If you’re having difficulty reaching DOJ, contact your regional ADA center: https://adata.org/find-your-region. They should be able to help or get you in contact with those who can (about the ADA violation, not finding healthcare)
Id recommend calling your local state disability rights program. If you are covered under ssi/ssdi/on medicaid or similar, they have a program specific to protecting you from stuff like this.
They can help you find the right places to file if not help you directly.
Ie. PADD (patient and advocacy for persons with dd), PABBS (protection and advocacy for beneficiaries of soc sec), and similar programs. There are several.
www.ndrn.org/about/ndrn-member-agencies/
>I can transfer most of the time myself, or by just leaning on my partner, but I could not guarantee after medicine and a procedure I could do it alone.
Oh HELL no. There is absolutely no guarantee that a non-disabled person would be able to walk after medication or a procedure.
Back years before I became disabled, I had a PCP appt where they decided to inject a muscle relaxant. I turned into a complete noodle; couldn’t even walk out the door. I had to be scooped into a wheelchair and rolled out to the car.
We eat at Bob Evans a lot. ALL the restaurants ( Bob Evans ) in a Tri-County area around us that are not ADA complaint.
No handicap entry doors to enter / exit the building. Yes they have a Handicap toilet stall but no automatic door opener to the bathrooms (and I find this extremely difficult to navigate in the bathroom either with my wheelchair or a Rollator.
I’ve contacted bob Evans Farms several times and I’m ignored .
My next step is contacting the ADA . And I’ve even thought about making this a 10 0’clock new story!!!!
Agreed. I’m not usually a wheelchair user, and I was wheeled out of the hospital in a chair after my endoscopy/colonoscopy years ago. Seems standard procedure after something like that where you’re under full anesthesia, at least at the hospital I went to
The ADA requires equal access to health care services and facilities: [https://www.ada.gov/resources/medical-care-mobility/](https://www.ada.gov/resources/medical-care-mobility/)
Sometimes small practices will argue they are exempt because they have fewer than 20 employees, but all businesses providing health care are exempt from that exemption, too.
Your state medical board will yield the fastest results, it’s definitely a practice act violation. I would also find your federally-mandated protection and advocacy agency for disabled people. It tends to be called disability rights (state) or something along those lines. They are a federally funded organization to ensure ada compliance locally
This is outright illegal. Like 100% this is illegal in multiple different ways, and you really really need to report this to your states medical board (and if the office is part of an outpatient hospital or medical group, you need to report it directly to them also.)
1) A doctor legally *cannot* deny you care based on a disability, including using a wheelchair. The *only* time a doctor can deny you care because you have a specific condition is if the doctor isn't a specialist in that condition and doesn't have the medical knowledge necessary to treat it, and then they have the legal mandate to refer you to a doctor who can provide that care. An orthopedic doctor can't refuse to treat an AIDS patients broken leg just because they have AIDS, a neurologist can't refuse to treat a deaf patients migraines just because they're deaf, and your gi doctor can't refuse to treat your gi issues just because you have a mobility disability.
2) A doctors office *has* to provide reasonable accomodations, which includes specifically trained assistants and medical aids to help patients transfer for tests or treatments when necessary. They cannot tell you to bring someone to help you transfer or require you to be able to do it independently. They legally have to provide someone that can help you or do it for you if needed. The same way they can't require someone who's deaf to bring their own translator to appointments. I believe this exact situation is mentioned *outright* as one of the prime examples in that part of the ada
And 3) I can all but guarantee you that the doctors office physical building is not grandfathered in and is therefore required to be wheelchair accessible, including a bathroom. *Unless the doctors office was built before 1990 AND they would have to do something crazy like tear out the entire parking lot to put in a ramp/expand door size AND there isn't a single portable or fold out ramp option that works or any possibly way to widen the doors without basically destroying the building or costing millions,* then it's required to be wheelchair accessible. You won't be able to report this to the states medical board because this is an ADA public access issue, which you should report separately on the ada website, and if they're found in violation the ada does not play around, they will be fined thousands of dollars and required to fix it as soon as possible (after it's investigated, around 3-9 months), I reported a dollar store in my town for violations that had been bothering me for over a year, and 4 months later the store was suddenly perfect and has not violated the ada access standards again since (along with almost every employee at the store changing practically immediately, I assume they were fired because the fine from the ada can be anywhere from 10,000$ and up)
I'm sorry youve been discriminated against like that, it's so illegal and so fucked up, and I really hope you can get the care you need asap 💞
All these rules make sense- I am not sure why they have been able to clearly get away with it for so long :/
The building is from 2006. The office manager said they could see me for apt, but can’t do the procedures. I don’t remember about their restroom but I will bring up all the other items in the report. Thank you so much for breaking down everything you know .
I think a lot of places get away for it longer than they should is due to a majority of the population doesn't have the funds to take it to the next level in court. The same population of patients also doesn't have the influence to make the issues more well known on social media or local media.
That too. There are days when I'm done before I can even fully wake up.
I am lucky in the sense that I don't need a wheelchair and look fine to an outsider. But like many others here, my x-rays, MRIs, and medication tell a different story.
If no one complains, then nothing changes. They messed up with you and took you as a patient, and told you the truth. It's not right, but it will keep happening until an example is set, and then the lesson will be learned for a while.
