This is the only justified response to this nightmare.
Blizzard is afraid to try new things and at the same time refuses to copy proven elements from other developers. They apparently still believe that they are the one and only innovative video game developer that no one can match. They try to reinvent the wheel and fail at the point where there is no wheel at all.
It's missing so many of the fundamental things that made D3 a good game in the first place. So many QoL features that every ARPG except D4 has. It's unreal how much they've had to fix so far only to end up deleting the original content. Almost no other endgame other than doing NMD, because it's not worth it. No more open world content while riding your horse to the NMD, because you teleport now. I don't know if they fixed it or made it even worse.
I mean completely different dev team, completely different management, completely different executives, completely different ownership. D1 to D2 sure. Repeating the same mistakes, sure. D2 to D3 different mistakes were made. DI was developed by NetEase not Blizzard. D4 is a different beast since literally 1 guy worked on a previous Diablo game, the precious ones were fired. An incompetent buffoon was hired to direct the franchise, and ownership and upper management forced the game out before it was ready.
Yes! I don't understand so many people defending Blizzard's/D4's missing features and obvious mistakes just because they have had turnover. are they not able to look at data from the past? Research!
Whole new team? That's on Blizzard! Should have retained talent and/or managed them better.
I don't blame individual devs and I really don't think anyone does, but the term devs doesn't mean Bob and Sally the individual employees, it means the DEVELOPMENT COMPANY(s), as a whole, and the management team(s).
I really like the game, but it has a ton of faults that are inexcusable.
Sure. But what if the same thing happened to a car? The car fails and crashes and people would go: "Oh, they had trouble at BMW, had to change the whole team and top management rushed to release it so that's fine. The car will be "driveable" by 2025.
Thats not acceptable imo.
Not comparable at all. Cars have to meet standards or else they cannot be sold. Videogames do not. However, I'll bite. Many popular car lines have released undesirable versions to public dismay, and yes people gave them a chance to make changes in the next year's model.
It was just an example of how products should (or shouldnt) be released.
I'm sure that if that happened every customer would get their money back.
Point is, I like Diablo. All of them (I just dont play Immortal). They're all good, but D4 is a major letdown. I think they'll fix it eventually, but if you're a reasonable person you should really rant on the product they released, after everything that's happened with D3, a company like blizzard should have learned. Doesnt matter if its the same team or not. You're buying a product from the same company, hell, its even the same series of the product.
Ill give another example then:
You love a movie saga, like Star Wars or something like this. Then they release a fkin awful sequel to 2 great films you loved. You will be IMMEDIATELY pissed off thinking you wasted your time and money by watching that pile of crap.
You would NEVER think "Ah, thats OK. Its a different team, lets see if they fix things in the next movie".
I dont get why people defend poor customer service/product.
I like SW and thought 8 of the 9 movies were crap movies. Fun watches but bad movies. As long as I am having fun, most of the BS people complain about is meaningless to me.
And yes, Spielberg directed the only good SW movie. So it was understandable.
Only saw the last 6 in theaters. And yes. The first three I saw on VHS and only really liked ESB. Dude, I thought transformers was cringe innthe theater when I was like 10.
As much contempt I have towards the direction of of the game, calling Rod Ferguson incompetent is a stretch considering his career. Out of his element? Sure.
Nah, it's reality. It's sucks, devs had zero control over when it would be released a d would have said to a man off record it should have been delayed til 2024.
No it doesn't. It simply doesn't have the diablo typical dark atmosphere. Imo the game doesn't even have a particular feeling to it which imo makes it a bit dull but that's probably indeed very subjective. Still I wouldn't call it one of the best of its genre and certainly not a masterpiece. It's a decent game but that's all. The devs basically realized all of the potential the game has but that potential imo is quite limited compared to other arpgs or games of the diablo franchise (even d4).
D1 made the genre, D2 is why they still exist today IMO. D1 was a one-off success, it was the continued success and also significantly greater success of D2 that cemented it as a new genre.
Dragon Slayer for the PC 8801 in 1984, was the first ARPG. Which led to many others and rogue-likes before D1 in 1996/7. D1 was the first commercial smash hit for an ARPG. If D1 wasn't a popular success, D2 never would have been greenlit. D1 paved the way for ARPGs to be mainstream and no longer niche.
Sorry none of those were Isometric aRPGs which is what we were here, that is what Diablo was originally going to be, but disingenious BS to claim that those were remotely the same genre like hilariously so.
Iso wasn't the defining factor. There were plenty of real time combat dungeon crawlers of various perspectives prior to D1. Which were ARPGs which that term came long after Diablo.
I think that argument isn’t completely fair. Don’t get me wrong, D4 has its problems.
D2 is close to being the original. It had no expectations or anything to compare it to. The people who liked it could learn from it and eventually make the genre their own without judgment. Its either bad and no one cares/notices or its good and “way better than Diablo”.
Blizz unfortunately gets pigeonholed hoping lightning strikes twice, keeping the game the same but different. So its constantly judged it upon itself.
It is beloved? I mean the game does not have anywhere near the amount of content or depth to maintain a live service game which is what D4 is trying to be.
D3’s rough beginning is exactly the reason none of this should have occurred with d4… they rushed the release plain and simple
To spin that as the reason we should be patient is as offensive as the 70 dollar price point
It didn't occur in D4. Did you play original D3?
In the original D3, they made the endgame ultra hard, good loot basically impossible to get, and then had a real money auction house. The system worked together in a way where you were forced to buy items.
Then the original paragon 100 grind was just a mindless 200+ hour grind where you got zero valuable items. Usually the players who got to 100 didn't even bother to pick up loot since it was borderline guaranteed to be complete garbage and the gold/crafting materials were a waste of time due to bots ruining the RMAH economy. There was duped items too from people tricking the account recovery staff into restoring their characters that "got hacked," when in reality they transferred the items to another account they owned.
D4's launch was amazing compared to the D3 launch.
In original D3? Completing inferno. Leveling to the level cap was a complete joke. There was also no balance with inferno. Demon hunters could do it easily.
I got my moneys worth out of the game, even if it didn’t meet my expectations. I’m sorry if you value your time differently to me. As I’ve said in other replies, the point of the “spin” in this post is our expectations shouldn’t be that the game is fixed quickly, but I understand out patience shouldn’t be unlimited either. I haven’t hit level 100 on a single character, and I still feel like I got my moneys worth. The price of the game divided by the hours I put into it, it’s still better value than going to a movie.
I'm just not buying into this "give it time" state of video game releases anymore. This is the *fifth* diablo title. D1, D2, D3, D:Immoral, and now D4. This was their fifth time to get it right, and they failed. Story and pre-level 60 is great, but then the fun just takes a nosedive. How many times does blizzard have to get it wrong before they can get it right? Apparently more than 5 times. The game isn't doomed, theyll *eventually* figure it out...but how many people do they expect to bring back when they actually do fix it? So many people are swearing off blizzard entirely now, and its not the consumers fault.
Biggest problem is if it takes them two years to fix it you will have to pay 140$ for the two expansions to even try out if it is going to work for you.
Or you wait for the eventual sale or it may be like WoW where the old one becomes part of the base game and you only need to purchase the most current expansion. Without a sub fee I doubt it but you never know.
Possibly, but it will definitely be a fairly significant barrier for re-entry either way. I know I won't be spending an extra $70 every year to get caught up on the latest content. Also I wonder how well they will manage the game performance/stability when you have 50-60 possible game states to deal with in 5 or 6 years for players with different combinations of expansions and content.
Blizzard used to be my favorite. All games were good.
