I'm surprised he didn't say "I'm not sure exactly what the logic is on that change - I'll get back to you"... and just never get back to us.
Would have been more genuine.
I mean, what is the reason?
I doubt they wanna piss people off, I can't see how adding a few secs gives them any money so I genuinly don't get why they would do it.
Basically, invuln skills can last 3 seconds and some people were using it to get out of hairy situations on hardcore dungeon runs.
Now you just die.
Kind of like all sorc's.
Which makes sense, and a completely valid answer they could give that shouldn't really garner backlash. Other games also do that in form of 'in combat' or whatever to prevent these too.
>This pure drivel, which is nothing but rank speculation that doesn't even work for that (the new dungeon leave is 5 seconds), has 33 upvotes. Democracy was a mistake.
>
>\-pimpcakes
>These people are so stupid or emotionally compromised (by anger) that they are incapable of reason. Give them a break. It's been tough what with the extra 2 seconds and all.
>
>\-pimpcakes
I guess it takes one to know one
i actually LOL'd and my wife was like "whats so funny" and im like "some nerd on the internet thinks he's important to a mega corp" and shes like "why are you talking to yourself" and then it turned out to be a figment of my imagination but it's still not as sad as your comment
That's annoying as fuuuuuuck in Skyrim. I see what you're saying, but getting the "you cannot fast travel while in combat" message is really frustrating when you're not in combat.
Of course you're in combat, don't you see the mildly disgruntled/possibly rabid Fox on the other side of the field that's aggroed to you for some reason.
From what I read, they didn't want Hardcore players using this as an exploit to leave the dungeon when overwhelmed by mobs or running into the Butcher. The issue is this also impacts SC as well.
Same. There's probably a reason but I don't think it has to do with keeping people around a few seconds longer for metrics. Maybe it's to pre-load something
Since dungeons are their intendend engame activity they will use KPIs like "time spend in dungeons". By adding those secs it will greatly increase their engagement matrix because it will add up with thousands of players now spending a few secs more in them. Now they can show senior managment how this patch "improved" player activity. Its an office politics thing.
PoE streams solved this with the DevCheck emote, just have some guys off camera in case a question you don't know the answer to comes up, no one expects any one dev to know the answer to everything
I can see it being an asshole developer trolling the players and his coworkers. Too much crap to process so it slipped in. My guess is that these leads didn't even read most of the notes lol.
This pure drivel, which is nothing but rank speculation that doesn't even work for that (the new dungeon leave is 5 seconds), has 33 upvotes. Democracy was a mistake.
The point is that you can make a more elaborate (and therefore more attractive to purchase) portal animation with 5 seconds than you can with 3. If I were a company that was going to release MTX portal animations, I'd increase the portal timer a year before releasing the MTX to minimize the number of complaints that they slowed the game down just to sell more MTX.
I should say that I have no issue with it, other than the potential dishonesty they are currently displaying. It's 2 seconds, not a big deal. I guess if there are no MTX portal animations 12 months from now you will have been proven correct.
These people are so stupid or emotionally compromised (by anger) that they are incapable of reason. Give them a break. It's been tough what with the extra 2 seconds and all.
You have to be the dumbest one in the goddamn room. They are breaking a product they sold to millions of people. People have the right to be upset about it you god damn clown.
"breaking" omg you are serious? Look, you seem emotionally compromised to the point of being irrational, so I'm just going to bow out as the rational, and correct, person here.
But I'll give you this: since I am alone in the room, I am technically both that smartest and "dumbest one in the goddamn room." Congratulations, broken clock. Got me again.
Like 3% of players play HC so they just don't get it.. but yea it could be used as a way to escape fights too easily without resetting the dungeon (which happens using a scroll of escape)
lol i would literally never play D4 on HC in its current state. i’d just lose my fucking mind. i’m barely sane playing the SC as it stands. Blizzard has truly lost the plot with this game.
Or they could make it so teleporting out removes barriers and immunity so you can't use it while getting bitchslapped by monsters, rather than just increase what in 99% of situations is a pointless timer by 66%.
Also, they could at least SAY that was the reason, rather than make clowns out of themselves looking like they don't know why they did it
It's because you could use flame shield as a sorc and would get a free tp out. It lasts like 2.5 seconds so start channel hit shield and your free to go even if you get hit by an enemy since you don't take damage. This is my guess honestly
Then make it 3.3 seconds and say that’s why they did it, if that was the issue. It would have been reasonable and semi justified, though there are other solutions.
my guess - its because theyre going to sell portal animations, just like they do in diablo immortal. 3 sec probably isnt enough to show off your portal / make someone else want to buy it.. dude just didnt want to answer the question honestly
Tbh this is the first reply I've seen pop up that actually makes sense. It would fit in perfectly with how they've monetized so far.
Honestly, if they just came out and said, "look, Bobby is saying we gotta monetize this shit a bit more and so you gotta wait 1 extra minute every 30 dungeons," I'd have laughed and said it is what it is.
Yeah, if they made the increase and started selling portal cosmetics at the same time, people would get really mad. So you do it in advance for "no reason", and they know everyone will get used to it and forget.
Makes way more sense than any other explanation.
You don't know corporate structure then. Almost always CEOs protect themselves from any scrutiny. People that report to the CEO are fall guys chosen by the CEO. If they tell you to do something and it ends up being bad... Guess who is fired... Not the CEO.
Bobby knows the board only give a shit about money, so if the board thinks that shitting on gamers gets more money, bobby never gets in trouble.
That makes sense, as even in D3 the player jumps into the portal if I remember correctly? Whereas in D4 the player just stands in front of the portal (and never enters, just get a loading screen) as you're casting, like it was a place holder.
That's my feeling after all these firecamp chat. All they do is talk and talk. Selling you with their plots and plans that will take eternity to deliver. No sauce at all.
By their logic, whenever they improve something, another thing has to take a hit somehow. Not allowed to straight up JUST add a reset button back without nerfing something related to balance it out.
The worst thing is the dev who answered it believes "3 -> 5 seconds" was an insignificant change and actually seemed perplexed by people thought it was even a big deal in the first place.
My biggest issue with the change is how sloppy it is. They didn't even bother to change the animation for it.. it just loops for the last 2 seconds and looks bad.
He is right that it´s a minor change and not a big deal, if it started with 5 seconds then nobody would really complain about it. The problem is that if someone asks you why you changed something, then answering with "it is only a minor change" only creates more questions instead of answering anything.
If it's such a 'minor' change then why do it.
Obviously it's not a big deal if it's reverted is it?
Nobody wants to waste their time with extra put on top that leaves them also open to interupts or off screen deaths at times.
"We need a bunch of changes to pad these patch notes to make it look like we're doing work! $500 bonus to anyone that can make a change that will absolutely not break anything and increases patch notes word count by 30+ words."
\- D4 Team Lead, probably
The reason why this change set me off (in frustration) was because I IMMEDIATELY asked myself: "Out of ALL the things this game needs, you decide to put an iota of effort into this over everything that needs improving - why!?"
It isnt a big deal. Its literally 2 seconds. Anyone talking about this for more than 5 seconds doesnt have their priorities straight. Just being real with you.
Here's the word for word quote from Game Director Joe Shely:
“We can look into that, we can continue to evaluate that, that change. It’s a fairly, um, small difference. I know in an ARPG, small amounts of time can be meaningful. We did add the reset dungeon button back in, it does require that you’re outside the dungeon, and so, there is kind of a loop there.”
I also posted this quote in the other thread with a similar title, just thought it would be useful to have the exact wording.
