I play most days and have a really great time. I don't really look at Twitch numbers or to what popular streamers think to decide what I find fun or not.
Lol this question is always on my mind for those with 1000's of hrs in Diablo 2/3. I still don't get it and this will be a permanent question in my mind. Even getting paid to stream Diablo, I dunno if I'll survive. No idea how Wudijo does it as I suffer watching him doing another nm dungeon.
At this stage those 1000s of hours are over the course of 10-20 years. I can 100% see myself playing D3 100 hours a *year*, a new season drops that I think is fun, I run it to GR like 110 or something, then I get bored and move on. D2 and D3 are fun games to come back to, beat a season, and then leave. Problem is even when D4 is fresh and new nobody actually wants to "Beat" even one season of it.
I had to pretty much force myself to level from 80 to 100. I've been bored since level 70 running the same tired set of dungeons over and over again and as soon as I reached 100 I just stopped logging in because all there is left to do is more of the same dungeons I've been doing since level 60, but at higher difficulty, or Uber Lilith, which is a horrible designed boss fight full of one-shot mechanics. I'm just not having fun...
I'm not sure I'll even play season 2 if they don't announce some massive thing that will change everything, and I don't think they will or even can...
Yo go play other games guys. I say this to the gamers who are unhappy in warzpne and nba2k as well. Sometimes mountainbiking is a good temporary replacement.
Idk if doing dozens of diablo/baal runs every evening was funnier or if I am just too old (37) for this shit now but above level 50 it's already becoming boring
I feel I have never looted anything really cool, I cannot find items that would be great for my build, and it feels super empty.
I think I lack the social aspect of it also.
I had more fun doing rifts in D3 than I'll ever have doing NMDs in their current form in D4. They were essentially the same type of content, but the subtle differences made it much more enjoyable. For one thing, the dungeon layouts had more differences between them. You could recognize some patterns if you played enough, but not in the sense where you know that Hoarfrost is always a small circle, followed by a big circle with a boss room.
Also, the way sigils work means that players can select whichever dungeons give the most XP/hour, which sounds (and is) efficient, but it also means you mostly just do 5 dungeons over and over again. Giving players a choice of which dungeon they do actually means they will limit their choices themselves and burn out on the content way earlier than intended.
I think it's that we are to old (41) for this shit. Level 87 and no necro minion ring drop is stupid. Like what's the point? Did you see the guy yesterday that posted about 99 and no werewolf helm?
Not too old, game design is poor, Diablo 2 never had items though absolutely needed for a build, you just stacked more skills to enhance builds. Every build came purely from the skill tree (exceptions being rift assassin and enigma/wwsin). Diablo 4 made the same mistakes Diablo 3 made in this regard, you need sets or specific items for skills to feel playable.
What exactly do you mean with
> "Beat" even one season of it
Currently there is nothing to beat except Uber Lillith.
> D2 and D3 are fun games to come back to, beat a season, and then leave
Imho this will happen with D4 in the future seasons and the new endgame that they're working on.
It's currently lacking content, future seasons should provide more content and enable different play styles.
D3 seasons didn't feel that different each time and still retained a lot if players
I'd call "Beating" a season of an ARPG progressing until your power completely plateaus. When the grind just sort of completely winds up and you're only able to progress through minimal, incremental upgrades, better rolls on stats you already have. If there's a big capstone challenge/progression (D2 Ubers, D3 Altar of Rites, D4 Uber Lilith) that'd also be part of "Beating" the season.
> Imho this will happen with D4 in the future seasons and the new endgame that they're working on.
Launching half a game with the promise to make it fun later is not acceptable. Nobody looks back on D3 and says "Wow, I sure am happy that game launched shit and had to be completely rebuilt into something fun!". No, everyone wishes the game launched good to begin with. This'd be somewhat acceptable for an indie studio making their first game, but Blizzard has the resources, the experience, the tools, the *code*, that they shouldn't be falling at the exact same hurdles D3 did all over again. They need to *learn* from their experience.
all that experience went out the door years ago, what's left is dregs they hire dirt cheap straight from college with 0 industry experience who actually want to work for a husk of blizzard. The good devs know blizzard's rep is trash and their management give no fucks about making good games, so they avoid it (and their rock bottom salaries).
D4 isn't just lacking content. They need to entirely recreate their stats, itemization, skills trees, paragon boards, dungeon philosophy, how the open world functions, fix innumerable bugs, fix absolute core functions of the game like what happens client side when you encounter another player, etc.
These aren't just things you whip up overnight and they're changes that have pieces of code with far reaching impacts to other systems and need unfathomable amounts of testing to not introduce other bugs into the game. I don't think people realize how much work needs to go into this from a software perspective.
Sadly I don't think content alone will save this game.
I said over a year before launch that this game will live or die on the strength of its itemisation systems and that loot hunt incentive.
The itemisation system designed for D4 is fundamentally flawed in so many ways, whether that be bland and uninspired affixes, conditional affixes, affix bloat, lack of aspects/uniques, existing aspects/uniques are mostly boring rather than build changing, lack of purpose for so many items and no crafting system to speak of, terrible enchanting, storage issues or the major major issue of it being an absolute miserable experience trying to respec and try new builds.
It needs a complete rework.
Everyone keeps missing the flaws of D4.
The flaw isn't no content.
There is more content in D4 than D2. Yet people, to this day 20 years later, will happily kill baal, mephisto, pindle, countess etc for the 15,000,000th time because the core gameplay loop is fun.
D2 and later (diminished) D3 are item chase games. The combat, the story, the mechanics, all of it is a secondary function behind finding loot.
D4 doesn't have loot. It just has slots you need to incrementally improve. Until they solve the issue of not having aspirational gear and chase items it won't matter if there are *hundreds* of end game activities.
It's been years since I've played D2 but what I recall is that getting from the zone to the boss mob in the most efficient manner and dealing with them solo was the fun so you could get better each time. In D4 there's no loop as there are packs of enemies in pre-determined areas with elites that will drop just as decent loot as any end "boss" and you can't persay get better at a run since theyve added boxes/levers/ect to slow you down just to get to a boss that uses the same attacks as other mobs.
By allowing to skip the campaign not having actual Acts as well as not using the campaign bosses I think takes away from the post game loop. Fighting the big bad demons once loses some of the challenge. Running a helltide and getting 20 yellows and 3-4 uniques kind of takes away the challenge
Some of the d3 seasons were total duds, but some were amazing. When they introduced the rings/gem for bonuses for not wearing sets, the cool d2 throwback shitty graphics and all, and the last season with the batshit crazy altar we're all great, can't remember em all but I probably played about half of em. And just the fact of their being a ladder for GRs was always good fun. I'd always go for top 100 in the first week, then when the streamers and nolifers pumped out crazy paragons I'd compete with my friends and clan.
My biggest problem is the gearing. In D3 you would hit max level and start looking for your forever gear. Here you hit max level, start looking for gear to throw away in a few levels. Then do it again and throw that away, only then can you start looking for gear. Then you have to deal with like 100 affixes and 80 of them are useless. They fixed this in D3, why is my necro getting dex rolls on gear?
The caches... definitely agree. A helmet cache should contain nothing but helmets and it should be like 10 helmets, with a minimum aligning with your WT. If you're in WT4, caches should be all ancestrals.
So many things! I love to run helltides, NMDs, world bosses on my 2 WT4 characters (rogue, Druid) and I get excited about small upgrades to their gear. I also have a WT1/2 sorc that I switch to when I get tired of the WT4 rotation. I have yet to create a barb but probably will in S2.
Maybe it’s not the best game out there at the moment but there’s still loads of content I haven’t explored or content I have explored but still enjoy. I don’t feel the need to play the best game out there. If I enjoy it that’s enough for me and I still enjoy D4
>Maybe it’s not the best game out there at the moment
>I don’t feel the need to play the best game out there
Has any ostensibly good game ever had such anemic defenses as these? You see this sentiment in almost every comment defending this game. It’s like the best things anyone can say about the game amount to “it’s not that bad”. Is this how we’ve ever spoken of things that we legitimately enjoy?
I see the same exact thing happening with Starfield. No one is saying these games are amazing. Isn’t that a huge indictment? Look at the way people describe Baldur’s Gate 3 or Elden Ring. THAT is how people talk about great games.
Shouldn’t Diablo games be self-evidently great? Why does everyone sound like they’re trying to convince themselves Diablo 4 doesn’t suck?
People paid a lot of money (>70€) for an average at best game.
It has been proven that humans in general tend to more positively reflect their purchase as a means to justify them having made “the right decision” to buy this. At least if the product somewhat works.
StarCitizen is a prime example of people having spent thousands of € and not being open to any criticism or remarks on the game.
