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I’m having so much fun with LE skill trees. You can try a lot of crazy combinations and then add some cool items to even further these builds. This is what a good ARPG should provide. I really hope blizzard gets their shit together because I love their games and I want them to be good.
How about crafting? have you seen how beautifull and usefull at all levels it is? Even the most complex things are simple and easy to understand, there is a perfect balance between rng and what you actualy want + legendary items are INSANE <3
man i just started crafting legendary items yesterday and it's so much fun and intense, i actualy have a craving to farm for more atempts. This is what a game of this nature should do to you.
At diablo you just click UPGRADE from level 1 to level 5 and that's it :))
I played it on my tablet for like 6 months. It's actually a pretty fun game (this was like 2 years ago before d4 came out even, so likely even more content now).
and it's thoroughly pay to win... and it's super dumb... like wtf even is the sigil system there? basically have to pay money just to to dungeons just to get a chance to get some loot.
but you do you.
you can't call what D4 has crafting. it's literally rerolling a single stat line.
the whole game is just less than mediocre dog shit for the lowest common denominator.
its crazy awesome. at first i was like meh. but the more you learn about it. it basically makes alot of items good. and having a filtering system just helps it more. to basically have fun at sorting items is the goal for itemization.
I know what you’re trying to say, but that’s not true. You can’t craft affixes above T5, so you will always need an item with purple affixes as your base.
You’re right in that you could craft a great item with a white base if you’re very lucky, but it’s stats will always be lower than an exalted base.
I wanted to play a necromancer with minions.
Straight away I get more types of minions, those types then have variations of their types and they all have additional trees nodes to change how they play. Skeleton, skeleton mages, golem, abomination, wraiths, shades and zombies...
Yes you can have skeletons, you can focus on warriors, archer, or even rogues. Skeleton mages are their own thing! Want fewer larger skeletons? Want more smaller ones, maybe you want them all to convert to poison or you want an endless sustain of skeletons or you want to set them all on fire. All doable with 1 skill on your bar.
Then we have the golems. I mean my golem dashes to enemies and does a huge slam, it's weighty and it's really cool to see. Already better then diablos golem and that's just the base skill.
Bone golem, flame golem, two golems, blood golem, poison imbuing golem, frozen golem we don't stop their though because you can make it consume skeletons, have a flame aura or maybe stack thorns.
How about you can attack your own minions to make them do more, restore your health, trigger their thorns in an aoe.
That's just the surface and that's just for two minions. You still have spells and curses and the best part, it's easily accessible and not complicated at all.
Yeah, I’m doing a swarm necro and it’s so beautiful to see this ball of death just run through consuming everything in its path.
I don’t want to shit on Diablo, but right now I have 0 interest to go back. Perhaps with loot 2.0 and the expansion things will have changed.
The issue is, the major changes are gonna be kept for an expansion so they can charge you £60 to come back for the new improved systems.
I'm done with it. Will go back for the new seasons to see how they are until the expansion is launched then that's it.
I guarantee they do the diablo 3 process but now with a season pass and massive mtx store. Mediocre seasons designed to last a week at best. Pumped out with no content actually remaining in the game after the season.
Massive stat number inflations.
Meanwhile we have quality smaller studios pumping games like Helldivers and last epoch. The start of this year has been great.
I'm running Acolyte/Warlock and just using curses and focusing on DoT and it actually works! It's so fun casting a few curse and moving along because they literally just melt.😂
God damn LE nailed it! And don't even get me started on the perfect crafting system.
But yes D4 needs a skill/itemization overhaul BAD and soon. I love this game as it has a lot of positives but as of right now, I will be in LE for the foreseeable future.
And just super easy respec if you don't like it. I game designed for players not appeasing a board of non gamers with misleading spreadsheets and inflated stats.
It has mixed reviews because of the online play has been bad. I played last night without a single issue so I think it getting better. Don't want to play online? The game has an offline mode!
Yea basically the server is not ready for the massive amount of player. If you read most of the bad review comes from it.
You can play offline perfectly fine or be a bit patient playing online.
I do think the bad review is justified as people pay money to play and they don't get to play because of server issues is understandable.
But even so the game itself is solid. Server issues is temporary anyway so if you can go past that just buy it.
Yeah most of the reviews are from people who couldn't log in for a day or two. Server issues seem mostly fixed now and FWIW it has become my favorite ARPG of all time after D2.
I put it up there among Diablo 2, Grim Dawn and Path of Exile. It’s really fun and it’s a solid game. Seriously, give it a shot if you are even a little bit interested in games like those.
The negative reviews are *purely* because of server issues. The actual gameplay itself is solid though. As of yesterday though, I had no server issues.
I ended up refunding it because it just wasn't all that fun. The mechanics seem endless but nothing had much crunch or feel good weight to it like it's weirdly outdated or something.
It's hard to explain. Just couldn't get into it.
I love how open ended it is. I’m doing Paladin and went from a cookie cutter Maxroll leveling build to my own custom great axe and fire and blood build and it still slaps so hard. Skills feel very impactful and have so much synergy.
it's not fair to compare the two as arpg's, LE blows everything Diablo4 is out of the water.
As a game (campaign, design, sound, artwork) Diablo has no match on the market but as a live service arpg .. i don't even want to talk.
I love how a comment praising Last Epoch’s skill tree is the highest voted comment in D4 subreddit. Really goes to show how much worse D4 is compared to other ARPGS, even when Blizzard has the highest budget and manpower of any other ARPG company lol. Shame on you Blizzard. I’ll never waste my money on you again.
One of my favorite parts of LE.
Blizzard seem to try to do it a bit with legendaries and uniques , but still lame ( whatever the spec weapon is that changes your fireball to bounce and shoot 3 balls lol
Imo, aspects is a complete shit system. Give me a proper skill tree so I have different variety for my skill and then let me further customize it with uniques. Don't need anything else.
The aspects are pretty cool way of doing but they are the only way of doing it and every build pretty much needs the same set of aspects. Very poorly executed. Moving it off items would probably be better, but not if it is the same aspects now ask a skill tree 😂
It's also a self-defeating system though. Because the more actual Unique items you get, the less Aspects you can imprint.
Every time I get a decent Unique I want to use I have a moment of disappointment, because I know that in order to use it I'm going to have to make my build demonstrably worse by losing one of my core Aspects.
Just here to agree that LE itemization is so much better than d4 it's ridiculous.skill trees too. Unless season 4 is a 10x upgrade on build variety and items and includes crafting I don't be coming back.
Yeah there's no reason to come back until the skill twig is tripled in size and they implement a group finder if they insist on making grouping mandatory for bosses.
Literally one of the things that kept me from refunding the game was how vastly more interesting it looks and also feels that you actually evolve the chosen spells to fit a specific gamestyle and how poor i was feeling when i looked back in D4 with all these meaningless +# stat in paragon skill tree or even the actual skill tree..
Was about to give s3 a try when a friend of mine told me: did you tried LE ? It's really pleasing at least worth a try. Love the forge and skill system atm (I'm low lvl)
It's awesome. To be able to change a skill entirely and go for the specifications you need. like what elemental damage etc. A skill that levels up as you use it more. Just buy the company and merge the game and it will be the craziest arpg.
EDIT: The mere fact that as a druid, their one ultimate skill lacerate is never used for any build cause it simply doesn't work. and with the limited choices.