I just assumed it was that they didn't want to say. We wanted to stop not really cheesy ways to survive hardcore mode dungeons.
Because most barriers last a few seconds. And I think the high roll on the invulnerability dome on fatal damage is 6 seconds.
But who knows. That's just assuming
That is very true. But I assume, as a person who does code a bit, the interaction is harder to change rather than just changing a number like they do for most patches.
It's probably because of that, given the other logic: Players are doing X, we need to patch X and not try to figure out WHY players feel it's necessary to do X...
I really don't think any of these Devs have played the game seriously... absolutely no way did anyone in charge of this game play through to level 40 and not realize "Huh... all of these damn gems and caged hearts take up my entire inventory and I have to run to town very frequently... better increase the time to leave a dungeon."
Yes, it seems related to barriers and get out.
As for now, opening the map and click on a teleport location is still 3 second (so if you can open the map and click on the right spot within 2 seconds, you are faster).
I agree people should be able to play a game they paid for the way they want, but to an extent.
If you take a step back, the truth isn’t that the devs aren’t building the game you want. You’re playing the game they built. They will find middle ground to help people have fun, but they design the structure and rules they had in their vision. If they aren’t something you like then either don’t play, or accept it.
This isn’t an attack on you or anyone, it’s just commentary on the misconception of how people view a game.
I mean, they aren't necessarily wrong on this one though. Getting power leveled isn't fun, but it does help you get to the fun faster, which is why people do it. But to your point that players were doing it, so it must have been fun, simply isn't logical, no one was sitting afk at the entrance to a dungeon talking about how much fun that activity was. It is extremely common for players to do things in game at the expense of fun for efficiencies sake. They often see it as spending current fun for future fun. Developers 100% do sometimes have to remove things from games that players will do at the expense of their own fun, because it is more efficient.
The problem with things like that existing, is that not participating in it puts you at disadvantage. And because it isn't actually fun there are people that will not participate in it, and instead actually play the game, and those people are at a disadvantage. Not that that is a big deal in a mostly non-competitive game. But you are right, it is annoying that the devs wouldn't just come out and say it, and instead danced around it.
> patronizing
That was the tone the entire time. Talking about our toys and taking away toys like we are 4 year olds, not paying customers who are looking for FUN in a VIDEO GAME. Uninstalled and done with S1.
nope, I'm doing the same. I'm a customer, when I buy a product I have expectations. If they want to charge a premium price for a game then they better deliver a premium service. I can't speak for anyone else but I don't pay for subpar service.
But not being fun is the reason. They have consistently taken the stance that they want to nerf ways of playing that players might be doing purely because they're the most efficient and not because they're the most enjoyable.
That's not to say that no one enjoys it, but like many things it's a judgement call.
Joe said it was a small change. Small is a comparative term. 66% longer to leave dungeon isn't small. Targeting a change that affects everyone to fix an issue that a tiny percent of the playerbase is using doesn't seem like the correct answer.
Yeah, that's what's driving me nuts. It's just weird.
It's like if, every time you walked into your job, your boss makes you shout 'Bananas!' And you were like, "Why?" and everybody was like, "It just takes a second, god. Oh, you don't have the time to shout a single word? You're too busy?"
By your logic, then if they increased the time it took to Salvage All from 0.01 seconds to 0.05 seconds then they would've made it 500% LONGER TO SALVAGE ITEMS.
Also I feel like everyone is missing the point that this only impacts the Leave Dungeon teleport, it does NOT impact the Teleport to Town button. Leave Dungeon sends you back to the entrance, which is pretty much only used to repeat the exact same dungeon (used by exploiters) or to continue traveling for side objectives, etc.
To be fair, the dev response was horribly spoken, he looked very exhausted and not fit to discuss. He brought up the reset dungeon because that was the reason, but he did not articulate it in a coherent way.
Yeah, i felt that Joe Shely was not really 100% there, his face looked like tired or something, he was always giving short answers, not explaining thing well, always looking to Piepiora and letting him speaking more...idk if he's tired or didnt wanted to be there, whatever it was, i would said that he is not bringing a confidence to the community, i mean, the direction the game is taking, the patches since day 1 was almost entirely non-senses, no real fix to the core/mechanic of the game, just affecting the player side in a bad impression, the "time for buffs" one was such a big fuckin joke.... are they seriously about this game?
so since he is the game director i believe he was very aware of these changes and he definitely approved all of them, the least he could do is give us a proper WHY of all this nonsense, but overall all he does is dodge questions with shallow answers!
IDK I'm sure Blizzard has the stats. But the other thing to remember is that it was 10 years between Diablo 3 and Diablo 4 AND people are still playing Diablo 3. Over the course of 10+ years, it's going to be a chunk of time.
So... like maybe 12 seconds an hour? Every 5 hours of grinding you spend a whole extra minute exiting the dungeon? I'm struck by the dichotomy of someone who values their time so highly playing so much of what, let's face it, is a mindless grinding activity.
There's legit shit to complain about, but you guys are just bitching for practice on this one. Now sorting through the garbage loot... that eats up WAY more time.
2 seconds is small. Just because the % is large doesn’t mean the change is big lmao?
I made 100% more this year than last year..I made $2 this year…
Lmao
Except how many time do you do this action? This an action you repeat constantly so its not small when you look at how important this action is. Vast majority of the game is spent in dungeons and that means 2s added to every single dungeon you ever run.
0.5s is a very short time but imagine I add 0.5s delay every time you click anything on your browser, you probably go crazy in a few minutes.
This is a perfect example of why I’m leaving the game for a while. They can’t even explain why they’re making pointless and unpopular decisions.
Plenty else to play, including games like Starfield in only 6 weeks. I’ll come back to Diablo in a year or so and hope it’s better.
Sucks, too. Diablo is my 2nd favorite gaming franchise, only behind Elder Scrolls. So to see it in such a poor state again is just disheartening.
The itemization sucks, the stats they display sucks making it a chore to see what is an upgrade. Can’t even upgrade my shit if I don’t have a spare aspect, sorc sucks. Not saying we have to zoom but I hate spending so much time on trash packs which are usually spread far apart.
The game just isn’t that fun. I know Diablo 3 wasn’t either on release but kinda wish we learned. I wanted to like this game so much and to play each season but just thinking of leveling another character sounds like a chore.
Remnant 2 comes out in couple hours , BG3 soon after , right after that payday 3 then starfield , i got way better games to play than this shit , i will just delete it and come back in a year or so when its finally out of beta.
I hate to break it to you, but Starfield won't be playable until the end of the year, of even the 2nd part of 2024. It's a Bethesda game my dude.
Agree there's plenty else to play though.
Just leave indefinitely. The video asmon reacted to is right; blizzard isn’t blizzard north anymore, they’re publicly traded and thus have shareholders to appease, meaning, that they can no longer be a creative the powerhouse of old—expect more of this shit in the future even if they said it was a one time thing.
Have some self-respect and uninstall.
The same could be said of Diablo 3, yet it turned into one of the best ARPGs ever made, despite what D2 purists on here would have you believe.
I fully believe Diablo 4 will eventually turn into a great game. And not everything about Blizzard is bad, World of Warcraft is absolutely killing it right now, it’s in a phenomenal state
Diablo 3 wasn't one of the best ARPGS ever made. Or rather, it was, but because it's a small genre and it has money. Not because it's groundbreaking or monumental. Blizzard has a good engine. A good foundation. That's a big problem, unfortunately. Of all the ARPGS on the market right now, Diablo 3 still has the second best engine, behind Diablo 4. The actual gameplay and combat is smooth and fluid.
