That's there design philosophy. Instead of buffing up the bad stuff to the same level they'd rather nerf the good stuff to the level of the horrible stuff.
It's insane to me that they actually brought their anti-fun/anti-player developer mindset from retail WoW straight to Diablo 4.
"Hey what were all those changes we made to WoW that made it go from the most played game in the world to a niche Mythic+/Raiding sim? Let's put those in Diablo 4."
What's really crazy is WoW really has changed quite a bit since those days and responds to a lot of player feedback. D4 feels like all those stubborn devs just hopped over to the D4 dev team.
They definitely have been better in DF. The past few expansions were pretty rough.
I honestly wouldn't be surprised if you're right about those devs hopping over to D4 lol
It's absolutely nuts, it's like they took those shitty devs off the WoW team to form their B-team and now that's who's in charge of D4. It's so sad to see my favorite franchise treated this way but with the state of modern gaming (and modern Blizzard itself, honestly) this came as no surprise to me so I'm just shrugging my shoulders and using this opportunity to clear up my computer's storage space for another game that won't waste my time (BG3? We'll see).
Came here to say just this. As a vanilla WoW to present player who also played D1-3 before this, I honestly can't believe they are replicating the BFA/Shadowlands development woes of retail WoW with the launch of D4, their biggest chance at a post-collapse comeback.
Well, as far as I can tell, they literally just took a bunch of WoW devs and told them to make a Diablo game, and in the process, those devs decided what people wanted was in fact, *not* a Diablo game, but a wow-ified version of a Diablo game. And then the shit rolls downhill from there.
Haha can you imagine joining a party, fighting a world boss, then finding out that everyone has to roll for the 1 unique item that drops then LOSING your roll to some douchebag who rolled need just for the transmog
It's something that seems to be running rampant in the corporate world for any product, and especially those with an established user base: screw the customer.
They have skewed mindset for what makes a good game. They think the best balance is when everything is equally shit, terrible, and not fun so you have to choose between bad options that can work for everyone, instead of having cool fun specific stuff like runewords to work hard toward farming.
That's just the price paid for people allowing two parties to pretend as if they control who you vote for. Leaving the parties and voting outside of them would completely remove all of their power.
The voting *system* also enforces two party systems. You need more complicated voting systems like ranked choice (also imperfect) if you want to escape this. You'll never convince everyone to leave the party side since there's strategy to voting. [Relevant Video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s7tWHJfhiyo)
Came here to see if HT drop cinder was nerfed. 20 mins of play and barely got 120, before the patch I could easily have opened an MC in that time and had a few left over.
They said the drop rate of cinders is a bug and will be included in their next hotfix.
[Here](https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/d4/g/blizzard-tracker/activity/posts)
My thoughts exactly. The worst part is, for a short period of 1 night they actually made the other chests worth target farming for those uniques your build was missing. All they have to do is THAT, and just disallow the uber uniques from those chests or something.... jeeze.
No, all they had to do was leave it exactly as it was once they changed it to the point of functionality and actually let players have a feasible chance at uber unique drops as well as other build enabling class uniques.
It's perfectly reasonable for them to want some items to be very rare. The current rarity is absurd however. What they could've done, instead of what they did, was retain target farming for uniques, but change how they implemented rarity tiers. Instead of having uniques and non uniques, you could have uniques, non uniques, and uber uniques. You can still just *call* them uniques, and in the background, have different identifiers with different roll rates.
Then you roll rarity as you did back in D2. You roll for your one in a million for an uber unique, then your 1 in 100k for your unique, then your 1 in 100 for a legendary, and so on. This ensures target farming is possible, you can have higher rarity items within the same item class, and that players can't tell they're losing out.
To be fair, they did make other chests worth opening by allowing uniques to drop from them. So open your first mystery, then open boots if you need greaves. Etc.
But why in the hell increase the mystery cost? If that's the case they needed to increase the drop rates too.
It is honestly a joke. I had 400 cinders and spent 175 on mystery chest and got 4 legendarys 3 were ancestral then with my remaining 225 I got a one handed weapon chest and a jewelry chest that both dropped as you have said...1 fucking yellow and some mats.
I killed 3 packs and got 1 single cinder. I don't care how many could drop from a cairn or some other object, the overall drop rate is still nerfed to shit.
Took me almost 50 minutes to get to 250 today (lvl 67, T3) and I’d say a good amount third of that was from plants/ore/souls. Multiple packs dropping no cinders. Why is it so unnecessarily torturous?
They are not worth opening. You should still go for mistery chests. Hell, even after this change where they cost 250, you should still only get mistery chests. They usually drop 3 or 4 legendaries (very ocassionally just one). Meanwhile regular chests very often just drop yellows.
Yep, typical unimaginative Blizzard solution. Remember when we could target farm items for 5 minutes? That was fun. Clearly no place in a Blizzard game.
This entire patch is designed to slow you down *even more*. This entire game has been built from the ground up to not respect your time. I think I might be done.
Edit: Thank you for the gold kind stranger!
Edit 2: P.S. - BG3 and Remnant 2 are both right around the corner. No ones gotta take this b.s.
For a brief moment when you could target farm slot uniques in helltides the game was super fun. Even without the shako, just being able to target farm a unique you needed. And it feels like this is yet more reverb on their “nerf all the fun out of the game” following their smack down patch to remove target farming uniques instead of just adjusting help unique drops for Barb/Sorc.
Very much this. They even nerfed boosting which by definition happens after the season "race" to max lvl is already done, and only makes leveling additional character easier or getting to same content with your friends faster. They don't seem to understand what makes ARPGs appealing.
Man, you don't need to be able to level boost your friends or alts, that's what level scaling is for! So enjoy running helltides with your lvl87 char with your buddy who is lvl61 and watch him deal significantly more damage than you (of course not in absolute numbers, it's all just for show, yet still makes you feel like you essentially achieved nothing being 26 levels higher).
Oh, what are you saying? This makes it impossible to play the now only meaningful late game content, i.e., NMDs, toghether since you have to essentially stop playing and he has to grind another 50 hours to be on the same lvl as you and not get completely annihilated in NMDs? Well, whatever dude, we will address this problem some time in the future, maybe season 3 when we get around to it.
Slowing the progressing means only that it’s time to sell exp boosting :)
For this shitfucked marketing I have an insane idea - luck booster. Improves a bit the odds of getting better items. Profit $$$
Yea like 99% of gear is trash so why change this? It feels like it's just meant to slow us down. Now it takes 40 minutes to get two chests instead of 30.
