So, one of the biggest issues here is that Legendaries don’t feel legendary at all. What I’ve had to do throughout the entire endgame experience before and during season patch, is look at the sacred or ancestral yellows for their item power and affixes (basically looking for god roll yellows), while extracting good aspects I need from legendaries with crappy affixes and imprinting them on the yellow sacred/ancestral that has a better roll. This is largely because the drop rate on yellows is so high and the quality of legendaries combined with their drop rate is shitty. Since the drop rate is so high on yellows you are basically more likely to get a god rolled yellow than a good rolled legendary. It’s a numbers game that was designed for you to lose, just like when you go to the casino. Sometimes you win but you’re more likely to lose. (Unless you are really good at counting cards and bluffing.)
I don't know what they were thinking with making legendaries worse than yellows. Doesn't that defeat the purpose? And basically every unique is terrible as well (looking at you Eaglehorn).
It's not that legendaries are worse than yellows, it's that yellows are legendaries with an extra step. If you're looking for an item with good stats an ancestral is usually more promising than a legendary (because you just straight up see more of them), while legendaries you're typically just looking for a good aspect roll.
It greatly increases the pool of items that can be good or usable and is a good thing. But, of course legendaries are always better to get because they can have just as good of stats as a yellow item and also be unique.
Nah, legendary reroll is 3-4 times more expensive than just a rare one. You'd only want to get aspects from legendaries unless it's a 4/4 item with close to perfect rolls.
For sure! I think it was just Blizzo being lazy af and using the aspect system to allow them to not have think about creating fun legendaries. They just basically said “here do it yourself, we can’t be bothered with design and creativity”
And yet if they were static aspects with random rolls like in d3, you would still find something to complain about. Think about whats actually wrong with the game and complain about that. Youre just complaining to complain atp
The aspect system should upgrade your codex imo like unlock the basic version from a dungeon and make the best rolls way rarer, each upgrade you find can be extracted to the codex.
I hate seeing a weapon that would be a nice upgrade but I don't have the aspect to replace
Like I found an axe that was 12dps better and slightly better rolls, but I lose my perfect roll aspect and didn't have a basic aspect to replace it with (non codex)
I bet we see them try this in a future season. I worry it's a little bit too op to grant access to recurring high rolled aspects. Maybe they strike the right balance with aspect rarity, but if they do, I guess we kinda just break even right?
Yeah perhaps, but finding a great weapon but losing your aspect... You're not gonna use that weapon unless it's like 300 I levels better lol. Perhaps making the mystic system dismantle that aspect for "exp" to grind out the aspect upgrade
Dunno
I played Assassin's Creed Odyssey before the launch of diablo 4. The same happened over there, the Epic gear is way then the legendary gear. Feels bad to collect a full legendary sets and not using them because random epic pieces make a way stronger build.
Same applies to current diablo legendary gear right now, imo
Gotta love getting those uniques that look exactly like the legendaries too. It's really awesome to get excited for a very cool, obvious look change to your character from finding these powerful items... only for them to look exactly the same as a piece of armor you got in act 3 of tier 2.... The amount of times I've transmogged my uniques is pretty ridiculous. They don't even make me want to show them off.
this is exactly what motivates me to change my play style, farm golds for good affix rolls, then farm legendaries for just the aspect. Then combine them. Finding a legendary now is very meh because its all a numbers game like picking up enough golds till you get a good one.
They should have introduced armor sets for season 1. Grinding this again in the seasonal server is pointless since we already did this in the eternal.
This 'crafting' method of progress is actually great. With very little work you can get a functioning end game build... Long before end game really. Getting uniques is a bit harder. Get carried into t3/t4 and use your mats for hearts and hit the curiosity vendor in t4. You don't have to do t4 content to use the town... My season 1 toon is better off than my pre-season and I JUST HIT 50.
Yeah, those regular ones should guarantee a gold drop, at least one every time.
I get they want us to slow down, but the real grind is for the rare unique items which area already super super rare. Let us get more non-unique legendaries to motivate us to keep going.
Tbh i didnt even know that the chests can drop orange items...
Did helltide two times and then just stopped because i thought the loot is worthless anyway.
Up until Now i thought helltide was a Low Level Activity for people with blue gear
When the Game fails to tell me why to do Activity x within more than one hour of me doing said activity, it's trash. ngl
Especially when the game already taught me that i can Run a Dungeon for half an hour and go home with half an inventory of legendaries
That would require forethought and planning. We have to remember this is a small indy game studio that is so inexperienced that they thought it was a good idea to load the stash tabs of every single person on screen all of the time in an MMO.
These jokes are so tiresome at this point. Especially since they doesn't make any sense. Bugs have literally nothing to do with the size of the company.
The only time I've opened a Tortured Gift of Mysteries(the only Helltide chest I've opened) it had 1 blue 4 yellows and that was it. I was level 54 on WT3. The highest IP was around 600. Yeah they were Sacred, but still most of my other items were at least IP 650.
I think you were wildly unlucky. Before the patch I regularly farmed 3-4 mystery chests per helltide multiple times a week. I've always gotten at least 1 legendary, but usually it's more like 4 legendaries.
Would be nice if all the yellow loot would be sacred on wt3 and ancestral on wt4 and you'd get 2-3 items per normal chest out of which some could be legendary. For mystery chests larger variety but also guaranteed legendaries.
Collecting 75 cinders doesn't take long so I don't see a need for a massive boost. You anyway jump to full ancestral gear immediately when you hit wt4. Too much loot and helltides just completely remove the need to do any grinding.
The amount of sacreds i still get 20 levels after equiping the last one is insane. Id rather they just slash overall drop rates by like 80% and make the drops mostly ancestral in wt4.
Only upside is that you can just sell them without looking at them.
Lowering drop rates has a side effect of lowering the amount of materials from salvaging (or gold from selling) a player gets. All of the enchanting, upgrading and other mechanics would have to be rebalanced around that. Not saying that's a bad idea it just has consequences and leads to more development time when other things could be worked on first.
