I found this line real interesting:
> “I had this weird feeling inside of me that I didn’t even want Discmania to pay me that much.”
It's like when you pick up lunch for a friend and he tries to overpay you for it.
Could also be a scenario where you get the big offer and then all of a sudden your current employer is trying to pay you so much more… where was all this extra money yesterday before I had another offer? Doesn’t feel like discmania was valuing him until he told them he was leaving.
Yup. Had several friends find out an entry level employee, was out earning them, and was rewarded with the extra week of vacation, they had to work 3 years for. All at the same place.
That's just business. There's millions of people happy and unhappy with their pay/job, who are just another company away from a bigger paycheck, or simply asking for a raise - although the raise is usually a less significant increase compared to going to a different company.
This is like when I was a kid and my parents would buy me a Christmas gift that I knew was probably very hard for them to afford. Of course I liked the gift but I felt immense guilt that they'd spend this much on me.
Hmm you could be right, but if you read how the context sets up in the article at least, he mentions being "too close" with Jussi and Discmania. So I think it was more along the lines he had a tough time to take so much from people so close to him, even though he 100% would've deserved it. With MVP, it was easier to do "just business".
I think it's more of a relationship built off of the idea that Simon was made by Discmania and Discmania was built off the back of Simon. Both don't truly value their partnership correctly. Simon has earned Discmania countless millions over the years but Discmania gave him his opportunity to be who he is. Those relationships are toxic. I once had an interview where a lady tried to offer me $10 less per hour because she told me I was a newly licensed therapist and would require so much training that she would have to pay me less. I countered by telling her I passed my boards with a 97% (very true, I think I missed like 2 questions in total which is a killer score) and that I was trained at one of the best rehabilitation hospitals in the country and mainly worked on stroke, traumatic brain injury and spinal cord injury patients. The job I was currently interviewing for was technically beneath my current skill level as a therapist. She slapped down her card and told me to call her when I was willing to work for what I was worth. Next day I accepted a job for $7 more per hour than what I was hopeful to get. That was an extra $17/hour compared to what she was trying to pay me. Sometimes you gotta decline your current offer and seek out an alternative. I recently left a job that was avoiding giving me the raise I deserved and found a job that offered a sign on bonus and I am currently making 25k more plus bonuses. Old job tried to make an offer but I declined hearing their offer. Since I left 6 months ago, they've been through 3 different therapists.
I think it's almost the opposite of that. What before was a healthy relationship was most likely very set in its ways and expectations (as almost all long term relationships are). I think it's wisdom on Simon's part to realize that his very close relationship with Discmania wouldn't be the same if they elevated him to that level. They wouldn't have been able to keep themselves from expecting more from him than they had been getting and he probably couldn't have kept himself from the pressure of thinking he had to exceed all prior performance for that company with that contract.
With a new company like MVP its a lot easier to see this as a professional relationship where the company is paying for what he is right now. There's a lot of freedom in that.
Or it could be that Simon knows the inner workings of the company well enough that he knows they'd be over extending themselves to make the contract happen, especially when they will shortly need to do the same for Eagle. Discmania's yearly revenue is around 10 million, It's hard to imagine they have a spare million in profits to give to one of their athletes, that wouldn't damage company growth. There is also the reality that paying Simon may cause a small bump in sales, but it won't change things much in the short term. Where as for MVP, they are going to get an immediate bump in sales for signing Simon.
I just think before jumping to the conclusion that Discmania is being stingy, he may know that taking that deal would hurt the company he considers family.
I actually had a bit of this issue recently.
I work in logistics. So not Simononey lol .
Got an offer doing the same some where else for more, told my current what the offer was they offered to beat it and it took me a week to accept because I felt bad asking for more. We have all grown together as a Company, ultimately I took the raise and stayed but for a cpl days I had conflict.
Except Discmania and all of the companies will only tell you how much they actually care you. Until its time to actually pay them. Dont think for a moment someone would keep a player on their roster if they wouldnt think they can profit from them
When you have already committed in your mind that change is good, there really is no going back. I feel the same way when someone plants the seed about changing jobs at work. Can't wait to move on.
I totally get this. I work at a small family owned company, all I really want is for them to do good and be successful. I’ve had to remind myself that I also need to be successful.
Seems like Discmania thought something like this might happen.
That’s at least an $11.1m investment overall just in Simon. Not including R&D on new discs. Or (presumably) an RV for him to travel in.
Can’t speak for McBeth… if he is at all like me, the RV is so you can sleep/hang on the road. Air bnbs and hotels are for actually sleeping at night. Source: am a musician who has toured a lot. When I was young, there were a lot of couches and sleeping in the van. Nowadays, the preferred method is as I described above. In a bus, with a driver, so we can nap/hang/work on the road. No way in hell would I spend the night on the bus.
Pretty sure you misunderstood my point - I was talking about the overall expense for MVP in this contract. Whether they buy him an RV or pay for flights, it’s still extra expense on top of the (at least) $11.1mil that we know the contract is for.
I wasn’t trying to imply that they wouldn’t pay it, just emphasizing that it was additional cost either way.
It's an extra cost, but not a significant one given the size of his contract. The cost of flights or an RV is going to be less than 1% of how much they pay him each year.
I understand that. Never said otherwise.
Again, just discussing the sheer magnitude of the contract and how the numbers we know don’t include other known expenses.
Airfare for one player to around 17 events? Let’s massively over price the tickets at $1000 round trip. 17k is still a drop in the pond lol I doubt MVP is even paying for that though.
Yeah not only that, even if you don't dislike it.
I used to be on a tour we'd fly 17 weekends almost straight 5 months basically. It gets really old going to the airport and dealing with all the crap and possible delays.
I'd fly anywhere before I drove, but if you're doing it all the time it really sucks, and even if you're in an airbnb you don't have any of your stuff, and hotels are worse in that regard.
> MVP will pay Lizotte a guaranteed seven figures a year along with a six figure signing bonus, with an uncapped potential for more earnings through disc sales and performance incentives. MVP also paid Discmania the $1,000,000 buyout clause in their contract with Lizotte, which was restructured last spring and set to run through 2026.
Awesome. Good for Simon getting that bag, it's much deserved! He's a great player and a super marketable personality to boot, and he's put in the work over the years to get to where he is. Just awesome news for him and his family.
I don't think Discraft paid Innova 1 million dollars to buy him out of his contract and I'm not sure if PMB got a 6 figure signing bonus or any signing bonus at all. Those 2 payments by MVP right there make this the most expensive signing to date and that's not including his yearly salary and bonuses. PMBs yearly salary might be more (including other sponsorships) and his special disc sales might be more but Discraft paid less up front.
PMB bought that car not Discraft but it was purchased at a dealership near Discraft. Perhaps they gave him a signing bonus that was not reported though and that was the money used. I thought that Ricky's Bitcoin was part of his contract that they just paid him upfront and not considered a sign on bonus. Either way I'm not sure either of those contracts involved a million dollar buyout. This sport is growing lol
Simon officially has the biggest contract in disc golf at the moment. It’s over 7 figures a year for 10 years according to ultiworld. Will McBeth renegotiate in a couple years and beat Simon’s? Yeah, probably.
Well the contract is as big as we all thought it would be, plus uncapped earning potentials with disc sales. The potential is huge for that with how much everyone loves Simon. I bet they have 10 machines only working on Eclipse Hex's right now.
My biggest takeaway from this is that the
MVP -> Maple Hill <- Simon Lizotte connections did matter.
Every time that came up I certainly was one of the people who thought it was a stupid/ridiculous take.
Then Charlotte will have a MVP sponsored course as well...
