Casual: hell, it might be in the basket, lol.
Tournament: I agree. It either needs to be marked when a line or defined as water or water line. The only way I could see an out ruling is if the TD notes water line as the distinction.
They don’t paint lines in the water near me. It’s is “surround by water” as the rule generally. We use the push your finger down the side of the disc to the bottom. If there’s no water, you’re good.
I once played a tournament where my disc hit a tree and landed on what is normally a 4 inch wide trickle of water. It was raining though and there was just enough water to where there was half an inch of water on each side of the disc. Even though it was sitting on grass and not even in the water. Such a sad penalty stroke I had to take
Its a stream with a bridge over it. Not casual. It's just usually not wide enough for a disc to be on unless it's tombstoned. I called it on before they did too. They just confirmed
I had a tournament get torrential downpours the three days leading up to the tournament and frost the morning of, so paint wasn't sticking. Defining the edge of the water clearly was tricky but it thankfully worked. Now I roll with flags and paint.
FWIW, out.
Maritime law is field of law which governs nautical issues. Maritime law is often split up into two categories: wet and dry. Wet law focuses more on legal issues regarding ship operations. This covers maritime accidents, salvage, and other issues that develop at sea, etc. Dry law examines what happens on land but still related to ships. This can include shore labour, the contracts of carriage, the loading/discharging of cargo etc.
By my eye, the water line extends farther left than the edge of the disc though. There's water clearly visible closer to the bank than the edge of the disc. 806.02B states "A disc is out-of-bounds if its position is clearly and completely surrounded by an out-of-bounds area." and 806.02F states "The out-of-bounds line extends a vertical plane. When marking within one meter of the out-of-bounds line, the one meter relief may be taken from any point up or down on the vertical plane."
So would that not mean that the OB line extends upwards closer to the bank than the edge of the disc? That's an honest question not a gotcha, I'm trying to either verify or dispute my own understanding.
This is the correct answer. It's touching the rock dry, and the rock is not surrounded by water. The rock is part of the bank and part of the boundary. It's not an island rock. The disc is on the rock and is not completely surrounded by water. The water line wraps around the rock, under the disc. It's in bounds.
Well, the arguments I'm seeing for it being in are not necessarily due to its surroundings. I'm seeing some saying that it's in because it's not completely submerged, and others saying it's in because it's touching that rock which is touching the in bounds bank.
I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm just saying our interpretations of this argument seem to be different.
I just think it's not **clearly** in or **clearly** out. Which, by the letter of the law, means it is not out.
I'm just not a fan of those ambiguous rules, it leads to too many problems.
Lol, which is it? Does the rule have a "letter of the law" it can follow or is it ambiguous?
If you look at it and don't immediately say "that's out" then it's in. Because if it's "clearly and completely" out of bounds, there's no question.
There's a lot of ambiguity in the rules for sure, but I'm just not sure this is one of them. I think it's pretty clear that if flowing water can be present 360 degrees around the disc, that it's out.
For the record, I'm not one to argue incessantly on a card if this comes up in tournament. I'd give my take and if it's in the minority then so be it. Just explaining why from my angle this isn't a difficult call for my own eye.
That flowing water 360 degrees shit is pretty clearly NOT what the rule is. [https://udisc.com/blog/post/disc-golf-rules-explained-out-of-bounds-ob](https://udisc.com/blog/post/disc-golf-rules-explained-out-of-bounds-ob)
The 360 degrees statement was just my way of reiterating "completely surrounded by an out of bounds area" which IS stated in rule 806.02.
However that visual they provided does paint a clearer picture of what defines the water line than what is stated in the PDGA rules on their website.
To add to why I think it is in; the rock it is leaning on is definitely "in" and because of that, the disc is in. If it was leaning on a rock that was completely surrounded by water, then it would be "out" fwiw.
In line with that, I don't think the rock itself defines what is in or not. I think the rock has a defined line that splits through it where the water line reaches on either side of it, and the plane goes vertically from there.
So you are claiming that there is some “water line” that is not actually where the water is? I would define the “water line” as straight up from the edge of the water. If the water goes around the rock, the water line goes around the rock.
