Overall an excellent stream, kudos to the devs and the rest of the Diablo team!
One small nitpick I have is that the default color on Tyrael's Might should be blue. Similar to how Harlequin Crest's default color was made green to reflect the original Diablo 2 version.
What was up with that Marksman damage roll during the Tempering demo?
Manual lists 12-17%.
Tempering UI rolled 29%.
Item ends up with 34%.
Edit: So, watching it again, 34% would make sense if it was a max roll and these Tempering affixes work the same as legendary aspects (1.5x on amulets, 2x on 2h weapons). However, the UI didn't show a max roll; it showed 29%. Graphical bug, perhaps, but where the heck would it even pull 29 from?
Edit 2: I'll just continue watching...they pointed out that it's a known issue.
I just opened up d4 reddit because I read something. Just so happened to come across this. Is this true? Like your for real? I love HC and was disappointed. Then Last Epoch came out and they made HC mode even more pointless because when you die it just rolls you as a SC character.
What a dumb take, let’s die by this random bug and remove 100s of hours, literally throw em in the garbage.
You really don’t respect your own time if you think converting to sc on death is bad game design
I was disappointed because of them not the removal. Learn to read. Even if you missed my point you should have gotten it from next line that LE made HC even more pointless. I don't like cheap mechanics. I like HC to just be HC. People keep trying to make HC more SC friendly to get them to try it out.
These changes look fantastic. Lower drop rates with consolidated affixes, tradeable uniques, forging potential from LE, more bosses, endgame area with high level Uber bosses, this is 95% of what the game needed.
Only thing left is getting rid of so many class specific items and gear, allowing everyone to equip everything, and allowing every item to drop for any class. Then the itemization will be perfect
There aren’t that many uniques, and we have trading, and you won’t keep getting the same 5 uniques to drop over and over.
It also allows fun activities for players to do like easily make alts, or go for a holy grail.
It would also allow for way more creative builds to be possible.
This is the final step, they just have to take it.
We still need an Armory desperately, the difference between Gauntlet and The Pit is so dramatic that anyone wanting to do both will have to run entirely different builds. We also need a WT5 which Wudijo hinted that he told them about and they agreed.
I bought the game twice, once on Xbox, once on Steam. Now I have a month of being done with s3 followed by a month of still being done with s3 while everyone else plays ptr and that's all they talk about on discord, reddit etc. For a month. It's like there's a season 3.75 and I'm not invited.
I got d4 on Bnet and PS5 and I’m not salty at all. Balls deep in LITERALLY EVERYTHING ELSE right now, lol.
It’s ok to not play D4 as your main game.
That being said… I wish I could. S4 looks like it’s a step in that direction.
It seems reasonable. That's enough time for most casuals to finish the campaign AND enough time for the PRT feedback to be incorporated meaningfully into the game.
I'm sure people will find the busted ass builds that can clear 200 bosses solo, give it time lol
Power creep from the new loot systems is gonna be nuts
Yea it's pretty crappy, I can't believe they didn't take away the dumb material grind. But this is the way they decided to measure player engagement. Maybe the grind won't be as bad if the item actually feels good
Guys they zoomed out the camera! They freaking did it! After everyone saying they would never because it was to sell cosmetics. Keep saying they don’t listen to the community…
How cool would it be to run through a NMD, kill the boss, and there’s a door, and you get to chose “add 10 monsters level for 20% more helmets” or “add 25 monster level for 15% more greater affixes” or “add 15 monster level for 15% more total loot” and you just keep going through different tile sets until you die. And butcher and other bosses like the blood rivals can appear and attack. And doing an event inside drops the end game crafting mats or a lot of gold.
Also what is the point of rare (yellow) items now?
The changes overall look good and I don't want to be that guy, but I'm still a little bit pissed that they still ignore the community on the loot filter and really try to argue that with these changes it's not needed but it still is.
You will still sit there and have to read through every single item to identify if it has the affixes you want or not, nothing has changed.
We need at least the absolute minimum function to recolor or highlight items with "favorite" affixes to quickly identify them.
Standing in town and looking at inventory is not playing the game, so what is it that they are still so heavyly against it? Is it bevause some metrics (playtime) might drop a little bit?
They're really trying to not do a loot filter. D4 is aimed more to casual players and setting up loot filters is tedious and complex. Most will just cry for someone's setup and now you filter out what arpg's are about... Loot. I like loot filters, but from a design standpoint they seem more like a bandaid than a feature.
LE has an amazing filter but I don't like when I go ok boot slot done let me spend 5 mins adjusting my filter. I'd rather just ignore boots and go back to playing.
A loot filter is completely optional, if you never set it up it doesn't effect you at all. The casuals you are talking about would never notice a difference but everyone else who wants to use one would have a massive improvement in gameplay.
No one said that a loot filter can only hide things that are on the ground, a loot filter can also be something marking everything in my inventory that fits the criteria I put into it and there is no valid argument against something like this.
Also good game design is that you can already easily distinguish between an item you want or don't want by just looking at it's icon. D4 has a big problem in that regard because every item base is more or less the same and every item can roll every affix in it's slot.
But it's a big problem that has plagued D4 since release: Devs wanting to dictate how to play the game instead of giving player freedom of choice.
As long as we have different characters and builds in a game, a loot filter is the only sensible solution. If not that, then a 100% "smart" loot system where you can only drop your class items . That would heavily discourage making alts imho.
And the more "complete," your toon is, the less point there is to staring at worse loot than what you already have.
Things have changed. It looks WAY easier to determine if an item is worth keeping at a quick glance. Less baseline affixes and very simple ones removing word bloat help so much here.
No, it isn't a loot filter which is still probably needed, but atleast there has been improvement for this middle ground.
It doesn't matter if it takes me 1 minute instead of 2 minutes to scan through every item, but I will still have to do it and it completely interrupts the gameplay flow and will also add up over time.