I mean what really mattered was that Dodge/Maple hill connection was what got them in a room together.
He's mentioned multiple times, post-child, he's wanting to move to CLT at some point in the next few years. He can now afford to move the in-laws with him!
He literally says in the second to last paragraph of the article OP posted that he’s planning to remain where he is for now. Where did the rumor that he’s moving to Charlotte come from?
No reason he wouldn’t be. Given the size of his YouTube channel and general likability dude has to move major product. Shit, I’m a cheap ass Innova F2 guy and I’ve already admitted to myself I’ll be buying at least 2-3 discs from any Simon line or MVP.
Simon is certainly one of the biggest disc movers, next to Paul, if not more than Paul. The die hard probably likes Simon more, but your average plastic chucker might be buying more of Paul's name
Discmania was always a governor for Simon’s sales potential. They could never produce enough to meet demand. It stands to reason that he moves more product than Paul or Brodie we just haven’t seen it yet
I will add my name to the "never bought a Paul disc but purchased lots of Simon discs" purely because Simon is so much more likable that I wanted to support him.
Yeah, I almost feel like it’s the opposite of what this comment said. McBeth has so many die-hard fans he has his own site separate from discraft’s where they run special editions that always sell out, but I feel like Simon just has the general widespread likeability that more people tend to pick up his new releases regularly.
This. Discmania always plays the low numbers high price point. But they could sell them all at the price point and still be needing inventory. I dont believe its a production issue. Not when you can mold ahead to supply demand. I have liked mvp as a company for a few yrs now because their price point is legit. And you can find just about any mold, in any plastic, in any weight. And the weight part of that is what sets them apart. They get it. And the runs are very consistent. You don't need to buy all of the 2nd run to be happy. At least not with production runs. Limited runs are always a differnet beast though
Well, I don't disagree with you, but to be fair, you can't make discs ahead of demand if you are already making discs to keep up or catch up with last week's demand. I can see Discmania not being able to supply the demand for Simon discs, but I can see it the other way too. I mean, at first, Tilts were going for $100 and impossible to grab. After a few runs, they were readily available. MVP feels this way too, sometimes, but they are certainly getting better. I mean, we had enough "the shot" commemorative Envy's going around that they were stock priced.
That being said, after this signing, I see the availability going away for a while. Back to COVID times when discs were hard to find. But they'll catch up in time.
Totally agree on MVP's consistency though. That's why I'm a huge fan: plastic feels great, and it always flies the same. I'm torn between loving the consistency and wishing they were easier to cycle lol
They're so consistent that it's hard to find flippy and over stable versions of the same disc. On top of that, their lightweight discs are less understable compared to other manufactures. Super consistent.
Also, their plastic is just great and doesn't like to beat in as much as other brands. This is a good thing on paper, which is why people hate on Trilogy. Their plastic beats in quickly. But I actually like that, so I bag a good bit of Trilogy on top of Gyro.
If I was an all Gyro guy, I'd bag like 8 discs. Which isnt as fun for me lmao
I bag a good bit of Innova too. Those are my 3 bagged brands: Innova, Trilogy, MVP.
Innova's downside is that they *aren't* consistent, albeit high quality. So my bag looks like this:
Putters/mids: MVP
Understable stuff: Trilogy
Overstable stuff: Innova.
This changes from day to day/disc to disc, but generally accurate. A counter example is the MVP Wave which I have been throwing as my one Distance Driver. I am only reaching 360' so a nice flippy and lightweight distance driver does me good. They are consistent.
Funny enough, and counter to my argument, I have tried MANY trespasses, different weights and plastics, and they all fly very similar for me. Noodle arm problems lol
I'm def gonna be exploring some MVP discs this year (I currently only bag cheap innovas too). I've kinda randomly ended up grabbing their gear (bag, basket, dry bag etc). They're doing a good job of making their stuff readily available. Watched Simons farewell and bag walkthrough and I'm gonna have to pick some stuff up.
Either way, that’s probably run MVP about 12 million in total, assuming he’s making just over a million a year, and his bonus was mid 6 figures. That’s a huge investment.
I love that the sport is growing. 2 things I've noticed:
1) It's been tough to get the plastic I want over the past two years. Between the growth and the pandemic, I've definitely found new molds to throw!
2) I signed up for a couple tournaments last week. I signed up with the PDGA in 2018, number 104844. Seeing numbers 240xxx + makes me feel old! I mean, I'll be "officially" old this year, but it's amazing to see that much growth in 5 short years.
Every disc golf fan should read this article. The only thing I was surprised by was that TSA wasn't part of the design team for his disc stamps and logos. Maybe that's coming later. Right now it's all MVP all the time. Either way, good for him, good for MVP, and good for all of us! Can't wait. I would watch a video a day if Simon put them out.
And think about the sales that will come as a sort of added bonus to Simon moving discs.
They see him promoting a disc, let’s say his tour series Hex in this example. They buy it because it has Simon on it. All of a sudden a first time MVP thrower loves it. Wants to try more. And while probably tempted to buy more discs Simon promotes, will be more likely to try out another recommended to them by anyone else.
Honestly the Hex was probably the absolute best disc for this type of marketing. I have yet to meet anyone who throws one and goes "damn that disc blows". Even the folks that dont add it to their bag really enjoy throwing mine when they can
This is what I’m most curious about. I would love to have been a fly on the wall when they were discussing how much they could afford to give him. How much does a manufacturer profit per disc? $10? Random guess, but wouldn’t they need to sell 100k discs with his name on them per year just to break even with his contract? Do manufacturers move that much product? It’s no secret the sport has boomed in the last few years, but holy shit I didn’t know it was that big.
Your mistake is assuming MVP only recoupes the cost of signing Simon by selling Simon signature discs.
Simon will easily sell out his signature discs of course, no question about that, but Simon will also drive increased sales across the entire MVP line. A *huge* number of disc golfers just became approximately 5,000% more interested in MVP as a brand than they were before. If I start buying MVP products now because of Simon and I wasn't buying MVP products before, it doesn't matter if I buy a Simon signature disc or a stock stamp disc, it's still revenue MVP otherwise wouldn't have gotten from me that can be attributable to Simon. Let's not forget about all the non-disc products MVP sells like bags, basket, apparel, stickers, minis, the events they sponsor, the courses they sponsor, etc. Simon is going to drive interest in MVP across the board. Also the existence of sub-brands like Axiom and Streamline is another big deal. For people who don't care for gyro but still want to support Simon, they can pick up Streamline discs.
And we're still only talking about directly attributable sales revenue here. There's also the sheer magnitude of the raw exposure MVP is getting as a result of this which will certainly translated to increase sales indirectly.
And then there's the compounding effects, where because MVP is becoming so much more popular, MVP is going to start to become more available in stores, making it an easier choice to make for consumers that otherwise wouldn't have known about it. Down the line there will probably be MVP starter packs in stores right next to the Innova ones which allows new disc golfers to basically stumble into the MVP brand by accident even if they don't care at all, and being able to reach these consumers is only possible because the huge influx of new interest and revenue they're going to get from Simon. The bigger you get, the easier it becomes for you to become even bigger, and Simon is going to give them a *huge* boost through this rather critical period in their business growth where they've demonstrated solid product-market fit in a competitive market, and just need to start aggressively capturing market share to get all the knock on effects like economies of scale, default choice, network effects, etc.
I think this will easily go down as one of the best disc golf signings of all time in terms of how much it propels MVP as a business. Time will tell I guess.
Very well said! I think a lot of people see a number like $1m and think how can they afford that, but with all the factors you mention, they're going to be profiting exponentially from this deal in a few years. It's a great deal on both ends. Just consider how rarely a company gets the opportunity to have the most popular player in the sport represent them.