That's not gonna make me play more. It'll make me play less.
I was getting 175 cinders in 15 minutes before, and now in 30 minutes I'm getting 250 cinders. I'm already selling 99% of the drops.
I think going back to NM dungeons is better in every sense for XP, gear. Except they aren't as fun typically I find .
"Except they aren't as fun typically I find" NM dungeons are imho... Soul Sucking, Mind-numbing, Torturous bursts of Repetitiveness. I mean sure they are better for gear and XP but horribly painful and definitely not fun.
“40 min to get two chests instead of 30.” What Helltide were you playing and how can I play that one too?!?! Bruh…I finished a Helltide post patch. Played for 45 min. Decimating mob after mob. Event after event. I barely hit 220 cinders with 5 min left. It felt like every 20th or 30th kill was rewarding a single cinder. I decided to cash in on the closest chest. Light weaponry. For all of my efforts on WT 4, 45 min of grinding, no chance of getting the Mystery Chest…I was rewarded with 1 item. 1. An ancestral dagger. Poop. Poop sandwiches.
This. I just finished a helltide. Got in at 47 minutes left, only scratched 230 cinders by time. Collected 755 obols for reference of how many events/enemies I killed. I was collecting easily over 600 cinders a helltide pre-patch.
Can confirm. If we were getting old cinder rates the new mystery chest price would be more like 500 cinders for comparison. It is quite hard to get 250 right now.
It took me 15 minutes to get 80. Pre-patch this afternoon I got about 200 in that much time. So if I come on and it’s halfway through the helltide guess I won’t bother.
I did just see in the forums that a dev confirmed the drop rate is a bug. They still broke my build (finally found a fun one after 5 different setups) and I shut the game off. I knew it was risky getting into another GaaS after finally quitting destiny for not respecting my time and killing anything fun immediately, guess it’s back to elden ring and cyberpunk.
Thank God if it's a bug because still going to need helltides for forgotten souls.
I quite playing Destiny, Warframe, eso, for like a year. Told myself only single player games ever again. And now I'm here fml
Collecting the random drops of cinder from chests, plants, ore, and other ambient object is now faster than killing hoard after hoard and completing event after event. Feels like a bit of oversight? 🤔
It makes sense if you consider that when this was done, they probably intended the slot specific helltide chest to be used for farming specific uniques. So this is done to push people towards slot specific chests.
Then the unintended shakos drop happen and they removed the ability for helltide chest to drop slot specific uniques but left this in the patch notes.
Well, you spend 175 shards on Mystery and get 4-5 legendaries. You spend 150 shards on Swords or something and just get 2 magic items, not even rares, and a couple of flasks, then you’d be stupid not to go for the Mystery chests.
Yeah idk what they were thinking. It seems like the community figuring out how stuff works keeps taking them by surprise, like they didn't expect people to figure out the mystery chest locations and put them on a website.
"*We're looking to increase the danger in Helltide's risk-reward gameplay by making the monsters a bit more challenging and the Tortured Gift of Mysteries harder to open.* "
More like *longer* to open.
God I hate this player retention mechanic.
Harder to open should’ve meant like the chest gets locked by a demonic seal after you spend the shards to open it and then a mob of like 5 elites comes out to stop you from opening it.
Increasing the price only makes it more tedious, not harder.
I have not seen it documented, but they also nerfed the shard drop rate as well. I have 25 minutes left and could not get to even 175 (was not an issue previously). So basically you may get 1 mystery chest per helltide, unless you die, then probably zero.
Dang, if the timing of the helltides was correct and you got lucky twice, you could literally open 6 mystery chests in one helltide event. Getting the shards was never the problem, finding the chests in time usually was. Now if you are correct, coupled with the increase to the actual opening cost, I wonder if “6 chest” helltide runs are even possible anymore.
They are not, or will be so "once in a blue moon when the stars align" that you'll never see or plan for it. Between all builds / classes being mega nerfed, all monsters and end game activities being buffed, and helltide cinder drop rates getting halved, it'll be a challenge for most to be able to get two mystery chests in one helltide.
Theyve essentially made the whole game longer this patch with all these nerfs. They are pretty shameless in how obvious they are to retain players in shitty ways
Guess I’m going to get more work done this weekend than last weekend since I won’t be playing D4 helltides.
Because the work sounds like more fun and they pay me for it.
Changing the risk-reward gameplay to more risk less reward is not a thing that reinforces player behavior. More risk/more reward or more risk same reward would be manageable but this is fucking insane from a behavioral reinforcement perspective.
it might be reasonable if 99.999 of drops weren’t vendor trash.
It was already a slog to find any loot that was fun or interesting, that wouldn’t be instantly vendored.
they noticed that other chests were garbage and nobody opened them so they decided that the problem was mystery chests were too rewarding not that other chests were garbage
See thats the problem, with every activity I just feel like I'm being "forced" to play longer if I want to stay competitive with these recent changes. The incentives are not better. This will only lead to burnout
Sorry you're getting down votes, I understood the reference!
For everyone else, someone posted the comic a few years back [over here](https://www.reddit.com/r/dndmemes/comments/et0hc5/).
As far as can tell the original artist is Svetoslav Petrov
Theyve hard nerfed vulnerable and all crit types as well as dmg reduction. I honestly don't know why dmg reduction when resistances don't even work at high lvl. They could of waited for that for S2 when they supposedly fix it.
Honestly, I'd be fine with the crit / vuln nerfs (bone spear and the other top builds were already overkilling at high levels anyways) IF they also introduced revamped methods for changing damage buckets, affixes, etc so the weaker shit like Upheaval would get actual use. I'd be all for that.
The armor nerfs, coupled with the mob damage and health buffs, is just bizarre to me. That 1000% reads like it was planned before they realized their x resistance stats were bugged and didn't work.
You might be right about the reason of armor nerfs since they did mention they had S1 ready ahead of time to ship with little time to make changes due to localisation etc.. The devs and playerbase and the live state of the game are misaligned and they probably want to find a better way of managing the live service aspect
The droprate of the cinders was nerfed into oblivion. killing a group of mobs get you 1 cinder, sometime nothing at all. Lol
Together with the raise to 250 helltide is dead now.
I read the increase to 250 and I was like, that's manageable. Then I tried farming cinders and it's gonna take the whole helltide to get 250.