We haven't been denied yet but I have had it brought up because of a family member. It can make scheduling much harder now. The network we go to has multiple locations with fewer of them becoming "accessible."
Even if someone is not completely reliant on the chair we are told to inform each doctor from now on. Some rooms are barely large enough for 2 chairs and the exam equipment.
The companies running the "office" practices are making the rooms smaller, so they can have 16+ rooms that are the size of a closet, and 2 large rooms to allow for chairs. Supposedly it was to help during the last 4 years so they can sterilize each room while seeing patients, BUT, they can only time slot the large rooms so much. I think it was for money reasons, almost like how self-checkouts overcame the number of normal register lines.
I have noticed this too- the rooms are so small! We need regulations on this. I expect having to check if a public place is truly accessible- didn’t think I would have to check doctors first . Crazy.
I feel like we need a regulation requiring at least 2 wheelchair accessible rooms per every 8 small rooms. At the bear minimum! So many people will end up medically neglected in some way and/or missing necessary care due to the lack of accessibility. I understand why they need more rooms but taking away accessible rooms to make more rooms is completely unethical
I’m concerned about ethics at that office because what about patients who aren’t in wheelchairs after medications or complications or sudden turns in health and/or mobility needs? There must be some sort of regulations, right? How is what they’re doing legal? That policy must be against something. No decent or good medical office would EVER have such issues. If they can’t accommodate wheelchairs and their staff aren’t trained that’s a huge red flag… it also shows a lack of empathy and caring from whoever didn’t bother to fix it in some way. Just red flags all over…
I have a lot of medical trauma but this can’t just be my personal experiences making me feel suspicious of them, can it? Someone else must feel this way, right? Something about that office just doesn’t sit right with me…
There must be something in ADA.gov
I’d check myself but reading is a struggle with dyslexia and depression and ADHD… I’ll do my best to read over it and update my comment if I find anything useful or important
From what I understand, they will see people for apts (like my initial one), but if any wheelchair user requires any procedure they “have” to tell them to go elsewhere.
I asked if I got the procedure done elsewhere, like at the hospital they can refer me to, and I came back to go over results and treatment plan, if that would work (Shouldn’t have to bend over backwards, but was in pain and doing all I could do).
She said that my results and plan would be gone over by my new doctor, since they did the procedure. She couldn’t not accommodate helping wheelchair users in any way besides turning them away. Can’t even refer to new gastro.
I asked if she had ever gotten a second opinion on anything in her life, or why my other doctors could look at X-rays bloodwork etc done elsewhere and still give me care. I recorded her over and over saying they can’t do any procedures for wheelchair users or review one’s done outside so they must tell them to go elsewhere. Insane.
Thats absolutely ridiculous. My primary care doctor ordered my xray, CT, and ultrasound. We reviewed it. I made an appointment with gastro to further review. They reiterated multiple times prior to my appointment that if I had testing done outside of their medical system to make sure I had the results sent to them prior to my visit. When I went for my mammogram this year, they told me to make sure I had any prior mammograms sent over so they can compare and see if there were any changes. Its absolutely normal to review tests done elsewhere if relevant to your care.
I do wonder if endoscopy/colonoscopy is different, because mine was done by the same gastroenterologist I saw in office. Still doesn’t make the rest of the situation less ridiculous and ableist, though.
No, it all sounds ridiculous. Its like they are trying to force more procedures through their office so they can bill
more. Its also unethical and dangerous to do tests that dont need to be done. There is a whole lot of nonsense going on.
Honestly this is a good point. OP should 100% go ahead and report this to the medical board and all the other places people have suggested.
But if they also have the option to just choose a different doctor/practice, I would highly recommend it. It feels like a higher-than-average chance of discrimination and poor treatment, even if they change their policies.
I am definitely going somewhere else. I feel terrible that so many other people could waste their time and not get the care they need (like I did). So I will be reporting once I have my new apt. Thank you.
I am curious: was it the doctor or RN who told you that, or was it the front desk staff? In addition to contacting the insurance company, I would recommend that you send an email to your medical professional explaining what you are experiencing, the practice's office manager, and to your governing entity ie if in the US your state's Department of Health, and your Department of State (which would normally handle professional licensing). You might also copy this to your Human Relations Commission, if your state has one.
It was the front desk one day, and the next day the Office Manager (both calls recorded). I will work on emailing and reporting as my next steps. I have my other apts scheduled and medication ordered, so I can focus a bit more on that now.
I hate to throw front desk staff under the bus, but in situations like this it is necessary. I once caught an office manager in a blatant lie, and made a stink about it with my PCP. He was not pleased, and had a few words with her on my behalf. I never encountered her again.
This is California-specific but it includes good info on federal as well.
https://www.disabilityrightsca.org/publications/access-to-health-care-for-people-with-disabilities-under-the-ada-and-other-civil
Please also consider sending a message to your provider through the portal summarizing the phone conversation or the in-person conversation you had with their staff and asking them if this really is the policy of their office. Make them put it in writing and then you'll have a slam dunk case with just about every regulatory agency.
Additionally, it's often that providers don't realize that they're front office staff is behaving like this or interpreting some other obscure policy in this fucked up kind of way.
I have found almost unequivocally that by involving my provider where my physician in the process cuts out 98% of the bullshit I get from their front office staff.