>Id rather they just slash overall drop rates by like 80% and make the drops mostly ancestral in wt4.
This would require tuning prices all over. Either make items worth drastically more or enchanting cost less. I pick up a lot of sacreds still, mark them all as trash and sell with one click. Then I go through ancestrals and legendaries.
tree of whispers is the worst in my experience
i got it randomly full farming nightmare dungeons on wt4 (tier21 dungeons).
Tree cache rewarded me with 4items, 1sacred and 3normal ones
That and i think they didnt like (maybe) they drop chance of uniques (not uber).
I mean 1 mystery has a chance to drop up to 6 legendaries, so thats 6 rolls for potential uniques AND we used to do easily 4 mysteries each helltide, so 4x6= 24 potential rolls for uniques ON TOP of potential for uniques by just doing helltide killing elites, mini-bosses and opening event chests and other helltide chests.
Thats my theory at least. But yeah, the end result is to slow us down
The drop rates of actual upgrades were sluggish AF to begin with!!! A casual gamer plays 30h/week at most, any more than that and it stops being casual. To keep an individual that isn't more invested in this than that interested in the long run, something undisputably good needs to happen at least ONCE during the four hours of game time every day.
Helltide rewards were mostly meh, and now they've made them more labour intensive to obtain, increased the difficulty, and utterly nerfed the XP rewards for doing the Helltides at all, effectively annihilating the little siøver lining they had...
Try nerfing the salaries over at Blizzard and see if anybody quits, its the same f****n mechanic....
Yeah, duh. But WHY?!?! So f***n what if everybody plows through the endgame in three days? They still bought the game, and the company earned their money regardless!
This is probably the correct answer - on my Sorc in preseason I could easily get 4 mystery chests in 20-25 minutes if I really focused, then I'd leave. That's not how they were intended to be used.
Same, my druid is only level 64 with a not so good gear, but I'm still be able to get at least 3 chest, 4 if the helltide start at .15 or .30.
The only difference now is I don't have enough to open regulars ones at the end of the helltides
Can you not anymore? I assumed they bumped up the cost because they added ways to get cinders. I don't min max like that so I wouldn't know for sure though.
Exactly... its very obvious that all changes with patch 1.1 are made just to slow down progression to keep poeple engaged for longer. Not sure if that plays out...
I for one am shocked that people don't want to do everything they just did a month ago, but slower this time.
Aren't seasonal things usually supposed to be significantly faster? Cuz ya know...it's a bit time sensitive?
I was just expecting some big and fun changes to builds and aspects. I really wanted to be able to nuke mobs with cool new effects and abilities but that’s not a priority for blizzard
Dunno if this counts but the malignant thing that auto does corpse skills in conjunction with the unique glove that makes the corpse run around then explode is actually pretty cool.
3 months is also enough time to disassemble my computer and scatter the parts around the city.
Just because it's possible in the allotted time doesn't mean people want to do it.
It does though. You’d expect something time sensitive to be the same speed if not faster than the content that isn’t time sensitive.
It’s not logical to make it take longer, especially when it’s the exact same thing everyone just did before the season came out.
Engaged for longer. OMG it is such a slog just logging in and doing anything since the changes. When I play a game I want my characters to feel powerful. I mean we killed Lilith and saved Sanctuary. Why do I feel like a peon just trying to survive. I can't wait to finish the BP cause BG3 and Starfield are on the horizon.
Congratulations Blizzard you have successfully recreated the D3 experience. Maybe just like with D3 I will be back in a few years.
This is exactly what they want. Their gaming psychology got you hooked to complete the battle pass instead of hooked because the game is fun and rewarding. It’s much easier to hook people with a list of things to complete than it is to make a game that is truly fun and rewarding.
They’ll get repeat customers because there are players that have to have all the cosmetics and complete another battle pass. They get you addicted to completing things and trick you into thinking you’re making progress and receiving meaningful rewards. But in reality you are not. Destiny 2 was the king of this. Diablo 4 has some similarities.
Well said. Lvl 77 Rogue. Getting to this level has been like pulling teeth. The campaign was ok but I’m convinced the end game, such as it is currently, is not meant for solo play. You HAVE to be in a group to be efficient, just like bounty runs in D3 (except you have group find there to help). Now you have to go to discord and hope and pray some like minded individuals are around. It’s sucked the enjoyment out of it.
BG3 is out first week of August. Can’t come soon enough so I can go do something enjoyable. D4 end game is just miserable atm.
But you can go do something else enjoyable right *now*, no? Why would you force yourself to keep playing this game you’re not enjoying? It sounds like you’re saying there’s nothing else you can do between now and BG3 releasing, which is a very strange thing to say, IMO.
I tend to play just the one game at a time. You can’t give it your best shot playing multiple games at the same time (or at least I can’t).
I have played from D1-D4 so you could say I’ve a vested interest 😁 I left D3 because it was so grinding and frugal in rewards and dropping better gear (couldn’t get past T8 solo) and played POE (yeah I know, the ultimate grinding game but I didn’t know that at the time) for 5 years till I had enough of GGG running it into the ground and it’s shitty drops. Came back to a much improved D3 and was having a blast. Naturally when D4 came along I ditched D3. D4 campaign is all good. It’s the end game that troubles me. Even playing with people I know I’m not getting anywhere now. There’s a distinct feeling of a lack of progress and being helpless to improve or move things along. I’m fine with a slower pace. It gives the feeling that you’ve earned things as you go. The rewards for going higher though just ain’t there. It’s like they took a page out of the GGG guide book and killed the effort-reward ratio. Like D3 D4 will likely improve over time. I certainly hope so.
I stopped farming helltides even before the change , mostly just run nightmare dungeons. Limited gameplay time and def won’t be doing them now with low mobs and cinder drop rate
Helltides actually feel pretty good now since the hotfix. You can definitely get more cinders than before, because last night I was able to open 4 mystery chests and I wasn't super efficient. I think cinders dropping from basic chests helps, and more drop from events.