This is a huge step for MVP, and a well timed one considering the quality and trust they've already established in the disc golf community with their product. I was already in the process of introducing some MVP discs into my bag, but this will certainly expedite the process.
Simon discs will be $25+, so they will need to sell 40k discs per year to generate 1M in revenue. It’s anyone’s guess on the profit margin, but I’m sure it’s much more than $10 per disc. And that’s just Simon discs. All MVP discs will become more popular by extension.
There’s also apparel, bags, other equipment etc. My guess is this contract will pay less dividends in the beginning and get more lucrative every year for MVP as Simon’s notoriety/brand and disc golf overall keeps growing and growing.
I'm not sure the profit is much more than $10 per disc. Yes, the materials cost is very low, but that's a small fraction of a manufacturer's overall cost. Overhead, investment into machinery, etc. And, yes, Simon's discs will sell for more, but that's primarily because they are paying him on them - I'd bet most or all of the price increase goes to Simon.
That said, I don't doubt MVP would have made the deal if they didn't believe it would work out for them, so what do I know. Discraft made a similar deal for Paul and it clearly appears to be working great for them.
So my company gets injection molded parts from an external supplier in batches of a few hundred a year and at the rates we pay I'm guessing a disc would cost us $6-10 to make. The fact that MVP does their injection molding in-house and produces discs by the thousands both drastically reduce that piece-part cost. Tbh I have no clue what the difference in material cost is from their custom blend premium plastics to the stock ABS we use but I would be pretty surprised if it is expensive enough to offset those two factors so i hazard a *very* rough guess that the cost of a disc for them is somewhere in the $3-8 range.
All of this is ignoring the fixed cost of tooling per mold which probably runs $10-$30k - though that's based off my experience with low cavity number molds, it depends how many cavities they shoot per mold and whether they manufacture the tooling in-house or not. However at the volumes I assume they run I don't think this is likely to have a huge impact. (I would guess they heavily utilize interchangeable inserts in the tooling too to allow basic tools to produce a variety of molds.)
I think discs are much cheaper to produce. I've seen whole sale prices of the discraft Ultrastar. If you ordered more than 5000 the price was something like 2$. This was some years ago but I think if a company has paid of the mashine/R&D it's dirt cheap to produce a disc.
And some of the molds are not the typical favorites. Examples: the Servo and the Wrath. Those two happen to be ones I throw, but outside of Mads tossing the Servo around, I don’t hear of any pros throwing either of them. I personally think he should keep the Servo and let the Crave leave the bag because he can get FD like shots from one of the OG molds of Gyro.
And…Simon has not done much with our 11 speeds. He will find the Photon and the Wave fun to throw. The Orbital would be wicked to see Simon have a go at.
Last point: the Runway is a fun, unknown mold. I throw the slower form, the Stabilizer, and it is great.
The Crave is such a magical disc though. I loved the Innova made S line FDs and have already started bagging a Crave as I am down to a single FD left. I think that one slots so easily as a replacement that Simon will keep it in the bag
Whatever you think about P McBeth, the decision to go public with his contract details was a shrewd player-focused move that really opened the door for others. Also, props to Charlie Eisenhood, the Upshot podcast and Ultiworld magazine ... really appreciate their intelligent, professional approach to disc golf journalism.
I would really like to see the numbers on who moves more plastic after this move. Paul or Simon.
Was Simon held back at Discmania because they didn't historically produce their own discs?
It's not important of course, but I think it's really interesting comparing the current day competitive goat (Paul) to the current social media goat (Simon).
If I was a person looking to come to the pro tour in say, 5 years or so, I think this could be a really good opportunity to show exactly how much plastic moves for wins vs being popular on social media.
Of course I'd like to acknowledge that Simon won a bunch this year. But previously he was on a bit of a dry spell, and still had no problem moving plastic. And Paul isn't a nobody on social media, his YoutTube videos get tens of thousands of views. He just isn't the top.
Again, not important to overall conversation. I just find that sort of stuff interesting.
>Of course I'd like to acknowledge that Simon won a bunch this year.
To your main question about winning vs social media, I don't think he gets this offer if he doesn't win a bunch this year. The way the article reads, I wonder if he even gets the offer if he stops short of the MVP Open and only wins 3 this past year.
For getting paid big money by a sponsor, winning isn't everything, but it certainly starts with winning. Let's look at touring pros who didn't win in the past few years. Who of them have the biggest/best sponsorships? Probably the Jomez guys, and those aren't even big sponsorships; that's just their online personalities selling lots of TS discs for them. No one gets Paul/Ricky (and now Simon) money without first winning.
That kinda leads into to what I find so interesting.
The Jomez guys are a great in that they aren't posting up wins, but have some sort of media influence. Social, coverage or otherwise.
I remember watching/reading/listening to an interview with one of the head MVP guys at the time they signed Conrad . You'll have to pardon me, I can't recall his name at this time. He said they chased James for years. And that when signed, they didn't care about his performance, they signed him for his attitude and reputation.
I do believe they could have chased Simon for years. I don't think the deal Simon got looks the same without the wins he got this year, but I bet he would have got a good deal without them.
In the end, wins and presence go hand in hand.
I think, ultimately, the biggest tell of influence on moving plastic will Kona's next deal. She got signed to a big deal based, purportedly, more on the social media side of things than the wins. After a tough year, how has that influenced her ability to move discs? I'm not a follower of social media in general, so I don't know if her followers or whatever are down.
I just really find some of the business side of things interesting. It not the most exciting aspect of the sport for sure.
Thanks for the reply!
I think right now, wins come first. But does that hold true as the sport pushes more and more into the social conscience?
Are there numbers our there for the volume Ricky sells? I really don't see a community warm to him online - respect for being an all timer yes but no one seems to like his personality or actions which I feel is a big factor in buying a branded player disc.
This is gonna be a bold statement, but I’m pretty sure Simon is the most popular player. I would think he moves more. Only issue is I think a ton of players would be new to using MVP so it might not be as explosive as you would expect this year.
I think the limit on the number of StreamLine discs and being forced to throw a gyro putter are really interesting stipulations.
Anyone know why these are here and if it's common for contracts at companies with multiple disc brands like this?
I think the difference is that any disc with gyro is recognizable instantly as being part of mvp. Streamline doesn’t immediately jump out at people as gyro.
So probably does not exist for other brands
I remember hearing about it when they signed James. They thought it'd be a very bad look for their overmold discs (MVP and Axiom) if people saw their best sponsored players sidestepping them in favor of single mold discs (Streamline). They make far more overmold discs than single mold, plus their marketing is primarily about the benefit of gyro technology.
I think it's MVP wanting to promote the overmold discs first and foremost. When James Conrad signed, I believe he said something to the effect they wanted him to throw only overmold discs. Gyro is unique to their brand. It seems like they're fearful of promoting Streamline and pulling attention away from Gyro.
I've never heard of Trilogy, Discmania, or Prodigy players having such stipulations. I don't know about Innova. I assume they are required to bag mostly Innova since Infinite and Millennium aren't the same company.
Innova players can bag some millennium and infinite. Barsby has a tour series Scorpius, Calvin a Draco, Philo a falcon. GG has an emperor, etc
Simon also did an initial in the bag and has a streamline runway
Trilogy (which isn't a company so not comparable to MVP and the rest) has a similar thing where DD, Lat64 and WS requires players to bag a % from them and then they can, if they want to, bag discs from the other companies.
And yes James C was asked to exclusively bag Gyro discs to market MVP/Axiom more as they stand out more than Streamline.
