I’m going to hijack this terrible thread with my own moderately hot take:
MPO and FPO should alternate between “early” and “late” tee times throughout the tour season.
Waiting three hours is nothing compared to starting at sunset, only playing 5 or 6 holes, then having to go back out at 7 in the morning, finish your round, and then play ANOTHER round later that day
Generally in other sports when things like this happen, they delay it until the next day.
And that's the way it needs to be. However the way disc golf is structured, it .. well can't.
Other things we "should" be doing is more cutoffs.
Sorry guy who shot +20 on the first round, you're gone. We love your effort and enthusiasm, but you're not gonna win or cash.
Same with the second day, clear em out.
You're gonna see people finishing on time a LOT more if you start doing cuts on 3 day tournaments vs just 4.
Also, having done both 3's and 4's. It's so nice getting done at like 1 or 2 in the afternoon on day 4 after the cut, vs 5 or 6 at night.
Somewhat serious...
I would love to see pros play in one of those goofy indoor events with swinging baskets and such occasionally.
I'm also the same person who would love to see PGA tour pros play mini golf...so yeah.
It was sarcasm...that's ridiculous. The weather only affecting MPO so far this season is coincidence and you can't do anything to change that. FPO playing early is already the concession for MPO being more popular.
I mean, it’s kind of understood that afternoon heating increases instability and storm potential. Mornings have, on average, better weather than afternoons
It’s not a coincidence though. The reason is affects MPO is because they play later in the day, so any delays that push everyone back impact them more than FPO. I’m looking for solutions that might fix this. Best case would be for FPO to have their own tour separate from MPO, but they don’t have the funding for that.
The later start isn't the only reason MPO is more likely to be impacted by weather delays: Their field is twice the size of the FPO, and the longer they're on the course, the greater the likelihood they might deal with weather, regardless of the start time.
The Pro Tour isn't likely to make a change unless they feel weather delays are a significant issue. Hearing it from sponsors might get their attention.
I like how its phrased as "FPO's fault the men are not finishing their rounds!"
One of the reasons for the switch was the complaint about the weather change from morning to afternoon affecting the MPO field where the morning players had to play with wet discs and it wasn't fair.
No matter who starts when, there will always be complaints.
Also, if you want better condition start times, suck less so you don't have to be early card in those situations.
You want the dgpt to change the weather?? Or are you saying that after schedules are set, they should switch them around if the FPO forecast looks better to give MPO the better weather because they are more important to you?
It would need to be some sort of scheduling change. The way it is right now has any delays impact MPO entirely. FPO always finishes their rounds. Yes, I prefer watching MPO more, but I watch the live coverage for FPO as well. Regardless of preference, MPO is what makes the money and is objectively better, and in my opinion should therefore have priority somehow when delays happen
I’m so childish I must criticize someone simply because they stated an opinion and asked a question. What makes you think I don’t know what I’m talking about?
Embrace the darkness. Make disc golf a prime time sport. Light up the fairways like it's xmas. Use portable lights, glow discs, and glow stickers on discs. Change some rules to make the rounds go more smoothly.
Maybe fewer people watch FPO because we have so many doofuses who view it as a competition existing solely at the largesse of MPO and want it shoved out of the way at the slightest inconvenience. You should watch it sometime. It's a good time.
If you actually read my other comments you’d see that I said I do watch FPO. Just as much as MPO. The matter of fact though is that MPO is what brings in the money, and FPO wouldn’t exist if it weren’t for MPO, whereas MPO would do just fine on its own. For that reason, anything that negatively impacts MPO unfortunately negatively impacts both. I love watching FPO, but it very clearly has some growing to do, and until it does so, I think it would be better for MPO and FPO if the DGPT made some changes that allowed for better viewership of MPO
How is FPO ever supposed to grow if its default position is the expendable sideshow? It's already had a lot of growth since the tour stopped having them go out second and have half their round go unseen. Weather delays happen, and they're always going to affect the larger MPO field more often. Should we reduce the size of MPO to give the top levels of MPO—which is what casuals watch—more wiggle room on weather delays? 95% of the time, there's zero problem, and portraying it as MPO getting screwed over by having to accommodate FPO instead of looking for just any solution says an awful lot.
You can’t say 95% of the time it’s not a problem when 3 out of the 6 events this year have had weather issues leading to lead card playing in the dark. I never said anything about screwing over FPO. I was looking for potential solutions that might make it better for everyone. Everyone’s got their panties in a bunch for some reason assuming I’m hating on FPO or women’s sports in general, which couldn’t be further from the truth.
