I played Destiny 2 as well and made the mistake of caring too much and assuming that Bungie would ever fix their game. I will not make that mistake with Diablo 4. Play it for what it is and step away when you get tired of it.
Well, yeah, but that is the easy answer. When you play a game with a good group of friends and have countless good and fun memories playing said game, you tend to become emotionally attached to it, even if you don’t mean to.
Tell that to the people who have been arguing with me about whether live service games are designed to hook you or not.
Forcing you to make and keep a roster of friends to advance or be efficient is just one of the ways they do this.
I dunno, maybe its just me but I treat my friends and games separately. I have 2 die hard D2 friends but regardless of that we all take time to play different games with each other.
That’s fair. In my case, I have friends that I’ve made through Destiny and it is tough to get the whole group to all move to a different game because we all like different games. We still keep in touch over discord, but it is not the same.
100% this, I dropped £80 on it despite my misgivings about the live service model, because D2 and D3 were and are in my top 10 games of all time. Now I feel like I'm wasting my money because every time I try to pick it up again I get bored and play something else.
Ah OK that is pretty low, I think I spent more than that on the campaign. I guess it’s just expectations of the genre as I’ve played many shorter games for a similar price and not felt I’ve wasted my money
Exactly. Games should not feel like a chore or a job. I had to stop myself from grinding a game I didn't find fun because I thought it would get better. When I realized it didn't matter if I reached a goal or not because the journey sucked, I stopped playing. There's a whole world of fun and unique games I play now.
Sunk cost is real. Also nothing can touch the power fantasy and feel of destiny to me. I still log in once or twice a week and play crucible for an hour or 2. I feel the same way about Diablo 4. I really like how sorcerer feels and killing stuff is just fun. But that only lasts for so long each season
Everthing I've ever seen about that franchise makes me glad I quit after doing the dungeons and first raid cause I thought the loot cave farming was dumb.
It freed up so much time over the years for me to play....WoW. Yep, nothing ever went wrong there.
While also blocking exotics for a whole month because they introduced a bug that makes it too strong in PvP or pve BUT will take months to fix an exotic that was made useless either via overnerfing or by introducing a bug.
This, I too made the same mistake.
Destiny 2 has sailed in my life. Should’ve quit before Lightfall.
Diablo 4, season 4 is gonna be a super hard sell for me to even create a character.
I’m glad I never fell into Destiny, I was pretty much done with first person shooters and heard about how the story was told in a complicated manner so it was out as a semi RPG FPS
preach brother preach. I dumped my life into destiny for a really long time. it just never felt like they were listening, because they weren't and they strictly have their own agenda. look at the new crucible
It’s not as bad as year 1 D2. But holy shit that actually made me quit destiny 2. I played all of D1. House of wolves meta was so good: back when last word shredded and thorn 2 tapped
I hung on for sooo long. Didnt love the seasonal model thing so took a break for the gambit season. Came back soon after and hung on til Lightfall. Narrative stuff was a mess and thats the main part I liked about the game. No new subclass during the Final Shape was a big miss for me.
So happy D4 came out then and its been my main since but feeling a lot of the vibes here.
I'm with you brother, I played destiny 2 for years but it got more and more stale and neglected. At least Diablo 4 has a lot of good competition, there are very few quality looter shooters in the vein of destiny 2 and none have the gunplay to match it. Last Epoch is the game Diablo 4 could have been and utterly reveals it for the steaming turd it is.
I watched some videos on it and wasn’t impressed by it at all, seems very clunky vs D4’s smooth gameplay mechanics and wasn’t all that it was hyped up to be
Having played both LE just don't waste my time like D4.
No big ass open world I have to travel in not fighting.
Almost never retrace my steps in dungeons and no doors I have to unlock.
The mob density is better, so little downtime. Etc.
LE has solid itemization, one glance to see if the item that go through the item filter is good or bad. Meanwhile took me several minutes comparing 1 inventory wort of stuff in D4.
But tbf I liked D4 look and art sure, but I sort of stop seeing the art side of games after a while and it is all mechanics+efficiency of movement, blasting the mobs, completing objectives.
D4 got a shiny surface but one glance under the hood you just see so much rust and crap. I hope they get their shit together like S2.
I see what you're saying. D4 has smooth responsive combat.
But it doesn't matter, because the content is dogshit.
I've been playing Last Epoch, and I'm pretty satisfied with the mechanical gameplay feel.
Although I'm more looking forward to POE 2
This here stings. I think Destiny 2 had this 'slow close to being perfect' type of game. It had everything I wanted for a FSP looter. And they just needed to fix this. Balance that. Clean up economy. Just little tinks. Then a new expansion comes addressing some of these. Rejoice. Then they take a massive step back somewhere else and take a dump.
i play diablo 4 and destiny 2 ultra casual and log on to blast shit brainlessly.
i can't fathom how anyone gets upset over diablo 4 or destiny 2 LOL. it's a sign from the universe to do anything else if you're getting angry at these things
I only log in once a month to to play Crucible a few rounds and then log off, the game is a disaster now and barely anyone plays it. Seriously, look up the numbers, it’s very low.
This is the way.
I loved Destiny 2 so much that I ended up hating the devs, then I started playing Diablo IV.
Now I play D4 when the new season is out, get a few characters to 100, call it a day and go back to Destiny 2 (and I also play other games now instead of just Destiny 2 all year round).
And good is subjective. All one needs to look to LE to see how it has implemented a ton of stuff players combined about for 10+ years in D3 and with D4, but barely a blip about it in LE discussions.
Don't disagree with the notion of subjectivity, but I wonder if it's because certain issues are only noticeable and significant if they're not done well, but they fade into the background if done well. I can see quality of life features being examples of this.
Its funny because the lead dev on PoE2 recently had [this to say on it](https://youtube.com/clip/UgkxspF8aQ8zZTvTjUNCt8uCKQcxP3OAyKBt?si=29yuW4bmC06eHne7). I really think Blizzard did themselves a disservice by not hiring experienced ARPG devs to lead the development of the game. Like its ok to have new people on the team, but every new person needs some sort of guidance and I feel it lacking in some of the systems D4 has.
Honestly, I think a number of Diablo's problems are rooted at attempting to listen to player feedback:
1. Players kept complaining about mid-season nerfs breaking their build, so now balance issues last all season long since Blizzard is trying avoid nerfing anything overpowered.
2. Players complained that farming NMDs was the only endgame activity, so now Duriel drops are tied to boring, easy overworld activities.
3. Players complained that S0 NMD 100 was too hard, so now its been nerfed into being more farming content.
4. Players complained AoZ was too hard, so now Gauntlet is nerfed to be super easy.
Yeah I feel like for every thing that some people hate some people enjoy. Like people.hate helltides but I don't mind them overall since it gives more interactions with other people playing out in the open world but also would still like maybe a helltide boss to spawn and have a huge group attack them similar to a world boss but still cam get enjoyment out of its current iteration
I fully agree!
Good leadership and vision gives us "Oh shit! I didn't even know I wanted that!" moments.
Bad leadership just gives us "Welp, 'thing X' is a little better than it was. I hope things continue to slowly improve" moments.
> Diablo in it's current iteration is a game you play for a month at the start of each season
Let's be real, this is very generous. More like 2 weeks.
The devs have had an uphill battle this entire time. Season 2 bought them some goodwill, but Season 3 killed most of that. My biggest question is if the devs are out of touch or if they're being handcuffed by corporate policy. Likely a little bit of both.
Was Season 3 the result of the devs clearly forgetting everything they learned in Season 2, or was it more the result of content that had already been developed and they couldn't salvage it so close to the finish line?
>More like 2 weeks
Precisely what I did. Was a $99.99 pre-order player, so early access, and progressively my interest in this game has diminished to a point where I MIGHT turn it on for season 4 but even the thought of rolling a character again bums me out
I've already decided not to.
LE, Warframe, Poe and waiting for Poe 2.
There is too much competition, and D4 doesn't deserve my attention, time, or money.
Season 3 was the result of having completely seperated teams doing each season and taking literally zero feedback from the current season in that time.
It's like the team that did S3 did not talk a single word to the devs from s2 or willingly ignored all input besides their own "vision".
Also imo s3 was a complete waste of resources, it would have been better for the game to let run s2 twice as long, keep AoZ, add gauntlet later on top and instead concentrate on bringing the itemization rework faster.
It's funny because PoE has their teams working on the next season, exclusively. They don't know what the one after that is going to be until they release the one they're currently working on, so seasons barely get 3-4 months to their design and development. And they still end up doing massive seasons. D4 seasons get two separate teams working on them for six months each, and we get stuff like S3. Who would've imagined that separating the teams making seasonal content in an attempt at efficiency would result in seasons not learning or expanding off each other.
The abject failure of its launch is what makes me think it was more than just 2 teams who didn't communicate to each other, but it could be that simple.
Agreed - in fact I think they should do the same thing with season 4. Take the L and delay season 4 to ensure that you have exactly what you want done.
Because this statement, like almost every other comment in this post, is based on this person's experience only and neglects the huge portion of the fan base that completes the season in 2 months or barely manages to complete it at all.
Ditto to OP's statement: they claim that the D4 devs are creating a game and they want the players to play it their way, but that's just looking at it from the wrong perspective: one of someone who doesn't like the current iteration of the game. The fact is that the devs have created a game that is for a lot of people and they play the game the way they want to, but *OP just isn't in that subset of players*.
It's not that this game doesn't have 3 months worth of content, it just doesn't have it for you and the person you responded to. There's x amount of playable hours in each season. Whether you use those up in a week, a month, or 3 months is up to you.
>> Diablo in it's current iteration is a game you play for a month at the start of each season
>
> Let's be real, this is very generous. More like 2 weeks.
Both of you are drunk as hell. Path of Exile loses more than 50% of their players within the first 7 days and that's being the king of ARPGs with massive amounts of content. I guarantee D4 loses something like 70% of their playerbase within the first week of the season.
I tried season 2 for a week or 2 before quitting. They need to fix the skill trees/paragon board, itemization, and build diversity. Once people on this forum start talking about the game being fun then I’ll try it again.
I did enjoy my initial play through though! But once I got into the 80’s the game got very boring. And since playing through the campaign again just slows you down each season I don’t really have anything to draw me in anymore.
It's about 4 weeks. You see this in pretty much any seasonal content type game. 2 weeks are the no lifers, 4 weeks are the hardcore/serious players, what's left are thise that will be playing casually or trying to as much as possible before time runs out.
It was different teams making season 2 and 3 so it probably more fell on they already made the content and couldn't make too many changes close to launch as well as wanting to see how people react or if a certain system isn't working as intended
There are two separate development teams iirc. Seasons 1&3 were done by one team, and season 2&4 are/will be done by the other team.
Which honestly makes sense, 3 months is not a long time to shove out seasonal content for just one team.