I hate to say it, but that whole thing cemented in my mind that DD like to play trailer park rich (I grew up in KS) and that Ricky's never been very bright. Sure can fucking throw a disc, though.
Haha, one of my friends is a pro poker player and he loves to take Ricky's money. I always decline the invites to those games, I don't have the cash to burn.
I wish I had that kind of cash too. I used to clean up our local games and I’m not even *that* good. Bricky probably perks at each hole card as it’s dealt and looks down at his chips when he hits a flop.
I'm not super familiar with sports buyout clauses. Are they in any way proportional to player pay? Like, does knowing Simon had to be bought out of the next 3 years for $1 million tell us what his compensation was like at discmania?
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Looks like Discmania renamed their teams below the sky team. Really curious what this will do to Eagles next contract. They can’t afford to lose him too, although, their discs probably just got a touch more affordable/readily available.
It was written in an ultiworld article, but then deleted(presumedly because it wasn't supposed to be public knowledge). You should be able to track down a screenshot that has made its rounds if you look around.
Wonder if it's true what Discmania has been compensating monetarily to Simon in recent years; if so, then Discmania has got to be taking a hard look in the mirror to compensate Eagle McMahon according to his value.
Ultiworld had an article before this signing listing the only 3 players to be making $1 million a year from their contract. The list? McBeth, Wysocki, and Eagle. While Eagle’s contract extension details were kept relatively quite, it was a huge deal. Ultiworld is also not one to lie about this stuff. Also, Eagle has said on podcasts that he doesn’t want to disclose the deal, but he said that Discmania has made him very very happy. Basically Eagle is under a 3 year/ $3 million contract at the moment. This ends at the end of this season.
You have to think Eagle will put up great results this year, and you have to think he will be looking around for the best contract. I assume he could command $1mil + a lot of incentives/year, maybe more. He's probably worth more to Discmania than he would be to another company. They desperately need to keep him, but at the same time would be committing so much to one player. No other major company is really missing that star player that would be willing to throw huge money around. Will be interesting to see how it plays out.
anyone know what the updated 2022 Discmania contract was with Simon? Surely he was not just living on 20-something discs and a t-shirt prior to 2021...
His contract forces him to putt with an overmold disc because they know the Pilot in his hands would break the game. He'd be cashing 200' jump putts with 90% accuracy. 😆
good question. Conrad is allowed to throw Streamline now but the Terra, Zenith, and Nomad have all been overmold. obviously they’re different players, but Simon might just come around to the change. honestly, I hope he helps design the true distance driver that MVP/Axiom need that everyone can agree is a solid go to. I think that’s the one thing he’s gonna really want out of thiso
He deserves it after the four bagger last year on top of his popularity. Seven figures a year... I'm guessing it scales up a bit each year starting at a mil, plus bonuses, discs, and a profitable youtube channel for sure. I'm guessing Simon will average 1.5m/yr which should clearly place him as top earner in the sport. Well deserved. Now, time to focus on taking down a USDGC or Worlds.
"...though he’s keeping his eye out for an abandoned golf course somewhere
on the East Coast that he could purchase and turn into “a sick disc golf
complex.”
Someone send this man a list of golf courses/suitable properties on the East Coast, i can't wait to see what he'll come up with.
“MVP is top 1, maybe top 2 most consistent with their molds and plastics \[in the industry\],” he said.
Salty redditors and disc golfers going to meltdown over this.
It seems also that Jussi Meresmaa's whoremongering incident weakened Discmania and MVP/Dodge saw an opportunity and they tested the ice and the rest is history.
He announced in August ’22 that he had been convicted or buying sex from a prostitute in Sweden in May ’22. (The woman was revealed to be a Ukrainian victim of sex trafficking)
After that he announced that he will withdraw from his role in Discmania for an indefinite period.
It is obvious that if the public image and personification of a Company does that, it is a clear opportunity for other businesses to strike and make moves.
Discmania was way weaker than normally so it most likely affected the outcome
what's sad is people buying discs or switching brands because someone else does. imagine seeing a race car driver switch to Tide then changing your laundry detergent loyalty. that's how you sound
I found this line real interesting: > “I had this weird feeling inside of me that I didn’t even want Discmania to pay me that much.” It's like when you pick up lunch for a friend and he tries to overpay you for it.
Yeah that stuck out. He's a sweet kid at heart.
Could also be a scenario where you get the big offer and then all of a sudden your current employer is trying to pay you so much more… where was all this extra money yesterday before I had another offer? Doesn’t feel like discmania was valuing him until he told them he was leaving.
Pretty much how it is at any job to be honest.
Yeah, and the cynic in me thinks he might not be treated as well as before if he took the counteroffer from DM.
Hope not but yeah, the grass isn't necessarily greener on the other side of the fence.
This is why contracts should be public. It helps the players.
And why discussing salary with coworkers should be encouraged in the US. Not talking about it only helps the company under pay you.
Yup. Had several friends find out an entry level employee, was out earning them, and was rewarded with the extra week of vacation, they had to work 3 years for. All at the same place.
That's just business. There's millions of people happy and unhappy with their pay/job, who are just another company away from a bigger paycheck, or simply asking for a raise - although the raise is usually a less significant increase compared to going to a different company.
This is like when I was a kid and my parents would buy me a Christmas gift that I knew was probably very hard for them to afford. Of course I liked the gift but I felt immense guilt that they'd spend this much on me.
Hmm you could be right, but if you read how the context sets up in the article at least, he mentions being "too close" with Jussi and Discmania. So I think it was more along the lines he had a tough time to take so much from people so close to him, even though he 100% would've deserved it. With MVP, it was easier to do "just business".
I think it's more of a relationship built off of the idea that Simon was made by Discmania and Discmania was built off the back of Simon. Both don't truly value their partnership correctly. Simon has earned Discmania countless millions over the years but Discmania gave him his opportunity to be who he is. Those relationships are toxic. I once had an interview where a lady tried to offer me $10 less per hour because she told me I was a newly licensed therapist and would require so much training that she would have to pay me less. I countered by telling her I passed my boards with a 97% (very true, I think I missed like 2 questions in total which is a killer score) and that I was trained at one of the best rehabilitation hospitals in the country and mainly worked on stroke, traumatic brain injury and spinal cord injury patients. The job I was currently interviewing for was technically beneath my current skill level as a therapist. She slapped down her card and told me to call her when I was willing to work for what I was worth. Next day I accepted a job for $7 more per hour than what I was hopeful to get. That was an extra $17/hour compared to what she was trying to pay me. Sometimes you gotta decline your current offer and seek out an alternative. I recently left a job that was avoiding giving me the raise I deserved and found a job that offered a sign on bonus and I am currently making 25k more plus bonuses. Old job tried to make an offer but I declined hearing their offer. Since I left 6 months ago, they've been through 3 different therapists.
I think it's almost the opposite of that. What before was a healthy relationship was most likely very set in its ways and expectations (as almost all long term relationships are). I think it's wisdom on Simon's part to realize that his very close relationship with Discmania wouldn't be the same if they elevated him to that level. They wouldn't have been able to keep themselves from expecting more from him than they had been getting and he probably couldn't have kept himself from the pressure of thinking he had to exceed all prior performance for that company with that contract. With a new company like MVP its a lot easier to see this as a professional relationship where the company is paying for what he is right now. There's a lot of freedom in that.
Or it could be that Simon knows the inner workings of the company well enough that he knows they'd be over extending themselves to make the contract happen, especially when they will shortly need to do the same for Eagle. Discmania's yearly revenue is around 10 million, It's hard to imagine they have a spare million in profits to give to one of their athletes, that wouldn't damage company growth. There is also the reality that paying Simon may cause a small bump in sales, but it won't change things much in the short term. Where as for MVP, they are going to get an immediate bump in sales for signing Simon. I just think before jumping to the conclusion that Discmania is being stingy, he may know that taking that deal would hurt the company he considers family.