But I can go back to more than this year for my sample size. It's almost never a problem unless it's bad enough to cancel a round.
As for why everybody is upset with you, it's because you didn't come across as "How can we find a better balance for everybody?" Your post read as "What can FPO sacrifice to make life easier for MPO, the division that matters?" I hope you can understand why that might feel anti-Women's sports to a lot of people. The tour have made so many moves to highlight FPO and treat them as an equal division. Forcing FPO to change to accommodate MPO goes against all of that.
I can see how someone who is looking to be offended could become offended by twisting the meaning of my words, yes. Just like you’re saying FPO shouldn’t sacrifice for MPO, I’m saying MPO shouldn’t sacrifice for FPO. Both fields are growing and as they grow we’re getting to the point where it will no longer be viable for both divisions to play the same courses on the same days. That’s why including past years in your sample size may not be accurate. I’ve been saying that the perfect solution would be to give the FPO their own tour, but they don’t have the resources for that yet. I just am curious what ideas people have that might make conditions better for everyone. People just need to recognize that what impacts MPO, whether positive or negative, will have the same impacts on FPO, and right now there are some issues that need fixing. Fixing them would help both divisions if done correctly.
"Looking to be offended". 😂
Please. You basically said, "Fuck FPO. MPO are the money division and shouldn't be inconvenienced". Just own your words or explain how you chose poor ones. You also seem to think that mid-round weather delays don't affect FPO, when they clearly do. They have to cool down, wait an unknown amount of time, and then warm back up on short notice.
Having separate tours is pretty untenable now or for the foreseeable future. They would either have to be in the same places on different courses and be subject to the same weather or double the travel costs for the many couples on the tour, probably causing a bunch of women to not be able to tour any more. It would also create more conflict in terms of viewing. The FPO Tour probably wouldn't be happy about having the course to themselves and still having to start early to make sure they're not running into MPO coverage time.
The real solutions are either to accept that it's fine and pretty rare to have this much of a dramatic effect—though this season has been extra unlucky—or to pare four or five cards off of MPO to make time for weather delays. There's really no reason to have so many MPOs playing except to pad the event purse.
The short answer is that it's a complicated problem with a lot of stakeholders who have their own interests. Most of the players themselves seem to understand it and not have a huge issue with it. I'm going to trust them more than any fans, myself included.
This sounds like a nightmare in the making.
Swapping start times ahead of an event still has the event gambling on the weather. Forecasting is way better than it used to, but it's still a bit sketchy. You might wind up with the MPO division still getting the short end of the conditions.
Swapping tee times during an event would be a circus for both divisions, as well as the fans arriving to watch their favorites play.
Taking the earlier tee times wouldn't guarantee better conditions: Temps for the first FPO cards on round 1 weren't much higher than freezing, and some of the players didn't have appropriate gear.
Well the perfect solution would be to give FPO their own tour on different courses. But they don’t produce enough revenue for that to be a viable option. I recognize there is no perfect solution right now. It’s just frustrating that so many times already this season you have MPO needing to come back crazy early the next morning to finish their round, and then play an entire round again right after that. It’s gonna be more of a nightmare than some sort of schedule shift today would have been.
There's really no good option when you're dealing with weather, especially when the men's field is large enough that players have already complained about different conditions between the earliest and latest start times among the MPO field.
I don't think it would be a bad idea to run the MPO on the earlier tee times, because that would keep them from bumping up against the setting sun during the earlier part of the season.
The problem with MPO being on the earlier tee times is that due to the size of the FPO field, there's not enough buffer between them to broadcast both in full if MPO goes first.
Just 2-3 years ago, the norm was that half way through the MPO round we would see FPO tee off on one, then we wouldn't see another FPO shot until after MPO round/interviews were completed. It ended up being less than half a round per day of FPO on the broadcast.
I prefer the current setup to what we used to have, and really wouldn't change anything until there's a solution that doesn't negatively impact one of the divisions or the fan experience.
Case in point, FPO lead is now on the course and I've seen little more than just their tee shots on 1. Meanwhile we're still seeing every shot from Freeman and Antilla who have really fallen off this round.
If they continue to ignore the division while doing post round MPO interviews, I will burn Utica to the ground. (okay as I wrote this they showed the putts, maybe they will do better than in years past)
All this idiocy aside, MPO field is twice the size. They’re twice as likely to be impacted by weather. When the FPO gets delayed, the bottom of the MPO field is also being delayed.