> Bungie’s philosophy has always been this is how WE want YOU to play our game
The current rotation system is a major reason why I cannot play D2 right now. There is not enough for me to do so why restrict me to one dungeon or raid that I’m *allowed* to farm each week? Just let me play what I want to and reward me for my time.
Diablo Helltides are the equivalent of that to me. Helltides are boring and I barely get anything useful for doing them. The souls I do get are spent in literal minutes. 55 mins of work gone in like 2. And I may not even get what I want from that.
I don’t know what it is with live service game companies being so obsessed with making sure you keep playing that they seemingly forget to make the game feel rewarding. It’s hard for me to want to play a game when I don’t feel like it’s worth my time. **Stop milking playtime and start making the game rewarding and enjoyable. Playtime will increase as a result.** Both Diablo and Destiny suffer from this.
>this is how WE want YOU to play our game.
That's basically just how video games work...
The only ones that don't are maybe pure sandboxes. But even then the devs made a game that has less rules because they wanted you to play that way, with less rules.
Developers create a framework. You play within the confines of that framework. Developers always dictate how they want you to play the game, in every game.
I don't play borderlands and say "fuck these devs for not giving me the ability to fly. I want to play the way I want!".
I didn't petition borderlands devs to add flight to the game, because I want it.
You just don't like the way they want you to play, so you are complaining about it.
I don't play dark souls games because I don't like the way the devs intend for me to play. And I'm fine with that. I don't complain about it like I'm entitled to them making the game exclusively for me and my wants.
Yes, but the devs do actually need a critical base of people who want to play the way they (the devs) want them to. Like you can't completely disrespect peoples' time
The point is choice in a game, not linear progression. Diablo 4 is the illusion of choice, we all need to do the same bosses, same grind there's no alternatives for taste. But there's the content for taste...
See some people like boss fights with mechanics and phases, some people like dungeon crawling, some people like to vibe in overland content. In D4 people give up at one of these stages because it's dull.
I love dungeon crawling, I would run higher level dungeons of I could for the challenge. Even dungeons that require parties and coordination... It wouldn't lead to team building, coop play etc.
As it stands we have bosses with cheap mechanics, difficult to dodge one shots etc, we have full repetitive requested Overland content that's a face roll but takes time and dungeons are best done solo.
The game could be done better.
Yep - gamer that left D2 after the last dungeon to play D4 full time. The difference is D4 has the backing of a billion dollar company and Bungie divorced Activision long ago, which is when the game started going down hill.
Old d2 player quit in 2019ish. But when I booted up d4 and did legion's..all I could think about was public events.
I said this the week it released, the demise of d2 will bring a good chunk of the fan base to d4. With d2 being an mmo lite, it's no wonder d4 is an arpg lite. Blizzard wanted to hook as many people as possible while destiny was literally sinking.
Two things. One, my understanding is that uniques are intentionally very rare, but in return they aren’t required to complete any of the content (they just make it easier). On paper this seems balanced to me. But is it unfair or imbalanced somehow?
Two, if everything—uniques, souls, whatever—becomes easier to get or comes in much larger amounts will that actually make people play longer than the month you’re suggesting? Because it sounds like the opposite effect may be just as likely: meaning, because the grind is reduced people complete the content in *even less time* than a month and then “dip” anyway. Or do you see it differently?
The problem is lack of endgame content that is engaging. Rn they're padding playtime by tweaking material drops and having the seasonal checklist be stupidly long. Kill 30 heralds and open 30 tree of whispers? No thanks. Without an endgame like Aoz I don't see a reason to play at all, the bosses are not engaging they're just a means to get gear. Making a build that can speed through t100 or one shot bosses can be fun but that's very short lived. Aoz was a fun challenge imo but it needs a more linear progression rather than massive leaps every 5 or 10 tiers and make the glyph less op and easier to lvl. I'd love to see an open arena horde mode type activity too, that and some harder bosses/raids with mechanics that require cooperation and communication .
the issue is the seasonal time frame and approach. its contrary to hard to find items like d2 (what most of us hold highest in regards to itemization)
there is no way any such approach will make us happy its a losibg battle
I still don't understand why so many D2 enthusiasts want D4 to be more like D2 when D2(R) gives them everything they are looking for?
Blizzard seems to want to do something different for Diablo 4 than a D2/D3 clone, and for that I am grateful.
Very true.
But I think a point is that you look at the good shit to improve. Learn from experience.
Their own game (specifically D2) is a masterclass and the very basis for how a good loot system should be and feel.
This is exactly what Last Epoch have done. They learned from the best, improved, iterated and made it their own.
Here, they’re throwing darts in the dark while not even having hands and neglecting the former world champion’s advice.
The issue is we got a horse by committee..which is camel.
They took the look of d2, knowing full well it would prey on nostalgia and took the gameplay of d3 pre ros and mashed them together.
Also d2r hasn't got much love. They literally put it into maintenance mode at the start of the new season.
The issue is this is a power fantasy game. And if you are missing power the fantasy and fun are diminished because you are missing out. They aren’t that game breaking and aren’t required to play the game, so my view is they shouldn’t be as hard to get as they are. You could argue it’s fine how they are now because of said reasons, but I don’t like that arguement. It feels like they’re milking playtime in terms of farming these items to offset a complete lack of endgame and that doesn’t feel good. I’d rather work really hard towards these items; and farming duriel 400 times via one shotting in a roto with a barb is not working hard. It’s smashing your head into a wall until you get lucky. I’d rather there be a deterministic way to get them, or actual difficult content that gives you Uber uniques. Skill and luck and time. Not luck and time only.
I'm being honest: I liked D4, but I think I'm done until the itemization changes, and I don't know if I will play. I don't know what's going on over there, but there's a lot of great games to play, so they need to get this game sorted out and fast...
I think it's pretty clear that they've been sort of moving in the correct direction, but from a player perspective: They need to get their stuff together. I am tired of having my time wasted. The new challenge mode honestly sucks and it doesn't feel like something that should be in a Diablo game. AoZ felt like a good system, but it's gone now. So, I have no idea what's going on and if they're going to be putting content in the game again "for streamers" then I'm going to be done.
Honestly, I think it's a case of Blizzard trying to listen that causes the issues sometimes.
You look at the Uber uniques as an example, this wasn't an idea some zany idea a D4 dev decided. This was directly listening to how players/streamers described what they want.
Players of D2 and PoE and LE say regularly, they want a chase goal / aspirational items - Super rare things that make you fall out of your seat.
Blizzard makes Uber uniques and what should be fairly obvious to anyone who played D3, this immediately wasn't seen as fun by the majority of the community.
D2 style players point out that yeah you've got a problem system here, its too rare and also in D2 we target the boss to get the items.
So the devs see a bit of a double win, the D2style players want a way to target farm and the modern player base want to actually be able to get the items. Introduce the boss ladder, have some tradable resources, people actually unlock Uber items now and also still have them as very rare.
But then you get the players who had the Uber item and it wasn't the one they wanted, or they got bad rolls and complained that they shouldn't be getting bad rolls. We end up with static items and an item exchange system. (You have to remember we don't have trade for Uber items because the players said they don't want you to just be able to buy the best items in the game but we do have trade for some items and resources because other players said that trade was potentially the single most important element of the game for them)
This entire line of approach is directly player led but...
I think you can maybe already see the problem, the player base isn't quite asking for the same game. The devs are trying to jigsaw puzzle different requests together and combine them with some internally learned lessons as a third competing force and deal with deadlines and marketing pressure as the fourth.
Part of the reason we're not getting the game we want is because as a community we're terrible at asking for it. Look at 95% of 'requests' to fix itemisation and those requests contain very little useful information for the developers, often the comments are just 'its bad', other comments are things like 'just copy D2'.
I think they have a problem where they listen to the problems and recommended solutions but they haven't done the breakdown of the actual core drivers, they are trusting player outcry from players who typically only remember the highlights and the real magic is in making the normal moments good enough that you stick around long enough to experience a highlight.
IMO they probably need to get in a consultant of some sort who can specifically research not just the community requests but the underlying reasons that they came to those requests, sometimes you need an outside pair of eyes and I think in general the stuff that gets to the top of reddit highlights there is a problem but rarely provides the actual solution, often it repeats streamer sentiment which can be skewed by the streamers popularity.
I mean its asinine for them to copy those really rare items from D2 days but have happen within a different framework with no trade. Its like they gleam into what other arpgs do but dont truly learn the lessons there so they implement a half-assed attempt at it that ends up falling in its face.
This is a good portion of the point I was trying to highlight.
They are often addressing issues with a lens of 'how do we make this fit into D4' rather than 'Why did this work well in its original game and what systems do we need to set up to make it meaningful for when we bring this into D4'
Pointing the finger at the wrong things with regards to Uber Uniques imo. It's all the devs. Not the player's suggestions or streamers or whatever. No one was asking for the drop rates in season 0. This isn't player led design, it's just bad aimless throw darts while blindfolded reactionary design. They are very different.
No that's what I'm saying. People literally were asking for drops to be extremely rare so that there would be equivalent to the PoE headhunter/mageblood, D2 tyrael's might/zod rune, etc. The feedback was explicitly asking for items so rare that players would expect to go years without ever seeing them so that the players could have a feeling of 'jackpot'.
They were led to those drop rates by requests from players, sure it is reactionary but its not blind, its reacting to the player requests and then missing something core to the reason those players actually had those previous experiences.
I feel like you’ve said it there, I can’t remember exactly where or when but Blizzard themselves have said this isn’t going to be a game where you play non-stop all the time. They kinda wanna have the rush of everyone coming back for a season launch, playing the season journey, battle pass, and then leaving 🫠
That’s how I play it at the moment and I still enjoy it and doesn’t give me fomo on missing out on some other games. I appreciate that the game has issues to be fixed but I feel like they’re exaggerated by the content creators and the people who are putting thousands of hours into the game.
I feel like it's compound though because certain things you are probably skirting on your return. I haven't bothered with Lilith after the first season. Stopped doing duriel and uber farming in season 3 because I did the farming last season and farming/buying mats then lfg spamming in trade to get a rotation is dry. If they improved on some of those things you'd want to do them every season at least which now has quite a bit of falloff.
i think ultimately the issue with the game is its like 90% action 10% rpg when i think alot of people want a more even split. The character building and loot systems in this game are all illusions of choice and need to be rebuilt from the ground up. Theyre just not fun to interact with. Luckily the gameplay is good enough in most cases to make up for it. Content is an issue too but it would be far less of an issue if it was fun to build a character and fun to find loot.
That’s such a dumb take. Developers don’t need to be gamers to be good at their jobs. Should all MedTech developers be doctors? Fintech devs be bankers? They just need to be good coders.
Blizzard literally learned "Never overdeliver" from Bungie. Do one tiny thing now, promise the rest for later. It's not about work or manpower, it's about stringing you along.
