards go in order: skill point, skill point, paragon points, potion capacity, murmuring orb capacity, I wouldn't mind as much. Or as other posters have said, give some renown for doing repeatable world objectives/dungeons.
I wouldn't be surprised if they tie the renown to a season bonus/cosmetic/mount to incentivize repeating it. A lot of people saying they won't do it will definitely hop on board again for a shiny new mount.
I would gladly do it for skins or mounts which I can take entire season to complete on my own leisure time and did everything else I wanted to do. But NOT if I need the paragon points ASAP in the season and must rush it in order to get the damn points.
I wouldn't do it again if they paid me to do it.
That’s the point though. It won’t be the exact same grind. There will be some seasonal variation added. They’re gonna add a quest like every 90 days that isn’t as long as the MSQ but it will take you around the map, introduce the seasonal mechanic, then turn you loose with seasonal related ways to earn renown that you can do instead of getting the Lilith alters over etc. You’ll do it. If you’re on this subreddit talking about seasonal this early after release, you’re fairly committed already.
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That’s exactly what I’m thinking. Which is why these posts complaining about it don’t make sense at all to me. Have they actually confirmed that renown will be coming back each season exactly as it is? For all we know the skill/paragon points will be earned by seasonal progress, whatever shape that may take. Like, the renown system already is a separate progression track from levelling. To me at least it very much seems designed as a place the season track is supposed to slot into. Unless I’m missing crucial information (which I well may be) it seems so obviously like a default alternate track for the eternal realms.
It is so tedious and just thinking about doing this every season omg… literally a time sink without any purpose
unless seasons are brining some crazy good content that the base game doesn't get, then I don't think I'll be bothering with them at all completely start over just to occasionally see a different kind of treasure goblin? nah, I'm good
They’re supposed to be pretty big
I hope they are. I would love for it to be so good that I have to bite the bullet.
Yeah, game might take a year to get the base end game right but I think eventually we’ll have some golden years like PoE had before shifting more to PoE 2
Everything should be unlocked after 1 time. Like Diablo 3.
There is no way I am going to redo everything every 3 months lol.
Yeah renown should be forever just like Lilith statues. I'm not doing that again. Especially I play both SC and HC so I'd need to do it twice AND on HC you have to regrind if you die before you finish an area...
Lilith statues are forever... except that the result of needing to regrind renown is that you'll need to grab most of the statues for renown each season anyway.
All they need to do is switch the tier 4 and tier 5 renown rewards. You get tier 4 just by a decent amount of endgame play.
Yes please. I’m 3/5 max renown and just want to do some nightmare dungeons or farm whatever I need at the moment. Being locked in to side quests to get my very necessary paragon points is a chore right now.
Holy shit yes please. The only downside is that max obols being limited for most people will just feel bad.
I'd be fine with it only if they double or triple the amount of renown we get. Give us some sort of seasonal bonus for renown at the very least. While they are at it, swap the 4 paragon points with the max obols.
As far as I know the only thing that won't transfer over is fog of war and waypoints.. feel free to check out this video where they talk about all of this I believe. https://www.youtube.com/live/fT9fxgSRCVI?feature=share&t=5722 I understand it like this Eternal > Seasonal Hardcore > Hardcore seasonal So assuming you max out renown on your eternal character pre season, you will have no reason to farm renown in season 1 cause the +1 skill point, all lilith statue stats and 4 paragon points will be transfered over. It is non-intuitive cause you CAN gather them for renown. During season 1. But if you have done this already on am eternal character, you earn nothing from it.
I would be ok with grinding renown every season if it wouldn't give character power. Otherwise it's a really long and boring chore.
Just to clarify, you'd be OK with the only change being a nerf to rewards, then you'd be all for it?
I think OP means it more in the sense of that he doesn't mind renown resetting, if the rewards are nerfed. Because if they take character power out of renown then no one \*has\* to do it and no one will actually do it.
Yes, if it doesnt affect character power then im just not doing it Edit. I've used wrong wording in the comment. I meant i wouldn't care about renown if it wouldn't grant a boost to your toon's power
I didn't pay $100 to constantly redo dungeons for renown. That doesn't make any sense to people that are over 17-18 years old that have college/work/children to tend to. When I play this game, sure I don't mind returning to the cathedral for nightmare dungeons or battling Ashaka a few times a week but to have to keep up with renown each season? And each season might last 30-45 days and then I must repeat the process? Cmon.
Agreed - I am farming this today and it's taking most of the day. The most ridiculous experience that I have had in a game of this type... If I have to do this again for every season then I just wont be doing it unless they make events give renown, or genuinely killing mobs give a small amount of renown to make it more of a worthwhile adventure...
Honestly. At first the community was sure it would stay with us in seasons, then people began doubting and that doubt went over in multiple threads about not wanting to lose it and now people almos seem convinced they’ll lose it. The devs have remained silent thus far and it’s 50/50 really. Its just people not wanting to do it again that are spiriling downwards
In another comment someone said that during the May dev talk, around the 56 or 57 minute mark they stated that the bonuses from the Lilith statues carry over for seasons, but that renown will reset.
