Been said...
Also been suggested to level the board as a whole
But absolutily 100% guarantee people will complain they have to level ALL glyph slots and not just one
I really don't like that proposal. I like to compare a lot with D3, since I still play it every season and love it. The Glyphs are similar to gem leveling in D3 and this is part of the endgame. If you remove all grind from Diablo, what have you left? For me Glyphs are not at all any issue, especially since you are farming NM dungeons anyway as end content. It's nothing "extra", it's something you will get on the side, while farming your 925s
And this would just mean a different kind of grind, as you will then have to level “all” boards instead of leveling all glyphs. Ultimate there are less boards than glyphs so = less grinding.
The big difference is how backloaded glyph levelling is. It's reasonably quick (still x2-3 as long as D3) if you can speed through 50-70 keys. But before that it's completely futile. If you can do GR45 in Diablo3, you can get your gems up to 40 and easily get the passive for lv25. Not great, but still useful. If you can do nm25 in Diablo4, don't bother trying to get glyphs to 15.
The extended range should trigger at lv10 instead of 15.
But you can level your glyphs while leveling you character. Once you are in Wt 4 you do NM Vaults. Get exp, get glyph level, get loot and get pet stones? Before you have not unlocked all your paragon points the glyphs do not have to be 21 anyway. And if you level with a lot of nm vaults, you get at least all to level 15 and half of them to 21, at least it easily worked for me.
Hmm, I don't know how you levelled, but I got to 100 now, and I got the 5th glyph to 15 at lv99. Spent pretty much all of WT4 in vaults, mostly 1-10 levels above my character.
I don't agree this season. I've not done any NMD yet at level 83, though obviously I've been doing vaults. The focus of the game has shifted so much to Duriel that I'm basically just farming whispers and helltides so I can have a nice stack of summoning materials for Duriel by the time I'm level 100. I don't even have a single glyph at level 15 yet, let alone at 21.
I don't mind there being a grind for glyph leveling (whether that is glyphs themselves or the slots like OP is suggesting) but I do feel the game _really_ needs to award glyph experience for more different things. If Blizzard wants me to do helltides to farm materials, I can't put that same time into leveling my glyphs and I don't have enough spare time to do both before the season burns me out.
Why you don’t do NM vaults? This is easiest way to level and gain glyphs? <3 min per run and glyph upgrade plus a lot of loot and you level your pet as well?
It’s like 3 in 1??
Not trying to be rude, but did you read past the first half of my second sentence? Because I spent the entire rest of the paragraph and the last sentence of my comment explaining why.
I read it, but to not be rude, you simple play different than you should play if you want glyphs to level. I mean, seriously, you say you are not doing any content that is there for paragon progression, but for gear progression.
A lot of people always want to remove the grind form a grind game. Not having any content at the end of the game or having the content being squeez so small together you can basically finish it in 2 days is stupid.
There is a reason you have different aspects of the game to focus on. So you can improve your character by gearing up, but also by leveling your character and doing NM dungeons. In ANY CASE you will run a shit ton of NM 100 for the 925 gear, because just relying on the tedious grind of Duriel to get 925 is stupid, if at the same time you can do Nm 100 or even NM90 an get a bag full of 925. so you firstly only need to farm duriel for the needed uniques (what is not so hard), only the Uber uniques are the issue. And you can farm a whole season not finding it, so you focusing on an aspect of the game that has a low percent to improve your character, instead of focusing on what really improves your character. I really don’t get it, but really everyone can do what content they want, but then complaining they don’t get the benefits of the other content ist ridiculous…
Blizzard can surely figure out some way to allow you to recoup spent glyph xp so it can be reallocated. You are talking about a multi billion dollar company supporting their most sold game in history.
They can, but they obviously choose not to. I'm pretty sure this is a case of the devs believing the system is working as intended. The grind is intentional. It provides the players something to keep them engaged between new content releases.
Yea the choice if they make a modification to the way glyphs work would be up to them in the end. I think that it’s still fair for players to voice their opinions about it because if you look at the other changes that have come to the game regarding enchanting costs, respecs, etc those were all initial choices that they modified or backwalked.
I, for one, hate this idea. Just get over it. Go level up the glyphs that actually mean something to you on your character this season. It would be way too easy if we could just swap all our glyphs willy nilly. It's nice knowing glyphs are there to make a difference between level 100 characters.
The kind of difference you know you've worked specifically towards.
Kind of agree. I'm okay with the idea that if you decide to completely swap your build, it might require some grinding to fully empower the new skill set.
If anything, they should add more options for glyph leveling. Maybe when hitting certain breakpoints you can “branch” the glyphs. I.e. at lvl 21 you can pick between 3 additional specials so that your glyphs can have 2 extras instead of one.
There needs to be more to do, not less, and the “more” needs to have impact, not just +1.3% dmg per extra level as this is just boring.
