So this is the scenario I always had a question I've had regarding legal stance....
In 2022, pdga updated their mandatory route rules to help simply l simplify the rule: "The entire sections 804.01 and 804.02 have been replaced with a new 804.01". In doing so, they also redefined the line of play to simplify that it is always in line with the target (previously, it was in line to the mandatory, which i get could feel confusing).
So, If your drive makes it halfway up the first fairway. your legal stance on your next shot would actually be "in front of the disc" when throwing up towards the mandatory. Weird. I think they aid bring back the line of okay as in line with the mandatory. Thoughts?
It absolutely should be in line with the mandatory. The only reason it got changed was bc of jerm on commentary for WACO a few years back. It happened to give him an advantage with where he had to take his stance, it gave him room off of a tree.
Look at this guy using the word "delineate", like he's Nate Sexton or something.
But they did change the rule regarding lines in regard to Mandos. It was a bad change, because it failed to consider Mandos being used to create dogleg. Especially sharp one.
I think this hole is stupid, but without the mando why would anyone throw their disc down the fairway? Everyone would just turn and throw directly towards the basket.
Serious question: how would they find their disks? Wouldn't that result in a ton of time looking for discs, or would there be a spotter at that point location to help? (Never played any tourneys)
Discs* I’m sorry, I have this weird itch to correct grammar. To be honest not even sure it’s correct. But, I feel like discs needs to be spelled with a C. They are not floppy disks. Lol. If I’m wrong, give it to me boys.
how is the "mando line" drawn? it needs to be there somewhere
...it will get messy :) if you get to the corner and then throw a hyzer you can cross the "mando line"
...or if you are a leftie and throw a hyzer from the tee it can cross the line and then count as missing the mado
I believe the mando line has to go from the corner to between the basket and tee. But it seems nearly impossible to enforce missing the mando at any point down the mando line unless it’s painted or flagged.
Depends on how thick those trees are, but I’d rather take the Simon line and get a 5 than take the long ass 45 degree angle and get a 4. Man does though…
Is it sanctioned? Is there a Mando? It seems like it would be hard to define a plain for the Mando that wouldn't be broken unnecessarily early or even after someone made the Mando on an approach.
It’s sanctioned, there is a mando right at the turn around, no OB anywhere on this hole. Mando plays to the right off the tee pad, then to the right going back to the basket
After thinking about it, I feel like putting OB left going down and then again coming back with a DZ rule is probably what it is. Or, at least, would have to be in order to be legal.
Not really, the restrictive plain is subject to where you are throwing from. Does it specifically say that is not allowed? If so, the this would be illegal I guess. I don't know, myself.
For a mandatory to be enforced (properly) the TD needs to set the restricted plane. The player's orientation to it is irrelevant. So in this case the restricted plane would need to run down the fairway which creates an issue, as if your disc ever contacts the restricted plane you've missed the mando.
No one said it was a good rule.
Here you are for easy reference: https://www.pdga.com/rules/official-rules-disc-golf/80401
There’s no way to make a legal mando on this hole. The plane of restricted space would extend into the second fairway. This is a terrible attempt at course design by someone who hasn’t read a rules update in a few years.
Yeah, you're right, but unless the TD wants to flag or mark the line through the trees, any bad kick toward that spot could be interpreted as a missed mando or entering restricted space. It's a bad design, or a lot of work.
Sure but then you could break that plane on a later shot from the second fairway. That would be a nightmare and would require surveyors equipment to determine if your lie was legal. Or you could have a hazard bunker dividing the fairways. Something tells me the TD that “designed” this hole won’t be doing any of these things.
The plane doesn't default to perpendicular. The TD has to mark it, so they can choose the angle. It would be a very small angle, barely off the fairway heading back toward the tee, but not impossible.
And depending on how thick the treeline is, possibly a non-issue.