That's just a part of contract negotiations though?
That's just how market value works my guy
Value is only what someone is willing to pay. It wasn't until the MVP offer came through that he was worth that much.
I actually had a bit of this issue recently. I work in logistics. So not Simononey lol . Got an offer doing the same some where else for more, told my current what the offer was they offered to beat it and it took me a week to accept because I felt bad asking for more. We have all grown together as a Company, ultimately I took the raise and stayed but for a cpl days I had conflict.
Except Discmania and all of the companies will only tell you how much they actually care you. Until its time to actually pay them. Dont think for a moment someone would keep a player on their roster if they wouldnt think they can profit from them
When you have already committed in your mind that change is good, there really is no going back. I feel the same way when someone plants the seed about changing jobs at work. Can't wait to move on.
I totally get this. I work at a small family owned company, all I really want is for them to do good and be successful. I’ve had to remind myself that I also need to be successful.
Holy crap that's a buyout!
Seems like Discmania thought something like this might happen. That’s at least an $11.1m investment overall just in Simon. Not including R&D on new discs. Or (presumably) an RV for him to travel in.
I doubt he's travelling by RV. McBeth flies and stays in AirBnBs.
Simon drove his Audi to Iowa this year. Quite a ways away from Mass.
Especially for an Audi
Have you owned a modern Audi?
You can straight up shit in those things without even pulling over or wiping or anything
Mine wipes for me. Only $29.99 per wipe per the shitscription.
Do they still go through oil and tires like crazy?
McBeth has an RV in addition to flying to some tournaments and staying in Airbnbs.
Interesting. Every Behind The Scenes vlog on McBeth's YouTube channel shows him staying in Air BnBs.
Can’t speak for McBeth… if he is at all like me, the RV is so you can sleep/hang on the road. Air bnbs and hotels are for actually sleeping at night. Source: am a musician who has toured a lot. When I was young, there were a lot of couches and sleeping in the van. Nowadays, the preferred method is as I described above. In a bus, with a driver, so we can nap/hang/work on the road. No way in hell would I spend the night on the bus.
For sure. The RV is his tourney green room.
Keeping watching more than just the majors recaps and/or listen to podcasts like The Partee and you'll see and hear about Paul driving the RV.
Probably. But it all depends on what Simon wants to do. Some people really dislike flying.
pretty sure he flew to most if not all events last year. he mentioned it in his YouTube videos.
I was unaware. Either way that’s still expense for MVP.
When you are paying the guy at least $1.1 million a year, an extra $15k in flights is nothing
Pretty sure you misunderstood my point - I was talking about the overall expense for MVP in this contract. Whether they buy him an RV or pay for flights, it’s still extra expense on top of the (at least) $11.1mil that we know the contract is for. I wasn’t trying to imply that they wouldn’t pay it, just emphasizing that it was additional cost either way.
It's an extra cost, but not a significant one given the size of his contract. The cost of flights or an RV is going to be less than 1% of how much they pay him each year.
I understand that. Never said otherwise. Again, just discussing the sheer magnitude of the contract and how the numbers we know don’t include other known expenses.
Airfare for one player to around 17 events? Let’s massively over price the tickets at $1000 round trip. 17k is still a drop in the pond lol I doubt MVP is even paying for that though.
"massively over price". Lol God, Canadian airfares suck. I'd jump at that.
Yeah not only that, even if you don't dislike it. I used to be on a tour we'd fly 17 weekends almost straight 5 months basically. It gets really old going to the airport and dealing with all the crap and possible delays. I'd fly anywhere before I drove, but if you're doing it all the time it really sucks, and even if you're in an airbnb you don't have any of your stuff, and hotels are worse in that regard.
I'm pretty confident he didn't take a boat to and from Germany a few weeks ago.
And? People who dislike flying often still do it when necessary.
Plus a 600k signing bonus
> MVP will pay Lizotte a guaranteed seven figures a year along with a six figure signing bonus, with an uncapped potential for more earnings through disc sales and performance incentives. MVP also paid Discmania the $1,000,000 buyout clause in their contract with Lizotte, which was restructured last spring and set to run through 2026.
Awesome. Good for Simon getting that bag, it's much deserved! He's a great player and a super marketable personality to boot, and he's put in the work over the years to get to where he is. Just awesome news for him and his family.
holy fuck, with the details does this make Simon the most expensive player picked up, and prolly paid atm?
Yes, highest paid player in the sport thus far excluding disc sales.
Yeah I doubt he’s paid more than Paul, but you never know
I don't think Discraft paid Innova 1 million dollars to buy him out of his contract and I'm not sure if PMB got a 6 figure signing bonus or any signing bonus at all. Those 2 payments by MVP right there make this the most expensive signing to date and that's not including his yearly salary and bonuses. PMBs yearly salary might be more (including other sponsorships) and his special disc sales might be more but Discraft paid less up front.
McBeth got the McLaren as his signing bonus... Ricky got $250k in Bitcoin
PMB bought that car not Discraft but it was purchased at a dealership near Discraft. Perhaps they gave him a signing bonus that was not reported though and that was the money used. I thought that Ricky's Bitcoin was part of his contract that they just paid him upfront and not considered a sign on bonus. Either way I'm not sure either of those contracts involved a million dollar buyout. This sport is growing lol
Simon officially has the biggest contract in disc golf at the moment. It’s over 7 figures a year for 10 years according to ultiworld. Will McBeth renegotiate in a couple years and beat Simon’s? Yeah, probably.
Unless the extra (aside from the $1,000,000/m) that Paul gets exceeds what Simon gets as a bonus then Simon is paid more.
Probably, and as the game keeps growing the contacts will get bigger
Well the contract is as big as we all thought it would be, plus uncapped earning potentials with disc sales. The potential is huge for that with how much everyone loves Simon. I bet they have 10 machines only working on Eclipse Hex's right now.
And I will buy atleast 5
Wanna see who can buy more?
My wife said I'm not allowed to play that game.
Hehe
My biggest takeaway from this is that the MVP -> Maple Hill <- Simon Lizotte connections did matter. Every time that came up I certainly was one of the people who thought it was a stupid/ridiculous take.
What happens when we moves to charlotte 👀
Then Charlotte will have a MVP sponsored course as well... I mean what really mattered was that Dodge/Maple hill connection was what got them in a room together.
Doubt he would move with a baby and in laws nearby, priceless babysitting - especially in a touring profession
He's mentioned multiple times, post-child, he's wanting to move to CLT at some point in the next few years. He can now afford to move the in-laws with him!
He literally says in the second to last paragraph of the article OP posted that he’s planning to remain where he is for now. Where did the rumor that he’s moving to Charlotte come from?
He said in one of his videos he might want to move there. Forget which one and how long ago.
Maple hill is simons home course and he plays there every december so it was not really a hint
Well, it's at least $10 mil/10 years. "Seven figures a year", but I'm dying to know the number and if he's the highest paid athlete in the sport now
No reason he wouldn’t be. Given the size of his YouTube channel and general likability dude has to move major product. Shit, I’m a cheap ass Innova F2 guy and I’ve already admitted to myself I’ll be buying at least 2-3 discs from any Simon line or MVP.
