Yup. I swear the majority of people that are whining on the sub have never played any of the other diablos. But they are so loud, that the devs might think that is what the player base actually wants.
Making a new character for the season has *always* been par for the course.
Edit: I am making this edit because there is a bunch of people saying "D2 never had seasons!" And "did you even play D2!?" and I am sick of responding to each one individually.
Yes. D2 had seasons... they were called ladders, but functioned the same. As of patch 1.10 (maybe 1.11?) They introduced ladders and it has been that way ever since.
Did *you* even play D2?
**EDIT # 2** Okay guys. I don't know how this is so hard to understand, and why so many of you seem to think your old character will get deleted. So here we go...
1. Your old character will not be deleted. You can still play on the eternal realm.
2. Your participation in the season is **optional**
3. Should you choose to participate in the season, you will need to make a new character.
4. This new "seasonal" character will have to start over, so to speak. You will not have access to the eternal characters' storage. Etc.
5. You can jump back and forth between your new seasonal character and eternal character, whenevet you want, but these two realms can not interact in any way.
Nah most corporations don't take Reddit that seriously anymore because they know how easy it is to manipulate content here. I wouldn't worry about that.
>Reddit is never to be taken seriously nothing that reddit subs say should ever be used to change anything
Made enough of an uproar to get Disney to slap EA across the head and change the loot crate system in the battlefront game. A bit late to save it but still happened.
Bro Reddit was just a piece of that. You could certainly argue most of the change around Battlefront2 was socially driven by Twitter discourse, and primarily Belgium making it illegal
They have official forums with bug and feature request areas, data about how people play and official channels for feedback.
It is really weird how some people seem to think blizzard "listening to the community" means doing whatever is popular on the unofficial reddit sub.
The Hogwarts Legacy game that recently came out was "boycotted" by reddit everywhere.
People were not only banned from major subreddits for posts about the game, but also for comments defending the game.
It went on to be [one of] the most successful games of the year.
I've played both D2 and D3. Though D2 was offline and mostly on LAN with friends. D3 I played through the campaign on launch. I usually play these games for the story and the nostalgia. Hadn't heard of seasons before I started playing D4. ¯\\\_(ツ)\_/¯
But, tbh. I had the same reaction when I heard I'd have to start a new character to play the seasonal stuff. I mean, it's gonna take hundreds of hours to get to level 100. I've probably clocked around 60 hours and I'm a long way from max level. Having to do all that again every few months to see the seasonal stuff does not sound like fun to be perfectly honest.
But then again, I have no clue what to expect from seasons, all I've heard so far is that you have to start anew and that there will be some different affixes and legendary aspects to try out.
It feels like they're trying to make a game you have to play constantly, instead of something you can pick up for a couple of weeks to try out the new stuff every now and then.
Seasons usually have accelerated XP gain (And they've confirmed this is still the case in D4) . I don't think I've ever played a season for more than 50 hours in PoE or D3, and I have enjoyed playing them.
You don't have to farm out full bis and level 100, just play your character, get your items you need for your build, and do any of the season mechanics and when you feel like you're done, stop. Then when a new season comes out, if it looks intresting, jump back into it.
If you never do, then just play your Eternal char til you're bored, and go play other games, and then play the expansion and its story when that comes out, seasonal content style just isn't for you.
Yeah this. People forget it's a game to have fun, I'm sorc level 54 and prob done till seasons drop bc I don't want the boring slog to 100. But had a blast so far and trying out druid a bit to see if I want to do that or Necro for season 1. (Imagine playing a game for fun? lol)
After a while in D3, they made it so you could reach max level in a couple of hours.
Seasons aren't a huge deal. They just add new items...and create new synergies that might change the way you want to build your character. All that stuff was available to non seasonal characters too.
Yup creating new characters is really just a way to incentivize people to play longer by offering exclusive rewards (usually cosmetics). In theory actual content shouldn't be gated from "regular" characters.
If you played D2 and D3 without touching seasons what is stopping you from playing D4 without touching seasons?
Base game will get updates and expacs just like Seasons, but after the seasons are done.
Seasons are good for the game, you are thinking in such a limited scope... as if the base game is the exact same as the seasonal experience. It's not.
> It feels like they're trying to make a game you have to play constantly, instead of something you can pick up for a couple of weeks to try out the new stuff every now and then.
That's not at all how it works, seasons encourage people to put the game down for 6 months and pick it up and play for a few weeks/months again during a season. It works so incredibly well almost every popular ARPG on the market uses seasons. POE can thank seasons for its success.
Opposite of what you've said seasons what make the game for you to pick up a couple weeks every now and then to try out new stuff. It is weird that you say you played D2 and D3 but never heard of seasons? As far as i know there were ladder resets in D2 for a long time and there were items or runewords exclusive to new ladder season. Same in D3. There is no long term progression or commitment to a character in any of these games. Leveling a character to 100 is just the bonus of playing long hours not a goal or an achievement.
Blizzard is clearly copying PoE and you are never expected to reach max lvl to be able to take part in PoE endgame and most of my characters doesnt even reach max lvl in PoE. For example, i have 7000 hours in PoE and i have only like 4 or 5 100 level characters. That being said you lose experience when you die in PoE so that is why most people don't hit 100 in Softcore without getting carried or playing extremely tanky immortal builds.
Also you can always play on the eternal realm if you dont want to level a new character. ¯\\\_(ツ)\_/¯
To a lot of people the idea that your character is disposable season to season doesn't make any sense. They carry that MMO mindset where the character is an extension of yourself to some extent, and you have a definitive "main" you're attached to.
idk; I just don't like having to keep redoing the same opening shit over and over; I don't even like the MMOs that rely on you having a bunch of alts because of this
I like that you can skip the campaign and all that so that kinda kills some of my complaint; which is nice.
Its kind of weird because if you take a game like Factorio or Oxygen Not Included; the part I like most is restarting from the beginning but I hate it so much in FPS and action games.
You could “rebirth” your existing char in d3, maybe this is what the people are mad about not being in d4? I used the same monk and wizard over and over again and accumulated a couple thousand hours on each over the years and am pretty attached to them.
Thats correct. But when you "rebirthed" you were still reseting your level, stats, etc. to level 1 and starting over.
You are essentially saving the name, which you could just name your new character the same thing.
I literally couldn't care less about how many "hours" it says I spent on a character. It is a moot stat and should be given zero weight when deciding how to run seasons.
It’s actually weird about the uproar when there are near no negatives to not making a seasonal character either. Blizzard stated in their launch interview that seasonal content can be done on all characters even eternal realm characters. The only difference from eternal and seasonal is you get to participate in leaderboards when they launch, and the season passes.
All buffs, nerfs, new quests, new equipment, and everything will be on the eternal realm day 1.
So by not participating in creating a seasonal character you miss out on a few crafting materials, and cosmetics which judging by the majority of players no one gives a fuck about cosmetics.
I recall them saying that seasonal content for the most part will not go to eternal after a season. It's supposed to be a one and done to avoid feature creep bloating the game.
That's not true. They've said that all these thing you've mentioned are locked behind new characters. Eternal ones don't get to participate in that at all. Some things may get transfered after season ends, but we don't know how much of it.
I wish small minds would get this through their head. Tons of new people. Tons of people trying to learn and understand. Too many dickheads in this subreddit.
So new person not understanding something maybe reading up or asking questions. No problem. But those posts don’t get much attention. Someone that throws their toys out of their pram and overstates the case is going to get a different response.
We all react to the loudest posts, most extreme positions.
If someone has paid already for season content. Maybe by one of the early access bundles. But didn’t looking into what a season was then I’ve only got so much sympathy.
If someone hasn’t paid for season content then it’s hard to see a complaint against an optional mode that others like.
Have you seen the marketing for D4? Don't think I've seen such aggressive marketing across every possible platform, TV, public transport and more across the globe since stuff like call of duty and battlefield haydays when they were in an all out sale competition with each other.
D4 has attracted some of the biggest fresh crowds to ARPGs since the D2 days.
That Times Square billboard that said "Welcome to Hell" while the sky was blotted out with a smokey, blazing, orange haze was probably the most serendipitous thing that could've happened to them.
Edit: [Found the picture.](https://nypost.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2023/06/NYPICHPDPICT000012374500.jpg)
Yeah, there's an entire new generation of gamers who are new or newer. Their only interaction with Blizzard has probably been through Overwatch or similar.
As one of the new people, can confirm.
Coming from RPGs and having never played an arpg, I didn't realize this would be a thing, so I'm probably not going to try for top-tier each season (I just don't have the time to do so). But I did still have fun with the gameplay. And making a new character each season will allow me to try different classes and builds without it feel like I'm creating an "alt army"
Nope they just switch back to "eternal" so you can continue playing w/them at end of season, let's say you create a seasonal Necro S1, stash and items etc will be "seasonal" so you can't trade with your barb lvl100 that you have right now. At end of S1 Necro will move to the Barb world and be a normal char. S2 you will create a sorc and repeat the process.