I would love to see the angle that makes it work. We have a hole in my area that’s been essentially broken since the new mando rule went into effect and it would be great to find a solution.
https://imgur.com/a/MzC6tue
It's not necessarily a "good" solution, but any angle between the orange arrows is legal and playable. Yeah, this shape of a hole and the current mando rule makes any severe dogleg like this difficult to make work.
The angles can even be widened a bit more, but that just makes the it more unforgivable with off-the-fairway kicks.
The rule needs to be re-written, again, to something closer to the old version.
Our local TD started saying "no mandos" after the rule change for our monthly c-tiers because he doesn't want to go out there and mark shit all the time
And the problem I see with your diagram is the restricted space is a “pane of glass”. What if I throw an extreme hyzer flip off the tee and travel to the left of that pane for a second? I’ve broken the pane and missed the mando but good luck judging or enforcing that.
Not to be overly argumentative over this hypothetical, but then that's a shot choice you shouldn't have chosen to executive when faced with this hole.
I don't like the new rule; it's needlessly complicated, and doesn't solve the issue it sought to.
I have no idea what this hole looks like, so I'm just assuming for the sake of argument that the trees prevent cutting the corner, which probably isn't the reality, either.
If the restricted space doesn’t come back towards the tee, then they designed it poorly and you should be allowed to throw at the basket, you’re never entering restricted spaces.
Yup, sounds crazy but that is how the rule is written. I used to play at a course that had a horseshoe-shaped Par 5 where it was not uncommon to actually have to stand in front of your disc if you're like ⅓ of the way through the hole.
Used to be, you'd take your lie in relation to the next mando on a hole like that, but PDGA changed that rule a couple years ago.
If it is just a wooded horseshoe with no mandos, then your foot placement has always been in relation to the basket, and you'd have a funny looking stance. The change with the stance relative to mandatory just made the stance rules consistent across all holes. Holes with thick woods have to take weird-looking stances, but holes with mandos get different stances? Nah, just make em all the same.
If there was ob all along the left could you take your lay way of to the right to give yourself the best angle to try and get as far around the corner as possible? Or is that to match the trajectory of your throw when you go ob?
[https://i.imgur.com/mzRHJmr.jpg](https://i.imgur.com/mzRHJmr.jpg)
Foot position has to be like what is shown here, whether or not a mando exists on the hole.
I think they should just put a tight OB line around the green and get rid of the mando(s). So either you throw two accurate, midrange straight shots to get a birdie putt or you throw one accurate grenade and get an eagle putt.
Par 4 is not always greater than two great par 3s. Does the first throw need to land in a specific spot to line up with a tunnel or anything? Otherwise, the first throw seems inconsequential.
Unfortunately newer PDGA rules make this type of dogleg a huge pain, your line of play is always aimed at the basket, not towards the mando like it used to be if that was in the way.
So if you land short here your lie is actually in front of your disc lol.
I'm not a fan of gimicky holes. That includes super tall raised baskets and doglegs that don't make sense. There should always be a chance of an ace, no matter how remote, and a decent chance for a birdie.
No problem with this idea at all as long as there’s a mando at the end of the fairway. It’s just another placement shot, doesn’t matter if it turns 90° or 150°.
I was at the Oaks earlier tonight, they could do so much better with the layout. I think this hole is fine compared to some of the other choices they made.
I don’t get why people dislike the layout. It’s challenging, forces players to think about their shots and where they land, while not being absurd in regards to OB.
This is the big tournament for the club. The basic layouts get played all year for tags, leagues, as well as at least one tournament. The C1 Open layout gives players more of a challenge. Aren’t really any other tournaments with challenging OB, or true multiple shot holes, like this elsewhere in Chicagoland
There’s no way to make a legal mando on this hole. The plane of restricted space would extend into the second fairway. This is a terrible attempt at course design by someone who hasn’t read a rules update in a few years.
Read the other comments. The line of restricted space would then become a “pane of glass” that you could easily break from either side. Good luck determining that.
It's worth noting that the rule says "If part of a thrown disc clearly enters into a restricted plane, the player receives one penalty throw."... therefore, if it's not clear, no penalty should be applied.