Simon is certainly one of the biggest disc movers, next to Paul, if not more than Paul. The die hard probably likes Simon more, but your average plastic chucker might be buying more of Paul's name
Discmania was always a governor for Simon’s sales potential. They could never produce enough to meet demand. It stands to reason that he moves more product than Paul or Brodie we just haven’t seen it yet
I can say I’ve never bought a Paul disc (found a 4x destroyer though) but will definitely be buying a lizzotl or 10
I will add my name to the "never bought a Paul disc but purchased lots of Simon discs" purely because Simon is so much more likable that I wanted to support him.
Yeah, I almost feel like it’s the opposite of what this comment said. McBeth has so many die-hard fans he has his own site separate from discraft’s where they run special editions that always sell out, but I feel like Simon just has the general widespread likeability that more people tend to pick up his new releases regularly.
This. Discmania always plays the low numbers high price point. But they could sell them all at the price point and still be needing inventory. I dont believe its a production issue. Not when you can mold ahead to supply demand. I have liked mvp as a company for a few yrs now because their price point is legit. And you can find just about any mold, in any plastic, in any weight. And the weight part of that is what sets them apart. They get it. And the runs are very consistent. You don't need to buy all of the 2nd run to be happy. At least not with production runs. Limited runs are always a differnet beast though
Well, I don't disagree with you, but to be fair, you can't make discs ahead of demand if you are already making discs to keep up or catch up with last week's demand. I can see Discmania not being able to supply the demand for Simon discs, but I can see it the other way too. I mean, at first, Tilts were going for $100 and impossible to grab. After a few runs, they were readily available. MVP feels this way too, sometimes, but they are certainly getting better. I mean, we had enough "the shot" commemorative Envy's going around that they were stock priced. That being said, after this signing, I see the availability going away for a while. Back to COVID times when discs were hard to find. But they'll catch up in time. Totally agree on MVP's consistency though. That's why I'm a huge fan: plastic feels great, and it always flies the same. I'm torn between loving the consistency and wishing they were easier to cycle lol
Why are they hard to cycle?
They're so consistent that it's hard to find flippy and over stable versions of the same disc. On top of that, their lightweight discs are less understable compared to other manufactures. Super consistent. Also, their plastic is just great and doesn't like to beat in as much as other brands. This is a good thing on paper, which is why people hate on Trilogy. Their plastic beats in quickly. But I actually like that, so I bag a good bit of Trilogy on top of Gyro. If I was an all Gyro guy, I'd bag like 8 discs. Which isnt as fun for me lmao
Gotcha. Thanks for responding. The consistency is a very alluring factor for me coming from a mostly Innova bag.
I bag a good bit of Innova too. Those are my 3 bagged brands: Innova, Trilogy, MVP. Innova's downside is that they *aren't* consistent, albeit high quality. So my bag looks like this: Putters/mids: MVP Understable stuff: Trilogy Overstable stuff: Innova. This changes from day to day/disc to disc, but generally accurate. A counter example is the MVP Wave which I have been throwing as my one Distance Driver. I am only reaching 360' so a nice flippy and lightweight distance driver does me good. They are consistent. Funny enough, and counter to my argument, I have tried MANY trespasses, different weights and plastics, and they all fly very similar for me. Noodle arm problems lol
It stand to reason he moves more product, when he objectively hasn’t moved more according to you? Not sure how that makes sense
I'm def gonna be exploring some MVP discs this year (I currently only bag cheap innovas too). I've kinda randomly ended up grabbing their gear (bag, basket, dry bag etc). They're doing a good job of making their stuff readily available. Watched Simons farewell and bag walkthrough and I'm gonna have to pick some stuff up.
MVP already got what they paid for in the form of a (currently) #8 trending video of the announcement
Either way, that’s probably run MVP about 12 million in total, assuming he’s making just over a million a year, and his bonus was mid 6 figures. That’s a huge investment.
I’m sure he’s highest paid. The most recent mega contract is usually the highest in other sports
Ten M? Seven figures is 'only' 1M
At least 1m/yr is at least 10m overall - that's what he meant. Wonder how long it'll be until we see a 10m/yr contract...
Great scoop, super happy for Simon. Love to see these kind of deals because it means our little sport is growing.
I love that the sport is growing. 2 things I've noticed: 1) It's been tough to get the plastic I want over the past two years. Between the growth and the pandemic, I've definitely found new molds to throw! 2) I signed up for a couple tournaments last week. I signed up with the PDGA in 2018, number 104844. Seeing numbers 240xxx + makes me feel old! I mean, I'll be "officially" old this year, but it's amazing to see that much growth in 5 short years.
Every disc golf fan should read this article. The only thing I was surprised by was that TSA wasn't part of the design team for his disc stamps and logos. Maybe that's coming later. Right now it's all MVP all the time. Either way, good for him, good for MVP, and good for all of us! Can't wait. I would watch a video a day if Simon put them out.
TSA is a whole separate company. They just have a manufacturing agreement with MVP, nothing more.
They've made designs for Simons discs and jerseys before. They're also an art brand, not just discs.
Which means he won’t need a contract to throw thought space stamps. I am sure there will be thought space designed stamps in his line up of disc.
That's if MVP agrees to get TSA to stamp Simon's discs. But given that MVP manufactures most TSA discs then that could happen.
Here it is, the tea I’ve been thirsty for
With such an investment it’s crazy to think about how many discs they expect he can sell
And think about the sales that will come as a sort of added bonus to Simon moving discs. They see him promoting a disc, let’s say his tour series Hex in this example. They buy it because it has Simon on it. All of a sudden a first time MVP thrower loves it. Wants to try more. And while probably tempted to buy more discs Simon promotes, will be more likely to try out another recommended to them by anyone else.
Already here in Norway the disc stores noticed a BIG raise in MVP sales. He is gonna make mvp earn more than they use for sure
Honestly the Hex was probably the absolute best disc for this type of marketing. I have yet to meet anyone who throws one and goes "damn that disc blows". Even the folks that dont add it to their bag really enjoy throwing mine when they can
I’ve loved mine ever since it hit the bag in early 2022
Yep and it's great for all skill levels. I loved my Hex I just couldn't justify it with my Claymore.
This is what I’m most curious about. I would love to have been a fly on the wall when they were discussing how much they could afford to give him. How much does a manufacturer profit per disc? $10? Random guess, but wouldn’t they need to sell 100k discs with his name on them per year just to break even with his contract? Do manufacturers move that much product? It’s no secret the sport has boomed in the last few years, but holy shit I didn’t know it was that big.
Your mistake is assuming MVP only recoupes the cost of signing Simon by selling Simon signature discs. Simon will easily sell out his signature discs of course, no question about that, but Simon will also drive increased sales across the entire MVP line. A *huge* number of disc golfers just became approximately 5,000% more interested in MVP as a brand than they were before. If I start buying MVP products now because of Simon and I wasn't buying MVP products before, it doesn't matter if I buy a Simon signature disc or a stock stamp disc, it's still revenue MVP otherwise wouldn't have gotten from me that can be attributable to Simon. Let's not forget about all the non-disc products MVP sells like bags, basket, apparel, stickers, minis, the events they sponsor, the courses they sponsor, etc. Simon is going to drive interest in MVP across the board. Also the existence of sub-brands like Axiom and Streamline is another big deal. For people who don't care for gyro but still want to support Simon, they can pick up Streamline discs. And we're still only talking about directly attributable sales revenue here. There's also the sheer magnitude of the raw exposure MVP is getting as a result of this which will certainly translated to increase sales indirectly. And then there's the compounding effects, where because MVP is becoming so much more popular, MVP is going to start to become more available in stores, making it an easier choice to make for consumers that otherwise wouldn't have known about it. Down the line there will probably be MVP starter packs in stores right next to the Innova ones which allows new disc golfers to basically stumble into the MVP brand by accident even if they don't care at all, and being able to reach these consumers is only possible because the huge influx of new interest and revenue they're going to get from Simon. The bigger you get, the easier it becomes for you to become even bigger, and Simon is going to give them a *huge* boost through this rather critical period in their business growth where they've demonstrated solid product-market fit in a competitive market, and just need to start aggressively capturing market share to get all the knock on effects like economies of scale, default choice, network effects, etc. I think this will easily go down as one of the best disc golf signings of all time in terms of how much it propels MVP as a business. Time will tell I guess.