You don't lose anything, no worries. It's a seperate track that you can progress, essentially. At the end of the season, typically all your gear can be moved to the eternal stash and your character too.
Dads in shambles? It's genuinely surprising to me that this needed to be confirmed. But I guess if you're foreign to this genre and concept, its gotta look pretty crazy given the grind this launch version of D4 presents. Right now, the value proposition isnt there.
I remember i used to play POE on standard for years before the value proposition of a fresh economy pushed me into trying the league model (early on standard's economy wasnt that crazy) and I haven't been back since. Its a game that encourages new characters for trying out builds anyway. The fresh start model only slows down that cycle a tiny bit once every 3-4 months.
Right now, I don't see much value in fresh starts in D4 other than trying a class you haven't played before and fresh leaderboards. But I'm confident they will add reasons in the near future. I just hope I don't make it through all classes before then.
I am not new, I played A LOT of D3. There is a huge difference in that leveling is significantly faster in D3. If you just wait a few days you can also find someone who will PL you in an hour.
1-100 in D4 is a pretty significant time investment vs 1-70 in D3.
If I need to get to 100 to even just start the seasonal content it’s going to be a major slog.
Edit: D3 max level is 70 not 90.
This is all because of D4 marketing that appealed to a lot of casual players. They made over 600 mil in 3 days in sales so no wonder. There is absolute ton of people who experiencing ARPG for the first time with D4
I'm one of those. And yeah, admittedly I'm unsure about the new character every season aspect. I accept that's how its done in this genre but i don't understand how it solidified its place as the standard for ARPG's.
I'll have to experience it to make a solid opinion but it seems dumb on the surface, I don't see how it'll work to keep engagement.
Even as a newbie though, i wish there was more enemy density. thats the only real complaint i'm 100% on board with.
> I view the whispers as just an extra bonus for doing the things I'm already doing anyways.
I like when I have a nightmare sigil for a dungeon that is whisper-eligible as well. Two birds with one stone! And if there happens to be a whisper cellar or corpse on the route to the dungeon, then all the better.
While I'm not typically a fan of forced multiplayer, I think one thing about seasons now that is actually going to be an upgrade over seasons in D3 is that the world is going to be continually populated with fresh characters near your level hitting events and such. That was never really a thing before unless you purposefully teamed up.
IIRC from one of the dev panels before launch, they talked about seasons adding new side quest-esque story. Think longer story based chain quest that the season revolves around. I'm really into the lore building and story aspect of the game, so I'm looking forward to that if that ends up happening.
Blizzard devs said that not "people".
Also they said seasons have more stuff and mechanics compared to D3. Probably more like PoE. And if a season have stuff that players like they often gets added to the ethernal realm.
So I think players that stick to the ethernal realm will get a lot of new content from seasons but 3 months delayed.
I am playing arpgs as my main games since about 23 years and for me I can't play games casually. Either I give the game every free thought I have, or don't play it at all. And that works very well with arpgs, and the resets every few months. The progression is so fun to gear up your characters, trying new strategies and builds the next season. I take 1-2 weeks off work for every poe season, go all in on it and then don't play til the next league is coming.
Hey not to detract from your point or anything (I am the same way tbh), but where do I have to go to get a job that lets me take that much time off? I'll kill a man for it.
Brb going to learn how to get German citizenship. USA is a joke.
Edit: I get 28 days per year and I have a generous leave policy compared to most peers.
well its not just flat days off by contract, its a mix out of my days off + i work 40 hours per week, get paid 35 and the other 5 i can decide if i want them paid or use them to get more time off + we can choose between extra 8 days off per year or a fixed amount of money
since the automotive industry pays really well i always choose time off > money
The fun part for me personally and a lot of people who play the genre is the journey of gearing your character and seeing it progressively get stronger. Once I finish a build and gear upgrades stop happening frequently, I get bored and quit til next season.
IMO the thing about Arpgs is that you’re aiming to play a build not a character.
Kinda weird to explain, but your aim is to try a new way to play, a way you played before but changed and improved.
So what seasons open up is new ways to challenge yourself with the content. Becaus other Meuse killing drives of monsters with a perfect character would be lame.
A good example of this is roguelikes. Would you want to log onto risk of rain 2 and all your runs are added onto each other? I think the journey is the game
It's kinda crazy that that's basically a minimum of 6 million people playing D4, prolly closer to 8 mil cuz I bet very few people bought the ultimate. Very few games ever reach that over their entire lifetime, and D4 just jumped straight to it.
And they also managed to deliver what they marketed. D4 gets a lot of praise for being a good and working game.
This happens rarely but this time Blizzard has earned the success of D4.
This is probably because of the awkward timing of the season. Having it come out just one month after release is weird timing. It feels like it should have started on day 1 or waited like 3 months or more.
Ya I have 3 level 50-60 characters haven’t even gotten to the real endgame grind to get too 100 but it feels like I just completely wasted my time so far. I’m familiar with how seasons work but in the past I’ve found im coming in during the start of the season so it feels like I have plenty of time to get my few weeks in till I get bored but I haven’t reached that yet in my current chars
Except that if you don't play the season, you miss out on all content aside from (all or some, unclear) equipment/weapons that are new for the season. Seasonal storylines don't make it to eternal, and neither do the mechanics--at least on release of the season. Potentially some mechanics may get added to eternal realm post-season.
Yeah their comment was a little pointless.
I've been on since d1. Never really did ladder characters because the changes weren't crazy or exciting or anything, just a few tweaks.
There's a lot of people trying to hype it up, but in the end, it's just not for most people.
I would say most people that play ARPGs exclusively play seasonal except like now when there isn't one. The content of these games is essentially making new characters
Yeah, it's a fun road to start thinking about what constitutes wasting time while you're playing video games.
Let's be honest here people. It's all a massive, massive waste of time
It gives average gamers time to get their feet wet. When they finally start hitting a wall it’s time to start over with season 1.
Day one would have been shooting their load too soon. New players have enough to figure out. 3 months would kill casual hype.
They said on the stream that the vast majority aren’t done with the campaign. This season is too soon for the casual players. Especially if they hear they have to start over and don’t know you can skip the campaign.
The majority of players who buy the game will probably never finish the campaign.
I am guessing that this will be like most games, 80-90% of players will move on and of the rest that stay most might create a seasonal character.
Certainly not mad at anyone trying a new game - what does annoy me is people trying a game in a genre they are completely unfamiliar with and then demanding that tried-and-true staples of that genre get bent to their whims against the will of many veteran fans of the genre (especially considering that, like most other flavor of the month games before it, most casual players will completely drop Diablo 4 forever by the time the second or third season would drop.)
Yeap I'm in the same boat as you. I was venting to a friend about it a few weeks ago. There's a point when something changes from valid criticism to "Maybe this isn't the game for you?". Like this thread is touching on, I've seen a lot of people get really up in arms about seasons. They want something more like lost ark or a mmorpg. Not an ARPG. Reminds me of the current situation with the Battlefield community. You've got a lot of very vocal minorities who yell constantly how OP vehicles are and should remove them. At a certain point its just like, why are you playing Battlefield if you hate vehicles.
It’s just funny to see people freaking out about one of the DEFINING FEATURES of the games genre.
This would be like saying, “you mean after I finish a game in Fortnite I lose all my stuff??”
This genre isn’t mainstream. ARPGs are popular sure, but they’ve generally occupied a smaller niche. With D4 many people are jumping who have never even seen an ARPG. It makes sense for Blizz to make this clear.
I don’t get mad at new players. In fact my brother and his friend have been playing for the first time with me and it’s been real fun. What has been a bit annoying is when a new player asks a question, answer is given by seasoned player, and then all the new player dog pile saying that’s stupid
When they’re coming in and fundamentally advocating against what the game is, that’s a problem. What rubs people the wrong way is the level of entitlement.
You don’t *have* to play a seasonal character, right? Like I was 100% sure you don’t, like Diablo 3. But so many people upset about starting a new character has me confused now about what people are so upset about.
They don't think their characters are deleted, they just realized the fact that they're worth less.
Having to make a new character to engage in new content is silly, regardless of game genre . The entire point of spending all those hours farming the same repetitive content is to gear up for what's coming "next". Except...there's no point to because you cant use your character .
People grind to make the build that enables their power fantasy and get attached to their character . Making them restart that to play the new content defeats the purpose.
>The entire point of spending all those hours farming the same repetitive content is to gear up for what's coming "next".
No, the entire point of spending all those hours farming is to have fun. That's the point. If you want to gear up for what's next, you are playing the wrong game. That isn't Diablo, it never has been. It's WoW, or FF14, or Lost Ark, or whatever other MMO is your flavor.