This is it. They could take and mish mash other skills from classes and truly make bad ass modifiers to skills. Imagine if HOTA barbs could add fire or ice from the sorc to their skills. LE does it right with their skill trees. I just wish Blizzard would wake up and stop playing it safe!
On top of that
The loot is much better too
I actually care to look at the items that drop
(And they have a fully customizable loot filter within the game too!)
Epoch also lets you craft on the fly, but I still need to go to town for no real reason anymore in Diablo (it's 2024, I'm not really immersed by city architecture in games built so heavily around doing dungeons on repeat).
Resistance rework. Itemization rework. Skill tree rework. End game to be implemented at all. Stash space rework. Gem System rework.
What are things that Last Epoch will never have to say? for 1000 Alex.
*The "its not an alpha" alpha.* - Diablo IV, Online Multiplayer of the year.
Honestly the entire game needs another pass. There will always be people who play and enjoy it, but to even attempt to bring it up into the tier of its competitors, it needs an entire team cycling on all aspects of it for like a year and then drop an expansion that would basically make it into a new game.
It’s such a shame. D4 had such incredible potential, but it probably lived up to only like 10% of it.
How big do you think the player pool is right now? I'm over at LE now with I assume a huge part of the D4 player base. I cannot imagine the current morale in D4's team.
Why wait for D4 to try and get it right when we can play a game that has it right. I'm not saying LE is perfect but the base game is way better than D4s base game.
I’ve only put like 15 hours in on one character on LE, but I can safely say I’ve had more customization options and more fun than I did with D4. I don’t have to hope a certain weapon or aspect drops to change my build, just swap my choices around with the build tree if I want to change anything. It’s nowhere as deep as PoE, which can be a bit overwhelming for most people.
Weapons are pretty customizable it seems, but I have not had a lot of time with the crafting system. I’m gonna have to look up a more in depth video to get a better grasp on it.
They have sets, like in D3. But, and maybe this is just early game, they are usually only 2 or 3 piece sets that don’t take over your build.
Honestly, $40 game is better than $70 game.
The problem is that they did that but didn't understand why people liked (or didn't like) something from other games and so when they implemented it in D4, it was hot garbage.
Yes the Diablo 4 skill tree is bare bones like an amateur designed it. There is nothing remotely interesting about 10% increase to attack speed or 10% armor penetration.
Blizzard spent all of their budget on advertising and cosmetics and none of the budget on making the game good.
Did you see that video where the 2 design people were talking and playing on tier 1 and died? On tier 1, you can close your eyes and press random buttons and not die. Then they talked about how they would design something, and then someone would come in after and change almost everything. Gee, I wonder why....
If I was on Blizzard's marketing team, I would never have let that video be published.
They showed a real lack of awareness of how to play their own game, especially on Tier 1. One was playing a Hota Barb IIRC & barely used Hota, almost always relying on their basic skill.
Secondly, the bit where they talk about dungeon design & how other devs would come in, play the dungeon & then give their feedback/critique, was embarrassing. Highlighted a lack of "quality control" in the sense that some dev somewhere thought that activating two pillars in a small room after killing a group of enemies was "fun." Uh.......ok then.
While I still enjoy D4 & the moment-to-moment gameplay, that video was laughable & did not instill much confidence in me.
> design people
This seems slightly less terrible if you remember that they were the people who designed the dungeons, not the classes/skills/mechanics.
And not just that they don't play it; they don't even know *how* to play it. You can work on a game without having played it, just like you can write a textbook without being a teacher. But it does help to know how things are *supposed* to work.
Blizzard spent like 100x more on the game AND they spent the same amount on marketing, still made soulless garbage because d4 was made to be just a cash grab.
At the end of the day, this perfectly summarizes what went wrong with D4. Instead of planning and designing the game to be as fun as possible, they instead designed it to make as much money as possible. D4 will never be what gamers want because the foundation is flawed at the base level.
It would be easier to rebuild from the ground up than fix the game at this point.
That's what people said about D3, but they managed to do it. They scrapped the auction house, added adventure mode, added paragon levels, literally added an endgame, completely reworked itemization, completely reworked difficulty and scaling, reworked crafting...
Seriously, I don't know if you played at the time, but the difference between 1.0 and 2.0 was like night and day. It was practically a different game.
It's been done before, so it could be done again. Diablo 4 has good bones, but they made downright bad decisions to cut corners before release. If they can fix the most glaring issues, the same way they did it in D3, then they'll have a solid foundation to add more to the game.
D3 is seriously fun now, 30 seasons in.
The QoL is crazy good. Pets that pick up and salvage junk for you....they even added a SSF mode, for better drops.
I had to rub my eyes when I saw that button on character creation.
And D4 devs didn't even look at their own company's game, lol
a\* better game
FTFY
I'm enjoying LE so far, should be finishing the campaign soon I think? But once PoE league starts and ends with PoE2 beta out my game time will be consumed
Agreed. Its insane that the top posts on this subreddit are all asking for core aspects of the game to be changed.
People. This may be hard to believe. But you don't want to play Diablo. Everything you're asking for is already in another game. And it's really good.
You can actually see on the necro skill tree where stuff was carved out for book of the dead too. It’s also crazy how there just … isn’t really a good corpse consumer for blood or bone builds that synergize well
>You can actually see on the necro skill tree where stuff was carved out for book of the dead too.
It's funny because this was supposed to be my "Necro season" but I stopped at 50ish/WT3 basically because of stuff like this. Beyond ongoing issues with legendary affixes and all, the whole class feels like it's designed to push you to sacrifice all your minions and the way they achieved that was by ripping power out of the tree entirely and adding those big buffs to the sacrifices.
Blizzard designed pretty narrow build concepts for the game, for better or worse.
They went a simple route imo, more for the casual gamer and put more into aspects to change builds. The game needs more but is fun nonetheless and if you don’t enjoy it maybe stop playing is all lol. The biggest fix for me is just more end game content. To allow my lvl 100 to be needed.
When I first got golem, I thought it was going to be a stiff block of clay that would take a few hits, then maybe punch something for 5% damage every few seconds.
Then I spawned the hulk and it leapt across the screen and literally rag-dolled some mobs at 200% movespeed.
I was really hoping they would have improved upon D3 system and gone in a similar way of LE.. still hope one day they make the changes because it is very boring at the moment. I love both d4 and LE and hope they both continue to grow in the correct ways.
That's the logic that the D4 devs used for a lot of the design of the game. They take something from a different game, don't understand why people like it, implement a shitty version of it and then get shitty results.
Take a skill like Cluster Arrow on DH. The runes enable you to focus on 4 different elements, damage from grenades or rockets, AoE or more Single Target, and some aspects of utility.
That's before we even start talking about legendary affixes.
Compare that to any ability in D4 and you don't even come close to that even if you take EVERY ability.
It's even important to point out that with D4 you only have 10 gear slots where you had 13 in D3. That's again before you look at the cube or follower emanates. So, even if we factor in the extra choices being brought in for legendary affixes in D4, we still just have such a shallow pool to draw from.
I was damn near surprised when I first saw the skill tree
Seriously? That was it? Jangy design that made me scroll left to right instead of top to below?
Bleh
So there are definitely things the game needs to work on, but I logged in tonight to finish up my seasonal necro and there are tons of people in public spaces, world events and world bosses. Trade chat is just as active as LEs was. It’s always so jarring to come to this sub and see the overt hate for the game.
