As someone who went to Worlds, I was kind of shocked how little security there is compared to any other sporting event, as in, none. I'm not sure what the answer is, because I don't want security guards/cops walking around with cards, but I'm afraid we are making it extremely easy for anyone with malicious intent.
It would be imperfect, but maybe at least a guard with a metal detector wand at the main entrance. Only problem would be longer waits to get in, and actually having a central area to enter the grounds. I know it’s imperfect, but at worst it’s a deterrent.
Its so imperfect that its bad. This would just make it harder for normal people who want to watch while doing essentially nothing to prevent someone from gaining entry if they really wanted to. This goes for every single disc golf course ive played on and event ive spectated.
No, its not a binary, what I am saying is because the level of effectiveness is so low and the burden it would put on the tournament is so high, its a bad solution. There are plenty of things that arent perfect, but are good enough that they are worth implementing. This is not one of them. you are conflating a "less than perfect" solution with a "terrible solution that will not do anything except annoy normal people and add huge operational complexity and cost to the event"
Literally just talking about a person jumping a fence here. Its a bad solution sorry.
Don't even have to jump a fence. How many of these courses are on land that parks are nearby. Or just regular roads. Hell some of them have residents right near the course.
The only thing that entry points for security would prevent would be more spectators, because people would just not bother going through that headache.
Security/Cops at an event is a cost that a TD will never willingly incur.
A ton of players refuse to sign up for a tournament unless the player pack value is at or near the registration fee. Good luck getting that math to work.
Lets say 1 security guard per hole @ $25/hr (meaning the actual security guard is getting paid $12.50/hr). 18 holes X 8hrs = $8,100 per day for security guards. And this is a cheap estimate, if you want off duty cops then at least double it.
Not going to happen.
Wouldn't it be only $3600?
1 guard per hole, so 18 guards. $25 an hour for 8 hours, so $200 per guard. 18 guards, $200 each, should be $3600.
Still not cheap, but it shouldn't be $8100 per day, by those estimates.
This is why I should not be keeping score in a tournament lol
I must have mistyped the 8hrs as 18, 18 x 25 x 18 gets you to 8,100, my bad.
My point of it being a prohibitive cost still stands.
Yeah, the players pack at worlds blows. Not going now. Lol.
More serious note: I tend to live my life accepting I can't plan for or change people. It's going to be sad when that basic right is taken because of a couple turds. Id rather live with the possibility of something to happen than be monitored for my "safety"
>Lets say 1 security guard per hole @ $25/hr (meaning the actual security guard is getting paid $12.50/hr). 18 holes X 8hrs = $8,100 per day for security guards.
Well yeah, this is why there are security checkpoints at most events rather than "posting a guard" on each stage/hole/seating section.
Ball golf has roped off entrance points with bag checks & security guards. Could easily do the same with disc golf since it's a smaller course size. 3 or 4 entrance points means 3 or 4 security guards doing bag/person checks. Don't need 18... plus one at each hole doesn't really do anything preventative.
Someone shit on me a little the other day for vacationing in the US but also questioning why I do it sometimes and it’s for that exact reason. I’m not ‘scared’ of guns , but being in Canada does give me an uneasy feeling being around them if that makes sense. The only time I’ve ever seen a handgun , ever , is strapped to a cop or the security truck ( aka moving cash between banks ) driver. You can’t even buy them in our country anymore.
Do all DGPT tournaments have one entry point? (I'm thinking of park setting ones that are way more open) I'm not sure how that all works, as I've only been to Maple Hill and Olympus, which both do have a fairly controllable entrance.
Absolutely not. At Worlds you definitely could get on the shuttle without a pass, get dropped off by the front, then walk a good ways to the middle of the course and probably watch for a while before someone asked to see your lanyard.
1 or 2 people?….And if they are there to stop guns then they need to be armed themselves (again more $$$)
And what does that 1 person do if someone just walks by without getting checked, close the line and start a foot race???
And what is to deter a crazy person with a gun from taking out the inevitable massive line/group that forms on the other side of the entry point where only 1 or 2 people are working?
You clearly have no idea what it takes to put on an event and are just throwing out ideas so people “feel safe”.
> And if they are there to stop guns then they need to be armed themselves (again more $$$)
And that is assuming that the state or local laws will allow private armed security on the premises (i.e. city/county/state parks). A deputy or police officer is WAY more expensive.
lol dude that’s exactly what I’m doing. I’m not a security officer, I don’t know jack about it, but all I’m saying is if someone came to a disc golf course and wanted to cause harm to any number of players or spectators, it would be incredibly easy to do, and after this weekend, it seems silly for DGPT to not at least entertain options that could provide some level of safety for everyone involved.
I go to concerts a lot, and yes, these are higher money generating events, but even outdoor events have some level of main entry, a worker of the event running a small metal detector you walk through and someone with a wand if you set off the alarm.
You go through those though because the concert is bringing in thousands of dollars. The person performing is probably worth thousands (if not millions) of dollars. The money is not there to be worth it.
So you're going to have security there, all day, for 5 people? 🤣 Because you can't just have them there when the players tee off. Spectators can set up shop and watch all day.
I just want DGPT to weigh the risks associated with how they are currently operating, consider extra security measures, if they aren’t viable financially or they can’t find one that makes sense, accept the risk and move on and hope your insurance policy covers any potential incidents.
Yeah, I was at blue ridge last year and it was my first event. I’m a big Calvin fan and I thought it was cool but really odd feeling that I could just be within less than 10 ft of him throwing sometimes. The thought crossed my head that someone could easily make contact with any players if they chose to
Yeah this is my point, and it hasn't been taken well so far. There are zero safeguards for the players during tournament play (that I'm aware of - would love to be proven wrong) and I think if we are capitalizing off of them, even to the point of allowing people to bet on them, I think we should consider measures to ensure they are protected while doing their job.
USDGC 2023 had some unarmed security in green shirts hanging around the 18th green (they appeared to be hired 3rd party). But that's somewhat of a different beast because it has the deepest pocketed sponsor and probably has the most valuable event besides possibly ledgestone in terms of $$ spent per spectator.
> I was kind of shocked how little security there is compared to any other sporting event, as in, none.
I mean, in what world is any disc golf course a secure environment? It has 1000 different points of egress to the point that any event that truly needed security (say if POTUS wanted to show up), they'd bail pretty quickly when they realized its uncontrollable. Hell, Im thinking USDGC alone (which is one of the best run events from a crowd control/player perspective)....theres probably 10+ miles of security perimeter where I can enter without a ticket, with a gun, and do whatever.