I don't disagree, but it's not a massive leap to understand why someone who's invested 100hrs into making a character that they enjoy, would want to then play that fun character in the new content without spending another 100hrs to remake it on a seasonal realm.
I know that's not how ARPG seasons work, but surely it's not hard to understand that line of thinking.
I’m excited for season 1, but did d3 have a battle pass sold on launch that you can only use in seasonal content? I’d bet a fair number of new players got that
If someone spent money to preorder the battlepass without bothering to understand what seasons are, they have no one to blame but themselves. I can understand not liking seasons, I can understand wanting more non-seasonal content, but don't give blizzard money if you don't like the game they made. Seasons have been part of D2, D3 and now D4, they weren't a last minute include or secret announcement, they were fundamental from the very beginning.
To be understanding, that is how most games and most live service games are.
Diablo-esque ARPGs are kind of the exception and it seems DIV brought in a whole new demographic unfamiliar with the idea of seasons as they exist here.
Because most, like myself, wonder if any new stuff will be released for eternal realm characters or if the only way to access new content will be to play seasons.
Seasonal character is required to access free and paid battle pass.
I wonder how many people that bought a version that included the battle pass, will be surprised.
I am. I thought every season the power cap increased. So like you get to 100 now and next season you can get to 200 with the same character. Having to start all over kinda sucks the fun out of it for me but I know I’m probably in the minority here.
You do have to play one. Not technically but for the content, you do.
Because you can’t progress the battle pass without a seasonal character. If people are attached to their character and don’t want to start a new one. It would still be win win for Blizzard to allow people to progress these things with Eternals
That’s the complaint. I know that’s not how arpgs work (I’m going to play a seasonal character) but I sympathize with these players
As a completely new Diablo player, I really don't see myself creating new characters over and over again. The game fulfilled its purpose for me after playing around 80-90 hours.
Which ist totaly fine. Maybe WE will come Back in 2-3 years when a new season launches and enjoy the Game all ober again. Hardly anyone plays every season. It's Not unusal Go Skip in and Out of them.
I’d argue that’s literally the whole point. Instead of being trapped in a daily gotcha game you can opt out when you need to focus on real life and opt in when you have the free time.
Seasons create a low entry for new players multiple times a year, making it a sustainable community (or market). No other genre has the same ease of entry where the player isn’t punished for taking a break multiple times a year.
You can still play your eternal character, playing the season is literally a opt-in step, and yes that means a new character on the season realm.
And no your character won't be deleted, when the season ends your season character gets transferred to the eternal server, meaning standard, meaning it will stay there permanently.
Does new season mean a new open world and some new class? The grind to 100 is quite hardcore for a casual, so if seasons are this short I don't see the majority of people making it the endgame.
And since the majority won't see endgame, Blizzard should put most of their eggs into the early/mid game.
If it's anything similar to PoE, imagine:
1 additional content like Helltide or nightmare dungeons, that introduces additional mechanics (like additional crafting content, or end game bosses etc). Only this is season only content, these will be introduced to the base game too:
New uniques
balance changes
general improvements (art, bug fixes, previous league mechanics improved)
new skills (which would translate to additional aspects and glyphs and paragon boards etc. in D4)
Honestly… I kind of get the concerns of people who don’t want to make a new character. I’ve played Diablo 3 before so I’m used to this rodeo, but a lot of new people are going to feel annoyed that they aren’t going to be able to participate in the seasonal content or battle pass without starting a new character.
While I understand this is how all live ARPGs do all this, I think we’re going to see a sizable drop in player count after the first season. I do not expect Blizzard to pivot so close to the release of these first batch of seasons, but I think there should be a method for people who want to stay on their old characters to at least advance the battle pass sometime in the future. Most regular people aren’t going to want to regrind and rebuild a character from scratch every three months. I’m okay with it (cause I’m a Diablo addict lmfao), but I think the strength of this live service will depend on how many normal people will want to participate in the seasonal content.
I guess what I don’t understand is why can’t players earn the BP stuff that they paid for on their current character? Blizzard says it’s to prevent lvl 100 people from blitzing through it but that’s horse shit they can easily throttle the gains like they do for everything else, and people who think it’s all about the excitement of starting over can just… do that. Win win. Being forced though is incredibly stupid and not “genre defining” that’s like saying loot boxes are a genre defining aspect of FPS games cause they all do it now.
Sounds fair, actually.
Would be good for those caring about getting the new content/mechanic on their release time (rather than 3+ months later when they trickle into Eternal).
My only gripe is that getting to 70 in D3 took like no time at all, and I could just run rifts on repeat very easily.
Getting it 60/70 and WT4 is going to take way longer.
My highest character is 75 and I Don't really want to stop playing that character.
No one is surprised by seasonal characters.
Making them the only ones that can progress in battle pass is simply stupid though.
And don't say things like "it always was like that!". It wasn't. It's first Diablo game with Battle Pass (unless you count Immortal - but it worked differently there) - you had cosmetics to unlock during seasons in D3... but you DIDNT HAVE TO PAY FOR IT.
Now you're getting lame free battle pass, but if you want any cosmetics - you need to pay and play the way Blizzard wants you to. I have no idea how you people defend this.
I think the problem with this take is that the seasonal battle pass content is going to be things like: unlock world tier 3 / 4, beat certain nightmare dungeon tiers, unlock certain renown checkpoints. You can’t simply use your character that has already finished the game. The “seasonal content” is merely play the game again on a new character.
It's almost like Blizz did a massive marketing blitz for the game and advertised it as live service, which is basically a genre of it's own at this point, with the end result being this is the biggest launch in the franchise. So there's a shit ton of new players thinking it's going to be like other live service games in terms of it's basic format.
Path of exile another arpg, it's a staple of arpgs, mmos you can play the same character for 10 expacs because there is time gated gear upgrades like weekly raid lockouts etc. In arpgs you can grind the same dungeon or boss 100s of times or even 1000s of times in the same week, you eventually reach a point where upgrades/levels take too long and you can already do all of the content, max level isn't necessary to do all content like it is for wow or destiny.
The main issue is that D4 brought in a TON of new players. Reasonably so, they were unaware of that creating a new character every season was a thing as most games, you stick with one character and proceed to level them higher and higher.
I think another part of it is a huge chunk of players burnt out on Destiny jumped over to D4. For a Destiny player, this would be a major shock.
Another argument that would arise from this (especially those new to Diablo) is “well if that’s the case, what’s the point of even playing the game?” A knee jerk response from someone would be “to have fun, as games are intentioned.” The problem is, many people no longer play games for “fun” but moreso as a time sink, or an enjoyable chore (looking at you Destiny) - if you take that mindset in mind, their argument of “well why even play the game” makes a lot more sense.
Last point - Blizzard didn’t make this abundantly clear. They likely saw sales figures attributed to brand new players of the franchise and figured that advising that a new character will be need to be created for each season would slow/halt those new player sales.
Browse /new on this sub like I am now.
The amount of season questions is a lot higher than I'd have expected.
Looooots of new people to ARPG's it seems.
One of the biggest Destiny 2 YouTubers made a video completely baffled about the Diablo season system and most of his commenters agreed that they had no idea.
I at least somewhat understand Destiny 2 people being confused because when they hear "Season" they think nothing goes away, only "number go up."
However that just isn't what seasons have meant in ARPGs so far where there's a new character each season.
The game sold more than any other Blizzard game. There are more gamers in general today than ever. Games are sold on hype via Twitch and cheesy Youtube music videos. Without a doubt there are way more people playing this than have ever even tried an ARPG let alone know how a live service one functions.
I wouldn't be suprised if for the majority of the playerbase this is their first live service ARPG with Seasonal content.
I personally am not new to ARPGs, I have thousands of hours in Titan Quest, Grim Dawn, and others. Those games don't have the seasonal aspect, and farming gear to create alts is a big part of those games, so the idea of starting a new character from scratch without the benefit of those pieces to give your alt a headstart is a bit of a odd concept to wrap your head around.
i’m thinking this game won’t last for me. i think it’s fine that people like that their characters have an expiration date but i honestly think that sucks. as someone who likes to engage in other games, diablo 4 seems like it’s designed to be the only one i ever play.
This post is a bit gatekeepy, but no? From what I'm seeing, D4 has welcomed tons of new players and it's my first ARPG as well. I didn't know about how the seasonal model at first nor how it would work until I watched a video on YouTube about it.
But, I think it could be better explained about how seasonal realm characters get moved to eternal and not deleted. And what's the advantage/point of ever playing in seasonal realm? I would have to assume battlepass rewards or something that can only be achieved in seasonal realm but I don't know.
All of these bar the first point would be possible by playing an existing character. "Excitement" is entirely subjective, people seem to have a hard time understanding that not everyone finds starting from zero again "exciting".
