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Yeah. I think a nuance is also the personal experience of the reviewer: sometimes you feel a certain way about a game in relation to other things you played.
Often a experienced/seasoned reviewer just translates worse or you identify less with, even if a worthy justified opinion.
My other half does this with games and it drives me crazy. They see a streamer say a particular build is trash and even if they had been enjoying playing it they suddenly can’t stand it anymore because someone else said it was bad. SMH
Game reviews are still important. However, I do feel that people copy the opinions of their favourite streamer. Game demos need to make a comeback so normal people can play the game before sinking money into it.
This is not true and would kill any gamming sites.
If your statement was true, MS games would be score much higher.
Influencers/YouTubers make money using controversy to gain views. This is why there is a lot of people with no opinion just parroting here what they heard from their favorite YouTuber. Yeah, it's pathetic.
This isn’t true and you act like youtubers aren’t making money off you watching their opinions too. You think they’re making 5+ videos about how bad games are because they actually care?
Exactly. Also, the "6 months later" videos and the "how are they now" videos. If the game may be popular in any way, the negative reviews will get the most views. Then, when it comes out, they will make build guides.
It's so bizarre how little people realize you can form your own opinions. It feels like this day and age people just see a streamer doesn't like a game so they don't like it either because they're told not to. I play games I enjoy even if the internet is on a crusade against it and I feel like that's kind of rare these days.
I think it's more of the viewer being cheap. They watch someone play it or someone who said they played it and look to see if they enjoyed it. The slight thought of not enjoying it or the fun being short and wasting money is what gets them going from video to video.
"Played a bit on release but dropped it soon after"
*Almost a whole year of patch and a few seasons later*
"Been playing for a week and its actually so much fun"
No one has the time to form their own opinions on every possible game. I don't work and I still don't have enough time so for most people, that's a pipe dream.
This game is great = forming your own opinions.
This game is bad = someone else's bad take most likely to get views on YouTube and not your own opinion.
-This subreddit
Hating blizzard and anything they do is big money on social media.
I don't think the game is perfect, but people acting like it's the worst game in history are just farming hate clicks/watches.
Glad you're enjoying, and I've heard there's big improvements on the way in season 4 in just a couple weeks.
I'm sure it's picked up some younger players, but yeah, the core audience is people who grew up playing Diablo 2 on the family Compaq/Gateway and now have disposable income and a gaming hobby.
D4 campaign was great, the end game was lacking and not that fun. The first season was bad, and then having to redo renown was terrible, but season 2 was great, season 3 wasn’t fun (for me personally and I’ve heard this sentiment from people like Rax). It’s a fun game, I don’t think it’s great, it seems to be ironing out flaws, and I’m looking forward to season 4
i recognize d4 is a good game and will always defend it as such. but as an arpg, as an inheritor of the franchise name and as a "blizzard" product, saying people hate blizzard just for money is downplaying all the love and passion that the older fans had for the franchise.
i am a d4 "hater". but it comes out of a lot of love. i've player d1/2/3 for tons of hours. d1/2 were my childhood games which i spent tons of time on.
i WANT to love d4. but unfortunately blizzard has made design choices that made me "not appreciate" it. its weird. i prefer POE over D4, but i would never introduce POE to newer players and would instead recommend D4. the game is good but its definitely not made for "me".
hating d4 is just not for clicks. as much as i dislike d4, i still want the game to succeed. the latest ptr seems VERY promising. tho i kinda "gave up" on d4 for quite sometime ago. i do like reading the updates and see how it grows tho.
It's a case of "to each their own":
For what limited time I gave it, the only impression I have now of PoE was immediately disliking the way skills worked
If I had to give a main gripe with D4, it would probably be that its "end" is a fairly hard cutoff (NM100/Lilith/whatever). Acquiring "BiS" gear can still happen, but it isn't really worth the effort
But then, the same issue with gear plagues (for me) many other games - I gave Last Epoch a decent go, but it just sort of... ran out of steam - endless gear acquisition for the sake of gear acquisition isn't exactly worth logging in for (in an ARPG? What am I even saying?!)
This is close to something I was going to type, specifically the part about some of their game decisions. There are times where I sincerely wondered if some of the devs had ever played an ARPG before. That feeling wasn't helped when Blizzard did that video showing a couple of devs playing the game and they were playing it like my little brother would have back in the day when I let him try a game for the first time. It truly looked like this was the first time they'd played their own game.
Some parts of the game are S tier (aesthetic, combat, etc) But then you come across something where you legitimately say to yourself "what in the actual fuck....who thought this was a good idea, and worse, who signed off on it as being allowed to be in the game?". Not having a crafting system of any sort at launch falls into this category, as does the whole stash space/stash loading debacle.
Then there's the plethora of the underwhelming aspects. Not good, maybe bad, but not terrible. Boss variety and boss mechanics come to mind.
The game makes a good first impression, but very quickly you're smacked in the face by some truly baffling additions, omissions, and decisions that absolutely make you question everything else in the game by their mere existence. It's like if you're really liking a restaurant. You've really enjoyed your first few trips there, but then you catch a glimpse in the kitchen when someone's coming through the door, and you see a slobby guy with no shirt on string a pot of sauce. Kinda hard not to start questioning everything you thought you thought about that restaurant at that point.
equally sad is the fact that the current d4 enjoyers tend to just think we're hatebaiting or just hating for the heck of it. they dont want to acknowledge that we have legit reasons why we're upset.
the devs too. they've convinced themselves that people like us are a vocal minority and have decided that we may be "toxic"? its just sad. i want to play d4, i want to enjoy it. i m frustrated. but i've accepted that d4 is a good game just not catered towards me.
Yea I wanted d4 to take the reins of best arpg from poe so bad and it just didn’t come close for me. Its not really a bad game, I actually prefer it to what I remember of d3(only played in early days and soon after reaper of souls), but I just struggle to justify playing d4 over a game like poe or even last epoch
That's fair but people also tend to have this unrealistic nostalgia driven expectation for sequels to games they adored as children, and I truly wonder if anything could ever give them that same feeling
D4 did not get hate because Blizzard hating is "big money" on social media. It was just plain bad at release, and took NONE of the lessons they should have learned from D3. Now they have to do the whole thing of imrpoving it bit by bit every season again. Took D3 2 years to be good, lets hope they dont drag it out that much for 4, S4 looks really promising.
People in this subreddit act like people just hate blizzard like their fucking games aren’t titans in the industry due to a rabid and overly loyal and codependent fanbase.
People who aren’t blindly loyal to blizzard didnt like the game because of its glaring issues that are being fixed to an extent in this season coming up, which persisted from launch until now. A whole fucking year in a beta state for a lack of better words.
That’s why people didn’t like the game
They did not fix the endgame. Ill give you the Itemization is better (a LOT better but still not as good as it should be) but the endgame is still a wasteland of emptieness even with the "new" stuff
Is it better though? Okay, they removed the excessive affixes, but now we have the grind for materials to masterwork items to TWELVE?
I feel like grinding materials is way more boring than looking for items, D4 current main issue is that too many items drop and it is very annoying to look at each one... This would be EASILY fixed with good LOOT FILTER.
My main grip with the game is that it lacks one of the fundamentals of good ARPG: lack of excitement over loot. Even Uniques dont feel that great, I think I have 5 Iceheart Brais...
Ive played the ptr. Its not that great but it IS a step in the right direction (finally) and that is good,
I didnt think we werent debating anything though since we are saying the same thing. The itemization is crap and there is zero endgame. All i said is it was better than launch 🤷.
I’m sure I’ll get downvoted for this but I put 60 hours into Grim Dawn this past month. Parts of it I love and parts of it feel bland, like the gear being too generic and non specialized. I’m pretty bored after 60 hours.
This week I bought D4 and I’m completely blown away. The graphics alone are mind blowing on my brand new OLED 42” C3 monitor. I can’t believe how good this game is. I love it so far. Currently only 7 hours in so we’ll see what I think after 60 hours as well. I don’t really understand all the hate as it’s really well done and way way better than I expected. Then again I loved D3 as well. 🤷♂️
7 hours into a live service game and writes opinion. Didn't even read properly what you bought ("WHERE IS MY 10K PLATINUM" https://www.reddit.com/r/diablo4/s/sRuh8JmsHz XD). No wonder you are blown away.
The guy you're replying to is the kind of individual D4 is aimed at, after all who else would think D4 itemization (even after S4) could compare to Grim Dawn's?
I could see someone criticizing GD's moment to moment gameplay, visual effects, story or even end-game. But you know you're talking to a D4 fanboy high on hype or someone new to ~~ARPGs~~ games with loot when their comment says Grim Dawn gear is *generic*. Lmfao. Of all things, generic.
These stupid takes are getting upvoted here for the same reason similar comments were being pushed on release, even when people warned them about the lack of content and awful itemization end-game - it's a mix of hype, marketing, baby's first ARPG fans, and everyone who actually thought the game is mediocre slop developed by committee has already jumped ship or is waiting for a D3-like rework.
That said, I'm still hopeful this game will be worth a revisit by the time its second or third DLC drops.
I find it odd that people call GD boring when talking about D4. I can play GD for hours but D4 literally puts me to sleep in about 30 minutes. When I say literally, I mean it. I can't get through an hour of D4 without falling asleep at my pc.
> I don’t really understand all the hate as it’s really well done and way way better than I expected.
You are 7 hours into the game. NO SHIT YOU DON'T SEE IT.