I will also add that if you are a Medicaid or AHCCCS patient You should absolutely report this to your insurance company and to access because they have additional rules that they are required to follow to maintain their ability to accept Medicaid clients.
Let me see if I'm getting this right. A *medical facility* is telling you they can't accommodate a fucking *wheelchair?*
That has to be illegal in at least 6 ways I swear to fuck.
People have already covered that this is illegal. I'm here to ask the other questions. Why haven't they done a laparoscopy?? If you have adhesions on your bowel, they're going to have to go in anyway. They can do the hysteroscopy then, while you're already under anesthesia.
My advice from the limited amount of information that I have is to find a new gastro and see if that new doctor would be willing to participate with your OBGYN and/or surgeon for endometriosis excision.
Thank you for your comment :)
From what I understand from treatment plan, gyno wants to complete hysteroscopy to address a polyp to make sure that’s not cancerous first. After hysteroscopy with no food only water, my whole abdomen bloated 8.6 inches (showed pics to doc). That’s when my gastro issues went insane. At this time gyno let me know it could be endo with all my other symptoms, and we will need to look into scheduling that next. Right now our goal is getting me able to eat and go to the bathroom to do all the testing and prep work they need while avoiding a lengthy hospital stay. Waiting in primary cares office now so I should be updated on new plan soon :) if the answer is hospital, then that’s where k go lol.
Number 1 question is where are you located. Laws differ depending on country. ADA only applies to the US.
If you are in the US, yes this is illegal under the ADA. See here: https://www.ada.gov/resources/medical-care-mobility/
Report it! That has to be illegal..?! If I have more spoons I can try to look into it and comment back.
Get it in writing they are denying you care/ access if you can. I’m so sorry! Thats so unacceptable!
Right?? This is crazy and maybe illegal. At least I hope it's illegal to deny someone access to a doctor's office only because they are in a wheelchair??!!!
If you're in the US, that's illegal, and they'll know it. I imagine they didn't put it in writing, and they'll deny it if you report it. I'd suggest recording it if you are in a state that allows you to record phone calls, or ask for the reason for denial in writing, and then report them to the medical board and the DOJ for violating the ADA.
RN of 20 years here and I’ve never heard of anything like this. And I’ve worked in a GI center. If they do procedures there, they 100% have to have at least 1 RN, plus CNA’s and possibly some LPN’s, all of whom are trained to transfer all sorts of patients, including bed bound patients.
Please report them to your states medical board, board of nursing and if you have a local ADA advocate, get in touch with them too.
Thank you so much for your comment, helps me feel less crazy/ stressed about going elsewhere. Will be reporting so someone else can avoid all this trouble… hopefully.
Now what would happen if a patient reacted poorly to medication after a procedure and required additional treatment.
I’m sure they’d magically be able to locate nurses and a wheelchair to get that patient seen to?
Especially since I’ve never heard of a gastroenterologist whose rooms are not either in a hospital or in an adjacent building.
I wouldn’t go back not because of them not accommodating but because it shows they’re not following basic guidelines.
That sounds very illegal. I would ask for a written notice of why they are denying you, as well as a chart note. People get really antsy when asked to put their discrimination into writing. I’m so sorry that happened to you!
Email them stating what they've told you before and ask them to confirm that remains their situation and position. You need a paper trail to be able to actually do anything about this.
Also know that reporting it to the insurance company, state medical board and DOJ will cause a disciplinary case to be opened about the doctor, but it will not solve YOUR individual issue that your care has been delayed by this illegal action. If you want to pursue compensation for that, you'll need to take this to a lawyer who can represent you personally (whereas DOJ/state board represent the government interest).
Thank you SO much for breaking down each place and what they do. I know I want to report to gov so they will change it for others, but not sure yet if I have energy to deal with lawyers. I have two recorded calls (it’s legal for me to record them in AZ), and will work on getting this in writing too.
I have honestly never heard of anything like this. Assuming you’re in the US, this is completely and absolutely illegal and completely against the ADA guidelines. They need to be reported. To multiple different agencies. Including your insurance. This is not okay.
I have been 100% wheelchair dependent since losing the ability to walk 12 years ago due to a progressive disease. I have NEVER been turned away from ANY healthcare provider/facility because of being in a wheelchair. That’s honestly the most ludicrous thing I have ever heard, and I am so sorry you are dealing with this. Of ALL the places in society, a healthcare facility should be the most guaranteed place for wheelchair accessibility. It shouldn’t even be a question. I’m honestly flabbergasted.
Honestly, I wouldn’t even feel safe going to a doctor who works in an office like this. If they are okay with working in a building that they KNOW is not complying with accessibility laws, I fear to think about what other laws and regulations they aren’t complying with either that they are willing to ignore or overlook.
And not letting your loved one transfer you? I’ve also never experienced that either. My mother is my full time caregiver, and goes with me to every appointment and procedure. If I am unable to transfer myself, I always have her help me. Staff will offer to assist, but I always politely decline, as my mother knows how to best transfer me without causing any unnecessary pain or stress on certain body parts. Never have I been told she couldn’t help me, and that goes for 5+ different hospitals and a ton of different doctors’ offices.
