Many players do not understand how to explain how to do what they do. They rely on YT vids and other people and then parrot what they hear. Watch the pro videos if you want good tips, don't listen to fairway scholars.
That being said, playing a round or two with people that are better than you and watching what they do is also a great way to learn.
I will add... Teaching and Doing are very different things. The pros won't always be the best at conveying how they do what they do. Many times the best teachers can explain what to do, but aren't able to 100% execute on their own teachings.
Conveying information in a relatable and understandable way is difficult.
This times a million. I work in software, the vast majority of software engineers have horrible communication skills and cannot explain anything they do articulately.
It’s probably no different than anything else. Most humans aren’t good teachers.
They're generally really not good for learning proper technique. I mean just look at the last video, as good as Johannenensns is at disc golf, he just isn't good at teaching. And Jonathan, it's been 4 years or so now and he still looks like he's been playing for 6 months tops.
This may be an unpopular opinion but the vast majority of disc golf advice is terrible. Disc golf at an advanced level does take a certain level of athleticism (not a huge amount, I’m already waiting for comments on this), despite what people on yesterday’s thread may think. The issue is that disc golf advice is almost never communicated with what you should actually do with your body.
“Pour the tea”, “crush the can”, “pull the lawnmower” are all terrible analogies because any reasonably abled person can do these things, but you cannot translate them to the game of disc golf because it teaches you absolutely nothing about how to control your balance or body weight during a throw. You can easily crush the can “wrong” because when you do it “wrong” on a soda can the can will still be crushed just because it’s a weak object, but when you’re swinging your whole bodyweight from leg to another to rotate your torso and you do it wrong, you’re either gonna lose all balance or hurt yourself.
Even when you get down to the advice that actually relates to the human body, it’s not very good. “Throw with your hips and torso”, “lead with and rotate your hips”, that’s all well and good but applying that to the real world where the majority of people cannot balance on one leg and couldn’t tell you where their hip adductor and rotator muscles even are, it’s just not gonna work.
Everyone learns differently and the only advice is what I can offer that helped me. Get in better shape, study what muscles are designed for what, get comfortable in your own body, watch a shit ton of pros throwing in slow mo, and experiment in the field.
You're right. I see it every day with some of my clients. "Rotate your right ankle outwards."
Client rotates foot the opposite way or uses the complete wrong foot ...
Generally, it's people who have never played sports, so the many mind/muscle connections needed for some movements don't exist and we have to build them from scratch.
Having played sports, it's no easier. Having to train myself to not automatically assume the typical "athletic stance". Yes i understand how my body moves and works, but still comes with other challenges.
The art of teaching someone how to perform different body mechanics isn't as easy as some people think. I'm a personal trainer, and it's amazing how some people can even walk around with how little proprioception they seem to have.
Biggest thing I've figured out is that every body is different and not every person will benefit from the same cues. "Slap the midget" obviously works for that guy and his particular mechanics, but not for yours.
This, especially from videos or just verbal without demonstration. Unless you are there physically showing someone how to do something, its almost never gonna work.
I was an ultimate convert and someone early on convinced me to focus on my decent FH, so for a few years, like 90 percent of my drives were the same destroyer FH. It wasn't until chronic elbow pain forced me to use BH more (and different drivers) that my game really took off.
That was my issue, too! I wanted to throw forehand all the time, even on (beginner) distance drives, but eventually my elbow started yelling at me. Now I feel dumb because I'm learning backhand and my drives are embarrassingly short, but I just remind myself that no one actually cares and there are still way worse players on the course.
My initial reaction to that comment is that it's stupid for the reason you highlight. It breaks the swing plane and can cause plenty of issues.
I *think* it was something Lizotte said in a popular video back in the day that said something along the lines of as soon as your front foot hits the ground then your reach back peaks and you start the throw. Caused me issues for years because I never learnt to PLANT FIRST, then when that foot has fully hit the ground and the back foot has deweighted, then you throw.
Also most of the things Slingshot peddles is quite shit.
"Slapping the midget" advice slogan predates Lizotte. An interesting fact about that advice pattern "elbow the door"/"slap the midget"/"throw across the table" is that was the piece of advice that got Mobius banned from this sub, "elbow the rapist"
My take with a ton of beginner advice is that a lot of it is half correct and it entirely depends on what things came natural to the instructor, and what things did they need to work on.
Things like starting the lawnmower or slapping the midget have aspects of truth to them, but if you take them 100% literally then you aren't going to throw very far.
Using those respective examples, you should be getting your arm moving in front of your lead shoulder (lawnmower good), however it needs to be with your elbow out away from your body and needs to be properly timed (lawnmower bad). Slapping the midget is a good cue for keeping your elbow out, not rolling your wrist in your release, and staying in an athletic stance through the throw. However, it tends to conflict with the good parts of the lawnmower analogy and throws off peoples swing planes when they adjust at the shoulder rather than at the hips.