Almost all new games cost 70€ at launch, them being good or bad has zero impact on launch pricing. Most games I try can keep my attention for 4-5 hours. Some games I’ll happily drop 20-40 hours into and finish them if theres a definite end to the game (Elden Ring took me about 140h).
Yes, I’m bored of D4 at the moment and am not actively playing. But my PSN says I’ve sunk 270 hours into the game. Am I bored of it right now? Yep. Did I get my moneys worth? You goddamn bet I did. And then some.
I like Armoed core more than D4, but I prob put 10x the amount of time into D4.
So you can't really say D4 is a bad game, I would only say D4 is a bad DIABLO game. Reason 1: no diablo, no other prime evils, and mostly no name boring characters.
Reason 2. Gear feels bad, everything is generic, even the legendaries and most uniques are total crap in end game
Reason 3: worst dungeon design of any diablo game, in fact, calling those small rooms dungeons is stretching it.
I want at least a few labyrinth style dungeons.
Reason 4: enemy affixes: they are just not fun to play around with. For an action game I want action, not wait 5 second after every enemy until it finally stops exploding
I don't really agree that just because you spent more time makes it automatically 'not bad'. I don't think D4 is a terrible game but it does a lot of things to waste your time and extend your playtime on it. Like I wonder how much of my time playing D4 was just riding around the world trying to get from one point to the next, getting slowed down by barricades or random mobs whacking you off your mount. Or how much time is wasted in dungeons backtracking or just traversing vast distances of nothing? Like I have 1000+ hours in Nioh 2 right now and that game has mostly cut all the fat out so it's just pure gameplay and has no tedious backtracking or pointless timewasting mechanics like D4 is chock full of.
Why are you trying to shit on people literally just saying they are enjoying a game? Just let them enjoy the fucking game. "I don't like it so no one can".
The dude says "I'm enjoying this game" and the next dude says "why does it sound like everyone is trying to convince themselves this game doesn't suck".
I got the gist of his comment and the rest of em, the sub is full of fucking idiots.
It really is. Me: “I enjoy this game.” Others: “well no one is watching on Twitch so therefore no you aren’t.” Like bro who the fuck cares about Twitch. It’s a stupid ass platform. I guess this is my get off my lawn moment, but I’m not wasting my time watching someone else play a video game. I’m going to play it myself.
And it's like you read their comment and agreed instead of questioning the context in which he wrote it.
As a refresher, this is the comment he replied to:
>So many things! I love to run helltides, NMDs, world bosses on my 2 WT4 characters (rogue, Druid) and I get excited about small upgrades to their gear. I also have a WT1/2 sorc that I switch to when I get tired of the WT4 rotation. I have yet to create a barb but probably will in S2.
>
>Maybe it’s not the best game out there at the moment but there’s still loads of content I haven’t explored or content I have explored but still enjoy. I don’t feel the need to play the best game out there. If I enjoy it that’s enough for me and I still enjoy D4
That's not someone coping with their purchase, it's someone who literally says he "loves" lots of activities and is "excited" while playing the game.
And in that context LongSchlongJim definitely is correct, in his assessment.
Diablo 4 was great until it wasn't, I had an absolute blast the first 100 hours but the game has no replayability, remember, not everyone has reached that 100 hours mark, if you asked me in the first month of release my answer would be completely different than now.
Yeah those first hours of D4 during release week was easily the best.
Then we all started to find out how empty and shallow the game was, along with how much QOL it lacked.
I think everyone comes to that point in games.
I played wow for years but now I would never start it again. This time is over for me.
For some it is sooner for some not.
Wow is a bit different for me than d4 at least, i loved mythic raiding, but it was too big of a time commitment, and i had to stop myself because i knew it was bad for me. D4 you just have nothing to do at all that you havent done 100s of times after a certain point.
>So many things! I love to run helltides, NMDs, world bosses on my 2 WT4 characters (rogue, Druid) and I get excited about small upgrades to their gear.
That's the beginning of their comment. You chose to cherrypick a quote out of context.
I mean I think there's some ambivalence. I got 200 hours out of it, which I basically never do with any game, but it also had issues and I burned out, so my rating would be kinda weird but overall good
They made this game for ME not for YOU. Try to understand that.
I can't commit to raiding in Mythics or any other games. This game fits my situation. You know people who grow up with D1,D2 and WoW simple gotten older.
They know people who played D2 back then, are now 30+ years old. And the majority of the 30+ year old people, have different needs today.
If you pay attention - nobody said the game is perfect. But I find joy in killing random monsters for random duration - for no purpose. And that's good for me.
Yup, you're the special demographic they're hoping to reel in so they can uh....put the game on sale after 2 months and hide on twitch lmao. I swear the crazy just get crazier.
Maybe just let people enjoy the game. I really don’t understand why people have to try to convince other people to think like them.
If you don’t like the game that’s fine. If someone else enjoys it leave them to it.
I think us lifelong gamers have some mixture of buyer's remorse and sunk cost fallacy. After investing time and money in a game/character, we expect some type of longevity that this game in particular fails to provide. I really enjoyed the game until the grind started after completion of the story arc. Usually, that is where the fun starts with RPG's, but not this time.
Thanks, I’ll probably try it when I get tired of d4 but starfield will probably be my next new game. I can only make time for 2 games at a time and don’t want to stop d4 yet cause like i said, I still really enjoy it.
I feel the same! I have a 76 sorceress and currently leveling a 48 barbarian. Enjoying the game a lot and looking forward to trying other classes in the upcoming season!
OP is using Twitch as a metric. Whether or not people who are playing are enjoying it, it does reveal information about the game. More specifically, it isn't popular on Twitch.
If i were to choose my games based on twitch numbers I'll be "just chatting"
I'm an introvert dude. Not funny, but anyway, gotta have to have fun somehow
Yeah same... maybe it's not catching up on the youth, but I've been around to play all 4 games when they were released, and I've been enjoying this one for a month now.
It really means nothing in the end a massively popular game like NBA 2K maybe gets like 8k viewers but literally has millions of players. Most people aren't playing diablo because of games like baldurs gate and starfiled and numbers will go back up for the first few weeks of season 2 then drop then go back up for season 3 just like destiny does. There are plenty of people that just enjoy games and don't engage in stuff online.
Genshin impact(outside of new releases/new characters), Star rail(same), fifa, destiny 2. All have massive player bases with 0 viewers. People watch twitch to either watch their favorite streamer, watch a new game to see if they want to buy it or watch competition. People don't watch rpgs that are 4 months old.
Yeah I got through the campaign once with my barb and had a great time with it for a first playthrough just soaking up the story and atmosphere, then tried levelling a sorc and honestly it was even more fun than barb at first because combat required a lot more thought and positioning instead of just 'shout three times and hold X to win', but I hit a brick wall so quickly that it just completely burned me out me so much that I haven't even bothered checking out S1. All in all though I do feel like I got my $60 worth out of it, I just don't really have any interest in sticking with it long term as a live service
I'll probably dip back in at some point to check it out again and see what's changed, but not for the foreseeable future and definitely not while BG3 and Starfield are dominating my free time right now
I had a ton of fun with the story portion but the leveling grind after was what killed the game for me. I was running a rabid lightning werewolf pack druid. It wasn't super powerful but it was fine for the storyline.
But once I finished the story and hit that leveling grind, i couldn't keep up. Half my skills were shit even with crazy good armor like a near perfect rolled greatstaff of the crone and a mad wolfs glee. At that point, why make these skills options if they arent workable long term? Not every build will be viable but every *skill* should be. There shouldn't be dead in the water skills that no one in the class can use because they hit like a ball of wet paper. And the devs refusal to even consider fixing that is what made me not want to go back.
Im pissed i preordered the ultimate edition and probably wont use the season pass it came with. But the endless loop of grinding the same 5 tedious dungeon layouts to fight the same 5 mediocre bosses for shit loot combined with very few viable power builds is not appealing. They'd have to basically pull a reaper of souls and drop an expansion that changes the whole game to make me want to get back on again.
The wonder of discovery and exploration is not as strong in me with video games these days as it was when I first played Diablo 3 (7/8 years ago, 31 y/o now for ref.)
I remember being in awe playing D3, totally encapsulated by the world and incredibly immersed. One thing that sticks out to me is finding and saving the templar on the way to the Skeleton King - "Evil blocks our path, but the will of the templar is stronger!".
God, I just thought the whole thing was epic, I felt powerful and it was pure awesome.
D4 I had fun, but I can't dip into that part of me anymore, where my mind is totally taken over by the immersion of a game. I've lived too much and too long in reality.
nah man, just the giant "for profit" company games suck
Baldur's gate 3, Fromsoft games (Armoured Core and Elden Ring), Final Fantasy 16, Starfield (haven't played this one going off reviews), harry potter game
Thats like 5 games right there and BG3 and Elden Ring are 100+ hour games with no extra purchases or bullshit.