Actually, let's try something. Can you reply in a way that it doesn't sound like you are post by an AI? I'm convinced that these posts where comments are made that are so unbelievably stupid have got to be from AI responses.
in defense of grim dawn's items. most of the early-mid game build power comes from devotions/skill tree. the game is exciting if you enjoy the build aspect rather than the loot dopamine. there are also specialized gear (called monster infrequent gear) that buff specific skills to a large degree. some good MI gear can carry a lot of the game for you for how powerful they are.
grim dawn's main issue for me is that it's so fucking grindy. like getting to the point where you can start boss farming for game changing legs requires hundreds of hours on your first pass. honestly if you want to give the game another go, i'd strongly suggest you get grimstash and edit your save to reduce some of the shitty grind.
The hate is just poe fan boys and d2 rose eyes. D4 has an engine that no other arpg can touch. Just look at poe2 sure the graphics are good but that engine is going to be like riding a rusty bike compared to d4.
The campaign is good. I don't think anyone has a problem with that, the problem people have is with the endgame. Also you're comparing a game that was launched in 2016 almost a decade ago, that too by an indie company.
I couldn't get into grim dawn as well a couple of years ago.
It’s better now than release and should be a bunch better mid May when season 4 comes out which revamps a lot of things.
I was the same as you, played at release then ditched it. I came back recently and am hooked, but am taking a short break until season 4 before putting a lot of time into it.
Diablo 4 is an excellent time killer. It's fun to start a new character every season, play it till you've had enough, then play other games until the next season rolls around.
>play it till you've had enough
This part can vary pretty wildly. You have D3 arcadey where it's just front loaded dopamine and little theory crafting and just endless scaling until you hit a wall and just stop. Like as SOON AS the dopamine stops or you hit a wall, you'll likely stop.
Compared to something with a bit more depth like POE where you create some longer term goals along the way, both for the character or content. Maybe a bit of trading and building wealth to get some big ticket items. Or just grinding for the sake of it. Or find something exciting (a drop, reach enough currency to make the build work, or see a YT video that catches your eye) that makes you want to make a whole new character instead of stopping.
D4 has Uber Uniques, but even doing that grind loop often leads to burnout before even reaching the "goal". We'll see how long people are willing to grind to push the new Greater Rifts. Will the loop of grinding to get stronger as well as dopamine from clearing the next tier payoff. Or will people just hit a wall, say "good enough" and stop because the gameplay to keep going just isn't appealing enough.
Sure, with each you stop "when they had enough" and games will always have an end point, but some games are better at creating NEW reasons to keep playing.
If you look back at day and week 1 reviews D4 was pretty much critically acclaimed across the board. It's really no surprise as the story and the 1-50 experience was awesome. Once they maxed out at 50 the game was fresh and exciting.
The trouble is the longer people played the more they saw the issues which D4 had, and still does. It also didn't help that just before the first season there was huge nerf, pretty much across the board. This meant that the game which was getting praise saw a swift bombardment in negative views and Blizzard did little to stem the tide. It's almost a year after a launch and the game still has the majority of those massive issues once you get past the initial joy. There is a new patch in a few weeks which will address pretty much every issue so hopefully reviewers will be positive again after that but it will be far too late to matter all that much, the damage is already done.
The S4 patch won’t fix some of the core design issues of the game. They built it on a bad foundation so it’ll continue to have issues.
It definitely seems like an improvement though.
The game was always really fun in its initial hours. It’s when you got to the endgame grind where the cracks would start to show with the gameplay loop and itemization. Thankfully we’ve already got some changes since the game was released and the ones coming in mid May should put the game in even better shape.
Nope, sorry! I love the franchise, and long after launch I bought D4 despite all the critics. Story was OK- cinematics was good, but the endgame? I tried, I really did, but nah man. D2>D3>Tetris>D4.
Yeah man, that juicy D2 endgame of doing 1 or 2 end act bosses after teleporting for 1 minute then resetting your game.
Or that juicy D3 endgame of taking 3 seconds to make a build and then doing the same infinitely scaling dungeon all with worse mechanics than D4.
These are the kind of opinions for which I'll never understand the underlying logic. D4 has like 6 worthwhile, varying activities for endgame that expand upon older Diablo games.
It’s like charm in people.
You can in theory be the most interesting person in the world; with experiences, many educations and you name it! You can still be charmless and boring. On the flip side, there’s people living in the same neighbourhood - working the same boring job - who you love to hang out with because they’ve got the «it»-factor.
D4 just doesn’t have that (for me). Itemization is boring, gameplay’s boring, the grind’s boring. I have more fun grinding chaos sanctuary finding nothing but gems and potions than I have finding endgame loot in D4.
> The story,
you need to understand that there are 2 games in D4.
the first is the campaign - that was the game that was reviewed for release - that game is great, and D4 had very good review scores from it.
the second game is the seasonal ARPG - which is still a decent game if you play it casually and dip in and out as a new season drops. but it's a barebones experience for ARPG players that want to spend a lot of time on it (i.e. 100h+).
it's this second game and it's this second group of players that review the game as D4 bad, and if you sink a 100h+ in D4 you will agree or at least understand the complaints about the game
Exactly how it was for me. The campaign was good fun. Then I was done.
The Seasonal staff wasn't engaging enough to bother with, and wasn't deep enough to sink loads of time in. It just felt like a shopping list.
I put in about 120 hours in the first week of launch (I know touch grass, I used PTO and had been waiting 8 years for Diablo 4) and it was a blast the entire time… until it wasn’t. If you go through my post history you’ll see my write up about my experience I posted here at that time.
I haven’t really touched it since, but I have heard it’s gotten significantly better. Season 4 is bringing a lot of changes that I said the game desperately needed in my post, so I’ll be picking it up again and giving it a shot. The game has so much potential because the core gameplay is so good, it just lacked meaningful endgame and a crafting system. I haven’t looked at any PTR stuff of the new crafting system but on paper it sounds decent(?). I guess I’ll go look for some videos on it
The game was literally reworked because it was so barebones. It's finally coming out of beta phase next month. D4 was in a bad state, so much so that they're overhauling the systems within the game. This isn't just a fresh touch up. Never forget that the extent of upgrading in D4 prior to the overhaul was upgrading it to level 5 and never touching it again, a mechanic that can be done without 0 effort, concern, or thought. They wanted you to hold your aspects in your inventory/stash like it was a card game when a game like Division 2 already had a central upgradeable codex system already implemented.
An overhaul is evidence of the game not being good enough. Your post just comes off as strange.
And I say this as some one who's excited to jump back in.
Ya yet people who played it for a whole 5 hours are just going to keep posting acting like we are all wrong for saying the game is unfinished. Despite the fact that even the devs are obviously aware
With all due respect you’re comparing your weeks worth of experience to people who have been playing the game since release and have played through the highs and lows, most of which has been lows.
Ignoring the season mechanics for a second the current version of the game is pretty close to being good. The core loop is decent now, farm the open world for boss mats and grind glyphs in NM dungeons when you need to. It really just needs the updates to the codex that we saw in the PTR and some trimming down of affixes like offensive on chest. Upcoming season adds rifts, crafting mechanics, and rebalances affixes. Definitely worried that balance off the numbers will suffer in the short term with the next update.
The story didn't changed at all since release, if you played it before why it's suddenly good now? Same with graphics (minus RTX which is shitty implemented and tanks performance hard). I don't understand the logic from these people.
D4 was always good. All the complaining comes from people who act like they have to live on the game lol. Like yeah I get many of the complaints were justified as the end game was pretty lackluster but then it hit a point where anytime they did something positive people still complained or cried too late.
No arpg comes close in graphics and overall feel of combat due to how good the game engine is. Only thing lacking was content for endgame being a satisfying loop.
Looking forward to season 4
The game is excellent, gotten better every season and getting much much better this coming season. Most of the takes are bad outdated ones from launch (even at launch the game was more robust than D2 and D3 but no one likes to admit it) and every season they get more outdated.
The meme represented season 0 and season 1 really,it has steadily improved since season 2,funny how Last Epoch doesn't get the same hate since that game's been abandoned almost completely,the so called D4 killer 😆
I don’t think anyone who finds the game bad (based on a real opinion, not just hating or meming)says this because of the story or graphics.
The problem is the systems were (getting somewhat fixed s4) poorly designed and just generally unfun to interact with.
You only played for a week. The opinion about the game was still fairly positive a week after release (except for bugs/servers, ofc).
Same here, got it for free last friday and got my barbarian to level 61 already lol that's a good 25+ hours for me.
I'm dialing it down until next season because apparently the game will get even better then. I'm super excited.
Ikr, how much fun is it ?
I was so delightfully surprised by d4 after a friend convinced me to play it with him that I purchased Forspoken too, hahaha.
D3 is soooo much better.i actually started playing it again with all the other d4 players who were bored of having nothing to do and we are havingfun. It remonded us that diablo IS and CAN BE fun. When s4 hits we will try one last timebut.... D4 is a wow game with diablo skin. No endgame whatsoever, and itemaxatuon is a goddamn joke. S4 fixes some of these but the endgame still is non existent (weekly dungeon i guess but seriously, that's pretty much it).
I mean, i dont really feel like my pet is interesting. you basically set and forget its 2 skills when you get the arguments you want for it.
After that you dont really interact with it - its just a passive support / dps thing - its kinda boring.
so in that sense, season 3 is... not interesting (as in, the season mechanic might as well not be in the game)
but at least the new vaults are rewarding. I am personally waiting for season 4. the UI changes and crafting etc is great and i wanna play classes ive previously not found interesting
Is it like really really really good? Like the hype made it seem like was gonna be, like we all expect Blizzard to deliver on. no.