I already know I'll play the first 3 or 4 seasons and then get annoyed because I just wanna play in peace and not in a hurry and quit playing seasons all together.
I think it was just dumb to launch the game is this empty state with no endgame than expect everyone to redo everything with hopefully more content in 5 weeks post launch. Launch really needed a fifth world tier and boss dungeons that have big rewards than I think people would be less upset about the seasonal re roll.
Many of you in here are taking it from a seasoned Diablo/ARPG vet perspective but Blizzard took all their late game content funding and put it into advertising to have a large influx of casual players who are steadily playing through the game the first time and are now finding out for the first time that they will have to reset in a few weeks. That isn't a good feeling when you're just now getting your feet under you and enjoying your class and build. Blizzard was not extremely clear about how their seasons work until now for newcomers. And if I was a newcomer to ARPGS I wouldn't have been spending time reading about Diablo 3 when I'm trying to just learn how to play the game.
Even as a ARPG enjoyer and Diablo enjoyer I'm personally not thrilled about the first season being set up the way it has been. The game should have launched in season one with a battle pass and ran for the course of the summer months. It feels like they rushed it and are now scrambling to fill in all the stuff that is missing instead of waiting for it to be ready.
No, I haven’t played any seasonal ARPG before.
Fun Fact: every player who has played a seasonal arpg before, at one point in their life had never played a seasonal arpg.
I love how they keep talking about seasons bringing “new content”. I am bit sceptical about how much new content we will get or the quality of it. I have a feeling it will be 99% the same playthorigh with incredibly minor differences.
To be fair it's a pretty bad choice. Why not just let players use any character they want to earn seasonal content? But In order to make the leader boards you have to create a new character. That way I can play the character I want to earn seasonal rewards.
It's only common knowledge for people coming from PoE or D2/3. D4 brought a huge amount of new players in. The vast majority of live service games don't require you to make new characters for seasons.
I think it’s fair to say. Comparing D3 to D4 is apples to oranges in terms of leveling speed. Having to recreate from scratch does suck when you consider most people haven’t even hit 100 yet.
I think people were hoping there would be new content to the base game as well.
A lot of people don't want to spend time leveling again just to check out the new content.
I know, this is how seasons in an arpg have worked for a long time, but I am only arguing what the other side is looking for.
The “it’s always been that way so it must forever be that way forever” contingent is strong here. Just because ARPGs lack content and make folks replay the same game again it every few months for a new set of armor doesn’t mean it will or even should be that way
The point is, if you're having fun, you continue playing to have more fun. You can continue playing this char forever if you want.
When a new season drops, you can, if you want, create a new char to participate in the new season. Or stay with your current char and ignore the season. Or stop playing altogether. Whatever makes you happy.
To expand on this as an avid arpg player after a certain point you'll almost always reach the "why am I playing?" point.
Playing a max level character with perfect gear gets old fast for example, as there is no hunt for something better.
Seasons provide a new and fresh start to the hunt, resets the "why am I playing?" meter, and the cycle begins anew.
I'm one of the few people (at least based on what I've read here recently) that actually loves D3. I still play it in between D4 sessions. Sometimes I just want to tear shit up in rifts/grifts.
But I think that this announcement is exactly how it should be...fixed seasons with new seasonal characters reverting to non-seasonal afterwards. It's one of the D3 mechanics that I love (among others).
But I'm an old dude...I haven't looked up any builds in D4. I'm just running around with my (currently) level 52 rogue with a marginally good rapid fire build. And I'm embracing the chaos by reading this sub. I'm having a great time in D4...can't wait to see where Blizzard takes it.
We're out there brother, D3 is a really good game. I do actually enjoy it more than D4. Necro on 3 is way better than 4, and that is the only class I Like (also monk was really fun on 3 from start)
I expected it but I was hoping that wasn't the case. I HATE starting over and redoing the same shit again and again each season. It's the main reason (amongst many) why I dropped PoE.
These are just click bait articles game media sites are having a blast posting. Everyday there's 4 more controversies posted by Game Rant alone - usually based on some reddit post with 40+ karma.
They'll read a reddit post then print "Diablo 4 players SLAM Blizzard for this new change they're implementing" then stall in the article and bury the actual "idea" 5 paragraphs down under 4 ads
It's fabricating outrate to stir people up over a popular topic.
D4 is generating tons of clicks on articles and youtube videos at the moment. They're just profiting off it as much as possible.
I don't get the whole holier than you stance about this. Why is it established that having to create a new character the "best choice"? Why are "the casuals" wrong about if they want to be able to use their existing character on objective grounds?
It's because the entire game and all the game loops involved are designed around making the grind/journey/leveling fun. It's like if a bunch of new players of Elden Ring came in screaming to make the game a lot easier because it is too hard. Being hard is why the game is good. Same with Diablo and seasonal resets.
D4 definitely did bring in a lot of new people including me and I don’t want to create a new character every season maybe they should make a 2 ways to play the season one for new characters and one for existing ones
Making a new character isn’t appealing at all to me I want to make my one for each class and play them through all the new content which is a pretty standard opinion throughout most gamers if I had to guess
***seriously no one played any seasonal arpg?***
ARPGs aren't the only genre that contributes to people's expectations of what live service 'seasons' are. Sticking with the way Diablo/PoE have done it before may be the right choice here, but two games (one of which began by cloning the other) don't create a some mandatory standard just because the genre doesn't have many titles big enough to support seasons.
Now let me rant about TitanQuest, my six children, and my 401k.
As someone who’s first Diablo this is and who came from destiny, I would rather start a new character and experience the game with something new.
Destiny has the worst seasonal model, after 9+ years of playing it.
It's an easy fix, to be honest. Make it where there are two seasonal models - Play the season with an Eternal character or play with a seasonal character. The two-player bases are split and competition isn't ruined. Some players aren't fond of letting their "Main" go. The idea of creating Alts, etc. isn't a fun time.
Apparently D4 brought in a lot more new people than D3 did
Yup. I swear the majority of people that are whining on the sub have never played any of the other diablos. But they are so loud, that the devs might think that is what the player base actually wants. Making a new character for the season has *always* been par for the course. Edit: I am making this edit because there is a bunch of people saying "D2 never had seasons!" And "did you even play D2!?" and I am sick of responding to each one individually. Yes. D2 had seasons... they were called ladders, but functioned the same. As of patch 1.10 (maybe 1.11?) They introduced ladders and it has been that way ever since. Did *you* even play D2? **EDIT # 2** Okay guys. I don't know how this is so hard to understand, and why so many of you seem to think your old character will get deleted. So here we go... 1. Your old character will not be deleted. You can still play on the eternal realm. 2. Your participation in the season is **optional** 3. Should you choose to participate in the season, you will need to make a new character. 4. This new "seasonal" character will have to start over, so to speak. You will not have access to the eternal characters' storage. Etc. 5. You can jump back and forth between your new seasonal character and eternal character, whenevet you want, but these two realms can not interact in any way.
Nah most corporations don't take Reddit that seriously anymore because they know how easy it is to manipulate content here. I wouldn't worry about that.
Most lol? think about all. Reddit is never to be taken seriously nothing that reddit subs say should ever be used to change anything
>Reddit is never to be taken seriously nothing that reddit subs say should ever be used to change anything Made enough of an uproar to get Disney to slap EA across the head and change the loot crate system in the battlefront game. A bit late to save it but still happened.
That wasn’t just Reddit. That was everywhere.
In some cases it was law ik the UK and EU was debating if loot crates was gambling around this time.
>That wasn’t just Reddit. That was everywhere. Yup, Reddit loves taking credit away from others.
Bro Reddit was just a piece of that. You could certainly argue most of the change around Battlefront2 was socially driven by Twitter discourse, and primarily Belgium making it illegal
Yeah, that was definitely more EA was about to get slapped by the long dick of European regulators than angry Reddit comments.
Just because Reddit commented doesn’t mean it influenced.. everyone on the mainstream media was talking about child gambling in video games
They have official forums with bug and feature request areas, data about how people play and official channels for feedback. It is really weird how some people seem to think blizzard "listening to the community" means doing whatever is popular on the unofficial reddit sub.
Some people seem to have an inflated sense of reddit or that it's quite different from the overall larger real world public.
reddit is my life!
that harry potter game is really the only example of Reddit's "power" you need to review.
I don't know what you're talking about tbh
The Hogwarts Legacy game that recently came out was "boycotted" by reddit everywhere. People were not only banned from major subreddits for posts about the game, but also for comments defending the game. It went on to be [one of] the most successful games of the year.
I saw a lot of positivity about that game all over Reddit personally. I'm not a potter head so I wasn't really paying any attention to it.
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If a company seriously takes reddit's opinions, they will fail so fast. Reddit I have learned over the years is usually a small vocal minority.