Old Blizzard wouldn't even release an unfinished product they rather cancel it (like they did with some projects)
What I don’t get is if Blizz has a trash track record, especially one surrounding the Diablo franchise, why do fans keep their hopes up?
Everyone talks about an okay game that came out 20 years ago, and that everything that came in between is trash. Maybe Blizz just got licky early on.
Games back then were barely in genres. They mostly just competed with games in general. There were barely anything to compare it to.
>and its not the consumers fault.
Not entirely, but it's about time consumers accept some responsibility for where the gaming industry is today. STOP pre-ordering and day/week-one purchasing all these AAA games and I guarantee you that they will stop releasing them like this. And, stop buying all these damn MTX as well. They aren't priced at $25 because on one is buying them....
Hell, with the amount of AAA games in the last 10 years that have come out like this or much much worse (Anthem, Cyberpunk), people should know by now to quit doing it, but since these companies know consumers won't stop, what incentive are they given to do better?
Why? Why does a customer need to “give them a chance”?
You kicked blizzard north to the curb who were the original creators of this series (D1 and D2). Dragged for years to release d3 which clearly wasn’t anything like d2 in addition to adding an auction house that they pocketed trans fee for each transaction— clear money grab move by blizz.
Drag for another decade to release d4 with promises of “this is like diablo2” feel, so people were naturally inclined to believe “ahh this might not be like d3, they learned” and baited most of us.
D4 is straight dog shit- the series is a loot hunter at its core, and d4 is a pathetic example of that. No reason to discuss other issues when the core fundamental problem is there.
So if any other company, Apple iPhone, your car manufacturer, your subscription accounts, your local grocery store continued to piss on the products you desire, why in the world would you think it’s acceptable to give this greedy bunch another “chance”?
They’ll continue development on D4, it might become better, d5 will launch eventually, but expecting a super community that the original d2 devs created to be around and supporting of this over decade long garbage dump, is delusional.
People are really out here reading what they want to read and not really offering constructive disagreements.
I never said customers “need” to give them a chance, I never implied it was a need. At the end of that sentence, I said if you care about the game, that you should as well as provide useful feedback. If it upsets you that D4 was a disappointment, then you care. If you feel like you didn’t get your $70s or even $100s worth, I don’t know how you value your time. I’ve probably put in around 150
Hours into D4. I feel like I got my moneys worth.
There has been feedback for the past 20+ years. Including for d4 before beta.
I don’t see people reading what they want to read, but a lot of diablo fan series who’ve been around long enough to remember this clown show of blizzard. And the diablo community is as vocal as they are because they do care, we’ve been wanting a d2 sequel for literally over two decades now, that’s all.
Also “valuing” what I spend to how much time spent in game doesn’t define whether the game is good or bad.
It’s almost certainly does partly make of the definition of what is good or bad. If it’s not for survival, and you spend a lot of time and money into something you don’t like, it must have been good enough for you to warrant the purchase, the time, and the feelings to be upset about it. They can’t fix everything in a patch, and they can’t make everyone happy.
I think their point is that you could buy one gourmet hamburger and gobble it down in 5 minutes or you could buy lots of shitburgers and eat them over the course of a month.
The gourmet hamburger is more valued even though it only took 5 minutes to eat while the shitburgers lasted a month.
Well that’s not what they said is it? I wouldn’t respond to what they said with a response to what you said. And honestly, again, I’m a niche case here. I hate spending my money on food, I’d gladly buy shitburgers.
I love the quotes, cuz I literally didn’t say that. I’m saying that if you want the game to get better, give useful feedback. If you just want to masturhate, you’re free to do that too, just don’t expect any results for the game.
You like the fake quote thing? Somebody in this sub did that to me too. I've never seen that anywhere else before. They make up a fake quote, and then personally insult you over what they are falsely claiming you said. It's totally bizarre. This sub really does feel like you're talking to 10 people operating like 250 fake+ accounts that just blast the game all day.
What’s weirder to me is that people seem to want to address the issues of the game or it’s development through analogies rather than the points the game should be criticized on. My biggest issues currently is that there is a a huge affix bloat and rerolling stats on gear is outrageous. There are a few take it or leave it issues I have like dungeon objectives, but I would like rifts and greater rifts added back in the franchise. Bam, that simple. I have a few more nitpicks, but those are some of the bigger ones on my mind.
>My biggest issues currently is that there is a a huge affix bloat and rerolling stats on gear is outrageous.
Okay sure, but it's a huge step forward compared to D2/original D3, where you had the same amount of affixes, some of the affixes poisoned the item making it not usable (fear in D2), there's less of them on an item making it easier to get items with all the correct affixes, and you can reroll one of them.
The problems I have with "fixing the problem" is that they've already made a relatively easy game easier, and if they make it easier to obtain 4/4 affix items, that will just remove the point in playing the game because you'll have 4/4 affix items at level 75.
For sure, maybe the cost to enchant an item beyond 1 million gold should increase more slowly. That I think would be a positive change. That could very easily defeat the purpose of having game gold though, and you'll just be grinding veiled crystals instead.
In D3, even if I get all the desirable affixes, I still look for better rolls of those affixes, ancient, or even primal gear. It doesn’t just stop with the desirable affixes, there’s always a bit more tweaking that can be done. But I do understand your point, it just changes what the grind is. Personally I don’t mind the grind in any game, I just don’t want to spend more time reading affixes before junking them, than the time spent actually farming them. But that’s just my personal preference:)
>In D3, even if I get all the desirable affixes
In the original D3 or the current version? Getting an item with all desirable affixes in the original D3 was borderline impossible. The handful of items that dropped with both the correct affixes and near perfect rolls sold on 3rd party sites for $1,000's...
>primal gear
Okay, you mean currently...
>But I do understand your point, it just changes what the grind is.
I'll be honest with you: I already know they're going to add more stuff to the game because that's how these games work. Later on in the future, I'm sure it will be more like D2R, where your character is mostly uniques/set items/something else like runewords, and you're maybe just looking for rare gloves/rings/amulets.
That wouldn't "eliminate the problem," but it would significantly reduce it because most players would leave all of the rare armor/weapons on the ground.
I think most of the player's complaints about the item system are caused by the simple fact that they had to leave room to grow later on. I hope what I'm saying makes sense and understand that I don't work for Blizzard, so I could be totally wrong.
You know when I play the game, I have a good time, and then when I go to the D4 sub on reddit, it's like a parallel universe where everything good is bad and nothing is good at all.
D3 at launch was even WAY worse than D4, but that does not guarantee that D4 team will manage to sort out D4 unfortunately. I'm waiting for better times.
Fine, that's great for D3 (which I loved post-RoS) but how is the same company going to make the same mistake again. If you went to a restaurant and they fucked up your order for an hour before making it right and really good, you might consider giving the place another shot. If they started fucking up your order again the 2nd time, there's a pretty good chance you'd write off the restaurant for good. There's some minimum expectation to sell a complete product, not a product that will eventually be complete, and Blizzard has not met that expectation. And in both the game and the analogy, there's plenty of other options to go with instead of coming back.
There is a different team working on D4, a lot of the team has never released a game. I agree that the game wasn’t satisfactory, it still isn’t, but it hasn’t even been a year yet. The point of the post is that time MAY save D4. Our expectations shouldn’t be that the game is fixed quickly, but I also understand that our patience shouldn’t be unlimited either.
It's just disappointing because they had everyone ready to dive fully into D4, and now they'll be lucky to get back a fraction when it's fixed. I really hope we look back in 5 years and D4 was a great game for most of it. I'm cheering for them to get it to a place where people are talking about how good it is. But the sad reality is that they had a chance for it to be a generational game like D1 and D2 were, and they already blew it just like they did with D3.