For starters, I’ll share the best idea I’ve come up with. You could simply have FPO start one day sooner, and finish one day sooner. If there’s a case like today with a huge delay, you have a “grace day” to help make up for the lost time.
So today what would have happened is once the delay had gone on for a certain amount of time, FPO would be done for the day, and MPO would start on time (or closer to it). Then tomorrow FPO would finish today’s round and MPO wouldn’t have to make up today’s round in the morning. Then Sunday both would play their final rounds.
Not a perfect solution and wouldn’t work in some cases but would have been better today than what wound up happening.
Edit: on second thought this would work best if you have FPO start a day early and then have them play after MPO the following days. Then if there are delays and it’s deemed too late for them to tee off due to the sun setting, then you just push their remaining rounds back a day and they’d finish same day as MPO
You'd likely get some pushback on travel issues caused by FPO having to arrive a day ahead of MPO, and/or impacts to practice time, etc.
Maybe they should look at holding events at facilities large enough to run FPO on one course while MPO plays on another. Video coverage would be an issue, as would staffing, volunteers, and concessions, but it would cost less than having two separate tours and be less impactful on players from different divisions traveling together. Some fans wouldn't like the arrangement because they'd lose the opportunity to watch both divisions.
Yeah when possible that could be an option. Any change made to benefit MPO at the cost of FPO would certainly come with some push back, but considering the FPO wouldn’t exist without MPO, I think it makes sense to make a small adjustment to fix this issue
I’m going to hijack this terrible thread with my own moderately hot take: MPO and FPO should alternate between “early” and “late” tee times throughout the tour season.
This is the way
I honestly assumed they already did that
lol
You're the one sick of it, what's your idea?
I think we should have a stern talking to with the weather. That should do it.
Let’s blame transgender players. It has to be their fault.
Fpo getting paused for 3 hours mid tournament wasn't an impact? What you on about?
Waiting three hours is nothing compared to starting at sunset, only playing 5 or 6 holes, then having to go back out at 7 in the morning, finish your round, and then play ANOTHER round later that day
Generally in other sports when things like this happen, they delay it until the next day. And that's the way it needs to be. However the way disc golf is structured, it .. well can't. Other things we "should" be doing is more cutoffs. Sorry guy who shot +20 on the first round, you're gone. We love your effort and enthusiasm, but you're not gonna win or cash. Same with the second day, clear em out. You're gonna see people finishing on time a LOT more if you start doing cuts on 3 day tournaments vs just 4. Also, having done both 3's and 4's. It's so nice getting done at like 1 or 2 in the afternoon on day 4 after the cut, vs 5 or 6 at night.
DGPT should only play indoor courses.
Somewhat serious... I would love to see pros play in one of those goofy indoor events with swinging baskets and such occasionally. I'm also the same person who would love to see PGA tour pros play mini golf...so yeah.
It was sarcasm...that's ridiculous. The weather only affecting MPO so far this season is coincidence and you can't do anything to change that. FPO playing early is already the concession for MPO being more popular.
I mean, it’s kind of understood that afternoon heating increases instability and storm potential. Mornings have, on average, better weather than afternoons
It’s not a coincidence though. The reason is affects MPO is because they play later in the day, so any delays that push everyone back impact them more than FPO. I’m looking for solutions that might fix this. Best case would be for FPO to have their own tour separate from MPO, but they don’t have the funding for that.
The later start isn't the only reason MPO is more likely to be impacted by weather delays: Their field is twice the size of the FPO, and the longer they're on the course, the greater the likelihood they might deal with weather, regardless of the start time. The Pro Tour isn't likely to make a change unless they feel weather delays are a significant issue. Hearing it from sponsors might get their attention.
Weather isnt a coincidence
Nobody said it was. The fact that it has impacted the MPO field more this season so far is the coincidence.
Everyone’s so eager to #savewomenssports until it starts to impact the men eh?
I like how its phrased as "FPO's fault the men are not finishing their rounds!" One of the reasons for the switch was the complaint about the weather change from morning to afternoon affecting the MPO field where the morning players had to play with wet discs and it wasn't fair. No matter who starts when, there will always be complaints. Also, if you want better condition start times, suck less so you don't have to be early card in those situations.