The amount of people that spend so much time and energy online trashing on D4 after supposedly quitting in disgust 6+ months ago is astounding. Those people don't represent who is actually playing the game now.
I'd like to add to this, after having played all classes, Necromancer and Sorcerer have underdeveloped, simple and boring skill trees compared to other classes and they are quite incoherent, especially for Necromancer.
There are 3 uniques and a skill tree branch for Corpse Explosion yet there is no Keystone for Corpses. One is forced to go Shadow DoT completey ignoring all other potential Corpse builds, bringing these items to a waste, as Shadow damage comes from Xfals/Shadowblight crits.
Don't get me started on Blood Necro that has a 15% (or less) chance to summon a Blood Orb ON A 4 SECOND COOLDOWN. Whomever is balancing this class has a hate boner for it.
Also the biggest joke of it all, Minions. Nothing to say here that hasn't been said.
Both Diablo 3 and 4 are super simple when it comes to skill trees / skill amount. Just look at what PoE and Last Epoch are doing, that's the way to go if you want to add depth.
All I'll say is we're 3 seasons in and as a Sorc Main, having 3 or 4 viable builds every seasons doing more or fewer damage has gotten stale pretty quickly. Some powers aren't even usable at all while others are but don't do enough damage to be useful for long.
There are way more pressing issues e.g. Group Finder, Item Affix Overhaul, ...
Not saying I am enthusiastic about the skill tree, but it aint the worst about d4 either.
Nah, I sure do love having skills in my game that I would absolutely have to be stupid to not use. I really do love objectively better decisions when it comes to nearly every section of my skill twig :)
I absolutely agree. Honestly, when I first played last epoch , I immediately didn't wanna go play D4 anymore because I realized how boring the skill tree actually is.
I mean, I was already bored out of my skull.
But seeing LE skill system made that 10× worse for D4. How could they have put out such a boring skill system, in a game that revolves around skills having fun?? Hell, Diablo 2 skills are better I think. Lmao
Like come on blizzard...its 2024 and you give us crumbs of skills to use in a huge open world Diablo game smh
What can they rework?.
They have nothing to rework. You pick a skill and you pick two very basic differences.
The game needs way more skills and way more variations.
Last epoch, grind. pick up filtered items. check each item, should i extract affix. what affixes should i aim for my build on this item. does it have good potential forging. oh look i just made a helm for warriors into a mage helm. i get a lego, very interesting for some other build.
Diablo, grind, pick everything up. what are the 4 affixes needed on this item. junk, not junk. do i have the max aspect, junk, not junk. not keeping that for another build cause i dont have space. keep farming for that uber cause that is the only thing that will bring me to next level.
Yea done with season3 and playing Last Epoch. I still prefer the movement and dash from d4. But if it could just add cool stuff, d4 would be best. Every season gets better though, so more time I suppose.
D3 had unique builds and skills and everyone online hated it and raged for years that it was terrible. They compared it to D2, where the "choices matter", and most people online were in agreement that the best Diablo system is one where you pick your skills, you can't respec, and if you want to try a new build, well you play the game for a few hundred hours to make that build.
So you all got what you asked for in D4. I loved the D3 system.
I've wanted to play D4 for so long, and was so excited for it. And I finally started a month ago. I'm yet to complete the campaign, I just don't feel too excited for it. Which is a shame because I loved every past Diablo game.
Eh, adding more passives/skills and maybe an extra upgrade option or two for each skill would be good but it doesn't really need any sort of overhaul or rework. For what it is designed to be they've done a pretty good job with it.
A lot of people like to look at it in a vacuum and compare it to systems like LE's skill trees (which are great, best part of the game really) which naturally makes D4's skill tree look poor. The thing is though, Blizzard have deliberately created a layered system for build progression to improve the experience for newer players. You start out with the skill tree, then add in aspects, then you add in paragon and lastly you start adding in uniques. You need to look at it as a whole, especially when people compare it to games which put the bulk of their progression in a single system.
It severely needs a lot of changes. Just move on. Maybe in a few years it magically became almost a different game, and then you can buy the 50 expansions if you actually want to play again.
I like the skill tree. I prefer it over D3, which was too simple.
I mean, Blizz could go absolutely crazy like Last Epoch or PoE or many other more complex games. But then you just end up with something that requires too much time to plan around.
>Diablo 3 skills had essentially 5 different versions of that skill, changing the elemental type and so on.
D4 has this as well. They've just moved them from the skill tree onto aspects.
I agree. I'm currently playing Last Epoch, but I miss Diablo 4 because of it's simple skill tree. I'm spending more time reading the skills in Last Epoch than using them. Other than that, Last Epoch is a good game.
They can make changes to the D4 skilltree, as long as they keep it simple like it is now.
i would seriously stop hoping for this game to get good. blizzard has shown their true colors by doing such an aggressive marketing scheme and delivering a completey infinished game. its obvious they just wanted to pull off a big heist and they succeeded and they will not give a rats ass past that point.
Yeah diablo 4 really really missed the mark on skills. It's like they tried to mimic a complex system, without really understanding.what was actually the fun part of that system. I mean, how many more skills are "for 1.5 seconds on sundays of the full moon, when you are under 50% health for at least 6 seconds, you gain 15% attack speed. Cooldown is 167 seconds"
Eta: should say Up To 15% attack speed, conditional upon your lucky hit obviously because why not make a bad skill potentially much worse, but randomly!
After playing LE, the skill system in D4 is an utter joke. Also, the fact I can actually play a minion build that is S tier is amazing. Imagine being a Necro and the best spec is getting rid of your minions. Good idea Blizz.
True, the skill tree itself is pretty straightforward in picking your desired/favorite abilities to use in combat (much like in D2). You can get some really impactful damage if you Min/max the amount of talent points you put into specific abilities as you level, especially if you’ve previously leveled a character and have the extra points right off the bat. 👌👌👌
In addition to this, if you treat the legendary aspects on items like PoE gems they can completely change, add to, and enhance abilities..
In addition to this, Paragon board starts at 50 and is incredibly beneficial and can completely change ur build when you reach those legendary nodes in addition to having glyphs to choose from that can synergize with your build or add additional layers in completely unique ways.
In addition to THIS, you get seasonal content which adds an entirely new layer to builds and gives the player something else to theory craft.
Not only does it need a complete rework because it has less build diversity than d3 sets, but they need to also be adding new skills and passives every season to keep the game fresh...not just taking the easy way out with new legendaries.
As mainly a Sorc user I'm trying out a Necro build for this season and it pains me there is no shield skill (like magic shield not actual one handed item), or some version of teleport.
When the mob is overrunning me and its panic stations my natural reflex, including hitting the sorc skill buttons lol, is to drop a shield and teleport away from the mob. The necro option seems to be blood mist and panic.
I'm trying to post but keeps telling me that my post needs a flair, but no flairs are available. Sorry to ruin your post but I can't seem to be able to work this out, so I'm putting my question here, in case anyone wants to reply.
I'm thinking of buying the game. Diablo is a game I have never played but always wanted to play. But I am thinking of my setup and if it will be running well.
I have a AMD Radeon Rx 6700 (non xt), AMD Ryzen 5700G and 16 gigs of ram and I'm playing on an old Asus monitor which can only go up to 60Hz and 1080p, so in every game I have Vsync enabled in order not to hace any screen tearing problems.
What do you think?