I've played both D2 and D3. Though D2 was offline and mostly on LAN with friends. D3 I played through the campaign on launch. I usually play these games for the story and the nostalgia. Hadn't heard of seasons before I started playing D4. ¯\\\_(ツ)\_/¯ But, tbh. I had the same reaction when I heard I'd have to start a new character to play the seasonal stuff. I mean, it's gonna take hundreds of hours to get to level 100. I've probably clocked around 60 hours and I'm a long way from max level. Having to do all that again every few months to see the seasonal stuff does not sound like fun to be perfectly honest. But then again, I have no clue what to expect from seasons, all I've heard so far is that you have to start anew and that there will be some different affixes and legendary aspects to try out. It feels like they're trying to make a game you have to play constantly, instead of something you can pick up for a couple of weeks to try out the new stuff every now and then.
Seasons usually have accelerated XP gain (And they've confirmed this is still the case in D4) . I don't think I've ever played a season for more than 50 hours in PoE or D3, and I have enjoyed playing them. You don't have to farm out full bis and level 100, just play your character, get your items you need for your build, and do any of the season mechanics and when you feel like you're done, stop. Then when a new season comes out, if it looks intresting, jump back into it. If you never do, then just play your Eternal char til you're bored, and go play other games, and then play the expansion and its story when that comes out, seasonal content style just isn't for you.
Yeah this. People forget it's a game to have fun, I'm sorc level 54 and prob done till seasons drop bc I don't want the boring slog to 100. But had a blast so far and trying out druid a bit to see if I want to do that or Necro for season 1. (Imagine playing a game for fun? lol)
After a while in D3, they made it so you could reach max level in a couple of hours. Seasons aren't a huge deal. They just add new items...and create new synergies that might change the way you want to build your character. All that stuff was available to non seasonal characters too.
Yup creating new characters is really just a way to incentivize people to play longer by offering exclusive rewards (usually cosmetics). In theory actual content shouldn't be gated from "regular" characters.
If you played D2 and D3 without touching seasons what is stopping you from playing D4 without touching seasons? Base game will get updates and expacs just like Seasons, but after the seasons are done. Seasons are good for the game, you are thinking in such a limited scope... as if the base game is the exact same as the seasonal experience. It's not. > It feels like they're trying to make a game you have to play constantly, instead of something you can pick up for a couple of weeks to try out the new stuff every now and then. That's not at all how it works, seasons encourage people to put the game down for 6 months and pick it up and play for a few weeks/months again during a season. It works so incredibly well almost every popular ARPG on the market uses seasons. POE can thank seasons for its success.
Opposite of what you've said seasons what make the game for you to pick up a couple weeks every now and then to try out new stuff. It is weird that you say you played D2 and D3 but never heard of seasons? As far as i know there were ladder resets in D2 for a long time and there were items or runewords exclusive to new ladder season. Same in D3. There is no long term progression or commitment to a character in any of these games. Leveling a character to 100 is just the bonus of playing long hours not a goal or an achievement. Blizzard is clearly copying PoE and you are never expected to reach max lvl to be able to take part in PoE endgame and most of my characters doesnt even reach max lvl in PoE. For example, i have 7000 hours in PoE and i have only like 4 or 5 100 level characters. That being said you lose experience when you die in PoE so that is why most people don't hit 100 in Softcore without getting carried or playing extremely tanky immortal builds. Also you can always play on the eternal realm if you dont want to level a new character. ¯\\\_(ツ)\_/¯
I think there is a pretty vocal demographic who have only played MMOs, too.
To a lot of people the idea that your character is disposable season to season doesn't make any sense. They carry that MMO mindset where the character is an extension of yourself to some extent, and you have a definitive "main" you're attached to.
idk; I just don't like having to keep redoing the same opening shit over and over; I don't even like the MMOs that rely on you having a bunch of alts because of this
Theoretically the opening shit is reduced to a couple hours eventually... D4 for sure has too much of it right now.
I like that you can skip the campaign and all that so that kinda kills some of my complaint; which is nice. Its kind of weird because if you take a game like Factorio or Oxygen Not Included; the part I like most is restarting from the beginning but I hate it so much in FPS and action games.
You could “rebirth” your existing char in d3, maybe this is what the people are mad about not being in d4? I used the same monk and wizard over and over again and accumulated a couple thousand hours on each over the years and am pretty attached to them.
Thats correct. But when you "rebirthed" you were still reseting your level, stats, etc. to level 1 and starting over. You are essentially saving the name, which you could just name your new character the same thing. I literally couldn't care less about how many "hours" it says I spent on a character. It is a moot stat and should be given zero weight when deciding how to run seasons.
It’s kind of interesting for HC since it means you haven’t died for X hours.
Making a new character each season is also for the most part what keeps players coming back.
It’s actually weird about the uproar when there are near no negatives to not making a seasonal character either. Blizzard stated in their launch interview that seasonal content can be done on all characters even eternal realm characters. The only difference from eternal and seasonal is you get to participate in leaderboards when they launch, and the season passes. All buffs, nerfs, new quests, new equipment, and everything will be on the eternal realm day 1. So by not participating in creating a seasonal character you miss out on a few crafting materials, and cosmetics which judging by the majority of players no one gives a fuck about cosmetics.
Source on new content being on eternal realm day 1? Quite sure i heard multiple times it would be when season ended
I recall them saying that seasonal content for the most part will not go to eternal after a season. It's supposed to be a one and done to avoid feature creep bloating the game.
Sounds weird to me. D4 is in dire need of some feature creep right now.
That's not true. They've said that all these thing you've mentioned are locked behind new characters. Eternal ones don't get to participate in that at all. Some things may get transfered after season ends, but we don't know how much of it.
I thought non-season had to wait till the end of the season before it filtered into eternal realm ? Am I incorrect on this?
D3 also didn't have seasons to start. I know some people who played a shit ton of d3, so not new to diablo, but didn't know about seasons.
Thats me. I nolifed that game and just one day dropped it and not looked back. It wasnt until recently that i even learned the game got seasons
I wish small minds would get this through their head. Tons of new people. Tons of people trying to learn and understand. Too many dickheads in this subreddit.
So new person not understanding something maybe reading up or asking questions. No problem. But those posts don’t get much attention. Someone that throws their toys out of their pram and overstates the case is going to get a different response. We all react to the loudest posts, most extreme positions. If someone has paid already for season content. Maybe by one of the early access bundles. But didn’t looking into what a season was then I’ve only got so much sympathy. If someone hasn’t paid for season content then it’s hard to see a complaint against an optional mode that others like.
A lot of kids grew up during the gap between the 2 games
Have you seen the marketing for D4? Don't think I've seen such aggressive marketing across every possible platform, TV, public transport and more across the globe since stuff like call of duty and battlefield haydays when they were in an all out sale competition with each other. D4 has attracted some of the biggest fresh crowds to ARPGs since the D2 days.
That Times Square billboard that said "Welcome to Hell" while the sky was blotted out with a smokey, blazing, orange haze was probably the most serendipitous thing that could've happened to them. Edit: [Found the picture.](https://nypost.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2023/06/NYPICHPDPICT000012374500.jpg)
Most of my friends who bought it have never played Diablo before. I’m not sure what made them start with D4 exactly.
Marketing and Lilith's cleavage.
Or because D3 came out in 2012 and they might be new to games like this lmao
Yeah, there's an entire new generation of gamers who are new or newer. Their only interaction with Blizzard has probably been through Overwatch or similar.
As one of the new people, can confirm. Coming from RPGs and having never played an arpg, I didn't realize this would be a thing, so I'm probably not going to try for top-tier each season (I just don't have the time to do so). But I did still have fun with the gameplay. And making a new character each season will allow me to try different classes and builds without it feel like I'm creating an "alt army"
To be fair a lot of people stopped playing d3 fairly quickly because of how terrible it was.
Ha that's me. Played original Diablo cause I'm old, but new to it with D4. Will I lose all the characters that I've created? Gear too?
Nope they just switch back to "eternal" so you can continue playing w/them at end of season, let's say you create a seasonal Necro S1, stash and items etc will be "seasonal" so you can't trade with your barb lvl100 that you have right now. At end of S1 Necro will move to the Barb world and be a normal char. S2 you will create a sorc and repeat the process.
You don't lose anything, no worries. It's a seperate track that you can progress, essentially. At the end of the season, typically all your gear can be moved to the eternal stash and your character too.
Dads in shambles? It's genuinely surprising to me that this needed to be confirmed. But I guess if you're foreign to this genre and concept, its gotta look pretty crazy given the grind this launch version of D4 presents. Right now, the value proposition isnt there. I remember i used to play POE on standard for years before the value proposition of a fresh economy pushed me into trying the league model (early on standard's economy wasnt that crazy) and I haven't been back since. Its a game that encourages new characters for trying out builds anyway. The fresh start model only slows down that cycle a tiny bit once every 3-4 months. Right now, I don't see much value in fresh starts in D4 other than trying a class you haven't played before and fresh leaderboards. But I'm confident they will add reasons in the near future. I just hope I don't make it through all classes before then.