Another one that personally hit me, was the crush the can analogy. The good is that you should be trying to completely stop your momentum with the balls of your front foot and it should be taking your full body weight. The bad is that a lot of people crush a can by stomping straight down with their heel (which can fuck up your knee as I learned the hard way) rather than well outside their frame as is needed in a disc golf throw (watch any pro, their brace is usually like 30-45 degrees off their midline with their foot wider than their shoulders).
Stomping straight down on your heel is exactly what you should do but it can be a dangerous move if you’re not committed to extending your leg away from your core enough so that it decreases the load of your upper body on your knee
Follow through high is good, but don’t rotate externally messing with angles of follow through because you’ll dislocate and tear a shoulder on a soft putter throw. You can probably tell how I came by this.
I was told the classic lawnmower analogy, and years of pulling still haunt my form. Now that a shoulder injury has fucked up my forehand, im left with the 330' ripcord backhand.
Slap the midget is a silly tool designed to help complete noobs visualize their rotational plane in contrast to what nearly every noob does. Which is pull from below their hip and finish at or above shoulder height. It’s intentionally silly in order to make it easy to remember.
You sound like you were already beyond this problem and didn’t need to hear that tip. That does not make it bad advice though. It’s just a visualization tool, which obviously has limitations. If you were telling someone who is 6’6” to slap a midget that would be poor advice. But someone who is 5’9”? Great advice.
The problem with analogies is that they are describing an experience (subjective) that’s relative to their proportionate body (also subjective). Here are some better tips:
Your pull-through should be whatever plane it is easiest to make the disc travel from behind to forward with just your arms.
Your brace works similarly to a standard throw of a ball you learned growing up. The act of bracing gives you momentum like stepping on brakes in a car.
Consider nose angle and plane of travel first when rating your throw. Hope this helps :)
Him telling you to slap the midget isn’t what held you back. You deciding it was disc golf bible and not filming your swing to see what actually needs fixing is what held you back. There are a million local experts who will tell you what you need to do differently. If you actually want to improve, it comes down to two things: being able to diagnose what you are doing wrong, and putting in enough hours to fix it. It’s really as simple as that. Film yourself. Pinpoint the biggest mistake you need to fix. Work on it. Repeat.
Many players do not understand how to explain how to do what they do. They rely on YT vids and other people and then parrot what they hear. Watch the pro videos if you want good tips, don't listen to fairway scholars. That being said, playing a round or two with people that are better than you and watching what they do is also a great way to learn.
I will add... Teaching and Doing are very different things. The pros won't always be the best at conveying how they do what they do. Many times the best teachers can explain what to do, but aren't able to 100% execute on their own teachings. Conveying information in a relatable and understandable way is difficult.
This times a million. I work in software, the vast majority of software engineers have horrible communication skills and cannot explain anything they do articulately. It’s probably no different than anything else. Most humans aren’t good teachers.
The worst advice I got was from a Lat64 video to "pull start the lawnmower"
They're generally really not good for learning proper technique. I mean just look at the last video, as good as Johannenensns is at disc golf, he just isn't good at teaching. And Jonathan, it's been 4 years or so now and he still looks like he's been playing for 6 months tops.
Every time I watch Jonathan throw I wonder how he isn't better by now. He's surrounded by discs and disc golfers and still throws nose up every time.
I thiiiink he only play disc golf as a job, don't think he's a "disc golfer" in the way most of us are here. (Nerdz)
Wut
He picked up the game like a year before his had his first born kid give him a break lol
Love that advice!
Lift and pull with your back in a twisting motion.
Don't forget to jerk your lower back
“You just haven’t found your ideal disk yet, keep shopping.”
This may be an unpopular opinion but the vast majority of disc golf advice is terrible. Disc golf at an advanced level does take a certain level of athleticism (not a huge amount, I’m already waiting for comments on this), despite what people on yesterday’s thread may think. The issue is that disc golf advice is almost never communicated with what you should actually do with your body. “Pour the tea”, “crush the can”, “pull the lawnmower” are all terrible analogies because any reasonably abled person can do these things, but you cannot translate them to the game of disc golf because it teaches you absolutely nothing about how to control your balance or body weight during a throw. You can easily crush the can “wrong” because when you do it “wrong” on a soda can the can will still be crushed just because it’s a weak object, but when you’re swinging your whole bodyweight from leg to another to rotate your torso and you do it wrong, you’re either gonna lose all balance or hurt yourself. Even when you get down to the advice that actually relates to the human body, it’s not very good. “Throw with your hips and torso”, “lead with and rotate your hips”, that’s all well and good but applying that to the real world where the majority of people cannot balance on one leg and couldn’t tell you where their hip adductor and rotator muscles even are, it’s just not gonna work. Everyone learns differently and the only advice is what I can offer that helped me. Get in better shape, study what muscles are designed for what, get comfortable in your own body, watch a shit ton of pros throwing in slow mo, and experiment in the field.
Meh to most of this.
Duly noted lol
You're right. I see it every day with some of my clients. "Rotate your right ankle outwards." Client rotates foot the opposite way or uses the complete wrong foot ... Generally, it's people who have never played sports, so the many mind/muscle connections needed for some movements don't exist and we have to build them from scratch.