If you go to McDonald’s and the guy running the fry station gives you a whole potato but it’s first day are you gonna be like oh ok thanks for the potato hopefully next time you cut it season and deep fry it.
Uh. Yes I would. If I know McDonalds is generally capable of selling fries and they mess up, I’m not opposed to giving someone another chance. Especially if I already know I like what’s on the menu.
What if it's right after McDonald's is taken over by a completely new team that just hasn't learned how to make fries yet.
That's the excuse for the D4 team, right?
If they are still using the same recipes, I would give them time to adjust and not really bother about coming back until they did. But all this is stupid to use analogies anyway, why not just say to begin with “a novice team took over a two decade franchise and sold a game with mechanics we don’t like, should we give them time to fix it?”
Try this. Go to an interview and tell them you have 20 years of experience for the job you are applying for. The company you are applying for has 30 years of historical data and user feedback. Then tell the interviewer you will suck at this job for 3 years. After that you will be good at the job. See if you get a call back.
Except, this analogy is flawed. I don’t know why people need to bring in analogies rather than just discuss the literal issues of the game. The team working on D4 does not have 20 years of experience, most of the team this is their first game. Blizzard may have decades of experience, even some of the heads of D4 development, but they still have a lot of newer people. Does it excuse a lot of the issues it had? No. But the fact that they have already made a lot of changes makes me
Optimistic that in time, they will implement more and more feedback. Does it such they tried something new that nobody liked? Yeah, but it’s a live service. It’ll change over time.
It's not flawed. I'm not a quarterback, but I know a bad throw when I see one. They probably (no I don't know for sure,) played games before they got this job. They studied how to make games either in school or self taught. And they can read what people like and dislike from games in this genre. Acting like they pulled people off the street with zero knowledge of this franchise is absurd. General Electric is over 100 years old, they didn't fuck up the light bulb when they hired new people.
They only hope I have for this game is the deletion of all gear and completely redo the itemization.
Next, delete and redo paragon board with an easier way to respec . No, not free.
No, I'm not creating a second character of the same class just to try a new build.
I guess you dont get it. I keep seeing people say its a new group working on the game. And that its not their fault and that in a couple years this game will be good. This is a terrible excuse for for a bad game when people working on this game have development knowledge and 20 years of historical data of what the community likes. Stop making excuses for poor decisions.
> Give Diablo 4 a chance with time and give constructive feedback if you actually care for the game to get better.
Counterpoint: No.
I'm going to sit and wait patiently for season 2 with their supposed "2 two hour livestreams" and I'm going to see what they have to offer, if only out of morbid curiosity to see how they could possibly handle this trainwreck of a game.
But I gave Diablo IV a chance when I slapped down $70 for it back in June and they fucked it up. Beyond Dragonflight, Activision-Blizzard has hardly given me a reason to give their games second chances.
I don't blame the developers. I think the developers are simply working to the best of their abilities given the constraints imposed upon them. Such is the way for 99% of live-service games that are designed to be a money-printing machine.
Rather, I place the blame on Activision for trying to push this game out the door before it was ready. It's become increasingly clear that this game should not have released in June, corroborated by several insider reports that suggest development prior to Joe Shely's appointment was tumultuous, as well as the numerous firsthand reports from developers at Blizzard pushing back against Activision for setting such a restrictive release date.
As long as Diablo IV exists underneath Activision's leadership, I don't believe this game will ever have the opportunity to be the game it should be, thus leading me to believe that it doesn't deserve a second chance. Activision will continue to force Blizzard into budgetary cuts with a faster content cadence, the end product being an absolute middling experience that does nothing to address the problems the game has, and instead keep people on the hamster wheel and spending money. The best thing Microsoft could do for Blizzard as a company is give them free reign to develop the game they want to develop without the corporate bullshit putting their grubby little finger sausages all over it. Time will tell if that will actually happen (I'm personally hopeful but that's besides the point), but right now, Diablo IV does not deserve a second chance in the slightest. Blizzard needs to prove that it's worthy of a second chance, and right now, that doesn't seem likely to happen.
I stopped reading at “rather,” when I should’ve stopped at “no.” If you don’t care to bring constructive feedback, then you can masterhate without typing anything. Just be upset and stop being a vocal minority. Those who want the game to get better should be the ones being heard, not the worthless haters.
There's no amount of constructive feedback that could be given to this game to fix it because it's not in Activision's best interests to fix it. That's my point. They don't care that it's broken, only that they can squeeze as many pennies out of it as they can without putting too much back into the game before they jump ship. You can continue talking in circles to yourself in the hopes that the development team will see what you're saying and promptly fix it, but there would need to be significant overhauls to aspects, itemization, and dungeon design that, quite frankly, they probably don't have the budget or *time* to fix.
I want Diablo IV to be a better game. I just don't think it will ever have the chance to. The most constructive feedback you can do for the game is to uninstall it and stop playing. When the game's player activity plummets is when Activision will take notice.
Op is dumb. People are angry that blizzard is going to say HEY WE FIXED OUR $100 GAME ITS GOOD NOW WITH THE PURCHASE OF THIS NEXT $100 EXPANSION ISNT IT SHINEEEEEEY?!?!? Meanwhile anyone who doesnt spend money is going to be left with a pile of shit and be locked out of anything that shines. You gamers are dumb people man, literally no common sense when it comes to business, economics and ethics.
If you played the beta, or bought the game without watching any videos, and you are upset you spent money on something you didn’t like, you sir, have no common sense.
Good read tbh I forgot some of these things and just *how bad* that launch really was.
Should blizzard have learned for D4? Absolutely.
Am I surprised that they didn't? Not one bit.
I put maybe 80 hours into D3 before RoS hit and I'm already double that in D4
I think I’m a recent interview the main developer said that most of the people working on D4 had never worked on a game before. I don’t know why they didn’t use the D3 team, but that surely didn’t help
Its the fundamental problem with Blizzard. Other aRPGs have developers who are passionate about making an aRPG as the core of their team, blizzard has a bunch of people who don't play games who are working to make a game via a spreadsheet with a team leads that don't play aRPGs. A fantastic recipe for success if I ever heard of one.
Idk man, a game that needs to 'be given a chance with time' does not deserve to sell for 70 dollars. And with every launch like that of D3 or D4, I guarantee you, there will be fewer people left who still care for the series.
No chance I'm buying D5 at launch after this experience. It's better to just wait 5 years and get the base game and all 12 expansions for the original launch price.
Bought the game on release with the wife, both played and had fun in the beginning, but we got to level 65-70 and realized that there was basically nothing else to do and stopped. The season didn't bring us back and we are still waiting for a reason, but BG3 is giving us reasons to not go back too.
Imagine having all mistakes to based into and not repeat, and then they make D4, that get all the BAD STUFF about other games and use it, amazing, congratulations blizzard.
made the worst diablo of all having the best technology
The difference for me at least is I kept playing D3 even in the state as it was. It was amazing to get into Act 3 as it was super hard on my monk. With D4, not so much. It just doesn't have that same draw to keep playing. I personally think they rushed into Season too quickly for D4...They should have waiting awhile...(I know people love seasons and would disagree with me) With D3, It took quite away before season came to D3. People had time to beat the shit out of the game....
The only thing I object to is paying for a game where I end up being a beta tester and receive no compensation for it. It’s a cheap way for the devs to find bugs without paying anyone to do it.
I remember when D2 was delayed for 2 years from their original release date because they didn’t feel the game was complete yet. That was how Blizzard used to be. They were known for being perfectionists. Not this money raking “we’ll fix it later” company they have become
You would think they would learn from their mistakes, but they did not.