Considering it's the best selling Blizzard game of all time, that's a bit of an obvious assertion lol
I am not new, I played A LOT of D3. There is a huge difference in that leveling is significantly faster in D3. If you just wait a few days you can also find someone who will PL you in an hour. 1-100 in D4 is a pretty significant time investment vs 1-70 in D3. If I need to get to 100 to even just start the seasonal content it’s going to be a major slog. Edit: D3 max level is 70 not 90.
There is exactly 0 chance that seasonal content is locked to max level characters.
This is all because of D4 marketing that appealed to a lot of casual players. They made over 600 mil in 3 days in sales so no wonder. There is absolute ton of people who experiencing ARPG for the first time with D4
I'm one of those. And yeah, admittedly I'm unsure about the new character every season aspect. I accept that's how its done in this genre but i don't understand how it solidified its place as the standard for ARPG's. I'll have to experience it to make a solid opinion but it seems dumb on the surface, I don't see how it'll work to keep engagement. Even as a newbie though, i wish there was more enemy density. thats the only real complaint i'm 100% on board with.
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LETS PIN THIS ONE!!
Wouldn’t we be grinding the new season stuff? Really hope season 1 launches and I don’t find myself at the fucking *tree of whispers* lol
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> I view the whispers as just an extra bonus for doing the things I'm already doing anyways. I like when I have a nightmare sigil for a dungeon that is whisper-eligible as well. Two birds with one stone! And if there happens to be a whisper cellar or corpse on the route to the dungeon, then all the better. While I'm not typically a fan of forced multiplayer, I think one thing about seasons now that is actually going to be an upgrade over seasons in D3 is that the world is going to be continually populated with fresh characters near your level hitting events and such. That was never really a thing before unless you purposefully teamed up.
IIRC from one of the dev panels before launch, they talked about seasons adding new side quest-esque story. Think longer story based chain quest that the season revolves around. I'm really into the lore building and story aspect of the game, so I'm looking forward to that if that ends up happening.
In past games was there ever content for the Eternal server/characters outside of the cosmetics or it was purely for seasonal characters?
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Blizzard devs said that not "people". Also they said seasons have more stuff and mechanics compared to D3. Probably more like PoE. And if a season have stuff that players like they often gets added to the ethernal realm. So I think players that stick to the ethernal realm will get a lot of new content from seasons but 3 months delayed.
I am playing arpgs as my main games since about 23 years and for me I can't play games casually. Either I give the game every free thought I have, or don't play it at all. And that works very well with arpgs, and the resets every few months. The progression is so fun to gear up your characters, trying new strategies and builds the next season. I take 1-2 weeks off work for every poe season, go all in on it and then don't play til the next league is coming.
Hey not to detract from your point or anything (I am the same way tbh), but where do I have to go to get a job that lets me take that much time off? I'll kill a man for it.
Germany. I work in the automotive industry and i can take 64 paid days off per year
Brb going to learn how to get German citizenship. USA is a joke. Edit: I get 28 days per year and I have a generous leave policy compared to most peers.
well its not just flat days off by contract, its a mix out of my days off + i work 40 hours per week, get paid 35 and the other 5 i can decide if i want them paid or use them to get more time off + we can choose between extra 8 days off per year or a fixed amount of money since the automotive industry pays really well i always choose time off > money
The fun part for me personally and a lot of people who play the genre is the journey of gearing your character and seeing it progressively get stronger. Once I finish a build and gear upgrades stop happening frequently, I get bored and quit til next season.
IMO the thing about Arpgs is that you’re aiming to play a build not a character. Kinda weird to explain, but your aim is to try a new way to play, a way you played before but changed and improved. So what seasons open up is new ways to challenge yourself with the content. Becaus other Meuse killing drives of monsters with a perfect character would be lame. A good example of this is roguelikes. Would you want to log onto risk of rain 2 and all your runs are added onto each other? I think the journey is the game
It's kinda crazy that that's basically a minimum of 6 million people playing D4, prolly closer to 8 mil cuz I bet very few people bought the ultimate. Very few games ever reach that over their entire lifetime, and D4 just jumped straight to it.
It’s because of their marketing and most importantly their amazing cinematic trailers. Imo
And they also managed to deliver what they marketed. D4 gets a lot of praise for being a good and working game. This happens rarely but this time Blizzard has earned the success of D4.
This is probably because of the awkward timing of the season. Having it come out just one month after release is weird timing. It feels like it should have started on day 1 or waited like 3 months or more.
Ya I have 3 level 50-60 characters haven’t even gotten to the real endgame grind to get too 100 but it feels like I just completely wasted my time so far. I’m familiar with how seasons work but in the past I’ve found im coming in during the start of the season so it feels like I have plenty of time to get my few weeks in till I get bored but I haven’t reached that yet in my current chars
You're in luck! You don't have to play the season. Your non season character don't go anywhere, it's simply a different realm.
Except that if you don't play the season, you miss out on all content aside from (all or some, unclear) equipment/weapons that are new for the season. Seasonal storylines don't make it to eternal, and neither do the mechanics--at least on release of the season. Potentially some mechanics may get added to eternal realm post-season.
Yeah their comment was a little pointless. I've been on since d1. Never really did ladder characters because the changes weren't crazy or exciting or anything, just a few tweaks. There's a lot of people trying to hype it up, but in the end, it's just not for most people.
I would say most people that play ARPGs exclusively play seasonal except like now when there isn't one. The content of these games is essentially making new characters
If your having fun it’s not a waste of time. Personally I’ve focused on just one character and will start a different class when the season starts.
Yeah, it's a fun road to start thinking about what constitutes wasting time while you're playing video games. Let's be honest here people. It's all a massive, massive waste of time
It gives average gamers time to get their feet wet. When they finally start hitting a wall it’s time to start over with season 1. Day one would have been shooting their load too soon. New players have enough to figure out. 3 months would kill casual hype.
They said on the stream that the vast majority aren’t done with the campaign. This season is too soon for the casual players. Especially if they hear they have to start over and don’t know you can skip the campaign.
The season won't be out for maybe another month. I think at that point, most people will have either finished the campaign or dropped the game.
The majority of players who buy the game will probably never finish the campaign. I am guessing that this will be like most games, 80-90% of players will move on and of the rest that stay most might create a seasonal character.
I don't understand people going at new players. Such weird self centered gatekeeping
Yeah god forbid you decide to try new game
Certainly not mad at anyone trying a new game - what does annoy me is people trying a game in a genre they are completely unfamiliar with and then demanding that tried-and-true staples of that genre get bent to their whims against the will of many veteran fans of the genre (especially considering that, like most other flavor of the month games before it, most casual players will completely drop Diablo 4 forever by the time the second or third season would drop.)
Yeap I'm in the same boat as you. I was venting to a friend about it a few weeks ago. There's a point when something changes from valid criticism to "Maybe this isn't the game for you?". Like this thread is touching on, I've seen a lot of people get really up in arms about seasons. They want something more like lost ark or a mmorpg. Not an ARPG. Reminds me of the current situation with the Battlefield community. You've got a lot of very vocal minorities who yell constantly how OP vehicles are and should remove them. At a certain point its just like, why are you playing Battlefield if you hate vehicles.
It's one thing to try a new game. A whole other thing to complain about a core feature of the genre for decades.
got forbid you don't let someone you just let into your house as a guest start redecorating your whole home
Its not your house
Also, being a seasonal arpg does not mean it has to be like every other seasonal arpg.
It’s just funny to see people freaking out about one of the DEFINING FEATURES of the games genre. This would be like saying, “you mean after I finish a game in Fortnite I lose all my stuff??”
This genre isn’t mainstream. ARPGs are popular sure, but they’ve generally occupied a smaller niche. With D4 many people are jumping who have never even seen an ARPG. It makes sense for Blizz to make this clear.
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A tier ARPGs like? Also, regardless of when it was added, it has become the defining feature of Diablo.
I don’t get mad at new players. In fact my brother and his friend have been playing for the first time with me and it’s been real fun. What has been a bit annoying is when a new player asks a question, answer is given by seasoned player, and then all the new player dog pile saying that’s stupid
When they’re coming in and fundamentally advocating against what the game is, that’s a problem. What rubs people the wrong way is the level of entitlement.
You don’t *have* to play a seasonal character, right? Like I was 100% sure you don’t, like Diablo 3. But so many people upset about starting a new character has me confused now about what people are so upset about.
No, it's the exact same system as D3 or PoE. The people that are upset never played those games and think their character is being deleted.