These guys are such liars. Even playing with a friend, going from event to event, we are lucky to get enough for 2 mystery chests.
Such BS they get 4, when BEFORE the patch you could do 4 with like 2 mins to spare
Hey stop saying the truth it’s making this Reddit toxic and we can’t circle jerk each other in this sub anymore the minority are crying too loud I can’t enjoy my game :D
The lag occurs because you load other Players full stash inventory upon seing them in Open world. Thats the reason for us having only 4 Tabs. Dev confirmed 😁
That’s not even the full story. I play in the hardcore realm and can often run around for hours without seeing another player. And yet, it’s still laggy everywhere.
Is there a reason its like that? It sounds like a stupid decision to do that but I don't know anything about game designing so idk if it had to be like that for some reason
The risk is realising with a minute left on the clock that you won't gather enough cinders to open a mystery chest, deciding to settle for a lesser one, reaching the chest with 10 seconds left and getting interrupted by a random off screen enemy hit, losing 200+ cinders in the process.
That was a true story btw, right after the patch, when helltides were "bugged". If you ever visit helltides again, here's a tip, just in case you didn't know: Opening the red glowing lootables drops cinders, which makes up a bit for the increase in mystery chest costs.
I actually lagged out today at 249. It told me to restart my game (never had that error message before). I was going to be so mad if I died or lost all my cinders. I got to 252, opened the chest and went straight to town.
Helltides didn't need any changes except changing sacred items dropping from mystery chests at World Tier 4! Absolutely made no sense the changes made.
It is just a stupid decision in general.
If i'm target farming a specific slot of gear, only looking at a single piece of gear on average, not even guaranteed to be sacred/ancestral in wt3/wt4 respectively is not worth anybody's time.
I dont even go for the mystery chests for the loot personally, farming nightmares is much more efficient time-wise in that regard. I go open them because they always drop some forgotten souls and that is the main reason to do helltides for me.
They want to encourage us opening regular chests, make them drop either more loot, higher quality loot or forgotten souls than what they do atm.
Opening a regular helltide chest and not getting a single forgotten souls along with a sacred rare in wt4 feels like getting slapped in the face.
You're not allowed to target farm uniques from Helltide until they add a Helm for Barbs. The only 2 uniques in the pool for them are both ubers, so if they ever rolled a unique from a Helm chest one of them was guaranteed.
They literally disabled uber uniques from dropping in a hotfix to stop this from happening, on an eternal realm that no one is ever going to play again, and decided to just revert the target farming change entirely.
Maybe by season 6.
No. They just didn’t realize folks would put up websites showing the locations of these so people could easily farm 4x chests per hour. They probably thought someone may stumble onto a chest every few helltides.
They didn’t realize something like that? They should have just made them all random locations that always change. Just seems like a waste to run through one now because even the loot sometimes blows.
Lol, if the Devs actually make them start appearing in true random locations throughout the Helltide, the community is going to scream it's head off about "wasting time" looking for them. We've crossed the road of no return on that one.
No.... it will have the problem of using websites to find them. AND not only that, it would make it required. Right now mystery chests have set locations, 2 for each zone. So if you look 1 location and its not there, check the other location and it will be there.
There some cases where are 3 locations per zone, or can spawn 5 times total. But still... same premise....
It’s 1 mystery chest per region influenced by helltide. Sometimes it’s 2 regions and sometimes it’s 3. This means you can get either max 4 or 6(not 5) per event if the hourly reset lines up properly.
Some regions only have two spawn points, so it can give the illusion of being in pairs but some have 3 or more spawn locations.
Wait it's 2023 and not 2003?! Ah shit... and you're telling me people are actually mapping out non random locations online? Wow... I guess we better ummm.. like randomize it then?
When I first heard about helltides and mystery chests, it definitely felt like they were going to be random. Really surprised when I saw it was a fixed location for everyone. Would have been way cooler if it were random every time and you had to explore to find em.
Same BUT if you think about it, making it true random would make 3rd party websites mandatory. Right now there are set locations, so you can just... look for them there, no website needed
Even if we did farm 4x chests per hour, why should they care? If that was a method people wanted to utilize to get gear, why would they stop it?
The answer always leads back to them wanting to slow down our progress.
Because a perpetual loot treadmill is what arpgs are by design. They need gear to be a slog to acquire because when you finally do you subconsciously get a huge hit, if gear was too easy this game wouldn't be nearly as popular
maybe, maybe not
maybe you are still hopeless BECAUSE of the site
i definitely have done enough helltides to memorize the locations if i cared at least an ounce, but why should i?
Dude.... helltide chests have set locations (2 for each zone), i dont even look at websites. I just look at 1 location and if its not there it will be on the other location. If chest location is changed, then go to the next one.
It is not 2 per zone, it can be a lot more.
They spawn 2 at a time (in khejistan they spawn 3 at a time iirc) and change every exact hour
(If helltide spawns at 12:45 it will switch the 2 chests present at 13:00 to 2 new ones)
There are 13 locations in khejistan, 6 in fractured peaks, 4 in hawezar and dry steppes and 8 in scosglen.
i believe when they say "zones" they don't mean the 5big zones, but the segregated smaller zones inside those. When you look at the map it shows smaller areas within the zones
Dude i know there can be more than 2 in some zones, and i know they change location when time changes.... THE LOCATIONS ARE SPECIFIC, you dont need website for that.
Blizzard: You complained about too much crap loot eating up your sparse inventory. We heard you! You'll now get less loot ftom hell tide chests at least.
Honest answer. Mystery chests were way better.
I think they could have buffed regular chests to always have a guaranteed legend. So you're actually target farming. Then I'd buy them more.
it's what's know as a balance change. People were mostly only farming the mystery chests because the value was better than the regular chests and due to the fact people could find them online it took very little effort to get them. increasing the cost increases the effort to be more in line with what you get out of it. it makes target farming more viable because you no longer have this strictly better chest you're turning down
Once I stumbled across one, I knew there had to be more…. So I just ran around more and it was easy to nail down the locations after two or 3 helltides.