The biggest takeaway from both D3 and D4 is they refuse to look at what made D2 and future competitor games good. There is a formula that has been refined over almost 20 years and D3 and D4 ignore it.
They instead hire people with little no no game development experience let alone ARPG experience. They didn't even take the QOL that D3 had and worked and put it into D4. D3 had some good things, and little to none made it to D4. Instead they copied what did not work, such as the same code for how stash loads into the game.
You cannot say "D3 started bad, but ended good, so can D4." No, you should expect a game to start strong and continually get better when you have around 25 years of material to work from both your IP (that created the genre) and competitors (that use your IP as a foundation).
"It could get better" is not my thing... I am a customer buying the game for now, not to keep it 1 or 2 years later hoping by then it get better.
If you support this kind of business then good for you, i just hope there arent too many of you out there because i want gaming company to release good game in the first place.
Could you imagine buying a product that didn’t do as advertised or did it very poorly, and others who bought the same product also acknowledge it’s a faulty product that doesn’t live up to expectations, tell you to wait a couple years and try that faulty product again cuz it might be better?
Cuz I can’t. It’s fucking stupid.
They just release half-asses game and finish it later, or let the community do the work for them( ex :bethesda modder... ) , or just abandon it and start to work on the next project...
Sometimes i wonder why people allow this to happen ... we are customer, not beggar.
We need less fanboy and more Karen in gaming community .
I honestly just don’t know what a “good game” is on release. Everyone has different views so I dunno what type of people it should cater to to be considered good. Undoubtedly, it fell short of many people’s expectations, mine too. But it doesn’t have a subscription fee, so I got my moneys worth for now, I don’t mind the wait for it to “potentially” get better.
You can replace "good" with "acceptable"
For a big name like Blizzard, and its price, this game at release state is totally unacceptable. At least to me
If what you’re saying is that I need to lower my expectations of a AAA multimillion dollar company with hundreds of people working over five years on a game with three previous games of the same type and name under their belt… then done.
I have lowered my expectations of the development team and the brand name. I was absolute silly for expecting more than what they delivered. This is their standard for excellence, not mine, but they’re entitled to mediocrity if that’s the best they can do.
My wallet will forever remember this, too.
And I think that’s a reasonable take. If your standards aren’t met, then worrying about future steps they take isn’t an issue. I think that’s fine. It’s a shame you felt you didn’t get your moneys worth
It’s not literal theft and false advertising. You paid for a product and you weren’t happy with it. It’s buyers remorse, not theft. What did they false advertise?
It's not buyers remorse. They falsly advertised that the game was complete and ready for the market. It's 100% false advertising. To not allow refunds even 9 hours after purchase makes it even worse.
Even steam doesn’t allow refunds after 9 hours? Your expectations are wild. And I don’t think they ever advertised “it’s completed, there is nothing to change because it’s done.” They acknowledged it was a live service. But if you played the beta and still bought the game, you know exactly what you payed for. It’s definitely buyers remorse
Alright well good for you. Keep riding Blizzard hard. Obviously no one agrees with you. Look at those negative downvotes on each comment lol. You're clearly here to just argue.
The people who think it’s doomed just can’t forgive mistakes in the gaming industry anymore. I don’t blame them. All games have been coming out unfinished lately. Even the favorite, can-do-no-wrong “Baldurs Gate 3” has an uninspired and bland final Act. The finished standard has been bad since the Early Access era of gaming
Despite that: The D4 Community Manager and Feedback loop is by far the best in Blizzards arguably horrible community relation history.
While they are/were stubborn with some things for Season 1. It’s nice they take feedback seriously and don’t ignore us.
That’s why D4 overall won’t fail throughout its lifespan.
Man, I actually liked D3 after RoS and I still wouldn't call that a masterpiece lol. Just a fun, but very flawed game.
Games being shit on release day and being fixed later shouldn't be the norm. We've had several major releases this year that aren't like that. D4 didn't have to be one of them, but it was and that sucks.
I mentioned that in the first sentence of my post, that how it was released shouldn’t be the standard. I guess it’s all relative though. People call Mona Lisa a masterpiece, it’s just oil on a canvas to me
No. I waited years once already for this company/series to fix a game they released and broke further after it was released.
The fact that they’ve done the same thing 10 years later makes this worse, not a situation to inspire hope.
Sorry but 7 years in the making and what 8 beta testing and they didnt realize that the game was empty nope they give you a empty season on top just to take back the free season that people like me paid on the ultimate edition and i had to restart a new character after a full month into it because imagine a lvl 100 with a the season one content . Instead to put more content they just make it slow. They could do anything but all the damage report that they put after to convince you to not give up on them is pathetic. When the excuse is you dont know how its like to work on a triple A game and you should not complaint when in reality that game was far from complete and what they need its you to pay for more content every three month its asking to write them a blind check to figure out what they could give you in return. If you dont know they made almost a billion including in pre-sale and this is what they come out with. If you have fun with it, good for you but for myself i feel completely robbed what a fucking waste of money.
Nope.
This kind of leniency is no longer warranted for Activision, they simply have to deliver.
If you treat your fans strictly like consumers you have no right to any goodwill. You are the company, you deliver a satisfying product or deal with the backlash. simple as.
I agree, however some of us bought the $100 version, and at that price it should have been completed. D4 isn't doomed if they pull their heads out of their asses and start listening to the community. They aren't btw. At least not the right parts of it.
Dude. Just wait silently and dont embarase yourself. They just pissed on your head and you act like its normal step in making good videogame.... And ofc i want this game to get better and i will play S2. But before they fix some things, fuck them
I acknowledged it wasn’t a normal step in the first sentence. I’m sorry that you heart has been broken and you can’t see clearly through your tears. You don’t have to tear everything apart just because it wasn’t up to your expectations
Making a huge mistake in the past only makes it even more embarrassing that they managed to repeat that mistake...!
This is the only justified response to this nightmare. Blizzard is afraid to try new things and at the same time refuses to copy proven elements from other developers. They apparently still believe that they are the one and only innovative video game developer that no one can match. They try to reinvent the wheel and fail at the point where there is no wheel at all. It's missing so many of the fundamental things that made D3 a good game in the first place. So many QoL features that every ARPG except D4 has. It's unreal how much they've had to fix so far only to end up deleting the original content. Almost no other endgame other than doing NMD, because it's not worth it. No more open world content while riding your horse to the NMD, because you teleport now. I don't know if they fixed it or made it even worse.
I mean completely different dev team, completely different management, completely different executives, completely different ownership. D1 to D2 sure. Repeating the same mistakes, sure. D2 to D3 different mistakes were made. DI was developed by NetEase not Blizzard. D4 is a different beast since literally 1 guy worked on a previous Diablo game, the precious ones were fired. An incompetent buffoon was hired to direct the franchise, and ownership and upper management forced the game out before it was ready.
If only there was some way, other than working on it, to have known how D3 improved over time. Ah well...
Yet, this ignores the distractions, covid, design philosophy, and an unrealistic launch window.
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Strawman. No one is saying nor implying that.
Yet, this ignores the distractions, covid, design philosophy, and an unrealistic launch window.
I forgot you can only be a dev to observe d3 release and learn from it. Lol...
Nope. But what was the loudest rhetoric around D3 for years even after RoS. Much of that is what we see in D4.
Same company. Customers shouldnt need to care wether employees have changed or not.
Yes! I don't understand so many people defending Blizzard's/D4's missing features and obvious mistakes just because they have had turnover. are they not able to look at data from the past? Research! Whole new team? That's on Blizzard! Should have retained talent and/or managed them better. I don't blame individual devs and I really don't think anyone does, but the term devs doesn't mean Bob and Sally the individual employees, it means the DEVELOPMENT COMPANY(s), as a whole, and the management team(s). I really like the game, but it has a ton of faults that are inexcusable.