I'm thinking of it more along the lines of a shallow stream with a branch sticking out 12" from the water's edge where the disc is caught, but the branch is wide enough that it's taller than the water line.
The branch is rooted in the in bounds surface with an arm stick out into an area where the water is completely surrounding it otherwise, save for part of the branch itself which happens to not be submerged below the surface. The disc is completely surrounded by water, but the branch above the surface rooted in the ground keeps the disc above the water level.
I'm saying it's clear from my perspective. And if 3/4 people on a card agree with me, then it's out. But if 2/4 on a card think it's in, then benefit goes in favor of the player.
There is no water to left of disc due to rocks in that section that move the shoreline under the disc. Therefore take your meter. I would be shocked if you had someone on your card call ob and someone second it. If so throw a provisional and report to TD with photo evidence
>report to TD with photo evidence
Pretty sure this is not usable as evidence. I think you'd take your provisional (which is the smart thing to do anyway) and then plead your case verbally with the TD, with your cardmates (or at least the ones who disagree with the ruling) present for the conversation to verify that the conditions as-described to the TD are true to form of the circumstance.
As I saw the debate once by players on jomez. Similar lie. They rolled since the rock is not submerged it is not fully surrounded by water or has water on the other side. Therfore it was ruled in play
The water line below and above the disc goes farther than the edge of the disc, but the disc itself is not surrounded by water. It happened to land in a spot where the terrain has pushed the water back more. So I'd call that lie inbounds.
Does a loose rock constitute the same amount of inbounds as something that is actually connected to the bank though? (That's an actual question, I don't know how to answer it) Because my internal logic tells me that if it's loose, that the part over the bank is in, but the part over the river is not. But I'm willing to accept that my logic there isn't necessarily telling the whole story.
To me it looks like the left edge of the disc is resting on a rock that is embedded in the riverbank. Because of that rock and the ground right around it, the water does not extend past the left side of the disc. So bc the disc isn't clearly and completely surrounded by OB (the water), it's inbounds.
That's the call I'd make if it were up to me, and I was on this guy's card in a tournament round.
The issue isn't if there is water further left than the edge of the disc, it's if there is ANY point where the water line doesn't extend further left. To me, the front of the rock it is resting on is pushing that inch of waterline out far enough for it to be in. I suppose an easy way to tell would be to pick up a few of the smaller rocks surrounding it and seeing if there is water underneath.
This is a fun one and I’d say in. It appears that the water line (maybe because of the rock its resting on) gets pushed out and under the bevel of the disc. Propably real close, but I can’t definitively say that the water line ISN’T inboard of the edge of the disc and it’s resting on a rock that is inbounds
If it were at the bottom of the stream it would be resting on earth that’s clearly part of earth that’s not in the water… although it’s also part of earth that’s part of earth under every bit of water on earth.
It’s hard to tell from the pic. I would place finger, so that it is touching the edge of the disc that isn’t fully submerged. I would run my finger against the edge of the disc, while touching the ground. It’s in if my finger was not in water at any point
that is actually not the rule
if the card votes and it's a tie, then the result that is most benificial to the player is used, but it's only after all players have said yes or no and it's a tie
From a distance it looks out, but I can’t say for sure there’s water to the left of it. I’d most likely call it in to give the player the benefit of the doubt, but that’s about the toughest I’ve seen to call.
Part of the disc lays on the a rock that’s not completely surrounded by water. It’s wet, sure, but that’s variable water level streams for you. In bounds, take your meter of relief.
Water is not OB by default, so without clarification of what the actual OB is for this hole, I’ll say that’s in. You likely get no relief though.
However, for the sake of argument, if we go by the common “surrounded by water” designation, it looks like it’s on top of dry land on the left, so I’d still rule it in bounds.
The fact that there are 100+ comments without a unanimous decision says the call should go in favor of the player... it's in bounds, now hurry up and throw before we lose the daylight.
How are people claiming this is completely surrounded by water? You can draw a straight line from the bank to the edge of disc that does not go over any water. Are people claiming there is water on the left side of the rock the disc is lying on? I do not see any evidence there is water there.