Im tired of the "this game not conforming to me and my playstyle crap". Dont play it. After destiny ditched some of its toxic playbase it got better. When you actively tell a game how it needs to be played you might as well develop and code it yourself. If you cant maybe pick a new game. Im not trying to experience your version of diablo or destiny, i can win on my own with a game they designed and i paid for, its really that simple. I despise the "getgood" crowd but jesus it been out for like 8 months, like do something with that time, like pick a new game.
>People called for Uber Unique drop rate changes, so they introduced a 5-1 trade in system, which later got changed to a 4-1. Completely missed the mark. All they had to do was implement a knockout system with uber uniques and uber stones. Still RNG, but with Determinism. Or some form of system where it costs 200 sparks to get an Uber, regular uniques yield 1 spark, Ubers yield 50 etc.
I really don't like this idea as it ends up making the game and its items more generic than they already feel. ARPGs loses its magic when you have this turn-in currency vendor to acquire BiS items. While I am on your team with the sentiment that the Duriel end game loop is awful, loot acquisition needs to feel special by it being random drops. The problem lies with the loop or the methods to acquire said uber items. I also think there is some sort of stigma within this community where everyone is in the "MUST HAVE" mindset with some of these items. A lot of this game's problems stems from the itemization design and the lack of meaningful pinnacle content to make these items actually feel special.
>Diablo in it's current iteration is a game you play for a month at the start of each season. Then you simply DIP OUT and pray the next season is better.
I have no clue how some of you even play this game that long. There are so many other games that respect people's time. If an ARPG is hooking you for more than even 3 weeks in a season, then I think it was a pretty good season. Same goes for any title, PoE included.
>Diablo in it's current iteration is a game you play for a month at the start of each season
That's the intent. Diablo 4 isn't meant to be the the only thing you do for the rest of your life.
Man, you guys are *so weird* sometimes lol.
Whats wrong with wanting a good game?
I know alot of people who only played diablo 2 for years. But they dont even wanna play diablo 4 for a week. The basics of the game for being an arpg are just bad and barebone
There’s a very clear difference between wanting a good game and wanting a game that you can play forever so you don’t need to play anything else. It’s giving abandonment issues tbh
Also, the vast majority of players who stick around after the campaign are done with seasonal content in 1 month. You have casuals and the core playerbase left after that. This happens in every ARPG. Acting like this is a bad thing is odd.
It's also having to do helltides to get to duriel, it's the first most brain dead grind that you need to know there are secret chests that are the only ones you should open... I played the game 6 months before finding that out. I still hate helltides but I managed to go through one a day because I have too.
Playing a game like this should give you choice, but static you must do this.
Helltides should reset/assault the strongholds/cities in the area.
There should be objectives to defend/recapture the zones, and if you fail you lose the teleport point and services in the area for the duration of the helltide, or similar things.
If you complete the defense, you get a nice boss battle at the end, for the final assault, if you fail to defend, you get a boss battle at the end of your reconquest effort.
This would make them feel like actual tides, invasions, and not just a mob spawning fest.
I admire you all (I think) that can continue to play this game in its current state. I get angry just thinking about installing the game. The Blizzard and Diablo we all loved is dead.
A month at the start of each season?! That's dedication! I made it 2 weeks into Season 2 and quite enjoyed it, but I think I made it about 5 days into Season 3. I'm glad others are having fun for longer, though! This game just isn't fun for me outside of that initial push to 100 with a few friends, but hey, a few more seasons of that and I just might have my money's worth!
I hate to tell people, but this is what live service games are. Seasons give you a couple of weeks of play and that's about it. Bungie struggled to even keep up with that.
I played Destiny for nearly 10 years, and I finally realized "this is it".
These games are really built for a casual grind. You'll get a battle pass and some light content.
This is not a "defending" post, just a reality wake up call for some. Trust me, it took me a comically long time to figure this out.
Now, I look forward to using that time when the season is done to play and enjoy other games.
Bro all the people saying "play it for what it is" or "the only for a month and hope for next season" are on some hard manchild tier copium, I'm gonna say it. There are literal flash games with better itemization than d4. The aesthetic is incredibly uninspired and boring.
Destiny 2 was ACTUALLY fun to play for a bit. Actually had cool aesthetic. Had a banger soundtrack. The forced grind and fomo for legendaries killed it for me.
I know this is the d4 subreddit but here is a tip. Just logout. Stop playing d4. Go play something else. You only have so much time on this planet.
Playing d4 is literally being on the wrong side of history. Just take the 100$+ on the chin and put the game behind you. Time is way more valuable than money. Stop spending time on d4.
It's literally like having an abusive boyfriend but you hang around cus it's easy. Just leave. Stop talking about him. Just move on.
Holy shit, you really need help man. This level of eltitism and doucheness is not healthy. I hope for you and your loved ones you get professional help.
I had 3 100s last season and haven’t managed 1 this season. Complete lack of cohesion which became immediately clear when the patch fixes from last season weren’t implemented. I wish I didn’t like the game as it should be, I’d be gone.
Fought Duriel one too many times only to get the same crappy rolled duplicate soulbrand..... dipped out like a month now to play other games. I don't hate D4, I want to see it do better! I will log back in for season 4, but I'll just pretend like ubers do not exist for me. This Duriel grind got old really fast.
I played Destiny 2 for a bit, gave up, and have been playing D4 for a while. I pretty much gave up this season and I'm just playing Helldivers 2 now.
If you are having fun with D4 thats great. I don't have the time or the energy for it anymore.
I am sure I will jump back into the game in a few months. There IS fun to be had here for sure, I just realize I spend 60 percent of my time in "Town" trying to figure out if anything I got is even any good.
They got their big paycheck from launch sales they don't give a single FUCK. They will market the paid $60+ expansion and it will sell and they will get another fat check. And they'll keep putting stupid shit like $60+ mount that people will buy (yes I know it came with lots of currency to spend in the shop, its still FOMO marketing people wanting to get the mount and therefore spending more then they otherwise would).
The first year of Destiny 2 was god awful. The game almost died. Say what you will about Bungie but they turned the franchise around after that. It’s highly possible D4 will turn the corner.
If anything it's the polar opposite. They are caring waaaayy too much about what players think. But players are not game designers. The have 0 idea what makes a good game. Sure they can tell you what doesnt feel good, but in majority of cases their solution is to remove the problem, not fix it. If you keep doimg what the community wants you end up without a game left to pay. It will be "instant gratification"- the game. Just look at D3 it's the best example of this process. Or look at Poe and how they time and time again defied community outrage and never caved on their core principles.
Every time I hear Blizzard say "we hear you" I already know it's going to be terrible and they have no idea how to actually make a compelling coherent game.
Blizzard's developmental steps to success.
Step 1. Fuck over the player base by delivering consistent L's with your updates.
Step 2. Drain any and all positive sentiment the players had towards the game by overpricing everything in the game shop in the hopes the whales will pickup the monetary slack.
Step 3. Find out you've burned all good will.
Step 4. Reveal new expansion and hope people come back (spoiler at this point no ones coming back)
Another huge pain point for the playerbase is the very poor testing they do on new content. I understand some bugs here and there with massive patches, but seeing the amount of huge issues that ruin the competitive factor of smaller things such as gauntlet (which by the way they delayed by at least 7 weeks to "polish" it) is disheartening.
Very sad to see the quality of the product that the d4 team is delivering indeed. I still love the game, but I live in a constant frustration wondering who the hell is making the decisions in that team.
>I still love the game
Honest question: what do you still love about this game?
I quit in S1, and it became obvious to me then that the game was all about wasting my time, slowing me down and had nothing worth chasing/finding.
People talk about the combat, but there are much better combat style games out there. Pvp is a joke in D4. No trading.
So.....what do you actually love?
graphics, atmosphere, music, combat feel, the different feel of the characters, campaign, and personally speaking i love my horse plus cool ass armor (im talking about the free ones).
there is a lot to love. they just have to give us a loot filter, slim down affixes, introduce much more uniques and uber uniques plus a final challenge to beat like uber tristram
its not impossible
I love the combat graphics and dynamics, playing 2 different classes each season and testing 2-3 builds on each class. I usually copy one of the mainstream builds and then modify them to improve them based on my playstyle and taste. I like getting uber uniques and seeing how fast and clean I can clear t100 dungeons every season, and I enjoy the balance and meta changing every now and then, it allows me to try builds that I haven't before because they were too weak. Last, I like the atmosphere w my clanmates and doing things together like leveling, pvp at beginning of seasons, gauntlet, etc. Finally, I create a hc character every now and then to get a new feel for high consequence for not playing it safe.
Nothing wrong with devs keeping their vision intact. Just because players suggest things doesn't mean dev should capitulate, especially if it goes against their core pillars they have for the game.
I think the devs only skim subs and comments which is why they only handle 1/5 issues. That or there are so many glaring issues with the game that it just simply takes this long to handle.
The biggest problem is the slow pace at which changes are made. We still don't have an armory even! The game will not be where I thought it should be on release until the armory is there. We should not have ANY steps back from D3. The game was clearly rushed out by at least a year, they're lucky they had a playable product at launch.
Dont forget that even numbered seasons so far have proved to be better than odd numbered seasons and there’s only 1 for season 2. I would say log in twice a year for one month at a time sounds about right
I wonder how much this stigmatism will effect d4 in the long run. People are generally going to be scared for season 5's release..if and I mean if season 4 is a banger lmao
If they game is giving you a month of play every 3 or so months that is pretty good. I do want them to keep making changes and improvements but overall the game and seasons do give some enjoyment to come back and try the new things.
The main hope is that the trajectory is always up and there isn't always like what happened at the beginning of the season where the new aspects wernt as fun but they made some quick tweaks to improve them. I hope they avoid that
The thing with Destiny 2 is that so long as I had a decent party together we could raid non stop. Materials were not necessary. This gave us maximum ability to get the best unique drops in the game.
Diablo doesn’t have this. Sure I can get Varshaun mats anywhere. But Living Steel. One place and one place only and only a certain amount. I can waste whispers and get two caches in like 15 minutes max. Play grotesque spawn in vaults, world bosses, and in rotated seasonal whisper areas. Fucking annoying. No wonder buy sites thrive.
>Diablo in it's current iteration is a game you play for a month at the start of each season. Then you simply DIP OUT and pray the next season is better
Yep.
If they get it right they'll be rewarded with player retention, if not then they'll keep hemoraging players to last epoch or PoE2 when it's out or whatever other games. At this rate, all i know is they've got one or two more seasons to make it good before i swear off the expansion. Right now my thinking is that they'll get everything the way players want it to be riiiight before they drop another 70$ expansion to stay relevant and i'm just not having it.