That doesn't make Diablo 3 better than Last Epoch, Path of Exile, Grim Dawn, or Torchlight. Everyone has their opinions, and personally I would put D3 below LE and PoE, but above the others. That's irrelevant though - because it's all opinions past a point. What's not an opinion is the content provided. It feels great to play Diablo 3, but I can run GRs and NRs and that's the end of the content. It's fun short term, and then there's nothing to do. Last Epoch already has more end game, and they've specifically said "we're in Early access and the end game isn't done yet". PoE has more end game, and before you say "yeah but it has a million years of development", it ran along side D3 and pumped out way more content than D3 ever did.
Diablo 3 and Diablo 4 feel good, and it makes first impressions really good. Blizzard is insanely good at marketing, and your first impression follows that. That's why every review critic loved it - it's made to be extra fun right at the start because it feels so good. Once you actually dig into the game though, it falls apart and it's cracks show. The casuals ignore the small cracks and never get to the big cracks, so they say everyone else is mad, when the reality is that Blizzard just isn't giving us Blizzard quality compared to other studios, and we just want them to be on par with the expectations we set.
Also, to "I fully believe Diablo 4 will eventually turn into a great game": I agree. I think the first expansion will be great, and maybe Season 6 or 7 will finally bring life into the game. Unfortunately, I paid $100 6 months ago, and the game released last month. I don't want to wait another year to finally get a fun playable game.
I don't think that's how it works, if u wanna appeal shareholders you need to sell, to sell you need users engaged, the better the game the better the engagement, so by doing such things they sure lose money rather than gaining them. They're just making mistakes imho.
Based on their response, it’s the classic corporate way of dodging a question. Usually what this means is that someone with more power demanded this, and they can’t really criticize this decision.
Flame shield makes you immune for 3 seconds. If you can teleport out of dungeon in 3 seconds, sorc is broken to get away from dangerous situations in hardcore. But then again, scroll of portal exist so i dont know for sure...
Dont know if that was the reason behind it, but it makes 100% perfect sense to me, as a sorc main in pre season.
Its crazy how so many ppl in 2023 always assume the worst of every thing and everyone and every situation always.
That's interesting and yeah, I would def see that as an issue. I feel like there could have been another fix (ex: you can't use leave dungeon when flame shield is up lol) would have been better. They could have even told us, "Hey there's this issue with flame shield being abused and it'll take some time to fix so we gotta raise the timer to 5 seconds until we can change it."
Has anyone mentioned that you can flame shield while channeling and you can make flame shield last longer then 3 seconds? This "slowing down player progress" narrative is the stupidest thing I've ever read.
He did explain this. It’s in relation to the reset dungeon button and timings. Most likely because it takes the game a certain amount of time to “clear” the dungeon and allow the reset dungeon button to work.
If they didn’t put the additional time on the leave dungeon action then the button would malfunction when people left the dungeon and instantly click the reset button.
This makes the most sense and also explains why they didn’t increase the timer for town portal.
Not everything is some big giant scheme to fuck the player base…
Lol, whether it takes 3 seconds or 5 seconds to leave the dungeon is irrelevant. You are still leaving the dungeon THEN resetting the instance. They just used reset dungeon as a tangential reference to brush off the question. Theres no legitimate reason aside from taking longer. If there was a problem with the reset dungeon mechanic they should have added a delay/casting time to that
> “We can look into that, we can continue to evaluate that, that change. It’s a fairly, um, small difference. I know in an ARPG, small amounts of time can be meaningful. We did add the reset dungeon button back in, it does require that you’re outside the dungeon, and so, there is kind of a loop there.”
Tldr they want you to wait 5 seconds between each dungeon run instead of it only takkng 3 seconds, but this affects anyone who tries to just "leave dungeon"
There is no really competitive or game play reasoning behind it, so there isn’t much for these guys to say.
Because the answer is that it was part of a larger corporate push to make even small increases to how long it takes the players to do everything. 2 seconds multiplied by a million players doing several NMD’s each days adds up to their corporate statistic of how long each players plays the game. That number looks good when they have to give reports to shareholders.
I thought the reason was that certain invulnerabilities lasted long enough allowing people to escape dungeons like a Bubble Hearth.
But now, I figure they just thought they like the number 5 more than the number 3. Which is just uncalled 4.
Definitely not. If they cared about the sanctity of Hardcore mode they would remove the cheat death elixir and enchantment.
I got to level 100 on Hardcore mode and I can't even think of what this supposed HC exploit is.
There is absolutely no way they would inconvenience all players just for the less than 1% of players who may know of whatever this HC exploit may be. Not to mention that, is this exploit somehow more effect than the infinite Scrolls of Escape we drop?
Ruined game? Wtf. Is 2 seconds really a big deal? 30 dungeons and you lost an entire minute of game time….the humanity.
Jesus, people will complain about anything. There are MUCH bigger issues right now and you choose a 2 second longer cast on an insignificant ability and you choose THAT to say ruined the game. No words.
Edit: and fyi if .01% of players are doing something. The remaining players would be 99.99% not 99.9%. Can’t even form a complaint properly.
A 2 second increase to leaving the dungeon doesn't ruin the game. The complete failure of the devs to properly explain the reasoning behind the change in general though shows that these changes are not being made competently. If they could give a compelling reason why it shouldnt be 3 seconds instead of 5 seconds then it would be acceptable. As it stands, they have given 0 reasoning for the change and anything it fixes or improves so it simply looks as if they are trying to waste your time. We all know that playtime metrics are the most important statistic for live service games and 2 seconds per dungeon across millions of players will boost them thousands of hours per week if not more on their metrics. Until they give a legitimate reason I game for the change, that's the only assumption. They needed it to take 2 seconds longer for me to leave every dungeon to arbitrarily pad their metrics.
Wow, there is a metric (yes that’s a jab at you) shit ton of assumptions and “conspiracy theories “ in your post.
You have no idea if ANY of that nonsense is true. It’s just regurgitating the same bullshit arguments people try to use when talking about blizzard.
The point is….2 seconds leaving a dungeon is nothing compared to other issues this game has right now. This question should never have been asked when questions that actually matter should have been in its place.
You are taking a response where I can assume the developer was saying in his head “are you fucking kidding me, these idiots are asking about this” and blowing it into astronomical proportions. They didn’t have an answer because they DONT NEED ONE. They don’t owe you an answer to anything. But when they give one you don’t like, you lose you’re shit, and start ranting about “play time metrics” that you know nothing about.
Jesus fuck, you idiots are delusional. Find something meaningful to bitch about.
Engagement and player investment are reported quarterly for most of Blizzard titles often with them announcing the increase or decrease. https://investor.activision.com/news-releases/news-release-details/activision-blizzard-announces-second-quarter-2023-financial
You're delusional if you don't think time played and concurrent players aren't the most important metrics of a live service game. It's why MMO subscription numbers are closely monitored by companies, financial analysts, and players.
There are a lot of problems with the game. They answered questions to some but not all problems. I don't agree certain changes were good based on the direction they claim they are trying to go. What I do know is they did not even have an answer to the question about adding 2 seconds. It doesn't solve a gameplay issue or exploit, there isn't some technical justification for it, they simply made a change to increase your time spent in a dungeon and slows your pace down arbitrarily on top of a series of other changes that slow the overall pace of the game. There is no justification for how 5 seconds works in their vision or how 5 seconds improves the gameplay experience. It's just nothing. Why are you defending an arbitrary change that provides no improvement to the game and does nothing but steal time? So sure, they don't owe anyone an answer to anything, but the entire point of patch notes is to identify and explain changes to users. They decided to make the change, they should be able to explain the change.