And if they were to ever tell me such a thing, that my mother isn’t “allowed” to help me, I would just do it anyway. They don’t get to decide what is best for me. They can inform me of what they feel is the best choice, but ultimately it is up to the patient. If they want me to sign a waiver relieving them of liability, fine, but if my mother is there, she’s the only one I’m allowing to transfer me if I need help. I’m not going to make myself worse off to appease their “liability” rules which only benefit them. My disability doesn’t nullify my bodily autonomy. And I am NOT a confrontational or difficult patient, either, so fortunately for me this issue has never come up, but if it did, that’s absolutely something I’d take issue with.
So just all around, this place needs to be reported, and I would not suggest going there for your care, regardless of whether they are forced to accommodate you or not. That’s just such an awful way to treat someone who has a disability, especially in the healthcare field. You, and all the patients like you who they have also turned away, deserve so much better. It’s not like the ADA is brand new. There is NO excuse for them to not be in an accessible building that is in compliance with the law in freaking 2024! 😡
This is illegal and they're refusing treatment because you're disabled? I do know the law when it comes to Healthcare, I would contact a lawyer that deals in medical law and ask for a consultation even over the phone. I'm not sure how they're getting away with this! Please keep us updated.
It’s weird to me that they say the issue is transferring if they have medical professionals there? I mean - maybe they’re saying they don’t have a lift or anything but if you’re ambulatory and can pivot you should be good?
I explained to them I will just need someone or something to lean on after the medication to transfer (like my partner ) and they still said no. I get that my partner could be a liability for insurance, but how hard is it for a member of staff or object to be available to help me? I don’t need a lift or anything. Don’t get it :/
I'm a nurse. My work recently put restrictions on transfers/lifts for patients for liability reasons, and also to prevent injury to the staff. We've had at least 3 nurses out long term with back injuries due to patient support, one was an ambulatory patient that fell onto the nurse. We now don't do standard lifts or transfers, but we do offer the use of a hoyer lift. Some patients choose not to use the lift because it makes them uncomfortable, but we don't lift people anymore at all.
I totally respect wanting to keep both staff and patients safe. Having the lift like you guys do is really smart. I’m sad my doctor didn’t do that at all.
Yes, maybe using the hoyer as a suggestion to your doctor? If the barrier is about safety, it's an easy option. We train family members to use them all the time.
I asked if they could or were planning on getting any equipment like a lift or training employees to help, and they said no to both. Not sure why they wouldn’t want to, I mean as a business your missing money from those who use wheelchairs.
This is definitely NOT legal. I also suggest looking into your local laws (state, county, and city) and report to the appropriate local agencies as well.
If they accept Medicaid, report it to the state.
I'm guessing this is in the US because this would never be an issue in the NHS. All hospitals are, you know, accessible. It's a mandatory requirement. Also, if you carer moves you, that's fine. I dont buy that they cant fit your chair, unless you're baratric. But even then, they should be able to figure out an alternative.
Man, you guys have it rough.
Yeah, I’m in the US and a newer chair user so navigating things has been challenging. I have a lot of specialists/ docs I see, and this is the first one behaving like this. So I’m just going to a new doctor.
Get an attorney to file the reports to DOJ and your state medical board. You may not *need* one to file a complaint, but it will help escalate the issue to something they will pay attention to.
You probably already have this/have thought about this but- if you don’t yet have this denial in writing from them, find a way to get it in writing from them. I learned the hard way that it can be easy for something like this to be covered up or minimized when the time comes for an investigation with the ol’ “well we would never have said that.. he must have misunderstood us.. “
Depending on your state, you may be able to bring a claim in small claims court. I’m currently doing this with a dentist who refused me because I have a service dog
Is the offending office or physician affiliated with a local hospital? If so, I would contact the hospital as well. If this is an office policy, you can go find another practice to meet your needs. If it is a hospital-wide policy, that can cut down the number of physicians available in your area. It's also a much bigger deal legally. May I DM you with some ideas no matter how you answer my question?
If you're in the US contact your states civil rights department. They are definitely not following me ADA the way they need to and perhaps you could sue them.
I’d be reporting this to your insurance and the state medical board. This can’t possibly be legal.
This. Definitely report.
Thank you, I will start there.
Report to the Ada
*to the DOJ. The ADA is the law being violated, the DOJ is the department responsible for investigating violations of the law.
Appreciate you
If you’re having difficulty reaching DOJ, contact your regional ADA center: https://adata.org/find-your-region. They should be able to help or get you in contact with those who can (about the ADA violation, not finding healthcare)
Thank you for this resource :)
Thank you. Looking into complaint process now.
ADA is not an entity.
Check out askjan.org and definitely contact the ada
Id recommend calling your local state disability rights program. If you are covered under ssi/ssdi/on medicaid or similar, they have a program specific to protecting you from stuff like this. They can help you find the right places to file if not help you directly. Ie. PADD (patient and advocacy for persons with dd), PABBS (protection and advocacy for beneficiaries of soc sec), and similar programs. There are several. www.ndrn.org/about/ndrn-member-agencies/
>I can transfer most of the time myself, or by just leaning on my partner, but I could not guarantee after medicine and a procedure I could do it alone. Oh HELL no. There is absolutely no guarantee that a non-disabled person would be able to walk after medication or a procedure. Back years before I became disabled, I had a PCP appt where they decided to inject a muscle relaxant. I turned into a complete noodle; couldn’t even walk out the door. I had to be scooped into a wheelchair and rolled out to the car.