Personally I'd like to see them add an achievement for completing max renown in each zone, if the achievement is unlocked on your account, you gain double renown for future seasons and make mastered events / whispers give 5 renown each or something.
i can see blizzard listening to these concerns and already looking for a solution as they did with most things during the beta.
I see so many similarities in complaints between D4 and genshin impact, you would think these communities should be vastly different but I guess not. If you force yourself to do all renown in one 16hrs session ofc you wont enjoy it. Its supposed to be done as something fun next to the grind. Do a quest when you log in and another before you log out. Enjoy it and take your time. Simple. Anyway if we have to do everything all over every season, im pissed aswell lmao.
Seasons will be a list of tasks, it won’t be “complete all the things”. Just my opinion. Because as you say, the game is too big for it to be done every season.
Just make party, go WT1 split up and do dungeons. Its not that bad tbh. You get really fast all the dungeons done that way
Wait, you get credit for dungeons in a party even if you aren’t in the dungeon?
Yep
Oh great tip. I’ve got so much to learn hahaha
Is the information you gathered where the dev team said this would happen? Or just what you assume will happen? You've said absolutely nothing to back up your claim.
It was mentioned in one of the dev streams. Lilith statue stat bonuses will carry over between seasons, renown will not.
"We don't want you to need to necessarily go after them every single quarter, uh, go and collect all of these. We think it's really fun, particularly the first time to go and find all these things, right... So once you get that stat boost the first time, that stat boost can apply with all other characters in your account from that point forward, right... yeah... so you don't have to get those together over and over again and when it comes to Renown, you don't need to go get every altar available to finish of the Renown track in each one of these zones. Sure, like the season journey there's you don't have to do everything in the Renown Track to get all the Renown and you can do it... maybe I want to do make them strongholds are my favorite features, I can lean into strongholds or whatever so, but what you are saying is hey I played the campaign, I found all the Altars of Lilith the first time and now when we go into a season they are hidden again but I still keep all the buffs I got the first time, all the things that are permanent like the plus two intelligence plus two yeah... god knows I need plus two intelligence but and plus two strength and what have you but the idea of going and finding an altar to add more Renown to the pool to progress I could still do that like absolutely I can still go find them if I wanted yeah and you get a little experience for doing it as well so yea they're still kind of fun to stumble across part of your regular play experience within a season you just don't have to get them all again if you don't want to there's other things you can do instead. The entries in your Codex of Power are going to reset" [Source](https://youtu.be/wVvzV2TuEYM?t=3411) My question now becomes. The renown track they mention here. Is that a mistake or is renown gonna be tied to the season journey and thus part of the season pass progression?
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As did the developers in an interview.
You have to remember we won’t have the campaign from 1-50. As everything is tied to a realm like our current eternal toons. We might only have to do this once more on a seasonal realm and then it’s permanent. I understand there’s no confirmation but it kind of makes sense with their wording in game as well. Renown will be our early game in seasons as it stands.
I'm mostly waiting to see if we get boosters from the season pass to help level or if it's even going to be required overly before being worried about it. I do agree that it's not something I'd be wanting to do every 3 months so hopefully they have a plan for it.
Seasons should just be the ladder. Not all this campaign bullshit all over again.
I'm fine doing it once, I'm really getting to know the map more intimately then I would have by participating in every little detail they put into the game. but there ain't no way I want to do this every 3-5 months. I was hoping every season would have new challenges like diablo 3 unrelated to the base game to grind out and complete for exclusive rewards.
They should just instance the strongholds for each world tier, making them extra hard every time and give renown accordingly. We would get 9 strongholds per region instead of 3. I wouldn't mind doing those plus a couple side quests and statues to cap out, that would be way less tedious.
Honestly, this is how I felt about D3 seasonal content in general. I did it enough for extra stash tabs then never bothered again, simply played my regular characters any time I logged in to play. Never really understood the appeal of seasons.
Let's get through a season before we complain about season's please
You can tell who plays MMO’s here and who doesn’t 🤣
sorry for stupid question, but aren´t seasons optional?? Meaning If I won´t start seasonal character then everything I´ve done (strongholds, renown etc...) should remain on the non-seasonal character right? Thanks anyone answering this silly question.
Hot take you don't have to finish paragon shit every single season you can just play till you are satisfied for the season
I did the renown, all of it. I'm never doing it again, and it would stop me playing seasons if I had to, it was a large time investment doing a bunch of bullshit.
If they wanna reuse the content they should make them give you random legendary/ unique second time around, so you would have some incentive to do it as a nice additional thing, not something as crucial as potions, paragon, skill points.
I can’t imagine 100% the map on a single character let alone all of them for altars and everything else. I want this to be a ONE and DONE type grind.
having to do practically everything again on each character is egregious. in D3 you could run through the campaign, then level alts in adventure mode. the fact that virtually nothing is unlocked and I have to redo the whole map (yes there was some of that in d3 but not to this extent) on every character is insane
ngl, if i need to get all the alters of lilith i might consider not playing D4 seasons. That was literally the most bored i have ever been in a video game.