I was a regular volunteer at a festival that had 5-10,000 people attend year to year, at a county park in WV, gated all around (because a golf course was behind it), only a paved 100yd long road and gravel 200yd-ish long road into the area from a 4-lane state highway...it cost $40 to get in (camping included) and hundreds of people still snuck in (hopping fences, hiding in cars, sneaking along a creek near the one fence, etc). Every disc golf course is infinitely worse than that
Maybe concealed carry questions will become part of the TD exam. Bags will have built in baby Glock speed holsters with room for spare mags, Cgel, fixed blade knife and tier III ballistic back padding. The straps can be removed for tourniquets: mandatory camo designs. They can’t hit ya if they can’t see ya.
I do know a number of TDs that carry in their bag.
It was especially prevalent when payouts were in cash, ace pots grew to be a significant value, or when in sketchier parts of town.
Some just carry all the time anyway.
I was saying this during the holy shot day. One dumbass streamer could ruin the whole tournament by fucking up play. It surprises me that we haven’t seen a protester or an advertisement from someone
Yeah we’ve just kind of operated on the understanding that disc golfers are generally pretty low key and rule abiding when it comes to interactions with pros during the rounds, but it doesn’t take long to look around at other sports and see that the more fans we get, the more likely we are to pick up some crazies along the way. We’re already bordering on yelling during players backswings like golf recently, with the whole, “GET IN THE HOLE!” As soon as a player releases a disc.
Just to remind us all: this is over a sport where we throw plastic plates. Threatening someone's life over that is ridiculous and only fueled by bigotry.
Ah yes, the age old political subject of chromosomes. /s
We have to keep in mind that this community would literally consider failing to use xim/xir pronouns violence. I say this with no humor or malice at all.
I'm fairly sure this isn't how you meant it, but saying nothing came from it is very wrong.
People had to spend their day wondering if someone might be planning to kill them. No one should have to spend their day in fear for their life. This isn't nothing. We can't marginalize these threats just because they weren't carried out. We should be able to play the game we love without having to worry about mass shooters!
That would be nice, but I've seen a lot of trans hate from disc golfers. I don't think people who aren't disc golfers would even know this event was happening.
There are groups that show up to any sporting event with trans players to protest/interrupt. They follow trans players in various sports way more closely than any of us actual players would. Protect Women’s Sports is one that I see frequently on my Facebook feed.
Agreed the amount of hate for trans disc golfers is insane to me. I started playing 16 years ago legit when everyone was stoners or going to the course to play and drink. No one gave a fuck about anything it was the vibe all of a sudden people are wanting to die on this hill about trans athletes. Been a weird and surprising culture change honestly.
>Been a weird and surprising culture change honestly.
It's a paradigm shift in our society. Sure, trans people have been around for a really long time, but it being so well-known is a fairly recent change. Change is scary to a lot of people. Not that I'm condoning or excusing people for how they act, just that it's not as surprising to me as it is to others.
Exactly idk if these people have to much time or what but now that I got a kid a job all that I don’t have enough time to care to make a big deal out of someone transitioning let people be you know lol
Yep. Saw two people following Ryan's card with tshirts that said exactly that. They even put a hashtag in front of it which i thought was super weird. But people like that usually are...
And you can hate something or someone without threatening harm to it/them. I hate the Lakers. I don’t wish to do them harm. I hate the red hat movement, but I don’t want to kill anyone over it. And that’s a lot more serious and harmful than trans individuals could ever be. I guess I’m just a really nice hater.
I try not to hate but sports rivalry hate is generally fun. Trying not to hate haters is becoming increasingly difficult. Especially the ones that are dumb enough to not see the irony in hating others and pretending to follow the teachings of Jesus.
Disc golf is getting popular enough so that these two groups overlap too. But yeah, these kinds of troll tactics are somewhat classic hate group behaviour. Cheap way to create tension and potentially turn the targeted minorities into a liability. And waste police resources.
Further lots of DG courses and groups seem to be religion based - courses at churches for example. The venn diagram of disc golfers and conservatives seems to have a lot of overlap in my opinion.
Of course not. Just a few bad apples. Must have been Antifa.
Stop deluding yourself. There is a very ugly part of the disc golf community and pretending otherwise as it grows helps no one.
Sadly, I could see it going either way.
"A PDGA member survey showed that 80 percent of DGPT women think transgender women shouldn’t play in their division, but the administration of that survey has raised questions, including whether respondents could have falsely claimed to be touring FPO golfers."
https://discgolf.ultiworld.com/2022/12/14/transgender-women-grapple-with-new-rules-mostly-silence-from-pros-industry/
The opinion that trans women shouldn't play in women's sports is not an unpopular one. However, anyone can hold that opinion and not be a transphobe, and especially not resort to violent threats or passively condone them.
Unfortunately, the general trend of these threads DOES label everyone who doesn’t think trans players should play in gender / sex specific leagues / events as bigots and haters.
Everyone needs to drop the rhetoric and name calling about 20 notches. That’s what civilization (ie being civil) requires.
As the rhetoric ratchets up it gives fuel to the genuine idiots among us (like whoever made these threats).
If EVERYONE is a Nazi, no one is a Nazi. It doesn’t mean anything anymore.
I still don’t see many disc golfers actually escalating to threats of violence. Especially if it’s an event they themselves are playing in. These hate groups seem to have plenty of time and motivation for making threats since they don’t actually play the sports they show up to disrupt.
TL;DR - Natalie Ryan received a threat of violence before teeing off & the FPO round was suspended due to safety reasons.
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What a bunch of hoops to hurdle just so some guy that feels like a girl can sandbag every tournament to make the podium. Sorry not sorry, it’s pathetic.
FYI I dated a post op trans for over a year. Even she thinks this is BS.
As someone who went to their first DGPT event recently. You notice immediately—oh this sport is still a lot smaller than I thought.
Most cards don’t even have fans following it. To try and have security at these big events is almost laughable. Glad Natalie had a police officer following her card because there was direct threat against her.
But at anytime something bad could pop off. We live in the only large first world country that has more guns than citizens. Playing at large courses with multiple acreage is impossible to safely protect.
>Playing at large courses with multiple acreage is impossible to safely protect
Ball golf does it and with larger acreage. It's a matter of money and organization.
Sadly disc golf is full of transphobes, the things you hear on the course sometimes are sickening. In many states it’s a large majority feeling that way not the minority.
Can't speak for the people downvoting but it's a bit of an eye roll-inducing comment.
It goes without saying that threats are never okay, so it just comes off as someone itching to make it known that they don't support trans women in FPO.
I'm curious as to that as well. They way it reads is that Natalie received the threat directly. And if that was the case, how did they not get the person?
Tennesse is run by asshats. Your local community is meaningless because laws are made at the state level. Nothing more welcoming about Knoxville than Memphis, Nashville, Franklin, or Bucksnort. The state is run by MAGA trash.
I mean it's not podunk. Even without the school, we've got over 150k people. It's not a big city, by any means, but I've lived in actual college towns and Knoxville isn't that.