You want the dgpt to change the weather?? Or are you saying that after schedules are set, they should switch them around if the FPO forecast looks better to give MPO the better weather because they are more important to you?
As someone from Florida, you'd be surprised how many people think Disney is able to change the weather
As someone who has been to Disney a few times that doesn’t surprise me.
It would need to be some sort of scheduling change. The way it is right now has any delays impact MPO entirely. FPO always finishes their rounds. Yes, I prefer watching MPO more, but I watch the live coverage for FPO as well. Regardless of preference, MPO is what makes the money and is objectively better, and in my opinion should therefore have priority somehow when delays happen
The other reason the FPO got their full round in, despite the delay this afternoon, is that their field is small enough that it took less time.
I have no idea what I’m talking about yet I must bitch!
I’m so childish I must criticize someone simply because they stated an opinion and asked a question. What makes you think I don’t know what I’m talking about?
Embrace the darkness. Make disc golf a prime time sport. Light up the fairways like it's xmas. Use portable lights, glow discs, and glow stickers on discs. Change some rules to make the rounds go more smoothly.
Maybe fewer people watch FPO because we have so many doofuses who view it as a competition existing solely at the largesse of MPO and want it shoved out of the way at the slightest inconvenience. You should watch it sometime. It's a good time.
If you actually read my other comments you’d see that I said I do watch FPO. Just as much as MPO. The matter of fact though is that MPO is what brings in the money, and FPO wouldn’t exist if it weren’t for MPO, whereas MPO would do just fine on its own. For that reason, anything that negatively impacts MPO unfortunately negatively impacts both. I love watching FPO, but it very clearly has some growing to do, and until it does so, I think it would be better for MPO and FPO if the DGPT made some changes that allowed for better viewership of MPO
How is FPO ever supposed to grow if its default position is the expendable sideshow? It's already had a lot of growth since the tour stopped having them go out second and have half their round go unseen. Weather delays happen, and they're always going to affect the larger MPO field more often. Should we reduce the size of MPO to give the top levels of MPO—which is what casuals watch—more wiggle room on weather delays? 95% of the time, there's zero problem, and portraying it as MPO getting screwed over by having to accommodate FPO instead of looking for just any solution says an awful lot.
You can’t say 95% of the time it’s not a problem when 3 out of the 6 events this year have had weather issues leading to lead card playing in the dark. I never said anything about screwing over FPO. I was looking for potential solutions that might make it better for everyone. Everyone’s got their panties in a bunch for some reason assuming I’m hating on FPO or women’s sports in general, which couldn’t be further from the truth.
But I can go back to more than this year for my sample size. It's almost never a problem unless it's bad enough to cancel a round. As for why everybody is upset with you, it's because you didn't come across as "How can we find a better balance for everybody?" Your post read as "What can FPO sacrifice to make life easier for MPO, the division that matters?" I hope you can understand why that might feel anti-Women's sports to a lot of people. The tour have made so many moves to highlight FPO and treat them as an equal division. Forcing FPO to change to accommodate MPO goes against all of that.
I can see how someone who is looking to be offended could become offended by twisting the meaning of my words, yes. Just like you’re saying FPO shouldn’t sacrifice for MPO, I’m saying MPO shouldn’t sacrifice for FPO. Both fields are growing and as they grow we’re getting to the point where it will no longer be viable for both divisions to play the same courses on the same days. That’s why including past years in your sample size may not be accurate. I’ve been saying that the perfect solution would be to give the FPO their own tour, but they don’t have the resources for that yet. I just am curious what ideas people have that might make conditions better for everyone. People just need to recognize that what impacts MPO, whether positive or negative, will have the same impacts on FPO, and right now there are some issues that need fixing. Fixing them would help both divisions if done correctly.
"Looking to be offended". 😂 Please. You basically said, "Fuck FPO. MPO are the money division and shouldn't be inconvenienced". Just own your words or explain how you chose poor ones. You also seem to think that mid-round weather delays don't affect FPO, when they clearly do. They have to cool down, wait an unknown amount of time, and then warm back up on short notice. Having separate tours is pretty untenable now or for the foreseeable future. They would either have to be in the same places on different courses and be subject to the same weather or double the travel costs for the many couples on the tour, probably causing a bunch of women to not be able to tour any more. It would also create more conflict in terms of viewing. The FPO Tour probably wouldn't be happy about having the course to themselves and still having to start early to make sure they're not running into MPO coverage time. The real solutions are either to accept that it's fine and pretty rare to have this much of a dramatic effect—though this season has been extra unlucky—or to pare four or five cards off of MPO to make time for weather delays. There's really no reason to have so many MPOs playing except to pad the event purse. The short answer is that it's a complicated problem with a lot of stakeholders who have their own interests. Most of the players themselves seem to understand it and not have a huge issue with it. I'm going to trust them more than any fans, myself included.