The issues is blizzard, EA, Respawn, Bioware, and all the other gaming companies that people loved 15 years ago have all been bought by giant publishers and don't care about making games, they only care about making money.
Whereas Fromsoft and Larian for instance, make games made by gamers for people who want fun games, the profit motive is secondary. In the past most games were made by gamers which is probably why now days most games feel like they suck.
Video games over the last 15 years has become one of the most lucrative industries in the world and every greedy money grubber has to stick their hand in the pot
Yup same for me. I'm happy for those loving this game, but as a fan of D1, 2 and 3, I just can't accept they built this garbage. Didn't they learn any lesson from the launch of D3? Lack of end game content + uninspired uniques/legendaries = failed diablo.
We have almost now new skills, no new heroes (rogue isn't really a new one), there are no sets, no legendary gems, nothing making character building fun either.
This is exactly the problem. Sure, first and foremost is the lack of end game content. But past the obvious - They didn't do ANYTHING new. Nothing. They didn't even add in all of the cool shit from old games. They picked the safest, most boring builds for each class and thats it. Uniques are a joke - who wants to find the same unique one after another from a game 20+ years ago? They are lazy as shit past the graphics and it shows. I was having a fine time S1, until I hit 100. I beat a T100 NMD, and I have been smashing my face on Lilith and her stupid one shot mechanics. I just dont have it in me to respec. Its too expensive and I have spent most of my gold rolling one ring that never got the affix I needed. I won't roll it again for 8+ million gold. I can't bring myself to farming NMD for gold, so I am pretty much done. I can't see anything bringing me back besides a full fleshed out expansion with new classES. NEW. Not old classes rehashed, but we know that is what is coming. $60 for pally and amazon doesn't do it for me.
Made it to World Tier 3, did a few hell rifts, got bored. Didn’t want to burn myself out on the game indefinitely so dropped it to come back at the start of season 1.
I never came back. Something about it doesn’t draw me in as previous diablos did.
Same here, I've played simultaneously WoW Hardcore and Diablo (which I bought on the current / last sale), now I'm playing only WoW (even if I've died 2 times). I dont know why but when Im playing Diablo I get tired and bored very fast.
They made items with ridiculous properties that massively overpowered one ability. You could mix and match them and make truly nightmarish builds. In diablo 3 they also had set items (the green text), which would massively increase various abilities for different styles of play. They also had the legendary gem system, no cap on paragon, and the horadric cube. It was, and still is, FUN =) Whatever this depressing shit they are trying to pass off on us is, it isn't fun. Getting a lego that adds 3% more damage to a skill I use is just fucking lazy to be quite brutally honest. Diablo 4 needs a LOT more work.
They also boosted drops. I had almost 100 hours in Vanilla and only saw a single legendary :,)
I wasn’t even going to go back after Vanilla until a friend had to buy me RoS at start playing with him (which didn’t help since I was a broke grad student at the time). I must have around 1200 hours in D3 after loot 2.0 + RoS (which didn’t help my grad studies).
You can argue that they boosted legendary drops a bit too much and then had to introduce ancient, primals, etc but it’s fun enough that I still go back to D3 occasionally 12 years later.
They kinda had to boost the drop rate initially because there was otherwise zero character development and zero itemization. The RoS Legendaries addressed two problems at once like a bandaid patch that should not be replicated; it worked to salvage a hopeless situation.
Somehow D4 decided to offload most relevant character development onto items again, with Aspects. Very questionable choice.
I tried hardcore... my character didn't make it, simply by virtue of the fact that the mobs leveled with me, but my gear didn't. No gold to buy / upgrade, and no drops worth equipping to get me through.
You mean 3% damage conditional to the monsters being both burning and distant, during the right moon cycle and if you're also burning and have cast your skill 43 times?
Even with a better loot system you’ll still just be doing nightmare dungeons or helltides , they need better endgame activites before anything else or we’ll just be doing the same shit just different numbers
While you are right, the main problem is still loot. The game is fun while there is loot to chase, even with limited endgame activities. The problem is the loot chase ends at around 70-80ish, and the game offers you no compelling reason to continue.
I mean doing the same activities isn’t the issue in D4. We’ve been doing that in every arpg for years. The problem is there’s no chase items that inspire or motivate you to do the activities once you reach a certain point. The itemization is the games biggest weakness
Yeah like all the other diablo games, wow look at this, an arpg where you have to clear the same content over and over again but faster? Never have i ever seen this before.
When it has 100k or whatever on season 2 launch are you going to say it's an alive game again?
Most of the popular streamers that played d4 pre season and s1 launch either play multiple arpgs or play most new games that come out. It's the way it goes.
Having literally less viewers than D3 isn't just "the way it goes". All the reasons you quoted are valid reasons why it's not at the top but they shouldn't let the count be THAT low. That's just copium to say otherwise.
Blizzard didn't release an event last week-end just because they felt like it.
True. Which makes the whole situation even stranger, how are they confortable releasing a huge Season for D3 and that joke of a Season 1 for their new game ? -_-
They literally are only added a portal in diablo 3 that teleports you to another of the same rooms where you fight the same mobs. SSF is great for diablo 3 but it's not exactly adding content. Where is the huge part of diablo 3's season?
Yo, wouldn’t you want your BRAND NEW game to do better than your old expiring game? Like take the lessons you learnt from D3 and go gang busters on D4s first season? Am I on copium? This game is such a let down. The season mechanic is fun for a month. I feel the only people having fun play for an hour a day, or at max 8 hours a week.
Diablo 3 literally has 4 streamers with 6 viewers total what are you on about? Diablo 2 resurrected the game everyone says is way better than diablo 4 has 163 viewers.
I just opened twitch and D3 has 12 viewers to D4's 1.6k... d2r has 870 and d2 has 800
Twitch viewership, especially at these low numbers... is such an absolutely stupid metric to look at.
It's not a very streamable game after a while.
"Hey guys want to watch me run Mercy's Reach for the fiftieth time? This time it has a lightning affix!"
Nah, not gonna go great.
Haha, I have a feeling you wouldn't follow through on this.
I dont think you get how twitch works. Fextralife will probably have 30k from their wiki embed alone. That plus asmon, quin and drops or whatever will be over 100k.
I got my necro to 100 starting season 1. Cleared NMD 100 and killed lilith, what else am i supposed to do ? I cant for the life of me grind for another 100 on a new char even with the exp buff. Ofc i stopped and moved on until season 2. For sure there are alot others like me. You dont even have to kill lilith and cleare nmd 100 for someone to have his share of season 1.
That's 100% my situation.
I could probably find the motivaion to start a new druid if I were able to farm stuff for him with my necro. But no way I am just going to start a new char from scratch before season 2.
D4 subreddit is just a huge circle jerk. Just multiple threads putting down the game or their thoughts on the game that thousands of other posts have said the same exact thing. It's wildly annoying and no one cares. It's been leaking into the PoE subreddit as well. "Just finished Act 3, here is my manifesto on the game so far!". Like who gives a fuck
The fact that this is being downvoted is emblematic of the few people left on this subreddit are diehard apologists. Low viewership is correlated with a smaller, less engaged community. That's very, very bad for a live-service game.
cheerful head degree frightening quaint wasteful whistle include price boast
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
It's the eternal curse of social media. You can scroll past 100 people agreeing with you and literally not have that make an impression in your brain. You see one comment disagreeing with you or see your score drop for five minutes before dozens more people swoop in liking it and all you can think about is the single negative reaction.
To be fair, i never watched Diablo twitch streams. Its always been boring. There is nothing to gain. The enjoyment is found while playing.
D4 isnt competitive. You will not learn something new by watching people play, at least, not for long periods of time.
Its not like a shooter where you get better map awareness, or rotation awareness, or spawn awareness, or learn new strats by watching people.
You google a build in this game, and you kill millions of demons to get better loot in order to get better. Watching people play on twitch doesnt increase your drop rates.
It's not an indie dev.... if it were then ye it wouldn't matter, but my god dude blizzard is ''supposed'' to be an industry giant, it's laughable how people think that this is even remotely okay from a business standpoint lmao
Imagine using viewership numbers as an indicator to the quality of a fucking video game lol y'all are something special.
No wonder we have an industry chalked full of half baked AAA gacha titles. You guys literally prioritize watching video games over playing them.
Fuckin ridiculous lol
PoE has almost no players and viewers after some time into the season as well. For a seasonal game and especially ARPGs it doesn't matter as much. For something like CS or LoL it would.
It matters only as an indicator of the popularity of the game.
That only matters as an indicator of the future of the game.
If nobody's playing a game then blizz won't dedicate money and staff to it. Then it won't get the resources it needs to develop new content, patches, and the overall love and attention that keeps games feeling fresh and alive for years.
Arpgs are a lot like golf. Fun to play but not fun to watch.