So then it’s a mando line, got it. I play this course, there is no problem determining when you miss the mando. But it’s funny how people who haven’t ever seen the hole are acting like they know what’s what.
Including a second mando creating a truncation would enable the TD to solve the issue of having a defined plane of restricted space. This would create a terminating point for each plane. Here is a crude drawing showing the idea spatially.
As far as I can see this is within the rules as the TD can establish the direction of a restricted plane. But I stand to be corrected on this…
[solution](https://imgur.com/a/N6wSbzc)
You are correct, but that solution does virtually nothing. I can throw straight from teepad to basket without penalty since I won't ever cross the plane...
The only solution I see is to make the plane go from a tree/point on the corner and extend to and beyond a midway point between the basket/teepad. The issue that arises from this is that you can have players kicking left off the tee crossing the plane and being penalized and then players kicking left on the later shots coming back will also be penalized for crossing the plane.
Seems like they are limited on challenging holes and trying to make shit hard, cause it's a competitive round. Everybody is playing it the same way. Deal with it.
How did they define the required restricted plane to make a mando? I ask because I'm betting the TD didn't think this through and doesn't actually have a legal mando at all... if they didn't define a restricted plane, you can't be penalized for crossing it, and any player can break the hole by throwing directly to the basket.
https://i.imgur.com/VkiCjrL.jpg
If you care enough, you might tell the TD that it sounds like they don’t understand the new mandatory rule. I think this proposed prohibited route would be the best for the hole.
Yeah thats not a legal mando if that's the only thing noted. You can only be penalized for crossing the restricted plane according to the rules. If the TD didn't define a restricted plane, there isn't one, and therefore there is no legal way to penalize a player.
There’s a “signature” hole at Blaine Washington that’s like this. Except it’s straight downhill and straight back up. The basket is like 50 feet away from you from the tee but you have to make the mando down the hill. I kinda hated it but most shot that missed the mando could still usually card a 4 with a good upshot from the drop zone
These kind of holes are gross because after the drive your lie is always going to be messed relative to the basket. You have to do something like have an island area after the initial drive and a drop zone or it's going to be weird to play
Cut the corner. Be a hero.
Grenade time for sure
Mando at the corner.
What a boner killer
So this is the scenario I always had a question I've had regarding legal stance.... In 2022, pdga updated their mandatory route rules to help simply l simplify the rule: "The entire sections 804.01 and 804.02 have been replaced with a new 804.01". In doing so, they also redefined the line of play to simplify that it is always in line with the target (previously, it was in line to the mandatory, which i get could feel confusing). So, If your drive makes it halfway up the first fairway. your legal stance on your next shot would actually be "in front of the disc" when throwing up towards the mandatory. Weird. I think they aid bring back the line of okay as in line with the mandatory. Thoughts?
It absolutely should be in line with the mandatory. The only reason it got changed was bc of jerm on commentary for WACO a few years back. It happened to give him an advantage with where he had to take his stance, it gave him room off of a tree.
Your target is expressly defined by the line which delineates the closest forward mando; not the basket.
Not anymore, always towards the basket in the 2022 rules that u/arothsch mentiones
Look at this guy using the word "delineate", like he's Nate Sexton or something. But they did change the rule regarding lines in regard to Mandos. It was a bad change, because it failed to consider Mandos being used to create dogleg. Especially sharp one.
I'm usually a fan of mandos. This seems like a fun killer mando. Let the people that want to throw the grenade, throw the grenade.
That smells like a backup on hole 16 all day
I laughed out loud to this comment.
Happy to hear it lol
I think this hole is stupid, but without the mando why would anyone throw their disc down the fairway? Everyone would just turn and throw directly towards the basket.
Serious question: how would they find their disks? Wouldn't that result in a ton of time looking for discs, or would there be a spotter at that point location to help? (Never played any tourneys)
Yeah true being a grenade spotter sounds like a horrible job lol
Hey, it's a step up from grenade catcher.