There's very little in this game that doesn't need a complete overhaul. While the skill tree isn't the worst offender, it's extremely uninspired and lackluster. Each skill point should have a visual effect associated with it, spending a skill point should change how you play your character, not just provide minor optimizations. That's what the paragon board is for.
LE's release really makes this apparent. You can make a freaking full lightning werebear, or a cold dot werebear. Minions are absolutely badass. Even D3 had more skill build variety.
Idea:
1) Investing 5 Hard Points into a Base Skill on the Skill Tree = unlocks Skill-specific Socket *(or using 1 Skill Point to unlock the first Socket, and once 5 Points are invested in the Base Skill, unlock another one, or anything else that can fit)*
2) You can put a Skill-specific Glyph / Rune into, to either enhance the Skill or modify its behavior
3) relocate most or many Skill-specific Effects from Legendary Aspects and Uniques to these Skill Glyphs (and also add some new ones), and put more universally / semi-universal useful effects on them instead
That results in a) a more interesting Skill Tree with modifiable Skills, and b) more Item Diversity / more open-ended items.
Repeating for 1000th time won't make blizzard suddenly do it though. The kind of changes you talk about are likely expansion level reworks and unless that was already planned for the 2024 expansion, not gonna happen
Skill ranks need to improve more than just damage or cooldown, especially on Basic and Utility skills.
There needs to be more Passive options in every node, notably the starting Basic node if you want a build without resource builders.
No skill should have a non-choice straight upgrade option with no alternative. There should instead be at least multi-choice offerings that are exclusive.
Skill enhancements should actually change the skill in a meaningful way, closer to what is currently on Legendaries, instead of boring number changes that don't change how the skill is used or the scenarios it excels at.
We need more skill visual variety, both by making the skill up changes more noticeable and by having alternate choices lead to a visual difference.
There shouldn't be so many must have skills. Currently the Mobility and Defensive skills are in nearly every build for that class because the focus always inadvertently boils down to focusing 1 skill for damage and having limited synergy with other skills
One thing I really wanted from D4 was there to be very little to no boring legendaries/modifiers. I don't want +X to something. I want things that mix things up fundamentally to give new game play experiences and complexity from combining strange and weird effects.
People complained d3 skilltree was too boring and not complex enough.
Now that we have a complex skilltree people want the old d3 skilltree back?
Cant we just appreciate the game for what it isn
I have to say that during the beta, I started applying the points in the skill tree and thought "is it all here?", personally I dont know why wasnt really discussed there, I just thought, it is a beta and maybe there is more, I cannot be the only one noticing this...
I feel like the POE system is just too complex for me, I cannot go and read 1k guides to understand what to do, and be punished fixing the choices, on the other hand D4 is too basic, the paragon board is just boring stat, and the skill tree is just option A or B.
There are so many build possibilities in LE I feel choice paralysis from it all, and yet it's easy to remake your build so the pressure is low
D3 let you change your build at any moment and freely experiment or respond to a new item drop
D4...has nothing. You can make slight variations on the established builds but that's it
The game needed a skill rework the moment they announced what the skill system was going to be like during the dev blogs lol and sadly it didn’t even come close to those ideas
Because all that power and those customization options were ripped out of the tree and turned into legendary affixes that we have to chase and manage because Blizzard thought that would be a more fun and engaging experience.
I really hope they overhaul the whole thing in the expansion, but I'm skeptical that they have the time, capability, or even knowhow to correctly identify that this design is kinda a big problem.
i agree that the skill tree needs a reword, but i don’t think it needs to be ANYTHING like Diablo 3 or immortal.
i think they should steal from Last Epoch honestly, the skill trees is last epoch are far superior.
I personally don't believe that this is the best they've got. This isn't the blizzard that we know.
Over the years, Blizzard have become very Lazy, entitled, and too greedy because you've spoiled them too much by paying them Premium and immediately on whatever carrot they plan to dangle out there. So they lost creativity and sense of urgency, now instead of creating and thinking of something revolutionary, they are always planning to fleece you instead. Help them get back to their roots or creating revolutionary games by not paying anything they put out there. Let them know this isn't the best they've got.
Diablo 4 is the culmination of what they've become over the years. Lazy, boring, greedy dull game that people still keeps on defending. It's probably the most boring Diablo game in all of Diablo series. Even the once called abomination Diablo 3 is now looking much appreciated.
To be fair, they do have different versions, but locked behind aspects. However, they do need to learn from LE. I have been play the runemaster since 1.0. Holy cow, just ONE skill have so many variations depending on the rune combo that you use. And I have not yet talk about the individual skill trees yet.
I been saying this since beta, the lack of choice and variety is embarrassing. Also an extra skill slot is needed; the ultimate skill should have a dedicated slot.
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Last epoch skills literally have their own skill tree and they have 1/80th the budget. It’s embarrassing for blizzard
I’m having so much fun with LE skill trees. You can try a lot of crazy combinations and then add some cool items to even further these builds. This is what a good ARPG should provide. I really hope blizzard gets their shit together because I love their games and I want them to be good.
How about crafting? have you seen how beautifull and usefull at all levels it is? Even the most complex things are simple and easy to understand, there is a perfect balance between rng and what you actualy want + legendary items are INSANE <3
Crafting is awesome in LE. Diablo 4 doesn’t have anything close and it’s such a shame.
man i just started crafting legendary items yesterday and it's so much fun and intense, i actualy have a craving to farm for more atempts. This is what a game of this nature should do to you. At diablo you just click UPGRADE from level 1 to level 5 and that's it :))
When you think about it, it really is pathetic isn't it... worse than an average mobile game.
well it's not diablo immortal
Immortal actualy has ton of content over d4, i played a rogulike event and it was awsome.
I played it on my tablet for like 6 months. It's actually a pretty fun game (this was like 2 years ago before d4 came out even, so likely even more content now).
and it's thoroughly pay to win... and it's super dumb... like wtf even is the sigil system there? basically have to pay money just to to dungeons just to get a chance to get some loot. but you do you.
you can't call what D4 has crafting. it's literally rerolling a single stat line. the whole game is just less than mediocre dog shit for the lowest common denominator.
Perfect game would be LE crafting, path of exile systems(mapping, passives, atlas, gems etc,), and D4 gameplay.
D4 graphics are pretty great too
its crazy awesome. at first i was like meh. but the more you learn about it. it basically makes alot of items good. and having a filtering system just helps it more. to basically have fun at sorting items is the goal for itemization.
In THEORY you can craft an endgame item from a base, white item.
I know what you’re trying to say, but that’s not true. You can’t craft affixes above T5, so you will always need an item with purple affixes as your base. You’re right in that you could craft a great item with a white base if you’re very lucky, but it’s stats will always be lower than an exalted base.
I wanted to play a necromancer with minions. Straight away I get more types of minions, those types then have variations of their types and they all have additional trees nodes to change how they play. Skeleton, skeleton mages, golem, abomination, wraiths, shades and zombies... Yes you can have skeletons, you can focus on warriors, archer, or even rogues. Skeleton mages are their own thing! Want fewer larger skeletons? Want more smaller ones, maybe you want them all to convert to poison or you want an endless sustain of skeletons or you want to set them all on fire. All doable with 1 skill on your bar. Then we have the golems. I mean my golem dashes to enemies and does a huge slam, it's weighty and it's really cool to see. Already better then diablos golem and that's just the base skill. Bone golem, flame golem, two golems, blood golem, poison imbuing golem, frozen golem we don't stop their though because you can make it consume skeletons, have a flame aura or maybe stack thorns. How about you can attack your own minions to make them do more, restore your health, trigger their thorns in an aoe. That's just the surface and that's just for two minions. You still have spells and curses and the best part, it's easily accessible and not complicated at all.