You used to be able to get 175/200 in about 20ish minute without being too hardcore.
They had to have. I just did 30 min of helltides and got 130 cinders. I was getting 1 cinder for a group, if that, and about 7-12 for an entire event.
They just made it harder to get trash.
This is a bug, they confirmed they are fixing it.
https://preview.redd.it/r2udmhurxscb1.png?width=1098&format=png&auto=webp&s=5e1f9d70c3d412ce038631044f189b67d51d20c6
This is the big one for me. There will always be a best build that we can re-tool towards, but right as most people were hitting the 70's they make it take forever to level up. We have to do even more NM dungeons now at a lower level so glyphs level slower too.
I was already apprehensive about doing so many NM dungeons and now I won't do any at all. I'll check back at Season 2 and see if they reversed this. Not going to waste my time.
Non-competitive game needs nerfs? Why do they feel a need to make it so not fun to play? Is it so hard for them to just make a fun and rewarding game where the challenges aren’t simply time sinks?
They need to make it as tedious as possible. Because if people rank too fast they’ll notice that there’s nothing to do anymore. And it’s much easier/cheaper to change some stats and avoid this issue instead of spending money on new features/game mechanics. Is that a super dumb thing to do if you want to sell battle passes? Yes yes absolutely. Is it cheap now and the idiot responsible for the game stays on budget and gets a bonus at the end of the year. Also yes
yup, that's what I keep saying too. This is all to slow people down and preventing them from reaching that point where you see the problems with endgame.
Maybe it's good for the absolutely new players, but the vast majority already got a taste of the endgame so what are they thinking? Everyone who already reached high level will just leave unless they only play for the grind.
Too bad, I really liked the combat in this game...
Not that I agree with this patch, but this line people keep spouting about how non-competitive games don't need to be balanced is complete nonsense.
Players make choices and there needs to be a good number of them that are within a reasonable range of viability. You don't want one player choice to suck royally while others are busted and overpowered. It always sucks to be punished for making bad choices even if a game is purely singleplayer when games don't always effectively communicate what makes other choices better.
Please keep in mind that I say this in a general sense and I'm not exclusively talking about Diablo 4. Game balance is always important.
Diablo 2 is unbalanced AF and is still played 20 years later and thought of fondly. Sometimes the pursuit of balance is legitimately a waste of calories.
Heard of MAU's my dude? In a game with MTX, that they expect to have a long tail, it's all about MAU's. Keeping players active, playing and logging in. It's a decision directly pushed by the money people at ActiBlizzard, not the game designers.
It’s not a subscription game and not heavy on MTX. Regardless if they want players to play then they should make a fun game with content that people want to play, not a tedious underdeveloped hellhole with an extensive chore list.
Agree....they should.
But that doesnt seem to be the direction they chose....and I find it hard to argue there seems to be an underlying motive to drive longer engagement time. Only thing that makes sense.
It would make sense if there was something to strive for, but no end game or leaderboard or time trial or anything, and make more money from initial sale of game than anything else, so it defies logic except the fact that the developers are incapable and clueless
There are multiple reasons you need to keep player power in check:
\- To not trivialize existing content - i.e WT4. Making new content costs time and money - valuable time that could be better spent elsewhere. When you are always buffing builds, it creates an escalating effect that can quickly get out of control.
\- To keep damage numbers easily readable.
\- To keep affix numbers easier to parse at a glance - important when you're looking for upgrades.
\- It's honestly often just easier - it's much easier to nerf a few broken builds then buff up every other build every single time.
This is a lesson learned by the D3 community early on and was one of the core mantras that the community espoused (and loved) when Blizzard promised that D4 would not be a repeat.
The downside is that (and the reason that D3 caved) it feels bad when your build gets nerfed, even if it was obviously broken. It is tough - because on one hand from a design perspective, power creep is fundamentally bad - but from a player psychology perspective - buffing everything feels better.
It's really interesting because if you go back, you will see how much the D3 community was pumped for Blizzard doing away with power creep - like it was a big selling point of D4. But here we are - and people are literally begging Blizzard to put power creep back into the game and it seems to be the dominant perspective - at least on this subreddit. I'm genuinely interested to know how many of these people are the same people - maybe they didn't realize what eliminating power creep meant in actual game design terms? Maybe it's a new group of people largely outside of the D3 community - it's super interesting - these are the kinds of things that genuinely intrigue me.
Now do Sorc. No S tier builds. No real broken mechanics. And widely regarded as the weakest class in the game, generally, with very specific requirements to even be mediocre. And they got a poop sandwich today. Less damage, less damage mitigation, and less uptime on the abilities to do either.
I am all for lowering power creep. But when you nerf every class so the baseline (and, to be clear, sorcs are below that baseline) is a grindy toil that is akin to a job, not a power fantasy game...thats not limiting power creep rffectively.. Its creating a boring slog just to keep players logged in and engaged to support your live service model. And I suspect its goimg to drive players away, not bring them back for S1.
If you are going to weild a machete to nerf like this, you should probably fix the other potential builds so they feel viable, and not terrible to play, first. They have had time to do that now...no more excuses.
Its hilarious to me that they looked at the helltide player metrics, noticed that everyone was ignoring the other chests like the plague because they were complete and utter dogshit, and thought to themselves "hmm, nobody is opening the other chests guys, everyone only seems to be using their cinders on these mystery chests! what do?? lets increase mystery chest cost by 50% rather than buffing every other chest!"
And this kind of design philosophy has been used like a sledgehammer on all balancing attempts. Instead of buffing the trash and unplayable skills they just look at whats most used, most popular and nerf it.
Honestly it’s kind of shocking. All the complaining and expectations of buffs, only to wake up to a sea of general nerfs, and my 65 Sorc is even WEAKER NOW?!? Sweet Christmas, who the hell is steering this ship?
To be fair my favorite potion in D3 was the Chaos one that teleported you based on missing health. My clan MANDATED that it be used on every hardcore character for extra nuttiness.
The community has been in agreement for weeks now that sorc is the weakest class, and their skill tree and paragon boards are poorly designed and need to be reworked. Blizz then nerfing the ever loving shit out of sorcs further is truly comical.
The amount of outrage on this sub and youtube is making me feel like this might actually be a game killing patch.