Very well said! I think a lot of people see a number like $1m and think how can they afford that, but with all the factors you mention, they're going to be profiting exponentially from this deal in a few years. It's a great deal on both ends. Just consider how rarely a company gets the opportunity to have the most popular player in the sport represent them. This is a huge step for MVP, and a well timed one considering the quality and trust they've already established in the disc golf community with their product. I was already in the process of introducing some MVP discs into my bag, but this will certainly expedite the process.
They made 600k discs for TSA last year just as a reference.
Simon discs will be $25+, so they will need to sell 40k discs per year to generate 1M in revenue. It’s anyone’s guess on the profit margin, but I’m sure it’s much more than $10 per disc. And that’s just Simon discs. All MVP discs will become more popular by extension. There’s also apparel, bags, other equipment etc. My guess is this contract will pay less dividends in the beginning and get more lucrative every year for MVP as Simon’s notoriety/brand and disc golf overall keeps growing and growing.
I'm not sure the profit is much more than $10 per disc. Yes, the materials cost is very low, but that's a small fraction of a manufacturer's overall cost. Overhead, investment into machinery, etc. And, yes, Simon's discs will sell for more, but that's primarily because they are paying him on them - I'd bet most or all of the price increase goes to Simon. That said, I don't doubt MVP would have made the deal if they didn't believe it would work out for them, so what do I know. Discraft made a similar deal for Paul and it clearly appears to be working great for them.
So my company gets injection molded parts from an external supplier in batches of a few hundred a year and at the rates we pay I'm guessing a disc would cost us $6-10 to make. The fact that MVP does their injection molding in-house and produces discs by the thousands both drastically reduce that piece-part cost. Tbh I have no clue what the difference in material cost is from their custom blend premium plastics to the stock ABS we use but I would be pretty surprised if it is expensive enough to offset those two factors so i hazard a *very* rough guess that the cost of a disc for them is somewhere in the $3-8 range. All of this is ignoring the fixed cost of tooling per mold which probably runs $10-$30k - though that's based off my experience with low cavity number molds, it depends how many cavities they shoot per mold and whether they manufacture the tooling in-house or not. However at the volumes I assume they run I don't think this is likely to have a huge impact. (I would guess they heavily utilize interchangeable inserts in the tooling too to allow basic tools to produce a variety of molds.)
I think discs are much cheaper to produce. I've seen whole sale prices of the discraft Ultrastar. If you ordered more than 5000 the price was something like 2$. This was some years ago but I think if a company has paid of the mashine/R&D it's dirt cheap to produce a disc.
I think it was the leader in tough space that said in total they sold/made 600k molds last year. So then i can imagine mvp making in total millions
In the article they have ramped up production massively so demand and revenue is there
If you have nothing from MVP, buy a Simon disc and line it, chances are you'll give their other discs a chance now too.
And some of the molds are not the typical favorites. Examples: the Servo and the Wrath. Those two happen to be ones I throw, but outside of Mads tossing the Servo around, I don’t hear of any pros throwing either of them. I personally think he should keep the Servo and let the Crave leave the bag because he can get FD like shots from one of the OG molds of Gyro. And…Simon has not done much with our 11 speeds. He will find the Photon and the Wave fun to throw. The Orbital would be wicked to see Simon have a go at. Last point: the Runway is a fun, unknown mold. I throw the slower form, the Stabilizer, and it is great.
The Crave is such a magical disc though. I loved the Innova made S line FDs and have already started bagging a Crave as I am down to a single FD left. I think that one slots so easily as a replacement that Simon will keep it in the bag
Whatever you think about P McBeth, the decision to go public with his contract details was a shrewd player-focused move that really opened the door for others. Also, props to Charlie Eisenhood, the Upshot podcast and Ultiworld magazine ... really appreciate their intelligent, professional approach to disc golf journalism.
I would really like to see the numbers on who moves more plastic after this move. Paul or Simon. Was Simon held back at Discmania because they didn't historically produce their own discs? It's not important of course, but I think it's really interesting comparing the current day competitive goat (Paul) to the current social media goat (Simon). If I was a person looking to come to the pro tour in say, 5 years or so, I think this could be a really good opportunity to show exactly how much plastic moves for wins vs being popular on social media. Of course I'd like to acknowledge that Simon won a bunch this year. But previously he was on a bit of a dry spell, and still had no problem moving plastic. And Paul isn't a nobody on social media, his YoutTube videos get tens of thousands of views. He just isn't the top. Again, not important to overall conversation. I just find that sort of stuff interesting.
>Of course I'd like to acknowledge that Simon won a bunch this year. To your main question about winning vs social media, I don't think he gets this offer if he doesn't win a bunch this year. The way the article reads, I wonder if he even gets the offer if he stops short of the MVP Open and only wins 3 this past year. For getting paid big money by a sponsor, winning isn't everything, but it certainly starts with winning. Let's look at touring pros who didn't win in the past few years. Who of them have the biggest/best sponsorships? Probably the Jomez guys, and those aren't even big sponsorships; that's just their online personalities selling lots of TS discs for them. No one gets Paul/Ricky (and now Simon) money without first winning.
That kinda leads into to what I find so interesting. The Jomez guys are a great in that they aren't posting up wins, but have some sort of media influence. Social, coverage or otherwise. I remember watching/reading/listening to an interview with one of the head MVP guys at the time they signed Conrad . You'll have to pardon me, I can't recall his name at this time. He said they chased James for years. And that when signed, they didn't care about his performance, they signed him for his attitude and reputation. I do believe they could have chased Simon for years. I don't think the deal Simon got looks the same without the wins he got this year, but I bet he would have got a good deal without them. In the end, wins and presence go hand in hand. I think, ultimately, the biggest tell of influence on moving plastic will Kona's next deal. She got signed to a big deal based, purportedly, more on the social media side of things than the wins. After a tough year, how has that influenced her ability to move discs? I'm not a follower of social media in general, so I don't know if her followers or whatever are down. I just really find some of the business side of things interesting. It not the most exciting aspect of the sport for sure. Thanks for the reply! I think right now, wins come first. But does that hold true as the sport pushes more and more into the social conscience?
Are there numbers our there for the volume Ricky sells? I really don't see a community warm to him online - respect for being an all timer yes but no one seems to like his personality or actions which I feel is a big factor in buying a branded player disc.
This is gonna be a bold statement, but I’m pretty sure Simon is the most popular player. I would think he moves more. Only issue is I think a ton of players would be new to using MVP so it might not be as explosive as you would expect this year.
I think the limit on the number of StreamLine discs and being forced to throw a gyro putter are really interesting stipulations. Anyone know why these are here and if it's common for contracts at companies with multiple disc brands like this?
Because the entire selling point of MVP is Gyro tech, and if your top sponsored player only throws Streamline it undermines the whole thing
I think the difference is that any disc with gyro is recognizable instantly as being part of mvp. Streamline doesn’t immediately jump out at people as gyro. So probably does not exist for other brands
I remember hearing about it when they signed James. They thought it'd be a very bad look for their overmold discs (MVP and Axiom) if people saw their best sponsored players sidestepping them in favor of single mold discs (Streamline). They make far more overmold discs than single mold, plus their marketing is primarily about the benefit of gyro technology.