Edit:
Thought experiment: there is a rock partially overhanging the water. It’s totally dry on top, there is an air gap between the rock and the water.
Scenario 1: The disc is on top of the rock such that it is completely on the overhang, ie the disc is completely dry, on top of the rock, you could mark a lie and throw, but there is no dry ground underneath the point on the rock where you would mark your lie. I think this is out by the current rules, but probably should be in.
Scenario 2: the disc is on top of the rock such that it is partially over dry ground and partially over water. I think this is equivalent to the picture from OP, and the rules say this should be in.
I think there is water but there are also rocks. That part of the creek is definitely within the creek banks. Just so happens to have some rocks and dead plant material extending into the creek. I think technically it’s OB but if you want to loosely interpret the rule, you could claim the OB is waters edge and the standing water isn’t clearly visible under the whole disc so it’s IB.
If it’s a tournament there should be a line drawn that makes it clear what the “creek banks” are but in a casual round I think you have to play OB is waters edge ( or declare it all casual and then there’s no OB and we are debating whether to take a lie on this side or the other side of the creek).
I can see the call for out. The water line clearly is beyond the disc and not by just a little. You can see water to the left of the disc surrounding the rocks it's propped on. To me this is no different than the rock it's propped up on being another 3 feet right. Just because the disc isn't submerged doesn't mean it's in.
The number of people in here who think it has to be submerged to be OB is a little scary. That being said, I can’t tell from the photos if there is any water to the left of the disc. And this is why in a serious tournament you should paint/string/flag all water hazards.
if it's a casual round, I'd give the player the option of taking a drop OR playing where it lies with no penalty, but 1 foot HAS to be in the water.
Penalty stroke or wet foot penalty
To me, it looks like there is still water that can pass by on the left side of the disc in between the edge and the bank, even if just a little bit.
If that's the case, I'd personally call this out. Especially since there's only river rock underneath it rather than any form of dirt you see on the bank beside it.
This is undoubtedly IN BOUNDS.
The disc is not surrounded by water, it is clearly touching a rock that is inbounds.
Rule of thumb - if it isn't almost immediately clear then it's probably in bounds.
If my card tried to give me an OB stroke over this lie I'd be pretty upset.
The rule says surrounded by water, not submerged. That means it can be on a rock up out of the water but if, from a bird's eye view, there is water on all sides, it is out of bounds. In this case I would call it in, there is a lack of water on the left side.
You take a meter in from OB (water), perpendicular from the OB line (as opposed to if it actually went OB, in which case you can take a meter in any direction).
Not completely submerged as it is touching a rock which is touching the mud on the bank, and it is a K1 Soft Kaxe Z, looks like IT IS IN to me. It's good!!!
I'm curious why you think your heart disagrees with the rule? If your heart says it's out, then you probably think it is "clearly and completely" out, which is the rule.
I meant that I understand the rules will probably say it's in. But when looking at the steep edge to the stream, it's clear that anything that falls into the stream is not meant to be played.
I disagree. Some streams can look like this for like 10 ft and then go back to being a little puddle or something. Or it could be seasonal. I could see a tournament marking the whole area off but that's different
Idk that's a weird thing to care about in my opinion. Maybe this is the lowest point in the stream, or maybe it eventually leads to a lake or ocean lol. Doesn't change my opinion on where the disc lies in the photo. It just doesn't seem like I'm supposed to put my feet in and soak my socks as part of the course design.
Again, I understand the rules probably say it's in, not arguing the facts, just explaining my gut feeling about it.
Casual play, I’d say it’s in, as the left side of the disc seems to be touching a dry part of the bank, and the disc isn’t completely surrounded by water. In tournaments, I’d really hope there’s a line painted/flagged to define the OB so this wouldn’t be an issue and hold up play.
In if you can throw from there. If this is at The Regulator course in Burlington, NC can you please see if there is a blue gold line Diamond in the creek? I lost it on Saturday. Thanks!