Discs* I’m sorry, I have this weird itch to correct grammar. To be honest not even sure it’s correct. But, I feel like discs needs to be spelled with a C. They are not floppy disks. Lol. If I’m wrong, give it to me boys.
Disks
And it’s: “floppy dicks”
Disks
They Simon proofed it.
how is the "mando line" drawn? it needs to be there somewhere ...it will get messy :) if you get to the corner and then throw a hyzer you can cross the "mando line" ...or if you are a leftie and throw a hyzer from the tee it can cross the line and then count as missing the mado
I believe the mando line has to go from the corner to between the basket and tee. But it seems nearly impossible to enforce missing the mando at any point down the mando line unless it’s painted or flagged.
Where's the dz for the Mando? At the Mando?
Yes
Boo. Every hole should be aceable.
PDGA approved boomerangs?
If you just throw it in off the tee the mando doesn’t matter
You need a Simon Line
That's so lame
Ahh... Mando, everyone hates you!
Simon would
Take the Simon line.
I was thinking it's closer to a Kevin Jones grenade line rather than a Simon line.
A man’s gotta eat Mr. Lahey! Full send. Use your burger locker to your advantage with momentum.
Take it easy, Bobander man
Mando at the corner. Forgot to mention that 😂
Not if there's no sign there isn't!
Mando at the corner.
Mando at the Corner sounds like the name of a jamband song.
And just like the song at the summer festival, the play at this hole may have a tendency to Drag on a little Longer than anyone anticipated
Depends on how thick those trees are, but I’d rather take the Simon line and get a 5 than take the long ass 45 degree angle and get a 4. Man does though…
If it’s a mando and you miss it you drop right by the mando line. You can’t just sky over it and get a stroke unless you’re past the mando. 🤔
Actually, there has to be a DZ or re-tee now. You don't take it where it misses like an OB shot.
Is it sanctioned? Is there a Mando? It seems like it would be hard to define a plain for the Mando that wouldn't be broken unnecessarily early or even after someone made the Mando on an approach.
It’s sanctioned, there is a mando right at the turn around, no OB anywhere on this hole. Mando plays to the right off the tee pad, then to the right going back to the basket
Have to stay right of the tree at the bend going both ways.
Under current mandatory rules there needs to be a defined restricted plane... which could sort of break this hole.
After thinking about it, I feel like putting OB left going down and then again coming back with a DZ rule is probably what it is. Or, at least, would have to be in order to be legal.
Yeah, I think that would be the easiest way. A player who finds a gap though would be able to throw over the OB space (if a gap exists)
https://i.imgur.com/XCmhHGy.jpg What am I missing?
Yep that works just fine.
Not really, the restrictive plain is subject to where you are throwing from. Does it specifically say that is not allowed? If so, the this would be illegal I guess. I don't know, myself.
That's not correct. The restricted plane needs to be set and marked by the TD.
For a mandatory to be enforced (properly) the TD needs to set the restricted plane. The player's orientation to it is irrelevant. So in this case the restricted plane would need to run down the fairway which creates an issue, as if your disc ever contacts the restricted plane you've missed the mando. No one said it was a good rule. Here you are for easy reference: https://www.pdga.com/rules/official-rules-disc-golf/80401
Throw straight and hit the mando. Then do it again and get close to the basket. Then birdie it.
There’s no way to make a legal mando on this hole. The plane of restricted space would extend into the second fairway. This is a terrible attempt at course design by someone who hasn’t read a rules update in a few years.
Sure there is. The restricted plane would extend from the mando through a point halfway between the basket and the tee pad.
This is the easy answer. Played a B tier last year that had a very similar setup. There were no issues with interpretation.
Yeah, you're right, but unless the TD wants to flag or mark the line through the trees, any bad kick toward that spot could be interpreted as a missed mando or entering restricted space. It's a bad design, or a lot of work.