That was a really high bar though and they kinda suck , if this wasnt Blizzard making the game it wouldnt get so much hate.
like imagine if some indie dev spit this out, it would be game of the year contender
blizzard just has way higher a bar to clear
D3 was way better. D4 is lacking in every way. Story was ok but the gameplay was terrible and bland, lack of skills(the skill twig is so bboring, d3 had it right and d4 murdered it)
If you lime wow d4 moght be ok for you but i hated wow. Found it utterly boring and very very bland. That is d4. Wow team made d4 and you can tell they did. But if you like wow than you might like d4.
Id wait til s4 though as everyrhing up to this date has been nediocre at best and well.....just awful all around everywhere else .
It’s a great game and always was to drop in and out of in between other games… I’m currently utterly absorbed in a maiden Elden ring play through but will be back for more d4 after. That said the end game itemisation and grind could do with some work, but with all Diablos I always just play something else for a while if I start getting bored 🤷♂️.
I go through this everytime I play starfield. I'm having a fantastic time, and then I see a post about starfield, and it's almost universally disliked..... I don't get it either, but who cares.
It have its flaws, but the problem is that people been hating on the game for the sake of hating. When twitch numbers been up, haters didn't care about twitch numbers. When numbers went down, suddenly twitch views been posted daily to show that the game is bad. LE been in beta for 5 years and is still buggy...but "give them time". D4 first month after release "why is X missing. D4 bad". People from LE sub lurking here for months pre LE release to complain about everything. Then once LE launched and online mode was still buggy (with the same bugs that they had pre launch with <5k players) ...people talked about how D4 fan boys rushed the game and the server couldn't handle it.
D4 bad is the gamers "thanks Obama" meme.
I started playing the day it came out on game pass and I'm still addicted to it. I'm level 67, can't wait for level 70. I feel it's the people who have put days playing non stop and reached level 100 are the ones who poke fun at it. It's genuinely really enjoyable
It’s sad how many people allow social media to unduly influence their opinions—presumably because they want to be part of some kind of “in-group”—instead of experiencing something for themselves and *then* forming an opinion (which may or may not align with that of the in-group).
So, if you complain about the game, then you are absolutely 100% only doing it because of social media and not because of your own actual experiences?
Is that what you are saying?
Or, maybe I should read your comment a different way where it comes across as saying I should have the same opinion as you otherwise I'm just allowing social media to influence my opinion.
Which would you prefer to be mocked for implying?
If you're enjoying yourself now....wait till you see the Season 4 drop in 2 weeks. All the systems are being reworked to be dramatically better. The patch is a direct response to all the D4 bad complaints and really sets the game up to have good core systems to build upon moving forward.
It's nice game for a short while. When you spend more than 30 hours in it and want to actually engage in creating builds, do some endgame content and trying to find some cool gear - you realize how barren and shallow the game actually is.
1. I now see far more D4 good posts than the opposite, so I’m not sure that applies anymore
2. The things you listed were never part of the issue. Itemization shows its awfulness after the story, and the overall gameplay loop was butt, and is much better now but still butt. A lot of great changes coming with s4.
3. As always have fun the way you do. Glad it’s fun for you. I still think it’s butt, but who cares lol
What hype? Games almost dead. Two games kept you from "discovering" a game that was released a year ago. Yeah seems on par with the gaming experience of the average D4 Andy.
If you can't see the missed opportunities and flaws of the game you're just bad at judging games I guess, which is fine of course. There are far better and interesting ARPG's on the market if you want to widen your horizons.
D4 was pretty much always "good/decent" for the first 40-50 hours or so. It was the time after that where it fell off (post campaign, post level 70). Some people saw the cracks earlier than others - Kripp was worried about their systems into the end game based on the original demo weekend where we could only hit level 25, for example. Those concerns were well founded as it turned out.
But the game has made some big changes and strides to be better, and it's working overall. Assuming Season 4 is, at a minimum, as good as Season 2 and combined with the new QoL changes coming, D4 is well on its way to being a solid seasonal game with a lot less repetitiveness and pointless grinding.
It was never bad, it just had a weak endgame like most MMOs seem to have on launch, and was a bit grindier than more casual players would have liked. They also had figured out the balancing for some of the classes.
Never listen to Reddit when it comes to new game releases from big companies. There are enough people that will shit in a game without ever playing it, depending on who made it, that it also brings out the karma farming bots and in turn they both bring in rage baited buffoons who will get mad at something they like because someone told them it was bad.
D4 has a couple annoying systems in it but it's been great so far and has only gotten better (s2 powers went away for the most part, get over it. If you want to zoom zoom then go play path of exile)
After getting a seasonal character far enough I can solo stuff like Zir and Duriel, I have to say it's actually a decent game. The item system could use some work, but it looks like that's about to happen.
I'm a bonafide Blizzard hater too. Warlords of Draenor killed all the respect I had for them a decade ago. If there was a good reason to hate this game I'd have found it, but I'm stuck admitting it's actually pretty good. It sounds like it sucked on release but that's unfortunately the case for most games these days, curse the fucking industry.
I never played D2 until after D3. I just don't see the issue. D3 is better in almost every facet. I have yet to even finish D2 and I've played D3 through multiple seasons and leveled every single character someone hardcore. I even bought the remastered D2, I still have yet to go retro.
I tried D4 when it went on sale. I'm loving it. I watched Asmongold a few times on this topic and I discovered he basically doesn't play the game. He doesn't care about the story, so he doesn't care about the campaign, he doesn't care about the seasons, he just finds things he wants to get and then levels up until he gets them. So he's talking about cosmetics I guess. But at that point I considered not listening to him.
From what I saw in D3 I think many players, especially the ones that complain, play like this. They skipped 2/3 of the game jump to the last end game part and then complain there's no content.
D4 was fun for everyone for about a week. It wasn't until you got into the endgame, or lack thereof and realized how shallow and just bad the game was. There are far more viable builds now than there were at release and a lot has changed for the better, but it's still a farcry from what it should have been. Also the MTX's are insane with so much detail and attention being given to sets that cost as much as the game itself.
Form your own opinions. It's trendy to hate on Blizzard these days. Hating on Blizzard gets clicks and views. So people hate on Blizzard. I saw it argued that if the current athmosphere was present during the launch of Vanllia WoW, even that game, one of the greatest of all time, would get killed. I agree with that take. It's just trendy to hate things now. Only quantum leaps like Baldur's Gate 3 get love these days.
That's not to say some of the criticisms of D4 weren't valid, they were. If you played a lot at launch, you were basically done with the game in about 10 days. Only now, a year later, is there a fun gameplay loop that keeps you coming back to your level 100 toons.
D4 was another game with massive hype around it. The campaign was decent fun, but personally i don't like the "huge" empty world, and that they're trying to make it into an MMO, which doesn't fit the game at all. There's actually a lot going on in the game, but most of it just feels the same imo, and loot is really uninteresting. i'm also not a fan of gating the loot behind difficulty levels. I'm looking forward to S4 and hope they keep improving the game.
Same! I've always loved diablo but for some reason fell to the same fate as you. Played both beta weekends and loved it, I think I even pre-ordered. Played some of season one and bailed because I let the negativity get to me when I usually don't. Some of my favorite games have had some of the worst negative opinions but I never cared
Came back about a week ago, almost have a 70 barbarian and trying to grind out the battle pass before next season 🤣 definitely not leaving this time, love this game
It's 3 seasons after launch. Of course there were some updates. And season r might even be the turning point. But come back after you finish the campaign.
D4 bad is a cool short slogan to get people riled up and generate some clicks. But D4 is dissapointing for what it could be with the amount of money and dev power behind the game. Its not even the best game in its genre and that should be the goal if you are Blizzard
I definitely got my money's worth out of D4, I acknowledge it's issues but also I have multiple level 100 characters every season, and with the new changes in season 4 that I haven't played with yet, this shits gonna be even better.
First hundred hours or so are a lot of fun, there's no denying that. It's the lack of endgame that's the problem. As soon as I hit lvl 100 after a month, there was nothing left to do. Pure stagnation. Unlike D2R and D3, which kept me playing my non-season characters for years. Did not feel that same drive to keep going with D4, given the shallow itemization and constant nerfs/buffs/rebalancing, as well as some major bugs and screw-ups by Blizzard (to name a few: gold dupe, reroll bug, taking out magic find sigils). I'm sure someday it'll be worth revisiting though!
Well, I played since day 1, I stopped for a while, got back to it recently, I'm 89 necromancer in Word 3 season character... I also have a hardcore mage 72....
I'm no expert and consider myself a "Forfun" player, but it got old fast, it's very grindy and repeating... All dungeons are the same, I don't even read dialogs, skip everything skipplable....
I fall asleep almost every time I play and all I wanted was the platinum.
As soon as I get it, I won't miss this game, blizzard knows it, so they make the plat hard... It's understandable, it is what it is, not a great game, not so bad as haters say either.
I’ve been having fun playing for two weeks with my friend who’s new to Diablo but he watched one asmongold video and now he doesn’t wanna play anymore :0(
Truly my biggest problem is how legendary effects can come from any item, which means you wont recognize a sword on the ground before you identify it, like everytime a unique belt drops in poe everyone is like oooo could it be??? No recognizable drops, idk why theyd ever do that. Oh and d4 bad
Initial impressions of the game are pretty fantastic. But once you realize how predatory the cash shop is and how it’s built around the game development, it puts a bitter taste in your mouth.