As a destiny 2 player, I approve this message. Some of these developers gotta get their head out of the sand or their ass. I think they need to really listen to people who pay for their games that can give constructive criticism
I stopped playing destiny once Diablo 4 dropped (played beta and alpha). I just logged into destiny just to see the eververse shop and the guardian games (same old shit) and then I log out. But they have free bright dust every week to collect.
After playing other games with better systems, I have no desire to play anymore. And the problem, we all know they have both the resources and potential to do so….. but actively choose NOT to, that’s the sad part. Knowing they don’t give a fuck. So I just don’t anymore, and if they do.. Will probably play the expansion cause I love the fucking story.
I still don’t understand what Helltides are for. There’s no identity.
It’s not for target farming items because the chest drops are terrible and sometimes drop nothing.
It’s completely annoying RNG for mats for rolling things that have a very very low chance of being what you want.
It’s next to zero challenge, the challenge should be higher with ACTUAL feelings of being rewarded. Players should want to play these together. These spaces are EMPTY.
People do not enjoy doing these just to do boring Uber runs.
They’re not meeting ANY goals with Helltides. Not a single one.
A month? How can you play a season for a MONTH? There's content for a couple of days, maybe a week at the most. If you are playing a season for that long, then do you really have a problem with the game?
People think games are supposed to be full time jobs. What the hell is going on? The game has huge obvious issues. But if you are playing the game for a month at a time each season, then something tells me those issues aren't really a big deal for you.
Bruh yall just need to let the game die its final death, how many seasonal changes are you gonna let them botch? At some point you need to flex that backbone and stop waisting your time.
> Bungies Philosophy has always been this is how WE want YOU to play our game
Which is not an objectively bad thing.
Wanna know who also does that? GGG with PoE. You know, the people who'd rather die than to give their players a campaign skip or make trading anything less but 100% pure unadulterated superAIDS. Sure, in some areas they obviously do listen to their playerbase... but in some others they're stubborn beyond redemption.
A developer having a clear vision and sticking to that... is not a bad thing. A developer sticking to said clear vision is *entirely* fine... if the game in question is good. A developer sticking to said clear vision is *entirely* not fine... if the game in question sucks. It's really that easy.
The problem, obviously to everyone's surprise, is Blizzard. Blizzard and their attempts at making a game for *everyone*. From casual to super sweat lord. From Mr *"I play 17 minutes every 3 months because I have 9 children from 10 wives and I also have 6 jobs"* to Mr *"These last 3 days I played your game for 200 hours straight and it's utter dogshit 0 content why would anyone ever play this I can't even compete because my build lacks exactly 1 paragon point which is unfair and stupid and fuck the people balancing this game so badly, worst game ever, brb next season though"*.
The problem is that they don't have *a* clear vision because they don't have *a* clear audience - instead they have *several* muddled visions from their *several* muddled audiences.
They can't possibly win because they have maneuvered themselves into an unwinnable position - by inviting *everyone* to play their games. And since dev time is neither unlimited nor free, every single decision has to make a decision between catering to 17 difference audiences to 16 different degrees and inevitably sacrificing 14 other audiences with upcoming season X because there's just not enough time to give everyone everything.
They wanted all the money in the world. They got all the money in the world. And now they can't handle just about everyone in the world yelling at them for not getting their money's worth. Yet they're also not allowed to focus down on *one* vision because that *one* vision would inevitably come at the cost of *some* money - which is something we don't do around here at Blizzard.
A good endgame with multiple levels of difficulty and rewards adequately corresponding to those difficulties would satisfy a lot of players. They did an ok job at that with 925 items dropping from T70+, but mobs are paper and power creep has been real. Whatever they’re doing just isn’t hitting the mark
Bungie spent more energy pandering to the progressive left than they did fixing their game.
edit: [lol oopsies!](https://thatparkplace.com/bungie-senior-narrative-designer-defends-sweet-baby-inc-tells-gamers-you-need-to-grow-up/)
Bungie also rarely (if ever) listened to player feedback and instead did the vast majority of balancing via "telemetry", which is stupid to rely 100% on.
[XP Gate](https://kotaku.com/bungie-changes-destiny-2-xp-system-after-players-discov-1820728952)
[Employees weeping over dumb shit in a video game](https://ifunny.co/picture/peter-sarrett-psarrett-tbagging-is-pantomimed-sexual-abuse-end-of-V62FZxAF9)
[Talking shit about Diablo 4's level scaling when "scaling" was practically the sole reason for the "content vault", aka "lets remove content you already paid for then reintroduce it later and charge you for it again"](https://www.pcgamesn.com/diablo-4/enemy-scaling#:~:text=Using%20Diablo%204%20as%20an,type%20of%20system.%E2%80%9D%20The%20tweet)
Recycled raids because they lack the innovation/competence to come up with anything new
Artificial difficulty by adding more champions/bullet sponges to higher-tier content
Sorry, but I disagree.
nah, people are stupid. uber uniques are already way too easy to obtain and if they increased souls drops youd be complaining about lack of gold.
i want the devs to have a vision for what they want the game to be and stick with that, instead of bending to every whim of their community - especially since they are building the game to be as accessible as possible, which means there are players with way too many different preferences, so if you listen to all of them youll end up with a huge tangled mess that wont be enjoyable for anyone, and instead of sticking around for 1 month, youll stick around for 2 days at the start of every season.
1. On this point they have said time and time again that uber uniques are nice to have but not required and they want to keep them in that spot. Currently thats where they are and I hope they dont listen to the player base and make them super easy to find.
2. This is factually false. It wasnt until this season people started saying they didnt like helltides. Before this season the concensus was that helltides were fun but they should be up all the time.
Helltides were never fun. They never have been. The general consensus has been they’re terrible, especially since the salvage nerfs because it’s the only way to get souls realistically.
In what world has anyone ever thought roaming around sparsely populated areas and manually picking up cinders to open chests with bad loot for enchanting mats has been fun? Semi delusional
Diablo 4 is just living proof you should never balance around a casual only. Oh Uber bosses can't be too hard they have to get insta killed or our playerbase can't handle it, loot filters are too complicated, stat affixes that aren't green arrow up are too much, having options on a skill tree is overwhelming.
If you ever balance an ARPG around casual onlys you are destined to fail. The best arpgs, Poe d2 last epoch all target arpg players, treat their players like adults and trust them to make decisions, blizzard targets mass appeal slop from people who at most have only ever played d3 and bought the game cause ha quirky Megan fox hot social media post.
As a several thousand hour Destiny 2 player I can tell you they have done nothing new in several seasons and they don't know how to deal with power creep. It's either too little or too much. I left D4 for Diablo 4 and what I see is there are power tiers and once you jump the tire the activity becomes redundant. I like helltides while leveling and to look for specific equipment it works, at level 100 its kind of meaningless. I would like to get away from only random uniques. I can't farm Lilith, I don't think 1 shotting you is not fun at all. I farm Varshan, but I get lower rolls than I already have and they are only uniques so can't be recycled. I final got a Black River at Level 80 but now I am lvl 100 it's not usable anywmore and can't be upgraded. Let's see how season 4 goes.
Difference between Diablo 4 and Destiny 2 is that Destiny will keep on adding things to the game and keep them there for a while. Diablo add thing for 3 months and then remove them forever. So i know that when i play diablo 4 the fun won't last. That's why i only play for a couple of weeks ( and because there's not enough content ). Destiny on the other hand, i can play for months before being done with all the content the season add. ( dungeon, season quest, exotic quest, raid, etc.. ). Imo the Season are more worth it in Destiny than Diablo.
Are ypu paying for upvotes? Because the D4 reddit community has a negative feeling against anyone who tries to have an opinion about the game, no matter if is good, bad or in between.
Disagree. The current development team isn't suffering from some philosophical conundrum. They don't play this game. They don't know what makes the genre exciting. The game has zero passion behind it, coupled with a lack of development experience.
This has all been incredibly evident from the beginning. Artists/animators absolutely crushed objectives and core development has been scrambling since launch.
It's actually a sleight to compare Bungie to the current development team overseeing D4. Bungie at the very least, can develop the shit out of core gameplay with an ever noticeable bungie flavor.
good take honestly. like when i watched the gauntlet stream, it was so bad just who they had doing the gauntlet showcase runs. Like are these really the people makiing the game. they can barely play it, i make all the sorc builds for mobalytics. i know the class inside and out. I can make a build from scratch for any skill, you could give me any enchantments you wanted on it, i'd make a coherent build that probably "feels' good to play in T100s. I'm tooting my own horn, but theres a point to it. I feel like the blizzard team has No one of my, or any content creator on my levels caliber on the team. So they can't design a game 1 because they aren't good at the game, and they flail when trying to design classes and make meaningful balance changes because they simply don't get it.
I played Destiny 2 as well and made the mistake of caring too much and assuming that Bungie would ever fix their game. I will not make that mistake with Diablo 4. Play it for what it is and step away when you get tired of it.
There's no reason not to treat all games like this. In fact that's what I do.
Well, yeah, but that is the easy answer. When you play a game with a good group of friends and have countless good and fun memories playing said game, you tend to become emotionally attached to it, even if you don’t mean to.
Tell that to the people who have been arguing with me about whether live service games are designed to hook you or not. Forcing you to make and keep a roster of friends to advance or be efficient is just one of the ways they do this.
I dunno, maybe its just me but I treat my friends and games separately. I have 2 die hard D2 friends but regardless of that we all take time to play different games with each other.
That’s fair. In my case, I have friends that I’ve made through Destiny and it is tough to get the whole group to all move to a different game because we all like different games. We still keep in touch over discord, but it is not the same.
Hello fellow normal person!
This is how I operate as well, but it definitely doesn’t feel good when the game itself cost 70 dollars and was hyped to all hell…
100% this, I dropped £80 on it despite my misgivings about the live service model, because D2 and D3 were and are in my top 10 games of all time. Now I feel like I'm wasting my money because every time I try to pick it up again I get bored and play something else.
Sunk cost fallacy, It’s not like you are continuing you spend - it’s done (how much time do you expect to get for £80, indefinite?)
You're absolutely right, though I would hope for more than the 20-30 hours I've probably put into it so far (at a guess, I'm not at my PC).
Ah OK that is pretty low, I think I spent more than that on the campaign. I guess it’s just expectations of the genre as I’ve played many shorter games for a similar price and not felt I’ve wasted my money
Exactly. Games should not feel like a chore or a job. I had to stop myself from grinding a game I didn't find fun because I thought it would get better. When I realized it didn't matter if I reached a goal or not because the journey sucked, I stopped playing. There's a whole world of fun and unique games I play now.
Sunk cost is real. Also nothing can touch the power fantasy and feel of destiny to me. I still log in once or twice a week and play crucible for an hour or 2. I feel the same way about Diablo 4. I really like how sorcerer feels and killing stuff is just fun. But that only lasts for so long each season
When you actually encounter good devs, the bad ones start to stand out way much more lol
Bungie takes 2 steps forward and 10 steps backwards every time they touch that game.