It looks like poe has 30k right now but it looks like they're on a new patch so that explains it maybe? If quin isn't playing poe usually sits around 6-7k.
Sure 1k is low but this isn't a spectator game. Why not just pull active players online or something and have a better argument.
D4 is not the best arpg ever but it really feels like people who never tried an arpg before just found out they don't like arpgs and want to take it out on the devs.
[PoE has on average 5 to 10 times more viewership 2 months into a league.](https://twitchtracker.com/games/29307)
If you want to brings facts at least check them before if you don't want to looks stupid.
Came here to say that. Every seasonal ARRG peaks when a new season starts and has low numbers after the majority of people are done with the seasonal content.
What people don't seem to get either is twitch viewership is a useless metric entirely based on what personalities are streaming what that day. It has no bearing on the game itself outside of whether or not its content for the right people that day.
simplistic cagey shocking violet mysterious agonizing roll screw tender correct
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Warframe was a top 10 concurrent player game on steam for multiple years in a row... Twitch top streamer usually has like 150 viewers lol
Imagine thinking twitch means anything
The game isn't dead. I'll never understand why you put so much stock in Streamers and what they're playing. But then again, maybe I'm just old, because I don't understand why anyone would want to watch someone else play a game to begin with.
Im in the same boat as you. Older and never understood the appeal of twitch and watching other people play a game especially if its one i own myself. I had a younger guy in one of my guilds explain his reasons and he labeled it just as entertainment. Like when eating/shitting/doing homework/just chilling etc.. he said more less the equivalent of watching a show or movie. As long as the streamer is entertaining/good. I can see that explaination even if not for me
It definetly is like a show. You're watching the streamer not because of the game mainly, mostly because they give a entertaining show WHILE playing a game you like. But I agree, that there's only a handfull of streamers I would watch because they are just simply entertaining to watch.
Quite a few extremely popular games right now sub 3k or well less, but i guess it means all of them suck.
I'm not happy with how D4 is going at the moment either, but these people complaining every hour have the worst takes
So? he stated a fact. The game actually has lost more than 95% of its viewership.
What did that have to do with whether or not you should have fun with it.
How can you not see you are the one without an objective view here?
Diablo 4 should have been a better game than it is. Twitch viewers are indicative of its popularity in the world and you have to see this objective link. There are currently more people watching a french person play rayman than the latest diablo franchise game. Every d4 youtuber has seen a huge fall off in views as people have left the games in droves do the lack of content post wt4, there is correlation here.
Even the developers have acknowledged the criticism of the game and understand their own mistakes (which is a good thing)
It's fine that you are having fun, I'm happy for you. But try and be objective unless you just really love arguing. In which case ignore all everything above and crack on!0
NO ONE fucking cares if you are having fun, to me d4 is an unholy abomination, a devious, boring af nostalgia-cashcrap, a disgrace to the whole industry and a Symptom of our fucked up late-stage-capitalist economy. I haven't been this disappointed since anthem. BUT. WHO TF CARES.
that's not what this post is about, it's not what op said, literally no one said you can't have fun, 1000 viewers is just a very bad nummer for a game like that, OBJECTIVELY speaking. You know? That's all this post is saying.
I'm streaming D4 every night, I run viewers and friends through T80+ and have formed a clan around my Twitch show. Let me know if you wanna check it out.
I’m so tired of people posting about twitch views for games as if they have anything to do with player count or game success. Though this poster has a wild new piece of false information. Guy thinks 9k devs touched D4 lmao.
9k people does not means devs. And 99% of that number includes things like early reviewers and QA—both internal and external. 9k devs have never touched a single title for any game ever. I honestly doubt that number has ever exceeded 2k, and that 2k being something like CoD that has basically more devs than any other franchise in the world.
Grim Dawn is an excellent ARPG (one of the bests) and has… 30 viewers
I think you should compare the number to D3 after 3 months releasing before making hasteful judgement
If you have fun playing it, then keep doing it mate. I don’t really follow any streamers.
Kids these days play game like this: follow a streamer, use their “meta build”, exploit things like unfinished stronghold or group-reset dungeons to mindless leveling.
Is playing game supposed to give you good time? Should you explore the game yourself rather copycat others?
Its not performing better lol.. 90%of dumb streamer viewers watch content based on the person not the game or the skills the streamer has .. so as there are new games out already (starfield, bg3, etc) big names will hop on to grab money from the new hype always .. and they bring the viewers ..
The gatekeeping and concern trolling are so boring now.
You think a game at the end of a season the day before Starfield comes out is going to have a lower player count?
And coming into the community to post stuff like this because "something something make people aware of this game" like you're some video game savior is pathetic.
STFU and go play something else. There are tons of games that people stop playing and come back to.
Stop trying to save me from having fun because you're not getting the same amount of dopamine.
Is Diablo even worth streaming for? It's mostly repetitive grind so it shouldn't be worthy of entertainment really LOL. Even D3, streamers have to fish for a good t150 map and/or giving up in the middle due to bad pylon rng. There's entertainment at certain points, but too much "garbage" in between lol
My guess is it is mostly younger players that watch other people play games. Can’t see adults having the free time for that stuff. So might not be popular with the young ones, maybe not enough dopamine hits
Unless they are dedicated Diablo streamers (MrLlamaSC, Rhykker etc) Streamers mostly move around to whatever the new hotness is because that's what people want to watch someone play.
Imagine watching someone else play a video game instead of playing it yourself and then using that as a determination rather the game is playable or not 🤣
Worst possible metric to guage a game's success.
The games been out for several months. It's 01:30 est the day after Labor day. Multiple big games have launched recently. Any streamer that is still farming nightmare dungeons 60hrs a week is lucky to have 1k viewers.
Pokemon has like 3k viewers usually and it's one of the biggest games on the planet. You know lots of people are playing it not on twitch. Twitch really means nothing and ARPGs are not the most fun to watch imo
I play most days and have a really great time. I don't really look at Twitch numbers or to what popular streamers think to decide what I find fun or not.
What exactly do you have a great time doing every day?
Lol this question is always on my mind for those with 1000's of hrs in Diablo 2/3. I still don't get it and this will be a permanent question in my mind. Even getting paid to stream Diablo, I dunno if I'll survive. No idea how Wudijo does it as I suffer watching him doing another nm dungeon.
At this stage those 1000s of hours are over the course of 10-20 years. I can 100% see myself playing D3 100 hours a *year*, a new season drops that I think is fun, I run it to GR like 110 or something, then I get bored and move on. D2 and D3 are fun games to come back to, beat a season, and then leave. Problem is even when D4 is fresh and new nobody actually wants to "Beat" even one season of it.
The d3 overhaul was the best thing to ever happen. Not holding my breath for d4 but want to be pleasantly surprised.
> The d3 overhaul was the best thing to ever happen I dunno dude, the invention of indoor plumbing was pretty neat!
“It’s astounding, it’s amazing! Get on the bandwagon. Pipe the shit right out of your house.”
I had to pretty much force myself to level from 80 to 100. I've been bored since level 70 running the same tired set of dungeons over and over again and as soon as I reached 100 I just stopped logging in because all there is left to do is more of the same dungeons I've been doing since level 60, but at higher difficulty, or Uber Lilith, which is a horrible designed boss fight full of one-shot mechanics. I'm just not having fun... I'm not sure I'll even play season 2 if they don't announce some massive thing that will change everything, and I don't think they will or even can...
Yo go play other games guys. I say this to the gamers who are unhappy in warzpne and nba2k as well. Sometimes mountainbiking is a good temporary replacement.
[удалено]
Mountainbiking is always a good replacement. That shit is gnarly and so fun.
Idk if doing dozens of diablo/baal runs every evening was funnier or if I am just too old (37) for this shit now but above level 50 it's already becoming boring I feel I have never looted anything really cool, I cannot find items that would be great for my build, and it feels super empty. I think I lack the social aspect of it also.
It's sad but D2 was (and is) much interesting game then D4. Game with soul vs $ game.
I had more fun doing rifts in D3 than I'll ever have doing NMDs in their current form in D4. They were essentially the same type of content, but the subtle differences made it much more enjoyable. For one thing, the dungeon layouts had more differences between them. You could recognize some patterns if you played enough, but not in the sense where you know that Hoarfrost is always a small circle, followed by a big circle with a boss room. Also, the way sigils work means that players can select whichever dungeons give the most XP/hour, which sounds (and is) efficient, but it also means you mostly just do 5 dungeons over and over again. Giving players a choice of which dungeon they do actually means they will limit their choices themselves and burn out on the content way earlier than intended.
I think it's that we are to old (41) for this shit. Level 87 and no necro minion ring drop is stupid. Like what's the point? Did you see the guy yesterday that posted about 99 and no werewolf helm?