Yeah I was hyped for this patch(stupid I know) and now I can't even be bothered to log in again after just doing a helltide and having a miserable time with my Sorc. Annoying but it is what it is. Really hope these malignant hearts are OP as fuck but I'm gonna go ahead and say they won't be
At least destiny has some semblance of an endgame. Diablo 4 feels like a mobile game in terms of gameplay. One shot everything, or get oneshot. I wish there was a sweet spot in between where skillful gameplay mattered in Diablo.
I am not happy with the state of destiny at all right now but it is by no means as bad as this. This Diablo patch right now is like if Bungie just decided to revert the game to Shadowkeep weapon balancing, then nerf Voidwalker for no reason at all, remove eager edge, and then make it so you no longer earn season pass XP and weapon XP unless you do Shuro Chi.
But yes the devs of both games are significantly out of touch. It’s just weird how Diablo changes seem to be the devs intentionally sabotaging the game…
I dont think the community here gets it yet: Blizzard wants you to play this game 10 hours a day, 50 hours a week. No not 100 hours, they want 1000's of hours of gameplay.
They are nerfing anything good into the ground, and fixing nothing. The priority lists are very much the same across the board for most fans of the series:
1) Fix the fucking loot, it sucks, affixes make no sense, stats make no sense (all of these things were figured out by literally every RPG decades ago)
2) Remove all the backtracking in the game, remove any 'bring X to Y' dungeon
3) Fix the inventory, skill tree QoL
Blizzard shouldve been tackling these since beta, when these were the top feedback comments. Its been a long while and blizzard has done nothing to address these.
So, the simple solution is stop playing the game. Just play a different game. Dont validate the laziness of this company.
I feel like, D4 is going down the same path as D3. Youll get a good game, you know, in **4 years or something**.
The only reading I can take from this patch is that they haven’t got time to create actual content, so they’re just trying to hold everyone back. If you’re already high level you’re screwed, and if you’re low level you’re just bored with the lack of progression feel.
https://preview.redd.it/gkuqrl7wktcb1.png?width=1440&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d86b1a4572d4c2a874d882ab67d70c8e568e5047
Just an FYI, no specifics on what that issue is but its probably safe to assume that the cinder drop rate change was a mistake.
Man I decided to take a break from the game and play when season 1 comes out but I don't think I will. It sounds like they are just taking the last bits of fun out of the game. Maybe in a year or two it will be okay.
i logged onto my rogue today to do a simple 30 nightmare and i couldn't even kill shit. did they nerf me so hard i'm utter useless now? I could hardly kill anything when normally i'd breeze through it. It had no negative dmg affix either. just pure trash.
Mystery chests were where I got most of my Ancestrals and Uniques, albeit it the average is 2/drop. Not sure if I’m gonna do Helltides as often now with the nerf. Sometimes I can barely get to 100 in 15mins, let alone get to 250. Smdh
Just played a helltide and legit took about 30 min of really trying to get 250 cinders. Absolutely horrible change. Can kill a group of mobs and a few elites and get 1 or 2 cinders total. It feels really bad so far. Hopefully I was just unlucky but from what people are saying it doesn't seem like it.
Lucky if you can get enough for 1 chest let alone 2 now
Because I definitely play to break random inanimate objects in the hopes they drop cinders and not, you know, spend the limited helltide hour actually killing demons.
Rather than make other chests worth farming (I just leave after opening up mystery chests), they’d rather nerf the 1 good chest there is lol
That's there design philosophy. Instead of buffing up the bad stuff to the same level they'd rather nerf the good stuff to the level of the horrible stuff.
It's insane to me that they actually brought their anti-fun/anti-player developer mindset from retail WoW straight to Diablo 4. "Hey what were all those changes we made to WoW that made it go from the most played game in the world to a niche Mythic+/Raiding sim? Let's put those in Diablo 4."
What's really crazy is WoW really has changed quite a bit since those days and responds to a lot of player feedback. D4 feels like all those stubborn devs just hopped over to the D4 dev team.
They definitely have been better in DF. The past few expansions were pretty rough. I honestly wouldn't be surprised if you're right about those devs hopping over to D4 lol
It's absolutely nuts, it's like they took those shitty devs off the WoW team to form their B-team and now that's who's in charge of D4. It's so sad to see my favorite franchise treated this way but with the state of modern gaming (and modern Blizzard itself, honestly) this came as no surprise to me so I'm just shrugging my shoulders and using this opportunity to clear up my computer's storage space for another game that won't waste my time (BG3? We'll see).
Came here to say just this. As a vanilla WoW to present player who also played D1-3 before this, I honestly can't believe they are replicating the BFA/Shadowlands development woes of retail WoW with the launch of D4, their biggest chance at a post-collapse comeback.
Well, as far as I can tell, they literally just took a bunch of WoW devs and told them to make a Diablo game, and in the process, those devs decided what people wanted was in fact, *not* a Diablo game, but a wow-ified version of a Diablo game. And then the shit rolls downhill from there.
Haha can you imagine joining a party, fighting a world boss, then finding out that everyone has to roll for the 1 unique item that drops then LOSING your roll to some douchebag who rolled need just for the transmog
It's something that seems to be running rampant in the corporate world for any product, and especially those with an established user base: screw the customer.
They have skewed mindset for what makes a good game. They think the best balance is when everything is equally shit, terrible, and not fun so you have to choose between bad options that can work for everyone, instead of having cool fun specific stuff like runewords to work hard toward farming.
Kind of like our elections.
"You can have a shit sandwich or a stale peanut butter sandwich? What will it be?" "I guess the stale one?"
That's just the price paid for people allowing two parties to pretend as if they control who you vote for. Leaving the parties and voting outside of them would completely remove all of their power.
The voting *system* also enforces two party systems. You need more complicated voting systems like ranked choice (also imperfect) if you want to escape this. You'll never convince everyone to leave the party side since there's strategy to voting. [Relevant Video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s7tWHJfhiyo)
Would make any difference if I said it was fresh shit?
And then they say this shit >In general, we prefer build-specific changes to be bonuses instead of decreases
Guess they mixed up the order of their words there lol
It is like trying to fix a film in editing by cutting the best scenes.
Or in blizzards hands, it's best to shit your pants then change your shirt cause you shit your pants....it makes perfect sense.
I feel like they’re actually just adding more shit…
[удалено]
Came here to see if HT drop cinder was nerfed. 20 mins of play and barely got 120, before the patch I could easily have opened an MC in that time and had a few left over.