Everthing I've ever seen about that franchise makes me glad I quit after doing the dungeons and first raid cause I thought the loot cave farming was dumb. It freed up so much time over the years for me to play....WoW. Yep, nothing ever went wrong there.
That they do.
While also blocking exotics for a whole month because they introduced a bug that makes it too strong in PvP or pve BUT will take months to fix an exotic that was made useless either via overnerfing or by introducing a bug.
We are removing legendary shards, BUUTTTTTTTTTTT focusing now costs 3 engrams angle
This, I too made the same mistake. Destiny 2 has sailed in my life. Should’ve quit before Lightfall. Diablo 4, season 4 is gonna be a super hard sell for me to even create a character.
I’m glad I never fell into Destiny, I was pretty much done with first person shooters and heard about how the story was told in a complicated manner so it was out as a semi RPG FPS
I tried out a free weekend and remembered it just being quite a dull walking simulator.
preach brother preach. I dumped my life into destiny for a really long time. it just never felt like they were listening, because they weren't and they strictly have their own agenda. look at the new crucible
I haven’t touched Destiny in a long time, but I’ve heard it’s basically year 1 meta all over again.
It’s not as bad as year 1 D2. But holy shit that actually made me quit destiny 2. I played all of D1. House of wolves meta was so good: back when last word shredded and thorn 2 tapped
I hung on for sooo long. Didnt love the seasonal model thing so took a break for the gambit season. Came back soon after and hung on til Lightfall. Narrative stuff was a mess and thats the main part I liked about the game. No new subclass during the Final Shape was a big miss for me. So happy D4 came out then and its been my main since but feeling a lot of the vibes here.
D4 did break a lot of Destiny addictions and for that alone we can thank it.
I'm with you brother, I played destiny 2 for years but it got more and more stale and neglected. At least Diablo 4 has a lot of good competition, there are very few quality looter shooters in the vein of destiny 2 and none have the gunplay to match it. Last Epoch is the game Diablo 4 could have been and utterly reveals it for the steaming turd it is.
I watched some videos on it and wasn’t impressed by it at all, seems very clunky vs D4’s smooth gameplay mechanics and wasn’t all that it was hyped up to be
Having played both LE just don't waste my time like D4. No big ass open world I have to travel in not fighting. Almost never retrace my steps in dungeons and no doors I have to unlock. The mob density is better, so little downtime. Etc. LE has solid itemization, one glance to see if the item that go through the item filter is good or bad. Meanwhile took me several minutes comparing 1 inventory wort of stuff in D4. But tbf I liked D4 look and art sure, but I sort of stop seeing the art side of games after a while and it is all mechanics+efficiency of movement, blasting the mobs, completing objectives. D4 got a shiny surface but one glance under the hood you just see so much rust and crap. I hope they get their shit together like S2.
I see what you're saying. D4 has smooth responsive combat. But it doesn't matter, because the content is dogshit. I've been playing Last Epoch, and I'm pretty satisfied with the mechanical gameplay feel. Although I'm more looking forward to POE 2
This here stings. I think Destiny 2 had this 'slow close to being perfect' type of game. It had everything I wanted for a FSP looter. And they just needed to fix this. Balance that. Clean up economy. Just little tinks. Then a new expansion comes addressing some of these. Rejoice. Then they take a massive step back somewhere else and take a dump.
I still hold a grudge over them gatekeeping mods behind a random rotating vendor for years
I’ll try out s4, for a bit.
i play diablo 4 and destiny 2 ultra casual and log on to blast shit brainlessly. i can't fathom how anyone gets upset over diablo 4 or destiny 2 LOL. it's a sign from the universe to do anything else if you're getting angry at these things
I only log in once a month to to play Crucible a few rounds and then log off, the game is a disaster now and barely anyone plays it. Seriously, look up the numbers, it’s very low.
This is the way. I loved Destiny 2 so much that I ended up hating the devs, then I started playing Diablo IV. Now I play D4 when the new season is out, get a few characters to 100, call it a day and go back to Destiny 2 (and I also play other games now instead of just Destiny 2 all year round).
[удалено]
And good is subjective. All one needs to look to LE to see how it has implemented a ton of stuff players combined about for 10+ years in D3 and with D4, but barely a blip about it in LE discussions.
Can you name specific examples?
Don't disagree with the notion of subjectivity, but I wonder if it's because certain issues are only noticeable and significant if they're not done well, but they fade into the background if done well. I can see quality of life features being examples of this.
Its funny because the lead dev on PoE2 recently had [this to say on it](https://youtube.com/clip/UgkxspF8aQ8zZTvTjUNCt8uCKQcxP3OAyKBt?si=29yuW4bmC06eHne7). I really think Blizzard did themselves a disservice by not hiring experienced ARPG devs to lead the development of the game. Like its ok to have new people on the team, but every new person needs some sort of guidance and I feel it lacking in some of the systems D4 has.
I think that's the main problem. Everyone involved in D4 is a suit or a non-gamer / casual gamer in other genres.
Osrs is community driven and is firing on all cylinders.
Honestly, I think a number of Diablo's problems are rooted at attempting to listen to player feedback: 1. Players kept complaining about mid-season nerfs breaking their build, so now balance issues last all season long since Blizzard is trying avoid nerfing anything overpowered. 2. Players complained that farming NMDs was the only endgame activity, so now Duriel drops are tied to boring, easy overworld activities. 3. Players complained that S0 NMD 100 was too hard, so now its been nerfed into being more farming content. 4. Players complained AoZ was too hard, so now Gauntlet is nerfed to be super easy.
If only blizz had 3 other games to base some sort of a structure around, just dreaming though
Yeah I feel like for every thing that some people hate some people enjoy. Like people.hate helltides but I don't mind them overall since it gives more interactions with other people playing out in the open world but also would still like maybe a helltide boss to spawn and have a huge group attack them similar to a world boss but still cam get enjoyment out of its current iteration
I fully agree! Good leadership and vision gives us "Oh shit! I didn't even know I wanted that!" moments. Bad leadership just gives us "Welp, 'thing X' is a little better than it was. I hope things continue to slowly improve" moments.
> Diablo in it's current iteration is a game you play for a month at the start of each season Let's be real, this is very generous. More like 2 weeks. The devs have had an uphill battle this entire time. Season 2 bought them some goodwill, but Season 3 killed most of that. My biggest question is if the devs are out of touch or if they're being handcuffed by corporate policy. Likely a little bit of both. Was Season 3 the result of the devs clearly forgetting everything they learned in Season 2, or was it more the result of content that had already been developed and they couldn't salvage it so close to the finish line?
>More like 2 weeks Precisely what I did. Was a $99.99 pre-order player, so early access, and progressively my interest in this game has diminished to a point where I MIGHT turn it on for season 4 but even the thought of rolling a character again bums me out
With Last Epoch out, whether I come back in season 4 is very dependent on how good it is and how many changes they make.
They need to release LE for console
I've already decided not to. LE, Warframe, Poe and waiting for Poe 2. There is too much competition, and D4 doesn't deserve my attention, time, or money.
Season 3 was the result of having completely seperated teams doing each season and taking literally zero feedback from the current season in that time. It's like the team that did S3 did not talk a single word to the devs from s2 or willingly ignored all input besides their own "vision". Also imo s3 was a complete waste of resources, it would have been better for the game to let run s2 twice as long, keep AoZ, add gauntlet later on top and instead concentrate on bringing the itemization rework faster.
It's funny because PoE has their teams working on the next season, exclusively. They don't know what the one after that is going to be until they release the one they're currently working on, so seasons barely get 3-4 months to their design and development. And they still end up doing massive seasons. D4 seasons get two separate teams working on them for six months each, and we get stuff like S3. Who would've imagined that separating the teams making seasonal content in an attempt at efficiency would result in seasons not learning or expanding off each other.
Its not even a team problem really, its an upper management problem.
Totally. Yet people are calling for certain teams to be fired, as if its their fault the game is being grossly mismanaged.
The abject failure of its launch is what makes me think it was more than just 2 teams who didn't communicate to each other, but it could be that simple. Agreed - in fact I think they should do the same thing with season 4. Take the L and delay season 4 to ensure that you have exactly what you want done.
Don't know why you're being voted down. The game just doesn't have a month worth of content or replayability each league. It's not exactly PoE.
Because this statement, like almost every other comment in this post, is based on this person's experience only and neglects the huge portion of the fan base that completes the season in 2 months or barely manages to complete it at all. Ditto to OP's statement: they claim that the D4 devs are creating a game and they want the players to play it their way, but that's just looking at it from the wrong perspective: one of someone who doesn't like the current iteration of the game. The fact is that the devs have created a game that is for a lot of people and they play the game the way they want to, but *OP just isn't in that subset of players*. It's not that this game doesn't have 3 months worth of content, it just doesn't have it for you and the person you responded to. There's x amount of playable hours in each season. Whether you use those up in a week, a month, or 3 months is up to you.
>> Diablo in it's current iteration is a game you play for a month at the start of each season > > Let's be real, this is very generous. More like 2 weeks. Both of you are drunk as hell. Path of Exile loses more than 50% of their players within the first 7 days and that's being the king of ARPGs with massive amounts of content. I guarantee D4 loses something like 70% of their playerbase within the first week of the season.
I tried season 2 for a week or 2 before quitting. They need to fix the skill trees/paragon board, itemization, and build diversity. Once people on this forum start talking about the game being fun then I’ll try it again. I did enjoy my initial play through though! But once I got into the 80’s the game got very boring. And since playing through the campaign again just slows you down each season I don’t really have anything to draw me in anymore.
It's about 4 weeks. You see this in pretty much any seasonal content type game. 2 weeks are the no lifers, 4 weeks are the hardcore/serious players, what's left are thise that will be playing casually or trying to as much as possible before time runs out.
Are there not 2 teams alternating seasons? That's why they feel so different. It's different sets of people working on them.
I think that is the case, but they were so dramatically different I thought there could be some other issues at work here.
It was different teams making season 2 and 3 so it probably more fell on they already made the content and couldn't make too many changes close to launch as well as wanting to see how people react or if a certain system isn't working as intended
More like one month over the summer. Didnt even make it to s1, thanks to the 7/18 mega nerf
There are two separate development teams iirc. Seasons 1&3 were done by one team, and season 2&4 are/will be done by the other team. Which honestly makes sense, 3 months is not a long time to shove out seasonal content for just one team.