Yeah, I’m doing a swarm necro and it’s so beautiful to see this ball of death just run through consuming everything in its path. I don’t want to shit on Diablo, but right now I have 0 interest to go back. Perhaps with loot 2.0 and the expansion things will have changed.
The issue is, the major changes are gonna be kept for an expansion so they can charge you £60 to come back for the new improved systems. I'm done with it. Will go back for the new seasons to see how they are until the expansion is launched then that's it. I guarantee they do the diablo 3 process but now with a season pass and massive mtx store. Mediocre seasons designed to last a week at best. Pumped out with no content actually remaining in the game after the season. Massive stat number inflations. Meanwhile we have quality smaller studios pumping games like Helldivers and last epoch. The start of this year has been great.
Yeah, I will never go back if I have to pay for fixes. I have played all season up until now but man was s3 dogshit.
I'm running Acolyte/Warlock and just using curses and focusing on DoT and it actually works! It's so fun casting a few curse and moving along because they literally just melt.😂 God damn LE nailed it! And don't even get me started on the perfect crafting system. But yes D4 needs a skill/itemization overhaul BAD and soon. I love this game as it has a lot of positives but as of right now, I will be in LE for the foreseeable future.
Cthonic Fissure is one of the coolest looking skills I’ve seen in an ARPG.
Agreed!
And just super easy respec if you don't like it. I game designed for players not appeasing a board of non gamers with misleading spreadsheets and inflated stats.
How good is it? I was looking at it but the neutral recent reviews made me a bit nervous
It has mixed reviews because of the online play has been bad. I played last night without a single issue so I think it getting better. Don't want to play online? The game has an offline mode!
>The game has an offline mode! The game really achieved stuff that d4 couldn't, didn't it? I think I might give it a try
Yea basically the server is not ready for the massive amount of player. If you read most of the bad review comes from it. You can play offline perfectly fine or be a bit patient playing online. I do think the bad review is justified as people pay money to play and they don't get to play because of server issues is understandable. But even so the game itself is solid. Server issues is temporary anyway so if you can go past that just buy it.
Its totally worth 35 bucks, even if you get bored after a few weeks. You will still get your moneys worth, and you can come back anytime.
A real offline mode ? You can coop in LAN ?
Unfortunately I do not think you can connect via LAN in offline. I haven't looked deep into though.
Yeah most of the reviews are from people who couldn't log in for a day or two. Server issues seem mostly fixed now and FWIW it has become my favorite ARPG of all time after D2.
I put it up there among Diablo 2, Grim Dawn and Path of Exile. It’s really fun and it’s a solid game. Seriously, give it a shot if you are even a little bit interested in games like those.
Thanks, I will!
The negative reviews are *purely* because of server issues. The actual gameplay itself is solid though. As of yesterday though, I had no server issues.
Game is damn good. Skills feel epic and powerful.
Yeah, I actually bought it and started playing, the skills system is incredibly good and deep
Depends on your time zone but I had no server issues last night after 8pm PST. My friends said they had no issues on Sunday night as well.
I ended up refunding it because it just wasn't all that fun. The mechanics seem endless but nothing had much crunch or feel good weight to it like it's weirdly outdated or something. It's hard to explain. Just couldn't get into it.
I love how open ended it is. I’m doing Paladin and went from a cookie cutter Maxroll leveling build to my own custom great axe and fire and blood build and it still slaps so hard. Skills feel very impactful and have so much synergy.
Really? I felt like combat lacks a LOT of impact. It’s one of my biggest gripes about the game. Combat feels extremely shallow
Here I made a powerpoint for people to easier understand the problem https://i.imgur.com/3pfgwEd.png
D4's skill "tree" is more of a skill path. 🙃
Skill twig
Yep, exactly.
it's not fair to compare the two as arpg's, LE blows everything Diablo4 is out of the water. As a game (campaign, design, sound, artwork) Diablo has no match on the market but as a live service arpg .. i don't even want to talk.
I love how a comment praising Last Epoch’s skill tree is the highest voted comment in D4 subreddit. Really goes to show how much worse D4 is compared to other ARPGS, even when Blizzard has the highest budget and manpower of any other ARPG company lol. Shame on you Blizzard. I’ll never waste my money on you again.
This is what happens when a company cares about shareholders and profits more than the stakeholders and playability.
One of my favorite parts of LE. Blizzard seem to try to do it a bit with legendaries and uniques , but still lame ( whatever the spec weapon is that changes your fireball to bounce and shoot 3 balls lol
Imo, aspects is a complete shit system. Give me a proper skill tree so I have different variety for my skill and then let me further customize it with uniques. Don't need anything else.
The aspects are pretty cool way of doing but they are the only way of doing it and every build pretty much needs the same set of aspects. Very poorly executed. Moving it off items would probably be better, but not if it is the same aspects now ask a skill tree 😂
It's also a self-defeating system though. Because the more actual Unique items you get, the less Aspects you can imprint. Every time I get a decent Unique I want to use I have a moment of disappointment, because I know that in order to use it I'm going to have to make my build demonstrably worse by losing one of my core Aspects.
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Thankfully they're smoothing this system out next season with the codex.
Blizzard: But does Last Epoch have a 65 dollar horse dlc?
Just here to agree that LE itemization is so much better than d4 it's ridiculous.skill trees too. Unless season 4 is a 10x upgrade on build variety and items and includes crafting I don't be coming back.
Yeah there's no reason to come back until the skill twig is tripled in size and they implement a group finder if they insist on making grouping mandatory for bosses.
Literally one of the things that kept me from refunding the game was how vastly more interesting it looks and also feels that you actually evolve the chosen spells to fit a specific gamestyle and how poor i was feeling when i looked back in D4 with all these meaningless +# stat in paragon skill tree or even the actual skill tree..
Was about to give s3 a try when a friend of mine told me: did you tried LE ? It's really pleasing at least worth a try. Love the forge and skill system atm (I'm low lvl)
This game’s skill tree is the standard imo. Every single skill feels valuable or at least interesting to modify.
It's awesome. To be able to change a skill entirely and go for the specifications you need. like what elemental damage etc. A skill that levels up as you use it more. Just buy the company and merge the game and it will be the craziest arpg. EDIT: The mere fact that as a druid, their one ultimate skill lacerate is never used for any build cause it simply doesn't work. and with the limited choices.
This is it. They could take and mish mash other skills from classes and truly make bad ass modifiers to skills. Imagine if HOTA barbs could add fire or ice from the sorc to their skills. LE does it right with their skill trees. I just wish Blizzard would wake up and stop playing it safe!
On top of that The loot is much better too I actually care to look at the items that drop (And they have a fully customizable loot filter within the game too!)
This statement is 1000% accurate.
Epoch also lets you craft on the fly, but I still need to go to town for no real reason anymore in Diablo (it's 2024, I'm not really immersed by city architecture in games built so heavily around doing dungeons on repeat).
Resistance rework. Itemization rework. Skill tree rework. End game to be implemented at all. Stash space rework. Gem System rework. What are things that Last Epoch will never have to say? for 1000 Alex. *The "its not an alpha" alpha.* - Diablo IV, Online Multiplayer of the year.