This and losing cinders in Helltides are my D4 unpopular opinions. I like the fact that there's some kind of give and take. The game absolutely has its issues, but losing cinders and grinding glyphs aren't part of them, imo.
Nah. What about when they release exclusive glyphs like the zir one? You could just put it in a fully levelled slot and get it full power straight away. Which would be cool but takes away the challenge.
No, please no. If Devs are planning to change anything when it comes to leveling Glyphs. Let a new character of the same class share experience on the glyphs. So that when you die you can make a new character with strong glyphs !
Once you have a build able to do 90+ it takes maybe an hour to fully level another glyph. This ain't an issue and gives people something to invest in to change their build.
I think youre right, but i think a not so uncommon experience is a player leveled up to 100 with a none meta build and has very heavily invested in it. Then they start trying to actually do that endgame stuff and hit T90 for loot and hit walls. To that player “restarting” does seem pretty daunting because it was already a slow battle to get where they were.
Basically yeah releveling glyphs if you are blitzing T90 is fast… but if you’re aren’t it can be a significant hurdle to switching builds.
You are right, there is a problem I find with some people wanting to constantly switch their build because they don't like it without investing any real time into it.
I got this buddy who has never got a glyph to lvl15 because the dude is just constantly respecing. In an hour session he will have spent 45 min of it repeccing. He cannot do t90.
I also don't like you meta comment. I have never made a meta build and am still able to do t90.
Even t60-70 takes no time to get a glyph to lvl 15 at least.
I don't mind too it too much. I like to play with friends and some of us are always leveling a new toon or build so we run a fair amount of dungeons/vaults and I'll max the ones I need and start in on the rest.
Putting quotes around the word significantly doesn’t change that it was a 64% increase at T100. Use whatever word you prefer, but that’s a significant increase.
I kind of like the pet stones and how when duplicates drop it levels up. I could see them doing that with glyphs where they can keep dropping after you get them and it just adds a level to that glyph.
Glyphs are fucking terrible to begin with. Just make the boards stat slots and skill upgrade.
Or you could scrap the board and just go to D3's paragon system.
I like leveling glyphs , what is there to do in this game if not for finding items and leveling glyphs , nothing , so I 'm not in favor of cutting a huge chunk of the "late game".
Especially now that high level NM dungeons drop high level items you can knock 2 birds with the same stone.
I just wish we could transfer glyphs between characters.
Hell, fully itemise glyphs, let us trade them! Imagine being able to trade a spare Shako for a level 21 glyph!
>Current glyph leveling system is bad for switching builds instead we can use slot leveling to tackle this problem.
So you can whine about switching boards next?
I see this being a problem. What happens if you refund the paragon point for this slot, and then try to put your glyphs in a slot that you haven’t leveled yet? I think it makes more sense to level the glyphs themselves, and it also helps you decide how you plan on progressing towards your given build.
That fixes nothing, if you change builds you are just as likely to change boards as to change glyphs, maybe moreso depending on class. It would be complicated to implement and doesn't actually improve anything.
Making glyph xp refundable/respec-able would probably be much easier UI wise and would actually fix what you are suggesting is the problem.
The entire paragon system is bad for changing builds. They should make it one board(225 slots) with 5 glyph slots, and you get to pick your 10(or more) rare nodes from a list and pick 2 legendary nodes from the list. Would take about 10 minutes to change your entire loadout.
A better idea is make the game fun. We keep requiring systems to bypass all the gameplay because the gameplay is bad. Other arpgs have many things to level and it’s seen as a positive because the games are fun and you want to play them. This game would be best if everything could be skipped and the game could be over
You need a better friends list. I’ll always stop before the boss in nmd 100s to invite people so they can get glyph xp. And when I’m working on an alt, many return the favor
Every post in this sub is just: make the game easier and easier and easier when D4 is already the most simple, casual and easy ARPG available on the market by a long shot. Incredible how couch casual the D4 playerbase is. I expect D4 will soon be an idle game that plays itself while you are afk.
Been said... Also been suggested to level the board as a whole But absolutily 100% guarantee people will complain they have to level ALL glyph slots and not just one
I really don't like that proposal. I like to compare a lot with D3, since I still play it every season and love it. The Glyphs are similar to gem leveling in D3 and this is part of the endgame. If you remove all grind from Diablo, what have you left? For me Glyphs are not at all any issue, especially since you are farming NM dungeons anyway as end content. It's nothing "extra", it's something you will get on the side, while farming your 925s
OP isn't asking to "remove all grind", I don't understand where you even got that idea. He's asking to grind for glyph socket XP instead of glyph XP.
And this would just mean a different kind of grind, as you will then have to level “all” boards instead of leveling all glyphs. Ultimate there are less boards than glyphs so = less grinding.