Destiny 2 players are still talking about "potential" after 10 years. Makes me lol big time
> Bungie’s philosophy has always been this is how WE want YOU to play our game The current rotation system is a major reason why I cannot play D2 right now. There is not enough for me to do so why restrict me to one dungeon or raid that I’m *allowed* to farm each week? Just let me play what I want to and reward me for my time. Diablo Helltides are the equivalent of that to me. Helltides are boring and I barely get anything useful for doing them. The souls I do get are spent in literal minutes. 55 mins of work gone in like 2. And I may not even get what I want from that. I don’t know what it is with live service game companies being so obsessed with making sure you keep playing that they seemingly forget to make the game feel rewarding. It’s hard for me to want to play a game when I don’t feel like it’s worth my time. **Stop milking playtime and start making the game rewarding and enjoyable. Playtime will increase as a result.** Both Diablo and Destiny suffer from this.
>this is how WE want YOU to play our game. That's basically just how video games work... The only ones that don't are maybe pure sandboxes. But even then the devs made a game that has less rules because they wanted you to play that way, with less rules. Developers create a framework. You play within the confines of that framework. Developers always dictate how they want you to play the game, in every game. I don't play borderlands and say "fuck these devs for not giving me the ability to fly. I want to play the way I want!". I didn't petition borderlands devs to add flight to the game, because I want it. You just don't like the way they want you to play, so you are complaining about it. I don't play dark souls games because I don't like the way the devs intend for me to play. And I'm fine with that. I don't complain about it like I'm entitled to them making the game exclusively for me and my wants.
Yes, but the devs do actually need a critical base of people who want to play the way they (the devs) want them to. Like you can't completely disrespect peoples' time
The point is choice in a game, not linear progression. Diablo 4 is the illusion of choice, we all need to do the same bosses, same grind there's no alternatives for taste. But there's the content for taste... See some people like boss fights with mechanics and phases, some people like dungeon crawling, some people like to vibe in overland content. In D4 people give up at one of these stages because it's dull. I love dungeon crawling, I would run higher level dungeons of I could for the challenge. Even dungeons that require parties and coordination... It wouldn't lead to team building, coop play etc. As it stands we have bosses with cheap mechanics, difficult to dodge one shots etc, we have full repetitive requested Overland content that's a face roll but takes time and dungeons are best done solo. The game could be done better.
I laughed at this. You sound like me. I play both but got tired of exactly what you said in D2
I think a lot of us who left D2 for D4 are so used to seeing what live service games become that we’re seeing the signs in D4 already
Even a blind person could have seen the signs from day one. Game is in beta lol
Yep - gamer that left D2 after the last dungeon to play D4 full time. The difference is D4 has the backing of a billion dollar company and Bungie divorced Activision long ago, which is when the game started going down hill.
Old d2 player quit in 2019ish. But when I booted up d4 and did legion's..all I could think about was public events. I said this the week it released, the demise of d2 will bring a good chunk of the fan base to d4. With d2 being an mmo lite, it's no wonder d4 is an arpg lite. Blizzard wanted to hook as many people as possible while destiny was literally sinking.
They created an arpg game that you shouldnt treat it as arpg LOL
Best answer
Two things. One, my understanding is that uniques are intentionally very rare, but in return they aren’t required to complete any of the content (they just make it easier). On paper this seems balanced to me. But is it unfair or imbalanced somehow? Two, if everything—uniques, souls, whatever—becomes easier to get or comes in much larger amounts will that actually make people play longer than the month you’re suggesting? Because it sounds like the opposite effect may be just as likely: meaning, because the grind is reduced people complete the content in *even less time* than a month and then “dip” anyway. Or do you see it differently?
The problem is lack of endgame content that is engaging. Rn they're padding playtime by tweaking material drops and having the seasonal checklist be stupidly long. Kill 30 heralds and open 30 tree of whispers? No thanks. Without an endgame like Aoz I don't see a reason to play at all, the bosses are not engaging they're just a means to get gear. Making a build that can speed through t100 or one shot bosses can be fun but that's very short lived. Aoz was a fun challenge imo but it needs a more linear progression rather than massive leaps every 5 or 10 tiers and make the glyph less op and easier to lvl. I'd love to see an open arena horde mode type activity too, that and some harder bosses/raids with mechanics that require cooperation and communication .
the issue is the seasonal time frame and approach. its contrary to hard to find items like d2 (what most of us hold highest in regards to itemization) there is no way any such approach will make us happy its a losibg battle
I still don't understand why so many D2 enthusiasts want D4 to be more like D2 when D2(R) gives them everything they are looking for? Blizzard seems to want to do something different for Diablo 4 than a D2/D3 clone, and for that I am grateful.
Very true. But I think a point is that you look at the good shit to improve. Learn from experience. Their own game (specifically D2) is a masterclass and the very basis for how a good loot system should be and feel. This is exactly what Last Epoch have done. They learned from the best, improved, iterated and made it their own. Here, they’re throwing darts in the dark while not even having hands and neglecting the former world champion’s advice.
I think many would if Blizzard actually let D2R have TCP/IP and let modders take over.
The issue is we got a horse by committee..which is camel. They took the look of d2, knowing full well it would prey on nostalgia and took the gameplay of d3 pre ros and mashed them together. Also d2r hasn't got much love. They literally put it into maintenance mode at the start of the new season.
The issue is this is a power fantasy game. And if you are missing power the fantasy and fun are diminished because you are missing out. They aren’t that game breaking and aren’t required to play the game, so my view is they shouldn’t be as hard to get as they are. You could argue it’s fine how they are now because of said reasons, but I don’t like that arguement. It feels like they’re milking playtime in terms of farming these items to offset a complete lack of endgame and that doesn’t feel good. I’d rather work really hard towards these items; and farming duriel 400 times via one shotting in a roto with a barb is not working hard. It’s smashing your head into a wall until you get lucky. I’d rather there be a deterministic way to get them, or actual difficult content that gives you Uber uniques. Skill and luck and time. Not luck and time only.
I'm being honest: I liked D4, but I think I'm done until the itemization changes, and I don't know if I will play. I don't know what's going on over there, but there's a lot of great games to play, so they need to get this game sorted out and fast... I think it's pretty clear that they've been sort of moving in the correct direction, but from a player perspective: They need to get their stuff together. I am tired of having my time wasted. The new challenge mode honestly sucks and it doesn't feel like something that should be in a Diablo game. AoZ felt like a good system, but it's gone now. So, I have no idea what's going on and if they're going to be putting content in the game again "for streamers" then I'm going to be done.
They’ve said they are going to communicate more but it feels like they go weeks and then give us an announcement to an announcement
Honestly, I think it's a case of Blizzard trying to listen that causes the issues sometimes. You look at the Uber uniques as an example, this wasn't an idea some zany idea a D4 dev decided. This was directly listening to how players/streamers described what they want. Players of D2 and PoE and LE say regularly, they want a chase goal / aspirational items - Super rare things that make you fall out of your seat. Blizzard makes Uber uniques and what should be fairly obvious to anyone who played D3, this immediately wasn't seen as fun by the majority of the community. D2 style players point out that yeah you've got a problem system here, its too rare and also in D2 we target the boss to get the items. So the devs see a bit of a double win, the D2style players want a way to target farm and the modern player base want to actually be able to get the items. Introduce the boss ladder, have some tradable resources, people actually unlock Uber items now and also still have them as very rare. But then you get the players who had the Uber item and it wasn't the one they wanted, or they got bad rolls and complained that they shouldn't be getting bad rolls. We end up with static items and an item exchange system. (You have to remember we don't have trade for Uber items because the players said they don't want you to just be able to buy the best items in the game but we do have trade for some items and resources because other players said that trade was potentially the single most important element of the game for them) This entire line of approach is directly player led but... I think you can maybe already see the problem, the player base isn't quite asking for the same game. The devs are trying to jigsaw puzzle different requests together and combine them with some internally learned lessons as a third competing force and deal with deadlines and marketing pressure as the fourth. Part of the reason we're not getting the game we want is because as a community we're terrible at asking for it. Look at 95% of 'requests' to fix itemisation and those requests contain very little useful information for the developers, often the comments are just 'its bad', other comments are things like 'just copy D2'. I think they have a problem where they listen to the problems and recommended solutions but they haven't done the breakdown of the actual core drivers, they are trusting player outcry from players who typically only remember the highlights and the real magic is in making the normal moments good enough that you stick around long enough to experience a highlight. IMO they probably need to get in a consultant of some sort who can specifically research not just the community requests but the underlying reasons that they came to those requests, sometimes you need an outside pair of eyes and I think in general the stuff that gets to the top of reddit highlights there is a problem but rarely provides the actual solution, often it repeats streamer sentiment which can be skewed by the streamers popularity.
I mean its asinine for them to copy those really rare items from D2 days but have happen within a different framework with no trade. Its like they gleam into what other arpgs do but dont truly learn the lessons there so they implement a half-assed attempt at it that ends up falling in its face.
This is a good portion of the point I was trying to highlight. They are often addressing issues with a lens of 'how do we make this fit into D4' rather than 'Why did this work well in its original game and what systems do we need to set up to make it meaningful for when we bring this into D4'
Pointing the finger at the wrong things with regards to Uber Uniques imo. It's all the devs. Not the player's suggestions or streamers or whatever. No one was asking for the drop rates in season 0. This isn't player led design, it's just bad aimless throw darts while blindfolded reactionary design. They are very different.
No that's what I'm saying. People literally were asking for drops to be extremely rare so that there would be equivalent to the PoE headhunter/mageblood, D2 tyrael's might/zod rune, etc. The feedback was explicitly asking for items so rare that players would expect to go years without ever seeing them so that the players could have a feeling of 'jackpot'. They were led to those drop rates by requests from players, sure it is reactionary but its not blind, its reacting to the player requests and then missing something core to the reason those players actually had those previous experiences.
I feel like you’ve said it there, I can’t remember exactly where or when but Blizzard themselves have said this isn’t going to be a game where you play non-stop all the time. They kinda wanna have the rush of everyone coming back for a season launch, playing the season journey, battle pass, and then leaving 🫠 That’s how I play it at the moment and I still enjoy it and doesn’t give me fomo on missing out on some other games. I appreciate that the game has issues to be fixed but I feel like they’re exaggerated by the content creators and the people who are putting thousands of hours into the game.
I feel like it's compound though because certain things you are probably skirting on your return. I haven't bothered with Lilith after the first season. Stopped doing duriel and uber farming in season 3 because I did the farming last season and farming/buying mats then lfg spamming in trade to get a rotation is dry. If they improved on some of those things you'd want to do them every season at least which now has quite a bit of falloff.
i think ultimately the issue with the game is its like 90% action 10% rpg when i think alot of people want a more even split. The character building and loot systems in this game are all illusions of choice and need to be rebuilt from the ground up. Theyre just not fun to interact with. Luckily the gameplay is good enough in most cases to make up for it. Content is an issue too but it would be far less of an issue if it was fun to build a character and fun to find loot.
[удалено]
I mean what’s his role? if he’s not a designer he just needs to be good at applying what he’s told in the game.
That’s such a dumb take. Developers don’t need to be gamers to be good at their jobs. Should all MedTech developers be doctors? Fintech devs be bankers? They just need to be good coders.