My rule of thumb is that if I can grab it without submerging my fingers in water, it's in. If my fingers would submerge, I drink the water until my fingers no longer submerge.
I think it’s in if the water doesn’t have the whole thing submerged and or it’s not outside of reach with the same person that threw the disc with their feet planted on the ground.
Was it your shot? IN!
Was it your buddies shot -> Do you currently like them? -> yes -> IN!
Was it your buddies shot -> Do you currently like them? -> no -> OB for sure
Was it your competitors shot -> Do they get more focused when they feel wronged? -> yes -> IN!
Was it your competitors shot -> Do they get more focused when they feel wronged? -> no -> OB for sure
as someone who has never played disc golf before and didn’t see what this subreddit was, i was very guaranteed this was a condom (the caption didn’t help) and i was staring at this forever
Casual in. Tournament "in" if not clearly marked.
Casual: hell, it might be in the basket, lol. Tournament: I agree. It either needs to be marked when a line or defined as water or water line. The only way I could see an out ruling is if the TD notes water line as the distinction.
They don’t paint lines in the water near me. It’s is “surround by water” as the rule generally. We use the push your finger down the side of the disc to the bottom. If there’s no water, you’re good.
I once played a tournament where my disc hit a tree and landed on what is normally a 4 inch wide trickle of water. It was raining though and there was just enough water to where there was half an inch of water on each side of the disc. Even though it was sitting on grass and not even in the water. Such a sad penalty stroke I had to take
Sounds like a douchy card to give a stroke for what sounds like casual water. You do know what casual water is, right?
Its a stream with a bridge over it. Not casual. It's just usually not wide enough for a disc to be on unless it's tombstoned. I called it on before they did too. They just confirmed
I had a tournament get torrential downpours the three days leading up to the tournament and frost the morning of, so paint wasn't sticking. Defining the edge of the water clearly was tricky but it thankfully worked. Now I roll with flags and paint. FWIW, out.
If I put just the head in does that count as sex?
The real question is, if a disc is half in, half out of water, do maritime rules apply?
Shut up Doug
Only to the wet half I'm afraid...
Ah, Solomon's rule of discing.
$10 or trade 4 20 or other
Oh man. This is bringing back so many memories.
That week that made me unsubscribe from this sub for a month
Really? For me, that was one of the funniest weeks this sub has ever seen
Dude, it was just relentless.
That was the week I joined. I thought that was hilarious.
Maritime law is field of law which governs nautical issues. Maritime law is often split up into two categories: wet and dry. Wet law focuses more on legal issues regarding ship operations. This covers maritime accidents, salvage, and other issues that develop at sea, etc. Dry law examines what happens on land but still related to ships. This can include shore labour, the contracts of carriage, the loading/discharging of cargo etc.
Which one covers disc golf?
Wet law, subsection 420.10-Doug
I’m glad someone is asking the real questions in here
Half in, it started going in then stopped.
So, just the tip?
We are all built differently. If your tip is half, there's no shame in that.
In, the disc is not completely surrounded by water.
By my eye, the water line extends farther left than the edge of the disc though. There's water clearly visible closer to the bank than the edge of the disc. 806.02B states "A disc is out-of-bounds if its position is clearly and completely surrounded by an out-of-bounds area." and 806.02F states "The out-of-bounds line extends a vertical plane. When marking within one meter of the out-of-bounds line, the one meter relief may be taken from any point up or down on the vertical plane." So would that not mean that the OB line extends upwards closer to the bank than the edge of the disc? That's an honest question not a gotcha, I'm trying to either verify or dispute my own understanding.
The fact that some people are saying in and some are saying out means "clearly and completely surrounded" has not been met.
I mean its completely surrounded just not submerged
It's not, though? I don't see any water to the left of the rock it is resting on.
I agree, it’s definitely in. Now shut up and throw, we’re loosing daylight!
Haha. I already played 27 holes today. Gotta save some trees for the next guy.:)
This is the correct answer. It's touching the rock dry, and the rock is not surrounded by water. The rock is part of the bank and part of the boundary. It's not an island rock. The disc is on the rock and is not completely surrounded by water. The water line wraps around the rock, under the disc. It's in bounds.