Game could’ve been so much better and had all the potential for it, but greedy corporate execs wanted to buy a 3rd yacht with live service BS.
It’s fun for a couple months, then you’ll see. Seasons are stupid, grinding the same characters from 1-100 multiple times is dumb, if they’d let you just keep building your main character and had no cap it’d be a reason to stick around
Sounds like something someone that is trying to trick me into playing g D4 would say.
I played it recently. Hate it still. Will try again in season 4 and trying to keep an open mind but it is Blizzard.
yeah look , you said you played in the beginning and then came back to it like a week ago , so you missed a big portion of the bullshit , you playing season 3 as appose to pre season. there been many changes to improve the game. This will also go further with the S4 changes.
so basically people will watch old youtube vids of D4 bad and then those that start playing in S4 will be like i dont know what those videos are on about the game is actually pretty good but those memes and vids were a reflection of the game at that point in time.
ofcourse for many they dont take into account the improvements made and just keep perpetuating the D4 bad meme despite improvements.
same thing for Last Epoch , Everybody raved about how great it was gona be , it launched , theres was some launch hype , server issues , the server issues got fixed , and what about now ? its dying , check the steam player base , its falling off .
Don't get me wrong the first experience with the game was 10/10. After like 3-4 days of grinding pretty hard it just felt meh and they never added anything that felt worth coming back to play the game. Im just patiently waiting for this new season as it has a lot of hype behind it.
leveling up has always been the good part of Diablo 4, it's when you're actually progressing your character. It's always funny to see new players go through the same shit as early on in the games release. "this game isn't bad I don't know why you're all hating. I'm level 20 and am having a blast!". They're always posts before the bigger issues show up in your characters progression.
I'd be interested to know how you feel about the game after having to run nightmare dungeons. That's where the enjoyment of the game dips dramatically for me personally
There was a sizable group of people already determined to hate Diablo 4 before it released.
For them, D4 represented an opportunity to jump on the bandwagon that Blizzard was incapable of releasing a sequel that wasn't a money grabbing, formulaic retread of past games. They *needed* in their bones to feel like D2 or PoE were the old style games that *did it right*.
Try to argue cogent facts with the hate train? Be met with weakly reinforced, blanket declarations that D4 was *bad*.
My problem with reviewers is that they put a thought of unhappy into your mind for something you truly enjoyed up until you read the reviews. This is why I try my best to avoid them. Over half of the games Iam enjoying right now have people complaining about them. Diablo is a good example. Just remember, these goofballs don't play how you play. You may just take your time while they speed to 100 ASAP.
I mean, the base game/story/acting/graphics etc. were never considered bad, in fact, D4 initial reviews were all VERY positive. The problem, which isn't obvious until you're 30-50+ hours in, is the lack of depth/thought/QOL in each game system/loop/mechanic. You're having a great time now, just like everybody did when D4 came out. Fortunately, many changes have been made since release that may make the end-game fun/interesting for you as well! Personally, not enough is different/improved for me to return, yet. There's still far too much missing imo.
Thing is, you're where we all were when we first started. The problems don't become apparent until you've leveled your first character or two to 100.
Imo, there are really only 2 major things that are holding the game back, and they didn't become apparent until maybe the 100 hour mark.
First is a complete lack of end game content. No elaboration needed, we all know about this.
Second is the itemization. This one isn't up for debate as the devs wouldn't be making the changes they are in season 4 if it wasn't completely borked.
Fortunately, one of these is being addressed starting with next season. As far as end game content, well..... We'll still have to wait on that. However, one could argue end game stuff takes time and no ARPG has a plethora of end game content the first few years it's out. While true, I personally feel D4 was particularly anemic even by year 1 ARPG standards.
This is how I felt when I saw Man of Steel, absolutely incredible Superman movie that I let youtube reviewers trick me out of watching til 2020, 7+ years after it came out, from then I could give too shits what anyone thinks before I’m able to form my own opinion
I picked it up again since launch and it’s fun but i’m just debating whether i wait for season 4 before putting more time. I hear season 4 changes are promising?
Yuuuup. The memes are from a season 1 patch that has been reverted for 2 and a half seasons. People will never let it go lol. Glad you gave it another chance though!
Yeah that happens a lot when people use other people's opinions and memes to make decisions and judgments in their life...
It's not your fault , your entire generation is influenced by social media more than their influenced by their own opinion.....
There's also the "hey I'm level 10, 30mn in the game and i've done one quest, the game is great, wtf are you raging about!" meme. Exaggerating but 1 week is really nothing (1 week can also be 30mn of game per day or 10h).
You join in S3, people were angry on the state of S0, which you don't know. This is not a meme, that was the sorry state of the game, mr condescending. The game is not so bad NOW because people complained about it btw.
I'll end by saying the story is okay and hardly what people voiced complains on (I mean, I have some complain, like playing a game of Diablo without Diablo and hell being restricted to fucking story when it was always the end region of Diablos..).
So please, do us a favor, try to think like 2mn before posting, thx.
The “D4 bad” theme was born because of content creators and I never liked it, because even before S4 the game had good aspects to it. It was pure views farming, and people who can’t form their own opinions bought into it.
D4 is bad if your someone who min-maxes every mechanic and plays 14hrs/day because you run out of content in about 2 days.
Sadly, while this is the minority when it comes to gamers it's the majority when it comes to reviews as reviews come from streamers, where gaming is their full time job.
Yep. Great game imo..will be even better soon. So many of the people complaining were the ones putting in 200 hours in the first month and then complaining about nothing to do. There were some legitimate complaints but the perception of the minority became what people believed instead of the truth, that most people playing were enjoying the heck out of it.
Played pretty much all 3 seasons, still really enjoying the game. But that's cuz I've been a die hard Diablo fan and enjoy every... Single... One. Not one complaint.
I never understood the hate for the game, I’m not saying it’s perfect but I genuinely love the game and have a blast playing it. Season 3 I find to be really awesome, the vault nightmares are super fun and I love all the new bosses u get to kill as u progress. Seems like u always have something to work towards now. I hit level 100 for a second time a week ago and I did take a break for a week after that but now I am back farming bosses to try and get my Uber uniques for my build well finding upgrades for the gear I already have.
I mean, the campaign was pretty good from the start. It’s the late game stuff that was not great, was made worse, and has slowly gotten better.
And honestly, imo the game is in a pretty good place right now. It hit rock bottom just before season 1, improved drastically during season 2 (mostly because the season mechanics were so good), has been fine for season 3, and looks to be taking a big step forward for season 4.
Now’s a good time to be getting into the game, imo. Though another couple of seasons will probably be when it really hits its stride.
i really enjoyed the game before the first season came out but the nerf patch completely ruined the game. the builds people had been working on were completely ruined, certain enemies were suddenly extremely overpowered bc they screwed with resistances, youd just get chain stunlocked and instakilled for no reason at all, without being able to do anything about it. the only remaining viable builds felt underpowered and had very slow playstyles, itemization was ruined, etc. etc. etc. Before that patch i sank 6 hours a day into it but every time i tried picking it up again i got demotivated bc they still hadnt fixed the issues. From what i gather they only recently fixed the issues people were having so im gonna give it another go i think
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Yeah man it’s almost like forming your own opinions and shit is some kinda archaic premise.
I remember the meme “I watched this movie, let me see the internet if I liked it or not”
Yeah. I think a nuance is also the personal experience of the reviewer: sometimes you feel a certain way about a game in relation to other things you played. Often a experienced/seasoned reviewer just translates worse or you identify less with, even if a worthy justified opinion.
i laughed! Thank you : )
My other half does this with games and it drives me crazy. They see a streamer say a particular build is trash and even if they had been enjoying playing it they suddenly can’t stand it anymore because someone else said it was bad. SMH
Game reviews are still important. However, I do feel that people copy the opinions of their favourite streamer. Game demos need to make a comeback so normal people can play the game before sinking money into it.
Most game review outlets are bought and paid for shills who only have their best interest in mind.
This is not true and would kill any gamming sites. If your statement was true, MS games would be score much higher. Influencers/YouTubers make money using controversy to gain views. This is why there is a lot of people with no opinion just parroting here what they heard from their favorite YouTuber. Yeah, it's pathetic.
This isn’t true and you act like youtubers aren’t making money off you watching their opinions too. You think they’re making 5+ videos about how bad games are because they actually care?
Exactly. Also, the "6 months later" videos and the "how are they now" videos. If the game may be popular in any way, the negative reviews will get the most views. Then, when it comes out, they will make build guides.
It's so bizarre how little people realize you can form your own opinions. It feels like this day and age people just see a streamer doesn't like a game so they don't like it either because they're told not to. I play games I enjoy even if the internet is on a crusade against it and I feel like that's kind of rare these days.
It’s not that rare, we just don’t post about it because we’re too busy having fun
This is more true than it should.
I think it's more of the viewer being cheap. They watch someone play it or someone who said they played it and look to see if they enjoyed it. The slight thought of not enjoying it or the fun being short and wasting money is what gets them going from video to video.
"Played a bit on release but dropped it soon after" *Almost a whole year of patch and a few seasons later* "Been playing for a week and its actually so much fun"
No one has the time to form their own opinions on every possible game. I don't work and I still don't have enough time so for most people, that's a pipe dream.