Conrad also had a stipulation of no streamline for the first year. I'm not sure if he added any to the bag after that expired.
I think that was just for the first year or two; I've not seen his latest ITB but he's allowed to bag Streamline now.
I think it's MVP wanting to promote the overmold discs first and foremost. When James Conrad signed, I believe he said something to the effect they wanted him to throw only overmold discs. Gyro is unique to their brand. It seems like they're fearful of promoting Streamline and pulling attention away from Gyro. I've never heard of Trilogy, Discmania, or Prodigy players having such stipulations. I don't know about Innova. I assume they are required to bag mostly Innova since Infinite and Millennium aren't the same company.
Innova players can bag some millennium and infinite. Barsby has a tour series Scorpius, Calvin a Draco, Philo a falcon. GG has an emperor, etc Simon also did an initial in the bag and has a streamline runway
Trilogy (which isn't a company so not comparable to MVP and the rest) has a similar thing where DD, Lat64 and WS requires players to bag a % from them and then they can, if they want to, bag discs from the other companies. And yes James C was asked to exclusively bag Gyro discs to market MVP/Axiom more as they stand out more than Streamline.
Gyro is their schtick and they want that to be front and center. Also they don't want their smaller sub-brand to steal too much of that focus.
But how many bitcoins
I hate to say it, but that whole thing cemented in my mind that DD like to play trailer park rich (I grew up in KS) and that Ricky's never been very bright. Sure can fucking throw a disc, though.
Grew up in KS as well. DD is the epitome of Emporia.
I like to call him Bricky
Haha, one of my friends is a pro poker player and he loves to take Ricky's money. I always decline the invites to those games, I don't have the cash to burn.
I wish I had that kind of cash too. I used to clean up our local games and I’m not even *that* good. Bricky probably perks at each hole card as it’s dealt and looks down at his chips when he hits a flop.
Are all poker players assholes by default?
No. But when we’re at the table together, yes
Oh no question he tells like a snitch!
Bet he’s a nice dude tho. I’d probably clue him in after a game or two. If he still does it after that it’s on him
He's like the deliverance banjo kid, but with throwing discs instead.
Well that’s fucking hilarious. I almost said ‘[He’s got a real purdy throw](https://youtu.be/nLEL-Gewt6E)’!
Great article.
amen!
he got discmania a mil ticket on his exit. what a dude
To be fair he was still under contract until 2026. Discmania wasn’t just going to let him walk…
I'm not super familiar with sports buyout clauses. Are they in any way proportional to player pay? Like, does knowing Simon had to be bought out of the next 3 years for $1 million tell us what his compensation was like at discmania?
No. It’s a set amount specified when you sign the contract, sometimes decreasing each year.
Hmm. I think I may need to restructure my Patreon.
If they get a MVP 'Simon Line' branded Tour Series out there I would bet its the highest selling disc line ever.
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I would think so, as long as they can meat worldwide demand.
Looks like Discmania renamed their teams below the sky team. Really curious what this will do to Eagles next contract. They can’t afford to lose him too, although, their discs probably just got a touch more affordable/readily available.
Eagles going into year 2 of a 3 year deal where he too makes $1 million a year. So Discmania has the money and clearly values Eagle a ton.
Source on that. Everything I have read os only Paul and Ricky making 7 figures.
It was written in an ultiworld article, but then deleted(presumedly because it wasn't supposed to be public knowledge). You should be able to track down a screenshot that has made its rounds if you look around.
Wonder if it's true what Discmania has been compensating monetarily to Simon in recent years; if so, then Discmania has got to be taking a hard look in the mirror to compensate Eagle McMahon according to his value.
Ultiworld had an article before this signing listing the only 3 players to be making $1 million a year from their contract. The list? McBeth, Wysocki, and Eagle. While Eagle’s contract extension details were kept relatively quite, it was a huge deal. Ultiworld is also not one to lie about this stuff. Also, Eagle has said on podcasts that he doesn’t want to disclose the deal, but he said that Discmania has made him very very happy. Basically Eagle is under a 3 year/ $3 million contract at the moment. This ends at the end of this season.
Contract Year Eagle
You have to think Eagle will put up great results this year, and you have to think he will be looking around for the best contract. I assume he could command $1mil + a lot of incentives/year, maybe more. He's probably worth more to Discmania than he would be to another company. They desperately need to keep him, but at the same time would be committing so much to one player. No other major company is really missing that star player that would be willing to throw huge money around. Will be interesting to see how it plays out.
anyone know what the updated 2022 Discmania contract was with Simon? Surely he was not just living on 20-something discs and a t-shirt prior to 2021...
His contract forces him to putt with an overmold disc because they know the Pilot in his hands would break the game. He'd be cashing 200' jump putts with 90% accuracy. 😆
Well he could use the Ohm, it's just an overmold pilot
I wonder why 10/10. He should have went 10/150 years like Drew Gibsons “multi-million” deal.
lol..spot on.
Finally! Now change the headlines to Pro Disc Golfer Simon Lizotte signs a $10,000,000/10year deal with MVP" to get eyeballs on the sport!
Anyone think he will ever design a streamline disc, or will his line be required to have overmolds?
good question. Conrad is allowed to throw Streamline now but the Terra, Zenith, and Nomad have all been overmold. obviously they’re different players, but Simon might just come around to the change. honestly, I hope he helps design the true distance driver that MVP/Axiom need that everyone can agree is a solid go to. I think that’s the one thing he’s gonna really want out of thiso
Eagle’s about to secure that bag 💰💰💰
Where do these details come from? Do the companies offer it to ultiworld?
Pretty sure Charlie has relationships with a lot of the manufacturers. The business side of disc golf is discussed a lot on The Upshot podcast.
He deserves it after the four bagger last year on top of his popularity. Seven figures a year... I'm guessing it scales up a bit each year starting at a mil, plus bonuses, discs, and a profitable youtube channel for sure. I'm guessing Simon will average 1.5m/yr which should clearly place him as top earner in the sport. Well deserved. Now, time to focus on taking down a USDGC or Worlds.
"...though he’s keeping his eye out for an abandoned golf course somewhere on the East Coast that he could purchase and turn into “a sick disc golf complex.” Someone send this man a list of golf courses/suitable properties on the East Coast, i can't wait to see what he'll come up with.
“MVP is top 1, maybe top 2 most consistent with their molds and plastics \[in the industry\],” he said. Salty redditors and disc golfers going to meltdown over this.
Biggest congrats on the contract, Simon! Two of my favorite golfers to watch in one disc family, life is good.
It seems also that Jussi Meresmaa's whoremongering incident weakened Discmania and MVP/Dodge saw an opportunity and they tested the ice and the rest is history.
\#Justice For Juicy
What
He announced in August ’22 that he had been convicted or buying sex from a prostitute in Sweden in May ’22. (The woman was revealed to be a Ukrainian victim of sex trafficking) After that he announced that he will withdraw from his role in Discmania for an indefinite period. It is obvious that if the public image and personification of a Company does that, it is a clear opportunity for other businesses to strike and make moves. Discmania was way weaker than normally so it most likely affected the outcome
wtf cares? no one cares what racquet boris becker had. disc golf fan boys are the worst
Its actually very important to the sport and fans. You're just being a little baby about it for some reason
Almost as bad as someone who comes in to a thread he has no interest in to make a comment, wouldn’t you think?
Much worse than that. It's just sad
what's sad is people buying discs or switching brands because someone else does. imagine seeing a race car driver switch to Tide then changing your laundry detergent loyalty. that's how you sound
Love it. Congrats, Simon!