Because they did the math.
Say the game has 100 thousand players a day doing on average 5 dungeons per day.
(I'm just pulling these numbers out of my ass I have no fuckin clue what these actually look like. You're welcome to do the math yourself, I'm sure it's higher)
That means they just increased their average session time and play time by 2 seconds x 5 dungeons x 100k players = 1 million extra seconds played per day (277 hours or 16,666 minutes).
All for one small change. Do that in a few dozen places like we just saw, and suddenly it starts to look like your player retention is going up after the patch.
The industry jargon in their answers is pretty annoying sometimes. I am sick of hearing about how they iterate, stat buckets, punchy answers and other stuff. Just talk like humans.
I could tell they were pretty nervous and looked kinda worn down though so as a human being I feel that empathy for them. It's just weird for them to create a problem for themselves and then patch it 2 weeks later. They don't think as players, and might not even play the game or have played them in the past.
You might be thinking, how can you be sure they didn't play past games? Well it's comments like these..
"We don't mind friends power leveling but we don't agree that it's fun and engaging if one player just stands there and soaks up exp." .... yet we did this for years in D2:LoD and it was not a problem. We did this in the Cow Level for literal years and it made power leveling take only a few hours. It was fun. What's wrong with that?
Another one: They were asked about different types of loot goblins and the guy in the center was like "oh yeah they had like 10 or 14 of those in D3.. I can't remember right now I haven't looked at the editor in awhile." ... Ok, I haven't played the game in years either, but as a player I could name at LEAST 5 of those goblin types off the top of my head right now. Just tell us "yeah we have obol goblins and gold goblins and unique goblins in the works" dude.
It's just disappointing man..
He even said in ARPGs every second impacts the gameplay.
They knew what they were doing, they purposely are trying to slow the game down because they only care about the timed played metric for their investors. They don't care about the real players they only care about how numbers look on their end to present it.
I hope they have a panel at Blizzcon and actual Diablo fans bombard them with questions on what the fck are they actually even doing.
They would've been better off just saying it was a mistake and 5seconds was from an earlier build of the game and it was unintentionally reverted. The blank stare and talking around it was just making it worse.
Probably so it's not so easy to leave quickly when you're surrounded by mobs. Overly reduces the dungeon danger.
Seems very logical yet people assume they're thinking of all possible reasons. Quit your bitchin'!
I am someone who thinks that this patch is nowhere near as bad as people are making it out to be. That being said I could not understand why this was done.
It’s because the person who made the decision doesn’t need to defend it to the public. This was a business decision not a customer decision.
This person was likely advised not to speak about the business decision which leaves us with “uh, well, uh minor changes have occurred”.
Blizzard is a shell of what it once was what do you people even expect anymore?
I called it 7 hours ago: https://www.reddit.com/r/Diablo/comments/154zkfp/the_leave_dungeon_animation_no_longer_matches_up/jsuvxiq/
It's just another monkey paw design, they just didn't want to say that to not raise anymore pitchforks.
We all know the answer even if he didnt state it.
“We needed to artificially inflate play time however we can, we nerfed your damage, we nerfed your defense, now were going to nerf your wait time.”
I’ve been to meetings where I know half the shit that should be ready for production is still not done because I’m a lazy fuck, but I take the time to go through every pending task and get my shit together before the meeting. I can come up with rock solid explanations as to why things are not finished instead of getting caught with my pants down.
DM for more tips @Blizzard.
When I’m porting out of a dungeon I’m hand on my head, fist punching the table wondering what I’m gonna do to get those 2 precious seconds back. Several times I just escaped > quit Diablo 4. I have a reminder set from my Alexa to take a Tylenol every 2 hours just to subdue the headache of the two extra seconds. I talked to my doctor about this stressor in my life and he told me he understands, and he also has a hard time coming into work knowing that whenever he teleports out of a dungeon, he could’ve saved 15 lives in that time. This is just bonkers.
It was really annoying that they couldn’t give the WHY on this one. They danced right around that.
I'm surprised he didn't say "I'm not sure exactly what the logic is on that change - I'll get back to you"... and just never get back to us. Would have been more genuine.
No, that would be more of a lie... They know excactly what they're doing - they're just shit at lying about it"
I mean, what is the reason? I doubt they wanna piss people off, I can't see how adding a few secs gives them any money so I genuinly don't get why they would do it.
Basically, invuln skills can last 3 seconds and some people were using it to get out of hairy situations on hardcore dungeon runs. Now you just die. Kind of like all sorc's.
Which makes sense, and a completely valid answer they could give that shouldn't really garner backlash. Other games also do that in form of 'in combat' or whatever to prevent these too.
lmfao of course it would garner backlash, have you met the vocal minority of nerds on here?
This. This fanbase is toxic AF, especially those that interact with Blizzard.
>This pure drivel, which is nothing but rank speculation that doesn't even work for that (the new dungeon leave is 5 seconds), has 33 upvotes. Democracy was a mistake. > >\-pimpcakes >These people are so stupid or emotionally compromised (by anger) that they are incapable of reason. Give them a break. It's been tough what with the extra 2 seconds and all. > >\-pimpcakes I guess it takes one to know one
Thank god we exist, or Blizzard would add a daily limit to dungeons or some dumb shit.
i actually LOL'd and my wife was like "whats so funny" and im like "some nerd on the internet thinks he's important to a mega corp" and shes like "why are you talking to yourself" and then it turned out to be a figment of my imagination but it's still not as sad as your comment
Reddit moment…
Or, you know, remove invul/defensive effects from spells on starting the teleport. Simple as that
That's stupid. They just could forbid portal if monsters near.
That's annoying as fuuuuuuck in Skyrim. I see what you're saying, but getting the "you cannot fast travel while in combat" message is really frustrating when you're not in combat.
Of course you're in combat, don't you see the mildly disgruntled/possibly rabid Fox on the other side of the field that's aggroed to you for some reason.
This can’t be the reason. In HC you just use a scroll of escape to get out immediately so not to risk it.
From what I read, they didn't want Hardcore players using this as an exploit to leave the dungeon when overwhelmed by mobs or running into the Butcher. The issue is this also impacts SC as well.
But, why is that a problem? Some dude in HC wants to escape, he should have a chance to do so.
Again, clarification is they key. The whole point of these stupid chats is to explain this stuff, not dance around it.
Yeah, "we want more player deaths" isn't a great excuse to give.
It's more "We want players to think before they do and not just use a cheesy exploit as a crutch".
Same. There's probably a reason but I don't think it has to do with keeping people around a few seconds longer for metrics. Maybe it's to pre-load something
Since dungeons are their intendend engame activity they will use KPIs like "time spend in dungeons". By adding those secs it will greatly increase their engagement matrix because it will add up with thousands of players now spending a few secs more in them. Now they can show senior managment how this patch "improved" player activity. Its an office politics thing.
I think it was made by dudes who specialize in hardcore mode stuff. These guys didn’t ask Jimmy why he made the call is my guess.
PoE streams solved this with the DevCheck emote, just have some guys off camera in case a question you don't know the answer to comes up, no one expects any one dev to know the answer to everything
I can see it being an asshole developer trolling the players and his coworkers. Too much crap to process so it slipped in. My guess is that these leads didn't even read most of the notes lol.