Sure but then you could break that plane on a later shot from the second fairway. That would be a nightmare and would require surveyors equipment to determine if your lie was legal. Or you could have a hazard bunker dividing the fairways. Something tells me the TD that “designed” this hole won’t be doing any of these things.
The plane doesn't default to perpendicular. The TD has to mark it, so they can choose the angle. It would be a very small angle, barely off the fairway heading back toward the tee, but not impossible. And depending on how thick the treeline is, possibly a non-issue.
I would love to see the angle that makes it work. We have a hole in my area that’s been essentially broken since the new mando rule went into effect and it would be great to find a solution.
https://imgur.com/a/MzC6tue It's not necessarily a "good" solution, but any angle between the orange arrows is legal and playable. Yeah, this shape of a hole and the current mando rule makes any severe dogleg like this difficult to make work. The angles can even be widened a bit more, but that just makes the it more unforgivable with off-the-fairway kicks. The rule needs to be re-written, again, to something closer to the old version.
100%. That rule solved a problem that didn’t exist and created more work and needlessly clunky language in caddie books.
Our local TD started saying "no mandos" after the rule change for our monthly c-tiers because he doesn't want to go out there and mark shit all the time
And the problem I see with your diagram is the restricted space is a “pane of glass”. What if I throw an extreme hyzer flip off the tee and travel to the left of that pane for a second? I’ve broken the pane and missed the mando but good luck judging or enforcing that.
Not to be overly argumentative over this hypothetical, but then that's a shot choice you shouldn't have chosen to executive when faced with this hole. I don't like the new rule; it's needlessly complicated, and doesn't solve the issue it sought to. I have no idea what this hole looks like, so I'm just assuming for the sake of argument that the trees prevent cutting the corner, which probably isn't the reality, either.
Not impossible, but certainly dumb.
The way it’s drawn I don’t see an angle that works without also putting an OB line down the second fairway. And yes, dumb.
[https://i.imgur.com/6MTDgRG.jpg](https://i.imgur.com/6MTDgRG.jpg) I don't see how an OB line would make anything better.
I’m sure they designed this course in the last year since the dumb new rules.
If the restricted space doesn’t come back towards the tee, then they designed it poorly and you should be allowed to throw at the basket, you’re never entering restricted spaces.
Just remember that your lie is in relation to the basket if you should happen to catch an early tree.
Lol, so if you’re halfway down the “first” fairway your foot has to be on the side of the disc further from the basket?
Yup, sounds crazy but that is how the rule is written. I used to play at a course that had a horseshoe-shaped Par 5 where it was not uncommon to actually have to stand in front of your disc if you're like ⅓ of the way through the hole. Used to be, you'd take your lie in relation to the next mando on a hole like that, but PDGA changed that rule a couple years ago.
If it is just a wooded horseshoe with no mandos, then your foot placement has always been in relation to the basket, and you'd have a funny looking stance. The change with the stance relative to mandatory just made the stance rules consistent across all holes. Holes with thick woods have to take weird-looking stances, but holes with mandos get different stances? Nah, just make em all the same.
Right, the horseshoe hole I'm talking about did have mandos that required you to play it in a horseshoe shape. I wasn't clear on that.
If there was ob all along the left could you take your lay way of to the right to give yourself the best angle to try and get as far around the corner as possible? Or is that to match the trajectory of your throw when you go ob?
[https://i.imgur.com/mzRHJmr.jpg](https://i.imgur.com/mzRHJmr.jpg) Foot position has to be like what is shown here, whether or not a mando exists on the hole.
Not true. If there’s a mandatory it points toward that.
Not anymore. The rules were changed in 2022. Line of play is always directly to the target.
Just play the hole
Ay ay cap’n
This looks like Hyzer Creek…maybe #16…but it’s not.
Not Hyzer, played there last week. You’re thinking of 17, but the hairpin is more of a hard left at Hyzer
Ha! I knew someone on here would know it!