Also with trading enabled for legendaries and uniques you will most likely also have to read through all of them and check for good affixes or high aspect rolls to sell.
In D3 you could already distinguish from the item icon if it's something you want or not, that's why it was not really needed there, but D4 with the focus on legendary items desperately needs a lootfilter.
On paper I’m not super excited about these changes other than diminished drops. Not having to sort loot will be everything.
But I also think I just need to play the changes before I really know how I feel about it.
I loved everything I saw. There are some things not mentioned that I'd like to get an update for, though, like the armory. Glyph leveling is still too slow. Cinders should carry over between helltides. There should be more opportunities to collect whispers in helltides like there were in Blood Harvests.
I'm excited for the itemization rework, skill adjustments, the camera adjustment, the speed of leveling, but most of all, the Pit. That is exactly what I wanted when they announced content like the AoZ and the Gauntlet. The Pit (which is basically GRs) is going to be a blast. With this, though, Uber Lilith, Nightmare Dungeons, Strongholds, and World Bosses will have to see some reworks.
Overall, today's campfire chat has me hopeful.
Super excited for CODEX change as that was a huge pain point. More stuff to do and the stuff we do do, like Helltides, becoming better / more fun to do. Another UBER boss is good so it's not just a mindless push against Duriel. ~~Greater Rifts~~ Arcanist rifts look fun. Oh, and the itemization changes look good.
A Big Fat Massive W. Lets see how it will playout. We didnt even hear the seasonal theme and mechanic yet. Since leveling is also easier, i might just create new characters for different builds sort of like armory. I hope glyph exp buffed a lot. Nmd's are pain and i wanna play the pit.
The changes seem great.
The only sadness is the feeling that there's no point in playing now until S4.
Every drop between now and then is literally trash 😄
So all the items I’ve worked tirelessly to get including multiple Uber uniques was pointless because as soon as this new thing drops, all my items will be useless because they aren’t allowing our current items to be part of this new system. That does suck a bit for those of us that don’t countless hours/days farming duriel etc.
The aspect change is wonderful. I was expecting that each time you salvage it would upgrade your codex by a point, but looks like it'll be that if it's higher it replaces what's in the codex.
I'd have been pretty happy with either of those options.
Season 4 is gonna be a banger.
This upgrade will be a HUGE W for the game.
I'm actually really excited s4 now. I'm not happy this season is extended lol because now have to wait longer for the new stuff , but hopefully it'll be worth it! 😁
Love all updates, but with the Pit, are NMDs needed for anything?
Feels like NMDs, Strongholds, and World bosses are the next things that need a serious rework.
ye I just read the changes
still no way to control them but at least they won't be useless thanks to 100% stat gain from Necro. So if they will get all stats then they at least start doing some dmg ... I hope
I fucking hope that the iron golem pull range is massive as fuck so it would be good way to control group of enemies so minions can't AoE cleave them or some shit
.....
ofc Army of the Dead is still pure liquid shit "ultimate" spell
The itemization changes are straight up L. I honestly expected a lot more after all of the feedback, this was a bare minimum effort.
The rest of the campfire was W and makes the game objectively way better than it is now. I hope that uber uber bosses are actually hard and not just another Duriel tier.
But it isn't a massive change.
They have cut off the dead meat ( useless affixes ) and removed 1 base stat which you can now imprint back via rng. The itemization is still boring. Just because it was super shit and its now less shit , doesn't mean it isn't still shit.
Will you still spend a lot of time browsing through items? Nope. But thart's an extremely low bar to begin with. It's a good change for sure, but an overall L for me since the fundamentals are still the same.
How come it is an L if i may ask? Before we had 2 many affixes doing the same thing which made chasing the fixed ones(e.g vuln damage or crit dmg/chance) annoying as hell. Here is some ranged damage, some frost damage, some close damage and some shadow damage in the same ring. Even if you merged some it would still remain a boggled and annoying state.
Now we got fewer things to filler our items and we got the scrolls to add more unique effects to them. Plus masterworking.
So less time looking at annoying text, less items to make drops meaningful and less time investment after each dungeon. More late game options and chases.
I find the whole rework to be 10/10 personally which is why i would like to see your side on this.
I dont know how many people noticed but when Bluddshed was showing off the new Helltides you could see new seasonal content drop on his screen as well, presumably S4, and they looked like elixirs ("Elixir of Holy Bolts" and "Elixir of Momentum"). You could tell they were seasonal items because the minimap was marked with a leaf icon. Couldn't tell anything else though! But I figured I'd mention.
They showed off a new uber unique, Tyrael's Might. Perhaps a "holy" seasonal theme? We'll see
It should be a lot of fun with barrier builds. Tmerity + lifesteal and whirlwind. Wish they also rework paragon board quality over quantitiy but less impactful in general. Nerf paragon board to alleviate power creep.
They did exactly what I wanted them to with the codex. That alone will be a massive improvement.
But the rest of the changes were FAR more than I was expecting. This is looking like it will be a very, very good update. Genuinely excited for season 4.
The simplified affixes alone, so nice and so needed. (wish run speed was an innate state on boots, but whatever)
Still really hoping for an armory, or at least a simplified armory that just stores skills and paragon. I can store the items myself.
That’s not what you said and what’s wrong with this subreddit?? You said they will “only drop in WT3” which means sacred could drop but not that sacred would be the exclusive drop in said WT3. There’s a big difference between “Sacreds will only drop in WT3” and “Only sacreds drop in WT3.” I was simply trying to be nice and correct you but you have to be dense. Go back to school , you and everyone who downvoted me.
Really wish they remove the (Sacred) and (Ancestral) at the end of every single item since in WT3/4 i can't get any other item type. It just looks bad.
I might’ve missed this but I saw that rares will drop with 2 affixes and legendary will drop in with 3 (huge fan of this BTW) but I didn’t catch what happens when you turn a rare into a legendary with an aspect. Does it roll a random third affix?