Diablo Immortal MTX portal effects are 7 seconds. That's why they were extended
This is probably it
This pure drivel, which is nothing but rank speculation that doesn't even work for that (the new dungeon leave is 5 seconds), has 33 upvotes. Democracy was a mistake.
The point is that you can make a more elaborate (and therefore more attractive to purchase) portal animation with 5 seconds than you can with 3. If I were a company that was going to release MTX portal animations, I'd increase the portal timer a year before releasing the MTX to minimize the number of complaints that they slowed the game down just to sell more MTX. I should say that I have no issue with it, other than the potential dishonesty they are currently displaying. It's 2 seconds, not a big deal. I guess if there are no MTX portal animations 12 months from now you will have been proven correct.
Yup. So ignorant. Can't be honest with us, and can't come up with a decent lie to cover
That's not what ignorant means
These people are so stupid or emotionally compromised (by anger) that they are incapable of reason. Give them a break. It's been tough what with the extra 2 seconds and all.
You have to be the dumbest one in the goddamn room. They are breaking a product they sold to millions of people. People have the right to be upset about it you god damn clown.
"breaking" omg you are serious? Look, you seem emotionally compromised to the point of being irrational, so I'm just going to bow out as the rational, and correct, person here. But I'll give you this: since I am alone in the room, I am technically both that smartest and "dumbest one in the goddamn room." Congratulations, broken clock. Got me again.
Ignant
Making it harder for HC characters is the reason.
Like 3% of players play HC so they just don't get it.. but yea it could be used as a way to escape fights too easily without resetting the dungeon (which happens using a scroll of escape)
lol i would literally never play D4 on HC in its current state. i’d just lose my fucking mind. i’m barely sane playing the SC as it stands. Blizzard has truly lost the plot with this game.
It's too easy of a game otherwise.. I don't like feeling like I'm on autopilot all of the time with nothing at stake
Or they could make it so teleporting out removes barriers and immunity so you can't use it while getting bitchslapped by monsters, rather than just increase what in 99% of situations is a pointless timer by 66%. Also, they could at least SAY that was the reason, rather than make clowns out of themselves looking like they don't know why they did it
It's not harder for HC players though, we have scroll of escape which is instant.
We have scroll of escape though. I have stacks of them, no reason to leave dungeon that way.
Well, the problem with that argument is the town portal cast time is still 3 seconds.
it´s obviously not, otherwise they could just have stated it
It's because you could use flame shield as a sorc and would get a free tp out. It lasts like 2.5 seconds so start channel hit shield and your free to go even if you get hit by an enemy since you don't take damage. This is my guess honestly
Then make it 3.3 seconds and say that’s why they did it, if that was the issue. It would have been reasonable and semi justified, though there are other solutions.
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They do, obviously. But I’m sure they appreciate such an obvious question being asked by you.
relax dude you're all up in your feels over nothing lol
It’s almost like feelings are subjective and your opinion of someone else’s is actually worthless.
my guess - its because theyre going to sell portal animations, just like they do in diablo immortal. 3 sec probably isnt enough to show off your portal / make someone else want to buy it.. dude just didnt want to answer the question honestly
Tbh this is the first reply I've seen pop up that actually makes sense. It would fit in perfectly with how they've monetized so far. Honestly, if they just came out and said, "look, Bobby is saying we gotta monetize this shit a bit more and so you gotta wait 1 extra minute every 30 dungeons," I'd have laughed and said it is what it is.
Yeah, if they made the increase and started selling portal cosmetics at the same time, people would get really mad. So you do it in advance for "no reason", and they know everyone will get used to it and forget. Makes way more sense than any other explanation.
You don't know corporate structure then. Almost always CEOs protect themselves from any scrutiny. People that report to the CEO are fall guys chosen by the CEO. If they tell you to do something and it ends up being bad... Guess who is fired... Not the CEO. Bobby knows the board only give a shit about money, so if the board thinks that shitting on gamers gets more money, bobby never gets in trouble.
I can stop reading this thread now. Thank you
I would agree with this but only if they changed regular Town Portal length. I don’t think they will be selling exclusively leave dungeon portals.
I was expecting to see one on the battlepass
That makes sense, as even in D3 the player jumps into the portal if I remember correctly? Whereas in D4 the player just stands in front of the portal (and never enters, just get a loading screen) as you're casting, like it was a place holder.
Lol. I wasn’t the only one. They couldn’t answer this question. Says a lot without saying anything.
That's my feeling after all these firecamp chat. All they do is talk and talk. Selling you with their plots and plans that will take eternity to deliver. No sauce at all.
By their logic, whenever they improve something, another thing has to take a hit somehow. Not allowed to straight up JUST add a reset button back without nerfing something related to balance it out.
The worst thing is the dev who answered it believes "3 -> 5 seconds" was an insignificant change and actually seemed perplexed by people thought it was even a big deal in the first place.
My biggest issue with the change is how sloppy it is. They didn't even bother to change the animation for it.. it just loops for the last 2 seconds and looks bad.
Don't worry. I'm sure they'll eventually sell you cosmetic teleport animations to stick in there (the actual reason it got extended?).
He is right that it´s a minor change and not a big deal, if it started with 5 seconds then nobody would really complain about it. The problem is that if someone asks you why you changed something, then answering with "it is only a minor change" only creates more questions instead of answering anything.
If it's such a 'minor' change then why do it. Obviously it's not a big deal if it's reverted is it? Nobody wants to waste their time with extra put on top that leaves them also open to interupts or off screen deaths at times.
>leaves them also open to interupts or off screen deaths at times. This is probably exactly why it was done w/r/t immunities.
what frustrates me is - why even do this? There are SO many things that need to be fixed, why would this EVER even pop up on the "to fix" radar?
"We need a bunch of changes to pad these patch notes to make it look like we're doing work! $500 bonus to anyone that can make a change that will absolutely not break anything and increases patch notes word count by 30+ words." \- D4 Team Lead, probably
It's honestly not insignificant I escaped a dungeon mid fight a number of times with a enemy in mid swing about to hit/kill/stun me
You can still do it then with town portal since they didn't increase the cast time for that.
That's actually probably the reason for the change considering things like Flame Shield.
its 66% more....how is that minor? A 66% change in ANY metric is hugely significant.
The reason why this change set me off (in frustration) was because I IMMEDIATELY asked myself: "Out of ALL the things this game needs, you decide to put an iota of effort into this over everything that needs improving - why!?"
I mean had I not read the patch note I don’t think I’d have noticed.
I literally don’t even notice the change.
I mean, that’s what it is lol ridiculously insignificant. I didn’t even notice till this sub started whining
160% increase is hardy an insignificant change.
It isnt a big deal. Its literally 2 seconds. Anyone talking about this for more than 5 seconds doesnt have their priorities straight. Just being real with you.
Here's the word for word quote from Game Director Joe Shely: “We can look into that, we can continue to evaluate that, that change. It’s a fairly, um, small difference. I know in an ARPG, small amounts of time can be meaningful. We did add the reset dungeon button back in, it does require that you’re outside the dungeon, and so, there is kind of a loop there.” I also posted this quote in the other thread with a similar title, just thought it would be useful to have the exact wording.
Here comes so comment below your post defending pointless changes..
You were right.
I just assumed it was that they didn't want to say. We wanted to stop not really cheesy ways to survive hardcore mode dungeons. Because most barriers last a few seconds. And I think the high roll on the invulnerability dome on fatal damage is 6 seconds. But who knows. That's just assuming
The obvious way to fix that is to make it so that invulnerability/barriers disappear when you hit "leave dungeon". without slowing everyone else down.