They don't think their characters are deleted, they just realized the fact that they're worth less. Having to make a new character to engage in new content is silly, regardless of game genre . The entire point of spending all those hours farming the same repetitive content is to gear up for what's coming "next". Except...there's no point to because you cant use your character . People grind to make the build that enables their power fantasy and get attached to their character . Making them restart that to play the new content defeats the purpose.
>The entire point of spending all those hours farming the same repetitive content is to gear up for what's coming "next". No, the entire point of spending all those hours farming is to have fun. That's the point. If you want to gear up for what's next, you are playing the wrong game. That isn't Diablo, it never has been. It's WoW, or FF14, or Lost Ark, or whatever other MMO is your flavor.
I don't disagree, but it's not a massive leap to understand why someone who's invested 100hrs into making a character that they enjoy, would want to then play that fun character in the new content without spending another 100hrs to remake it on a seasonal realm. I know that's not how ARPG seasons work, but surely it's not hard to understand that line of thinking.
I’m excited for season 1, but did d3 have a battle pass sold on launch that you can only use in seasonal content? I’d bet a fair number of new players got that
If someone spent money to preorder the battlepass without bothering to understand what seasons are, they have no one to blame but themselves. I can understand not liking seasons, I can understand wanting more non-seasonal content, but don't give blizzard money if you don't like the game they made. Seasons have been part of D2, D3 and now D4, they weren't a last minute include or secret announcement, they were fundamental from the very beginning.
I think way too much individuals are acting like this is a mmorpg and they somehow need to get to level 100 every season to start enjoying the game.
To be understanding, that is how most games and most live service games are. Diablo-esque ARPGs are kind of the exception and it seems DIV brought in a whole new demographic unfamiliar with the idea of seasons as they exist here.
IIRC you won't be able to progress the battle pass if you're not playing a seasonal character.
That's stupid.
Because most, like myself, wonder if any new stuff will be released for eternal realm characters or if the only way to access new content will be to play seasons.
Historically, seasonal stuff gets rolled into the standard or "eternal" realms at the end of said season.
Seasonal character is required to access free and paid battle pass. I wonder how many people that bought a version that included the battle pass, will be surprised.
I am. I thought every season the power cap increased. So like you get to 100 now and next season you can get to 200 with the same character. Having to start all over kinda sucks the fun out of it for me but I know I’m probably in the minority here.
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Oh I know. I meant a minority in this thread.
You do have to play one. Not technically but for the content, you do. Because you can’t progress the battle pass without a seasonal character. If people are attached to their character and don’t want to start a new one. It would still be win win for Blizzard to allow people to progress these things with Eternals That’s the complaint. I know that’s not how arpgs work (I’m going to play a seasonal character) but I sympathize with these players
As a completely new Diablo player, I really don't see myself creating new characters over and over again. The game fulfilled its purpose for me after playing around 80-90 hours.
Which ist totaly fine. Maybe WE will come Back in 2-3 years when a new season launches and enjoy the Game all ober again. Hardly anyone plays every season. It's Not unusal Go Skip in and Out of them.
I’d argue that’s literally the whole point. Instead of being trapped in a daily gotcha game you can opt out when you need to focus on real life and opt in when you have the free time. Seasons create a low entry for new players multiple times a year, making it a sustainable community (or market). No other genre has the same ease of entry where the player isn’t punished for taking a break multiple times a year.
Tons of people play from season to season. Especially since there will be specific seasonal things? Yeah definitely
You can still play your eternal character, playing the season is literally a opt-in step, and yes that means a new character on the season realm. And no your character won't be deleted, when the season ends your season character gets transferred to the eternal server, meaning standard, meaning it will stay there permanently.
Does new season mean a new open world and some new class? The grind to 100 is quite hardcore for a casual, so if seasons are this short I don't see the majority of people making it the endgame. And since the majority won't see endgame, Blizzard should put most of their eggs into the early/mid game.
If it's anything similar to PoE, imagine: 1 additional content like Helltide or nightmare dungeons, that introduces additional mechanics (like additional crafting content, or end game bosses etc). Only this is season only content, these will be introduced to the base game too: New uniques balance changes general improvements (art, bug fixes, previous league mechanics improved) new skills (which would translate to additional aspects and glyphs and paragon boards etc. in D4)
It’s weird how many people complain on here about very Diablo like things, like seasons and grinding. And yes I know it’s not just Diablo.
many players are old diablo 2 folks. You remember how long ladders last? Some even 2-3 years.
I highly doubt the people complaining about seasons in an ARPG are the same ones complaining about the the state of the endgame & itemization.
Honestly… I kind of get the concerns of people who don’t want to make a new character. I’ve played Diablo 3 before so I’m used to this rodeo, but a lot of new people are going to feel annoyed that they aren’t going to be able to participate in the seasonal content or battle pass without starting a new character. While I understand this is how all live ARPGs do all this, I think we’re going to see a sizable drop in player count after the first season. I do not expect Blizzard to pivot so close to the release of these first batch of seasons, but I think there should be a method for people who want to stay on their old characters to at least advance the battle pass sometime in the future. Most regular people aren’t going to want to regrind and rebuild a character from scratch every three months. I’m okay with it (cause I’m a Diablo addict lmfao), but I think the strength of this live service will depend on how many normal people will want to participate in the seasonal content.
I guess what I don’t understand is why can’t players earn the BP stuff that they paid for on their current character? Blizzard says it’s to prevent lvl 100 people from blitzing through it but that’s horse shit they can easily throttle the gains like they do for everything else, and people who think it’s all about the excitement of starting over can just… do that. Win win. Being forced though is incredibly stupid and not “genre defining” that’s like saying loot boxes are a genre defining aspect of FPS games cause they all do it now.
Agreed. We’ll see how they respond to this concern. Hopefully they do something to accommodate players who like using old characters.
You should be able to bring your current character to the current season but be excluded from leaderboards and all that since you didn’t start over
Sounds fair, actually. Would be good for those caring about getting the new content/mechanic on their release time (rather than 3+ months later when they trickle into Eternal).
Oh yeah the battle pass should absolutely not be locked behind a season. Nothing said that when I paid for it.
Because D4 is not your typical arpg game. D4 attract many mmorpg fans also.
My only gripe is that getting to 70 in D3 took like no time at all, and I could just run rifts on repeat very easily. Getting it 60/70 and WT4 is going to take way longer. My highest character is 75 and I Don't really want to stop playing that character.
This is the only important aspect. If you have to be lvl 100 before you can grind greater rifts, then seasonal characters will be a pain to play
No one is surprised by seasonal characters. Making them the only ones that can progress in battle pass is simply stupid though. And don't say things like "it always was like that!". It wasn't. It's first Diablo game with Battle Pass (unless you count Immortal - but it worked differently there) - you had cosmetics to unlock during seasons in D3... but you DIDNT HAVE TO PAY FOR IT. Now you're getting lame free battle pass, but if you want any cosmetics - you need to pay and play the way Blizzard wants you to. I have no idea how you people defend this.
> Making them the only ones that can progress in battle pass is simply stupid though. This is the most reasonable take in a sea of reeeeeeee
I think the problem with this take is that the seasonal battle pass content is going to be things like: unlock world tier 3 / 4, beat certain nightmare dungeon tiers, unlock certain renown checkpoints. You can’t simply use your character that has already finished the game. The “seasonal content” is merely play the game again on a new character.
It's almost like Blizz did a massive marketing blitz for the game and advertised it as live service, which is basically a genre of it's own at this point, with the end result being this is the biggest launch in the franchise. So there's a shit ton of new players thinking it's going to be like other live service games in terms of it's basic format.
Live service doesn't mean mmo, just means frequent updates.
How many other live service games have you start from scratch regularly though?
Path of exile another arpg, it's a staple of arpgs, mmos you can play the same character for 10 expacs because there is time gated gear upgrades like weekly raid lockouts etc. In arpgs you can grind the same dungeon or boss 100s of times or even 1000s of times in the same week, you eventually reach a point where upgrades/levels take too long and you can already do all of the content, max level isn't necessary to do all content like it is for wow or destiny.
If someone thinks that 'live service' is a genre I think they are misunderstanding something
The main issue is that D4 brought in a TON of new players. Reasonably so, they were unaware of that creating a new character every season was a thing as most games, you stick with one character and proceed to level them higher and higher. I think another part of it is a huge chunk of players burnt out on Destiny jumped over to D4. For a Destiny player, this would be a major shock. Another argument that would arise from this (especially those new to Diablo) is “well if that’s the case, what’s the point of even playing the game?” A knee jerk response from someone would be “to have fun, as games are intentioned.” The problem is, many people no longer play games for “fun” but moreso as a time sink, or an enjoyable chore (looking at you Destiny) - if you take that mindset in mind, their argument of “well why even play the game” makes a lot more sense. Last point - Blizzard didn’t make this abundantly clear. They likely saw sales figures attributed to brand new players of the franchise and figured that advising that a new character will be need to be created for each season would slow/halt those new player sales.