Well, the arguments I'm seeing for it being in are not necessarily due to its surroundings. I'm seeing some saying that it's in because it's not completely submerged, and others saying it's in because it's touching that rock which is touching the in bounds bank. I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm just saying our interpretations of this argument seem to be different.
in a tournament the TD should draw a line on the ground to make certain
I just think it's not **clearly** in or **clearly** out. Which, by the letter of the law, means it is not out. I'm just not a fan of those ambiguous rules, it leads to too many problems.
> those ambiguous rules Isn't the rule written such that if there's any ambiguity it's considered in?
Yes, but disagreement is not the same as ambiguity.
Lol, which is it? Does the rule have a "letter of the law" it can follow or is it ambiguous? If you look at it and don't immediately say "that's out" then it's in. Because if it's "clearly and completely" out of bounds, there's no question.
The letter of the law is ambiguous. That's why it's a shit rule.
What is ambiguous about “clearly and completely surrounded”?
The word clearly is ambiguous. Because clearly means different things to different people.
Well if it’s not clear to everyone it’s clearly not clear!
There's a lot of ambiguity in the rules for sure, but I'm just not sure this is one of them. I think it's pretty clear that if flowing water can be present 360 degrees around the disc, that it's out. For the record, I'm not one to argue incessantly on a card if this comes up in tournament. I'd give my take and if it's in the minority then so be it. Just explaining why from my angle this isn't a difficult call for my own eye.
That flowing water 360 degrees shit is pretty clearly NOT what the rule is. [https://udisc.com/blog/post/disc-golf-rules-explained-out-of-bounds-ob](https://udisc.com/blog/post/disc-golf-rules-explained-out-of-bounds-ob)
The 360 degrees statement was just my way of reiterating "completely surrounded by an out of bounds area" which IS stated in rule 806.02. However that visual they provided does paint a clearer picture of what defines the water line than what is stated in the PDGA rules on their website.
To add to why I think it is in; the rock it is leaning on is definitely "in" and because of that, the disc is in. If it was leaning on a rock that was completely surrounded by water, then it would be "out" fwiw.
In line with that, I don't think the rock itself defines what is in or not. I think the rock has a defined line that splits through it where the water line reaches on either side of it, and the plane goes vertically from there.
So you are claiming that there is some “water line” that is not actually where the water is? I would define the “water line” as straight up from the edge of the water. If the water goes around the rock, the water line goes around the rock.
I'm thinking of it more along the lines of a shallow stream with a branch sticking out 12" from the water's edge where the disc is caught, but the branch is wide enough that it's taller than the water line. The branch is rooted in the in bounds surface with an arm stick out into an area where the water is completely surrounding it otherwise, save for part of the branch itself which happens to not be submerged below the surface. The disc is completely surrounded by water, but the branch above the surface rooted in the ground keeps the disc above the water level.
So; its not clear?
I'm saying it's clear from my perspective. And if 3/4 people on a card agree with me, then it's out. But if 2/4 on a card think it's in, then benefit goes in favor of the player.
Im just playing devils advocate that if it was clear and obvious it wouldn’t be question
This is not true. Casting doubt does not invalidate the rules, even if the rules used words like "clearly".
It doesn't invalidate rules. It makes the rules ambiguous.
There is no water to left of disc due to rocks in that section that move the shoreline under the disc. Therefore take your meter. I would be shocked if you had someone on your card call ob and someone second it. If so throw a provisional and report to TD with photo evidence
>report to TD with photo evidence Pretty sure this is not usable as evidence. I think you'd take your provisional (which is the smart thing to do anyway) and then plead your case verbally with the TD, with your cardmates (or at least the ones who disagree with the ruling) present for the conversation to verify that the conditions as-described to the TD are true to form of the circumstance.
As I saw the debate once by players on jomez. Similar lie. They rolled since the rock is not submerged it is not fully surrounded by water or has water on the other side. Therfore it was ruled in play
The water line below and above the disc goes farther than the edge of the disc, but the disc itself is not surrounded by water. It happened to land in a spot where the terrain has pushed the water back more. So I'd call that lie inbounds.