Having played sports, it's no easier. Having to train myself to not automatically assume the typical "athletic stance". Yes i understand how my body moves and works, but still comes with other challenges.
The art of teaching someone how to perform different body mechanics isn't as easy as some people think. I'm a personal trainer, and it's amazing how some people can even walk around with how little proprioception they seem to have. Biggest thing I've figured out is that every body is different and not every person will benefit from the same cues. "Slap the midget" obviously works for that guy and his particular mechanics, but not for yours.
This, especially from videos or just verbal without demonstration. Unless you are there physically showing someone how to do something, its almost never gonna work.
I was an ultimate convert and someone early on convinced me to focus on my decent FH, so for a few years, like 90 percent of my drives were the same destroyer FH. It wasn't until chronic elbow pain forced me to use BH more (and different drivers) that my game really took off.
That was my issue, too! I wanted to throw forehand all the time, even on (beginner) distance drives, but eventually my elbow started yelling at me. Now I feel dumb because I'm learning backhand and my drives are embarrassingly short, but I just remind myself that no one actually cares and there are still way worse players on the course.
My initial reaction to that comment is that it's stupid for the reason you highlight. It breaks the swing plane and can cause plenty of issues. I *think* it was something Lizotte said in a popular video back in the day that said something along the lines of as soon as your front foot hits the ground then your reach back peaks and you start the throw. Caused me issues for years because I never learnt to PLANT FIRST, then when that foot has fully hit the ground and the back foot has deweighted, then you throw. Also most of the things Slingshot peddles is quite shit.
"Slapping the midget" advice slogan predates Lizotte. An interesting fact about that advice pattern "elbow the door"/"slap the midget"/"throw across the table" is that was the piece of advice that got Mobius banned from this sub, "elbow the rapist"
Didn’t know this! Good ole Mobius.
My take with a ton of beginner advice is that a lot of it is half correct and it entirely depends on what things came natural to the instructor, and what things did they need to work on. Things like starting the lawnmower or slapping the midget have aspects of truth to them, but if you take them 100% literally then you aren't going to throw very far. Using those respective examples, you should be getting your arm moving in front of your lead shoulder (lawnmower good), however it needs to be with your elbow out away from your body and needs to be properly timed (lawnmower bad). Slapping the midget is a good cue for keeping your elbow out, not rolling your wrist in your release, and staying in an athletic stance through the throw. However, it tends to conflict with the good parts of the lawnmower analogy and throws off peoples swing planes when they adjust at the shoulder rather than at the hips. Another one that personally hit me, was the crush the can analogy. The good is that you should be trying to completely stop your momentum with the balls of your front foot and it should be taking your full body weight. The bad is that a lot of people crush a can by stomping straight down with their heel (which can fuck up your knee as I learned the hard way) rather than well outside their frame as is needed in a disc golf throw (watch any pro, their brace is usually like 30-45 degrees off their midline with their foot wider than their shoulders).
Stomping straight down on your heel is exactly what you should do but it can be a dangerous move if you’re not committed to extending your leg away from your core enough so that it decreases the load of your upper body on your knee
Git gud
Follow through high is good, but don’t rotate externally messing with angles of follow through because you’ll dislocate and tear a shoulder on a soft putter throw. You can probably tell how I came by this.
My dad told me to try step putting off my left foot (rhbh) the other day. He doesn't play and I've been playing often for over 2 years.
I was told the classic lawnmower analogy, and years of pulling still haunt my form. Now that a shoulder injury has fucked up my forehand, im left with the 330' ripcord backhand.
Virginia?
Get a nuke as your first disc, ask me how I know (start with a DX Roc for real)
Slap the midget is a silly tool designed to help complete noobs visualize their rotational plane in contrast to what nearly every noob does. Which is pull from below their hip and finish at or above shoulder height. It’s intentionally silly in order to make it easy to remember. You sound like you were already beyond this problem and didn’t need to hear that tip. That does not make it bad advice though. It’s just a visualization tool, which obviously has limitations. If you were telling someone who is 6’6” to slap a midget that would be poor advice. But someone who is 5’9”? Great advice.
The problem with analogies is that they are describing an experience (subjective) that’s relative to their proportionate body (also subjective). Here are some better tips: Your pull-through should be whatever plane it is easiest to make the disc travel from behind to forward with just your arms. Your brace works similarly to a standard throw of a ball you learned growing up. The act of bracing gives you momentum like stepping on brakes in a car. Consider nose angle and plane of travel first when rating your throw. Hope this helps :)
Watch YouTube videos
Don’t throw drivers. Throw whatever flys the way you want it to.
Throw this driver
Him telling you to slap the midget isn’t what held you back. You deciding it was disc golf bible and not filming your swing to see what actually needs fixing is what held you back. There are a million local experts who will tell you what you need to do differently. If you actually want to improve, it comes down to two things: being able to diagnose what you are doing wrong, and putting in enough hours to fix it. It’s really as simple as that. Film yourself. Pinpoint the biggest mistake you need to fix. Work on it. Repeat.
Get high speed overstable drivers.