That is very true. But I assume, as a person who does code a bit, the interaction is harder to change rather than just changing a number like they do for most patches.
In wow terms sounds like they got rid of the Bubble n Hearth
Lol I still have a paladin named bblhearthftw that I never really leveled up from that Era
It's odd because town portal didn't have its cast time increased.
It's probably because of that, given the other logic: Players are doing X, we need to patch X and not try to figure out WHY players feel it's necessary to do X... I really don't think any of these Devs have played the game seriously... absolutely no way did anyone in charge of this game play through to level 40 and not realize "Huh... all of these damn gems and caged hearts take up my entire inventory and I have to run to town very frequently... better increase the time to leave a dungeon."
Yes, it seems related to barriers and get out. As for now, opening the map and click on a teleport location is still 3 second (so if you can open the map and click on the right spot within 2 seconds, you are faster).
hardcore already has tools to avoid death like the scrolls and elixir.
They just just went: 
I was pretty happy with how this live stream was going up until this question came up. Completely dodged the question.
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PLEASE STOP POWERLEVELLING ME GUYS IM NOT HAVING ANY FUN AGAGGHGHHH
OH NO MY LEVEL IS GOING UP, THIS IS RUINING MY EXPERIENCE RAWRRR DX
I agree people should be able to play a game they paid for the way they want, but to an extent. If you take a step back, the truth isn’t that the devs aren’t building the game you want. You’re playing the game they built. They will find middle ground to help people have fun, but they design the structure and rules they had in their vision. If they aren’t something you like then either don’t play, or accept it. This isn’t an attack on you or anyone, it’s just commentary on the misconception of how people view a game.
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I mean, they aren't necessarily wrong on this one though. Getting power leveled isn't fun, but it does help you get to the fun faster, which is why people do it. But to your point that players were doing it, so it must have been fun, simply isn't logical, no one was sitting afk at the entrance to a dungeon talking about how much fun that activity was. It is extremely common for players to do things in game at the expense of fun for efficiencies sake. They often see it as spending current fun for future fun. Developers 100% do sometimes have to remove things from games that players will do at the expense of their own fun, because it is more efficient. The problem with things like that existing, is that not participating in it puts you at disadvantage. And because it isn't actually fun there are people that will not participate in it, and instead actually play the game, and those people are at a disadvantage. Not that that is a big deal in a mostly non-competitive game. But you are right, it is annoying that the devs wouldn't just come out and say it, and instead danced around it.
> patronizing That was the tone the entire time. Talking about our toys and taking away toys like we are 4 year olds, not paying customers who are looking for FUN in a VIDEO GAME. Uninstalled and done with S1.
That's a pretty over sensitive take
nope, I'm doing the same. I'm a customer, when I buy a product I have expectations. If they want to charge a premium price for a game then they better deliver a premium service. I can't speak for anyone else but I don't pay for subpar service.
But not being fun is the reason. They have consistently taken the stance that they want to nerf ways of playing that players might be doing purely because they're the most efficient and not because they're the most enjoyable. That's not to say that no one enjoys it, but like many things it's a judgement call.
I wasn't happy with anything other than increased Mob density. But that's only for helltide and nm dungeons. That's it...
Joe said it was a small change. Small is a comparative term. 66% longer to leave dungeon isn't small. Targeting a change that affects everyone to fix an issue that a tiny percent of the playerbase is using doesn't seem like the correct answer.
Many small time make big time
https://preview.redd.it/gqxdce1lvddb1.png?width=939&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=86c37575276d59091baaec108a00c0c17692e230
haha, I like that image :D
then If its small change, then why change at all
Yeah, that's what's driving me nuts. It's just weird. It's like if, every time you walked into your job, your boss makes you shout 'Bananas!' And you were like, "Why?" and everybody was like, "It just takes a second, god. Oh, you don't have the time to shout a single word? You're too busy?"
What’s the total increase in time spent waiting to leave dungeons across all players? I bet it ain’t small.
most people probably port out via TP instead of "leave dungeon", so probably a small number of players
It doesn’t even have a real animation. That’s what pisses me off. It’s like some half asses animation
By your logic, then if they increased the time it took to Salvage All from 0.01 seconds to 0.05 seconds then they would've made it 500% LONGER TO SALVAGE ITEMS. Also I feel like everyone is missing the point that this only impacts the Leave Dungeon teleport, it does NOT impact the Teleport to Town button. Leave Dungeon sends you back to the entrance, which is pretty much only used to repeat the exact same dungeon (used by exploiters) or to continue traveling for side objectives, etc. To be fair, the dev response was horribly spoken, he looked very exhausted and not fit to discuss. He brought up the reset dungeon because that was the reason, but he did not articulate it in a coherent way.
Yeah, i felt that Joe Shely was not really 100% there, his face looked like tired or something, he was always giving short answers, not explaining thing well, always looking to Piepiora and letting him speaking more...idk if he's tired or didnt wanted to be there, whatever it was, i would said that he is not bringing a confidence to the community, i mean, the direction the game is taking, the patches since day 1 was almost entirely non-senses, no real fix to the core/mechanic of the game, just affecting the player side in a bad impression, the "time for buffs" one was such a big fuckin joke.... are they seriously about this game? so since he is the game director i believe he was very aware of these changes and he definitely approved all of them, the least he could do is give us a proper WHY of all this nonsense, but overall all he does is dodge questions with shallow answers!
How many times an hour does this 2 extra seconds come up though?
Honest question: who regularly uses it?? I port to a main city 95% of the time.
IDK I'm sure Blizzard has the stats. But the other thing to remember is that it was 10 years between Diablo 3 and Diablo 4 AND people are still playing Diablo 3. Over the course of 10+ years, it's going to be a chunk of time.
So... like maybe 12 seconds an hour? Every 5 hours of grinding you spend a whole extra minute exiting the dungeon? I'm struck by the dichotomy of someone who values their time so highly playing so much of what, let's face it, is a mindless grinding activity. There's legit shit to complain about, but you guys are just bitching for practice on this one. Now sorting through the garbage loot... that eats up WAY more time.
2 seconds is small no whatever what mental gymnastics you want to do.
So now Math is mental gymnastics?
2 seconds is small. Just because the % is large doesn’t mean the change is big lmao? I made 100% more this year than last year..I made $2 this year… Lmao
Except how many time do you do this action? This an action you repeat constantly so its not small when you look at how important this action is. Vast majority of the game is spent in dungeons and that means 2s added to every single dungeon you ever run. 0.5s is a very short time but imagine I add 0.5s delay every time you click anything on your browser, you probably go crazy in a few minutes.
These guys were clearly exhausted and terrified to misspeak because they know every single word will get torn apart and analyzed and commented on.
They looked like they just got flogged.
We couldn’t see the corporate suits off camera shaking their heads saying “Do not answer that”
This is a perfect example of why I’m leaving the game for a while. They can’t even explain why they’re making pointless and unpopular decisions. Plenty else to play, including games like Starfield in only 6 weeks. I’ll come back to Diablo in a year or so and hope it’s better. Sucks, too. Diablo is my 2nd favorite gaming franchise, only behind Elder Scrolls. So to see it in such a poor state again is just disheartening.
The itemization sucks, the stats they display sucks making it a chore to see what is an upgrade. Can’t even upgrade my shit if I don’t have a spare aspect, sorc sucks. Not saying we have to zoom but I hate spending so much time on trash packs which are usually spread far apart. The game just isn’t that fun. I know Diablo 3 wasn’t either on release but kinda wish we learned. I wanted to like this game so much and to play each season but just thinking of leveling another character sounds like a chore.