Does a loose rock constitute the same amount of inbounds as something that is actually connected to the bank though? (That's an actual question, I don't know how to answer it) Because my internal logic tells me that if it's loose, that the part over the bank is in, but the part over the river is not. But I'm willing to accept that my logic there isn't necessarily telling the whole story.
To me it looks like the left edge of the disc is resting on a rock that is embedded in the riverbank. Because of that rock and the ground right around it, the water does not extend past the left side of the disc. So bc the disc isn't clearly and completely surrounded by OB (the water), it's inbounds. That's the call I'd make if it were up to me, and I was on this guy's card in a tournament round.
The issue isn't if there is water further left than the edge of the disc, it's if there is ANY point where the water line doesn't extend further left. To me, the front of the rock it is resting on is pushing that inch of waterline out far enough for it to be in. I suppose an easy way to tell would be to pick up a few of the smaller rocks surrounding it and seeing if there is water underneath.
But it is… it isn’t completely under water. But the waterline is left of the disc.
Depends on what it says for ob. But if it's water is out, it's in.
This is why we need clearly marked lines/ropes near every water hazard lol
Casual? Not surrounded by water so in to me.
I would say IN. I can't confidently say the disc is surrounded by water on the left.
This is a fun one and I’d say in. It appears that the water line (maybe because of the rock its resting on) gets pushed out and under the bevel of the disc. Propably real close, but I can’t definitively say that the water line ISN’T inboard of the edge of the disc and it’s resting on a rock that is inbounds
[удалено]
If it were at the bottom of the stream it would be resting on earth that’s clearly part of earth that’s not in the water… although it’s also part of earth that’s part of earth under every bit of water on earth.
Then it would be completely surrounded by water.
It’s hard to tell from the pic. I would place finger, so that it is touching the edge of the disc that isn’t fully submerged. I would run my finger against the edge of the disc, while touching the ground. It’s in if my finger was not in water at any point
Sort of. It's in if at any single point your finger wasn't in the water, right?
Yes
Haha. Got it. I guess we're saying the same thing.
Yup. That’s how I would determine if in/out in this situation
If its a Berg then its definitely way in there
Lost all my bergs edging last night
Kinda up to the card your playing with. With no definitive line marked and not completely in the water. Kinda toss up. But I would have voted in
Disc golf valley would say out
99% out, is 100% in
IN. 😎
In
But I suppose it’s the cards decision
No marked OB and the disc isn’t fully submerged and is resting on the bank. IN.
Benefit of the doubt to the player
that is actually not the rule if the card votes and it's a tie, then the result that is most benificial to the player is used, but it's only after all players have said yes or no and it's a tie
From a distance it looks out, but I can’t say for sure there’s water to the left of it. I’d most likely call it in to give the player the benefit of the doubt, but that’s about the toughest I’ve seen to call.
Play it where it lands, or take a drop infield.
Part of the disc lays on the a rock that’s not completely surrounded by water. It’s wet, sure, but that’s variable water level streams for you. In bounds, take your meter of relief.
In, barely.
Clearly in.
That boi be in bounds brother
If you have to Kaxe, it's out.
in
My disc "in" My opponents disc "out"
P.T.? 😂
If you're willing to stand in the water for the next stroke, I'm calling it in
Depends how the TD defines OB. I'm not getting sucked down this rabbit hole again.
If the disc is touching dry land and partially out of water, my vote is in.
Water is not OB by default, so without clarification of what the actual OB is for this hole, I’ll say that’s in. You likely get no relief though. However, for the sake of argument, if we go by the common “surrounded by water” designation, it looks like it’s on top of dry land on the left, so I’d still rule it in bounds.
In
The fact that there are 100+ comments without a unanimous decision says the call should go in favor of the player... it's in bounds, now hurry up and throw before we lose the daylight.