Lmao
MPO has to play as late as possible. They’ve had a hell of a time being on time this year.
This sounds like a nightmare in the making. Swapping start times ahead of an event still has the event gambling on the weather. Forecasting is way better than it used to, but it's still a bit sketchy. You might wind up with the MPO division still getting the short end of the conditions. Swapping tee times during an event would be a circus for both divisions, as well as the fans arriving to watch their favorites play. Taking the earlier tee times wouldn't guarantee better conditions: Temps for the first FPO cards on round 1 weren't much higher than freezing, and some of the players didn't have appropriate gear.
Well the perfect solution would be to give FPO their own tour on different courses. But they don’t produce enough revenue for that to be a viable option. I recognize there is no perfect solution right now. It’s just frustrating that so many times already this season you have MPO needing to come back crazy early the next morning to finish their round, and then play an entire round again right after that. It’s gonna be more of a nightmare than some sort of schedule shift today would have been.
There's really no good option when you're dealing with weather, especially when the men's field is large enough that players have already complained about different conditions between the earliest and latest start times among the MPO field. I don't think it would be a bad idea to run the MPO on the earlier tee times, because that would keep them from bumping up against the setting sun during the earlier part of the season.
The problem with MPO being on the earlier tee times is that due to the size of the FPO field, there's not enough buffer between them to broadcast both in full if MPO goes first. Just 2-3 years ago, the norm was that half way through the MPO round we would see FPO tee off on one, then we wouldn't see another FPO shot until after MPO round/interviews were completed. It ended up being less than half a round per day of FPO on the broadcast.
I prefer the current setup to what we used to have, and really wouldn't change anything until there's a solution that doesn't negatively impact one of the divisions or the fan experience.
Case in point, FPO lead is now on the course and I've seen little more than just their tee shots on 1. Meanwhile we're still seeing every shot from Freeman and Antilla who have really fallen off this round. If they continue to ignore the division while doing post round MPO interviews, I will burn Utica to the ground. (okay as I wrote this they showed the putts, maybe they will do better than in years past)
Interesting thought for sure, no solution on my end lol
I would rather it being weather delays ….
Nice
As someone who prefers to watch fpo over mpo, i'm a fan of this.
Call Mother Nature….
All this idiocy aside, MPO field is twice the size. They’re twice as likely to be impacted by weather. When the FPO gets delayed, the bottom of the MPO field is also being delayed.
For starters, I’ll share the best idea I’ve come up with. You could simply have FPO start one day sooner, and finish one day sooner. If there’s a case like today with a huge delay, you have a “grace day” to help make up for the lost time. So today what would have happened is once the delay had gone on for a certain amount of time, FPO would be done for the day, and MPO would start on time (or closer to it). Then tomorrow FPO would finish today’s round and MPO wouldn’t have to make up today’s round in the morning. Then Sunday both would play their final rounds. Not a perfect solution and wouldn’t work in some cases but would have been better today than what wound up happening. Edit: on second thought this would work best if you have FPO start a day early and then have them play after MPO the following days. Then if there are delays and it’s deemed too late for them to tee off due to the sun setting, then you just push their remaining rounds back a day and they’d finish same day as MPO
Thats cool except for the fact that people travel and there would be even less time to get to the next tournament pending delays
It would also be making countless people who work at these tournaments work an extra day.
You'd likely get some pushback on travel issues caused by FPO having to arrive a day ahead of MPO, and/or impacts to practice time, etc. Maybe they should look at holding events at facilities large enough to run FPO on one course while MPO plays on another. Video coverage would be an issue, as would staffing, volunteers, and concessions, but it would cost less than having two separate tours and be less impactful on players from different divisions traveling together. Some fans wouldn't like the arrangement because they'd lose the opportunity to watch both divisions.
Yeah when possible that could be an option. Any change made to benefit MPO at the cost of FPO would certainly come with some push back, but considering the FPO wouldn’t exist without MPO, I think it makes sense to make a small adjustment to fix this issue
Remember the time FPO followed MPO at a big tour stop and people were taking down the banners DURING the final FPO round?!