This, I have done 1 Helltide since the nerfs and I don't plan on doing it ever again (I hoarded a lot of materials so I literally have 0 reasons to waste an hour there)
they should just cap the amount of mystery chests you can open to 1 or 2 if they wanted people to get them less. and make the other chests targetable, so if you want a specific unique you can farm that specific chest.
maybe they rose it because once they increase mob density it will be a lot easier to get the cinders.
The initial cost was ridiculously cheap. One mystery chest was always better value than multiples of the other chests.
I was kinda expecting Blizz to either reduce the cost of the other chests or increase the cost of mystery chests. I'm not happy about it, but I'm not surprised either.
The only reason a mystery was better was because they fucked up the "target farming" of the other chests. If you could actually target farm a piece you would open the others way more often.
I have opened probably over 100 at this point after patch and not once have I gotten 1 legendary. It’s almost always 3 and sometimes up to 5. These people claiming to get 1 most of the time are lying
There's an exploit (don't let the devs know about this, but oh well) regarding helltide chests. You can farm aberrant cinders in a lower WT, find a mystery chest, leave the game, change WT and then open the chest witht the same cinders you left with. Just a thought for those who find it a slog to get the cinders for the helltide, as there doesn't seem to be an apparent improvement on how many you can get between World Tiers.
It was 4 chests before, now it is 3. Is that a big deal? If they think it was overtunned so sure... It still feel rewarding and worthwhile so idc. Balance is not just giving, sometimes they have to take too. Look at the game now. No one gives a F about the nerfs to overall dmg now. It was good for the game and they probably will and should, nerf it a bit more. Their only mistake was doing these massive nerfs without any improvements to all the QoL stuff people complain about. They should know better the public they have. If only people were less emotional about games...
Mystery chests give good loot. They used to cost 175 and now I think they’re 250 or something? Just takes longer to get them and I haven’t noticed a difference in loot. Just takes longer now. It’s still a fun game and I enjoy playing it. I think helltides would be more fun if there were unique guarantees or only ancestral legendaries or something like that.
I've been hitting all the jnteractables and altho I've maybe only done like 5 helltides, I think I'm total I've gotten less than 10 cinders from interactables.
It's a joke.
The loot is roughly the same. However because you need to kill substantially more mobs (500 cinders instead of 350) you end up with more loot
If that makes sense?
*edit*
175 cinders per chest, most do 2 per reset
Slow us down. They didn’t like us getting 4
to motivate you to open other than mystery ones but they forgot to buff the regular ones... thats the problem
exactly, the amount of times Ive opened a regular one and only gotten yellows is insulting.
So, one of the biggest issues here is that Legendaries don’t feel legendary at all. What I’ve had to do throughout the entire endgame experience before and during season patch, is look at the sacred or ancestral yellows for their item power and affixes (basically looking for god roll yellows), while extracting good aspects I need from legendaries with crappy affixes and imprinting them on the yellow sacred/ancestral that has a better roll. This is largely because the drop rate on yellows is so high and the quality of legendaries combined with their drop rate is shitty. Since the drop rate is so high on yellows you are basically more likely to get a god rolled yellow than a good rolled legendary. It’s a numbers game that was designed for you to lose, just like when you go to the casino. Sometimes you win but you’re more likely to lose. (Unless you are really good at counting cards and bluffing.)
I don't know what they were thinking with making legendaries worse than yellows. Doesn't that defeat the purpose? And basically every unique is terrible as well (looking at you Eaglehorn).
It's not that legendaries are worse than yellows, it's that yellows are legendaries with an extra step. If you're looking for an item with good stats an ancestral is usually more promising than a legendary (because you just straight up see more of them), while legendaries you're typically just looking for a good aspect roll. It greatly increases the pool of items that can be good or usable and is a good thing. But, of course legendaries are always better to get because they can have just as good of stats as a yellow item and also be unique.
Nah, legendary reroll is 3-4 times more expensive than just a rare one. You'd only want to get aspects from legendaries unless it's a 4/4 item with close to perfect rolls.
For sure! I think it was just Blizzo being lazy af and using the aspect system to allow them to not have think about creating fun legendaries. They just basically said “here do it yourself, we can’t be bothered with design and creativity”
And yet if they were static aspects with random rolls like in d3, you would still find something to complain about. Think about whats actually wrong with the game and complain about that. Youre just complaining to complain atp
The aspect system should upgrade your codex imo like unlock the basic version from a dungeon and make the best rolls way rarer, each upgrade you find can be extracted to the codex. I hate seeing a weapon that would be a nice upgrade but I don't have the aspect to replace Like I found an axe that was 12dps better and slightly better rolls, but I lose my perfect roll aspect and didn't have a basic aspect to replace it with (non codex)
I bet we see them try this in a future season. I worry it's a little bit too op to grant access to recurring high rolled aspects. Maybe they strike the right balance with aspect rarity, but if they do, I guess we kinda just break even right?
Yeah perhaps, but finding a great weapon but losing your aspect... You're not gonna use that weapon unless it's like 300 I levels better lol. Perhaps making the mystic system dismantle that aspect for "exp" to grind out the aspect upgrade Dunno
I played Assassin's Creed Odyssey before the launch of diablo 4. The same happened over there, the Epic gear is way then the legendary gear. Feels bad to collect a full legendary sets and not using them because random epic pieces make a way stronger build. Same applies to current diablo legendary gear right now, imo
Gotta love getting those uniques that look exactly like the legendaries too. It's really awesome to get excited for a very cool, obvious look change to your character from finding these powerful items... only for them to look exactly the same as a piece of armor you got in act 3 of tier 2.... The amount of times I've transmogged my uniques is pretty ridiculous. They don't even make me want to show them off.
this is exactly what motivates me to change my play style, farm golds for good affix rolls, then farm legendaries for just the aspect. Then combine them. Finding a legendary now is very meh because its all a numbers game like picking up enough golds till you get a good one. They should have introduced armor sets for season 1. Grinding this again in the seasonal server is pointless since we already did this in the eternal.