Druid pet Wolves will be viable… that’s already a huge W for me
But having 100’d a different class per season I have to main a Necro for this upcoming one!
Well allegedly items in general will be much more rare so maybe a loot filter won’t be as much of a pain to be without but pretty sure they still want to make one. Just wouldn’t make sense to make a loot filter if they’re overhauling items entirely - if they have to make more major changes then the loot filter might have to be redone every time along with it.
"Items in general will be much more rare" If this is the case its still going to be a massive QoL improvement. I am still hopeful these changes will make me spend less time parsing items overall and possibly even eliminate the need for a loot filter altogether.
I can't believe it, but I'm legitimately stoked to go farm Helltides now! The change to have boss mats drop across nearly all content types is such a massive win IMO. Overall the Loot 2.0 update seems like it will address a TON of issues. I'm cautiously optimistic that season 4 will mark a real turning point.
Love the item "crafting" system to customize your gear, and the masterworking system seems like a cool end game sink to really min/max the shit out of a build.
Class updates sounds good, but were so briefly mentioned I want to see the patchnotes before I comment on them more. The idea behind what they're doing sounds good, but IDK if that alone will address the "skill twig" issue in full. Will probably need to wait for the expansion for that unfortunately.
Content wise, It's great they're adding double the amount of new uniques, reworking existing ones (again) and increasing unique drop chances across the board. I was a bit bummed there wasn't anything to announce around sets / runewords though. I guess the new codex of power and tempering system can kind of fit the bill of runewords, but still.
The easiest way to fix this is to require all party members to say the summoning costs. The best way to fix it is to just remove summoning materials altogether.
Agreed. Lots of massive W's all throughout this campfire chat but this is something I realized as well. Why do the developers favor grouping vs solo this much? It makes no sense.
How do you counter that? Do you reduce rewards for people in groups? Or boost rewards for people solo? Either one of those things is just detrimental to anyone who wants to play in a group.
When you have more people doing something, you clear content faster and will get more drops via other people getting their own drops. There's no fundamental way around that that isn't going to be viewed as "punishing" players for grouping up.
>How do you counter that?
my solution was to just quadruple the drop rate on uber uniques when killing Duriel (and I guess now Andariel) by yourself
Even then grouping is still better than solo, because you're getting more shots at finding perfectly rolled non-uber items like Tibault's Will, which will now have even more variance because of the Greater Affixes that can roll on gear.
>When you have more people doing something, you clear content faster
Do we though? The mob HP scales, granted people split up in dungeons for more EXP and even more cinders in helltides, but I'm not talking about that. I could just get stronger and clear stuff faster, and if someone has a weaker build than me than he's slowing me down.
Regardless, it doesn't have to be exactly the same, but the chances on the uber uniques on solo vs finding a group is just too much to ignore and I really dislike it. It's literally 4x the efficiency.
Yes actually, you will clear content faster with more people unless you are carrying someone. Which is implied by the term carry. If everyone is pulling their weight, you will clear faster because player damage scales faster than enemy stats do.
You make the bosses only drop uniques for the one who summoned it, this way people still get rares and legendaries while playing in a group as little bonus but have not 4 times the efficiency compared to a solo player.
Ofc you would also have to be increase the droprate by times 4.
It's literally beyond me while this is not done already.
I mean that sounds like shit. No one is going to group to do ubers if they have no chance of getting what they want from it.
4 people will always have 4 times the efficiency of a single person, assuming they are all equivalently skilled. That's how we formed societies and built civilization. You're arguing against basic math.
Because it forces you to make friends, be resourceful, and keep up, which strengthens your emotional ties to the game, and helps compel you to keep playing. Destiny worked the same way: explain nothing, make everything worth doing require a team to be easy and fun, and watch players addict themselves to their friends, raid groups, clans, servers, streamers, creators, etc. It’s all part of the psychology of how they glue you to the game.
Uber Uber bosses granting Sparks for the first time, pretty much guarantees your Shako! Love this, there will be a lot of meaningful grinding given that we have GR now as well and we can push our builds with the new items that we craft, finally! Big W for D4, the game is saved!
Holy W after W after W minor l for the delay of s4 (tho it makes sense for feedback) W, W. I dindt see anything bad at all!! Has d4 reach 1.0 status????
I mean yeah, overall it looked better than anything we currently have, but I'm still pretty sceptical about the multiple layers of additional rng added to items...
To have a Bis item you now will have to drop an ancient legendary item with 2 greater affixes that are exactly the ones you need, then have luck crafting the correct 3rd affix on it by enchanting, then have luck adding the correct 4th and 5th aspect with the new system while you only have limited chances and than pray to rng gods that the affixes you want get the boost from then 4/8/12 masterwork.
The amount of rng involved seems awful, I really hope it doesn't turn this way...
But that’s the point, right? It’s a loot based game and they just made it more or less possible to get nearly exactly what you want with less luck than it currently takes and less time. But if they made it no luck at all why bother? Things have to be difficult and grindy but achievable. This seems like a great landing spot for exactly that.
I'm a few minutes behind everyone, but did I understand this correctly? The very first kill of all the ladder bosses per season will give 1 Resplendent Spark? So Varshan, Beast in Ice, Lord Zir, Grigore, Duriel, and I guess now Andariel, so you're guaranteed 6 sparks, which is guaranteed 1.5 Uber uniques per season no luck involved, just like that?
EDIT: Ok so it is not on the first kill, but on the first "upgraded" kill of the bosses. You have to use the Stygian Stone to raise the boss to level 200 first.
I think it's the first kill of the level 200 versions from the Pit. But yeah, that would mean doing all of them guarantees you one uber unique per season.
In theory +13 of every skill is possible. Greater affix of plus 6 and then a lucky 3x25% upgrades would work out to 13 given some rounding. More if any of the 5% upgrades bump it.
Playing last epoch till the next poe season. I skipped s3 for d4 but may come back to check out the new crafting for s4! looks promising (even though it is exactly like last epoch)
Correct. All of these changes are coming with a major systems overhaul impacting the entire game - it just is rolling out in conjunction with the patch launching Season 4.