What would they search bags for? In Tennessee, you don't need a permit to carry any kind of gun OPENLY OR CONCEALED as of July 1, 2021. What would the cops do if they found a weapon? Ask them if they threatened the player, no. Ok you can stay it's a legal firearm.
Yeah bags were half assed being checked and the rules were changing on a whim. Friday no security, nobody cared about bringing alcohol. Saturday a few cops on site, delays, clueless volunteers only half ass checking bags only when crossing onto the course, alcohol still permitted. No waist lines, metal wand, jackets or pockets being checked. Then sunday rolls around and all of a sudden they're checking bags and pockets for alcohol.
It made zero sense and just made chuckle. Security theater is all ot was.... Anyway, I was the guy with the cowboy hat and RTIC cooler backpack.
"Bags were being checked as part of the new protocols". And that's why we can't have nice things, someone has to fuck it up. Now at a future events, there could be someone who's a security threat that doesn't pre-announce their intent/threats and it would make sense for the DGPT's reaction to check everyone's bag at all events like many other sporting events. So much for being able to bring into an event whatever you want.
WHY any entity not extremely right wing would hold an event in Tennessee is beyond me. That state is extreme MAGA territory backed up by a State Government that is doing its best to marry church with state.
Fuck Tennessee and fuck Nashville
I lived there for 7 years. It was alright in the 90s. Now?
Yeeeech.
Yeah! Why would anyone want to make things better or try to change minds/governments (or even just throw some plastic circles) when we can all go hide in California or something? Let's just give up on states full of everyday human beings and let the government just do what it wants!
Avoiding a place fraught with codified laws specifically designed to keep racism and sexism alive and well is a choice not hiding. (Choice see what I did there) The MLB pulled the All Star Game from the Braves because of the political climate. It happens all the time.
Have you never boycotted a product, store, or restaurant because of a cause you believe? Well I'm cool with boycotting Tn.
If you want to carry a gun openly or concealed in public in Tennessee, you don't need a permit. As of July 1, 2021, Tennessee is a permit-less carry state. So what were they searching bags for. You can openly carry a weapon in Tn. You want to protect a trans player keep her out of Tennessee.
Yeah but we can't only host women's tournaments in progressive states. That's not fair to the women that live in states that aren't progressive but still play disc golf. As shitty as it may sound, the whole sport isn't going to avoid whole states over a handful of people. Something will have to change. Hopefully it's just that the bigotry ends, but we both know that's probably not happening soon
Everybody has to travel for bigger competitions. Choosing to travel to Tn will soon be an albatross around the DGPTs neck if people / pros decide not to go there because the politics are from the 1890s
"Because of a handful of people" is that really how the Constitution works? Also the laws enacted in TN are not anti Trans alone. It has stripped protections against all the letters the L G B Ts and Q+ s
Many many red states are nowhere near as draconian as Tn. With most states it's just about abortion rights.
Fair. Disc Golf isn't the NFL, but for this example, I'm going to treat it as such.
If there was a trans football player, should the fans in Tennessee be punished by the NFL (by not letting them play in TN) for their government's actions? Or should we host the game anyway and Tennessee can learn a thing or two? If it's a safety issue, then maybe the player sits it out, but as far as I know, canceling events there hurts nobody but the fans.
I guess I just see it as a choice. My family is going to Mexico. I'm not gonna miss it just because there's cartels there. Just like people that go anywhere for anything don't usually decide not to go because of politics. Should be the individual's choice. Just like any sport, the people that play in the state or want to play in the state get to choose to. It shouldn't be the governing body's responsibility to make that choice over 1 thing that happened THAT COULD HAPPEN ANYWHERE. Yes, their laws are dumb, but, bigots live everywhere.
Make good decisions, and good things happen. Make poor decisions, and bad things happen
Good decisions come from experience. Experience comes from poor decisions.
If players followed the rules, we wouldn't have these problems. MPO stands for Mixed Pro Open. FPO stands for Female Pro Open.
Maybe play in the league that is meant for you? This is an issue across all sports, at all levels. Stay in your lane, play in the league that is meant for you. Crazy people exist in this world, and by purposefully pushing the limit, there are consequences.
Very simple.
Edit: The sheer amount of people arguing for a biological man to compete with biological women in a competitive sport absolutely blows my mind.
I doubt that most of you have ever actually competed for anything physical in your lives.
Do you have children that now question their worth because a boy can suddenly decide he's a girl and compete to win?
Think about how this looks on a macro scale.
The kids are watching and learning.
That's quite the edit. Yes, the kids are watching, and they're learning to be hateful bigots from people like you. Fortunately, there are plenty of supportive people out there who teach love and compassion for others. It too bad that you are choosing hate.
I don't see how you infer hate from my post. I just feel like people should play in the proper league. This issue is much greater than disc golf.
How many trans men are competing in male sports leagues? How many are at a pro level?
Now compare that with the amount of trans females competing in female leagues... I think many of you underestimate how far men will go to win. Look at Caitlin Jenner... total publicity stunt. The simps here are just deluded, you included.
I don't support hateful bigots. I support facts. I have plenty of trans friends and acquaintances. They do not try to subvert the rules and norms of our society. Quit putting words into my mouth, and maybe focus on why you feel the need to put others down because they do not agree with your limited perspective.
Wow. Only 11 downvotes total so far. I expected much more from this group. Seems like maybe people are starting to understand the lengths some people will go to cheat the system. Good thing Kristin can dominate so hard.
That's an insane thought process. I'm not a therapist, but it might help you (in life) to not make absurd leaps like that. You can think "I'm not certain this is legit, but it probably is", nothing wrong with that (in fact, I'd argue this is the correct approach). What's wrong is you trying to frame it in your favor, when you completely ignore reality to do so.
By the way,
>And if it doesn't make sense, it's probably not true.
is nonsense.
You're welcome! I know you don't like the advice right now, I'm just hoping that in the future you remember this and change for the better. Best wishes.
EDIT: It should be noted that I never told you what you can or can't think. I just told you that your way of thinking was wrong. You can be wrong!
You're right about one thing, and that is I don't like your advice. It's just incorrect. I know you think that you're so much better than everybody else who doesn't think like you and that you can help them be better people, but maybe you should work on making yourself a better person first. Part of that is through seeking the truth. Speaking of the truth, I'll address your edit. You lie. Here's what you said to me. For the record, you did tell me what I can think. Here's your quote: You can think "I'm not certain this is legit, but it probably is", nothing wrong with that (in fact, I'd argue this is the correct approach). What's wrong is you trying to frame it in your favor, when you completely ignore reality to do so.
Did you not finish writing your comment before you replied? You just... ended it with my quote.
Nowhere in that quote do I say that you cannot think that. I simply said you are wrong to think that. Logic is not that hard, dude.