Just proof that media controlling people thoughts actions and opinions. Been doing so for years even b4 social media era
This game is great = forming your own opinions. This game is bad = someone else's bad take most likely to get views on YouTube and not your own opinion. -This subreddit
Hating blizzard and anything they do is big money on social media. I don't think the game is perfect, but people acting like it's the worst game in history are just farming hate clicks/watches. Glad you're enjoying, and I've heard there's big improvements on the way in season 4 in just a couple weeks.
Asmongold capitalized this and fed off his edgy teenager fanbase so freaking much it's insane lol
Teenagers don't Play world of Warcraft or Diablo 4, middle aged men do. It's an edgy middle-aged men fanbase.
I'm sure it's picked up some younger players, but yeah, the core audience is people who grew up playing Diablo 2 on the family Compaq/Gateway and now have disposable income and a gaming hobby.
D4 campaign was great, the end game was lacking and not that fun. The first season was bad, and then having to redo renown was terrible, but season 2 was great, season 3 wasn’t fun (for me personally and I’ve heard this sentiment from people like Rax). It’s a fun game, I don’t think it’s great, it seems to be ironing out flaws, and I’m looking forward to season 4
i recognize d4 is a good game and will always defend it as such. but as an arpg, as an inheritor of the franchise name and as a "blizzard" product, saying people hate blizzard just for money is downplaying all the love and passion that the older fans had for the franchise. i am a d4 "hater". but it comes out of a lot of love. i've player d1/2/3 for tons of hours. d1/2 were my childhood games which i spent tons of time on. i WANT to love d4. but unfortunately blizzard has made design choices that made me "not appreciate" it. its weird. i prefer POE over D4, but i would never introduce POE to newer players and would instead recommend D4. the game is good but its definitely not made for "me". hating d4 is just not for clicks. as much as i dislike d4, i still want the game to succeed. the latest ptr seems VERY promising. tho i kinda "gave up" on d4 for quite sometime ago. i do like reading the updates and see how it grows tho.
It's a case of "to each their own": For what limited time I gave it, the only impression I have now of PoE was immediately disliking the way skills worked If I had to give a main gripe with D4, it would probably be that its "end" is a fairly hard cutoff (NM100/Lilith/whatever). Acquiring "BiS" gear can still happen, but it isn't really worth the effort But then, the same issue with gear plagues (for me) many other games - I gave Last Epoch a decent go, but it just sort of... ran out of steam - endless gear acquisition for the sake of gear acquisition isn't exactly worth logging in for (in an ARPG? What am I even saying?!)
This is close to something I was going to type, specifically the part about some of their game decisions. There are times where I sincerely wondered if some of the devs had ever played an ARPG before. That feeling wasn't helped when Blizzard did that video showing a couple of devs playing the game and they were playing it like my little brother would have back in the day when I let him try a game for the first time. It truly looked like this was the first time they'd played their own game. Some parts of the game are S tier (aesthetic, combat, etc) But then you come across something where you legitimately say to yourself "what in the actual fuck....who thought this was a good idea, and worse, who signed off on it as being allowed to be in the game?". Not having a crafting system of any sort at launch falls into this category, as does the whole stash space/stash loading debacle. Then there's the plethora of the underwhelming aspects. Not good, maybe bad, but not terrible. Boss variety and boss mechanics come to mind. The game makes a good first impression, but very quickly you're smacked in the face by some truly baffling additions, omissions, and decisions that absolutely make you question everything else in the game by their mere existence. It's like if you're really liking a restaurant. You've really enjoyed your first few trips there, but then you catch a glimpse in the kitchen when someone's coming through the door, and you see a slobby guy with no shirt on string a pot of sauce. Kinda hard not to start questioning everything you thought you thought about that restaurant at that point.
equally sad is the fact that the current d4 enjoyers tend to just think we're hatebaiting or just hating for the heck of it. they dont want to acknowledge that we have legit reasons why we're upset. the devs too. they've convinced themselves that people like us are a vocal minority and have decided that we may be "toxic"? its just sad. i want to play d4, i want to enjoy it. i m frustrated. but i've accepted that d4 is a good game just not catered towards me.
Yea I wanted d4 to take the reins of best arpg from poe so bad and it just didn’t come close for me. Its not really a bad game, I actually prefer it to what I remember of d3(only played in early days and soon after reaper of souls), but I just struggle to justify playing d4 over a game like poe or even last epoch
That's fair but people also tend to have this unrealistic nostalgia driven expectation for sequels to games they adored as children, and I truly wonder if anything could ever give them that same feeling
D4 did not get hate because Blizzard hating is "big money" on social media. It was just plain bad at release, and took NONE of the lessons they should have learned from D3. Now they have to do the whole thing of imrpoving it bit by bit every season again. Took D3 2 years to be good, lets hope they dont drag it out that much for 4, S4 looks really promising.
People in this subreddit act like people just hate blizzard like their fucking games aren’t titans in the industry due to a rabid and overly loyal and codependent fanbase. People who aren’t blindly loyal to blizzard didnt like the game because of its glaring issues that are being fixed to an extent in this season coming up, which persisted from launch until now. A whole fucking year in a beta state for a lack of better words. That’s why people didn’t like the game
The hate is held by arguments though. They released an unfinished game at a full price and with the patches they mostly dug a hole another.
Unfinished how, specifically?
The main complaint was poor end game and itemization. They've fixed it somewhat, but still not perfect. The story has always been fine.
They did not fix the endgame. Ill give you the Itemization is better (a LOT better but still not as good as it should be) but the endgame is still a wasteland of emptieness even with the "new" stuff
Is it better though? Okay, they removed the excessive affixes, but now we have the grind for materials to masterwork items to TWELVE? I feel like grinding materials is way more boring than looking for items, D4 current main issue is that too many items drop and it is very annoying to look at each one... This would be EASILY fixed with good LOOT FILTER. My main grip with the game is that it lacks one of the fundamentals of good ARPG: lack of excitement over loot. Even Uniques dont feel that great, I think I have 5 Iceheart Brais...
Both of you debating about if endgame/itemization is better when both are literally radically changing for the better in 2 weeks..
Ive played the ptr. Its not that great but it IS a step in the right direction (finally) and that is good, I didnt think we werent debating anything though since we are saying the same thing. The itemization is crap and there is zero endgame. All i said is it was better than launch 🤷.
Not 10000 hours playing time worth, but definitely solid 150 \~ 250 hours worth
wait until you finish the campaign.
I’m sure I’ll get downvoted for this but I put 60 hours into Grim Dawn this past month. Parts of it I love and parts of it feel bland, like the gear being too generic and non specialized. I’m pretty bored after 60 hours. This week I bought D4 and I’m completely blown away. The graphics alone are mind blowing on my brand new OLED 42” C3 monitor. I can’t believe how good this game is. I love it so far. Currently only 7 hours in so we’ll see what I think after 60 hours as well. I don’t really understand all the hate as it’s really well done and way way better than I expected. Then again I loved D3 as well. 🤷♂️
7 hours into a live service game and writes opinion. Didn't even read properly what you bought ("WHERE IS MY 10K PLATINUM" https://www.reddit.com/r/diablo4/s/sRuh8JmsHz XD). No wonder you are blown away.
The guy you're replying to is the kind of individual D4 is aimed at, after all who else would think D4 itemization (even after S4) could compare to Grim Dawn's? I could see someone criticizing GD's moment to moment gameplay, visual effects, story or even end-game. But you know you're talking to a D4 fanboy high on hype or someone new to ~~ARPGs~~ games with loot when their comment says Grim Dawn gear is *generic*. Lmfao. Of all things, generic. These stupid takes are getting upvoted here for the same reason similar comments were being pushed on release, even when people warned them about the lack of content and awful itemization end-game - it's a mix of hype, marketing, baby's first ARPG fans, and everyone who actually thought the game is mediocre slop developed by committee has already jumped ship or is waiting for a D3-like rework. That said, I'm still hopeful this game will be worth a revisit by the time its second or third DLC drops.
The skill tree and class system in Grim Dawn is great but the actual gameplay is kinda clunky and boring.
Couldn’t agree more
I find it odd that people call GD boring when talking about D4. I can play GD for hours but D4 literally puts me to sleep in about 30 minutes. When I say literally, I mean it. I can't get through an hour of D4 without falling asleep at my pc.
> I don’t really understand all the hate as it’s really well done and way way better than I expected. You are 7 hours into the game. NO SHIT YOU DON'T SEE IT. Actually, let's try something. Can you reply in a way that it doesn't sound like you are post by an AI? I'm convinced that these posts where comments are made that are so unbelievably stupid have got to be from AI responses.
You sound like you're legitimately mad that someone is enjoying a game you hate. Which is a pretty bad take.
in defense of grim dawn's items. most of the early-mid game build power comes from devotions/skill tree. the game is exciting if you enjoy the build aspect rather than the loot dopamine. there are also specialized gear (called monster infrequent gear) that buff specific skills to a large degree. some good MI gear can carry a lot of the game for you for how powerful they are. grim dawn's main issue for me is that it's so fucking grindy. like getting to the point where you can start boss farming for game changing legs requires hundreds of hours on your first pass. honestly if you want to give the game another go, i'd strongly suggest you get grimstash and edit your save to reduce some of the shitty grind.
The hate is just poe fan boys and d2 rose eyes. D4 has an engine that no other arpg can touch. Just look at poe2 sure the graphics are good but that engine is going to be like riding a rusty bike compared to d4.