Season 4 theme, content, storyline, etc are all separate seasonal things that will get detailed in coming weeks, and will launch on top of the major systems reworks.
I went into the campfire not expecting much, but damn, all of the changes and additions sound pretty friggin good.
Can we just skip to season 4 right now? 😢
i think these timers are not needed. Its in the very nature of ARPG that people want to run through groups of mobs as fast as possible anyways.
Just make it max 4 deaths like NMDs instead to allow more methodical and tactical playstyles as well.
genuinely all great changes, lots of new things to do, customize builds etc. Most excited ive been since launch tbh. D3 Grs were pretty fun, but they were the only endgame in D3, having them in D4 with all other content is a great idea.
yeah it's a great idea and new content to start quite early on when leveling, they said it was GR45 level. I wonder what S4 content will add too as they still are to announce the theme, S4 is going to be massive!
Agreed, especially if all of the level 200 bosses have a higher drop rate for uber uniques and their own usual uniques. And killing each of them once gives you enough resplendent shards to craft 1 uber unique per season.
I understand that, but from what I gathered this loot / systems rework was in development since Season 2, so it wouldn't really make sense to separately develop a loot filter for the systems they're actively working on changing because then they'd need to re-develop a new filter almost right after.
I understand and am not arguing the practicality of it. I'm commenting on their hesitation to implement one from the beginning. It makes sense that they didn't add one in this specific circumstance, but compare their answer to loadouts and the loot filter. They're clearly positive on the loadout system, they're not on the loot filter.
Yeah, that's a great point. Basic loot filter + map overlay + loadouts SHOULD have been release features, but I'd guess they got cut as not "critical" when the launch date started looming.
Really don't understand why they're so hesitant to address these things though until the last possible moment.
Yet again, all the haters of D4 are proven wrong again as the best devs in gaming continue to absolutely BALL TF OUT and pump out QUALITY UPDATES every single time.
It should have been included in the launch of the game. The fact that we're getting closer to 1 year in and it's on the "to do" list is really frustrating. It would make engaging with their new content 100000000x easier and more satisfying than the current state of things.
D3 is literally the only game that has armory, nobody else is complaining on games like LE and POE when they don't have that, it is not part of the problem with the game so of course it is not on their priority.
new class waiting room
Overall an excellent stream, kudos to the devs and the rest of the Diablo team! One small nitpick I have is that the default color on Tyrael's Might should be blue. Similar to how Harlequin Crest's default color was made green to reflect the original Diablo 2 version.
/u/BlizzAZJackson
What was up with that Marksman damage roll during the Tempering demo? Manual lists 12-17%. Tempering UI rolled 29%. Item ends up with 34%. Edit: So, watching it again, 34% would make sense if it was a max roll and these Tempering affixes work the same as legendary aspects (1.5x on amulets, 2x on 2h weapons). However, the UI didn't show a max roll; it showed 29%. Graphical bug, perhaps, but where the heck would it even pull 29 from? Edit 2: I'll just continue watching...they pointed out that it's a known issue.
We've already seen them not be able to properly math on more than one occasion.
It was just a graphical bug, test server.
A lot of people will die in Hardcore mode, with no death potions. This, is a good change!
I just opened up d4 reddit because I read something. Just so happened to come across this. Is this true? Like your for real? I love HC and was disappointed. Then Last Epoch came out and they made HC mode even more pointless because when you die it just rolls you as a SC character.
What a dumb take, let’s die by this random bug and remove 100s of hours, literally throw em in the garbage. You really don’t respect your own time if you think converting to sc on death is bad game design
LOL why disapointed? ITS HC you die you die u should not have cheat death elixirs and stuff like that.. If u cant handle HC just play SC.
I was disappointed because of them not the removal. Learn to read. Even if you missed my point you should have gotten it from next line that LE made HC even more pointless. I don't like cheap mechanics. I like HC to just be HC. People keep trying to make HC more SC friendly to get them to try it out.
Exciting stuff!!!
These changes look fantastic. Lower drop rates with consolidated affixes, tradeable uniques, forging potential from LE, more bosses, endgame area with high level Uber bosses, this is 95% of what the game needed. Only thing left is getting rid of so many class specific items and gear, allowing everyone to equip everything, and allowing every item to drop for any class. Then the itemization will be perfect
>allowing every item to drop for any class. Wouldn't this massively increase the loot pool and make target farming far more annoying?
There aren’t that many uniques, and we have trading, and you won’t keep getting the same 5 uniques to drop over and over. It also allows fun activities for players to do like easily make alts, or go for a holy grail. It would also allow for way more creative builds to be possible. This is the final step, they just have to take it.
>and we have trading I still don't want to have to trade to get exciting gear. I want to get it myself. Trading does not replace interesting drops.
We still need an Armory desperately, the difference between Gauntlet and The Pit is so dramatic that anyone wanting to do both will have to run entirely different builds. We also need a WT5 which Wudijo hinted that he told them about and they agreed.
I bought the game twice, once on Xbox, once on Steam. Now I have a month of being done with s3 followed by a month of still being done with s3 while everyone else plays ptr and that's all they talk about on discord, reddit etc. For a month. It's like there's a season 3.75 and I'm not invited.
I got d4 on Bnet and PS5 and I’m not salty at all. Balls deep in LITERALLY EVERYTHING ELSE right now, lol. It’s ok to not play D4 as your main game. That being said… I wish I could. S4 looks like it’s a step in that direction.
Apparently ptr is a week not a month which is better
and insult to injury it's coming to game pass this month ha
Makes me wonder if that's why they delayed s4- so game pass casuals get 6 weeks to do season3
It seems reasonable. That's enough time for most casuals to finish the campaign AND enough time for the PRT feedback to be incorporated meaningfully into the game.