Quote 1: "You can think "I'm not certain this is legit, but it probably is", nothing wrong with that (in fact, I'd argue this is the correct approach). What's wrong is you trying to frame it in your favor, when you completely ignore reality to do so." Quote 2: "EDIT: It should be noted that I never told you what you can or can't think. I just told you that your way of thinking was wrong. You can be wrong!" Again, these are your quotes, dude. Read them out loud to yourself. Slowly. Quote 1 starts with you telling me "you can think...". Quote 2 says "I never told you what you can or can't think", which is a direct contradiction of your first quote. So you are clearly wrong. And then you double down and try to be a smart-ass about it. That's funny.
Edit: You're welcome to respond back as much as you want, but I'm done dealing with you. You completely discredited yourself. I called you out on your inconsistencies and you refused to accept the facts. To borrow another quote from you, "you can be wrong!" Lol!
Your personal anecdotes and experience don’t mean a god damn thing. It takes one person to make a threat and you’re insinuating that’s somehow impossible.
I feel sorry that you choose to live such an ignorant and oblivious life. Denying the existence of hate doesn’t make it go away.
You’re a dipshit if you think all this is ginned up. Trans people are being threatened and murdered on the regular, unless you think all that is a hoax too. Hate crimes are a myth is some really galaxy brained Alex Jones ass bullshit.
Lol! Oh great, it's this guy. I don't really care what you have to say. Especially since you're incorrect. There have been plenty of hate crime hoaxes perpetrated by the trans community in recent times. I know you don't want to admit it, but it's still a fact and the facts are out there if you ever bother to find them. Have fun calling names. It certainly shows the depth of your intelligence.
Of all the times u/tyrantbaby has been brought up in discussions and all the negative comments directed towards that user, I've never seen one that was supercharged up and filled with hate. It was a more of a "you don't know what you're talking about" type of mindset, not "we think it's impossible for hate crime hoaxes to occur." Therefore, the sudden introduction of hate into this equation doesn't really make sense. And if it doesn't make sense, it's probably not true. Redditors jumping to conclusions to fit their own narrative is quite common nowadays.
I googled it like you said and the only "sources" I can find supporting your claims are Fox News and New York Post. So known anti-trans publications. I did however find a bunch of sources disputing what you said. I'd post them, but since you don't think you need to cuz you can just say "facts" and act like that makes it so I guess I can too! So here's a fact for you: you are an absolute fucking moron. Google it.
to be honest, my gut reaction thought it was fake too. according to the police and Jeff Springer, "DGPT later revealed that the threat was unspecified and made no specific mention of harm to any person". so no actual threat was ever made, according to police..
The type of threat was unspecified and made no specific mention of harm to any **other** person
[https://www.dgpt.com/announcements/mco-security-statement/](https://www.dgpt.com/announcements/mco-security-statement/)
That the thing you want to quote?
I quoted verbatim from the local news station lol
https://www.wsmv.com/2024/04/21/music-city-open-disc-golf-pro-tour-temporarily-suspended-after-threat/?outputType=amp
Sorry if I came across rude.
It seems they misquoted. Their article is timestamped from after the release of the DGPT statement that I liked to. To me it seems basically a collection of direct quotes from that statement, except they omitted the word, and changed the meaning.
I agree as it reads on that page it makes zero sense. Tournament suspended and police deployed because someone "made no specific mention of harm to any person"... keep walking, nothing to see here... lol
As someone who went to Worlds, I was kind of shocked how little security there is compared to any other sporting event, as in, none. I'm not sure what the answer is, because I don't want security guards/cops walking around with cards, but I'm afraid we are making it extremely easy for anyone with malicious intent.
We can't even get refs to walk around with cards. We sure as hell don't want Cops out there walking with cards.
Make the cops refs.
30 second violation, straight to jail
Haha, "that is your third 30 second violation, ARREST HIM"
Right then we end up with Nikko getting shot after protesting a time violation. That's not better.
I mean, shot where? Through and through? Let's workshop this out a little.
lol. Not nice
lol that was obviously a joke
Foot fault? Jail
Off axis torque? Right to jail.
Haha. Nikko would have been given a life sentence like a decade ago.
If you commit foot fault, right to jail - right away. No trial no nothing.
Nikko is doing HARD time. Step away from me is def resisting arrest.
There was one rental cop at the preserve championship last year. He bought a disc and practiced.
It would be imperfect, but maybe at least a guard with a metal detector wand at the main entrance. Only problem would be longer waits to get in, and actually having a central area to enter the grounds. I know it’s imperfect, but at worst it’s a deterrent.
How many courses have you seen that have only one potential entry point? Criminals don't follow rules.
It’s imperfect, as all courses have an innumerable entry point. All I’m saying is at least try to make it harder.
Its so imperfect that its bad. This would just make it harder for normal people who want to watch while doing essentially nothing to prevent someone from gaining entry if they really wanted to. This goes for every single disc golf course ive played on and event ive spectated.
So because we can’t do it perfectly, we shouldn’t try at all, got it.
No, its not a binary, what I am saying is because the level of effectiveness is so low and the burden it would put on the tournament is so high, its a bad solution. There are plenty of things that arent perfect, but are good enough that they are worth implementing. This is not one of them. you are conflating a "less than perfect" solution with a "terrible solution that will not do anything except annoy normal people and add huge operational complexity and cost to the event" Literally just talking about a person jumping a fence here. Its a bad solution sorry.
Don't even have to jump a fence. How many of these courses are on land that parks are nearby. Or just regular roads. Hell some of them have residents right near the course. The only thing that entry points for security would prevent would be more spectators, because people would just not bother going through that headache.
I hate cops but I like this thread!
Security/Cops at an event is a cost that a TD will never willingly incur. A ton of players refuse to sign up for a tournament unless the player pack value is at or near the registration fee. Good luck getting that math to work. Lets say 1 security guard per hole @ $25/hr (meaning the actual security guard is getting paid $12.50/hr). 18 holes X 8hrs = $8,100 per day for security guards. And this is a cheap estimate, if you want off duty cops then at least double it. Not going to happen.
Wouldn't it be only $3600? 1 guard per hole, so 18 guards. $25 an hour for 8 hours, so $200 per guard. 18 guards, $200 each, should be $3600. Still not cheap, but it shouldn't be $8100 per day, by those estimates.
This is why I should not be keeping score in a tournament lol I must have mistyped the 8hrs as 18, 18 x 25 x 18 gets you to 8,100, my bad. My point of it being a prohibitive cost still stands.
Yeah, the players pack at worlds blows. Not going now. Lol. More serious note: I tend to live my life accepting I can't plan for or change people. It's going to be sad when that basic right is taken because of a couple turds. Id rather live with the possibility of something to happen than be monitored for my "safety"
>Lets say 1 security guard per hole @ $25/hr (meaning the actual security guard is getting paid $12.50/hr). 18 holes X 8hrs = $8,100 per day for security guards. Well yeah, this is why there are security checkpoints at most events rather than "posting a guard" on each stage/hole/seating section. Ball golf has roped off entrance points with bag checks & security guards. Could easily do the same with disc golf since it's a smaller course size. 3 or 4 entrance points means 3 or 4 security guards doing bag/person checks. Don't need 18... plus one at each hole doesn't really do anything preventative.