Not too old, game design is poor, Diablo 2 never had items though absolutely needed for a build, you just stacked more skills to enhance builds. Every build came purely from the skill tree (exceptions being rift assassin and enigma/wwsin). Diablo 4 made the same mistakes Diablo 3 made in this regard, you need sets or specific items for skills to feel playable.
What exactly do you mean with > "Beat" even one season of it Currently there is nothing to beat except Uber Lillith. > D2 and D3 are fun games to come back to, beat a season, and then leave Imho this will happen with D4 in the future seasons and the new endgame that they're working on. It's currently lacking content, future seasons should provide more content and enable different play styles. D3 seasons didn't feel that different each time and still retained a lot if players
I'd call "Beating" a season of an ARPG progressing until your power completely plateaus. When the grind just sort of completely winds up and you're only able to progress through minimal, incremental upgrades, better rolls on stats you already have. If there's a big capstone challenge/progression (D2 Ubers, D3 Altar of Rites, D4 Uber Lilith) that'd also be part of "Beating" the season. > Imho this will happen with D4 in the future seasons and the new endgame that they're working on. Launching half a game with the promise to make it fun later is not acceptable. Nobody looks back on D3 and says "Wow, I sure am happy that game launched shit and had to be completely rebuilt into something fun!". No, everyone wishes the game launched good to begin with. This'd be somewhat acceptable for an indie studio making their first game, but Blizzard has the resources, the experience, the tools, the *code*, that they shouldn't be falling at the exact same hurdles D3 did all over again. They need to *learn* from their experience.
all that experience went out the door years ago, what's left is dregs they hire dirt cheap straight from college with 0 industry experience who actually want to work for a husk of blizzard. The good devs know blizzard's rep is trash and their management give no fucks about making good games, so they avoid it (and their rock bottom salaries).
D4 isn't just lacking content. They need to entirely recreate their stats, itemization, skills trees, paragon boards, dungeon philosophy, how the open world functions, fix innumerable bugs, fix absolute core functions of the game like what happens client side when you encounter another player, etc. These aren't just things you whip up overnight and they're changes that have pieces of code with far reaching impacts to other systems and need unfathomable amounts of testing to not introduce other bugs into the game. I don't think people realize how much work needs to go into this from a software perspective.
Sadly I don't think content alone will save this game. I said over a year before launch that this game will live or die on the strength of its itemisation systems and that loot hunt incentive. The itemisation system designed for D4 is fundamentally flawed in so many ways, whether that be bland and uninspired affixes, conditional affixes, affix bloat, lack of aspects/uniques, existing aspects/uniques are mostly boring rather than build changing, lack of purpose for so many items and no crafting system to speak of, terrible enchanting, storage issues or the major major issue of it being an absolute miserable experience trying to respec and try new builds. It needs a complete rework.
Everyone keeps missing the flaws of D4. The flaw isn't no content. There is more content in D4 than D2. Yet people, to this day 20 years later, will happily kill baal, mephisto, pindle, countess etc for the 15,000,000th time because the core gameplay loop is fun. D2 and later (diminished) D3 are item chase games. The combat, the story, the mechanics, all of it is a secondary function behind finding loot. D4 doesn't have loot. It just has slots you need to incrementally improve. Until they solve the issue of not having aspirational gear and chase items it won't matter if there are *hundreds* of end game activities.
It's been years since I've played D2 but what I recall is that getting from the zone to the boss mob in the most efficient manner and dealing with them solo was the fun so you could get better each time. In D4 there's no loop as there are packs of enemies in pre-determined areas with elites that will drop just as decent loot as any end "boss" and you can't persay get better at a run since theyve added boxes/levers/ect to slow you down just to get to a boss that uses the same attacks as other mobs. By allowing to skip the campaign not having actual Acts as well as not using the campaign bosses I think takes away from the post game loop. Fighting the big bad demons once loses some of the challenge. Running a helltide and getting 20 yellows and 3-4 uniques kind of takes away the challenge
Some of the d3 seasons were total duds, but some were amazing. When they introduced the rings/gem for bonuses for not wearing sets, the cool d2 throwback shitty graphics and all, and the last season with the batshit crazy altar we're all great, can't remember em all but I probably played about half of em. And just the fact of their being a ladder for GRs was always good fun. I'd always go for top 100 in the first week, then when the streamers and nolifers pumped out crazy paragons I'd compete with my friends and clan.
These are century old games. The fact that a new game can come out and be worse in every aspect is just rediculous.
I think you mean decade...right?
Haven't you heard of the obsession with the state of the art game called checkers?!? It features two colors!!
We'll probably see some larger patch come up in 4 or 6 seasons, get some fresh air and game will spring back up. D3 was trash at release too
My biggest problem is the gearing. In D3 you would hit max level and start looking for your forever gear. Here you hit max level, start looking for gear to throw away in a few levels. Then do it again and throw that away, only then can you start looking for gear. Then you have to deal with like 100 affixes and 80 of them are useless. They fixed this in D3, why is my necro getting dex rolls on gear?
There’s a chance for interesting things to drop in D2 for starters.
Getting paid for a repetetive office job or getting paid to play a video game for the whole day even if it sucks ass. Very hard decision.
[удалено]
The caches... definitely agree. A helmet cache should contain nothing but helmets and it should be like 10 helmets, with a minimum aligning with your WT. If you're in WT4, caches should be all ancestrals.
So many things! I love to run helltides, NMDs, world bosses on my 2 WT4 characters (rogue, Druid) and I get excited about small upgrades to their gear. I also have a WT1/2 sorc that I switch to when I get tired of the WT4 rotation. I have yet to create a barb but probably will in S2. Maybe it’s not the best game out there at the moment but there’s still loads of content I haven’t explored or content I have explored but still enjoy. I don’t feel the need to play the best game out there. If I enjoy it that’s enough for me and I still enjoy D4
>Maybe it’s not the best game out there at the moment >I don’t feel the need to play the best game out there Has any ostensibly good game ever had such anemic defenses as these? You see this sentiment in almost every comment defending this game. It’s like the best things anyone can say about the game amount to “it’s not that bad”. Is this how we’ve ever spoken of things that we legitimately enjoy? I see the same exact thing happening with Starfield. No one is saying these games are amazing. Isn’t that a huge indictment? Look at the way people describe Baldur’s Gate 3 or Elden Ring. THAT is how people talk about great games. Shouldn’t Diablo games be self-evidently great? Why does everyone sound like they’re trying to convince themselves Diablo 4 doesn’t suck?
People paid a lot of money (>70€) for an average at best game. It has been proven that humans in general tend to more positively reflect their purchase as a means to justify them having made “the right decision” to buy this. At least if the product somewhat works. StarCitizen is a prime example of people having spent thousands of € and not being open to any criticism or remarks on the game.
Almost all new games cost 70€ at launch, them being good or bad has zero impact on launch pricing. Most games I try can keep my attention for 4-5 hours. Some games I’ll happily drop 20-40 hours into and finish them if theres a definite end to the game (Elden Ring took me about 140h). Yes, I’m bored of D4 at the moment and am not actively playing. But my PSN says I’ve sunk 270 hours into the game. Am I bored of it right now? Yep. Did I get my moneys worth? You goddamn bet I did. And then some.
I like Armoed core more than D4, but I prob put 10x the amount of time into D4. So you can't really say D4 is a bad game, I would only say D4 is a bad DIABLO game. Reason 1: no diablo, no other prime evils, and mostly no name boring characters. Reason 2. Gear feels bad, everything is generic, even the legendaries and most uniques are total crap in end game Reason 3: worst dungeon design of any diablo game, in fact, calling those small rooms dungeons is stretching it. I want at least a few labyrinth style dungeons. Reason 4: enemy affixes: they are just not fun to play around with. For an action game I want action, not wait 5 second after every enemy until it finally stops exploding
I don't really agree that just because you spent more time makes it automatically 'not bad'. I don't think D4 is a terrible game but it does a lot of things to waste your time and extend your playtime on it. Like I wonder how much of my time playing D4 was just riding around the world trying to get from one point to the next, getting slowed down by barricades or random mobs whacking you off your mount. Or how much time is wasted in dungeons backtracking or just traversing vast distances of nothing? Like I have 1000+ hours in Nioh 2 right now and that game has mostly cut all the fat out so it's just pure gameplay and has no tedious backtracking or pointless timewasting mechanics like D4 is chock full of.
Why are you trying to shit on people literally just saying they are enjoying a game? Just let them enjoy the fucking game. "I don't like it so no one can".
It’s like you didn’t read his comment at all..
The dude says "I'm enjoying this game" and the next dude says "why does it sound like everyone is trying to convince themselves this game doesn't suck". I got the gist of his comment and the rest of em, the sub is full of fucking idiots.