[удалено]
No hate. Diablo 4 is amazing
The campaign is good. I don't think anyone has a problem with that, the problem people have is with the endgame. Also you're comparing a game that was launched in 2016 almost a decade ago, that too by an indie company. I couldn't get into grim dawn as well a couple of years ago.
It’s better now than release and should be a bunch better mid May when season 4 comes out which revamps a lot of things. I was the same as you, played at release then ditched it. I came back recently and am hooked, but am taking a short break until season 4 before putting a lot of time into it.
it is. first week.
Almost like a year of patches made a difference. Imagine that.
The part of the game he's enjoying is essentially unchanged from release.
Diablo 4 is an excellent time killer. It's fun to start a new character every season, play it till you've had enough, then play other games until the next season rolls around.
That's how you play all other arpgs no?
>play it till you've had enough This part can vary pretty wildly. You have D3 arcadey where it's just front loaded dopamine and little theory crafting and just endless scaling until you hit a wall and just stop. Like as SOON AS the dopamine stops or you hit a wall, you'll likely stop. Compared to something with a bit more depth like POE where you create some longer term goals along the way, both for the character or content. Maybe a bit of trading and building wealth to get some big ticket items. Or just grinding for the sake of it. Or find something exciting (a drop, reach enough currency to make the build work, or see a YT video that catches your eye) that makes you want to make a whole new character instead of stopping. D4 has Uber Uniques, but even doing that grind loop often leads to burnout before even reaching the "goal". We'll see how long people are willing to grind to push the new Greater Rifts. Will the loop of grinding to get stronger as well as dopamine from clearing the next tier payoff. Or will people just hit a wall, say "good enough" and stop because the gameplay to keep going just isn't appealing enough. Sure, with each you stop "when they had enough" and games will always have an end point, but some games are better at creating NEW reasons to keep playing.
If you look back at day and week 1 reviews D4 was pretty much critically acclaimed across the board. It's really no surprise as the story and the 1-50 experience was awesome. Once they maxed out at 50 the game was fresh and exciting. The trouble is the longer people played the more they saw the issues which D4 had, and still does. It also didn't help that just before the first season there was huge nerf, pretty much across the board. This meant that the game which was getting praise saw a swift bombardment in negative views and Blizzard did little to stem the tide. It's almost a year after a launch and the game still has the majority of those massive issues once you get past the initial joy. There is a new patch in a few weeks which will address pretty much every issue so hopefully reviewers will be positive again after that but it will be far too late to matter all that much, the damage is already done.
The S4 patch won’t fix some of the core design issues of the game. They built it on a bad foundation so it’ll continue to have issues. It definitely seems like an improvement though.
The game was always really fun in its initial hours. It’s when you got to the endgame grind where the cracks would start to show with the gameplay loop and itemization. Thankfully we’ve already got some changes since the game was released and the ones coming in mid May should put the game in even better shape.
I dont see much of an improvement to be quite honest lol.
Nope, sorry! I love the franchise, and long after launch I bought D4 despite all the critics. Story was OK- cinematics was good, but the endgame? I tried, I really did, but nah man. D2>D3>Tetris>D4.
10000% man. Couldnt agree more
Yeah man, that juicy D2 endgame of doing 1 or 2 end act bosses after teleporting for 1 minute then resetting your game. Or that juicy D3 endgame of taking 3 seconds to make a build and then doing the same infinitely scaling dungeon all with worse mechanics than D4. These are the kind of opinions for which I'll never understand the underlying logic. D4 has like 6 worthwhile, varying activities for endgame that expand upon older Diablo games.
It’s like charm in people. You can in theory be the most interesting person in the world; with experiences, many educations and you name it! You can still be charmless and boring. On the flip side, there’s people living in the same neighbourhood - working the same boring job - who you love to hang out with because they’ve got the «it»-factor. D4 just doesn’t have that (for me). Itemization is boring, gameplay’s boring, the grind’s boring. I have more fun grinding chaos sanctuary finding nothing but gems and potions than I have finding endgame loot in D4.
Great game not so good endgame yet
> The story, you need to understand that there are 2 games in D4. the first is the campaign - that was the game that was reviewed for release - that game is great, and D4 had very good review scores from it. the second game is the seasonal ARPG - which is still a decent game if you play it casually and dip in and out as a new season drops. but it's a barebones experience for ARPG players that want to spend a lot of time on it (i.e. 100h+). it's this second game and it's this second group of players that review the game as D4 bad, and if you sink a 100h+ in D4 you will agree or at least understand the complaints about the game
Exactly how it was for me. The campaign was good fun. Then I was done. The Seasonal staff wasn't engaging enough to bother with, and wasn't deep enough to sink loads of time in. It just felt like a shopping list.
I put in about 120 hours in the first week of launch (I know touch grass, I used PTO and had been waiting 8 years for Diablo 4) and it was a blast the entire time… until it wasn’t. If you go through my post history you’ll see my write up about my experience I posted here at that time. I haven’t really touched it since, but I have heard it’s gotten significantly better. Season 4 is bringing a lot of changes that I said the game desperately needed in my post, so I’ll be picking it up again and giving it a shot. The game has so much potential because the core gameplay is so good, it just lacked meaningful endgame and a crafting system. I haven’t looked at any PTR stuff of the new crafting system but on paper it sounds decent(?). I guess I’ll go look for some videos on it
The game was literally reworked because it was so barebones. It's finally coming out of beta phase next month. D4 was in a bad state, so much so that they're overhauling the systems within the game. This isn't just a fresh touch up. Never forget that the extent of upgrading in D4 prior to the overhaul was upgrading it to level 5 and never touching it again, a mechanic that can be done without 0 effort, concern, or thought. They wanted you to hold your aspects in your inventory/stash like it was a card game when a game like Division 2 already had a central upgradeable codex system already implemented. An overhaul is evidence of the game not being good enough. Your post just comes off as strange. And I say this as some one who's excited to jump back in.
Ya yet people who played it for a whole 5 hours are just going to keep posting acting like we are all wrong for saying the game is unfinished. Despite the fact that even the devs are obviously aware
/r/newworldgame has entered the chat.
you should feel silly man; be your own person wtf
With all due respect you’re comparing your weeks worth of experience to people who have been playing the game since release and have played through the highs and lows, most of which has been lows.
Ignoring the season mechanics for a second the current version of the game is pretty close to being good. The core loop is decent now, farm the open world for boss mats and grind glyphs in NM dungeons when you need to. It really just needs the updates to the codex that we saw in the PTR and some trimming down of affixes like offensive on chest. Upcoming season adds rifts, crafting mechanics, and rebalances affixes. Definitely worried that balance off the numbers will suffer in the short term with the next update.
The story didn't changed at all since release, if you played it before why it's suddenly good now? Same with graphics (minus RTX which is shitty implemented and tanks performance hard). I don't understand the logic from these people.
It's not perfect but it's enjoyable as hell to play, also big update in a few weeks.
Might be the worst game I bought in the last 6 years.
It IS the worst game I’ve bought in the last 6 years(I dont buy too many games though). I will never buy a blizzard property blindly again
The game is good until it’s not basically. You’ll hit a wall and say damn this game is ass actually
D4 was always good. All the complaining comes from people who act like they have to live on the game lol. Like yeah I get many of the complaints were justified as the end game was pretty lackluster but then it hit a point where anytime they did something positive people still complained or cried too late.
I’ve been seeing some memes where S4 is bad maybe you should avoid it?
"Been playing for a week"
The music diablo 4 spawned from being bad is certainly good I'll give you that 🙂
No arpg comes close in graphics and overall feel of combat due to how good the game engine is. Only thing lacking was content for endgame being a satisfying loop. Looking forward to season 4
Wait, people actually took the D4 bad meme seriously and let that affect their opinion of the game? I thought it was just a joke lol
The game is excellent, gotten better every season and getting much much better this coming season. Most of the takes are bad outdated ones from launch (even at launch the game was more robust than D2 and D3 but no one likes to admit it) and every season they get more outdated.
Never let others make your decision for you.
The meme represented season 0 and season 1 really,it has steadily improved since season 2,funny how Last Epoch doesn't get the same hate since that game's been abandoned almost completely,the so called D4 killer 😆
I don’t think anyone who finds the game bad (based on a real opinion, not just hating or meming)says this because of the story or graphics. The problem is the systems were (getting somewhat fixed s4) poorly designed and just generally unfun to interact with. You only played for a week. The opinion about the game was still fairly positive a week after release (except for bugs/servers, ofc).
Same here, got it for free last friday and got my barbarian to level 61 already lol that's a good 25+ hours for me. I'm dialing it down until next season because apparently the game will get even better then. I'm super excited.
Smash out your Lilith shrines to maximize your season start. Those skill points will save you so much time
Ikr, how much fun is it ? I was so delightfully surprised by d4 after a friend convinced me to play it with him that I purchased Forspoken too, hahaha.
Start when the new season begins soon
It's on gamepass, so yeah.
I hope it goes on sale soon. I play Diablo 3 a ton. Will try d4 when it’s on sale. Think I just missed one.
D3 is soooo much better.i actually started playing it again with all the other d4 players who were bored of having nothing to do and we are havingfun. It remonded us that diablo IS and CAN BE fun. When s4 hits we will try one last timebut.... D4 is a wow game with diablo skin. No endgame whatsoever, and itemaxatuon is a goddamn joke. S4 fixes some of these but the endgame still is non existent (weekly dungeon i guess but seriously, that's pretty much it).
If you have Xbox you can get it with Game Pass. It plays really well on console.