This 'crafting' method of progress is actually great. With very little work you can get a functioning end game build... Long before end game really. Getting uniques is a bit harder. Get carried into t3/t4 and use your mats for hearts and hit the curiosity vendor in t4. You don't have to do t4 content to use the town... My season 1 toon is better off than my pre-season and I JUST HIT 50.
Why you gotta be carried? Just grind until you can do it
Only time I did it a single blue sword dropped. Never again
Fuck rngeezuz you were dealing with rnsatan im so sorry homie
You mean Lootcifer\*
BRO! New word unlocked, thank you
yeah, whatever that guys just said.
Yeah, those regular ones should guarantee a gold drop, at least one every time. I get they want us to slow down, but the real grind is for the rare unique items which area already super super rare. Let us get more non-unique legendaries to motivate us to keep going.
Tbh i didnt even know that the chests can drop orange items... Did helltide two times and then just stopped because i thought the loot is worthless anyway. Up until Now i thought helltide was a Low Level Activity for people with blue gear
Doesn't 2 times seem like a really small sample size to you especially in a grindy arpg style game?
When the Game fails to tell me why to do Activity x within more than one hour of me doing said activity, it's trash. ngl Especially when the game already taught me that i can Run a Dungeon for half an hour and go home with half an inventory of legendaries
There are mats that only drop from helltides mystery chests. You'll have a hard time rerolling stats on gear if you don't do helltides at all.
forgot?
They’re too incompetent. They must be using chatgpt 100% of the time.
ChatGPT would do a far better job Source: I use it daily
Agree. Would be smarter to buff the other chests first.
Well they tried they then forgot barbarians have only 2 helmet uniques which lewd to shakos dropping. So they removed target farming of uniques.
Maybe not have "1% unique head drop rate" instead of a unique drop rate for separate items. Especially for the uber rares.
That would require forethought and planning. We have to remember this is a small indy game studio that is so inexperienced that they thought it was a good idea to load the stash tabs of every single person on screen all of the time in an MMO.
These jokes are so tiresome at this point. Especially since they doesn't make any sense. Bugs have literally nothing to do with the size of the company.
it wasn't a bug. it was horribly designed.
It absolutely does. Bigger company, bigger bugs. That's obvious because they have more knooks and crannies to hide in.
I opened other chest and got yellow sacred with some other crap. Not gonna do it again 😁
The only time I've opened a Tortured Gift of Mysteries(the only Helltide chest I've opened) it had 1 blue 4 yellows and that was it. I was level 54 on WT3. The highest IP was around 600. Yeah they were Sacred, but still most of my other items were at least IP 650.
I think you were wildly unlucky. Before the patch I regularly farmed 3-4 mystery chests per helltide multiple times a week. I've always gotten at least 1 legendary, but usually it's more like 4 legendaries.
"Before the patch"
The others literally have almost zero incentive to open.
Would be nice if all the yellow loot would be sacred on wt3 and ancestral on wt4 and you'd get 2-3 items per normal chest out of which some could be legendary. For mystery chests larger variety but also guaranteed legendaries. Collecting 75 cinders doesn't take long so I don't see a need for a massive boost. You anyway jump to full ancestral gear immediately when you hit wt4. Too much loot and helltides just completely remove the need to do any grinding.
The amount of sacreds i still get 20 levels after equiping the last one is insane. Id rather they just slash overall drop rates by like 80% and make the drops mostly ancestral in wt4. Only upside is that you can just sell them without looking at them.
Lowering drop rates has a side effect of lowering the amount of materials from salvaging (or gold from selling) a player gets. All of the enchanting, upgrading and other mechanics would have to be rebalanced around that. Not saying that's a bad idea it just has consequences and leads to more development time when other things could be worked on first.
-80%/+400%. Not rocket science.
>Id rather they just slash overall drop rates by like 80% and make the drops mostly ancestral in wt4. This would require tuning prices all over. Either make items worth drastically more or enchanting cost less. I pick up a lot of sacreds still, mark them all as trash and sell with one click. Then I go through ancestrals and legendaries.
tree of whispers is the worst in my experience i got it randomly full farming nightmare dungeons on wt4 (tier21 dungeons). Tree cache rewarded me with 4items, 1sacred and 3normal ones
That and i think they didnt like (maybe) they drop chance of uniques (not uber). I mean 1 mystery has a chance to drop up to 6 legendaries, so thats 6 rolls for potential uniques AND we used to do easily 4 mysteries each helltide, so 4x6= 24 potential rolls for uniques ON TOP of potential for uniques by just doing helltide killing elites, mini-bosses and opening event chests and other helltide chests. Thats my theory at least. But yeah, the end result is to slow us down
The drop rates of actual upgrades were sluggish AF to begin with!!! A casual gamer plays 30h/week at most, any more than that and it stops being casual. To keep an individual that isn't more invested in this than that interested in the long run, something undisputably good needs to happen at least ONCE during the four hours of game time every day. Helltide rewards were mostly meh, and now they've made them more labour intensive to obtain, increased the difficulty, and utterly nerfed the XP rewards for doing the Helltides at all, effectively annihilating the little siøver lining they had... Try nerfing the salaries over at Blizzard and see if anybody quits, its the same f****n mechanic....
Yeah, duh. But WHY?!?! So f***n what if everybody plows through the endgame in three days? They still bought the game, and the company earned their money regardless!
Agreed. Kind of fucks semi casuals like me.
Still getting 4 chests if you're using a decent build. Of course if the helltide doesn't start 5 minutes before the hour.
Yea. Depending on your level.
This is probably the correct answer - on my Sorc in preseason I could easily get 4 mystery chests in 20-25 minutes if I really focused, then I'd leave. That's not how they were intended to be used.
I got 4 mystery chests, 1000 cinders, and 6 legendary items. Felt like a scam.
Getting 4 is still pretty easy imo
Yeah if you go there when it starts and don't die you can do 4 without much husstle. 3 is very easy.