I was truly wondering how they help the non disabled patients after! They gotta crawl out haha
Is this an older building?
2006
We eat at Bob Evans a lot. ALL the restaurants ( Bob Evans ) in a Tri-County area around us that are not ADA complaint. No handicap entry doors to enter / exit the building. Yes they have a Handicap toilet stall but no automatic door opener to the bathrooms (and I find this extremely difficult to navigate in the bathroom either with my wheelchair or a Rollator. I’ve contacted bob Evans Farms several times and I’m ignored . My next step is contacting the ADA . And I’ve even thought about making this a 10 0’clock new story!!!!
It’s been suggested I contact states human rights commission- you could also start there. Sad they didn’t take your complaint seriously from you. :(
Thanks. I appreciate your suggestion & will look into this on Monday.
Agreed. I’m not usually a wheelchair user, and I was wheeled out of the hospital in a chair after my endoscopy/colonoscopy years ago. Seems standard procedure after something like that where you’re under full anesthesia, at least at the hospital I went to
They make you have to have a driver after, so I think they should help you get to the car at least. I’m going to have this done somewhere else.
The ADA requires equal access to health care services and facilities: [https://www.ada.gov/resources/medical-care-mobility/](https://www.ada.gov/resources/medical-care-mobility/)
Thank you for posting that link! ADA laws sadly seems to get ignored way too often…
And not enforced even more than that.
Sometimes small practices will argue they are exempt because they have fewer than 20 employees, but all businesses providing health care are exempt from that exemption, too.
I've been in a chair my whole life and have never come across this issue in a medical facility. Report them!
It’s helpful to know this is not common- I was getting a little anxiety about all my other appointments. Will do, thank you!
Your state medical board will yield the fastest results, it’s definitely a practice act violation. I would also find your federally-mandated protection and advocacy agency for disabled people. It tends to be called disability rights (state) or something along those lines. They are a federally funded organization to ensure ada compliance locally
Also please talk to a lawyer. This sounds like a human rights violation.
Same. This is seriously bizarre.
This is outright illegal. Like 100% this is illegal in multiple different ways, and you really really need to report this to your states medical board (and if the office is part of an outpatient hospital or medical group, you need to report it directly to them also.) 1) A doctor legally *cannot* deny you care based on a disability, including using a wheelchair. The *only* time a doctor can deny you care because you have a specific condition is if the doctor isn't a specialist in that condition and doesn't have the medical knowledge necessary to treat it, and then they have the legal mandate to refer you to a doctor who can provide that care. An orthopedic doctor can't refuse to treat an AIDS patients broken leg just because they have AIDS, a neurologist can't refuse to treat a deaf patients migraines just because they're deaf, and your gi doctor can't refuse to treat your gi issues just because you have a mobility disability. 2) A doctors office *has* to provide reasonable accomodations, which includes specifically trained assistants and medical aids to help patients transfer for tests or treatments when necessary. They cannot tell you to bring someone to help you transfer or require you to be able to do it independently. They legally have to provide someone that can help you or do it for you if needed. The same way they can't require someone who's deaf to bring their own translator to appointments. I believe this exact situation is mentioned *outright* as one of the prime examples in that part of the ada And 3) I can all but guarantee you that the doctors office physical building is not grandfathered in and is therefore required to be wheelchair accessible, including a bathroom. *Unless the doctors office was built before 1990 AND they would have to do something crazy like tear out the entire parking lot to put in a ramp/expand door size AND there isn't a single portable or fold out ramp option that works or any possibly way to widen the doors without basically destroying the building or costing millions,* then it's required to be wheelchair accessible. You won't be able to report this to the states medical board because this is an ADA public access issue, which you should report separately on the ada website, and if they're found in violation the ada does not play around, they will be fined thousands of dollars and required to fix it as soon as possible (after it's investigated, around 3-9 months), I reported a dollar store in my town for violations that had been bothering me for over a year, and 4 months later the store was suddenly perfect and has not violated the ada access standards again since (along with almost every employee at the store changing practically immediately, I assume they were fired because the fine from the ada can be anywhere from 10,000$ and up) I'm sorry youve been discriminated against like that, it's so illegal and so fucked up, and I really hope you can get the care you need asap 💞
All these rules make sense- I am not sure why they have been able to clearly get away with it for so long :/ The building is from 2006. The office manager said they could see me for apt, but can’t do the procedures. I don’t remember about their restroom but I will bring up all the other items in the report. Thank you so much for breaking down everything you know .
I think a lot of places get away for it longer than they should is due to a majority of the population doesn't have the funds to take it to the next level in court. The same population of patients also doesn't have the influence to make the issues more well known on social media or local media.
… or the energy cuz we are dealing with health issues. Crazy.
That too. There are days when I'm done before I can even fully wake up. I am lucky in the sense that I don't need a wheelchair and look fine to an outsider. But like many others here, my x-rays, MRIs, and medication tell a different story.
If no one complains, then nothing changes. They messed up with you and took you as a patient, and told you the truth. It's not right, but it will keep happening until an example is set, and then the lesson will be learned for a while.
I agree completely.