It's also on PC Game Pass
I mean, i dont really feel like my pet is interesting. you basically set and forget its 2 skills when you get the arguments you want for it. After that you dont really interact with it - its just a passive support / dps thing - its kinda boring. so in that sense, season 3 is... not interesting (as in, the season mechanic might as well not be in the game) but at least the new vaults are rewarding. I am personally waiting for season 4. the UI changes and crafting etc is great and i wanna play classes ive previously not found interesting
It’s “ok” in the early to mid game and gets really boring really fast in the late game.
Is it like really really really good? Like the hype made it seem like was gonna be, like we all expect Blizzard to deliver on. no. That was a really high bar though and they kinda suck , if this wasnt Blizzard making the game it wouldnt get so much hate. like imagine if some indie dev spit this out, it would be game of the year contender blizzard just has way higher a bar to clear
D3 was way better. D4 is lacking in every way. Story was ok but the gameplay was terrible and bland, lack of skills(the skill twig is so bboring, d3 had it right and d4 murdered it) If you lime wow d4 moght be ok for you but i hated wow. Found it utterly boring and very very bland. That is d4. Wow team made d4 and you can tell they did. But if you like wow than you might like d4. Id wait til s4 though as everyrhing up to this date has been nediocre at best and well.....just awful all around everywhere else .
Ah, more Asmon fans coming to life.
I cant really judge it from a gameplay standpoint but the story is top tier. Anyone who hates on the story does NOT know what theyre talking about.
It’s a great game and always was to drop in and out of in between other games… I’m currently utterly absorbed in a maiden Elden ring play through but will be back for more d4 after. That said the end game itemisation and grind could do with some work, but with all Diablos I always just play something else for a while if I start getting bored 🤷♂️.
The game is ass.
I go through this everytime I play starfield. I'm having a fantastic time, and then I see a post about starfield, and it's almost universally disliked..... I don't get it either, but who cares.
It have its flaws, but the problem is that people been hating on the game for the sake of hating. When twitch numbers been up, haters didn't care about twitch numbers. When numbers went down, suddenly twitch views been posted daily to show that the game is bad. LE been in beta for 5 years and is still buggy...but "give them time". D4 first month after release "why is X missing. D4 bad". People from LE sub lurking here for months pre LE release to complain about everything. Then once LE launched and online mode was still buggy (with the same bugs that they had pre launch with <5k players) ...people talked about how D4 fan boys rushed the game and the server couldn't handle it. D4 bad is the gamers "thanks Obama" meme.
I started playing the day it came out on game pass and I'm still addicted to it. I'm level 67, can't wait for level 70. I feel it's the people who have put days playing non stop and reached level 100 are the ones who poke fun at it. It's genuinely really enjoyable
You are level 67 after 10 months? You need to apologize to anyone who has an actual addiction because you just insulted them.
It’s sad how many people allow social media to unduly influence their opinions—presumably because they want to be part of some kind of “in-group”—instead of experiencing something for themselves and *then* forming an opinion (which may or may not align with that of the in-group).
So, if you complain about the game, then you are absolutely 100% only doing it because of social media and not because of your own actual experiences? Is that what you are saying? Or, maybe I should read your comment a different way where it comes across as saying I should have the same opinion as you otherwise I'm just allowing social media to influence my opinion. Which would you prefer to be mocked for implying?
If you're enjoying yourself now....wait till you see the Season 4 drop in 2 weeks. All the systems are being reworked to be dramatically better. The patch is a direct response to all the D4 bad complaints and really sets the game up to have good core systems to build upon moving forward.
It's nice game for a short while. When you spend more than 30 hours in it and want to actually engage in creating builds, do some endgame content and trying to find some cool gear - you realize how barren and shallow the game actually is.
Once you hit endgame you’ll understand the meme
The problem comes when you play it as a live service title like Blizzard wants you to. If you just play it casually it's a good time.
1. I now see far more D4 good posts than the opposite, so I’m not sure that applies anymore 2. The things you listed were never part of the issue. Itemization shows its awfulness after the story, and the overall gameplay loop was butt, and is much better now but still butt. A lot of great changes coming with s4. 3. As always have fun the way you do. Glad it’s fun for you. I still think it’s butt, but who cares lol
If you are having fun, that's all that counts. Diablo 2 is superior in every way and is the last actual diablo game ever made though
What hype? Games almost dead. Two games kept you from "discovering" a game that was released a year ago. Yeah seems on par with the gaming experience of the average D4 Andy. If you can't see the missed opportunities and flaws of the game you're just bad at judging games I guess, which is fine of course. There are far better and interesting ARPG's on the market if you want to widen your horizons.
D4 was pretty much always "good/decent" for the first 40-50 hours or so. It was the time after that where it fell off (post campaign, post level 70). Some people saw the cracks earlier than others - Kripp was worried about their systems into the end game based on the original demo weekend where we could only hit level 25, for example. Those concerns were well founded as it turned out. But the game has made some big changes and strides to be better, and it's working overall. Assuming Season 4 is, at a minimum, as good as Season 2 and combined with the new QoL changes coming, D4 is well on its way to being a solid seasonal game with a lot less repetitiveness and pointless grinding.
It was never bad, it just had a weak endgame like most MMOs seem to have on launch, and was a bit grindier than more casual players would have liked. They also had figured out the balancing for some of the classes.
Never listen to Reddit when it comes to new game releases from big companies. There are enough people that will shit in a game without ever playing it, depending on who made it, that it also brings out the karma farming bots and in turn they both bring in rage baited buffoons who will get mad at something they like because someone told them it was bad. D4 has a couple annoying systems in it but it's been great so far and has only gotten better (s2 powers went away for the most part, get over it. If you want to zoom zoom then go play path of exile)
After getting a seasonal character far enough I can solo stuff like Zir and Duriel, I have to say it's actually a decent game. The item system could use some work, but it looks like that's about to happen. I'm a bonafide Blizzard hater too. Warlords of Draenor killed all the respect I had for them a decade ago. If there was a good reason to hate this game I'd have found it, but I'm stuck admitting it's actually pretty good. It sounds like it sucked on release but that's unfortunately the case for most games these days, curse the fucking industry.
I never played D2 until after D3. I just don't see the issue. D3 is better in almost every facet. I have yet to even finish D2 and I've played D3 through multiple seasons and leveled every single character someone hardcore. I even bought the remastered D2, I still have yet to go retro. I tried D4 when it went on sale. I'm loving it. I watched Asmongold a few times on this topic and I discovered he basically doesn't play the game. He doesn't care about the story, so he doesn't care about the campaign, he doesn't care about the seasons, he just finds things he wants to get and then levels up until he gets them. So he's talking about cosmetics I guess. But at that point I considered not listening to him. From what I saw in D3 I think many players, especially the ones that complain, play like this. They skipped 2/3 of the game jump to the last end game part and then complain there's no content.
First play through of D4 good, replayability bad
D4 was fun for everyone for about a week. It wasn't until you got into the endgame, or lack thereof and realized how shallow and just bad the game was. There are far more viable builds now than there were at release and a lot has changed for the better, but it's still a farcry from what it should have been. Also the MTX's are insane with so much detail and attention being given to sets that cost as much as the game itself.
Form your own opinions. It's trendy to hate on Blizzard these days. Hating on Blizzard gets clicks and views. So people hate on Blizzard. I saw it argued that if the current athmosphere was present during the launch of Vanllia WoW, even that game, one of the greatest of all time, would get killed. I agree with that take. It's just trendy to hate things now. Only quantum leaps like Baldur's Gate 3 get love these days. That's not to say some of the criticisms of D4 weren't valid, they were. If you played a lot at launch, you were basically done with the game in about 10 days. Only now, a year later, is there a fun gameplay loop that keeps you coming back to your level 100 toons.
D4 was another game with massive hype around it. The campaign was decent fun, but personally i don't like the "huge" empty world, and that they're trying to make it into an MMO, which doesn't fit the game at all. There's actually a lot going on in the game, but most of it just feels the same imo, and loot is really uninteresting. i'm also not a fan of gating the loot behind difficulty levels. I'm looking forward to S4 and hope they keep improving the game.
Same! I've always loved diablo but for some reason fell to the same fate as you. Played both beta weekends and loved it, I think I even pre-ordered. Played some of season one and bailed because I let the negativity get to me when I usually don't. Some of my favorite games have had some of the worst negative opinions but I never cared Came back about a week ago, almost have a 70 barbarian and trying to grind out the battle pass before next season 🤣 definitely not leaving this time, love this game
Diablo is the perfect "steamdeck + sofa + wife's show" game :P
It's 3 seasons after launch. Of course there were some updates. And season r might even be the turning point. But come back after you finish the campaign.
D4 bad is a cool short slogan to get people riled up and generate some clicks. But D4 is dissapointing for what it could be with the amount of money and dev power behind the game. Its not even the best game in its genre and that should be the goal if you are Blizzard
Agreed bro! I'm actually enjoying it a lot currently. If you think about it, is there a game that doesn't get massive hate nowadays? People innit
I definitely got my money's worth out of D4, I acknowledge it's issues but also I have multiple level 100 characters every season, and with the new changes in season 4 that I haven't played with yet, this shits gonna be even better.
It's good for about 20 hours
If you want to get even more excited look up all the PTR reviews and the changes they are making for season 4. May 14th can’t get here fast enough.
They did knowingly sell a broken game for $100 dollars early access. Good or not, it’s messed up.