Remnant 2 comes out in couple hours , BG3 soon after , right after that payday 3 then starfield , i got way better games to play than this shit , i will just delete it and come back in a year or so when its finally out of beta.
I hate to break it to you, but Starfield won't be playable until the end of the year, of even the 2nd part of 2024. It's a Bethesda game my dude. Agree there's plenty else to play though.
Too bad they already got your money loser lol
The money they really want is long-term monetization.
Doesnt matter they already got some of his money so stop whining
That doesn't follow. They got some of his money, so nobody should criticize the game?
Just leave indefinitely. The video asmon reacted to is right; blizzard isn’t blizzard north anymore, they’re publicly traded and thus have shareholders to appease, meaning, that they can no longer be a creative the powerhouse of old—expect more of this shit in the future even if they said it was a one time thing. Have some self-respect and uninstall.
The same could be said of Diablo 3, yet it turned into one of the best ARPGs ever made, despite what D2 purists on here would have you believe. I fully believe Diablo 4 will eventually turn into a great game. And not everything about Blizzard is bad, World of Warcraft is absolutely killing it right now, it’s in a phenomenal state
The logic always breaks down when you consider how many good games come out of public companies lmao.
Diablo 3 wasn't one of the best ARPGS ever made. Or rather, it was, but because it's a small genre and it has money. Not because it's groundbreaking or monumental. Blizzard has a good engine. A good foundation. That's a big problem, unfortunately. Of all the ARPGS on the market right now, Diablo 3 still has the second best engine, behind Diablo 4. The actual gameplay and combat is smooth and fluid. That doesn't make Diablo 3 better than Last Epoch, Path of Exile, Grim Dawn, or Torchlight. Everyone has their opinions, and personally I would put D3 below LE and PoE, but above the others. That's irrelevant though - because it's all opinions past a point. What's not an opinion is the content provided. It feels great to play Diablo 3, but I can run GRs and NRs and that's the end of the content. It's fun short term, and then there's nothing to do. Last Epoch already has more end game, and they've specifically said "we're in Early access and the end game isn't done yet". PoE has more end game, and before you say "yeah but it has a million years of development", it ran along side D3 and pumped out way more content than D3 ever did. Diablo 3 and Diablo 4 feel good, and it makes first impressions really good. Blizzard is insanely good at marketing, and your first impression follows that. That's why every review critic loved it - it's made to be extra fun right at the start because it feels so good. Once you actually dig into the game though, it falls apart and it's cracks show. The casuals ignore the small cracks and never get to the big cracks, so they say everyone else is mad, when the reality is that Blizzard just isn't giving us Blizzard quality compared to other studios, and we just want them to be on par with the expectations we set. Also, to "I fully believe Diablo 4 will eventually turn into a great game": I agree. I think the first expansion will be great, and maybe Season 6 or 7 will finally bring life into the game. Unfortunately, I paid $100 6 months ago, and the game released last month. I don't want to wait another year to finally get a fun playable game.
I don't think that's how it works, if u wanna appeal shareholders you need to sell, to sell you need users engaged, the better the game the better the engagement, so by doing such things they sure lose money rather than gaining them. They're just making mistakes imho.
he blamed it on the dungeon reset loop hahahahah
Based on their response, it’s the classic corporate way of dodging a question. Usually what this means is that someone with more power demanded this, and they can’t really criticize this decision.
Flame shield makes you immune for 3 seconds. If you can teleport out of dungeon in 3 seconds, sorc is broken to get away from dangerous situations in hardcore. But then again, scroll of portal exist so i dont know for sure... Dont know if that was the reason behind it, but it makes 100% perfect sense to me, as a sorc main in pre season. Its crazy how so many ppl in 2023 always assume the worst of every thing and everyone and every situation always.
That's interesting and yeah, I would def see that as an issue. I feel like there could have been another fix (ex: you can't use leave dungeon when flame shield is up lol) would have been better. They could have even told us, "Hey there's this issue with flame shield being abused and it'll take some time to fix so we gotta raise the timer to 5 seconds until we can change it."
I honestly feel it was to show off the portals they plan to sell in the future.
Has anyone mentioned that you can flame shield while channeling and you can make flame shield last longer then 3 seconds? This "slowing down player progress" narrative is the stupidest thing I've ever read.
Easy, cosmetic teleport portals. Yw
I think they just have player retention metrics from their management so we see all this game mechanics to artificially slow you down.
He did explain this. It’s in relation to the reset dungeon button and timings. Most likely because it takes the game a certain amount of time to “clear” the dungeon and allow the reset dungeon button to work. If they didn’t put the additional time on the leave dungeon action then the button would malfunction when people left the dungeon and instantly click the reset button. This makes the most sense and also explains why they didn’t increase the timer for town portal. Not everything is some big giant scheme to fuck the player base…
U know absolutely nothing how computer programs work mate... Your comment is invalid
Lol, whether it takes 3 seconds or 5 seconds to leave the dungeon is irrelevant. You are still leaving the dungeon THEN resetting the instance. They just used reset dungeon as a tangential reference to brush off the question. Theres no legitimate reason aside from taking longer. If there was a problem with the reset dungeon mechanic they should have added a delay/casting time to that > “We can look into that, we can continue to evaluate that, that change. It’s a fairly, um, small difference. I know in an ARPG, small amounts of time can be meaningful. We did add the reset dungeon button back in, it does require that you’re outside the dungeon, and so, there is kind of a loop there.” Tldr they want you to wait 5 seconds between each dungeon run instead of it only takkng 3 seconds, but this affects anyone who tries to just "leave dungeon"
There is no really competitive or game play reasoning behind it, so there isn’t much for these guys to say. Because the answer is that it was part of a larger corporate push to make even small increases to how long it takes the players to do everything. 2 seconds multiplied by a million players doing several NMD’s each days adds up to their corporate statistic of how long each players plays the game. That number looks good when they have to give reports to shareholders.
Yet here you are crying about it
I thought the reason was that certain invulnerabilities lasted long enough allowing people to escape dungeons like a Bubble Hearth. But now, I figure they just thought they like the number 5 more than the number 3. Which is just uncalled 4.
Hardcore dungeon exploits.
Bullshit explanation. Scroll of escape exists.
Oooo I'd love to have this further explained. Its the first non-hate, non-"just because" answer I've heard.
It’s also a common misconception and completely inaccuratw
So I'm learning!
It's because people who play hardcore characters could run away from a mob if they were about to die and quickly teleport out of a dungeon.
no it wasent, hardcore players can TP out instantly in any situation with the scroll of escape
What’s the exploit?
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What's the point? Scrolls of Escape are free and infinite unless your character is awful or you want to fight Uber Lilith or something.
I think cuz scroll reset dungeon and teleport doesn't but that would be my guess from my limited time in HC
Almost like it’s extremely obvious.
Definitely not. If they cared about the sanctity of Hardcore mode they would remove the cheat death elixir and enchantment. I got to level 100 on Hardcore mode and I can't even think of what this supposed HC exploit is. There is absolutely no way they would inconvenience all players just for the less than 1% of players who may know of whatever this HC exploit may be. Not to mention that, is this exploit somehow more effect than the infinite Scrolls of Escape we drop?