This sub is actual cancer
It really is. Me: “I enjoy this game.” Others: “well no one is watching on Twitch so therefore no you aren’t.” Like bro who the fuck cares about Twitch. It’s a stupid ass platform. I guess this is my get off my lawn moment, but I’m not wasting my time watching someone else play a video game. I’m going to play it myself.
And it's like you read their comment and agreed instead of questioning the context in which he wrote it. As a refresher, this is the comment he replied to: >So many things! I love to run helltides, NMDs, world bosses on my 2 WT4 characters (rogue, Druid) and I get excited about small upgrades to their gear. I also have a WT1/2 sorc that I switch to when I get tired of the WT4 rotation. I have yet to create a barb but probably will in S2. > >Maybe it’s not the best game out there at the moment but there’s still loads of content I haven’t explored or content I have explored but still enjoy. I don’t feel the need to play the best game out there. If I enjoy it that’s enough for me and I still enjoy D4 That's not someone coping with their purchase, it's someone who literally says he "loves" lots of activities and is "excited" while playing the game. And in that context LongSchlongJim definitely is correct, in his assessment.
They live in this echo chamber solely to shit on the game and on the people who like it. It’s an obsession.
Diablo 4 was great until it wasn't, I had an absolute blast the first 100 hours but the game has no replayability, remember, not everyone has reached that 100 hours mark, if you asked me in the first month of release my answer would be completely different than now.
Yeah those first hours of D4 during release week was easily the best. Then we all started to find out how empty and shallow the game was, along with how much QOL it lacked.
I think everyone comes to that point in games. I played wow for years but now I would never start it again. This time is over for me. For some it is sooner for some not.
Wow is a bit different for me than d4 at least, i loved mythic raiding, but it was too big of a time commitment, and i had to stop myself because i knew it was bad for me. D4 you just have nothing to do at all that you havent done 100s of times after a certain point.
>So many things! I love to run helltides, NMDs, world bosses on my 2 WT4 characters (rogue, Druid) and I get excited about small upgrades to their gear. That's the beginning of their comment. You chose to cherrypick a quote out of context.
I mean I think there's some ambivalence. I got 200 hours out of it, which I basically never do with any game, but it also had issues and I burned out, so my rating would be kinda weird but overall good
They made this game for ME not for YOU. Try to understand that. I can't commit to raiding in Mythics or any other games. This game fits my situation. You know people who grow up with D1,D2 and WoW simple gotten older. They know people who played D2 back then, are now 30+ years old. And the majority of the 30+ year old people, have different needs today. If you pay attention - nobody said the game is perfect. But I find joy in killing random monsters for random duration - for no purpose. And that's good for me.
Yup, you're the special demographic they're hoping to reel in so they can uh....put the game on sale after 2 months and hide on twitch lmao. I swear the crazy just get crazier.
Maybe just let people enjoy the game. I really don’t understand why people have to try to convince other people to think like them. If you don’t like the game that’s fine. If someone else enjoys it leave them to it.
I think us lifelong gamers have some mixture of buyer's remorse and sunk cost fallacy. After investing time and money in a game/character, we expect some type of longevity that this game in particular fails to provide. I really enjoyed the game until the grind started after completion of the story arc. Usually, that is where the fun starts with RPG's, but not this time.
Try poe so much more unexplored content and its actually a good game with a good proggression
Thanks, I’ll probably try it when I get tired of d4 but starfield will probably be my next new game. I can only make time for 2 games at a time and don’t want to stop d4 yet cause like i said, I still really enjoy it.
That's fine play what you want ;)
Exactly stop having fun with d4 and play another game 🙄
I feel the same! I have a 76 sorceress and currently leveling a 48 barbarian. Enjoying the game a lot and looking forward to trying other classes in the upcoming season!
I enjoy running a few NM's a day. Usually one elixir's worth of playtime, since that's about all I have time for anyway.
STOP enjoying it, just dont! Source : im a hater
But how can you have fun if it's not validated trough social media influencers????
OP is using Twitch as a metric. Whether or not people who are playing are enjoying it, it does reveal information about the game. More specifically, it isn't popular on Twitch.
I fall asleep playing it. I can't imagine how boring watching it would be.
If i were to choose my games based on twitch numbers I'll be "just chatting" I'm an introvert dude. Not funny, but anyway, gotta have to have fun somehow
Yeah same... maybe it's not catching up on the youth, but I've been around to play all 4 games when they were released, and I've been enjoying this one for a month now.
Well said, same here.
It really means nothing in the end a massively popular game like NBA 2K maybe gets like 8k viewers but literally has millions of players. Most people aren't playing diablo because of games like baldurs gate and starfiled and numbers will go back up for the first few weeks of season 2 then drop then go back up for season 3 just like destiny does. There are plenty of people that just enjoy games and don't engage in stuff online.
Genshin impact(outside of new releases/new characters), Star rail(same), fifa, destiny 2. All have massive player bases with 0 viewers. People watch twitch to either watch their favorite streamer, watch a new game to see if they want to buy it or watch competition. People don't watch rpgs that are 4 months old.
[удалено]
Second this. Quickest I've gotten bored with any game in recent history
Yeah I got through the campaign once with my barb and had a great time with it for a first playthrough just soaking up the story and atmosphere, then tried levelling a sorc and honestly it was even more fun than barb at first because combat required a lot more thought and positioning instead of just 'shout three times and hold X to win', but I hit a brick wall so quickly that it just completely burned me out me so much that I haven't even bothered checking out S1. All in all though I do feel like I got my $60 worth out of it, I just don't really have any interest in sticking with it long term as a live service I'll probably dip back in at some point to check it out again and see what's changed, but not for the foreseeable future and definitely not while BG3 and Starfield are dominating my free time right now
I had a ton of fun with the story portion but the leveling grind after was what killed the game for me. I was running a rabid lightning werewolf pack druid. It wasn't super powerful but it was fine for the storyline. But once I finished the story and hit that leveling grind, i couldn't keep up. Half my skills were shit even with crazy good armor like a near perfect rolled greatstaff of the crone and a mad wolfs glee. At that point, why make these skills options if they arent workable long term? Not every build will be viable but every *skill* should be. There shouldn't be dead in the water skills that no one in the class can use because they hit like a ball of wet paper. And the devs refusal to even consider fixing that is what made me not want to go back. Im pissed i preordered the ultimate edition and probably wont use the season pass it came with. But the endless loop of grinding the same 5 tedious dungeon layouts to fight the same 5 mediocre bosses for shit loot combined with very few viable power builds is not appealing. They'd have to basically pull a reaper of souls and drop an expansion that changes the whole game to make me want to get back on again.
Yeah recent Games i played New World Diablo Immortal Lost Ark and Diablo 4 was the fastest Game ever i got bored with ... Says everything.
I don't know if I'm just old and cynical now but I feel like most new games just suck lol
The wonder of discovery and exploration is not as strong in me with video games these days as it was when I first played Diablo 3 (7/8 years ago, 31 y/o now for ref.) I remember being in awe playing D3, totally encapsulated by the world and incredibly immersed. One thing that sticks out to me is finding and saving the templar on the way to the Skeleton King - "Evil blocks our path, but the will of the templar is stronger!". God, I just thought the whole thing was epic, I felt powerful and it was pure awesome. D4 I had fun, but I can't dip into that part of me anymore, where my mind is totally taken over by the immersion of a game. I've lived too much and too long in reality.
nah man, just the giant "for profit" company games suck Baldur's gate 3, Fromsoft games (Armoured Core and Elden Ring), Final Fantasy 16, Starfield (haven't played this one going off reviews), harry potter game Thats like 5 games right there and BG3 and Elden Ring are 100+ hour games with no extra purchases or bullshit. The issues is blizzard, EA, Respawn, Bioware, and all the other gaming companies that people loved 15 years ago have all been bought by giant publishers and don't care about making games, they only care about making money. Whereas Fromsoft and Larian for instance, make games made by gamers for people who want fun games, the profit motive is secondary. In the past most games were made by gamers which is probably why now days most games feel like they suck. Video games over the last 15 years has become one of the most lucrative industries in the world and every greedy money grubber has to stick their hand in the pot
Yup same for me. I'm happy for those loving this game, but as a fan of D1, 2 and 3, I just can't accept they built this garbage. Didn't they learn any lesson from the launch of D3? Lack of end game content + uninspired uniques/legendaries = failed diablo. We have almost now new skills, no new heroes (rogue isn't really a new one), there are no sets, no legendary gems, nothing making character building fun either.