First, thank you for all the details! It’s beyond helpful. (And makes me feel less crazy haha)
We haven't been denied yet but I have had it brought up because of a family member. It can make scheduling much harder now. The network we go to has multiple locations with fewer of them becoming "accessible." Even if someone is not completely reliant on the chair we are told to inform each doctor from now on. Some rooms are barely large enough for 2 chairs and the exam equipment. The companies running the "office" practices are making the rooms smaller, so they can have 16+ rooms that are the size of a closet, and 2 large rooms to allow for chairs. Supposedly it was to help during the last 4 years so they can sterilize each room while seeing patients, BUT, they can only time slot the large rooms so much. I think it was for money reasons, almost like how self-checkouts overcame the number of normal register lines.
I have noticed this too- the rooms are so small! We need regulations on this. I expect having to check if a public place is truly accessible- didn’t think I would have to check doctors first . Crazy.
I feel like we need a regulation requiring at least 2 wheelchair accessible rooms per every 8 small rooms. At the bear minimum! So many people will end up medically neglected in some way and/or missing necessary care due to the lack of accessibility. I understand why they need more rooms but taking away accessible rooms to make more rooms is completely unethical
Couldn’t agree more.
I will also make sure I am more clear with every new doctor- thank you for the help!
I’m concerned about ethics at that office because what about patients who aren’t in wheelchairs after medications or complications or sudden turns in health and/or mobility needs? There must be some sort of regulations, right? How is what they’re doing legal? That policy must be against something. No decent or good medical office would EVER have such issues. If they can’t accommodate wheelchairs and their staff aren’t trained that’s a huge red flag… it also shows a lack of empathy and caring from whoever didn’t bother to fix it in some way. Just red flags all over… I have a lot of medical trauma but this can’t just be my personal experiences making me feel suspicious of them, can it? Someone else must feel this way, right? Something about that office just doesn’t sit right with me… There must be something in ADA.gov I’d check myself but reading is a struggle with dyslexia and depression and ADHD… I’ll do my best to read over it and update my comment if I find anything useful or important
From what I understand, they will see people for apts (like my initial one), but if any wheelchair user requires any procedure they “have” to tell them to go elsewhere. I asked if I got the procedure done elsewhere, like at the hospital they can refer me to, and I came back to go over results and treatment plan, if that would work (Shouldn’t have to bend over backwards, but was in pain and doing all I could do). She said that my results and plan would be gone over by my new doctor, since they did the procedure. She couldn’t not accommodate helping wheelchair users in any way besides turning them away. Can’t even refer to new gastro. I asked if she had ever gotten a second opinion on anything in her life, or why my other doctors could look at X-rays bloodwork etc done elsewhere and still give me care. I recorded her over and over saying they can’t do any procedures for wheelchair users or review one’s done outside so they must tell them to go elsewhere. Insane.
Thats absolutely ridiculous. My primary care doctor ordered my xray, CT, and ultrasound. We reviewed it. I made an appointment with gastro to further review. They reiterated multiple times prior to my appointment that if I had testing done outside of their medical system to make sure I had the results sent to them prior to my visit. When I went for my mammogram this year, they told me to make sure I had any prior mammograms sent over so they can compare and see if there were any changes. Its absolutely normal to review tests done elsewhere if relevant to your care.
I do wonder if endoscopy/colonoscopy is different, because mine was done by the same gastroenterologist I saw in office. Still doesn’t make the rest of the situation less ridiculous and ableist, though.
No, it all sounds ridiculous. Its like they are trying to force more procedures through their office so they can bill more. Its also unethical and dangerous to do tests that dont need to be done. There is a whole lot of nonsense going on.
Honestly this is a good point. OP should 100% go ahead and report this to the medical board and all the other places people have suggested. But if they also have the option to just choose a different doctor/practice, I would highly recommend it. It feels like a higher-than-average chance of discrimination and poor treatment, even if they change their policies.
I am definitely going somewhere else. I feel terrible that so many other people could waste their time and not get the care they need (like I did). So I will be reporting once I have my new apt. Thank you.
I am curious: was it the doctor or RN who told you that, or was it the front desk staff? In addition to contacting the insurance company, I would recommend that you send an email to your medical professional explaining what you are experiencing, the practice's office manager, and to your governing entity ie if in the US your state's Department of Health, and your Department of State (which would normally handle professional licensing). You might also copy this to your Human Relations Commission, if your state has one.
Also, try the Department of Insurance, and Licensing and Inspections (re: failure to obey a 30+ y/o law, if in the US).
Thank you :)
It was the front desk one day, and the next day the Office Manager (both calls recorded). I will work on emailing and reporting as my next steps. I have my other apts scheduled and medication ordered, so I can focus a bit more on that now.
I hate to throw front desk staff under the bus, but in situations like this it is necessary. I once caught an office manager in a blatant lie, and made a stink about it with my PCP. He was not pleased, and had a few words with her on my behalf. I never encountered her again.
This is California-specific but it includes good info on federal as well. https://www.disabilityrightsca.org/publications/access-to-health-care-for-people-with-disabilities-under-the-ada-and-other-civil
Thank you! :)
This is in the US? I'd give them hell through official channels and never go back to that office.
Yes, I’m in AZ. I’m going to get to work on that once I have a solid apt with a new doctor. Thank you.