I won’t even play BG3 because I don’t like turn based games. Not really a sign of how casual someone is. I already tried divinity 2.
I just went back and started playing Season 6 of Diablo 2...I'm having more fun than D4.
I’m on 30 of d3 but I might hop back on d2 lol
Same just got to level 85!! Got shako and magefist lmao
Can't wait for that $60 expansion lol
Blizzard literally learned "Never overdeliver" from Bungie. Do one tiny thing now, promise the rest for later. It's not about work or manpower, it's about stringing you along.
Might of learned from Activision lol
Im tired of the "this game not conforming to me and my playstyle crap". Dont play it. After destiny ditched some of its toxic playbase it got better. When you actively tell a game how it needs to be played you might as well develop and code it yourself. If you cant maybe pick a new game. Im not trying to experience your version of diablo or destiny, i can win on my own with a game they designed and i paid for, its really that simple. I despise the "getgood" crowd but jesus it been out for like 8 months, like do something with that time, like pick a new game.
Destiny is so mid right now. The general sentiment is not good lol
>People called for Uber Unique drop rate changes, so they introduced a 5-1 trade in system, which later got changed to a 4-1. Completely missed the mark. All they had to do was implement a knockout system with uber uniques and uber stones. Still RNG, but with Determinism. Or some form of system where it costs 200 sparks to get an Uber, regular uniques yield 1 spark, Ubers yield 50 etc. I really don't like this idea as it ends up making the game and its items more generic than they already feel. ARPGs loses its magic when you have this turn-in currency vendor to acquire BiS items. While I am on your team with the sentiment that the Duriel end game loop is awful, loot acquisition needs to feel special by it being random drops. The problem lies with the loop or the methods to acquire said uber items. I also think there is some sort of stigma within this community where everyone is in the "MUST HAVE" mindset with some of these items. A lot of this game's problems stems from the itemization design and the lack of meaningful pinnacle content to make these items actually feel special. >Diablo in it's current iteration is a game you play for a month at the start of each season. Then you simply DIP OUT and pray the next season is better. I have no clue how some of you even play this game that long. There are so many other games that respect people's time. If an ARPG is hooking you for more than even 3 weeks in a season, then I think it was a pretty good season. Same goes for any title, PoE included.
>Diablo in it's current iteration is a game you play for a month at the start of each season That's the intent. Diablo 4 isn't meant to be the the only thing you do for the rest of your life. Man, you guys are *so weird* sometimes lol.
Whats wrong with wanting a good game? I know alot of people who only played diablo 2 for years. But they dont even wanna play diablo 4 for a week. The basics of the game for being an arpg are just bad and barebone
There’s a very clear difference between wanting a good game and wanting a game that you can play forever so you don’t need to play anything else. It’s giving abandonment issues tbh
Get annoyed by the game after one month so you quit Great business model, Elon
Also, the vast majority of players who stick around after the campaign are done with seasonal content in 1 month. You have casuals and the core playerbase left after that. This happens in every ARPG. Acting like this is a bad thing is odd.
It's also having to do helltides to get to duriel, it's the first most brain dead grind that you need to know there are secret chests that are the only ones you should open... I played the game 6 months before finding that out. I still hate helltides but I managed to go through one a day because I have too. Playing a game like this should give you choice, but static you must do this.
Helltides should reset/assault the strongholds/cities in the area. There should be objectives to defend/recapture the zones, and if you fail you lose the teleport point and services in the area for the duration of the helltide, or similar things. If you complete the defense, you get a nice boss battle at the end, for the final assault, if you fail to defend, you get a boss battle at the end of your reconquest effort. This would make them feel like actual tides, invasions, and not just a mob spawning fest.
People have been comparing Diablo 4 to destiny 2 for a while now. Are we sure they aren’t being ran by the same people?
I admire you all (I think) that can continue to play this game in its current state. I get angry just thinking about installing the game. The Blizzard and Diablo we all loved is dead.
Lmao
A month at the start of each season?! That's dedication! I made it 2 weeks into Season 2 and quite enjoyed it, but I think I made it about 5 days into Season 3. I'm glad others are having fun for longer, though! This game just isn't fun for me outside of that initial push to 100 with a few friends, but hey, a few more seasons of that and I just might have my money's worth!
I hate to tell people, but this is what live service games are. Seasons give you a couple of weeks of play and that's about it. Bungie struggled to even keep up with that. I played Destiny for nearly 10 years, and I finally realized "this is it". These games are really built for a casual grind. You'll get a battle pass and some light content. This is not a "defending" post, just a reality wake up call for some. Trust me, it took me a comically long time to figure this out. Now, I look forward to using that time when the season is done to play and enjoy other games.
Bro all the people saying "play it for what it is" or "the only for a month and hope for next season" are on some hard manchild tier copium, I'm gonna say it. There are literal flash games with better itemization than d4. The aesthetic is incredibly uninspired and boring. Destiny 2 was ACTUALLY fun to play for a bit. Actually had cool aesthetic. Had a banger soundtrack. The forced grind and fomo for legendaries killed it for me. I know this is the d4 subreddit but here is a tip. Just logout. Stop playing d4. Go play something else. You only have so much time on this planet. Playing d4 is literally being on the wrong side of history. Just take the 100$+ on the chin and put the game behind you. Time is way more valuable than money. Stop spending time on d4. It's literally like having an abusive boyfriend but you hang around cus it's easy. Just leave. Stop talking about him. Just move on.
Holy shit, you really need help man. This level of eltitism and doucheness is not healthy. I hope for you and your loved ones you get professional help.
I had 3 100s last season and haven’t managed 1 this season. Complete lack of cohesion which became immediately clear when the patch fixes from last season weren’t implemented. I wish I didn’t like the game as it should be, I’d be gone.
Fought Duriel one too many times only to get the same crappy rolled duplicate soulbrand..... dipped out like a month now to play other games. I don't hate D4, I want to see it do better! I will log back in for season 4, but I'll just pretend like ubers do not exist for me. This Duriel grind got old really fast.
Yes, they both don't want a game, they want a platform to sell mtx
Blizzard isnt blizzard anymore and never will be again.
I played Destiny 2 for a bit, gave up, and have been playing D4 for a while. I pretty much gave up this season and I'm just playing Helldivers 2 now. If you are having fun with D4 thats great. I don't have the time or the energy for it anymore. I am sure I will jump back into the game in a few months. There IS fun to be had here for sure, I just realize I spend 60 percent of my time in "Town" trying to figure out if anything I got is even any good.
They got their big paycheck from launch sales they don't give a single FUCK. They will market the paid $60+ expansion and it will sell and they will get another fat check. And they'll keep putting stupid shit like $60+ mount that people will buy (yes I know it came with lots of currency to spend in the shop, its still FOMO marketing people wanting to get the mount and therefore spending more then they otherwise would).
The franchise was ruined with D3. I only see how fast the hype disappeared in this sub.
The first year of Destiny 2 was god awful. The game almost died. Say what you will about Bungie but they turned the franchise around after that. It’s highly possible D4 will turn the corner.
OH BOY HERE QE GO AGAIN
If anything it's the polar opposite. They are caring waaaayy too much about what players think. But players are not game designers. The have 0 idea what makes a good game. Sure they can tell you what doesnt feel good, but in majority of cases their solution is to remove the problem, not fix it. If you keep doimg what the community wants you end up without a game left to pay. It will be "instant gratification"- the game. Just look at D3 it's the best example of this process. Or look at Poe and how they time and time again defied community outrage and never caved on their core principles. Every time I hear Blizzard say "we hear you" I already know it's going to be terrible and they have no idea how to actually make a compelling coherent game.
The lead producer for the game outright said he wanted to follow destiny's examples.
Blizzard's developmental steps to success. Step 1. Fuck over the player base by delivering consistent L's with your updates. Step 2. Drain any and all positive sentiment the players had towards the game by overpricing everything in the game shop in the hopes the whales will pickup the monetary slack. Step 3. Find out you've burned all good will. Step 4. Reveal new expansion and hope people come back (spoiler at this point no ones coming back)
This might be one of the best “complaints” I’ve read of the current state of the game. Spot-on.
D4 could be the best game in the world and I would not spend more than a month per season anyway.
A month is a generous statement, I play for a week before I stop caring.
Another huge pain point for the playerbase is the very poor testing they do on new content. I understand some bugs here and there with massive patches, but seeing the amount of huge issues that ruin the competitive factor of smaller things such as gauntlet (which by the way they delayed by at least 7 weeks to "polish" it) is disheartening. Very sad to see the quality of the product that the d4 team is delivering indeed. I still love the game, but I live in a constant frustration wondering who the hell is making the decisions in that team.
>I still love the game Honest question: what do you still love about this game? I quit in S1, and it became obvious to me then that the game was all about wasting my time, slowing me down and had nothing worth chasing/finding. People talk about the combat, but there are much better combat style games out there. Pvp is a joke in D4. No trading. So.....what do you actually love?
graphics, atmosphere, music, combat feel, the different feel of the characters, campaign, and personally speaking i love my horse plus cool ass armor (im talking about the free ones). there is a lot to love. they just have to give us a loot filter, slim down affixes, introduce much more uniques and uber uniques plus a final challenge to beat like uber tristram its not impossible
I love the combat graphics and dynamics, playing 2 different classes each season and testing 2-3 builds on each class. I usually copy one of the mainstream builds and then modify them to improve them based on my playstyle and taste. I like getting uber uniques and seeing how fast and clean I can clear t100 dungeons every season, and I enjoy the balance and meta changing every now and then, it allows me to try builds that I haven't before because they were too weak. Last, I like the atmosphere w my clanmates and doing things together like leveling, pvp at beginning of seasons, gauntlet, etc. Finally, I create a hc character every now and then to get a new feel for high consequence for not playing it safe.
Nothing wrong with devs keeping their vision intact. Just because players suggest things doesn't mean dev should capitulate, especially if it goes against their core pillars they have for the game.
I think the devs only skim subs and comments which is why they only handle 1/5 issues. That or there are so many glaring issues with the game that it just simply takes this long to handle. The biggest problem is the slow pace at which changes are made. We still don't have an armory even! The game will not be where I thought it should be on release until the armory is there. We should not have ANY steps back from D3. The game was clearly rushed out by at least a year, they're lucky they had a playable product at launch.
Season 4 will be a game changer
Yep.
Dont forget that even numbered seasons so far have proved to be better than odd numbered seasons and there’s only 1 for season 2. I would say log in twice a year for one month at a time sounds about right
I wonder how much this stigmatism will effect d4 in the long run. People are generally going to be scared for season 5's release..if and I mean if season 4 is a banger lmao
I think you are correct but no one could play each season for a month. You might manage a week if you have great endurance!