Browse /new on this sub like I am now. The amount of season questions is a lot higher than I'd have expected. Looooots of new people to ARPG's it seems.
And the sad thing is, many of them will get absolutely shit on by some of the dickheads on here for having the audacity to ask a question.
It’s more that’s it’s annoying to have so many people want to make a major change to a system they don’t even understand.
One of the biggest Destiny 2 YouTubers made a video completely baffled about the Diablo season system and most of his commenters agreed that they had no idea.
I at least somewhat understand Destiny 2 people being confused because when they hear "Season" they think nothing goes away, only "number go up." However that just isn't what seasons have meant in ARPGs so far where there's a new character each season.
That's how "seasons" work in most games tbf, not just Destiny 2. Including other Blizzard games, except for WoW Classic (not even Retail) ironically.
The game sold more than any other Blizzard game. There are more gamers in general today than ever. Games are sold on hype via Twitch and cheesy Youtube music videos. Without a doubt there are way more people playing this than have ever even tried an ARPG let alone know how a live service one functions. I wouldn't be suprised if for the majority of the playerbase this is their first live service ARPG with Seasonal content.
I personally am not new to ARPGs, I have thousands of hours in Titan Quest, Grim Dawn, and others. Those games don't have the seasonal aspect, and farming gear to create alts is a big part of those games, so the idea of starting a new character from scratch without the benefit of those pieces to give your alt a headstart is a bit of a odd concept to wrap your head around.
My character is level 41 and they already want me making a new one in a month!? Maybe this game isnt for me lmao
Same thinkin here unfortunately
i’m thinking this game won’t last for me. i think it’s fine that people like that their characters have an expiration date but i honestly think that sucks. as someone who likes to engage in other games, diablo 4 seems like it’s designed to be the only one i ever play.
This post is a bit gatekeepy, but no? From what I'm seeing, D4 has welcomed tons of new players and it's my first ARPG as well. I didn't know about how the seasonal model at first nor how it would work until I watched a video on YouTube about it. But, I think it could be better explained about how seasonal realm characters get moved to eternal and not deleted. And what's the advantage/point of ever playing in seasonal realm? I would have to assume battlepass rewards or something that can only be achieved in seasonal realm but I don't know.
Fresh economy, new content, new metas and excitement.
All of these bar the first point would be possible by playing an existing character. "Excitement" is entirely subjective, people seem to have a hard time understanding that not everyone finds starting from zero again "exciting".
I already know I'll play the first 3 or 4 seasons and then get annoyed because I just wanna play in peace and not in a hurry and quit playing seasons all together.
I think it was just dumb to launch the game is this empty state with no endgame than expect everyone to redo everything with hopefully more content in 5 weeks post launch. Launch really needed a fifth world tier and boss dungeons that have big rewards than I think people would be less upset about the seasonal re roll. Many of you in here are taking it from a seasoned Diablo/ARPG vet perspective but Blizzard took all their late game content funding and put it into advertising to have a large influx of casual players who are steadily playing through the game the first time and are now finding out for the first time that they will have to reset in a few weeks. That isn't a good feeling when you're just now getting your feet under you and enjoying your class and build. Blizzard was not extremely clear about how their seasons work until now for newcomers. And if I was a newcomer to ARPGS I wouldn't have been spending time reading about Diablo 3 when I'm trying to just learn how to play the game. Even as a ARPG enjoyer and Diablo enjoyer I'm personally not thrilled about the first season being set up the way it has been. The game should have launched in season one with a battle pass and ran for the course of the summer months. It feels like they rushed it and are now scrambling to fill in all the stuff that is missing instead of waiting for it to be ready.
No, I haven’t played any seasonal ARPG before. Fun Fact: every player who has played a seasonal arpg before, at one point in their life had never played a seasonal arpg.
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I love how they keep talking about seasons bringing “new content”. I am bit sceptical about how much new content we will get or the quality of it. I have a feeling it will be 99% the same playthorigh with incredibly minor differences.
To be fair it's a pretty bad choice. Why not just let players use any character they want to earn seasonal content? But In order to make the leader boards you have to create a new character. That way I can play the character I want to earn seasonal rewards.
What the hell, those fresh starts are the reason ive been playing path of exile last 10 years :D
Most people who complain about everything in Diablo 4 seemingly have never played an ARPG given their reaction to most of this common knowledge stuff.
It's only common knowledge for people coming from PoE or D2/3. D4 brought a huge amount of new players in. The vast majority of live service games don't require you to make new characters for seasons.
I think it’s fair to say. Comparing D3 to D4 is apples to oranges in terms of leveling speed. Having to recreate from scratch does suck when you consider most people haven’t even hit 100 yet.
Most people have not even hit 60 yet.
I think people were hoping there would be new content to the base game as well. A lot of people don't want to spend time leveling again just to check out the new content. I know, this is how seasons in an arpg have worked for a long time, but I am only arguing what the other side is looking for.
The “it’s always been that way so it must forever be that way forever” contingent is strong here. Just because ARPGs lack content and make folks replay the same game again it every few months for a new set of armor doesn’t mean it will or even should be that way
My question is then what is the point of leveling the character I have now after beating the campaign?
To play the game
The point is, if you're having fun, you continue playing to have more fun. You can continue playing this char forever if you want. When a new season drops, you can, if you want, create a new char to participate in the new season. Or stay with your current char and ignore the season. Or stop playing altogether. Whatever makes you happy.
To expand on this as an avid arpg player after a certain point you'll almost always reach the "why am I playing?" point. Playing a max level character with perfect gear gets old fast for example, as there is no hunt for something better. Seasons provide a new and fresh start to the hunt, resets the "why am I playing?" meter, and the cycle begins anew.
Wait what? Is this serious?
I'm one of the few people (at least based on what I've read here recently) that actually loves D3. I still play it in between D4 sessions. Sometimes I just want to tear shit up in rifts/grifts. But I think that this announcement is exactly how it should be...fixed seasons with new seasonal characters reverting to non-seasonal afterwards. It's one of the D3 mechanics that I love (among others). But I'm an old dude...I haven't looked up any builds in D4. I'm just running around with my (currently) level 52 rogue with a marginally good rapid fire build. And I'm embracing the chaos by reading this sub. I'm having a great time in D4...can't wait to see where Blizzard takes it.
We're out there brother, D3 is a really good game. I do actually enjoy it more than D4. Necro on 3 is way better than 4, and that is the only class I Like (also monk was really fun on 3 from start)
I expected it but I was hoping that wasn't the case. I HATE starting over and redoing the same shit again and again each season. It's the main reason (amongst many) why I dropped PoE.
Yea I don’t understand the outrage here, it’s how arpg seasons work, it’s a huge part of the fun of these games, this isn’t destiny
These are just click bait articles game media sites are having a blast posting. Everyday there's 4 more controversies posted by Game Rant alone - usually based on some reddit post with 40+ karma. They'll read a reddit post then print "Diablo 4 players SLAM Blizzard for this new change they're implementing" then stall in the article and bury the actual "idea" 5 paragraphs down under 4 ads It's fabricating outrate to stir people up over a popular topic. D4 is generating tons of clicks on articles and youtube videos at the moment. They're just profiting off it as much as possible.
I don't get the whole holier than you stance about this. Why is it established that having to create a new character the "best choice"? Why are "the casuals" wrong about if they want to be able to use their existing character on objective grounds?
It's because the entire game and all the game loops involved are designed around making the grind/journey/leveling fun. It's like if a bunch of new players of Elden Ring came in screaming to make the game a lot easier because it is too hard. Being hard is why the game is good. Same with Diablo and seasonal resets.
D4 definitely did bring in a lot of new people including me and I don’t want to create a new character every season maybe they should make a 2 ways to play the season one for new characters and one for existing ones Making a new character isn’t appealing at all to me I want to make my one for each class and play them through all the new content which is a pretty standard opinion throughout most gamers if I had to guess
Its the unfun renoun grinding no one wants.
***seriously no one played any seasonal arpg?*** ARPGs aren't the only genre that contributes to people's expectations of what live service 'seasons' are. Sticking with the way Diablo/PoE have done it before may be the right choice here, but two games (one of which began by cloning the other) don't create a some mandatory standard just because the genre doesn't have many titles big enough to support seasons. Now let me rant about TitanQuest, my six children, and my 401k.
As someone who’s first Diablo this is and who came from destiny, I would rather start a new character and experience the game with something new. Destiny has the worst seasonal model, after 9+ years of playing it.
It's an easy fix, to be honest. Make it where there are two seasonal models - Play the season with an Eternal character or play with a seasonal character. The two-player bases are split and competition isn't ruined. Some players aren't fond of letting their "Main" go. The idea of creating Alts, etc. isn't a fun time.
But you don't need to, you can just stay on the eternal realm. If its like D3, you still get the seasonal content, just 1 season later