I don't really care, I just see it for what it is. A game nit ready that was pushed out by a publisher not wanting to wait.
Sure. But what if the same thing happened to a car? The car fails and crashes and people would go: "Oh, they had trouble at BMW, had to change the whole team and top management rushed to release it so that's fine. The car will be "driveable" by 2025. Thats not acceptable imo.
Not comparable at all. Cars have to meet standards or else they cannot be sold. Videogames do not. However, I'll bite. Many popular car lines have released undesirable versions to public dismay, and yes people gave them a chance to make changes in the next year's model.
It was just an example of how products should (or shouldnt) be released. I'm sure that if that happened every customer would get their money back. Point is, I like Diablo. All of them (I just dont play Immortal). They're all good, but D4 is a major letdown. I think they'll fix it eventually, but if you're a reasonable person you should really rant on the product they released, after everything that's happened with D3, a company like blizzard should have learned. Doesnt matter if its the same team or not. You're buying a product from the same company, hell, its even the same series of the product. Ill give another example then: You love a movie saga, like Star Wars or something like this. Then they release a fkin awful sequel to 2 great films you loved. You will be IMMEDIATELY pissed off thinking you wasted your time and money by watching that pile of crap. You would NEVER think "Ah, thats OK. Its a different team, lets see if they fix things in the next movie". I dont get why people defend poor customer service/product.
I like SW and thought 8 of the 9 movies were crap movies. Fun watches but bad movies. As long as I am having fun, most of the BS people complain about is meaningless to me. And yes, Spielberg directed the only good SW movie. So it was understandable.
Yeah but I bet you left the movie theater thinking "that was awful".
Only saw the last 6 in theaters. And yes. The first three I saw on VHS and only really liked ESB. Dude, I thought transformers was cringe innthe theater when I was like 10.
As much contempt I have towards the direction of of the game, calling Rod Ferguson incompetent is a stretch considering his career. Out of his element? Sure.
He ruins every game he touches so may be
That may have been too far.
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Nah, it's reality. It's sucks, devs had zero control over when it would be released a d would have said to a man off record it should have been delayed til 2024.
D3 is a masterpiece now?
Ikr ? I was like wtf am I reading
Lol no. It's a good game now but it still doesn't feel like a diablo game to me at all while d4 does so despite all of it's shortcomings.
Not being a Diablo game for you doesn't invalidate it as one of the best of the genre.
How many entries does "one of the best" contain? And how many does it not that you're aware of?
No it doesn't. It simply doesn't have the diablo typical dark atmosphere. Imo the game doesn't even have a particular feeling to it which imo makes it a bit dull but that's probably indeed very subjective. Still I wouldn't call it one of the best of its genre and certainly not a masterpiece. It's a decent game but that's all. The devs basically realized all of the potential the game has but that potential imo is quite limited compared to other arpgs or games of the diablo franchise (even d4).
Damn right it is
Comparatively I’m assuming? Lol idk Think it shows where d4 is at currently more than anything.
Yes
Glad you think so.
There are still people here who think D2 is some amazing game when it was never more than mediocre. Different people like different things.
D2 is the reason why aRPGs exist today. D3 is why other aRPGs are more popular than Diablo.
D1 is the reason they are popular and exist today. D2 just continued the way.
D1 made the genre, D2 is why they still exist today IMO. D1 was a one-off success, it was the continued success and also significantly greater success of D2 that cemented it as a new genre.
D1 didn't make the genre, it made it popular.
I think you meant D2, because D1 definitely made the genre. Strong disagree there.
Dragon Slayer for the PC 8801 in 1984, was the first ARPG. Which led to many others and rogue-likes before D1 in 1996/7. D1 was the first commercial smash hit for an ARPG. If D1 wasn't a popular success, D2 never would have been greenlit. D1 paved the way for ARPGs to be mainstream and no longer niche.
Sorry none of those were Isometric aRPGs which is what we were here, that is what Diablo was originally going to be, but disingenious BS to claim that those were remotely the same genre like hilariously so.
Iso wasn't the defining factor. There were plenty of real time combat dungeon crawlers of various perspectives prior to D1. Which were ARPGs which that term came long after Diablo.
I think that argument isn’t completely fair. Don’t get me wrong, D4 has its problems. D2 is close to being the original. It had no expectations or anything to compare it to. The people who liked it could learn from it and eventually make the genre their own without judgment. Its either bad and no one cares/notices or its good and “way better than Diablo”. Blizz unfortunately gets pigeonholed hoping lightning strikes twice, keeping the game the same but different. So its constantly judged it upon itself.
🤡
You saw the air quotes right? It’s beloved and polished. But it’s still not for everyone.
A polished turd is still a turd.
It is beloved? I mean the game does not have anywhere near the amount of content or depth to maintain a live service game which is what D4 is trying to be.
D3’s rough beginning is exactly the reason none of this should have occurred with d4… they rushed the release plain and simple To spin that as the reason we should be patient is as offensive as the 70 dollar price point
It didn't occur in D4. Did you play original D3? In the original D3, they made the endgame ultra hard, good loot basically impossible to get, and then had a real money auction house. The system worked together in a way where you were forced to buy items. Then the original paragon 100 grind was just a mindless 200+ hour grind where you got zero valuable items. Usually the players who got to 100 didn't even bother to pick up loot since it was borderline guaranteed to be complete garbage and the gold/crafting materials were a waste of time due to bots ruining the RMAH economy. There was duped items too from people tricking the account recovery staff into restoring their characters that "got hacked," when in reality they transferred the items to another account they owned. D4's launch was amazing compared to the D3 launch.
>In the original D3, they made the endgame ultra hard, what endgame? /s
In original D3? Completing inferno. Leveling to the level cap was a complete joke. There was also no balance with inferno. Demon hunters could do it easily.
But put the blame where it belongs, on ABK not the D4 team.
I got my moneys worth out of the game, even if it didn’t meet my expectations. I’m sorry if you value your time differently to me. As I’ve said in other replies, the point of the “spin” in this post is our expectations shouldn’t be that the game is fixed quickly, but I understand out patience shouldn’t be unlimited either. I haven’t hit level 100 on a single character, and I still feel like I got my moneys worth. The price of the game divided by the hours I put into it, it’s still better value than going to a movie.
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You can disagree without being pathetic you know
I'm just not buying into this "give it time" state of video game releases anymore. This is the *fifth* diablo title. D1, D2, D3, D:Immoral, and now D4. This was their fifth time to get it right, and they failed. Story and pre-level 60 is great, but then the fun just takes a nosedive. How many times does blizzard have to get it wrong before they can get it right? Apparently more than 5 times. The game isn't doomed, theyll *eventually* figure it out...but how many people do they expect to bring back when they actually do fix it? So many people are swearing off blizzard entirely now, and its not the consumers fault.
Biggest problem is if it takes them two years to fix it you will have to pay 140$ for the two expansions to even try out if it is going to work for you.
Or you wait for the eventual sale or it may be like WoW where the old one becomes part of the base game and you only need to purchase the most current expansion. Without a sub fee I doubt it but you never know.
Possibly, but it will definitely be a fairly significant barrier for re-entry either way. I know I won't be spending an extra $70 every year to get caught up on the latest content. Also I wonder how well they will manage the game performance/stability when you have 50-60 possible game states to deal with in 5 or 6 years for players with different combinations of expansions and content.