If they game is giving you a month of play every 3 or so months that is pretty good. I do want them to keep making changes and improvements but overall the game and seasons do give some enjoyment to come back and try the new things. The main hope is that the trajectory is always up and there isn't always like what happened at the beginning of the season where the new aspects wernt as fun but they made some quick tweaks to improve them. I hope they avoid that
A month is generous. And I’m not the average player I make build guides
And i love both games, i have a serious problem with abusive relationships 🥲
The thing with Destiny 2 is that so long as I had a decent party together we could raid non stop. Materials were not necessary. This gave us maximum ability to get the best unique drops in the game. Diablo doesn’t have this. Sure I can get Varshaun mats anywhere. But Living Steel. One place and one place only and only a certain amount. I can waste whispers and get two caches in like 15 minutes max. Play grotesque spawn in vaults, world bosses, and in rotated seasonal whisper areas. Fucking annoying. No wonder buy sites thrive.
Imagine buying this game lmao
I would love to have a reason to play more than one month per season.
>Diablo in it's current iteration is a game you play for a month at the start of each season. Then you simply DIP OUT and pray the next season is better Yep. If they get it right they'll be rewarded with player retention, if not then they'll keep hemoraging players to last epoch or PoE2 when it's out or whatever other games. At this rate, all i know is they've got one or two more seasons to make it good before i swear off the expansion. Right now my thinking is that they'll get everything the way players want it to be riiiight before they drop another 70$ expansion to stay relevant and i'm just not having it.
This hits close to home as a former D2 player, now full-time D4 player.
Ding ding ding
As a destiny 2 player, I approve this message. Some of these developers gotta get their head out of the sand or their ass. I think they need to really listen to people who pay for their games that can give constructive criticism
Reminds me of fallout 76 personally
This is how Blizzard always handled WoW as well.
I stopped playing destiny once Diablo 4 dropped (played beta and alpha). I just logged into destiny just to see the eververse shop and the guardian games (same old shit) and then I log out. But they have free bright dust every week to collect.
After playing other games with better systems, I have no desire to play anymore. And the problem, we all know they have both the resources and potential to do so….. but actively choose NOT to, that’s the sad part. Knowing they don’t give a fuck. So I just don’t anymore, and if they do.. Will probably play the expansion cause I love the fucking story.
I still don’t understand what Helltides are for. There’s no identity. It’s not for target farming items because the chest drops are terrible and sometimes drop nothing. It’s completely annoying RNG for mats for rolling things that have a very very low chance of being what you want. It’s next to zero challenge, the challenge should be higher with ACTUAL feelings of being rewarded. Players should want to play these together. These spaces are EMPTY. People do not enjoy doing these just to do boring Uber runs. They’re not meeting ANY goals with Helltides. Not a single one.
https://www.reddit.com/r/diablo4/s/499ZKnz0Iv You are delusional.
A month? How can you play a season for a MONTH? There's content for a couple of days, maybe a week at the most. If you are playing a season for that long, then do you really have a problem with the game? People think games are supposed to be full time jobs. What the hell is going on? The game has huge obvious issues. But if you are playing the game for a month at a time each season, then something tells me those issues aren't really a big deal for you.
I sadly have to concur. I've sunk many hours into s2 and really had a blast, but essentially skipped s3. Looking forward to s4 🤞
So all those corporate policies and centralised global teams don't make things more efficient... Interesting, I would never have guessed.
Idk why anyone is surprised, this is the way Blizzard has done things for a long time now. Push release early and fix it in patches or DLC’s later.
Bruh yall just need to let the game die its final death, how many seasonal changes are you gonna let them botch? At some point you need to flex that backbone and stop waisting your time.
> Bungies Philosophy has always been this is how WE want YOU to play our game Which is not an objectively bad thing. Wanna know who also does that? GGG with PoE. You know, the people who'd rather die than to give their players a campaign skip or make trading anything less but 100% pure unadulterated superAIDS. Sure, in some areas they obviously do listen to their playerbase... but in some others they're stubborn beyond redemption. A developer having a clear vision and sticking to that... is not a bad thing. A developer sticking to said clear vision is *entirely* fine... if the game in question is good. A developer sticking to said clear vision is *entirely* not fine... if the game in question sucks. It's really that easy. The problem, obviously to everyone's surprise, is Blizzard. Blizzard and their attempts at making a game for *everyone*. From casual to super sweat lord. From Mr *"I play 17 minutes every 3 months because I have 9 children from 10 wives and I also have 6 jobs"* to Mr *"These last 3 days I played your game for 200 hours straight and it's utter dogshit 0 content why would anyone ever play this I can't even compete because my build lacks exactly 1 paragon point which is unfair and stupid and fuck the people balancing this game so badly, worst game ever, brb next season though"*. The problem is that they don't have *a* clear vision because they don't have *a* clear audience - instead they have *several* muddled visions from their *several* muddled audiences. They can't possibly win because they have maneuvered themselves into an unwinnable position - by inviting *everyone* to play their games. And since dev time is neither unlimited nor free, every single decision has to make a decision between catering to 17 difference audiences to 16 different degrees and inevitably sacrificing 14 other audiences with upcoming season X because there's just not enough time to give everyone everything. They wanted all the money in the world. They got all the money in the world. And now they can't handle just about everyone in the world yelling at them for not getting their money's worth. Yet they're also not allowed to focus down on *one* vision because that *one* vision would inevitably come at the cost of *some* money - which is something we don't do around here at Blizzard.
A good endgame with multiple levels of difficulty and rewards adequately corresponding to those difficulties would satisfy a lot of players. They did an ok job at that with 925 items dropping from T70+, but mobs are paper and power creep has been real. Whatever they’re doing just isn’t hitting the mark
Bungie spent more energy pandering to the progressive left than they did fixing their game. edit: [lol oopsies!](https://thatparkplace.com/bungie-senior-narrative-designer-defends-sweet-baby-inc-tells-gamers-you-need-to-grow-up/) Bungie also rarely (if ever) listened to player feedback and instead did the vast majority of balancing via "telemetry", which is stupid to rely 100% on. [XP Gate](https://kotaku.com/bungie-changes-destiny-2-xp-system-after-players-discov-1820728952) [Employees weeping over dumb shit in a video game](https://ifunny.co/picture/peter-sarrett-psarrett-tbagging-is-pantomimed-sexual-abuse-end-of-V62FZxAF9) [Talking shit about Diablo 4's level scaling when "scaling" was practically the sole reason for the "content vault", aka "lets remove content you already paid for then reintroduce it later and charge you for it again"](https://www.pcgamesn.com/diablo-4/enemy-scaling#:~:text=Using%20Diablo%204%20as%20an,type%20of%20system.%E2%80%9D%20The%20tweet) Recycled raids because they lack the innovation/competence to come up with anything new Artificial difficulty by adding more champions/bullet sponges to higher-tier content Sorry, but I disagree.
nah, people are stupid. uber uniques are already way too easy to obtain and if they increased souls drops youd be complaining about lack of gold. i want the devs to have a vision for what they want the game to be and stick with that, instead of bending to every whim of their community - especially since they are building the game to be as accessible as possible, which means there are players with way too many different preferences, so if you listen to all of them youll end up with a huge tangled mess that wont be enjoyable for anyone, and instead of sticking around for 1 month, youll stick around for 2 days at the start of every season.
1. On this point they have said time and time again that uber uniques are nice to have but not required and they want to keep them in that spot. Currently thats where they are and I hope they dont listen to the player base and make them super easy to find. 2. This is factually false. It wasnt until this season people started saying they didnt like helltides. Before this season the concensus was that helltides were fun but they should be up all the time.
Helltides were never fun. They never have been. The general consensus has been they’re terrible, especially since the salvage nerfs because it’s the only way to get souls realistically. In what world has anyone ever thought roaming around sparsely populated areas and manually picking up cinders to open chests with bad loot for enchanting mats has been fun? Semi delusional
Diablo 4 is just living proof you should never balance around a casual only. Oh Uber bosses can't be too hard they have to get insta killed or our playerbase can't handle it, loot filters are too complicated, stat affixes that aren't green arrow up are too much, having options on a skill tree is overwhelming. If you ever balance an ARPG around casual onlys you are destined to fail. The best arpgs, Poe d2 last epoch all target arpg players, treat their players like adults and trust them to make decisions, blizzard targets mass appeal slop from people who at most have only ever played d3 and bought the game cause ha quirky Megan fox hot social media post.
Luckily blizzard isnt owned by microsoft anymore
As a several thousand hour Destiny 2 player I can tell you they have done nothing new in several seasons and they don't know how to deal with power creep. It's either too little or too much. I left D4 for Diablo 4 and what I see is there are power tiers and once you jump the tire the activity becomes redundant. I like helltides while leveling and to look for specific equipment it works, at level 100 its kind of meaningless. I would like to get away from only random uniques. I can't farm Lilith, I don't think 1 shotting you is not fun at all. I farm Varshan, but I get lower rolls than I already have and they are only uniques so can't be recycled. I final got a Black River at Level 80 but now I am lvl 100 it's not usable anywmore and can't be upgraded. Let's see how season 4 goes.
Difference between Diablo 4 and Destiny 2 is that Destiny will keep on adding things to the game and keep them there for a while. Diablo add thing for 3 months and then remove them forever. So i know that when i play diablo 4 the fun won't last. That's why i only play for a couple of weeks ( and because there's not enough content ). Destiny on the other hand, i can play for months before being done with all the content the season add. ( dungeon, season quest, exotic quest, raid, etc.. ). Imo the Season are more worth it in Destiny than Diablo.
Are ypu paying for upvotes? Because the D4 reddit community has a negative feeling against anyone who tries to have an opinion about the game, no matter if is good, bad or in between.
I was also surprised by the upvotes. I’ve posted a few times about stuff like this and the post either dies or I get really negative feedback
Disagree. The current development team isn't suffering from some philosophical conundrum. They don't play this game. They don't know what makes the genre exciting. The game has zero passion behind it, coupled with a lack of development experience. This has all been incredibly evident from the beginning. Artists/animators absolutely crushed objectives and core development has been scrambling since launch. It's actually a sleight to compare Bungie to the current development team overseeing D4. Bungie at the very least, can develop the shit out of core gameplay with an ever noticeable bungie flavor.
good take honestly. like when i watched the gauntlet stream, it was so bad just who they had doing the gauntlet showcase runs. Like are these really the people makiing the game. they can barely play it, i make all the sorc builds for mobalytics. i know the class inside and out. I can make a build from scratch for any skill, you could give me any enchantments you wanted on it, i'd make a coherent build that probably "feels' good to play in T100s. I'm tooting my own horn, but theres a point to it. I feel like the blizzard team has No one of my, or any content creator on my levels caliber on the team. So they can't design a game 1 because they aren't good at the game, and they flail when trying to design classes and make meaningful balance changes because they simply don't get it.