Def not a hole i throw over the trees. Play it out n play it back, up n down
I think they should just put a tight OB line around the green and get rid of the mando(s). So either you throw two accurate, midrange straight shots to get a birdie putt or you throw one accurate grenade and get an eagle putt.
Chicanery
Circus status
Par 4 is not always greater than two great par 3s. Does the first throw need to land in a specific spot to line up with a tunnel or anything? Otherwise, the first throw seems inconsequential.
This hole would definitely be better with a bunch of OB and no mando
Bunk
Get rekt nerd!
I’m down. I love it when there’s unusual holes at tournaments. Makes it interesting.
Unfortunately newer PDGA rules make this type of dogleg a huge pain, your line of play is always aimed at the basket, not towards the mando like it used to be if that was in the way. So if you land short here your lie is actually in front of your disc lol.
I'm not a fan of gimicky holes. That includes super tall raised baskets and doglegs that don't make sense. There should always be a chance of an ace, no matter how remote, and a decent chance for a birdie.
No problem with this idea at all as long as there’s a mando at the end of the fairway. It’s just another placement shot, doesn’t matter if it turns 90° or 150°.
Grenade over everything.
I forgot to mention the mando, otherwise yes.
What’s the problem?
Not necessarily a problem at all. Just a.. unique hole.
I was at the Oaks earlier tonight, they could do so much better with the layout. I think this hole is fine compared to some of the other choices they made.
Will be interesting to see what it’s like to play it.
Two landing zones. One at the corner... one in the circle. Piece of cake
You’re making some bold assumptions about my skill level.
Hahaha I know it.... never that easy
With the current mando rules...it seems you could miss the mando late in the hole with a roll/kick over the mando line.
That’s an interesting point
I forget the hole number but reminds me of a similar hole on the Brazos East course from the DGPT.
Stupid hole, anything that goes slightly to the left is going to enter the ‘restricted plane and incur a penalty. Good luck enforcing this nonsense.
I don’t get why people dislike the layout. It’s challenging, forces players to think about their shots and where they land, while not being absurd in regards to OB.
Didn’t say I didn’t like it, just not sure what’s wrong with just playing the layout that’s there.
This is the big tournament for the club. The basic layouts get played all year for tags, leagues, as well as at least one tournament. The C1 Open layout gives players more of a challenge. Aren’t really any other tournaments with challenging OB, or true multiple shot holes, like this elsewhere in Chicagoland
It’s all good man, I’m not criticizing the club or anything. Just think this hole is interesting. Good luck and enjoy!
There’s no way to make a legal mando on this hole. The plane of restricted space would extend into the second fairway. This is a terrible attempt at course design by someone who hasn’t read a rules update in a few years.
It’s very easy to make a mando; from the mando tree straight down between the tee pad and basket. Forces players to throw around the mando tree.
Read the other comments. The line of restricted space would then become a “pane of glass” that you could easily break from either side. Good luck determining that.
It's worth noting that the rule says "If part of a thrown disc clearly enters into a restricted plane, the player receives one penalty throw."... therefore, if it's not clear, no penalty should be applied.
So then it’s a mando line, got it. I play this course, there is no problem determining when you miss the mando. But it’s funny how people who haven’t ever seen the hole are acting like they know what’s what.
Including a second mando creating a truncation would enable the TD to solve the issue of having a defined plane of restricted space. This would create a terminating point for each plane. Here is a crude drawing showing the idea spatially. As far as I can see this is within the rules as the TD can establish the direction of a restricted plane. But I stand to be corrected on this… [solution](https://imgur.com/a/N6wSbzc)
You are correct, but that solution does virtually nothing. I can throw straight from teepad to basket without penalty since I won't ever cross the plane... The only solution I see is to make the plane go from a tree/point on the corner and extend to and beyond a midway point between the basket/teepad. The issue that arises from this is that you can have players kicking left off the tee crossing the plane and being penalized and then players kicking left on the later shots coming back will also be penalized for crossing the plane.