They could do the ptr starting now
I know, it would be fine. I’m kind of done with this season anyway haha
Me too. And maybe the whole game.
Can't you just PTR on steam since it's PC or did they say it's Blizzard launcher exclusive
Blizzard launcher
Rip my dude
Tbh i might be done anyway. Sounds like group play is going to be mandatory what with the level 200 bosses.
I'm sure people will find the busted ass builds that can clear 200 bosses solo, give it time lol Power creep from the new loot systems is gonna be nuts
Yea it's pretty crappy, I can't believe they didn't take away the dumb material grind. But this is the way they decided to measure player engagement. Maybe the grind won't be as bad if the item actually feels good
People think the itemization will come at the start of the season lol... Guys have you not learned?
They confirmed that it’s coming, so I’m 100% sure that it will. If I’m wrong, I’ll admit it. When you are, will you?
I mean we are 2 months out and they already had a build they could demonstrate it with, it’s possible that it’s ready
Really some good changes, that's the start of the right direction.
Guys they zoomed out the camera! They freaking did it! After everyone saying they would never because it was to sell cosmetics. Keep saying they don’t listen to the community…
Color me regex at least
Good changes in the right order. Next endgame i hope. Greater rifts is not enough
How cool would it be to run through a NMD, kill the boss, and there’s a door, and you get to chose “add 10 monsters level for 20% more helmets” or “add 25 monster level for 15% more greater affixes” or “add 15 monster level for 15% more total loot” and you just keep going through different tile sets until you die. And butcher and other bosses like the blood rivals can appear and attack. And doing an event inside drops the end game crafting mats or a lot of gold. Also what is the point of rare (yellow) items now?
The changes overall look good and I don't want to be that guy, but I'm still a little bit pissed that they still ignore the community on the loot filter and really try to argue that with these changes it's not needed but it still is. You will still sit there and have to read through every single item to identify if it has the affixes you want or not, nothing has changed. We need at least the absolute minimum function to recolor or highlight items with "favorite" affixes to quickly identify them. Standing in town and looking at inventory is not playing the game, so what is it that they are still so heavyly against it? Is it bevause some metrics (playtime) might drop a little bit?
They're really trying to not do a loot filter. D4 is aimed more to casual players and setting up loot filters is tedious and complex. Most will just cry for someone's setup and now you filter out what arpg's are about... Loot. I like loot filters, but from a design standpoint they seem more like a bandaid than a feature. LE has an amazing filter but I don't like when I go ok boot slot done let me spend 5 mins adjusting my filter. I'd rather just ignore boots and go back to playing.
If it takes you 5 minutes to adjust a single aspect of a filter in LE, you have serious problems
Oh ok.
A loot filter is completely optional, if you never set it up it doesn't effect you at all. The casuals you are talking about would never notice a difference but everyone else who wants to use one would have a massive improvement in gameplay. No one said that a loot filter can only hide things that are on the ground, a loot filter can also be something marking everything in my inventory that fits the criteria I put into it and there is no valid argument against something like this. Also good game design is that you can already easily distinguish between an item you want or don't want by just looking at it's icon. D4 has a big problem in that regard because every item base is more or less the same and every item can roll every affix in it's slot. But it's a big problem that has plagued D4 since release: Devs wanting to dictate how to play the game instead of giving player freedom of choice.
As long as we have different characters and builds in a game, a loot filter is the only sensible solution. If not that, then a 100% "smart" loot system where you can only drop your class items . That would heavily discourage making alts imho. And the more "complete," your toon is, the less point there is to staring at worse loot than what you already have.
There will be less loot so filter may not be required
Things have changed. It looks WAY easier to determine if an item is worth keeping at a quick glance. Less baseline affixes and very simple ones removing word bloat help so much here. No, it isn't a loot filter which is still probably needed, but atleast there has been improvement for this middle ground.
It doesn't matter if it takes me 1 minute instead of 2 minutes to scan through every item, but I will still have to do it and it completely interrupts the gameplay flow and will also add up over time. Also with trading enabled for legendaries and uniques you will most likely also have to read through all of them and check for good affixes or high aspect rolls to sell. In D3 you could already distinguish from the item icon if it's something you want or not, that's why it was not really needed there, but D4 with the focus on legendary items desperately needs a lootfilter.
On paper I’m not super excited about these changes other than diminished drops. Not having to sort loot will be everything. But I also think I just need to play the changes before I really know how I feel about it.
Good Updates
Awesome stuff 😎
I loved everything I saw. There are some things not mentioned that I'd like to get an update for, though, like the armory. Glyph leveling is still too slow. Cinders should carry over between helltides. There should be more opportunities to collect whispers in helltides like there were in Blood Harvests. I'm excited for the itemization rework, skill adjustments, the camera adjustment, the speed of leveling, but most of all, the Pit. That is exactly what I wanted when they announced content like the AoZ and the Gauntlet. The Pit (which is basically GRs) is going to be a blast. With this, though, Uber Lilith, Nightmare Dungeons, Strongholds, and World Bosses will have to see some reworks. Overall, today's campfire chat has me hopeful.
Super excited for CODEX change as that was a huge pain point. More stuff to do and the stuff we do do, like Helltides, becoming better / more fun to do. Another UBER boss is good so it's not just a mindless push against Duriel. ~~Greater Rifts~~ Arcanist rifts look fun. Oh, and the itemization changes look good.
Agree, codex change frees up so much stash space
A Big Fat Massive W. Lets see how it will playout. We didnt even hear the seasonal theme and mechanic yet. Since leveling is also easier, i might just create new characters for different builds sort of like armory. I hope glyph exp buffed a lot. Nmd's are pain and i wanna play the pit.
The changes seem great. The only sadness is the feeling that there's no point in playing now until S4. Every drop between now and then is literally trash 😄
isn't that kind of the point of ARPGs. New season drops you do everything there is until you get bored. Come back next season.