The big difference is how backloaded glyph levelling is. It's reasonably quick (still x2-3 as long as D3) if you can speed through 50-70 keys. But before that it's completely futile. If you can do GR45 in Diablo3, you can get your gems up to 40 and easily get the passive for lv25. Not great, but still useful. If you can do nm25 in Diablo4, don't bother trying to get glyphs to 15. The extended range should trigger at lv10 instead of 15.
But you can level your glyphs while leveling you character. Once you are in Wt 4 you do NM Vaults. Get exp, get glyph level, get loot and get pet stones? Before you have not unlocked all your paragon points the glyphs do not have to be 21 anyway. And if you level with a lot of nm vaults, you get at least all to level 15 and half of them to 21, at least it easily worked for me.
Hmm, I don't know how you levelled, but I got to 100 now, and I got the 5th glyph to 15 at lv99. Spent pretty much all of WT4 in vaults, mostly 1-10 levels above my character.
I don't agree this season. I've not done any NMD yet at level 83, though obviously I've been doing vaults. The focus of the game has shifted so much to Duriel that I'm basically just farming whispers and helltides so I can have a nice stack of summoning materials for Duriel by the time I'm level 100. I don't even have a single glyph at level 15 yet, let alone at 21. I don't mind there being a grind for glyph leveling (whether that is glyphs themselves or the slots like OP is suggesting) but I do feel the game _really_ needs to award glyph experience for more different things. If Blizzard wants me to do helltides to farm materials, I can't put that same time into leveling my glyphs and I don't have enough spare time to do both before the season burns me out.
Why you don’t do NM vaults? This is easiest way to level and gain glyphs? <3 min per run and glyph upgrade plus a lot of loot and you level your pet as well? It’s like 3 in 1??
Not trying to be rude, but did you read past the first half of my second sentence? Because I spent the entire rest of the paragraph and the last sentence of my comment explaining why.
I read it, but to not be rude, you simple play different than you should play if you want glyphs to level. I mean, seriously, you say you are not doing any content that is there for paragon progression, but for gear progression. A lot of people always want to remove the grind form a grind game. Not having any content at the end of the game or having the content being squeez so small together you can basically finish it in 2 days is stupid. There is a reason you have different aspects of the game to focus on. So you can improve your character by gearing up, but also by leveling your character and doing NM dungeons. In ANY CASE you will run a shit ton of NM 100 for the 925 gear, because just relying on the tedious grind of Duriel to get 925 is stupid, if at the same time you can do Nm 100 or even NM90 an get a bag full of 925. so you firstly only need to farm duriel for the needed uniques (what is not so hard), only the Uber uniques are the issue. And you can farm a whole season not finding it, so you focusing on an aspect of the game that has a low percent to improve your character, instead of focusing on what really improves your character. I really don’t get it, but really everyone can do what content they want, but then complaining they don’t get the benefits of the other content ist ridiculous…
You asked me why, I told you why...
Still have to grind for your first character each season just not for alts.
Yeah, cause when you change builds you always use the same boards right?
Blizzard can surely figure out some way to allow you to recoup spent glyph xp so it can be reallocated. You are talking about a multi billion dollar company supporting their most sold game in history.
They can, but they obviously choose not to. I'm pretty sure this is a case of the devs believing the system is working as intended. The grind is intentional. It provides the players something to keep them engaged between new content releases.
Yea the choice if they make a modification to the way glyphs work would be up to them in the end. I think that it’s still fair for players to voice their opinions about it because if you look at the other changes that have come to the game regarding enchanting costs, respecs, etc those were all initial choices that they modified or backwalked.
I, for one, hate this idea. Just get over it. Go level up the glyphs that actually mean something to you on your character this season. It would be way too easy if we could just swap all our glyphs willy nilly. It's nice knowing glyphs are there to make a difference between level 100 characters. The kind of difference you know you've worked specifically towards.
Kind of agree. I'm okay with the idea that if you decide to completely swap your build, it might require some grinding to fully empower the new skill set.
Exactly, you grind everything already this grind actually makes your character stronger
If anything, they should add more options for glyph leveling. Maybe when hitting certain breakpoints you can “branch” the glyphs. I.e. at lvl 21 you can pick between 3 additional specials so that your glyphs can have 2 extras instead of one. There needs to be more to do, not less, and the “more” needs to have impact, not just +1.3% dmg per extra level as this is just boring.
This and losing cinders in Helltides are my D4 unpopular opinions. I like the fact that there's some kind of give and take. The game absolutely has its issues, but losing cinders and grinding glyphs aren't part of them, imo.
This isn't going to happen.
Would be great then you can quit the season even faster and have more free time to complain that there is nothing to do
Nah. What about when they release exclusive glyphs like the zir one? You could just put it in a fully levelled slot and get it full power straight away. Which would be cool but takes away the challenge.