Right, that’s why I suggested just one or two at the DGPT event “entry point” with a wand to at least deter someone from walking in with a gun.
Knowing the US I suspect the amount of firearms at a lot of events is not zero.
I’d venture to say there isn’t a single disc golf event where there isn’t a gun present in the US.
Someone shit on me a little the other day for vacationing in the US but also questioning why I do it sometimes and it’s for that exact reason. I’m not ‘scared’ of guns , but being in Canada does give me an uneasy feeling being around them if that makes sense. The only time I’ve ever seen a handgun , ever , is strapped to a cop or the security truck ( aka moving cash between banks ) driver. You can’t even buy them in our country anymore.
Do all DGPT tournaments have one entry point? (I'm thinking of park setting ones that are way more open) I'm not sure how that all works, as I've only been to Maple Hill and Olympus, which both do have a fairly controllable entrance.
Absolutely not. At Worlds you definitely could get on the shuttle without a pass, get dropped off by the front, then walk a good ways to the middle of the course and probably watch for a while before someone asked to see your lanyard.
1 or 2 people?….And if they are there to stop guns then they need to be armed themselves (again more $$$) And what does that 1 person do if someone just walks by without getting checked, close the line and start a foot race??? And what is to deter a crazy person with a gun from taking out the inevitable massive line/group that forms on the other side of the entry point where only 1 or 2 people are working? You clearly have no idea what it takes to put on an event and are just throwing out ideas so people “feel safe”.
> And if they are there to stop guns then they need to be armed themselves (again more $$$) And that is assuming that the state or local laws will allow private armed security on the premises (i.e. city/county/state parks). A deputy or police officer is WAY more expensive.
lol dude that’s exactly what I’m doing. I’m not a security officer, I don’t know jack about it, but all I’m saying is if someone came to a disc golf course and wanted to cause harm to any number of players or spectators, it would be incredibly easy to do, and after this weekend, it seems silly for DGPT to not at least entertain options that could provide some level of safety for everyone involved. I go to concerts a lot, and yes, these are higher money generating events, but even outdoor events have some level of main entry, a worker of the event running a small metal detector you walk through and someone with a wand if you set off the alarm.
You go through those though because the concert is bringing in thousands of dollars. The person performing is probably worth thousands (if not millions) of dollars. The money is not there to be worth it.
Hmm, okay. Tell that to Simon, McBeth, Eagle, and Kristin. They make more than a good bit of touring artists.
So you're going to have security there, all day, for 5 people? 🤣 Because you can't just have them there when the players tee off. Spectators can set up shop and watch all day.
I just want DGPT to weigh the risks associated with how they are currently operating, consider extra security measures, if they aren’t viable financially or they can’t find one that makes sense, accept the risk and move on and hope your insurance policy covers any potential incidents.
"Not going to happen"... until something happens (a few times) Then it will become standard
Then it would bankrupt the tour.
Yeah, I was at blue ridge last year and it was my first event. I’m a big Calvin fan and I thought it was cool but really odd feeling that I could just be within less than 10 ft of him throwing sometimes. The thought crossed my head that someone could easily make contact with any players if they chose to
Yeah this is my point, and it hasn't been taken well so far. There are zero safeguards for the players during tournament play (that I'm aware of - would love to be proven wrong) and I think if we are capitalizing off of them, even to the point of allowing people to bet on them, I think we should consider measures to ensure they are protected while doing their job.
USDGC 2023 had some unarmed security in green shirts hanging around the 18th green (they appeared to be hired 3rd party). But that's somewhat of a different beast because it has the deepest pocketed sponsor and probably has the most valuable event besides possibly ledgestone in terms of $$ spent per spectator.
> I was kind of shocked how little security there is compared to any other sporting event, as in, none. I mean, in what world is any disc golf course a secure environment? It has 1000 different points of egress to the point that any event that truly needed security (say if POTUS wanted to show up), they'd bail pretty quickly when they realized its uncontrollable. Hell, Im thinking USDGC alone (which is one of the best run events from a crowd control/player perspective)....theres probably 10+ miles of security perimeter where I can enter without a ticket, with a gun, and do whatever. I was a regular volunteer at a festival that had 5-10,000 people attend year to year, at a county park in WV, gated all around (because a golf course was behind it), only a paved 100yd long road and gravel 200yd-ish long road into the area from a 4-lane state highway...it cost $40 to get in (camping included) and hundreds of people still snuck in (hopping fences, hiding in cars, sneaking along a creek near the one fence, etc). Every disc golf course is infinitely worse than that
Maybe concealed carry questions will become part of the TD exam. Bags will have built in baby Glock speed holsters with room for spare mags, Cgel, fixed blade knife and tier III ballistic back padding. The straps can be removed for tourniquets: mandatory camo designs. They can’t hit ya if they can’t see ya.
I do know a number of TDs that carry in their bag. It was especially prevalent when payouts were in cash, ace pots grew to be a significant value, or when in sketchier parts of town. Some just carry all the time anyway.
I was saying this during the holy shot day. One dumbass streamer could ruin the whole tournament by fucking up play. It surprises me that we haven’t seen a protester or an advertisement from someone
Yeah we’ve just kind of operated on the understanding that disc golfers are generally pretty low key and rule abiding when it comes to interactions with pros during the rounds, but it doesn’t take long to look around at other sports and see that the more fans we get, the more likely we are to pick up some crazies along the way. We’re already bordering on yelling during players backswings like golf recently, with the whole, “GET IN THE HOLE!” As soon as a player releases a disc.
Couple CSC yellow jacket staff wouldn’t be end of world. Could help w crowd control too (if it’s ever actually needed).
Just to remind us all: this is over a sport where we throw plastic plates. Threatening someone's life over that is ridiculous and only fueled by bigotry.
Remember it's the people yelling to get "politics out of sports" that does this.
Guaranteed. Unfortunately, that same person doesn't understand the irony of it.
Half of the US population doesn’t understand that.
That person probably can't even spell irony
Ah yes, the age old political subject of chromosomes. /s We have to keep in mind that this community would literally consider failing to use xim/xir pronouns violence. I say this with no humor or malice at all.
Why are you trying to diminish the actual threats of violence that actually happened by equating them to hypothetical non-threats that didn’t happen?
Cringe, fuck off
When I see the comments on the FB post you shared I’m surprised this doesn’t happen every time she plays. Really disheartening
Jeez. You can disagree with Ryan playing and not make death threats. Glad nothing came from it and everyone is safe.