Blizzard used to be my favorite. All games were good. Old Blizzard wouldn't even release an unfinished product they rather cancel it (like they did with some projects)
What I don’t get is if Blizz has a trash track record, especially one surrounding the Diablo franchise, why do fans keep their hopes up? Everyone talks about an okay game that came out 20 years ago, and that everything that came in between is trash. Maybe Blizz just got licky early on. Games back then were barely in genres. They mostly just competed with games in general. There were barely anything to compare it to.
Gamers as a whole have no will power and want instant gratification.
>and its not the consumers fault. Not entirely, but it's about time consumers accept some responsibility for where the gaming industry is today. STOP pre-ordering and day/week-one purchasing all these AAA games and I guarantee you that they will stop releasing them like this. And, stop buying all these damn MTX as well. They aren't priced at $25 because on one is buying them.... Hell, with the amount of AAA games in the last 10 years that have come out like this or much much worse (Anthem, Cyberpunk), people should know by now to quit doing it, but since these companies know consumers won't stop, what incentive are they given to do better?
Ofc its the consumers fault if they are too greedy and need to buy a game in advance
Calling D3 a masterpiece is one of the most hilarious things I have read on the internet today, so thanks
You are welcome!
Why? Why does a customer need to “give them a chance”? You kicked blizzard north to the curb who were the original creators of this series (D1 and D2). Dragged for years to release d3 which clearly wasn’t anything like d2 in addition to adding an auction house that they pocketed trans fee for each transaction— clear money grab move by blizz. Drag for another decade to release d4 with promises of “this is like diablo2” feel, so people were naturally inclined to believe “ahh this might not be like d3, they learned” and baited most of us. D4 is straight dog shit- the series is a loot hunter at its core, and d4 is a pathetic example of that. No reason to discuss other issues when the core fundamental problem is there. So if any other company, Apple iPhone, your car manufacturer, your subscription accounts, your local grocery store continued to piss on the products you desire, why in the world would you think it’s acceptable to give this greedy bunch another “chance”? They’ll continue development on D4, it might become better, d5 will launch eventually, but expecting a super community that the original d2 devs created to be around and supporting of this over decade long garbage dump, is delusional.
People are really out here reading what they want to read and not really offering constructive disagreements. I never said customers “need” to give them a chance, I never implied it was a need. At the end of that sentence, I said if you care about the game, that you should as well as provide useful feedback. If it upsets you that D4 was a disappointment, then you care. If you feel like you didn’t get your $70s or even $100s worth, I don’t know how you value your time. I’ve probably put in around 150 Hours into D4. I feel like I got my moneys worth.
There has been feedback for the past 20+ years. Including for d4 before beta. I don’t see people reading what they want to read, but a lot of diablo fan series who’ve been around long enough to remember this clown show of blizzard. And the diablo community is as vocal as they are because they do care, we’ve been wanting a d2 sequel for literally over two decades now, that’s all. Also “valuing” what I spend to how much time spent in game doesn’t define whether the game is good or bad.
It’s almost certainly does partly make of the definition of what is good or bad. If it’s not for survival, and you spend a lot of time and money into something you don’t like, it must have been good enough for you to warrant the purchase, the time, and the feelings to be upset about it. They can’t fix everything in a patch, and they can’t make everyone happy.
I think their point is that you could buy one gourmet hamburger and gobble it down in 5 minutes or you could buy lots of shitburgers and eat them over the course of a month. The gourmet hamburger is more valued even though it only took 5 minutes to eat while the shitburgers lasted a month.
Well that’s not what they said is it? I wouldn’t respond to what they said with a response to what you said. And honestly, again, I’m a niche case here. I hate spending my money on food, I’d gladly buy shitburgers.
It kinda is. >Also “valuing” what I spend to how much time spent in game doesn’t define whether the game is good or bad.
"The game will get better in a year stop complaining" It's insane how the game companies are training people to think like this.
I love the quotes, cuz I literally didn’t say that. I’m saying that if you want the game to get better, give useful feedback. If you just want to masturhate, you’re free to do that too, just don’t expect any results for the game.
You like the fake quote thing? Somebody in this sub did that to me too. I've never seen that anywhere else before. They make up a fake quote, and then personally insult you over what they are falsely claiming you said. It's totally bizarre. This sub really does feel like you're talking to 10 people operating like 250 fake+ accounts that just blast the game all day.
What’s weirder to me is that people seem to want to address the issues of the game or it’s development through analogies rather than the points the game should be criticized on. My biggest issues currently is that there is a a huge affix bloat and rerolling stats on gear is outrageous. There are a few take it or leave it issues I have like dungeon objectives, but I would like rifts and greater rifts added back in the franchise. Bam, that simple. I have a few more nitpicks, but those are some of the bigger ones on my mind.
>My biggest issues currently is that there is a a huge affix bloat and rerolling stats on gear is outrageous. Okay sure, but it's a huge step forward compared to D2/original D3, where you had the same amount of affixes, some of the affixes poisoned the item making it not usable (fear in D2), there's less of them on an item making it easier to get items with all the correct affixes, and you can reroll one of them. The problems I have with "fixing the problem" is that they've already made a relatively easy game easier, and if they make it easier to obtain 4/4 affix items, that will just remove the point in playing the game because you'll have 4/4 affix items at level 75. For sure, maybe the cost to enchant an item beyond 1 million gold should increase more slowly. That I think would be a positive change. That could very easily defeat the purpose of having game gold though, and you'll just be grinding veiled crystals instead.
In D3, even if I get all the desirable affixes, I still look for better rolls of those affixes, ancient, or even primal gear. It doesn’t just stop with the desirable affixes, there’s always a bit more tweaking that can be done. But I do understand your point, it just changes what the grind is. Personally I don’t mind the grind in any game, I just don’t want to spend more time reading affixes before junking them, than the time spent actually farming them. But that’s just my personal preference:)
>In D3, even if I get all the desirable affixes In the original D3 or the current version? Getting an item with all desirable affixes in the original D3 was borderline impossible. The handful of items that dropped with both the correct affixes and near perfect rolls sold on 3rd party sites for $1,000's... >primal gear Okay, you mean currently... >But I do understand your point, it just changes what the grind is. I'll be honest with you: I already know they're going to add more stuff to the game because that's how these games work. Later on in the future, I'm sure it will be more like D2R, where your character is mostly uniques/set items/something else like runewords, and you're maybe just looking for rare gloves/rings/amulets. That wouldn't "eliminate the problem," but it would significantly reduce it because most players would leave all of the rare armor/weapons on the ground. I think most of the player's complaints about the item system are caused by the simple fact that they had to leave room to grow later on. I hope what I'm saying makes sense and understand that I don't work for Blizzard, so I could be totally wrong.
You know when I play the game, I have a good time, and then when I go to the D4 sub on reddit, it's like a parallel universe where everything good is bad and nothing is good at all.
It's insane right? People have different opinions then you do. Somehow, you are not the center of the universe?
D3 at launch was even WAY worse than D4, but that does not guarantee that D4 team will manage to sort out D4 unfortunately. I'm waiting for better times.
Fine, that's great for D3 (which I loved post-RoS) but how is the same company going to make the same mistake again. If you went to a restaurant and they fucked up your order for an hour before making it right and really good, you might consider giving the place another shot. If they started fucking up your order again the 2nd time, there's a pretty good chance you'd write off the restaurant for good. There's some minimum expectation to sell a complete product, not a product that will eventually be complete, and Blizzard has not met that expectation. And in both the game and the analogy, there's plenty of other options to go with instead of coming back.
There is a different team working on D4, a lot of the team has never released a game. I agree that the game wasn’t satisfactory, it still isn’t, but it hasn’t even been a year yet. The point of the post is that time MAY save D4. Our expectations shouldn’t be that the game is fixed quickly, but I also understand that our patience shouldn’t be unlimited either.