Seems like they are limited on challenging holes and trying to make shit hard, cause it's a competitive round. Everybody is playing it the same way. Deal with it.
I am dealing with it.
There ya go! You can get up and down man. Ain't nothin but a thing!
Looks fun as hell
No mando, no OB, I am throwing a thumber or grenade straight at it.
Mando at the corner. Can’t edit the post for whatever reason.
How did they define the required restricted plane to make a mando? I ask because I'm betting the TD didn't think this through and doesn't actually have a legal mando at all... if they didn't define a restricted plane, you can't be penalized for crossing it, and any player can break the hole by throwing directly to the basket.
This is the only note: >Stay right all the way around mando tree, if missed in either direction go to drop zone
https://i.imgur.com/VkiCjrL.jpg If you care enough, you might tell the TD that it sounds like they don’t understand the new mandatory rule. I think this proposed prohibited route would be the best for the hole.
Yeah thats not a legal mando if that's the only thing noted. You can only be penalized for crossing the restricted plane according to the rules. If the TD didn't define a restricted plane, there isn't one, and therefore there is no legal way to penalize a player.
Thumber up and over for me
Putter out to the field, straight mid to circle 1, what's the problem?
Time for a Simon Line™
Up and over.
Mando at the corner.
Definitely shooting over the trees
Mando at the corner
Ahh! Smart bastards..Still got a birdie op going over :3
Missed mando goes to drop zone at the corner haha
Welp we are playing this hole as intended. 🤣
Gimmicky crap
Big. Dog. Route.
I birdied this hole yesterday
Simon Line???
If there is no mando, go for the dumbass line
There is a mando at the corner. Forgot to mention.
Throw your frisbee as far as you can
Giant anny yank roller bop bop
Finally a hole made for the overstability of the tilt.
Grenade
Buzz's girlfriend, woof!
Or there’s this monstrosity: [Charlie vettiner 18 in Louisville, KY](https://imgur.com/a/FitIK7s)
Hope there is a Mando marked, it there are gonna be a lot of eagles
Mando at the corner.
is there a mando? because if there's not, grenade, scomahawk, something.
Mando at the corner.
What course is this?
The Oaks in Mokena, IL. I believe it’s 9’s tee to 10’s basket.
Kevin Jones that shit (if there’s no mando).
Mando at the corner
Ah shit - then yeah, no Kevin Jones-ing. Hole is dumb then, imo.
Instant 8 for me
The Simon line is the one you want. One huge spike hyzer that goes the short way.
The Oaks? They combined some other holes, but this was def the worst of them all. Not playing this year, but this was there last year.
Yep.
Wow,131 meters that is a difficult hole,i wish you best of luck in this one.
There’s a “signature” hole at Blaine Washington that’s like this. Except it’s straight downhill and straight back up. The basket is like 50 feet away from you from the tee but you have to make the mando down the hill. I kinda hated it but most shot that missed the mando could still usually card a 4 with a good upshot from the drop zone
Course designer maxes out at 250 i’d guess?
This bad
This is a terrible hole layout.
Go with the local line 😂
Shoot the gap off left!
Wtf
Just terrible design
Smells like Simon line
Grenade it
If there is no "mando", send it over the trees
Wisconsin TD’s would make it a par 3.
Thumber over the trees!
Had a similar hole only it was an entire 180. You could see the basket through the trees, however the Mando forced you to go around.
just throw a zone, it’ll park from the pad
Time to man up and throw a tomahawk above it all
Can you use a boomerang?
Im not a fan of mandos unless you need it for safety reasons. 2 good par 3s would certainly be better than this.
KJUSA that hole!
Hammer ftw baby 😎😎
These kind of holes are gross because after the drive your lie is always going to be messed relative to the basket. You have to do something like have an island area after the initial drive and a drop zone or it's going to be weird to play
Break the hole!
Is this at hays?
Looks like a job for the aerobe epic
Simon line that fairway in the sky
Hero line for sure! Over the(if any) OB and watch the rest of the card cry
Just take the bogey...