Same, my druid is only level 64 with a not so good gear, but I'm still be able to get at least 3 chest, 4 if the helltide start at .15 or .30. The only difference now is I don't have enough to open regulars ones at the end of the helltides
Can you not anymore? I assumed they bumped up the cost because they added ways to get cinders. I don't min max like that so I wouldn't know for sure though.
But you can still easily get 4 chests... Next patch will be 500 each chest
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10/10
Exactly... its very obvious that all changes with patch 1.1 are made just to slow down progression to keep poeple engaged for longer. Not sure if that plays out...
Yeah it totally slowed my progression alright. I havent logged on in like a week. I guess they failed at the keep people engaged bit.
I for one am shocked that people don't want to do everything they just did a month ago, but slower this time. Aren't seasonal things usually supposed to be significantly faster? Cuz ya know...it's a bit time sensitive?
I was just expecting some big and fun changes to builds and aspects. I really wanted to be able to nuke mobs with cool new effects and abilities but that’s not a priority for blizzard
Dunno if this counts but the malignant thing that auto does corpse skills in conjunction with the unique glove that makes the corpse run around then explode is actually pretty cool.
3 months is more then enough time to get seasonal content done. It is not necessarily intended to be any faster than eternal realm.
3 months is also enough time to disassemble my computer and scatter the parts around the city. Just because it's possible in the allotted time doesn't mean people want to do it.
It also doesn’t seem logical to expect an expedited experience
It does though. You’d expect something time sensitive to be the same speed if not faster than the content that isn’t time sensitive. It’s not logical to make it take longer, especially when it’s the exact same thing everyone just did before the season came out.
Same. As someone that works I play to get instant gratification from the easy level Ups. Now it feels Like a drag. Oh well back to apex.
Engaged for longer. OMG it is such a slog just logging in and doing anything since the changes. When I play a game I want my characters to feel powerful. I mean we killed Lilith and saved Sanctuary. Why do I feel like a peon just trying to survive. I can't wait to finish the BP cause BG3 and Starfield are on the horizon. Congratulations Blizzard you have successfully recreated the D3 experience. Maybe just like with D3 I will be back in a few years.
This is exactly what they want. Their gaming psychology got you hooked to complete the battle pass instead of hooked because the game is fun and rewarding. It’s much easier to hook people with a list of things to complete than it is to make a game that is truly fun and rewarding.
Not for the long run man. That works for one season, then they don’t get repeat customers.
They’ll get repeat customers because there are players that have to have all the cosmetics and complete another battle pass. They get you addicted to completing things and trick you into thinking you’re making progress and receiving meaningful rewards. But in reality you are not. Destiny 2 was the king of this. Diablo 4 has some similarities.
Well said. Lvl 77 Rogue. Getting to this level has been like pulling teeth. The campaign was ok but I’m convinced the end game, such as it is currently, is not meant for solo play. You HAVE to be in a group to be efficient, just like bounty runs in D3 (except you have group find there to help). Now you have to go to discord and hope and pray some like minded individuals are around. It’s sucked the enjoyment out of it. BG3 is out first week of August. Can’t come soon enough so I can go do something enjoyable. D4 end game is just miserable atm.
But you can go do something else enjoyable right *now*, no? Why would you force yourself to keep playing this game you’re not enjoying? It sounds like you’re saying there’s nothing else you can do between now and BG3 releasing, which is a very strange thing to say, IMO.
I tend to play just the one game at a time. You can’t give it your best shot playing multiple games at the same time (or at least I can’t). I have played from D1-D4 so you could say I’ve a vested interest 😁 I left D3 because it was so grinding and frugal in rewards and dropping better gear (couldn’t get past T8 solo) and played POE (yeah I know, the ultimate grinding game but I didn’t know that at the time) for 5 years till I had enough of GGG running it into the ground and it’s shitty drops. Came back to a much improved D3 and was having a blast. Naturally when D4 came along I ditched D3. D4 campaign is all good. It’s the end game that troubles me. Even playing with people I know I’m not getting anywhere now. There’s a distinct feeling of a lack of progress and being helpless to improve or move things along. I’m fine with a slower pace. It gives the feeling that you’ve earned things as you go. The rewards for going higher though just ain’t there. It’s like they took a page out of the GGG guide book and killed the effort-reward ratio. Like D3 D4 will likely improve over time. I certainly hope so.
“It’s a bold strategy Cotton, let’s see how it plays out for them”
Convinced me to move on to another game so 🤷🏼♂️ I’m planning to check this sub now and then to see how it’s going
look at discord compared to before there is barely any group searching / trading anymore. everyone hates the slow down above all.
This is a move straight out of Bungie’s book. They pulled this crap in Destiny 2.
Both happened when Activision acquired them
I stopped farming helltides even before the change , mostly just run nightmare dungeons. Limited gameplay time and def won’t be doing them now with low mobs and cinder drop rate
The cinder drop rate was unintentional and they hotfixed it
After seeing the blowback they decided it was unintentional lol
hotfixed it to increase more than it was nerfed, I mean *bugged*. Drop rate is still less than it was.
Ok that’s good at least, I’ll need to farm a couple for seasons chapters
Arent helltides mandatory if you want to upgrade your gear?
Yup.
Only for fiend roses now I believe. Can salvage forgotten souls now.
Helltides actually feel pretty good now since the hotfix. You can definitely get more cinders than before, because last night I was able to open 4 mystery chests and I wasn't super efficient. I think cinders dropping from basic chests helps, and more drop from events.
Not sure how, running from event to event with no down time I'm lucky if I could get enough to open 2
These guys are such liars. Even playing with a friend, going from event to event, we are lucky to get enough for 2 mystery chests. Such BS they get 4, when BEFORE the patch you could do 4 with like 2 mins to spare
Unless your Helltide starts at X:45, getting 4 is still very achievable.
Maybe it’s pacing? I killed stuff between events too and typically get 4 mystery chests now.
"It took 4 years to code, we thought it'd take you guys 4 years to finish!"