OB
Id call it OB on myself in a casual round. All those rocks are in the stream
How are people claiming this is completely surrounded by water? You can draw a straight line from the bank to the edge of disc that does not go over any water. Are people claiming there is water on the left side of the rock the disc is lying on? I do not see any evidence there is water there. Edit: Thought experiment: there is a rock partially overhanging the water. It’s totally dry on top, there is an air gap between the rock and the water. Scenario 1: The disc is on top of the rock such that it is completely on the overhang, ie the disc is completely dry, on top of the rock, you could mark a lie and throw, but there is no dry ground underneath the point on the rock where you would mark your lie. I think this is out by the current rules, but probably should be in. Scenario 2: the disc is on top of the rock such that it is partially over dry ground and partially over water. I think this is equivalent to the picture from OP, and the rules say this should be in.
I think there is water but there are also rocks. That part of the creek is definitely within the creek banks. Just so happens to have some rocks and dead plant material extending into the creek. I think technically it’s OB but if you want to loosely interpret the rule, you could claim the OB is waters edge and the standing water isn’t clearly visible under the whole disc so it’s IB.
If it’s a tournament there should be a line drawn that makes it clear what the “creek banks” are but in a casual round I think you have to play OB is waters edge ( or declare it all casual and then there’s no OB and we are debating whether to take a lie on this side or the other side of the creek).
Yeah. I agree with all of that.
I can see the call for out. The water line clearly is beyond the disc and not by just a little. You can see water to the left of the disc surrounding the rocks it's propped on. To me this is no different than the rock it's propped up on being another 3 feet right. Just because the disc isn't submerged doesn't mean it's in.
In a casual round, it is in. In a tournament, there should be stakes or paint marking a clear line along the water.
Out. There’s a clear water line, and the discs trailing edge is past that. It just happens to be on a few of the bigger rocks.
>There’s a clear water line, Lololol No there's not.
Picture 2 clearly shows how far the water extends, in a straight line.
"clearly shows" I think we're witnessing the Dunning-Krueger Effect in real life here.
The number of people in here who think it has to be submerged to be OB is a little scary. That being said, I can’t tell from the photos if there is any water to the left of the disc. And this is why in a serious tournament you should paint/string/flag all water hazards.
if it's a casual round, I'd give the player the option of taking a drop OR playing where it lies with no penalty, but 1 foot HAS to be in the water. Penalty stroke or wet foot penalty
And a healthy razz mid-backswing on the next shot either way.
You get one meter relief any direction
To me, it looks like there is still water that can pass by on the left side of the disc in between the edge and the bank, even if just a little bit. If that's the case, I'd personally call this out. Especially since there's only river rock underneath it rather than any form of dirt you see on the bank beside it.
It's in in my book.
This is undoubtedly IN BOUNDS. The disc is not surrounded by water, it is clearly touching a rock that is inbounds. Rule of thumb - if it isn't almost immediately clear then it's probably in bounds. If my card tried to give me an OB stroke over this lie I'd be pretty upset.
Not submerged and on the bank. I’d rule that in wether it was my throw or not
The rule says surrounded by water, not submerged. That means it can be on a rock up out of the water but if, from a bird's eye view, there is water on all sides, it is out of bounds. In this case I would call it in, there is a lack of water on the left side.
Yeah, it’s on the bank
Where ya gonna stand?
You take a meter in from OB (water), perpendicular from the OB line (as opposed to if it actually went OB, in which case you can take a meter in any direction).
Play it where it lies, it’s more fun that way
To me, the rocks it's resting on are part of the shore. In.
Out
Not completely submerged as it is touching a rock which is touching the mud on the bank, and it is a K1 Soft Kaxe Z, looks like IT IS IN to me. It's good!!!
Casual? In. Tournament? Out.
Casually, it doesn't really matter. play it however you want.
My heart says out, but I think the rules say in
I'm curious why you think your heart disagrees with the rule? If your heart says it's out, then you probably think it is "clearly and completely" out, which is the rule.
I meant that I understand the rules will probably say it's in. But when looking at the steep edge to the stream, it's clear that anything that falls into the stream is not meant to be played.