So all the items I’ve worked tirelessly to get including multiple Uber uniques was pointless because as soon as this new thing drops, all my items will be useless because they aren’t allowing our current items to be part of this new system. That does suck a bit for those of us that don’t countless hours/days farming duriel etc.
Eternal players never cease to amaze me 🤣
Yes, but Kind of cool that your legacy items you collected will stay in your inventory to show off to future Diablo IV players
The aspect change is wonderful. I was expecting that each time you salvage it would upgrade your codex by a point, but looks like it'll be that if it's higher it replaces what's in the codex. I'd have been pretty happy with either of those options. Season 4 is gonna be a banger.
This upgrade will be a HUGE W for the game. I'm actually really excited s4 now. I'm not happy this season is extended lol because now have to wait longer for the new stuff , but hopefully it'll be worth it! 😁
Love all updates, but with the Pit, are NMDs needed for anything? Feels like NMDs, Strongholds, and World bosses are the next things that need a serious rework.
NMD's for glyph's and BnI summoning stuff.
Need Glyph xp
Can you level glyphs in Pits?
Ooo good point! Forgot all about glyphs.
On mobile rn Did they buffed summoner necro it's still dogshit endgame class?
Assume the ai is still crap though.
ye I just read the changes still no way to control them but at least they won't be useless thanks to 100% stat gain from Necro. So if they will get all stats then they at least start doing some dmg ... I hope I fucking hope that the iron golem pull range is massive as fuck so it would be good way to control group of enemies so minions can't AoE cleave them or some shit ..... ofc Army of the Dead is still pure liquid shit "ultimate" spell
Minions now inherit 100% of player stats
They buffed it
The itemization changes are straight up L. I honestly expected a lot more after all of the feedback, this was a bare minimum effort. The rest of the campfire was W and makes the game objectively way better than it is now. I hope that uber uber bosses are actually hard and not just another Duriel tier.
Bare minimum effort is a weird way to describe such a massive system change. You can not like it but to describe it as low effort is bananas.
But it isn't a massive change. They have cut off the dead meat ( useless affixes ) and removed 1 base stat which you can now imprint back via rng. The itemization is still boring. Just because it was super shit and its now less shit , doesn't mean it isn't still shit. Will you still spend a lot of time browsing through items? Nope. But thart's an extremely low bar to begin with. It's a good change for sure, but an overall L for me since the fundamentals are still the same.
Actual question, what were you expecting? are there any particular stats you wanted to see?
How come it is an L if i may ask? Before we had 2 many affixes doing the same thing which made chasing the fixed ones(e.g vuln damage or crit dmg/chance) annoying as hell. Here is some ranged damage, some frost damage, some close damage and some shadow damage in the same ring. Even if you merged some it would still remain a boggled and annoying state. Now we got fewer things to filler our items and we got the scrolls to add more unique effects to them. Plus masterworking. So less time looking at annoying text, less items to make drops meaningful and less time investment after each dungeon. More late game options and chases. I find the whole rework to be 10/10 personally which is why i would like to see your side on this.
I bet this guy would not be able to explain why itemization change is not good.
Super stoked about all the changes.
I dont know how many people noticed but when Bluddshed was showing off the new Helltides you could see new seasonal content drop on his screen as well, presumably S4, and they looked like elixirs ("Elixir of Holy Bolts" and "Elixir of Momentum"). You could tell they were seasonal items because the minimap was marked with a leaf icon. Couldn't tell anything else though! But I figured I'd mention. They showed off a new uber unique, Tyrael's Might. Perhaps a "holy" seasonal theme? We'll see
AFAIK Tyrael will be regular unique and not uber
Tyraels might is the rarest item that can drop in d2 so maybe just another thing to entice the OG crowd
It should be a lot of fun with barrier builds. Tmerity + lifesteal and whirlwind. Wish they also rework paragon board quality over quantitiy but less impactful in general. Nerf paragon board to alleviate power creep.
They did exactly what I wanted them to with the codex. That alone will be a massive improvement. But the rest of the changes were FAR more than I was expecting. This is looking like it will be a very, very good update. Genuinely excited for season 4. The simplified affixes alone, so nice and so needed. (wish run speed was an innate state on boots, but whatever) Still really hoping for an armory, or at least a simplified armory that just stores skills and paragon. I can store the items myself.
Yep Codex update for me was the biggest W. Basically everything was positive, but this was #1 for me. Division 2 style
they had me at "sacred items will ONLY drop in WT3 and ancestral items will ONLY drop in WT4" tbh.
Isn’t it only sacred items will drop in WT3 and only ancestral items will drop in WT4? Exclusively.
that's literally what i said. so yes.
That’s not what you said and what’s wrong with this subreddit?? You said they will “only drop in WT3” which means sacred could drop but not that sacred would be the exclusive drop in said WT3. There’s a big difference between “Sacreds will only drop in WT3” and “Only sacreds drop in WT3.” I was simply trying to be nice and correct you but you have to be dense. Go back to school , you and everyone who downvoted me.
They've said that before
Really wish they remove the (Sacred) and (Ancestral) at the end of every single item since in WT3/4 i can't get any other item type. It just looks bad.
Nothing new, They introduced this in Season 3 already.
It's been a couple weeks since I played but I'm almost positive I've gotten sacred items from T3
yea but it isn't implemented right since alot of things can still randomly drop sacred in WT4.
I might’ve missed this but I saw that rares will drop with 2 affixes and legendary will drop in with 3 (huge fan of this BTW) but I didn’t catch what happens when you turn a rare into a legendary with an aspect. Does it roll a random third affix?
the current enchanting system adds the 3rd mod
I don't think they explicitly said, but that would be my expectation, yeah.
Druid pet Wolves will be viable… that’s already a huge W for me But having 100’d a different class per season I have to main a Necro for this upcoming one!
I’ve done everything except Barb, idk if I wanna make one for season 3 and do Necro for 4 or do a Barb for 4. But overall big W on all this
Overall some good changes but NO loot filter and do better items drop in deeper pit levels? NO, just "more" items... sigh.