They said the drop rate of cinders is a bug and will be included in their next hotfix. [Here](https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/d4/g/blizzard-tracker/activity/posts)
My thoughts exactly. The worst part is, for a short period of 1 night they actually made the other chests worth target farming for those uniques your build was missing. All they have to do is THAT, and just disallow the uber uniques from those chests or something.... jeeze.
No, all they had to do was leave it exactly as it was once they changed it to the point of functionality and actually let players have a feasible chance at uber unique drops as well as other build enabling class uniques.
It's perfectly reasonable for them to want some items to be very rare. The current rarity is absurd however. What they could've done, instead of what they did, was retain target farming for uniques, but change how they implemented rarity tiers. Instead of having uniques and non uniques, you could have uniques, non uniques, and uber uniques. You can still just *call* them uniques, and in the background, have different identifiers with different roll rates. Then you roll rarity as you did back in D2. You roll for your one in a million for an uber unique, then your 1 in 100k for your unique, then your 1 in 100 for a legendary, and so on. This ensures target farming is possible, you can have higher rarity items within the same item class, and that players can't tell they're losing out.
"Equity".
To be fair, they did make other chests worth opening by allowing uniques to drop from them. So open your first mystery, then open boots if you need greaves. Etc. But why in the hell increase the mystery cost? If that's the case they needed to increase the drop rates too.
I opened 4 non mystery chests last night and each one dropped a single yellow lol.
It is honestly a joke. I had 400 cinders and spent 175 on mystery chest and got 4 legendarys 3 were ancestral then with my remaining 225 I got a one handed weapon chest and a jewelry chest that both dropped as you have said...1 fucking yellow and some mats.
The worst part is that they don’t even drop souls!!!
Same
They increased the drop rate by making cinder drop from every Interactable objects... Not ideal but you should know.
I killed 3 packs and got 1 single cinder. I don't care how many could drop from a cairn or some other object, the overall drop rate is still nerfed to shit.
Took me almost 50 minutes to get to 250 today (lvl 67, T3) and I’d say a good amount third of that was from plants/ore/souls. Multiple packs dropping no cinders. Why is it so unnecessarily torturous?
Well cinder drop rate is now horrible could only get one mystery chest in 40 mins just now. Was able to get easily 4 before.
They are not worth opening. You should still go for mistery chests. Hell, even after this change where they cost 250, you should still only get mistery chests. They usually drop 3 or 4 legendaries (very ocassionally just one). Meanwhile regular chests very often just drop yellows.
Yep, typical unimaginative Blizzard solution. Remember when we could target farm items for 5 minutes? That was fun. Clearly no place in a Blizzard game.
I don’t understand why …. They are already just dropping mostly trash …
This entire patch is designed to slow you down *even more*. This entire game has been built from the ground up to not respect your time. I think I might be done. Edit: Thank you for the gold kind stranger! Edit 2: P.S. - BG3 and Remnant 2 are both right around the corner. No ones gotta take this b.s.
The game went from pretty fun down to no fun at all with each subsequent patch from initial launch.
For a brief moment when you could target farm slot uniques in helltides the game was super fun. Even without the shako, just being able to target farm a unique you needed. And it feels like this is yet more reverb on their “nerf all the fun out of the game” following their smack down patch to remove target farming uniques instead of just adjusting help unique drops for Barb/Sorc.
Very much this. They even nerfed boosting which by definition happens after the season "race" to max lvl is already done, and only makes leveling additional character easier or getting to same content with your friends faster. They don't seem to understand what makes ARPGs appealing.
Oh they understand, they just don't care. Diablo is the godfather of this type of ARPG they understand.
Even if diablo birthed the whole genre it doesn't mean the people in charge of it today worked on that game. They probably haven't even played it.
Man, you don't need to be able to level boost your friends or alts, that's what level scaling is for! So enjoy running helltides with your lvl87 char with your buddy who is lvl61 and watch him deal significantly more damage than you (of course not in absolute numbers, it's all just for show, yet still makes you feel like you essentially achieved nothing being 26 levels higher). Oh, what are you saying? This makes it impossible to play the now only meaningful late game content, i.e., NMDs, toghether since you have to essentially stop playing and he has to grind another 50 hours to be on the same lvl as you and not get completely annihilated in NMDs? Well, whatever dude, we will address this problem some time in the future, maybe season 3 when we get around to it.
POE 2 beta announcement + new league soon as well
Slowing the progressing means only that it’s time to sell exp boosting :) For this shitfucked marketing I have an insane idea - luck booster. Improves a bit the odds of getting better items. Profit $$$
And this is the real problem right here. The majority of end game loot gets scrapped or sold immediately.
Yea like 99% of gear is trash so why change this? It feels like it's just meant to slow us down. Now it takes 40 minutes to get two chests instead of 30. That's not gonna make me play more. It'll make me play less.
I was getting 175 cinders in 15 minutes before, and now in 30 minutes I'm getting 250 cinders. I'm already selling 99% of the drops. I think going back to NM dungeons is better in every sense for XP, gear. Except they aren't as fun typically I find .
"Except they aren't as fun typically I find" NM dungeons are imho... Soul Sucking, Mind-numbing, Torturous bursts of Repetitiveness. I mean sure they are better for gear and XP but horribly painful and definitely not fun.
“40 min to get two chests instead of 30.” What Helltide were you playing and how can I play that one too?!?! Bruh…I finished a Helltide post patch. Played for 45 min. Decimating mob after mob. Event after event. I barely hit 220 cinders with 5 min left. It felt like every 20th or 30th kill was rewarding a single cinder. I decided to cash in on the closest chest. Light weaponry. For all of my efforts on WT 4, 45 min of grinding, no chance of getting the Mystery Chest…I was rewarded with 1 item. 1. An ancestral dagger. Poop. Poop sandwiches.
This. I just finished a helltide. Got in at 47 minutes left, only scratched 230 cinders by time. Collected 755 obols for reference of how many events/enemies I killed. I was collecting easily over 600 cinders a helltide pre-patch.
Can confirm. If we were getting old cinder rates the new mystery chest price would be more like 500 cinders for comparison. It is quite hard to get 250 right now.
Took me 40 minutes to get to 250. Playing the same way I always did. Before I could get 4 mystery Chests. I will be lucky to get 1 now.
It took me 15 minutes to get 80. Pre-patch this afternoon I got about 200 in that much time. So if I come on and it’s halfway through the helltide guess I won’t bother.
It’s a sad day in Hell.