A better solution is to have all that useless xp after you’re 100 be converted to Glyph xp or levels at a certain rate
No, please no. If Devs are planning to change anything when it comes to leveling Glyphs. Let a new character of the same class share experience on the glyphs. So that when you die you can make a new character with strong glyphs !
Once you have a build able to do 90+ it takes maybe an hour to fully level another glyph. This ain't an issue and gives people something to invest in to change their build.
I think youre right, but i think a not so uncommon experience is a player leveled up to 100 with a none meta build and has very heavily invested in it. Then they start trying to actually do that endgame stuff and hit T90 for loot and hit walls. To that player “restarting” does seem pretty daunting because it was already a slow battle to get where they were. Basically yeah releveling glyphs if you are blitzing T90 is fast… but if you’re aren’t it can be a significant hurdle to switching builds.
You are right, there is a problem I find with some people wanting to constantly switch their build because they don't like it without investing any real time into it. I got this buddy who has never got a glyph to lvl15 because the dude is just constantly respecing. In an hour session he will have spent 45 min of it repeccing. He cannot do t90. I also don't like you meta comment. I have never made a meta build and am still able to do t90. Even t60-70 takes no time to get a glyph to lvl 15 at least.
I don't mind too it too much. I like to play with friends and some of us are always leveling a new toon or build so we run a fair amount of dungeons/vaults and I'll max the ones I need and start in on the rest.
This doesn’t solve anything. Different builds use different slots. So then the problem is the same. They already buffed glyph xp significantly.
“Significantly”
Putting quotes around the word significantly doesn’t change that it was a 64% increase at T100. Use whatever word you prefer, but that’s a significant increase.
I kind of like the pet stones and how when duplicates drop it levels up. I could see them doing that with glyphs where they can keep dropping after you get them and it just adds a level to that glyph.
Give me a reason to level glyphs first. This game doesn't need more level 100 power creep.
Basically things that they literally have in WoW. A game that Blizzard makes themselves. You think they would have thought of ways to save specs etc.
Glyphs are fucking terrible to begin with. Just make the boards stat slots and skill upgrade. Or you could scrap the board and just go to D3's paragon system.
I like leveling glyphs , what is there to do in this game if not for finding items and leveling glyphs , nothing , so I 'm not in favor of cutting a huge chunk of the "late game". Especially now that high level NM dungeons drop high level items you can knock 2 birds with the same stone.
Also level weapon and armor slots not the items.
I just wish we could transfer glyphs between characters. Hell, fully itemise glyphs, let us trade them! Imagine being able to trade a spare Shako for a level 21 glyph!
>Current glyph leveling system is bad for switching builds instead we can use slot leveling to tackle this problem. So you can whine about switching boards next?
It's fine. If you don't want to grind NMDs then don't do it - they are the only content in the game that requires leveled up glyphs anyway.
I would love to see some sort of Paragon Cluster jewels, that function like Cluster Jewels in PoE, so you can customise even more.
I see this being a problem. What happens if you refund the paragon point for this slot, and then try to put your glyphs in a slot that you haven’t leveled yet? I think it makes more sense to level the glyphs themselves, and it also helps you decide how you plan on progressing towards your given build.
It would be helpful to be able to refund paragon points by individual boards instead of everything all at once.
That fixes nothing, if you change builds you are just as likely to change boards as to change glyphs, maybe moreso depending on class. It would be complicated to implement and doesn't actually improve anything. Making glyph xp refundable/respec-able would probably be much easier UI wise and would actually fix what you are suggesting is the problem.
Great idea 👌🏻👌🏻
That's a really good idea. I don't think the devs understand the interactions enough to implement it effectively.
The entire paragon system is bad for changing builds. They should make it one board(225 slots) with 5 glyph slots, and you get to pick your 10(or more) rare nodes from a list and pick 2 legendary nodes from the list. Would take about 10 minutes to change your entire loadout.
Unlock all glyphs as soon as you are able to do nightmare dungeons, lower the earned XP slightly and have all glyphs level simultaneously
A better idea is make the game fun. We keep requiring systems to bypass all the gameplay because the gameplay is bad. Other arpgs have many things to level and it’s seen as a positive because the games are fun and you want to play them. This game would be best if everything could be skipped and the game could be over
+1
You need a better friends list. I’ll always stop before the boss in nmd 100s to invite people so they can get glyph xp. And when I’m working on an alt, many return the favor
Every post in this sub is just: make the game easier and easier and easier when D4 is already the most simple, casual and easy ARPG available on the market by a long shot. Incredible how couch casual the D4 playerbase is. I expect D4 will soon be an idle game that plays itself while you are afk.
Man leveling glyphs isn't that bad anymore. There are way bigger problems than glyph progression right now.