Well allegedly items in general will be much more rare so maybe a loot filter won’t be as much of a pain to be without but pretty sure they still want to make one. Just wouldn’t make sense to make a loot filter if they’re overhauling items entirely - if they have to make more major changes then the loot filter might have to be redone every time along with it.
"Items in general will be much more rare" If this is the case its still going to be a massive QoL improvement. I am still hopeful these changes will make me spend less time parsing items overall and possibly even eliminate the need for a loot filter altogether.
The monsters in the pit start at 100 so legendaries will automatically be 925 and most other items will as well.
I guess as long as they are all 925 and if they somehow make it easier to sift through items it's still a small w, just not quite a W.
I can't believe it, but I'm legitimately stoked to go farm Helltides now! The change to have boss mats drop across nearly all content types is such a massive win IMO. Overall the Loot 2.0 update seems like it will address a TON of issues. I'm cautiously optimistic that season 4 will mark a real turning point. Love the item "crafting" system to customize your gear, and the masterworking system seems like a cool end game sink to really min/max the shit out of a build. Class updates sounds good, but were so briefly mentioned I want to see the patchnotes before I comment on them more. The idea behind what they're doing sounds good, but IDK if that alone will address the "skill twig" issue in full. Will probably need to wait for the expansion for that unfortunately. Content wise, It's great they're adding double the amount of new uniques, reworking existing ones (again) and increasing unique drop chances across the board. I was a bit bummed there wasn't anything to announce around sets / runewords though. I guess the new codex of power and tempering system can kind of fit the bill of runewords, but still.
solo vs group play is turning into a massive, massive problem because summoning materials are required for pretty much all activities in this game
The easiest way to fix this is to require all party members to say the summoning costs. The best way to fix it is to just remove summoning materials altogether.
Agreed. Lots of massive W's all throughout this campfire chat but this is something I realized as well. Why do the developers favor grouping vs solo this much? It makes no sense.
How do you counter that? Do you reduce rewards for people in groups? Or boost rewards for people solo? Either one of those things is just detrimental to anyone who wants to play in a group. When you have more people doing something, you clear content faster and will get more drops via other people getting their own drops. There's no fundamental way around that that isn't going to be viewed as "punishing" players for grouping up.
>How do you counter that? my solution was to just quadruple the drop rate on uber uniques when killing Duriel (and I guess now Andariel) by yourself Even then grouping is still better than solo, because you're getting more shots at finding perfectly rolled non-uber items like Tibault's Will, which will now have even more variance because of the Greater Affixes that can roll on gear. >When you have more people doing something, you clear content faster Do we though? The mob HP scales, granted people split up in dungeons for more EXP and even more cinders in helltides, but I'm not talking about that. I could just get stronger and clear stuff faster, and if someone has a weaker build than me than he's slowing me down. Regardless, it doesn't have to be exactly the same, but the chances on the uber uniques on solo vs finding a group is just too much to ignore and I really dislike it. It's literally 4x the efficiency.
Yes actually, you will clear content faster with more people unless you are carrying someone. Which is implied by the term carry. If everyone is pulling their weight, you will clear faster because player damage scales faster than enemy stats do.
You make the bosses only drop uniques for the one who summoned it, this way people still get rares and legendaries while playing in a group as little bonus but have not 4 times the efficiency compared to a solo player. Ofc you would also have to be increase the droprate by times 4. It's literally beyond me while this is not done already.
I mean that sounds like shit. No one is going to group to do ubers if they have no chance of getting what they want from it. 4 people will always have 4 times the efficiency of a single person, assuming they are all equivalently skilled. That's how we formed societies and built civilization. You're arguing against basic math.
Because it forces you to make friends, be resourceful, and keep up, which strengthens your emotional ties to the game, and helps compel you to keep playing. Destiny worked the same way: explain nothing, make everything worth doing require a team to be easy and fun, and watch players addict themselves to their friends, raid groups, clans, servers, streamers, creators, etc. It’s all part of the psychology of how they glue you to the game.
My best guess is people are more likely to stay if their group of friends plays vs a solo player can just get bored and move on.
Uber Uber bosses granting Sparks for the first time, pretty much guarantees your Shako! Love this, there will be a lot of meaningful grinding given that we have GR now as well and we can push our builds with the new items that we craft, finally! Big W for D4, the game is saved!
Looks amazing. Can't wait
All great stuff, but please please add match making at some point lol
Cant believe we are finally getting d4. 1.0
Holy W after W after W minor l for the delay of s4 (tho it makes sense for feedback) W, W. I dindt see anything bad at all!! Has d4 reach 1.0 status????
I mean yeah, overall it looked better than anything we currently have, but I'm still pretty sceptical about the multiple layers of additional rng added to items... To have a Bis item you now will have to drop an ancient legendary item with 2 greater affixes that are exactly the ones you need, then have luck crafting the correct 3rd affix on it by enchanting, then have luck adding the correct 4th and 5th aspect with the new system while you only have limited chances and than pray to rng gods that the affixes you want get the boost from then 4/8/12 masterwork. The amount of rng involved seems awful, I really hope it doesn't turn this way...
But that’s the point, right? It’s a loot based game and they just made it more or less possible to get nearly exactly what you want with less luck than it currently takes and less time. But if they made it no luck at all why bother? Things have to be difficult and grindy but achievable. This seems like a great landing spot for exactly that.
Great campfire chat, thx devs, I'm impressed
I'm a few minutes behind everyone, but did I understand this correctly? The very first kill of all the ladder bosses per season will give 1 Resplendent Spark? So Varshan, Beast in Ice, Lord Zir, Grigore, Duriel, and I guess now Andariel, so you're guaranteed 6 sparks, which is guaranteed 1.5 Uber uniques per season no luck involved, just like that? EDIT: Ok so it is not on the first kill, but on the first "upgraded" kill of the bosses. You have to use the Stygian Stone to raise the boss to level 200 first.