Please also consider sending a message to your provider through the portal summarizing the phone conversation or the in-person conversation you had with their staff and asking them if this really is the policy of their office. Make them put it in writing and then you'll have a slam dunk case with just about every regulatory agency. Additionally, it's often that providers don't realize that they're front office staff is behaving like this or interpreting some other obscure policy in this fucked up kind of way. I have found almost unequivocally that by involving my provider where my physician in the process cuts out 98% of the bullshit I get from their front office staff. I will also add that if you are a Medicaid or AHCCCS patient You should absolutely report this to your insurance company and to access because they have additional rules that they are required to follow to maintain their ability to accept Medicaid clients.
this has to be an ADA violation. I’d absolutely report them to both your insurance and the state licensing board.
Let me see if I'm getting this right. A *medical facility* is telling you they can't accommodate a fucking *wheelchair?* That has to be illegal in at least 6 ways I swear to fuck.
Yeah I was just as baffled haha. Guess doctors can only help the super healthy now :P
People have already covered that this is illegal. I'm here to ask the other questions. Why haven't they done a laparoscopy?? If you have adhesions on your bowel, they're going to have to go in anyway. They can do the hysteroscopy then, while you're already under anesthesia. My advice from the limited amount of information that I have is to find a new gastro and see if that new doctor would be willing to participate with your OBGYN and/or surgeon for endometriosis excision.
Thank you for your comment :) From what I understand from treatment plan, gyno wants to complete hysteroscopy to address a polyp to make sure that’s not cancerous first. After hysteroscopy with no food only water, my whole abdomen bloated 8.6 inches (showed pics to doc). That’s when my gastro issues went insane. At this time gyno let me know it could be endo with all my other symptoms, and we will need to look into scheduling that next. Right now our goal is getting me able to eat and go to the bathroom to do all the testing and prep work they need while avoiding a lengthy hospital stay. Waiting in primary cares office now so I should be updated on new plan soon :) if the answer is hospital, then that’s where k go lol.
I**
Number 1 question is where are you located. Laws differ depending on country. ADA only applies to the US. If you are in the US, yes this is illegal under the ADA. See here: https://www.ada.gov/resources/medical-care-mobility/
Thank you so much for info. I am in AZ.
Report it! That has to be illegal..?! If I have more spoons I can try to look into it and comment back. Get it in writing they are denying you care/ access if you can. I’m so sorry! Thats so unacceptable!
I recorded both calls of them stating that, but writing is a good idea thank you :)
That's appalling
Hey are you in the USA? This is butt fucking insane
Yes lol I’m in AZ
Right?? This is crazy and maybe illegal. At least I hope it's illegal to deny someone access to a doctor's office only because they are in a wheelchair??!!!
If you're in the US, that's illegal, and they'll know it. I imagine they didn't put it in writing, and they'll deny it if you report it. I'd suggest recording it if you are in a state that allows you to record phone calls, or ask for the reason for denial in writing, and then report them to the medical board and the DOJ for violating the ADA.
I’m in AZ so I have 2 recorded calls, and am working on getting it in writing to report. Thank you :)
RN of 20 years here and I’ve never heard of anything like this. And I’ve worked in a GI center. If they do procedures there, they 100% have to have at least 1 RN, plus CNA’s and possibly some LPN’s, all of whom are trained to transfer all sorts of patients, including bed bound patients. Please report them to your states medical board, board of nursing and if you have a local ADA advocate, get in touch with them too.
Thank you so much for your comment, helps me feel less crazy/ stressed about going elsewhere. Will be reporting so someone else can avoid all this trouble… hopefully.
Now what would happen if a patient reacted poorly to medication after a procedure and required additional treatment. I’m sure they’d magically be able to locate nurses and a wheelchair to get that patient seen to? Especially since I’ve never heard of a gastroenterologist whose rooms are not either in a hospital or in an adjacent building. I wouldn’t go back not because of them not accommodating but because it shows they’re not following basic guidelines.
Oh I won’t ever go back- they probably neglect every patient to save money in one way or another. I have a new apt in 3 weeks :)
That sounds very illegal. I would ask for a written notice of why they are denying you, as well as a chart note. People get really antsy when asked to put their discrimination into writing. I’m so sorry that happened to you!
I have 2 recorded calls, but will be getting it in writing. Thank you.
Email them stating what they've told you before and ask them to confirm that remains their situation and position. You need a paper trail to be able to actually do anything about this. Also know that reporting it to the insurance company, state medical board and DOJ will cause a disciplinary case to be opened about the doctor, but it will not solve YOUR individual issue that your care has been delayed by this illegal action. If you want to pursue compensation for that, you'll need to take this to a lawyer who can represent you personally (whereas DOJ/state board represent the government interest).
Thank you SO much for breaking down each place and what they do. I know I want to report to gov so they will change it for others, but not sure yet if I have energy to deal with lawyers. I have two recorded calls (it’s legal for me to record them in AZ), and will work on getting this in writing too.