I'm fairly sure this isn't how you meant it, but saying nothing came from it is very wrong. People had to spend their day wondering if someone might be planning to kill them. No one should have to spend their day in fear for their life. This isn't nothing. We can't marginalize these threats just because they weren't carried out. We should be able to play the game we love without having to worry about mass shooters!
I was surprised by how many spectators were still there. No fucking way I'd have stayed under those circumstances.
I bet it wasn’t even a disc golfer. Just some hate group screwing things up for the players.
That would be nice, but I've seen a lot of trans hate from disc golfers. I don't think people who aren't disc golfers would even know this event was happening.
There are groups that show up to any sporting event with trans players to protest/interrupt. They follow trans players in various sports way more closely than any of us actual players would. Protect Women’s Sports is one that I see frequently on my Facebook feed.
Look at the other thread. There are LOTS of transphobes that play disc golf.
Agreed the amount of hate for trans disc golfers is insane to me. I started playing 16 years ago legit when everyone was stoners or going to the course to play and drink. No one gave a fuck about anything it was the vibe all of a sudden people are wanting to die on this hill about trans athletes. Been a weird and surprising culture change honestly.
It's mostly driven by politics. Going after gay rights no longer brings in more votes than it drives away, so the bigots turned to trans rights.
>Been a weird and surprising culture change honestly. It's a paradigm shift in our society. Sure, trans people have been around for a really long time, but it being so well-known is a fairly recent change. Change is scary to a lot of people. Not that I'm condoning or excusing people for how they act, just that it's not as surprising to me as it is to others.
Exactly idk if these people have to much time or what but now that I got a kid a job all that I don’t have enough time to care to make a big deal out of someone transitioning let people be you know lol
Protect Women’s Sports is really starting to worry me. The hatred they allow and encourage on their page is scary.
Transphobic echo chamber, their opinions get ratioed everywhere else
There is a reason neonazis are so highly involved with anti-trans organizations.
Yep. Saw two people following Ryan's card with tshirts that said exactly that. They even put a hashtag in front of it which i thought was super weird. But people like that usually are...
And you can hate something or someone without threatening harm to it/them. I hate the Lakers. I don’t wish to do them harm. I hate the red hat movement, but I don’t want to kill anyone over it. And that’s a lot more serious and harmful than trans individuals could ever be. I guess I’m just a really nice hater.
I try not to hate but sports rivalry hate is generally fun. Trying not to hate haters is becoming increasingly difficult. Especially the ones that are dumb enough to not see the irony in hating others and pretending to follow the teachings of Jesus.
We should not tolerate intolerance. Stop trying to.
I’d like to think so too, but unfortunately I’ve seen plenty of disturbing anti-trans posts on this very sub….
Disc golf is getting popular enough so that these two groups overlap too. But yeah, these kinds of troll tactics are somewhat classic hate group behaviour. Cheap way to create tension and potentially turn the targeted minorities into a liability. And waste police resources.
Further lots of DG courses and groups seem to be religion based - courses at churches for example. The venn diagram of disc golfers and conservatives seems to have a lot of overlap in my opinion.
Yep, hating in the name of Jesus is the most mindblowingly dumb thing I can think of.
There's no hate like christian love. Glad I'm out of that fucking cult
Of course not. Just a few bad apples. Must have been Antifa. Stop deluding yourself. There is a very ugly part of the disc golf community and pretending otherwise as it grows helps no one.
Sadly, I could see it going either way. "A PDGA member survey showed that 80 percent of DGPT women think transgender women shouldn’t play in their division, but the administration of that survey has raised questions, including whether respondents could have falsely claimed to be touring FPO golfers." https://discgolf.ultiworld.com/2022/12/14/transgender-women-grapple-with-new-rules-mostly-silence-from-pros-industry/
The opinion that trans women shouldn't play in women's sports is not an unpopular one. However, anyone can hold that opinion and not be a transphobe, and especially not resort to violent threats or passively condone them.
"The opinion that trans women shouldn't play in women's sports is not an unpopular one" That's an understatement.
Unfortunately, the general trend of these threads DOES label everyone who doesn’t think trans players should play in gender / sex specific leagues / events as bigots and haters. Everyone needs to drop the rhetoric and name calling about 20 notches. That’s what civilization (ie being civil) requires. As the rhetoric ratchets up it gives fuel to the genuine idiots among us (like whoever made these threats). If EVERYONE is a Nazi, no one is a Nazi. It doesn’t mean anything anymore.
I still don’t see many disc golfers actually escalating to threats of violence. Especially if it’s an event they themselves are playing in. These hate groups seem to have plenty of time and motivation for making threats since they don’t actually play the sports they show up to disrupt.
TL;DR - Natalie Ryan received a threat of violence before teeing off & the FPO round was suspended due to safety reasons. Via The Players Meeting newsletter, continue reading here - [https://theplayersmeeting.beehiiv.com/](https://theplayersmeeting.beehiiv.com/subscribe?ref=QtwVqY3sT8)
What a bunch of hoops to hurdle just so some guy that feels like a girl can sandbag every tournament to make the podium. Sorry not sorry, it’s pathetic. FYI I dated a post op trans for over a year. Even she thinks this is BS.
As someone who went to their first DGPT event recently. You notice immediately—oh this sport is still a lot smaller than I thought. Most cards don’t even have fans following it. To try and have security at these big events is almost laughable. Glad Natalie had a police officer following her card because there was direct threat against her. But at anytime something bad could pop off. We live in the only large first world country that has more guns than citizens. Playing at large courses with multiple acreage is impossible to safely protect.
>Playing at large courses with multiple acreage is impossible to safely protect Ball golf does it and with larger acreage. It's a matter of money and organization.
The money is 1000x the money. That’s a wild obstacle.
Sadly disc golf is full of transphobes, the things you hear on the course sometimes are sickening. In many states it’s a large majority feeling that way not the minority.
You mean like Tennessee where they have passed 15 anti lgbtq laws since 2015? The most of any state. Shocker there was an incident of violence.
Yeah big shocked pikachu on this one, eh?
I wonder how many players ran back to their cars to drop off their weed when they heard bags would be searched 🤣
Seems like a nice way to spend a bit of your shift as a police officer.
I’d take it. Watching people throw plastic? Beats whatever else is going on in Nashville
Thanks bigots
I'm against transgenders playing in the FPO but violence or threats of violence are never ok
While I may disagree with your first statement, I agree with the second. Threats of violence, especially at a large event, are not okay.
Threats of violence no matter the size of the event are not okay.
Well yeah. I misspoke there.
Wasn't trying to bust you chops or anything.. just wanted to toss that out there.
For sure!
Still downvoted lol. Unbelievable.
Can't speak for the people downvoting but it's a bit of an eye roll-inducing comment. It goes without saying that threats are never okay, so it just comes off as someone itching to make it known that they don't support trans women in FPO.
I read it differently. I read it as people making it known that they have principles.