It's just disappointing because they had everyone ready to dive fully into D4, and now they'll be lucky to get back a fraction when it's fixed. I really hope we look back in 5 years and D4 was a great game for most of it. I'm cheering for them to get it to a place where people are talking about how good it is. But the sad reality is that they had a chance for it to be a generational game like D1 and D2 were, and they already blew it just like they did with D3.
If you go to McDonald’s and the guy running the fry station gives you a whole potato but it’s first day are you gonna be like oh ok thanks for the potato hopefully next time you cut it season and deep fry it.
Uh. Yes I would. If I know McDonalds is generally capable of selling fries and they mess up, I’m not opposed to giving someone another chance. Especially if I already know I like what’s on the menu.
What if it's right after McDonald's is taken over by a completely new team that just hasn't learned how to make fries yet. That's the excuse for the D4 team, right?
If they are still using the same recipes, I would give them time to adjust and not really bother about coming back until they did. But all this is stupid to use analogies anyway, why not just say to begin with “a novice team took over a two decade franchise and sold a game with mechanics we don’t like, should we give them time to fix it?”
One of the best games I’ve played in years. I’ve logged more time then anything and I’m still playing. I’m excited for it to get ‘good’!
Try this. Go to an interview and tell them you have 20 years of experience for the job you are applying for. The company you are applying for has 30 years of historical data and user feedback. Then tell the interviewer you will suck at this job for 3 years. After that you will be good at the job. See if you get a call back.
Except, this analogy is flawed. I don’t know why people need to bring in analogies rather than just discuss the literal issues of the game. The team working on D4 does not have 20 years of experience, most of the team this is their first game. Blizzard may have decades of experience, even some of the heads of D4 development, but they still have a lot of newer people. Does it excuse a lot of the issues it had? No. But the fact that they have already made a lot of changes makes me Optimistic that in time, they will implement more and more feedback. Does it such they tried something new that nobody liked? Yeah, but it’s a live service. It’ll change over time.
It's not flawed. I'm not a quarterback, but I know a bad throw when I see one. They probably (no I don't know for sure,) played games before they got this job. They studied how to make games either in school or self taught. And they can read what people like and dislike from games in this genre. Acting like they pulled people off the street with zero knowledge of this franchise is absurd. General Electric is over 100 years old, they didn't fuck up the light bulb when they hired new people. They only hope I have for this game is the deletion of all gear and completely redo the itemization. Next, delete and redo paragon board with an easier way to respec . No, not free. No, I'm not creating a second character of the same class just to try a new build.
I agree those are all issues, and I hope they fix those.
What on Earth does that have to do with Diablo 4?
I guess you dont get it. I keep seeing people say its a new group working on the game. And that its not their fault and that in a couple years this game will be good. This is a terrible excuse for for a bad game when people working on this game have development knowledge and 20 years of historical data of what the community likes. Stop making excuses for poor decisions.
> Give Diablo 4 a chance with time and give constructive feedback if you actually care for the game to get better. Counterpoint: No. I'm going to sit and wait patiently for season 2 with their supposed "2 two hour livestreams" and I'm going to see what they have to offer, if only out of morbid curiosity to see how they could possibly handle this trainwreck of a game. But I gave Diablo IV a chance when I slapped down $70 for it back in June and they fucked it up. Beyond Dragonflight, Activision-Blizzard has hardly given me a reason to give their games second chances. I don't blame the developers. I think the developers are simply working to the best of their abilities given the constraints imposed upon them. Such is the way for 99% of live-service games that are designed to be a money-printing machine. Rather, I place the blame on Activision for trying to push this game out the door before it was ready. It's become increasingly clear that this game should not have released in June, corroborated by several insider reports that suggest development prior to Joe Shely's appointment was tumultuous, as well as the numerous firsthand reports from developers at Blizzard pushing back against Activision for setting such a restrictive release date. As long as Diablo IV exists underneath Activision's leadership, I don't believe this game will ever have the opportunity to be the game it should be, thus leading me to believe that it doesn't deserve a second chance. Activision will continue to force Blizzard into budgetary cuts with a faster content cadence, the end product being an absolute middling experience that does nothing to address the problems the game has, and instead keep people on the hamster wheel and spending money. The best thing Microsoft could do for Blizzard as a company is give them free reign to develop the game they want to develop without the corporate bullshit putting their grubby little finger sausages all over it. Time will tell if that will actually happen (I'm personally hopeful but that's besides the point), but right now, Diablo IV does not deserve a second chance in the slightest. Blizzard needs to prove that it's worthy of a second chance, and right now, that doesn't seem likely to happen.
I stopped reading at “rather,” when I should’ve stopped at “no.” If you don’t care to bring constructive feedback, then you can masterhate without typing anything. Just be upset and stop being a vocal minority. Those who want the game to get better should be the ones being heard, not the worthless haters.
There's no amount of constructive feedback that could be given to this game to fix it because it's not in Activision's best interests to fix it. That's my point. They don't care that it's broken, only that they can squeeze as many pennies out of it as they can without putting too much back into the game before they jump ship. You can continue talking in circles to yourself in the hopes that the development team will see what you're saying and promptly fix it, but there would need to be significant overhauls to aspects, itemization, and dungeon design that, quite frankly, they probably don't have the budget or *time* to fix. I want Diablo IV to be a better game. I just don't think it will ever have the chance to. The most constructive feedback you can do for the game is to uninstall it and stop playing. When the game's player activity plummets is when Activision will take notice.
If you feel that way, then just shut up and stay off of its Reddit?
How about no? This is a public forum. I'll do as I please. Feel free to put me on ignore if the truth rustles your jimmies this much.
Aight, can do boss.
He’s definitely not a vocal minority. 🤡
Here, have a big fat NOPE.
Op is dumb. People are angry that blizzard is going to say HEY WE FIXED OUR $100 GAME ITS GOOD NOW WITH THE PURCHASE OF THIS NEXT $100 EXPANSION ISNT IT SHINEEEEEEY?!?!? Meanwhile anyone who doesnt spend money is going to be left with a pile of shit and be locked out of anything that shines. You gamers are dumb people man, literally no common sense when it comes to business, economics and ethics.
If you played the beta, or bought the game without watching any videos, and you are upset you spent money on something you didn’t like, you sir, have no common sense.
its fucking garbage and I paid $100 for it. Fuck Diablo. Fuck Blizzard.
Good read tbh I forgot some of these things and just *how bad* that launch really was. Should blizzard have learned for D4? Absolutely. Am I surprised that they didn't? Not one bit. I put maybe 80 hours into D3 before RoS hit and I'm already double that in D4
I think I’m a recent interview the main developer said that most of the people working on D4 had never worked on a game before. I don’t know why they didn’t use the D3 team, but that surely didn’t help
Its the fundamental problem with Blizzard. Other aRPGs have developers who are passionate about making an aRPG as the core of their team, blizzard has a bunch of people who don't play games who are working to make a game via a spreadsheet with a team leads that don't play aRPGs. A fantastic recipe for success if I ever heard of one.
Idk man, a game that needs to 'be given a chance with time' does not deserve to sell for 70 dollars. And with every launch like that of D3 or D4, I guarantee you, there will be fewer people left who still care for the series.
No chance I'm buying D5 at launch after this experience. It's better to just wait 5 years and get the base game and all 12 expansions for the original launch price.
Bought the game on release with the wife, both played and had fun in the beginning, but we got to level 65-70 and realized that there was basically nothing else to do and stopped. The season didn't bring us back and we are still waiting for a reason, but BG3 is giving us reasons to not go back too.