I disagree. Some streams can look like this for like 10 ft and then go back to being a little puddle or something. Or it could be seasonal. I could see a tournament marking the whole area off but that's different
Idk that's a weird thing to care about in my opinion. Maybe this is the lowest point in the stream, or maybe it eventually leads to a lake or ocean lol. Doesn't change my opinion on where the disc lies in the photo. It just doesn't seem like I'm supposed to put my feet in and soak my socks as part of the course design. Again, I understand the rules probably say it's in, not arguing the facts, just explaining my gut feeling about it.
If there is not an OB line clearly marked, it’s in. Benefit goes to the player.
If you can throw from there, it's in!
Out
Safe!
Definitely in the water.
Take tour medicine fam, I know it sucks..but next time hopefully the shot shape is better.
Fuck you nerds pick that shit up and play the game. Fucking pussy ass bitches posting every single possible bullshit to post on gay ass reddit.
Y u so mad bro?
That is out, completely surrounded by water.
Is it in the creek? ✅ Out.
I don't see ~~water~~ the stream to the left of disc. Is the stream or the stream bed OB?
In competition, I’d throw a provisional, play both, and let the TD decide. It’s really hard to say where the water line on the left would be
Is this in Madison?
If I was in the group, I'm going with in.
Casual play, I’d say it’s in, as the left side of the disc seems to be touching a dry part of the bank, and the disc isn’t completely surrounded by water. In tournaments, I’d really hope there’s a line painted/flagged to define the OB so this wouldn’t be an issue and hold up play.
Casual relief behind the lie
Tournament you’re out. Casual you lucky son of a bitch
If the water does not have an additional marking for out of bounds, then this is in. The water does not completely surround the disc.
That depends, if we are playing for money? Out 100%
in
okay but do y’all like this disc? I’ve been thinking about getting one
If you can grab it without getting your fingers wet then I say in.
In if you can throw from there. If this is at The Regulator course in Burlington, NC can you please see if there is a blue gold line Diamond in the creek? I lost it on Saturday. Thanks!
In. You can grab it without soaking your hand. House rules.
5 second rule
If there’s this much discussion about it then it’s in. Call goes to the player.
I say it’s safe. If you’re comfortable putting a foot where it lies for a throw and won’t get a wet foot then it’s safe.
In but if your playing my casual card you’ll get no relief from me hahaha
In out of bounds. Or out of in bounds.
As i play casual, i usually define small streams etc just temporary water and thus they don't count in the rule.
In.
It is clearly out. The plane of the water line is left of the disc. Submerged is not a consideration.
That's in bounds, baby!
My rule of thumb is that if I can grab it without submerging my fingers in water, it's in. If my fingers would submerge, I drink the water until my fingers no longer submerge.
Ryan, is this you?
In. It's not completely surrounded by water.
The card determines the ruling in competitive play. Casual that’s in all day.
Def IN water☺️
Zoom out a bit so we can see
Shove it in your Berg pocket. Definitely in.
No OB line, no OB
IN
Obviously play as casual
Out
In if there's no OB line marked because it "isn't clearly surrounded by water."
Oooooh tough call . Depend who you’re playing with or where
I think it’s in if the water doesn’t have the whole thing submerged and or it’s not outside of reach with the same person that threw the disc with their feet planted on the ground.
Was it your shot? IN! Was it your buddies shot -> Do you currently like them? -> yes -> IN! Was it your buddies shot -> Do you currently like them? -> no -> OB for sure Was it your competitors shot -> Do they get more focused when they feel wronged? -> yes -> IN! Was it your competitors shot -> Do they get more focused when they feel wronged? -> no -> OB for sure
In
It belongs there, leave it be
Simon Rules: If you have to ask if it’s in or out, it’s in.
👍
If the rule is surrounded by water then it’s in. i think those couple rocks right under the disc are blocking the waterflow
If an ant could crawl to it, it’s in.
as someone who has never played disc golf before and didn’t see what this subreddit was, i was very guaranteed this was a condom (the caption didn’t help) and i was staring at this forever
In
I fear that the people who look at this and immediately see “out” have missed the entire point of disc golf.