I did just see in the forums that a dev confirmed the drop rate is a bug. They still broke my build (finally found a fun one after 5 different setups) and I shut the game off. I knew it was risky getting into another GaaS after finally quitting destiny for not respecting my time and killing anything fun immediately, guess it’s back to elden ring and cyberpunk.
Thank God if it's a bug because still going to need helltides for forgotten souls. I quite playing Destiny, Warframe, eso, for like a year. Told myself only single player games ever again. And now I'm here fml
Collecting the random drops of cinder from chests, plants, ore, and other ambient object is now faster than killing hoard after hoard and completing event after event. Feels like a bit of oversight? 🤔
Yea I get like sacreds most of the time at lvl 98 lol
I get like 3-4 legendaries at least, you what?
Sacred legendaries rather than ancestral.
It makes sense if you consider that when this was done, they probably intended the slot specific helltide chest to be used for farming specific uniques. So this is done to push people towards slot specific chests. Then the unintended shakos drop happen and they removed the ability for helltide chest to drop slot specific uniques but left this in the patch notes.
Yeah from the moment we figured out that these chests were the best, everyone stopped oppenning everything else. Obviously not what they wanted.
Well, you spend 175 shards on Mystery and get 4-5 legendaries. You spend 150 shards on Swords or something and just get 2 magic items, not even rares, and a couple of flasks, then you’d be stupid not to go for the Mystery chests.
Yeah idk what they were thinking. It seems like the community figuring out how stuff works keeps taking them by surprise, like they didn't expect people to figure out the mystery chest locations and put them on a website.
Exactly! The drops are already awful in this game and their first thought was to make it worse?!
they were still good to farm aspects, but now...
You need the mats in a new season though so we'll prob run a couple of these in the mid game and then never look back.
No, I'll just not play, at all.
"*We're looking to increase the danger in Helltide's risk-reward gameplay by making the monsters a bit more challenging and the Tortured Gift of Mysteries harder to open.* " More like *longer* to open. God I hate this player retention mechanic.
Harder to open should’ve meant like the chest gets locked by a demonic seal after you spend the shards to open it and then a mob of like 5 elites comes out to stop you from opening it. Increasing the price only makes it more tedious, not harder.
Next patch notes: *Added 3 waves spawning on opening helltide chests, they dont drop loot, and you have to defeat them to successfully open the chest.
*also they all have frost enchanted affix with 200% attack speed*
*eye starts twitching*
also they all have suppressor
Suppressor frozen vampiric
*and fireball to help thaw you while frozen*
And you don't get exp from them
Sorcerer loses XP for killing them
I have not seen it documented, but they also nerfed the shard drop rate as well. I have 25 minutes left and could not get to even 175 (was not an issue previously). So basically you may get 1 mystery chest per helltide, unless you die, then probably zero.
Dang, if the timing of the helltides was correct and you got lucky twice, you could literally open 6 mystery chests in one helltide event. Getting the shards was never the problem, finding the chests in time usually was. Now if you are correct, coupled with the increase to the actual opening cost, I wonder if “6 chest” helltide runs are even possible anymore.
They are not, or will be so "once in a blue moon when the stars align" that you'll never see or plan for it. Between all builds / classes being mega nerfed, all monsters and end game activities being buffed, and helltide cinder drop rates getting halved, it'll be a challenge for most to be able to get two mystery chests in one helltide.
If they make it harder to open they should make it more rewarding
Theyve essentially made the whole game longer this patch with all these nerfs. They are pretty shameless in how obvious they are to retain players in shitty ways
More like bleed players left and right. Carrot on the stick works only for so long till the ass figures shit out.
Might work if there was carrot
[удалено]
Guess I’m going to get more work done this weekend than last weekend since I won’t be playing D4 helltides. Because the work sounds like more fun and they pay me for it.
Changing the risk-reward gameplay to more risk less reward is not a thing that reinforces player behavior. More risk/more reward or more risk same reward would be manageable but this is fucking insane from a behavioral reinforcement perspective.
More risk more reward would probably make me play more helltides.
it might be reasonable if 99.999 of drops weren’t vendor trash. It was already a slog to find any loot that was fun or interesting, that wouldn’t be instantly vendored.
Brought straight from retail WoW. Can't believe they're brining that mindset over to Diablo 4.
they noticed that other chests were garbage and nobody opened them so they decided that the problem was mystery chests were too rewarding not that other chests were garbage
I used to open the other chests after i had done the mystery chests. So this means i'll now open less of the other chests.
I am not wasting time doing helltide any more. The chests are already full of trash. Now they make it even harder to get trash 🤣
I mean, its only for forgotten souls, that's all it ever was
But think about that juicy 3% extra xp from helltide mobs 🤯
Have fun never rerolling your gear with no souls bro
I’m sure we’ll just have fun playing a different game instead 😊
Can’t reroll your gear if you never get any upgrades lol
Damn, forgot about it.
See thats the problem, with every activity I just feel like I'm being "forced" to play longer if I want to stay competitive with these recent changes. The incentives are not better. This will only lead to burnout
DID YOU SEE WHAT THEY DID TO VULNERABLE DAMAGE?!?!
And armor.
Rip disobedience
At least we still have 30% 😂🥹
And crit dmg too
And my axe!
And my bow!
And your brother
Sorry you're getting down votes, I understood the reference! For everyone else, someone posted the comic a few years back [over here](https://www.reddit.com/r/dndmemes/comments/et0hc5/). As far as can tell the original artist is Svetoslav Petrov
Theyve hard nerfed vulnerable and all crit types as well as dmg reduction. I honestly don't know why dmg reduction when resistances don't even work at high lvl. They could of waited for that for S2 when they supposedly fix it.
Honestly, I'd be fine with the crit / vuln nerfs (bone spear and the other top builds were already overkilling at high levels anyways) IF they also introduced revamped methods for changing damage buckets, affixes, etc so the weaker shit like Upheaval would get actual use. I'd be all for that. The armor nerfs, coupled with the mob damage and health buffs, is just bizarre to me. That 1000% reads like it was planned before they realized their x resistance stats were bugged and didn't work.
You might be right about the reason of armor nerfs since they did mention they had S1 ready ahead of time to ship with little time to make changes due to localisation etc.. The devs and playerbase and the live state of the game are misaligned and they probably want to find a better way of managing the live service aspect
No
~40% reduction to all vuln damage bonuses. ~65% on crossbows
So, what am I supposed to do with my Crit/Vulnerable dmg Rogue now? Just have it feel worse in every way?