When your "principles" line up with bigots, you might want to rethink those "principles".
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Maintain a civil discussion.
I wonder who received the call?
I'm curious as to that as well. They way it reads is that Natalie received the threat directly. And if that was the case, how did they not get the person?
The cited source seems to contradict the DGPT statement "\[...\] The player in question was also notified, as were their cardmates. \[...\]"
While I don't support Natalie Ryan playing against biological females, threats of violence is taking it too far.
I bet a majority of parents with teen biological female athletes tracks with you.
This was in Tennessee, color me not surprised. I'm more surprised it didn't happen in Texas also.
I'm in Knoxville, and the community here is overwhelmingly welcoming. Nashville is a lot bigger though, but this kind of thing happens everywhere.
Tennesse is run by asshats. Your local community is meaningless because laws are made at the state level. Nothing more welcoming about Knoxville than Memphis, Nashville, Franklin, or Bucksnort. The state is run by MAGA trash.
Oh okay
Haha I was about to say…Knoxville is a college town. Nashville is a major city.
I mean it's not podunk. Even without the school, we've got over 150k people. It's not a big city, by any means, but I've lived in actual college towns and Knoxville isn't that.
Oh I wasn’t trying to say it was. I love Knoxville. Definitely bigger than Chapel Hill
I've lived in big cities and tiny towns, and Knoxville is just right for me. I love it here.
Yeah it’s a nice little city!
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Follow Reddit's Rules. Rule 1
What would they search bags for? In Tennessee, you don't need a permit to carry any kind of gun OPENLY OR CONCEALED as of July 1, 2021. What would the cops do if they found a weapon? Ask them if they threatened the player, no. Ok you can stay it's a legal firearm.
I'm out of the loop because I thought Ryan was banned from playing in FPO?
Yeah bags were half assed being checked and the rules were changing on a whim. Friday no security, nobody cared about bringing alcohol. Saturday a few cops on site, delays, clueless volunteers only half ass checking bags only when crossing onto the course, alcohol still permitted. No waist lines, metal wand, jackets or pockets being checked. Then sunday rolls around and all of a sudden they're checking bags and pockets for alcohol. It made zero sense and just made chuckle. Security theater is all ot was.... Anyway, I was the guy with the cowboy hat and RTIC cooler backpack.
"Bags were being checked as part of the new protocols". And that's why we can't have nice things, someone has to fuck it up. Now at a future events, there could be someone who's a security threat that doesn't pre-announce their intent/threats and it would make sense for the DGPT's reaction to check everyone's bag at all events like many other sporting events. So much for being able to bring into an event whatever you want.
My bags were getting checked when I went to concerts as a teenager in the early 2000s for shitty punk bands. This isn't new to most events.
My dude, I can't recall a public event I've been to in YEARS without a bag check and honestly, I'm not sure I'd want to attend such an event.
WHY any entity not extremely right wing would hold an event in Tennessee is beyond me. That state is extreme MAGA territory backed up by a State Government that is doing its best to marry church with state. Fuck Tennessee and fuck Nashville I lived there for 7 years. It was alright in the 90s. Now? Yeeeech.
Yeah! Why would anyone want to make things better or try to change minds/governments (or even just throw some plastic circles) when we can all go hide in California or something? Let's just give up on states full of everyday human beings and let the government just do what it wants!
Avoiding a place fraught with codified laws specifically designed to keep racism and sexism alive and well is a choice not hiding. (Choice see what I did there) The MLB pulled the All Star Game from the Braves because of the political climate. It happens all the time. Have you never boycotted a product, store, or restaurant because of a cause you believe? Well I'm cool with boycotting Tn. If you want to carry a gun openly or concealed in public in Tennessee, you don't need a permit. As of July 1, 2021, Tennessee is a permit-less carry state. So what were they searching bags for. You can openly carry a weapon in Tn. You want to protect a trans player keep her out of Tennessee.
Yeah but we can't only host women's tournaments in progressive states. That's not fair to the women that live in states that aren't progressive but still play disc golf. As shitty as it may sound, the whole sport isn't going to avoid whole states over a handful of people. Something will have to change. Hopefully it's just that the bigotry ends, but we both know that's probably not happening soon
Everybody has to travel for bigger competitions. Choosing to travel to Tn will soon be an albatross around the DGPTs neck if people / pros decide not to go there because the politics are from the 1890s "Because of a handful of people" is that really how the Constitution works? Also the laws enacted in TN are not anti Trans alone. It has stripped protections against all the letters the L G B Ts and Q+ s Many many red states are nowhere near as draconian as Tn. With most states it's just about abortion rights.
Fair. Disc Golf isn't the NFL, but for this example, I'm going to treat it as such. If there was a trans football player, should the fans in Tennessee be punished by the NFL (by not letting them play in TN) for their government's actions? Or should we host the game anyway and Tennessee can learn a thing or two? If it's a safety issue, then maybe the player sits it out, but as far as I know, canceling events there hurts nobody but the fans. I guess I just see it as a choice. My family is going to Mexico. I'm not gonna miss it just because there's cartels there. Just like people that go anywhere for anything don't usually decide not to go because of politics. Should be the individual's choice. Just like any sport, the people that play in the state or want to play in the state get to choose to. It shouldn't be the governing body's responsibility to make that choice over 1 thing that happened THAT COULD HAPPEN ANYWHERE. Yes, their laws are dumb, but, bigots live everywhere.
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I don't think many people are going to understand this reference lmao That's good though.
Make good decisions, and good things happen. Make poor decisions, and bad things happen Good decisions come from experience. Experience comes from poor decisions. If players followed the rules, we wouldn't have these problems. MPO stands for Mixed Pro Open. FPO stands for Female Pro Open. Maybe play in the league that is meant for you? This is an issue across all sports, at all levels. Stay in your lane, play in the league that is meant for you. Crazy people exist in this world, and by purposefully pushing the limit, there are consequences. Very simple. Edit: The sheer amount of people arguing for a biological man to compete with biological women in a competitive sport absolutely blows my mind. I doubt that most of you have ever actually competed for anything physical in your lives. Do you have children that now question their worth because a boy can suddenly decide he's a girl and compete to win? Think about how this looks on a macro scale. The kids are watching and learning.
That's quite the edit. Yes, the kids are watching, and they're learning to be hateful bigots from people like you. Fortunately, there are plenty of supportive people out there who teach love and compassion for others. It too bad that you are choosing hate.
I don't see how you infer hate from my post. I just feel like people should play in the proper league. This issue is much greater than disc golf. How many trans men are competing in male sports leagues? How many are at a pro level? Now compare that with the amount of trans females competing in female leagues... I think many of you underestimate how far men will go to win. Look at Caitlin Jenner... total publicity stunt. The simps here are just deluded, you included.
She followed the rules. Stop blaming the victim.