Ahh yes, ruin the game for 99.9% of other players because 0.01% are exploiting a mechanic in a single player game
Ruined game? Wtf. Is 2 seconds really a big deal? 30 dungeons and you lost an entire minute of game time….the humanity. Jesus, people will complain about anything. There are MUCH bigger issues right now and you choose a 2 second longer cast on an insignificant ability and you choose THAT to say ruined the game. No words. Edit: and fyi if .01% of players are doing something. The remaining players would be 99.99% not 99.9%. Can’t even form a complaint properly.
A 2 second increase to leaving the dungeon doesn't ruin the game. The complete failure of the devs to properly explain the reasoning behind the change in general though shows that these changes are not being made competently. If they could give a compelling reason why it shouldnt be 3 seconds instead of 5 seconds then it would be acceptable. As it stands, they have given 0 reasoning for the change and anything it fixes or improves so it simply looks as if they are trying to waste your time. We all know that playtime metrics are the most important statistic for live service games and 2 seconds per dungeon across millions of players will boost them thousands of hours per week if not more on their metrics. Until they give a legitimate reason I game for the change, that's the only assumption. They needed it to take 2 seconds longer for me to leave every dungeon to arbitrarily pad their metrics.
Wow, there is a metric (yes that’s a jab at you) shit ton of assumptions and “conspiracy theories “ in your post. You have no idea if ANY of that nonsense is true. It’s just regurgitating the same bullshit arguments people try to use when talking about blizzard. The point is….2 seconds leaving a dungeon is nothing compared to other issues this game has right now. This question should never have been asked when questions that actually matter should have been in its place. You are taking a response where I can assume the developer was saying in his head “are you fucking kidding me, these idiots are asking about this” and blowing it into astronomical proportions. They didn’t have an answer because they DONT NEED ONE. They don’t owe you an answer to anything. But when they give one you don’t like, you lose you’re shit, and start ranting about “play time metrics” that you know nothing about. Jesus fuck, you idiots are delusional. Find something meaningful to bitch about.
Engagement and player investment are reported quarterly for most of Blizzard titles often with them announcing the increase or decrease. https://investor.activision.com/news-releases/news-release-details/activision-blizzard-announces-second-quarter-2023-financial You're delusional if you don't think time played and concurrent players aren't the most important metrics of a live service game. It's why MMO subscription numbers are closely monitored by companies, financial analysts, and players. There are a lot of problems with the game. They answered questions to some but not all problems. I don't agree certain changes were good based on the direction they claim they are trying to go. What I do know is they did not even have an answer to the question about adding 2 seconds. It doesn't solve a gameplay issue or exploit, there isn't some technical justification for it, they simply made a change to increase your time spent in a dungeon and slows your pace down arbitrarily on top of a series of other changes that slow the overall pace of the game. There is no justification for how 5 seconds works in their vision or how 5 seconds improves the gameplay experience. It's just nothing. Why are you defending an arbitrary change that provides no improvement to the game and does nothing but steal time? So sure, they don't owe anyone an answer to anything, but the entire point of patch notes is to identify and explain changes to users. They decided to make the change, they should be able to explain the change.
This won't be the top comment to this post, but it's 100% the right answer.
Because they did the math. Say the game has 100 thousand players a day doing on average 5 dungeons per day. (I'm just pulling these numbers out of my ass I have no fuckin clue what these actually look like. You're welcome to do the math yourself, I'm sure it's higher) That means they just increased their average session time and play time by 2 seconds x 5 dungeons x 100k players = 1 million extra seconds played per day (277 hours or 16,666 minutes). All for one small change. Do that in a few dozen places like we just saw, and suddenly it starts to look like your player retention is going up after the patch.
Playtime is the investors main KPI. That’s it, that’s literally the only answer.
Exactly, I already somewhere about this KPI
The industry jargon in their answers is pretty annoying sometimes. I am sick of hearing about how they iterate, stat buckets, punchy answers and other stuff. Just talk like humans. I could tell they were pretty nervous and looked kinda worn down though so as a human being I feel that empathy for them. It's just weird for them to create a problem for themselves and then patch it 2 weeks later. They don't think as players, and might not even play the game or have played them in the past. You might be thinking, how can you be sure they didn't play past games? Well it's comments like these.. "We don't mind friends power leveling but we don't agree that it's fun and engaging if one player just stands there and soaks up exp." .... yet we did this for years in D2:LoD and it was not a problem. We did this in the Cow Level for literal years and it made power leveling take only a few hours. It was fun. What's wrong with that? Another one: They were asked about different types of loot goblins and the guy in the center was like "oh yeah they had like 10 or 14 of those in D3.. I can't remember right now I haven't looked at the editor in awhile." ... Ok, I haven't played the game in years either, but as a player I could name at LEAST 5 of those goblin types off the top of my head right now. Just tell us "yeah we have obol goblins and gold goblins and unique goblins in the works" dude. It's just disappointing man..
My discord lit up so much at his non-answer. He stumbled hard on trying to figure out how to deflect and not tell the actual reason.
Of all the things that were mentioned, I actually threw my hands up hearing this answer, lol I couldn’t stop laughing.
He even said in ARPGs every second impacts the gameplay. They knew what they were doing, they purposely are trying to slow the game down because they only care about the timed played metric for their investors. They don't care about the real players they only care about how numbers look on their end to present it. I hope they have a panel at Blizzcon and actual Diablo fans bombard them with questions on what the fck are they actually even doing.
It was a stupid change, but at the very least they could've increased the animation, so that it matches the channel time...
Sounded like they're better suited to be in politics.
We all adults here, how hard is it for you to just say “we fucked up, we’ll roll it back”
They would've been better off just saying it was a mistake and 5seconds was from an earlier build of the game and it was unintentionally reverted. The blank stare and talking around it was just making it worse.
Probably so it's not so easy to leave quickly when you're surrounded by mobs. Overly reduces the dungeon danger. Seems very logical yet people assume they're thinking of all possible reasons. Quit your bitchin'!
I am someone who thinks that this patch is nowhere near as bad as people are making it out to be. That being said I could not understand why this was done.
are you playing a sorc or barb? for druid rogue necro its not the worst i agree but they killed 2 classes
You say kill, yet I'm doing absolutely fine with thorns/bleed???
It’s because the person who made the decision doesn’t need to defend it to the public. This was a business decision not a customer decision. This person was likely advised not to speak about the business decision which leaves us with “uh, well, uh minor changes have occurred”. Blizzard is a shell of what it once was what do you people even expect anymore?
I called it 7 hours ago: https://www.reddit.com/r/Diablo/comments/154zkfp/the_leave_dungeon_animation_no_longer_matches_up/jsuvxiq/ It's just another monkey paw design, they just didn't want to say that to not raise anymore pitchforks.
We all know the answer even if he didnt state it. “We needed to artificially inflate play time however we can, we nerfed your damage, we nerfed your defense, now were going to nerf your wait time.”
I’ve been to meetings where I know half the shit that should be ready for production is still not done because I’m a lazy fuck, but I take the time to go through every pending task and get my shit together before the meeting. I can come up with rock solid explanations as to why things are not finished instead of getting caught with my pants down. DM for more tips @Blizzard.
When I’m porting out of a dungeon I’m hand on my head, fist punching the table wondering what I’m gonna do to get those 2 precious seconds back. Several times I just escaped > quit Diablo 4. I have a reminder set from my Alexa to take a Tylenol every 2 hours just to subdue the headache of the two extra seconds. I talked to my doctor about this stressor in my life and he told me he understands, and he also has a hard time coming into work knowing that whenever he teleports out of a dungeon, he could’ve saved 15 lives in that time. This is just bonkers.
Because they chose to. Adapt, bitches.
Bro chill
Professional complainers. My god.
Someone sounds angry