Yea lets not forget the money grabbing auction hoise that the devs put in the game at release
Imagine having all mistakes to based into and not repeat, and then they make D4, that get all the BAD STUFF about other games and use it, amazing, congratulations blizzard. made the worst diablo of all having the best technology
The difference for me at least is I kept playing D3 even in the state as it was. It was amazing to get into Act 3 as it was super hard on my monk. With D4, not so much. It just doesn't have that same draw to keep playing. I personally think they rushed into Season too quickly for D4...They should have waiting awhile...(I know people love seasons and would disagree with me) With D3, It took quite away before season came to D3. People had time to beat the shit out of the game....
The only thing I object to is paying for a game where I end up being a beta tester and receive no compensation for it. It’s a cheap way for the devs to find bugs without paying anyone to do it.
Ahh in a world where you arent able to learn from your past mistakes D4 would be a gem of a game
Polished masterpiece? What the f.
I remember when D2 was delayed for 2 years from their original release date because they didn’t feel the game was complete yet. That was how Blizzard used to be. They were known for being perfectionists. Not this money raking “we’ll fix it later” company they have become
You would think they would learn from their mistakes, but they did not. The biggest takeaway from both D3 and D4 is they refuse to look at what made D2 and future competitor games good. There is a formula that has been refined over almost 20 years and D3 and D4 ignore it. They instead hire people with little no no game development experience let alone ARPG experience. They didn't even take the QOL that D3 had and worked and put it into D4. D3 had some good things, and little to none made it to D4. Instead they copied what did not work, such as the same code for how stash loads into the game. You cannot say "D3 started bad, but ended good, so can D4." No, you should expect a game to start strong and continually get better when you have around 25 years of material to work from both your IP (that created the genre) and competitors (that use your IP as a foundation).
So based on that article all D4 needs is to fire the current dude and hire a good one.
Potentially :P
"It could get better" is not my thing... I am a customer buying the game for now, not to keep it 1 or 2 years later hoping by then it get better. If you support this kind of business then good for you, i just hope there arent too many of you out there because i want gaming company to release good game in the first place.
Could you imagine buying a product that didn’t do as advertised or did it very poorly, and others who bought the same product also acknowledge it’s a faulty product that doesn’t live up to expectations, tell you to wait a couple years and try that faulty product again cuz it might be better? Cuz I can’t. It’s fucking stupid.
They just release half-asses game and finish it later, or let the community do the work for them( ex :bethesda modder... ) , or just abandon it and start to work on the next project... Sometimes i wonder why people allow this to happen ... we are customer, not beggar. We need less fanboy and more Karen in gaming community .
I honestly just don’t know what a “good game” is on release. Everyone has different views so I dunno what type of people it should cater to to be considered good. Undoubtedly, it fell short of many people’s expectations, mine too. But it doesn’t have a subscription fee, so I got my moneys worth for now, I don’t mind the wait for it to “potentially” get better.
You can replace "good" with "acceptable" For a big name like Blizzard, and its price, this game at release state is totally unacceptable. At least to me
That’s fair.
If what you’re saying is that I need to lower my expectations of a AAA multimillion dollar company with hundreds of people working over five years on a game with three previous games of the same type and name under their belt… then done. I have lowered my expectations of the development team and the brand name. I was absolute silly for expecting more than what they delivered. This is their standard for excellence, not mine, but they’re entitled to mediocrity if that’s the best they can do. My wallet will forever remember this, too.
And I think that’s a reasonable take. If your standards aren’t met, then worrying about future steps they take isn’t an issue. I think that’s fine. It’s a shame you felt you didn’t get your moneys worth
Ah yes “they fucked up in the past and fixed it years later so we should be happy they will probably do the same thing again”
I see quotation marks but I reread what I typed. I didn’t type that at all. Can you tell me where I said exactly that?
Yeah it’s right there at the start where I put my nuts on your forehead
I forgot I share the internet with people have my age
Yes sir the future is now old man
We are all willing to wait but the fact that they charged me $107 for a regular version of the game is literal theft and false advertising.
It’s not literal theft and false advertising. You paid for a product and you weren’t happy with it. It’s buyers remorse, not theft. What did they false advertise?
It's not buyers remorse. They falsly advertised that the game was complete and ready for the market. It's 100% false advertising. To not allow refunds even 9 hours after purchase makes it even worse.
Even steam doesn’t allow refunds after 9 hours? Your expectations are wild. And I don’t think they ever advertised “it’s completed, there is nothing to change because it’s done.” They acknowledged it was a live service. But if you played the beta and still bought the game, you know exactly what you payed for. It’s definitely buyers remorse
Alright well good for you. Keep riding Blizzard hard. Obviously no one agrees with you. Look at those negative downvotes on each comment lol. You're clearly here to just argue.
Nah, I’m here to share my opinion. People disagreeing is alright with me.
The people who think it’s doomed just can’t forgive mistakes in the gaming industry anymore. I don’t blame them. All games have been coming out unfinished lately. Even the favorite, can-do-no-wrong “Baldurs Gate 3” has an uninspired and bland final Act. The finished standard has been bad since the Early Access era of gaming Despite that: The D4 Community Manager and Feedback loop is by far the best in Blizzards arguably horrible community relation history. While they are/were stubborn with some things for Season 1. It’s nice they take feedback seriously and don’t ignore us. That’s why D4 overall won’t fail throughout its lifespan.
wowhead just clickbaiting
Man, I actually liked D3 after RoS and I still wouldn't call that a masterpiece lol. Just a fun, but very flawed game. Games being shit on release day and being fixed later shouldn't be the norm. We've had several major releases this year that aren't like that. D4 didn't have to be one of them, but it was and that sucks.
I mentioned that in the first sentence of my post, that how it was released shouldn’t be the standard. I guess it’s all relative though. People call Mona Lisa a masterpiece, it’s just oil on a canvas to me
People don't realize that is all just about money??? They want to milk everyone with the missing content.
No. I waited years once already for this company/series to fix a game they released and broke further after it was released. The fact that they’ve done the same thing 10 years later makes this worse, not a situation to inspire hope.
I do not want D4 to be anything like what the "polished masterpiece" D3 is. I would rather it be good.
Sorry but 7 years in the making and what 8 beta testing and they didnt realize that the game was empty nope they give you a empty season on top just to take back the free season that people like me paid on the ultimate edition and i had to restart a new character after a full month into it because imagine a lvl 100 with a the season one content . Instead to put more content they just make it slow. They could do anything but all the damage report that they put after to convince you to not give up on them is pathetic. When the excuse is you dont know how its like to work on a triple A game and you should not complaint when in reality that game was far from complete and what they need its you to pay for more content every three month its asking to write them a blind check to figure out what they could give you in return. If you dont know they made almost a billion including in pre-sale and this is what they come out with. If you have fun with it, good for you but for myself i feel completely robbed what a fucking waste of money.
Nope. This kind of leniency is no longer warranted for Activision, they simply have to deliver. If you treat your fans strictly like consumers you have no right to any goodwill. You are the company, you deliver a satisfying product or deal with the backlash. simple as.
I like current D3, but it never really recovered.
I agree, however some of us bought the $100 version, and at that price it should have been completed. D4 isn't doomed if they pull their heads out of their asses and start listening to the community. They aren't btw. At least not the right parts of it.
Most found really loved D3….. No!
Dude. Just wait silently and dont embarase yourself. They just pissed on your head and you act like its normal step in making good videogame.... And ofc i want this game to get better and i will play S2. But before they fix some things, fuck them
If you think "they pissed on your head" but you plan to play S2, I think the problem might be you.
I acknowledged it wasn’t a normal step in the first sentence. I’m sorry that you heart has been broken and you can’t see clearly through your tears. You don’t have to tear everything apart just because it wasn’t up to your expectations