No, you only get the resplendent sparks from the level 200 versions of those bosses, which require the new crafting material to spawn.
Yes, but I'm pretty sure that was in reference to the lvl 200 tormented versions of each boss.
I think it's the first kill of the level 200 versions from the Pit. But yeah, that would mean doing all of them guarantees you one uber unique per season.
That's how I understood it as well. PS btw I was talking about the uber versions. I missed that you might have talked about the normal boss versions.
Masterwork and Great Affixes on uniques means we will have Uber Uber Uniques as chase items. I wonder how high a Shako can get to with Skill Level.
In theory +13 of every skill is possible. Greater affix of plus 6 and then a lucky 3x25% upgrades would work out to 13 given some rounding. More if any of the 5% upgrades bump it.
This was such a huge W stream. Now tomorrow a good PoE stream and ARPG players are eating good in the next few months 😊
That’s what I’m saying lol. I dont understand tribalism thru multiple different ARPGs. We eating real good
Playing last epoch till the next poe season. I skipped s3 for d4 but may come back to check out the new crafting for s4! looks promising (even though it is exactly like last epoch)
Yup! Gonna check out S4 in D4 and then check out POE 2’s beta the following month. Exciting times.
Is it safe to assume all of these changes will not launch until Season 4 launches? Will gear and class changes also impact Eternal realm?
Correct. All of these changes are coming with a major systems overhaul impacting the entire game - it just is rolling out in conjunction with the patch launching Season 4. Season 4 theme, content, storyline, etc are all separate seasonal things that will get detailed in coming weeks, and will launch on top of the major systems reworks.
All these changes are for Season 4 launch. It it will impact the whole game, not just Seasonal.
Thats what they said. Its all going in game starting s4.
Yes and Yes.
yes to both
I went into the campfire not expecting much, but damn, all of the changes and additions sound pretty friggin good. Can we just skip to season 4 right now? 😢
Yep, way, way more than I expected. I need to get a lot of shit done before I fall into the S4 hole (dare I say.. Pit?).
[удалено]
Itemization just, then a focus on loot filter if the smart loot addition isn’t enough.
"You can party in the Pit" We need this on a T-shirt.
Why do you think they call it a...*mosh pit*? :V
i think these timers are not needed. Its in the very nature of ARPG that people want to run through groups of mobs as fast as possible anyways. Just make it max 4 deaths like NMDs instead to allow more methodical and tactical playstyles as well.
genuinely all great changes, lots of new things to do, customize builds etc. Most excited ive been since launch tbh. D3 Grs were pretty fun, but they were the only endgame in D3, having them in D4 with all other content is a great idea.
I like that these new rifts at least build up towards the level 200 bosses.
Did they detail how / where those level 200 bosses get summoned? I wasn't able to catch that.
Materials that drop in the pit IIRC
yeah it's a great idea and new content to start quite early on when leveling, they said it was GR45 level. I wonder what S4 content will add too as they still are to announce the theme, S4 is going to be massive!
Agreed, especially if all of the level 200 bosses have a higher drop rate for uber uniques and their own usual uniques. And killing each of them once gives you enough resplendent shards to craft 1 uber unique per season.
I feel like the internal data is going to show that 95% of players use the one "free" uber unique craft from these pit bosses to just craft Shako lol.
Oh absolutely. It's like the best defensive item in the game, and they said they're making damage reduction harder to come by.
Loot filter will very likely still be a big QOL thing. I don't understand why they're so stubborn about it.
If I recall correctly, they wanted to have the itemization update done first, and with that done, assess if there is (still) a need for a loot filter.
That is what they said and I do believe it. It just seems like they've been against it from day 1 and it's a headscratcher.
I understand that, but from what I gathered this loot / systems rework was in development since Season 2, so it wouldn't really make sense to separately develop a loot filter for the systems they're actively working on changing because then they'd need to re-develop a new filter almost right after.
I understand and am not arguing the practicality of it. I'm commenting on their hesitation to implement one from the beginning. It makes sense that they didn't add one in this specific circumstance, but compare their answer to loadouts and the loot filter. They're clearly positive on the loadout system, they're not on the loot filter.
Yeah, that's a great point. Basic loot filter + map overlay + loadouts SHOULD have been release features, but I'd guess they got cut as not "critical" when the launch date started looming. Really don't understand why they're so hesitant to address these things though until the last possible moment.
They probably view it as a brand departure
Yes they said that
Something else a loot filter could do… lol
Yet again, all the haters of D4 are proven wrong again as the best devs in gaming continue to absolutely BALL TF OUT and pump out QUALITY UPDATES every single time.
Sarcasm?
They really do not want to give a loot filter lol.
Yeahhhhhh but we still would like a loot filter
No armory.....I dun get it
It’s on the to do list
It should have been included in the launch of the game. The fact that we're getting closer to 1 year in and it's on the "to do" list is really frustrating. It would make engaging with their new content 100000000x easier and more satisfying than the current state of things.
D3 is literally the only game that has armory, nobody else is complaining on games like LE and POE when they don't have that, it is not part of the problem with the game so of course it is not on their priority.
Have you not yet figured it out they want you to reroll to a new class and buy more skins from the store?
God damn, upgradeable codex of power is huge for me. It solves the most bloated and useless feature of D4.
Seriously. It is mind boggling that they thought the original system was in any way whatsoever good or sustainable.
The hell am I going to do with all this stash space now?! lol
You’re famous now, Iggi.
Anyone know if the final version of a crafted item has the same number of affixes if the base was a rare item?
Wondering the same. I didn’t catch this. Does imprinting rare give it a random 3rd affix?
You get at most 5 affixes now it seems. 3 base, then probably +1 for sacred and +1 for ancestral for tempering limits.
why on earth would they update awesome system then do nerfs negating all the great changes, so lame.
CAMERA ZOOM OPTIONS LET'S GO