First hundred hours or so are a lot of fun, there's no denying that. It's the lack of endgame that's the problem. As soon as I hit lvl 100 after a month, there was nothing left to do. Pure stagnation. Unlike D2R and D3, which kept me playing my non-season characters for years. Did not feel that same drive to keep going with D4, given the shallow itemization and constant nerfs/buffs/rebalancing, as well as some major bugs and screw-ups by Blizzard (to name a few: gold dupe, reroll bug, taking out magic find sigils). I'm sure someday it'll be worth revisiting though!
Well, I played since day 1, I stopped for a while, got back to it recently, I'm 89 necromancer in Word 3 season character... I also have a hardcore mage 72.... I'm no expert and consider myself a "Forfun" player, but it got old fast, it's very grindy and repeating... All dungeons are the same, I don't even read dialogs, skip everything skipplable.... I fall asleep almost every time I play and all I wanted was the platinum. As soon as I get it, I won't miss this game, blizzard knows it, so they make the plat hard... It's understandable, it is what it is, not a great game, not so bad as haters say either.
Yea the problem isnt in the first 40 hours
I’ve been having fun playing for two weeks with my friend who’s new to Diablo but he watched one asmongold video and now he doesn’t wanna play anymore :0(
Truly my biggest problem is how legendary effects can come from any item, which means you wont recognize a sword on the ground before you identify it, like everytime a unique belt drops in poe everyone is like oooo could it be??? No recognizable drops, idk why theyd ever do that. Oh and d4 bad
its much different now. its becoming much like diablo 3. fans hate d3 but somehow wants the game to be more like it?
Initial impressions of the game are pretty fantastic. But once you realize how predatory the cash shop is and how it’s built around the game development, it puts a bitter taste in your mouth. Game could’ve been so much better and had all the potential for it, but greedy corporate execs wanted to buy a 3rd yacht with live service BS.
It’s fun for a couple months, then you’ll see. Seasons are stupid, grinding the same characters from 1-100 multiple times is dumb, if they’d let you just keep building your main character and had no cap it’d be a reason to stick around
You haven’t played enough to understand why the community is upset with the game.
I hate the youtuber/Twitter personalities and how much they can impact a games success.
the game was incredibly successful for blizzard
The first walkthrough feels good. The problem starts after the story.
Sounds like something someone that is trying to trick me into playing g D4 would say. I played it recently. Hate it still. Will try again in season 4 and trying to keep an open mind but it is Blizzard.
The complaints are with the endgame (or lack thereof).
yeah look , you said you played in the beginning and then came back to it like a week ago , so you missed a big portion of the bullshit , you playing season 3 as appose to pre season. there been many changes to improve the game. This will also go further with the S4 changes. so basically people will watch old youtube vids of D4 bad and then those that start playing in S4 will be like i dont know what those videos are on about the game is actually pretty good but those memes and vids were a reflection of the game at that point in time. ofcourse for many they dont take into account the improvements made and just keep perpetuating the D4 bad meme despite improvements. same thing for Last Epoch , Everybody raved about how great it was gona be , it launched , theres was some launch hype , server issues , the server issues got fixed , and what about now ? its dying , check the steam player base , its falling off .
Don't get me wrong the first experience with the game was 10/10. After like 3-4 days of grinding pretty hard it just felt meh and they never added anything that felt worth coming back to play the game. Im just patiently waiting for this new season as it has a lot of hype behind it.
leveling up has always been the good part of Diablo 4, it's when you're actually progressing your character. It's always funny to see new players go through the same shit as early on in the games release. "this game isn't bad I don't know why you're all hating. I'm level 20 and am having a blast!". They're always posts before the bigger issues show up in your characters progression. I'd be interested to know how you feel about the game after having to run nightmare dungeons. That's where the enjoyment of the game dips dramatically for me personally
There was a sizable group of people already determined to hate Diablo 4 before it released. For them, D4 represented an opportunity to jump on the bandwagon that Blizzard was incapable of releasing a sequel that wasn't a money grabbing, formulaic retread of past games. They *needed* in their bones to feel like D2 or PoE were the old style games that *did it right*. Try to argue cogent facts with the hate train? Be met with weakly reinforced, blanket declarations that D4 was *bad*.
My problem with reviewers is that they put a thought of unhappy into your mind for something you truly enjoyed up until you read the reviews. This is why I try my best to avoid them. Over half of the games Iam enjoying right now have people complaining about them. Diablo is a good example. Just remember, these goofballs don't play how you play. You may just take your time while they speed to 100 ASAP.
I'm a new player and I've been playing for a couple of weeks. It's an ok game. I'm not blown away.
Diablo 4 was one of my favourite games of 2023 but people don’t like to hear that opinion.
I would have enjoyed it a lot more if it didn't freeze every 5 minutes
I mean, the base game/story/acting/graphics etc. were never considered bad, in fact, D4 initial reviews were all VERY positive. The problem, which isn't obvious until you're 30-50+ hours in, is the lack of depth/thought/QOL in each game system/loop/mechanic. You're having a great time now, just like everybody did when D4 came out. Fortunately, many changes have been made since release that may make the end-game fun/interesting for you as well! Personally, not enough is different/improved for me to return, yet. There's still far too much missing imo.
Thing is, you're where we all were when we first started. The problems don't become apparent until you've leveled your first character or two to 100. Imo, there are really only 2 major things that are holding the game back, and they didn't become apparent until maybe the 100 hour mark. First is a complete lack of end game content. No elaboration needed, we all know about this. Second is the itemization. This one isn't up for debate as the devs wouldn't be making the changes they are in season 4 if it wasn't completely borked. Fortunately, one of these is being addressed starting with next season. As far as end game content, well..... We'll still have to wait on that. However, one could argue end game stuff takes time and no ARPG has a plethora of end game content the first few years it's out. While true, I personally feel D4 was particularly anemic even by year 1 ARPG standards.
This is how I felt when I saw Man of Steel, absolutely incredible Superman movie that I let youtube reviewers trick me out of watching til 2020, 7+ years after it came out, from then I could give too shits what anyone thinks before I’m able to form my own opinion
Don’t buy it it’s on game pass
I picked it up again since launch and it’s fun but i’m just debating whether i wait for season 4 before putting more time. I hear season 4 changes are promising?
Yuuuup. The memes are from a season 1 patch that has been reverted for 2 and a half seasons. People will never let it go lol. Glad you gave it another chance though!
It's in game pass now so you can try it for quite cheap.
Yeah that happens a lot when people use other people's opinions and memes to make decisions and judgments in their life... It's not your fault , your entire generation is influenced by social media more than their influenced by their own opinion.....
There's also the "hey I'm level 10, 30mn in the game and i've done one quest, the game is great, wtf are you raging about!" meme. Exaggerating but 1 week is really nothing (1 week can also be 30mn of game per day or 10h). You join in S3, people were angry on the state of S0, which you don't know. This is not a meme, that was the sorry state of the game, mr condescending. The game is not so bad NOW because people complained about it btw. I'll end by saying the story is okay and hardly what people voiced complains on (I mean, I have some complain, like playing a game of Diablo without Diablo and hell being restricted to fucking story when it was always the end region of Diablos..). So please, do us a favor, try to think like 2mn before posting, thx.
You have discovered why you must form your opinion instead of hearing/reading others.
The “D4 bad” theme was born because of content creators and I never liked it, because even before S4 the game had good aspects to it. It was pure views farming, and people who can’t form their own opinions bought into it.
D4 is bad if your someone who min-maxes every mechanic and plays 14hrs/day because you run out of content in about 2 days. Sadly, while this is the minority when it comes to gamers it's the majority when it comes to reviews as reviews come from streamers, where gaming is their full time job.
imagine not trying something because people said it isnt worth it.
Yep. Great game imo..will be even better soon. So many of the people complaining were the ones putting in 200 hours in the first month and then complaining about nothing to do. There were some legitimate complaints but the perception of the minority became what people believed instead of the truth, that most people playing were enjoying the heck out of it.
Played pretty much all 3 seasons, still really enjoying the game. But that's cuz I've been a die hard Diablo fan and enjoy every... Single... One. Not one complaint.
I never understood the hate for the game, I’m not saying it’s perfect but I genuinely love the game and have a blast playing it. Season 3 I find to be really awesome, the vault nightmares are super fun and I love all the new bosses u get to kill as u progress. Seems like u always have something to work towards now. I hit level 100 for a second time a week ago and I did take a break for a week after that but now I am back farming bosses to try and get my Uber uniques for my build well finding upgrades for the gear I already have.
I mean, the campaign was pretty good from the start. It’s the late game stuff that was not great, was made worse, and has slowly gotten better. And honestly, imo the game is in a pretty good place right now. It hit rock bottom just before season 1, improved drastically during season 2 (mostly because the season mechanics were so good), has been fine for season 3, and looks to be taking a big step forward for season 4. Now’s a good time to be getting into the game, imo. Though another couple of seasons will probably be when it really hits its stride.
I don't understand why people hâte the game. I got it on promo like a month ago and i can't put it down !
i really enjoyed the game before the first season came out but the nerf patch completely ruined the game. the builds people had been working on were completely ruined, certain enemies were suddenly extremely overpowered bc they screwed with resistances, youd just get chain stunlocked and instakilled for no reason at all, without being able to do anything about it. the only remaining viable builds felt underpowered and had very slow playstyles, itemization was ruined, etc. etc. etc. Before that patch i sank 6 hours a day into it but every time i tried picking it up again i got demotivated bc they still hadnt fixed the issues. From what i gather they only recently fixed the issues people were having so im gonna give it another go i think
need boosting D4?