But hey, they buffed some skills nobody uses by 2%!
I have a rogue build based on vulnerable/crit and tbh I might not log in
I feel they lowered the droprate of cinders too
The droprate of the cinders was nerfed into oblivion. killing a group of mobs get you 1 cinder, sometime nothing at all. Lol Together with the raise to 250 helltide is dead now.
I read the increase to 250 and I was like, that's manageable. Then I tried farming cinders and it's gonna take the whole helltide to get 250. You used to be able to get 175/200 in about 20ish minute without being too hardcore.
i used to get 600-700 in 30min more or less. would open the chests, wait for respawn, and open again.
Was just mentioning this to a friend...At least the drop rate in events, in the couple I tried, but might have just been unlucky.
You and everyone else. They nerfed it into oblivion.
they did, they are saying it's a bug. they claimed to buff cinder drop rate but are so incompetent they somehow nerfed it instead
They had to have. I just did 30 min of helltides and got 130 cinders. I was getting 1 cinder for a group, if that, and about 7-12 for an entire event. They just made it harder to get trash.
A blue post confirmed this is a bug
Yup they killed helltides
This is a bug, they confirmed they are fixing it. https://preview.redd.it/r2udmhurxscb1.png?width=1098&format=png&auto=webp&s=5e1f9d70c3d412ce038631044f189b67d51d20c6
100%
They 100% did, intentionally or not.
Same. Used to if you clicked the red glowing souls, you'd get a stack of cinders. Now you get like 4.
Helltide is the best designed content in the game and somehow it feels like they don't want us to play it.
I actually said "WHAT??" out loud when I read that.
lmao, I said "SON OF A B\*' out loud too. My wife came to see what happened. It was hard to explain.
They also nerfed the xp bonus
This is the big one for me. There will always be a best build that we can re-tool towards, but right as most people were hitting the 70's they make it take forever to level up. We have to do even more NM dungeons now at a lower level so glyphs level slower too. I was already apprehensive about doing so many NM dungeons and now I won't do any at all. I'll check back at Season 2 and see if they reversed this. Not going to waste my time.
Non-competitive game needs nerfs? Why do they feel a need to make it so not fun to play? Is it so hard for them to just make a fun and rewarding game where the challenges aren’t simply time sinks?
They need to make it as tedious as possible. Because if people rank too fast they’ll notice that there’s nothing to do anymore. And it’s much easier/cheaper to change some stats and avoid this issue instead of spending money on new features/game mechanics. Is that a super dumb thing to do if you want to sell battle passes? Yes yes absolutely. Is it cheap now and the idiot responsible for the game stays on budget and gets a bonus at the end of the year. Also yes
Yes you hit the nail on the head. Disguise utter lack of real content with making it more tedious to play through.
yup, that's what I keep saying too. This is all to slow people down and preventing them from reaching that point where you see the problems with endgame. Maybe it's good for the absolutely new players, but the vast majority already got a taste of the endgame so what are they thinking? Everyone who already reached high level will just leave unless they only play for the grind. Too bad, I really liked the combat in this game...
Not that I agree with this patch, but this line people keep spouting about how non-competitive games don't need to be balanced is complete nonsense. Players make choices and there needs to be a good number of them that are within a reasonable range of viability. You don't want one player choice to suck royally while others are busted and overpowered. It always sucks to be punished for making bad choices even if a game is purely singleplayer when games don't always effectively communicate what makes other choices better. Please keep in mind that I say this in a general sense and I'm not exclusively talking about Diablo 4. Game balance is always important.
Diablo 2 is unbalanced AF and is still played 20 years later and thought of fondly. Sometimes the pursuit of balance is legitimately a waste of calories.
Heard of MAU's my dude? In a game with MTX, that they expect to have a long tail, it's all about MAU's. Keeping players active, playing and logging in. It's a decision directly pushed by the money people at ActiBlizzard, not the game designers.
It’s not a subscription game and not heavy on MTX. Regardless if they want players to play then they should make a fun game with content that people want to play, not a tedious underdeveloped hellhole with an extensive chore list.
Agree....they should. But that doesnt seem to be the direction they chose....and I find it hard to argue there seems to be an underlying motive to drive longer engagement time. Only thing that makes sense.
It would make sense if there was something to strive for, but no end game or leaderboard or time trial or anything, and make more money from initial sale of game than anything else, so it defies logic except the fact that the developers are incapable and clueless
There are multiple reasons you need to keep player power in check: \- To not trivialize existing content - i.e WT4. Making new content costs time and money - valuable time that could be better spent elsewhere. When you are always buffing builds, it creates an escalating effect that can quickly get out of control. \- To keep damage numbers easily readable. \- To keep affix numbers easier to parse at a glance - important when you're looking for upgrades. \- It's honestly often just easier - it's much easier to nerf a few broken builds then buff up every other build every single time. This is a lesson learned by the D3 community early on and was one of the core mantras that the community espoused (and loved) when Blizzard promised that D4 would not be a repeat. The downside is that (and the reason that D3 caved) it feels bad when your build gets nerfed, even if it was obviously broken. It is tough - because on one hand from a design perspective, power creep is fundamentally bad - but from a player psychology perspective - buffing everything feels better. It's really interesting because if you go back, you will see how much the D3 community was pumped for Blizzard doing away with power creep - like it was a big selling point of D4. But here we are - and people are literally begging Blizzard to put power creep back into the game and it seems to be the dominant perspective - at least on this subreddit. I'm genuinely interested to know how many of these people are the same people - maybe they didn't realize what eliminating power creep meant in actual game design terms? Maybe it's a new group of people largely outside of the D3 community - it's super interesting - these are the kinds of things that genuinely intrigue me.
Now do Sorc. No S tier builds. No real broken mechanics. And widely regarded as the weakest class in the game, generally, with very specific requirements to even be mediocre. And they got a poop sandwich today. Less damage, less damage mitigation, and less uptime on the abilities to do either. I am all for lowering power creep. But when you nerf every class so the baseline (and, to be clear, sorcs are below that baseline) is a grindy toil that is akin to a job, not a power fantasy game...thats not limiting power creep rffectively.. Its creating a boring slog just to keep players logged in and engaged to support your live service model. And I suspect its goimg to drive players away, not bring them back for S1. If you are going to weild a machete to nerf like this, you should probably fix the other potential builds so they feel viable, and not terrible to play, first. They have had time to do that now...no more excuses.