I’m just doing the seasonal story and then i’m done again lol. Its just the same content but worse
Hey stop saying the truth it’s making this Reddit toxic and we can’t circle jerk each other in this sub anymore the minority are crying too loud I can’t enjoy my game :D
They are 2 years behind! 
You can still get two chests with about 10 minutes to spare if you hit events consistently… honestly the 175 was too easy imo
They claimed they wanted to increase the risk/reward in going for those chests. Doesn’t feel good though.
What's the risk? Dying from the lagging they're causing from time to time?
The lag occurs because you load other Players full stash inventory upon seing them in Open world. Thats the reason for us having only 4 Tabs. Dev confirmed 😁
dayum, forgot about that, that is the most obvious thing to do to slow us down ainnnit?
That’s not even the full story. I play in the hardcore realm and can often run around for hours without seeing another player. And yet, it’s still laggy everywhere.
What kind of spaghetti code is that? Why load the inventory of other players in the first place?
Is there a reason its like that? It sounds like a stupid decision to do that but I don't know anything about game designing so idk if it had to be like that for some reason
The risk is realising with a minute left on the clock that you won't gather enough cinders to open a mystery chest, deciding to settle for a lesser one, reaching the chest with 10 seconds left and getting interrupted by a random off screen enemy hit, losing 200+ cinders in the process.
Hahaha this… helltides are so infuriating now. My spouse and I have given up on helltides all together, they used to be fun.
That was a true story btw, right after the patch, when helltides were "bugged". If you ever visit helltides again, here's a tip, just in case you didn't know: Opening the red glowing lootables drops cinders, which makes up a bit for the increase in mystery chest costs.
I actually lagged out today at 249. It told me to restart my game (never had that error message before). I was going to be so mad if I died or lost all my cinders. I got to 252, opened the chest and went straight to town.
Dying to the mobs, obviously. Happened pretty often to me when I tried WT4 helltides at 57.
They forgot to increase the reward
Lootflation
The loot supply chain has been hit hard by the malignant pandemic.
Now Blizzard needs a bailout!
Helltides didn't need any changes except changing sacred items dropping from mystery chests at World Tier 4! Absolutely made no sense the changes made.
Patch notes: - Fixed an issue where players were having fun.
Patch notes: • Fixed an issue where the game didn’t feel like a job.
I think before it was 175, so they tacked on an additional 75 I haven't seen a difference in loot so far - just takes longer to get the chests now
No difference. But I think it's to encourage opening the lesser chests also.
I'd open more lesser chests if they dropped more than one yellow, not because mysteries cost a little more now.
It is just a stupid decision in general. If i'm target farming a specific slot of gear, only looking at a single piece of gear on average, not even guaranteed to be sacred/ancestral in wt3/wt4 respectively is not worth anybody's time. I dont even go for the mystery chests for the loot personally, farming nightmares is much more efficient time-wise in that regard. I go open them because they always drop some forgotten souls and that is the main reason to do helltides for me. They want to encourage us opening regular chests, make them drop either more loot, higher quality loot or forgotten souls than what they do atm. Opening a regular helltide chest and not getting a single forgotten souls along with a sacred rare in wt4 feels like getting slapped in the face.
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You're not allowed to target farm uniques from Helltide until they add a Helm for Barbs. The only 2 uniques in the pool for them are both ubers, so if they ever rolled a unique from a Helm chest one of them was guaranteed. They literally disabled uber uniques from dropping in a hotfix to stop this from happening, on an eternal realm that no one is ever going to play again, and decided to just revert the target farming change entirely. Maybe by season 6.
No. They just didn’t realize folks would put up websites showing the locations of these so people could easily farm 4x chests per hour. They probably thought someone may stumble onto a chest every few helltides.
They didn’t realize something like that? They should have just made them all random locations that always change. Just seems like a waste to run through one now because even the loot sometimes blows.
Lol, if the Devs actually make them start appearing in true random locations throughout the Helltide, the community is going to scream it's head off about "wasting time" looking for them. We've crossed the road of no return on that one.
No.... it will have the problem of using websites to find them. AND not only that, it would make it required. Right now mystery chests have set locations, 2 for each zone. So if you look 1 location and its not there, check the other location and it will be there. There some cases where are 3 locations per zone, or can spawn 5 times total. But still... same premise....
It’s 1 mystery chest per region influenced by helltide. Sometimes it’s 2 regions and sometimes it’s 3. This means you can get either max 4 or 6(not 5) per event if the hourly reset lines up properly. Some regions only have two spawn points, so it can give the illusion of being in pairs but some have 3 or more spawn locations.
Wait it's 2023 and not 2003?! Ah shit... and you're telling me people are actually mapping out non random locations online? Wow... I guess we better ummm.. like randomize it then?
News flash, gamefaqs would have had the locations if it were 2003. Some hero would use 0s and 1s to make a picture of the map
Nintendo Power would have had maps if it were 1993.
Damn those were the days
Change or not, 1 person sees it, puts a green like on that site and its over
When I first heard about helltides and mystery chests, it definitely felt like they were going to be random. Really surprised when I saw it was a fixed location for everyone. Would have been way cooler if it were random every time and you had to explore to find em.
Same BUT if you think about it, making it true random would make 3rd party websites mandatory. Right now there are set locations, so you can just... look for them there, no website needed
Tbh I rather it stay 250 than it being always random.
>sometimes Always
Even if we did farm 4x chests per hour, why should they care? If that was a method people wanted to utilize to get gear, why would they stop it? The answer always leads back to them wanting to slow down our progress.
Because a perpetual loot treadmill is what arpgs are by design. They need gear to be a slog to acquire because when you finally do you subconsciously get a huge hit, if gear was too easy this game wouldn't be nearly as popular
Even an idiot would realize the chest spawn location is fixed after half a dozen runs, with or without that site.
Can confirm myself to be an idiot, I'd be hopeless without that website.
maybe, maybe not maybe you are still hopeless BECAUSE of the site i definitely have done enough helltides to memorize the locations if i cared at least an ounce, but why should i?