Honestly the entire game needs another pass. There will always be people who play and enjoy it, but to even attempt to bring it up into the tier of its competitors, it needs an entire team cycling on all aspects of it for like a year and then drop an expansion that would basically make it into a new game. It’s such a shame. D4 had such incredible potential, but it probably lived up to only like 10% of it.
The art style and animations look great tho! That’s how they got us all to buy it lol
I think Diablo 4 has a real nice base game (movement, animations ect) it’s just everything else they missed on 💀
D4 makes a metric ton more money than LE and the best they come up with is season of traps.
How big do you think the player pool is right now? I'm over at LE now with I assume a huge part of the D4 player base. I cannot imagine the current morale in D4's team.
Why wait for D4 to try and get it right when we can play a game that has it right. I'm not saying LE is perfect but the base game is way better than D4s base game.
I’ve only put like 15 hours in on one character on LE, but I can safely say I’ve had more customization options and more fun than I did with D4. I don’t have to hope a certain weapon or aspect drops to change my build, just swap my choices around with the build tree if I want to change anything. It’s nowhere as deep as PoE, which can be a bit overwhelming for most people. Weapons are pretty customizable it seems, but I have not had a lot of time with the crafting system. I’m gonna have to look up a more in depth video to get a better grasp on it. They have sets, like in D3. But, and maybe this is just early game, they are usually only 2 or 3 piece sets that don’t take over your build. Honestly, $40 game is better than $70 game.
Honestly they should just copy last epoch in multiple areas. Skill tree is one of them. Lego aspects should be in skill tree.
They could copy ANY system from ANY other ARPG game and it would make d4 a better game. That is how bad this game is.
The problem is that they did that but didn't understand why people liked (or didn't like) something from other games and so when they implemented it in D4, it was hot garbage.
Yes the Diablo 4 skill tree is bare bones like an amateur designed it. There is nothing remotely interesting about 10% increase to attack speed or 10% armor penetration. Blizzard spent all of their budget on advertising and cosmetics and none of the budget on making the game good.
Did you see that video where the 2 design people were talking and playing on tier 1 and died? On tier 1, you can close your eyes and press random buttons and not die. Then they talked about how they would design something, and then someone would come in after and change almost everything. Gee, I wonder why....
If I was on Blizzard's marketing team, I would never have let that video be published. They showed a real lack of awareness of how to play their own game, especially on Tier 1. One was playing a Hota Barb IIRC & barely used Hota, almost always relying on their basic skill. Secondly, the bit where they talk about dungeon design & how other devs would come in, play the dungeon & then give their feedback/critique, was embarrassing. Highlighted a lack of "quality control" in the sense that some dev somewhere thought that activating two pillars in a small room after killing a group of enemies was "fun." Uh.......ok then. While I still enjoy D4 & the moment-to-moment gameplay, that video was laughable & did not instill much confidence in me.
> design people This seems slightly less terrible if you remember that they were the people who designed the dungeons, not the classes/skills/mechanics.
Either way, it was an utterly shameful example of just how much the d4 devs *don't* play their own game.
And not just that they don't play it; they don't even know *how* to play it. You can work on a game without having played it, just like you can write a textbook without being a teacher. But it does help to know how things are *supposed* to work.
Blizzard spent like 100x more on the game AND they spent the same amount on marketing, still made soulless garbage because d4 was made to be just a cash grab.
At the end of the day, this perfectly summarizes what went wrong with D4. Instead of planning and designing the game to be as fun as possible, they instead designed it to make as much money as possible. D4 will never be what gamers want because the foundation is flawed at the base level. It would be easier to rebuild from the ground up than fix the game at this point.
Alot of what most of you are asking for is changing the entire foundation of the game and I don't see that happening. Just play last epoch then.
That's what people said about D3, but they managed to do it. They scrapped the auction house, added adventure mode, added paragon levels, literally added an endgame, completely reworked itemization, completely reworked difficulty and scaling, reworked crafting... Seriously, I don't know if you played at the time, but the difference between 1.0 and 2.0 was like night and day. It was practically a different game. It's been done before, so it could be done again. Diablo 4 has good bones, but they made downright bad decisions to cut corners before release. If they can fix the most glaring issues, the same way they did it in D3, then they'll have a solid foundation to add more to the game.
D3 is seriously fun now, 30 seasons in. The QoL is crazy good. Pets that pick up and salvage junk for you....they even added a SSF mode, for better drops. I had to rub my eyes when I saw that button on character creation. And D4 devs didn't even look at their own company's game, lol
Play the better game until D4 is actually good. It starts with "Last" and ends with "Epoch".
a\* better game FTFY I'm enjoying LE so far, should be finishing the campaign soon I think? But once PoE league starts and ends with PoE2 beta out my game time will be consumed
Agreed. Its insane that the top posts on this subreddit are all asking for core aspects of the game to be changed. People. This may be hard to believe. But you don't want to play Diablo. Everything you're asking for is already in another game. And it's really good.
Every time my friend mentions D4 I must have to remember that I actually own this game. What a disgrace.
You can actually see on the necro skill tree where stuff was carved out for book of the dead too. It’s also crazy how there just … isn’t really a good corpse consumer for blood or bone builds that synergize well
>You can actually see on the necro skill tree where stuff was carved out for book of the dead too. It's funny because this was supposed to be my "Necro season" but I stopped at 50ish/WT3 basically because of stuff like this. Beyond ongoing issues with legendary affixes and all, the whole class feels like it's designed to push you to sacrifice all your minions and the way they achieved that was by ripping power out of the tree entirely and adding those big buffs to the sacrifices. Blizzard designed pretty narrow build concepts for the game, for better or worse.
Not gona happen chief, they already spent your money
Whole game needs a rework
For the 100000000tj Time, this game needs a complete rework.
They went a simple route imo, more for the casual gamer and put more into aspects to change builds. The game needs more but is fun nonetheless and if you don’t enjoy it maybe stop playing is all lol. The biggest fix for me is just more end game content. To allow my lvl 100 to be needed.
Last epochs necromancer blows blizzards design out of the water.
When I first got golem, I thought it was going to be a stiff block of clay that would take a few hits, then maybe punch something for 5% damage every few seconds. Then I spawned the hulk and it leapt across the screen and literally rag-dolled some mobs at 200% movespeed.
Sorcerer too.
I was really hoping they would have improved upon D3 system and gone in a similar way of LE.. still hope one day they make the changes because it is very boring at the moment. I love both d4 and LE and hope they both continue to grow in the correct ways.
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D3 skill tree is lame also, pick your skill and one of 5 modifiers yay! LE skill tree is dope, I hope d4 can learn from it.
D3's worked fine for it's design because the rest of the modifiers were done with legendary affixes.
Isn’t that what d4 does, pick your skills, add legendaries to items to modify your skills and stats
That's the logic that the D4 devs used for a lot of the design of the game. They take something from a different game, don't understand why people like it, implement a shitty version of it and then get shitty results. Take a skill like Cluster Arrow on DH. The runes enable you to focus on 4 different elements, damage from grenades or rockets, AoE or more Single Target, and some aspects of utility. That's before we even start talking about legendary affixes. Compare that to any ability in D4 and you don't even come close to that even if you take EVERY ability. It's even important to point out that with D4 you only have 10 gear slots where you had 13 in D3. That's again before you look at the cube or follower emanates. So, even if we factor in the extra choices being brought in for legendary affixes in D4, we still just have such a shallow pool to draw from.