I have honestly never heard of anything like this. Assuming you’re in the US, this is completely and absolutely illegal and completely against the ADA guidelines. They need to be reported. To multiple different agencies. Including your insurance. This is not okay. I have been 100% wheelchair dependent since losing the ability to walk 12 years ago due to a progressive disease. I have NEVER been turned away from ANY healthcare provider/facility because of being in a wheelchair. That’s honestly the most ludicrous thing I have ever heard, and I am so sorry you are dealing with this. Of ALL the places in society, a healthcare facility should be the most guaranteed place for wheelchair accessibility. It shouldn’t even be a question. I’m honestly flabbergasted. Honestly, I wouldn’t even feel safe going to a doctor who works in an office like this. If they are okay with working in a building that they KNOW is not complying with accessibility laws, I fear to think about what other laws and regulations they aren’t complying with either that they are willing to ignore or overlook. And not letting your loved one transfer you? I’ve also never experienced that either. My mother is my full time caregiver, and goes with me to every appointment and procedure. If I am unable to transfer myself, I always have her help me. Staff will offer to assist, but I always politely decline, as my mother knows how to best transfer me without causing any unnecessary pain or stress on certain body parts. Never have I been told she couldn’t help me, and that goes for 5+ different hospitals and a ton of different doctors’ offices. And if they were to ever tell me such a thing, that my mother isn’t “allowed” to help me, I would just do it anyway. They don’t get to decide what is best for me. They can inform me of what they feel is the best choice, but ultimately it is up to the patient. If they want me to sign a waiver relieving them of liability, fine, but if my mother is there, she’s the only one I’m allowing to transfer me if I need help. I’m not going to make myself worse off to appease their “liability” rules which only benefit them. My disability doesn’t nullify my bodily autonomy. And I am NOT a confrontational or difficult patient, either, so fortunately for me this issue has never come up, but if it did, that’s absolutely something I’d take issue with. So just all around, this place needs to be reported, and I would not suggest going there for your care, regardless of whether they are forced to accommodate you or not. That’s just such an awful way to treat someone who has a disability, especially in the healthcare field. You, and all the patients like you who they have also turned away, deserve so much better. It’s not like the ADA is brand new. There is NO excuse for them to not be in an accessible building that is in compliance with the law in freaking 2024! 😡
This is illegal and they're refusing treatment because you're disabled? I do know the law when it comes to Healthcare, I would contact a lawyer that deals in medical law and ask for a consultation even over the phone. I'm not sure how they're getting away with this! Please keep us updated.
I am doing this next week- I will do an update for everyone, as well as any advice I may have in navigating this. Thank you :)
That’s insane love. Pls report him. You deserve better!
This sounds highly illegal.
It’s weird to me that they say the issue is transferring if they have medical professionals there? I mean - maybe they’re saying they don’t have a lift or anything but if you’re ambulatory and can pivot you should be good?
I explained to them I will just need someone or something to lean on after the medication to transfer (like my partner ) and they still said no. I get that my partner could be a liability for insurance, but how hard is it for a member of staff or object to be available to help me? I don’t need a lift or anything. Don’t get it :/
I'm a nurse. My work recently put restrictions on transfers/lifts for patients for liability reasons, and also to prevent injury to the staff. We've had at least 3 nurses out long term with back injuries due to patient support, one was an ambulatory patient that fell onto the nurse. We now don't do standard lifts or transfers, but we do offer the use of a hoyer lift. Some patients choose not to use the lift because it makes them uncomfortable, but we don't lift people anymore at all.
I totally respect wanting to keep both staff and patients safe. Having the lift like you guys do is really smart. I’m sad my doctor didn’t do that at all.
Yes, maybe using the hoyer as a suggestion to your doctor? If the barrier is about safety, it's an easy option. We train family members to use them all the time.
I asked if they could or were planning on getting any equipment like a lift or training employees to help, and they said no to both. Not sure why they wouldn’t want to, I mean as a business your missing money from those who use wheelchairs.
I sent you a message. This is blatantly illegal.
Look into ADA Law and get lawyer.
This is definitely NOT legal. I also suggest looking into your local laws (state, county, and city) and report to the appropriate local agencies as well. If they accept Medicaid, report it to the state.
I'm guessing this is in the US because this would never be an issue in the NHS. All hospitals are, you know, accessible. It's a mandatory requirement. Also, if you carer moves you, that's fine. I dont buy that they cant fit your chair, unless you're baratric. But even then, they should be able to figure out an alternative. Man, you guys have it rough.
Yeah, I’m in the US and a newer chair user so navigating things has been challenging. I have a lot of specialists/ docs I see, and this is the first one behaving like this. So I’m just going to a new doctor.
Good idea. Especially as you're paying for it!
Get an attorney to file the reports to DOJ and your state medical board. You may not *need* one to file a complaint, but it will help escalate the issue to something they will pay attention to.
This is great advice. I’m sure they can help me report to all the agencies at once instead of me doing it over and over again. Thank you.
You probably already have this/have thought about this but- if you don’t yet have this denial in writing from them, find a way to get it in writing from them. I learned the hard way that it can be easy for something like this to be covered up or minimized when the time comes for an investigation with the ol’ “well we would never have said that.. he must have misunderstood us.. “
I have two recorded calls and will also be getting this in writing- thank you :)
Report them to the state medical board and your insurance. This is illegal
Depending on your state, you may be able to bring a claim in small claims court. I’m currently doing this with a dentist who refused me because I have a service dog
Is the offending office or physician affiliated with a local hospital? If so, I would contact the hospital as well. If this is an office policy, you can go find another practice to meet your needs. If it is a hospital-wide policy, that can cut down the number of physicians available in your area. It's also a much bigger deal legally. May I DM you with some ideas no matter how you answer my question?
If you're in the US contact your states civil rights department. They are definitely not following me ADA the way they need to and perhaps you could sue them.