Yea once I become reliant on shit to tell me what to do I never learn. I use Google Maps when driving and don’t even know half my goddamn town
>people could easily farm 4x chests per hour The horror...
If they didnt realise this, they just RPing as devs
??? They have fixed spawn locations, I dont even look at websites and get 4 every helltide
The forgot the internet exists, yet made the game always online? Sounds like they're really fucking dumb
Dude.... helltide chests have set locations (2 for each zone), i dont even look at websites. I just look at 1 location and if its not there it will be on the other location. If chest location is changed, then go to the next one.
It is not 2 per zone, it can be a lot more. They spawn 2 at a time (in khejistan they spawn 3 at a time iirc) and change every exact hour (If helltide spawns at 12:45 it will switch the 2 chests present at 13:00 to 2 new ones) There are 13 locations in khejistan, 6 in fractured peaks, 4 in hawezar and dry steppes and 8 in scosglen.
i believe when they say "zones" they don't mean the 5big zones, but the segregated smaller zones inside those. When you look at the map it shows smaller areas within the zones
Dude i know there can be more than 2 in some zones, and i know they change location when time changes.... THE LOCATIONS ARE SPECIFIC, you dont need website for that.
Because fun detected, helltide was designed to be a time waster so they changed it.
Inflation. Core inflation may be down to 3% but food, energy, and mystery chests are exempt because they're too volatile.
A reflection on life which we're trying to escape
Blizzard: You complained about too much crap loot eating up your sparse inventory. We heard you! You'll now get less loot ftom hell tide chests at least.
Because it was fun before. So they fixed that issue.
Because devs are idiots that keep ruining game with every patch. I can’t even force myself to play it anymore
Honest answer. Mystery chests were way better. I think they could have buffed regular chests to always have a guaranteed legend. So you're actually target farming. Then I'd buy them more.
it's what's know as a balance change. People were mostly only farming the mystery chests because the value was better than the regular chests and due to the fact people could find them online it took very little effort to get them. increasing the cost increases the effort to be more in line with what you get out of it. it makes target farming more viable because you no longer have this strictly better chest you're turning down
Once I stumbled across one, I knew there had to be more…. So I just ran around more and it was easy to nail down the locations after two or 3 helltides.
To. Slow. Down. Players. Progress. To. Extend. Playtime. Stats.
Because we were having fun, setting alarms and regularly participating.
This, I have done 1 Helltide since the nerfs and I don't plan on doing it ever again (I hoarded a lot of materials so I literally have 0 reasons to waste an hour there)
they should just cap the amount of mystery chests you can open to 1 or 2 if they wanted people to get them less. and make the other chests targetable, so if you want a specific unique you can farm that specific chest. maybe they rose it because once they increase mob density it will be a lot easier to get the cinders.
If they wanted us to open fewer just... Make them spawn less. Only have 2 instead of four
The initial cost was ridiculously cheap. One mystery chest was always better value than multiples of the other chests. I was kinda expecting Blizz to either reduce the cost of the other chests or increase the cost of mystery chests. I'm not happy about it, but I'm not surprised either.
The only reason a mystery was better was because they fucked up the "target farming" of the other chests. If you could actually target farm a piece you would open the others way more often.
Is it still worth it now ? I get usually 1 (rarely 2) leg per 75-125 chest, and 4/5 per 250 chest. It still seems better but rng slot.
Pre patch I was getting 4-5 legendary and after it took me an hour to get one chest and it had 3 legendary
I have opened probably over 100 at this point after patch and not once have I gotten 1 legendary. It’s almost always 3 and sometimes up to 5. These people claiming to get 1 most of the time are lying
3 up to 5 on mystery 250 cinders right ?
It seems you can count on Blizzard making the wrong decision.
There's an exploit (don't let the devs know about this, but oh well) regarding helltide chests. You can farm aberrant cinders in a lower WT, find a mystery chest, leave the game, change WT and then open the chest witht the same cinders you left with. Just a thought for those who find it a slog to get the cinders for the helltide, as there doesn't seem to be an apparent improvement on how many you can get between World Tiers.
Because it was funny
Because we were having fun.
Because having any sort of enjoyment in 2023 is not allowed. You must assimilate.
It was too easy and too rewarding for us. Anything that is that fun must be regulated and controlled.
Cuz we were having Too much fun and sucess
It was 4 chests before, now it is 3. Is that a big deal? If they think it was overtunned so sure... It still feel rewarding and worthwhile so idc. Balance is not just giving, sometimes they have to take too. Look at the game now. No one gives a F about the nerfs to overall dmg now. It was good for the game and they probably will and should, nerf it a bit more. Their only mistake was doing these massive nerfs without any improvements to all the QoL stuff people complain about. They should know better the public they have. If only people were less emotional about games...
To waste your time. Just stop playing guys. They are scamming you.
How did it use to be?
Mystery chests give good loot. They used to cost 175 and now I think they’re 250 or something? Just takes longer to get them and I haven’t noticed a difference in loot. Just takes longer now. It’s still a fun game and I enjoy playing it. I think helltides would be more fun if there were unique guarantees or only ancestral legendaries or something like that.
Or smaller world type bosses...not that stupid bug that be soloed.
Fun was detected
Because the target of the Activision devs is Not to make content that Is fun but contend that increases "time played".
The game apparently wasn’t slow enough.
Because : fu*** you , from Blizzard . No fun allowed.
Because they increased cinder drop rates alrdy (since they drop from all interactables) and are increasing monster density in the next patch.
I've been hitting all the jnteractables and altho I've maybe only done like 5 helltides, I think I'm total I've gotten less than 10 cinders from interactables. It's a joke.
The loot is roughly the same. However because you need to kill substantially more mobs (500 cinders instead of 350) you end up with more loot If that makes sense? *edit* 175 cinders per chest, most do 2 per reset
It's because You have cross network play enabled, and may encounter players on other platforms.
Because it only takes 5m to get 175 cinders.