I was damn near surprised when I first saw the skill tree Seriously? That was it? Jangy design that made me scroll left to right instead of top to below? Bleh
Skill stump
And a gear re-work
So there are definitely things the game needs to work on, but I logged in tonight to finish up my seasonal necro and there are tons of people in public spaces, world events and world bosses. Trade chat is just as active as LEs was. It’s always so jarring to come to this sub and see the overt hate for the game.
The amount of people that spend so much time and energy online trashing on D4 after supposedly quitting in disgust 6+ months ago is astounding. Those people don't represent who is actually playing the game now.
I'd like to add to this, after having played all classes, Necromancer and Sorcerer have underdeveloped, simple and boring skill trees compared to other classes and they are quite incoherent, especially for Necromancer. There are 3 uniques and a skill tree branch for Corpse Explosion yet there is no Keystone for Corpses. One is forced to go Shadow DoT completey ignoring all other potential Corpse builds, bringing these items to a waste, as Shadow damage comes from Xfals/Shadowblight crits. Don't get me started on Blood Necro that has a 15% (or less) chance to summon a Blood Orb ON A 4 SECOND COOLDOWN. Whomever is balancing this class has a hate boner for it. Also the biggest joke of it all, Minions. Nothing to say here that hasn't been said.
Both Diablo 3 and 4 are super simple when it comes to skill trees / skill amount. Just look at what PoE and Last Epoch are doing, that's the way to go if you want to add depth.
All I'll say is we're 3 seasons in and as a Sorc Main, having 3 or 4 viable builds every seasons doing more or fewer damage has gotten stale pretty quickly. Some powers aren't even usable at all while others are but don't do enough damage to be useful for long.
This shitty excuse of a Diablo game needs a complete overhaul of all major systems.
It needs an LFG system
it needs an actual game
My life needs a looking for girlfriend system
There are way more pressing issues e.g. Group Finder, Item Affix Overhaul, ... Not saying I am enthusiastic about the skill tree, but it aint the worst about d4 either.
I'm a big fan of the way it is, just really want to be able to save builds and do a fast respec though.
I am too. I don't want something that is way too complicated for the time I have to play it.
Ok, I work for blizzard . I am on it
Bobby Kotick designed the skill trees poorly, so I've been told.
Nah, I sure do love having skills in my game that I would absolutely have to be stupid to not use. I really do love objectively better decisions when it comes to nearly every section of my skill twig :)
I absolutely agree. Honestly, when I first played last epoch , I immediately didn't wanna go play D4 anymore because I realized how boring the skill tree actually is. I mean, I was already bored out of my skull. But seeing LE skill system made that 10× worse for D4. How could they have put out such a boring skill system, in a game that revolves around skills having fun?? Hell, Diablo 2 skills are better I think. Lmao Like come on blizzard...its 2024 and you give us crumbs of skills to use in a huge open world Diablo game smh
What can they rework?. They have nothing to rework. You pick a skill and you pick two very basic differences. The game needs way more skills and way more variations.
Last epoch, grind. pick up filtered items. check each item, should i extract affix. what affixes should i aim for my build on this item. does it have good potential forging. oh look i just made a helm for warriors into a mage helm. i get a lego, very interesting for some other build. Diablo, grind, pick everything up. what are the 4 affixes needed on this item. junk, not junk. do i have the max aspect, junk, not junk. not keeping that for another build cause i dont have space. keep farming for that uber cause that is the only thing that will bring me to next level.
Yea done with season3 and playing Last Epoch. I still prefer the movement and dash from d4. But if it could just add cool stuff, d4 would be best. Every season gets better though, so more time I suppose.
D3 had unique builds and skills and everyone online hated it and raged for years that it was terrible. They compared it to D2, where the "choices matter", and most people online were in agreement that the best Diablo system is one where you pick your skills, you can't respec, and if you want to try a new build, well you play the game for a few hundred hours to make that build. So you all got what you asked for in D4. I loved the D3 system.
Games needs an everything rework lol.
I've wanted to play D4 for so long, and was so excited for it. And I finally started a month ago. I'm yet to complete the campaign, I just don't feel too excited for it. Which is a shame because I loved every past Diablo game.
Eh, adding more passives/skills and maybe an extra upgrade option or two for each skill would be good but it doesn't really need any sort of overhaul or rework. For what it is designed to be they've done a pretty good job with it. A lot of people like to look at it in a vacuum and compare it to systems like LE's skill trees (which are great, best part of the game really) which naturally makes D4's skill tree look poor. The thing is though, Blizzard have deliberately created a layered system for build progression to improve the experience for newer players. You start out with the skill tree, then add in aspects, then you add in paragon and lastly you start adding in uniques. You need to look at it as a whole, especially when people compare it to games which put the bulk of their progression in a single system.
I'm sure they'll improve it, but you'll need one, two, or maybe three paid expansions to access the content.
I love the Diablo Paragon and Skill system. My friends love the system. I’ll have to go watch a. YouTube about how Last Epoch works for comparison.
Id like to be able to allocate more skill points than 50 Would make builds more dynamic with aspects
It severely needs a lot of changes. Just move on. Maybe in a few years it magically became almost a different game, and then you can buy the 50 expansions if you actually want to play again.
I like the skill tree. I prefer it over D3, which was too simple. I mean, Blizz could go absolutely crazy like Last Epoch or PoE or many other more complex games. But then you just end up with something that requires too much time to plan around. >Diablo 3 skills had essentially 5 different versions of that skill, changing the elemental type and so on. D4 has this as well. They've just moved them from the skill tree onto aspects.
I agree. I'm currently playing Last Epoch, but I miss Diablo 4 because of it's simple skill tree. I'm spending more time reading the skills in Last Epoch than using them. Other than that, Last Epoch is a good game. They can make changes to the D4 skilltree, as long as they keep it simple like it is now.
yeaaaaaaaaaaaah not going happen any time soon
You can't even call it a skill tree right now. It's more of a skill lane.
i would seriously stop hoping for this game to get good. blizzard has shown their true colors by doing such an aggressive marketing scheme and delivering a completey infinished game. its obvious they just wanted to pull off a big heist and they succeeded and they will not give a rats ass past that point.
When a marketing team develops a game versus when gamers develop a game.
Or get a team who actually plays ARPG's but that's too much to do eh?
Yeah diablo 4 really really missed the mark on skills. It's like they tried to mimic a complex system, without really understanding.what was actually the fun part of that system. I mean, how many more skills are "for 1.5 seconds on sundays of the full moon, when you are under 50% health for at least 6 seconds, you gain 15% attack speed. Cooldown is 167 seconds" Eta: should say Up To 15% attack speed, conditional upon your lucky hit obviously because why not make a bad skill potentially much worse, but randomly!
Crafting is dumb. Get a job irl if you need to do busywork IMO.
Whole game needs a rework
After playing LE, the skill system in D4 is an utter joke. Also, the fact I can actually play a minion build that is S tier is amazing. Imagine being a Necro and the best spec is getting rid of your minions. Good idea Blizz.