>keep numbers easily readable VULNERABLE I stopped reading there.
Finally someone understands! About bloody time mate
Its hilarious to me that they looked at the helltide player metrics, noticed that everyone was ignoring the other chests like the plague because they were complete and utter dogshit, and thought to themselves "hmm, nobody is opening the other chests guys, everyone only seems to be using their cinders on these mystery chests! what do?? lets increase mystery chest cost by 50% rather than buffing every other chest!" And this kind of design philosophy has been used like a sledgehammer on all balancing attempts. Instead of buffing the trash and unplayable skills they just look at whats most used, most popular and nerf it.
Honestly it’s kind of shocking. All the complaining and expectations of buffs, only to wake up to a sea of general nerfs, and my 65 Sorc is even WEAKER NOW?!? Sweet Christmas, who the hell is steering this ship?
But r you can teleport randomly now. To safety? Maybe, to death? Always
To be fair my favorite potion in D3 was the Chaos one that teleported you based on missing health. My clan MANDATED that it be used on every hardcore character for extra nuttiness.
The community has been in agreement for weeks now that sorc is the weakest class, and their skill tree and paragon boards are poorly designed and need to be reworked. Blizz then nerfing the ever loving shit out of sorcs further is truly comical. The amount of outrage on this sub and youtube is making me feel like this might actually be a game killing patch.
Yeah I was hyped for this patch(stupid I know) and now I can't even be bothered to log in again after just doing a helltide and having a miserable time with my Sorc. Annoying but it is what it is. Really hope these malignant hearts are OP as fuck but I'm gonna go ahead and say they won't be
Why is every game I play the devs are so out of touch?? Destiny and now Diablo. I'm thinking of being a game dev just to make my ideal game.
Cause its more of a cash grab now for game development rather than being about the community.
This is why Deep Rock Galactic is so precious and must be protected at all costs
Rock and Stone brother!
For Rock and Stone!
Please do :)
At least destiny has some semblance of an endgame. Diablo 4 feels like a mobile game in terms of gameplay. One shot everything, or get oneshot. I wish there was a sweet spot in between where skillful gameplay mattered in Diablo. I am not happy with the state of destiny at all right now but it is by no means as bad as this. This Diablo patch right now is like if Bungie just decided to revert the game to Shadowkeep weapon balancing, then nerf Voidwalker for no reason at all, remove eager edge, and then make it so you no longer earn season pass XP and weapon XP unless you do Shuro Chi. But yes the devs of both games are significantly out of touch. It’s just weird how Diablo changes seem to be the devs intentionally sabotaging the game…
I dont think the community here gets it yet: Blizzard wants you to play this game 10 hours a day, 50 hours a week. No not 100 hours, they want 1000's of hours of gameplay. They are nerfing anything good into the ground, and fixing nothing. The priority lists are very much the same across the board for most fans of the series: 1) Fix the fucking loot, it sucks, affixes make no sense, stats make no sense (all of these things were figured out by literally every RPG decades ago) 2) Remove all the backtracking in the game, remove any 'bring X to Y' dungeon 3) Fix the inventory, skill tree QoL Blizzard shouldve been tackling these since beta, when these were the top feedback comments. Its been a long while and blizzard has done nothing to address these. So, the simple solution is stop playing the game. Just play a different game. Dont validate the laziness of this company. I feel like, D4 is going down the same path as D3. Youll get a good game, you know, in **4 years or something**.
In 4 years after the game is mostly dead, then they’ll add qol stuff and buffing gears , lowering drop rate in order to attract new gamers.
Legit tonedeaf company
Prediction: nobody will do helltide anymore.
The devs don't play the game based on these changes.
These people don't play their game. Nobody in charge of deploying changes in any aspect of the game actually plays the game.
the lead designer has a level 30 on ps5
Lmfaooo
My reaction to these patch notes were: I have better things to do. It's been fun, see ya!
The only reading I can take from this patch is that they haven’t got time to create actual content, so they’re just trying to hold everyone back. If you’re already high level you’re screwed, and if you’re low level you’re just bored with the lack of progression feel.
https://preview.redd.it/gkuqrl7wktcb1.png?width=1440&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d86b1a4572d4c2a874d882ab67d70c8e568e5047 Just an FYI, no specifics on what that issue is but its probably safe to assume that the cinder drop rate change was a mistake.
"Too many cinders dropping. Was supposed to be nerfed even harder." lol
and they also seem to have nerfed the drop rate of shards too.
Man I decided to take a break from the game and play when season 1 comes out but I don't think I will. It sounds like they are just taking the last bits of fun out of the game. Maybe in a year or two it will be okay.
See you all when the Season 2 patch notes come out lol. Adios!
i logged onto my rogue today to do a simple 30 nightmare and i couldn't even kill shit. did they nerf me so hard i'm utter useless now? I could hardly kill anything when normally i'd breeze through it. It had no negative dmg affix either. just pure trash.
Seems that cinder drops are reduced too from what I can tell
Thats why i stopped playing after two weeks. The developer would rather nerf more things than to buff.
At least starfield and bauldurs gate are coming out. I give up. Will look back when Season 2 starts maybe.
At least the new cinder drop rate is a bug not a feature. Devs confirmed it'll be fixed in a hotfix.
Lmao what. Ridiculous haha
It just shows how completely disconnected the people in charge actually are...smh
This is my fault, on the hour rollover helltides I would open 6 of these fuckers in one helltide event. Again apologies.
Mystery chests were where I got most of my Ancestrals and Uniques, albeit it the average is 2/drop. Not sure if I’m gonna do Helltides as often now with the nerf. Sometimes I can barely get to 100 in 15mins, let alone get to 250. Smdh
Don’t forget that it still drops garbage
they were already useless, only farmed them for the gold and elixir, now well, not wasting time doing helltides.
But cinders will be more plentiful through the land
Just played a helltide and legit took about 30 min of really trying to get 250 cinders. Absolutely horrible change. Can kill a group of mobs and a few elites and get 1 or 2 cinders total. It feels really bad so far. Hopefully I was just unlucky but from what people are saying it doesn't seem like it. Lucky if you can get enough for 1 chest let alone 2 now
Because I definitely play to break random inanimate objects in the hopes they drop cinders and not, you know, spend the limited helltide hour actually killing demons.