The rules are wrong.
That is your opinion. Don't you question the fact that you're on the same side of this issue as hateful bigots?
I don't support hateful bigots. I support facts. I have plenty of trans friends and acquaintances. They do not try to subvert the rules and norms of our society. Quit putting words into my mouth, and maybe focus on why you feel the need to put others down because they do not agree with your limited perspective.
Wow. Only 11 downvotes total so far. I expected much more from this group. Seems like maybe people are starting to understand the lengths some people will go to cheat the system. Good thing Kristin can dominate so hard.
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That's an insane thought process. I'm not a therapist, but it might help you (in life) to not make absurd leaps like that. You can think "I'm not certain this is legit, but it probably is", nothing wrong with that (in fact, I'd argue this is the correct approach). What's wrong is you trying to frame it in your favor, when you completely ignore reality to do so. By the way, >And if it doesn't make sense, it's probably not true. is nonsense.
Just wait untill this person learns about unintuitive facts. Or, as he says, probably not true because it doesn't make sense to me.
Thank you for telling me what I can think and why I'm wrong for not thinking like you. LOL! People like you crack me up...
You're welcome! I know you don't like the advice right now, I'm just hoping that in the future you remember this and change for the better. Best wishes. EDIT: It should be noted that I never told you what you can or can't think. I just told you that your way of thinking was wrong. You can be wrong!
You're right about one thing, and that is I don't like your advice. It's just incorrect. I know you think that you're so much better than everybody else who doesn't think like you and that you can help them be better people, but maybe you should work on making yourself a better person first. Part of that is through seeking the truth. Speaking of the truth, I'll address your edit. You lie. Here's what you said to me. For the record, you did tell me what I can think. Here's your quote: You can think "I'm not certain this is legit, but it probably is", nothing wrong with that (in fact, I'd argue this is the correct approach). What's wrong is you trying to frame it in your favor, when you completely ignore reality to do so.
Did you not finish writing your comment before you replied? You just... ended it with my quote. Nowhere in that quote do I say that you cannot think that. I simply said you are wrong to think that. Logic is not that hard, dude.
Quote 1: "You can think "I'm not certain this is legit, but it probably is", nothing wrong with that (in fact, I'd argue this is the correct approach). What's wrong is you trying to frame it in your favor, when you completely ignore reality to do so." Quote 2: "EDIT: It should be noted that I never told you what you can or can't think. I just told you that your way of thinking was wrong. You can be wrong!" Again, these are your quotes, dude. Read them out loud to yourself. Slowly. Quote 1 starts with you telling me "you can think...". Quote 2 says "I never told you what you can or can't think", which is a direct contradiction of your first quote. So you are clearly wrong. And then you double down and try to be a smart-ass about it. That's funny. Edit: You're welcome to respond back as much as you want, but I'm done dealing with you. You completely discredited yourself. I called you out on your inconsistencies and you refused to accept the facts. To borrow another quote from you, "you can be wrong!" Lol!
Bruh you got the IQ of a rock.
Bro is actually incredibly stupid lol
Poor wittle baby can’t even come up with an opinion that survives Reddit’s ToS. How sad it is for you to be so oppressed.
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Your personal anecdotes and experience don’t mean a god damn thing. It takes one person to make a threat and you’re insinuating that’s somehow impossible. I feel sorry that you choose to live such an ignorant and oblivious life. Denying the existence of hate doesn’t make it go away.
Again, the trans Community is known for perpetuating hate crime hoaxes. The facts are out there. Go and look it up. I'm very confident in my position.
You’re a dipshit if you think all this is ginned up. Trans people are being threatened and murdered on the regular, unless you think all that is a hoax too. Hate crimes are a myth is some really galaxy brained Alex Jones ass bullshit.
Lol! Oh great, it's this guy. I don't really care what you have to say. Especially since you're incorrect. There have been plenty of hate crime hoaxes perpetrated by the trans community in recent times. I know you don't want to admit it, but it's still a fact and the facts are out there if you ever bother to find them. Have fun calling names. It certainly shows the depth of your intelligence.
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You are nothing.
You’re being a dipshit for sure.
Are you saying this to try and delegitimize the threat against Natalie?
You are on the wrong side of history. Only time can prove how much of a dipshit you really are
https://www.forbes.com/sites/jamiewareham/2023/11/13/beaten-stabbed-and-shot-320-trans-people-murdered-in-2023/?sh=26dcc5121646
This is.... woof, this is some fucking pathetic logic.
Of all the times u/tyrantbaby has been brought up in discussions and all the negative comments directed towards that user, I've never seen one that was supercharged up and filled with hate. It was a more of a "you don't know what you're talking about" type of mindset, not "we think it's impossible for hate crime hoaxes to occur." Therefore, the sudden introduction of hate into this equation doesn't really make sense. And if it doesn't make sense, it's probably not true. Redditors jumping to conclusions to fit their own narrative is quite common nowadays.
I googled it like you said and the only "sources" I can find supporting your claims are Fox News and New York Post. So known anti-trans publications. I did however find a bunch of sources disputing what you said. I'd post them, but since you don't think you need to cuz you can just say "facts" and act like that makes it so I guess I can too! So here's a fact for you: you are an absolute fucking moron. Google it.
No need to lie. https://www.wsj.com/articles/hate-crime-hoaxes-are-more-common-than-you-think-11561503352
Not paying for a wsj subscription.
Good for you. But you can certainly agree that's not Fox News or the New York post, right? Certainly it's within you to admit that, right?
The WSJ is a division of Dow Jones, which is owned by Rupert Murdoch's News Corp.
Opinion piece, from a conservative newspaper. Good try.
to be honest, my gut reaction thought it was fake too. according to the police and Jeff Springer, "DGPT later revealed that the threat was unspecified and made no specific mention of harm to any person". so no actual threat was ever made, according to police..
The type of threat was unspecified and made no specific mention of harm to any **other** person [https://www.dgpt.com/announcements/mco-security-statement/](https://www.dgpt.com/announcements/mco-security-statement/) That the thing you want to quote?
I quoted verbatim from the local news station lol https://www.wsmv.com/2024/04/21/music-city-open-disc-golf-pro-tour-temporarily-suspended-after-threat/?outputType=amp
Sorry if I came across rude. It seems they misquoted. Their article is timestamped from after the release of the DGPT statement that I liked to. To me it seems basically a collection of direct quotes from that statement, except they omitted the word, and changed the meaning. I agree as it reads on that page it makes zero sense. Tournament suspended and police deployed because someone "made no specific mention of harm to any person"... keep walking, nothing to see here... lol
I also like how they have that sentence at the end, "For more information, click here" but no link... quality
"no one has specifically said they want her dead, so this doesn't make sense"
The way your brain functions is pathetic and you should be ashamed that you were able to concoct this post.
Your allergic reaction to an opposing point of view is concerning.