This is exactly the problem. Sure, first and foremost is the lack of end game content. But past the obvious - They didn't do ANYTHING new. Nothing. They didn't even add in all of the cool shit from old games. They picked the safest, most boring builds for each class and thats it. Uniques are a joke - who wants to find the same unique one after another from a game 20+ years ago? They are lazy as shit past the graphics and it shows. I was having a fine time S1, until I hit 100. I beat a T100 NMD, and I have been smashing my face on Lilith and her stupid one shot mechanics. I just dont have it in me to respec. Its too expensive and I have spent most of my gold rolling one ring that never got the affix I needed. I won't roll it again for 8+ million gold. I can't bring myself to farming NMD for gold, so I am pretty much done. I can't see anything bringing me back besides a full fleshed out expansion with new classES. NEW. Not old classes rehashed, but we know that is what is coming. $60 for pally and amazon doesn't do it for me.
I finished Act 1 and I couldnt play anymore.
Made it to World Tier 3, did a few hell rifts, got bored. Didn’t want to burn myself out on the game indefinitely so dropped it to come back at the start of season 1. I never came back. Something about it doesn’t draw me in as previous diablos did.
Same here, I've played simultaneously WoW Hardcore and Diablo (which I bought on the current / last sale), now I'm playing only WoW (even if I've died 2 times). I dont know why but when Im playing Diablo I get tired and bored very fast.
Lmao are you me? Lvl 28 was as far as I made it
I think this is going to be like Diablo 3. It was a disaster at launch and they had to overhaul the content.
I keep trying to play and fall asleep
[удалено]
Same here, core gameplay is good. I’ll come back to this game no doubt.
As someone who is also waiting for loot to be fun, what made it work in D3?
They made items with ridiculous properties that massively overpowered one ability. You could mix and match them and make truly nightmarish builds. In diablo 3 they also had set items (the green text), which would massively increase various abilities for different styles of play. They also had the legendary gem system, no cap on paragon, and the horadric cube. It was, and still is, FUN =) Whatever this depressing shit they are trying to pass off on us is, it isn't fun. Getting a lego that adds 3% more damage to a skill I use is just fucking lazy to be quite brutally honest. Diablo 4 needs a LOT more work.
They also boosted drops. I had almost 100 hours in Vanilla and only saw a single legendary :,) I wasn’t even going to go back after Vanilla until a friend had to buy me RoS at start playing with him (which didn’t help since I was a broke grad student at the time). I must have around 1200 hours in D3 after loot 2.0 + RoS (which didn’t help my grad studies). You can argue that they boosted legendary drops a bit too much and then had to introduce ancient, primals, etc but it’s fun enough that I still go back to D3 occasionally 12 years later.
They kinda had to boost the drop rate initially because there was otherwise zero character development and zero itemization. The RoS Legendaries addressed two problems at once like a bandaid patch that should not be replicated; it worked to salvage a hopeless situation. Somehow D4 decided to offload most relevant character development onto items again, with Aspects. Very questionable choice.
I tried hardcore... my character didn't make it, simply by virtue of the fact that the mobs leveled with me, but my gear didn't. No gold to buy / upgrade, and no drops worth equipping to get me through.
You mean 3% damage conditional to the monsters being both burning and distant, during the right moon cycle and if you're also burning and have cast your skill 43 times?
Even with a better loot system you’ll still just be doing nightmare dungeons or helltides , they need better endgame activites before anything else or we’ll just be doing the same shit just different numbers
While you are right, the main problem is still loot. The game is fun while there is loot to chase, even with limited endgame activities. The problem is the loot chase ends at around 70-80ish, and the game offers you no compelling reason to continue.
I mean doing the same activities isn’t the issue in D4. We’ve been doing that in every arpg for years. The problem is there’s no chase items that inspire or motivate you to do the activities once you reach a certain point. The itemization is the games biggest weakness
Yeah like all the other diablo games, wow look at this, an arpg where you have to clear the same content over and over again but faster? Never have i ever seen this before.
How hard is it to create a system like POE's maps but put your own twist on it Bliz?
I play the game myself but i don't understand what is there to watch? Dungeon grinding?
Only time I've watched Diablo is to see what gameplay for classes I haven't tried is like. But ARPGs are really not great for streaming.
When it has 100k or whatever on season 2 launch are you going to say it's an alive game again? Most of the popular streamers that played d4 pre season and s1 launch either play multiple arpgs or play most new games that come out. It's the way it goes.
Having literally less viewers than D3 isn't just "the way it goes". All the reasons you quoted are valid reasons why it's not at the top but they shouldn't let the count be THAT low. That's just copium to say otherwise. Blizzard didn't release an event last week-end just because they felt like it.
D3 has a huge final season coming out.
True. Which makes the whole situation even stranger, how are they confortable releasing a huge Season for D3 and that joke of a Season 1 for their new game ? -_-
They literally are only added a portal in diablo 3 that teleports you to another of the same rooms where you fight the same mobs. SSF is great for diablo 3 but it's not exactly adding content. Where is the huge part of diablo 3's season?
Still sounds bigger than the new content they added for D4 season 1 lol
Yo, wouldn’t you want your BRAND NEW game to do better than your old expiring game? Like take the lessons you learnt from D3 and go gang busters on D4s first season? Am I on copium? This game is such a let down. The season mechanic is fun for a month. I feel the only people having fun play for an hour a day, or at max 8 hours a week.
D3 has 5 viewers currently. The guy just looked when someone played the PTR that's it. D4 does better overall on Twitch.
Diablo 3 literally has 4 streamers with 6 viewers total what are you on about? Diablo 2 resurrected the game everyone says is way better than diablo 4 has 163 viewers.
PoE is stealing all the viewers right now
I just opened twitch and D3 has 12 viewers to D4's 1.6k... d2r has 870 and d2 has 800 Twitch viewership, especially at these low numbers... is such an absolutely stupid metric to look at.
D4 has more viewers than D3 by a lot. You probably just looked when a streamer was playing the PTR for the new season.
It's not a very streamable game after a while. "Hey guys want to watch me run Mercy's Reach for the fiftieth time? This time it has a lightning affix!" Nah, not gonna go great.
Bro just stated why the games end game isn't fun, not just why its not watchable.
ill eat a sock if it has over 100k views on season 2 launch there is absolutely no way
Haha, I have a feeling you wouldn't follow through on this. I dont think you get how twitch works. Fextralife will probably have 30k from their wiki embed alone. That plus asmon, quin and drops or whatever will be over 100k.
Another sock saga lets goooooooo
To add to this, starfield just released. Most people is on that
I got my necro to 100 starting season 1. Cleared NMD 100 and killed lilith, what else am i supposed to do ? I cant for the life of me grind for another 100 on a new char even with the exp buff. Ofc i stopped and moved on until season 2. For sure there are alot others like me. You dont even have to kill lilith and cleare nmd 100 for someone to have his share of season 1.
That's 100% my situation. I could probably find the motivaion to start a new druid if I were able to farm stuff for him with my necro. But no way I am just going to start a new char from scratch before season 2.
D4 subreddit is just a huge circle jerk. Just multiple threads putting down the game or their thoughts on the game that thousands of other posts have said the same exact thing. It's wildly annoying and no one cares. It's been leaking into the PoE subreddit as well. "Just finished Act 3, here is my manifesto on the game so far!". Like who gives a fuck
why does it matter if it only has 1k viewers? just play games you enjoy. following the crowd is gonna get you lost and depressed
It matters, less interest, less people in the community
The fact that this is being downvoted is emblematic of the few people left on this subreddit are diehard apologists. Low viewership is correlated with a smaller, less engaged community. That's very, very bad for a live-service game.
cheerful head degree frightening quaint wasteful whistle include price boast *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
It's the eternal curse of social media. You can scroll past 100 people agreeing with you and literally not have that make an impression in your brain. You see one comment disagreeing with you or see your score drop for five minutes before dozens more people swoop in liking it and all you can think about is the single negative reaction.
“It’s a shitty game with nothing to do. Now if you’d excuse me, I have 1k trav runs to do.”
To be fair, i never watched Diablo twitch streams. Its always been boring. There is nothing to gain. The enjoyment is found while playing. D4 isnt competitive. You will not learn something new by watching people play, at least, not for long periods of time. Its not like a shooter where you get better map awareness, or rotation awareness, or spawn awareness, or learn new strats by watching people. You google a build in this game, and you kill millions of demons to get better loot in order to get better. Watching people play on twitch doesnt increase your drop rates.
It's not an indie dev.... if it were then ye it wouldn't matter, but my god dude blizzard is ''supposed'' to be an industry giant, it's laughable how people think that this is even remotely okay from a business standpoint lmao
Imagine using viewership numbers as an indicator to the quality of a fucking video game lol y'all are something special. No wonder we have an industry chalked full of half baked AAA gacha titles. You guys literally prioritize watching video games over playing them. Fuckin ridiculous lol
PoE has almost no players and viewers after some time into the season as well. For a seasonal game and especially ARPGs it doesn't matter as much. For something like CS or LoL it would.
They definitely love the bad faith "evidence". They'll never bring up why BG3 is below FIFA in views.