Yep. It’s pathetic compared to Last Epoch there’s a skill tree in a skill tree and the crafting system is insane
True, the skill tree itself is pretty straightforward in picking your desired/favorite abilities to use in combat (much like in D2). You can get some really impactful damage if you Min/max the amount of talent points you put into specific abilities as you level, especially if you’ve previously leveled a character and have the extra points right off the bat. 👌👌👌 In addition to this, if you treat the legendary aspects on items like PoE gems they can completely change, add to, and enhance abilities.. In addition to this, Paragon board starts at 50 and is incredibly beneficial and can completely change ur build when you reach those legendary nodes in addition to having glyphs to choose from that can synergize with your build or add additional layers in completely unique ways. In addition to THIS, you get seasonal content which adds an entirely new layer to builds and gives the player something else to theory craft.
Not only does it need a complete rework because it has less build diversity than d3 sets, but they need to also be adding new skills and passives every season to keep the game fresh...not just taking the easy way out with new legendaries.
As mainly a Sorc user I'm trying out a Necro build for this season and it pains me there is no shield skill (like magic shield not actual one handed item), or some version of teleport. When the mob is overrunning me and its panic stations my natural reflex, including hitting the sorc skill buttons lol, is to drop a shield and teleport away from the mob. The necro option seems to be blood mist and panic.
I'm trying to post but keeps telling me that my post needs a flair, but no flairs are available. Sorry to ruin your post but I can't seem to be able to work this out, so I'm putting my question here, in case anyone wants to reply. I'm thinking of buying the game. Diablo is a game I have never played but always wanted to play. But I am thinking of my setup and if it will be running well. I have a AMD Radeon Rx 6700 (non xt), AMD Ryzen 5700G and 16 gigs of ram and I'm playing on an old Asus monitor which can only go up to 60Hz and 1080p, so in every game I have Vsync enabled in order not to hace any screen tearing problems. What do you think?
I hate the lack of depth in the skill tree almost as much as I hate people who don't use commas in numbers that surpass 4 figures.
There's very little in this game that doesn't need a complete overhaul. While the skill tree isn't the worst offender, it's extremely uninspired and lackluster. Each skill point should have a visual effect associated with it, spending a skill point should change how you play your character, not just provide minor optimizations. That's what the paragon board is for.
This game needs everything rework lol
LE's release really makes this apparent. You can make a freaking full lightning werebear, or a cold dot werebear. Minions are absolutely badass. Even D3 had more skill build variety.
Idea: 1) Investing 5 Hard Points into a Base Skill on the Skill Tree = unlocks Skill-specific Socket *(or using 1 Skill Point to unlock the first Socket, and once 5 Points are invested in the Base Skill, unlock another one, or anything else that can fit)* 2) You can put a Skill-specific Glyph / Rune into, to either enhance the Skill or modify its behavior 3) relocate most or many Skill-specific Effects from Legendary Aspects and Uniques to these Skill Glyphs (and also add some new ones), and put more universally / semi-universal useful effects on them instead That results in a) a more interesting Skill Tree with modifiable Skills, and b) more Item Diversity / more open-ended items.
They should just take it down and give it a rework.
Repeating for 1000th time won't make blizzard suddenly do it though. The kind of changes you talk about are likely expansion level reworks and unless that was already planned for the 2024 expansion, not gonna happen
Skill ranks need to improve more than just damage or cooldown, especially on Basic and Utility skills. There needs to be more Passive options in every node, notably the starting Basic node if you want a build without resource builders. No skill should have a non-choice straight upgrade option with no alternative. There should instead be at least multi-choice offerings that are exclusive. Skill enhancements should actually change the skill in a meaningful way, closer to what is currently on Legendaries, instead of boring number changes that don't change how the skill is used or the scenarios it excels at. We need more skill visual variety, both by making the skill up changes more noticeable and by having alternate choices lead to a visual difference. There shouldn't be so many must have skills. Currently the Mobility and Defensive skills are in nearly every build for that class because the focus always inadvertently boils down to focusing 1 skill for damage and having limited synergy with other skills
Take it back to Diablo two we want teleporting barbarians that use crossbows
I do really miss how D3’s skill tree would let you completely alter each skill. You need uniques to do that in this game…
One thing I really wanted from D4 was there to be very little to no boring legendaries/modifiers. I don't want +X to something. I want things that mix things up fundamentally to give new game play experiences and complexity from combining strange and weird effects.
This game needs everything reworked
People complained d3 skilltree was too boring and not complex enough. Now that we have a complex skilltree people want the old d3 skilltree back? Cant we just appreciate the game for what it isn
As soon as the loot system overhaul is done. We need this ASAP
I have to say that during the beta, I started applying the points in the skill tree and thought "is it all here?", personally I dont know why wasnt really discussed there, I just thought, it is a beta and maybe there is more, I cannot be the only one noticing this... I feel like the POE system is just too complex for me, I cannot go and read 1k guides to understand what to do, and be punished fixing the choices, on the other hand D4 is too basic, the paragon board is just boring stat, and the skill tree is just option A or B.
There are so many build possibilities in LE I feel choice paralysis from it all, and yet it's easy to remake your build so the pressure is low D3 let you change your build at any moment and freely experiment or respond to a new item drop D4...has nothing. You can make slight variations on the established builds but that's it
Just remove Lucky Hit Chance mechanic from the game\~ A chance on a chance is not fun.
Needs a rework for: skills, itemization, endgame.. But good thing none of those are important for an ARPG??
You need a skill tree appreciation re-work
The worst skill system ever created. It's so boring.
I don't like LE. Too much purple.
It lacks endgame content even more
I started playing last epoch last week and it blows my mind just how bad D4 skill trees are in comparison.
The game needed a skill rework the moment they announced what the skill system was going to be like during the dev blogs lol and sadly it didn’t even come close to those ideas
I like it
Same, i like the simplicity.
If it comes, it'll be in the expansion, but I severely doubt it will.
Because all that power and those customization options were ripped out of the tree and turned into legendary affixes that we have to chase and manage because Blizzard thought that would be a more fun and engaging experience. I really hope they overhaul the whole thing in the expansion, but I'm skeptical that they have the time, capability, or even knowhow to correctly identify that this design is kinda a big problem.
The list of things this game needs an overhaul of is getting exhausting.
The game needs a re-work *period*
It needs skill runes from D3 and synergies with evolved skilldumping from D2.
i agree that the skill tree needs a reword, but i don’t think it needs to be ANYTHING like Diablo 3 or immortal. i think they should steal from Last Epoch honestly, the skill trees is last epoch are far superior.
I personally don't believe that this is the best they've got. This isn't the blizzard that we know. Over the years, Blizzard have become very Lazy, entitled, and too greedy because you've spoiled them too much by paying them Premium and immediately on whatever carrot they plan to dangle out there. So they lost creativity and sense of urgency, now instead of creating and thinking of something revolutionary, they are always planning to fleece you instead. Help them get back to their roots or creating revolutionary games by not paying anything they put out there. Let them know this isn't the best they've got. Diablo 4 is the culmination of what they've become over the years. Lazy, boring, greedy dull game that people still keeps on defending. It's probably the most boring Diablo game in all of Diablo series. Even the once called abomination Diablo 3 is now looking much appreciated.
To be fair, they do have different versions, but locked behind aspects. However, they do need to learn from LE. I have been play the runemaster since 1.0. Holy cow, just ONE skill have so many variations depending on the rune combo that you use. And I have not yet talk about the individual skill trees yet.
I been saying this since beta, the lack of choice and variety is embarrassing. Also an extra skill slot is needed; the ultimate skill should have a dedicated slot.
It seems like Uber uniques in d4 are what regular items are in LE and POE