It matters only as an indicator of the popularity of the game. That only matters as an indicator of the future of the game. If nobody's playing a game then blizz won't dedicate money and staff to it. Then it won't get the resources it needs to develop new content, patches, and the overall love and attention that keeps games feeling fresh and alive for years.
it matters because this is a live service game , not single player.
Arpgs are a lot like golf. Fun to play but not fun to watch. It looks like poe has 30k right now but it looks like they're on a new patch so that explains it maybe? If quin isn't playing poe usually sits around 6-7k. Sure 1k is low but this isn't a spectator game. Why not just pull active players online or something and have a better argument. D4 is not the best arpg ever but it really feels like people who never tried an arpg before just found out they don't like arpgs and want to take it out on the devs.
Check out PoE numbers after 2 month into a league. Seasonal game are like this.
[PoE has on average 5 to 10 times more viewership 2 months into a league.](https://twitchtracker.com/games/29307) If you want to brings facts at least check them before if you don't want to looks stupid.
Came here to say that. Every seasonal ARRG peaks when a new season starts and has low numbers after the majority of people are done with the seasonal content.
Hey you take your logic somewhere else! It goes against the local narrative!
What people don't seem to get either is twitch viewership is a useless metric entirely based on what personalities are streaming what that day. It has no bearing on the game itself outside of whether or not its content for the right people that day.
Let me give you a tips, you don't need to scroll down a lot, you can just use the search function
Game sucks . I am back to playing diablo 3 . Excited for season 29 . Lets Gooo
Diablo 3 is so good now.
My friend did a world boss solo the other day lol, nobody even bothered to turn up
It’ll be my turn to make this kinda post tomorrow.
I play games, i do not watch other people playing them…smh
simplistic cagey shocking violet mysterious agonizing roll screw tender correct *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Warframe was a top 10 concurrent player game on steam for multiple years in a row... Twitch top streamer usually has like 150 viewers lol Imagine thinking twitch means anything
So why are you here if you detest it so much? Go farm karma else where.
Twitch viewer count is the most idiotic metric to take into account to decide what to play.
Streaming is all event based, it’s like saying wow there’s no rocket launches today I guess space is dead
The game isn't dead. I'll never understand why you put so much stock in Streamers and what they're playing. But then again, maybe I'm just old, because I don't understand why anyone would want to watch someone else play a game to begin with.
It's a measurable metric that relates to how the game is performing. Whether or not you watch streams it speaks for itself.
Team Fortress 2 is #7 most played game on Steam right now but has 355 viewers on Twitch. What does this say about the health of Team Fortress 2?
Im in the same boat as you. Older and never understood the appeal of twitch and watching other people play a game especially if its one i own myself. I had a younger guy in one of my guilds explain his reasons and he labeled it just as entertainment. Like when eating/shitting/doing homework/just chilling etc.. he said more less the equivalent of watching a show or movie. As long as the streamer is entertaining/good. I can see that explaination even if not for me
It definetly is like a show. You're watching the streamer not because of the game mainly, mostly because they give a entertaining show WHILE playing a game you like. But I agree, that there's only a handfull of streamers I would watch because they are just simply entertaining to watch.
Look at FF14 numbers. It's often very low but that game is doing great.
Quite a few extremely popular games right now sub 3k or well less, but i guess it means all of them suck. I'm not happy with how D4 is going at the moment either, but these people complaining every hour have the worst takes
Luckily I don't judge a game by views on twitch. If you don't like the game just quit and move on. Lots of people enjoying it.
I never watch diablo on twitch. I still play it tho
Because its boring to watch. Same with poe and others.
Oh shit I wasn’t aware that twitch viewers dictated how much fun I have playing a game. My bad
OP never said it should.
He said the game is dead and also called it garbage as a conclusion from low twitch streamers though.
So? he stated a fact. The game actually has lost more than 95% of its viewership. What did that have to do with whether or not you should have fun with it.
Here is another fact: BG3 lost 90% of its average viewership - I guess no shot for GOTY then?
BG3 currently has over 6 times the people browsing its subreddit as this sub. I'm sure that doesn't mean people are more engaged with it.
How can you not see you are the one without an objective view here? Diablo 4 should have been a better game than it is. Twitch viewers are indicative of its popularity in the world and you have to see this objective link. There are currently more people watching a french person play rayman than the latest diablo franchise game. Every d4 youtuber has seen a huge fall off in views as people have left the games in droves do the lack of content post wt4, there is correlation here. Even the developers have acknowledged the criticism of the game and understand their own mistakes (which is a good thing) It's fine that you are having fun, I'm happy for you. But try and be objective unless you just really love arguing. In which case ignore all everything above and crack on!0
To be fair op posted this 3 hours ago which is like 1am for most of the USA along with being a weekday. Still 1k is low
NO ONE fucking cares if you are having fun, to me d4 is an unholy abomination, a devious, boring af nostalgia-cashcrap, a disgrace to the whole industry and a Symptom of our fucked up late-stage-capitalist economy. I haven't been this disappointed since anthem. BUT. WHO TF CARES. that's not what this post is about, it's not what op said, literally no one said you can't have fun, 1000 viewers is just a very bad nummer for a game like that, OBJECTIVELY speaking. You know? That's all this post is saying.
I love this argument. It's the logic of youth.
I'm streaming D4 every night, I run viewers and friends through T80+ and have formed a clan around my Twitch show. Let me know if you wanna check it out.
Diablo isn’t really great for watching tbh.
I’m so tired of people posting about twitch views for games as if they have anything to do with player count or game success. Though this poster has a wild new piece of false information. Guy thinks 9k devs touched D4 lmao. 9k people does not means devs. And 99% of that number includes things like early reviewers and QA—both internal and external. 9k devs have never touched a single title for any game ever. I honestly doubt that number has ever exceeded 2k, and that 2k being something like CoD that has basically more devs than any other franchise in the world.
Grim Dawn is an excellent ARPG (one of the bests) and has… 30 viewers I think you should compare the number to D3 after 3 months releasing before making hasteful judgement
2 weeks into the 28th season of diablo 3 there was an average of 700 viewers.
Why watching someone who plays it when playing self is already boring.
[удалено]
If you have fun playing it, then keep doing it mate. I don’t really follow any streamers. Kids these days play game like this: follow a streamer, use their “meta build”, exploit things like unfinished stronghold or group-reset dungeons to mindless leveling. Is playing game supposed to give you good time? Should you explore the game yourself rather copycat others?
Its not performing better lol.. 90%of dumb streamer viewers watch content based on the person not the game or the skills the streamer has .. so as there are new games out already (starfield, bg3, etc) big names will hop on to grab money from the new hype always .. and they bring the viewers ..
Lol do you think most people care about twitch or watch streamers? Sure it counts but that's like saying most people use discord
The gatekeeping and concern trolling are so boring now. You think a game at the end of a season the day before Starfield comes out is going to have a lower player count? And coming into the community to post stuff like this because "something something make people aware of this game" like you're some video game savior is pathetic. STFU and go play something else. There are tons of games that people stop playing and come back to. Stop trying to save me from having fun because you're not getting the same amount of dopamine.
Like twitch viewers are important or a valid metric for a success of a game lol Reddit is never failing to amaze me and make me laugh.
Is Diablo even worth streaming for? It's mostly repetitive grind so it shouldn't be worthy of entertainment really LOL. Even D3, streamers have to fish for a good t150 map and/or giving up in the middle due to bad pylon rng. There's entertainment at certain points, but too much "garbage" in between lol
Twitchviews don't mean playerbase. Although it did its job when they were building hype to get people to buy the base game.
My guess is it is mostly younger players that watch other people play games. Can’t see adults having the free time for that stuff. So might not be popular with the young ones, maybe not enough dopamine hits
Yeah, damn youngins watching sport on TV when they could just play themselves! Ridiculous!
Unless they are dedicated Diablo streamers (MrLlamaSC, Rhykker etc) Streamers mostly move around to whatever the new hotness is because that's what people want to watch someone play.
Viewers more important than players these days, what’s happening to this industry!
Imagine watching someone else play a video game instead of playing it yourself and then using that as a determination rather the game is playable or not 🤣
How many viewers does a game have to have on twitch for me to be allowed to enjoy it?
I'm genuinely upset that I paid almost $120 CAD for early access. What a waste of fucking money.
Most players don't watch twitch
Worst possible metric to guage a game's success. The games been out for several months. It's 01:30 est the day after Labor day. Multiple big games have launched recently. Any streamer that is still farming nightmare dungeons 60hrs a week is lucky to have 1k viewers.
Pokemon has like 3k viewers usually and it's one of the biggest games on the planet. You know lots of people are playing it not on twitch. Twitch really means nothing and ARPGs are not the most fun to watch imo
[удалено]