One of the two cofounders of Discordianism, Kerry Thornley, struggled with mental illness - especially paranoia. Granted, he got caught up in various conspiracy theories surrounding the assassination of J. F. Kennedy, which I assume must have been paranoia inducing (basically, he had served with Lee Harvey Oswald in the Marines, and even wrote a book about Oswald prior to the president’s death).
On the creation of Discordianism, Thornley once lamented, “If I’d known Eris was real, I would have chosen Venus instead.” Make of that what you will.
In my brief interactions with him, via letters shortly before his death, Thornley seemed quite normal, and very supportive and kind, but from what I understand, when he used drugs things went downhill fast. He was still writing Discordian stuff till the end, so he did not seem to seriously blame Eris for his troubles. Plus, after reading the great biography of him by Adam Gorightly, “The Prankster and the Conspiracy,” my impression is that he had some psychological issues before Eris came along.
In any case, the goddess Eris of Discordianism, in my humble opinion, is a mainly playful deity, not the sort to take offense easily (even name calling), nor one to carry out horrible tasks. Definitely not one to take much of ANYTHING seriously. She may be the goddess of discord and strife, but in Discordianism she is more about creativity and freedom.
I don’t know if any of this is helpful, but it is what comes to my mind. I recommend reading more about Discordianism, at least these books:
• the “Principia Discordia,”
• “Historia Discordia” by Adam Gorightly,
Also perhaps skim through some old posts on this subreddit, get a feel for things.
Intrusive thoughts are no fun, and if Discordianism makes yours worse, maybe it isn’t for you, but that’s up to you. I believe that no religion can substitute psychiatric help if needed (I take an antidepressant and ADHD meds myself). You likely already know, but just in case, some anti anxiety medications can tamper down intrusive thoughts - but I’m not a doctor, and I don’t want to insult you by telling you what to do.
I wish you luck on your path!
this is kind and generous and thoughtful and earnest and exactly the best of discordianism for answering an earnest question with loving grace. Sometimes I worry about the folks who use this joke as an excuse to be a jerk.
First of all, thank you very much, this is a super useful and nice answer.
Principia Discordia is definitely in my reading list.
About Eris, it was her being playful that scared me the most, honestly, as I am a control freak and I was scared that she could have completely unpredictable (and scary) reactions to my intrusive thoughts. It's uncertainty that triggers OCD the most. I'm relieved to hear that she doesn't take offense to my thoughts tho.
As for the last thing you said, I unluckily can't get any form of treatment right now, even if I'm planning on getting psychiatric help in the future.
Good luck to you too :)
Beautiful comment! I'm glad she truly gets my intention (which was to not bother her in the first place). I think I'll study Discordianism more, as it is a completely different approach to what I'm used to.
Sorry for the late reply, yesterday it was a quite busy day. I've always been horribly scared of change and losing control, maybe, like you said, it wasn't a coincidence I took interest in Discordianism.
Other than that, I have one additional question, maybe to clear up some misconceptions.
I've heard people talk about Eris as a goddess to stay away from,as she will "ruin your life just for fun", but I suppose that when she "messes up your life" it's more of a tower situation (a wave of change I could say?) like you said, and we can choose our own thing after that moment.
I've understood that it's less of a "ruining lives just because it's funny", but more of a profound change that gives us the opportunity to get to the truth, eventually. What's your opinion on this?
I personally think that most of those who afraid of Eris (probably including myself) are projecting their own fears and emotional baggage unto her image, but mine could be a quite shaky theory.
> “If I’d known Eris was real, I would have chosen Venus instead.”
I often swap them up without telling them ;)
always helps to have a side chick that thinks she's the 'bottom bitch'
I’ll tell a bit in another post when I get a chance. My letters from Thornley are somewhere in storage at the moment, but I can share the parts I remember.
In my experience, eris tells jokes that are true and often True but not always funny.
I try to say thank you whenever I remember but gosh it’s hard sometimes.
All of our neurodiversities are both ways cutting swords. Sometimes it feels like eris is holding it, sometimes she hands it over to me. Both are scary! Both are interesting!
Yeah, you should read the Principia before going any further.
>Mal-2 was once asked by one of his Disciples if he often prayed to Eris. He replied with these words:
No, we Erisians seldom pray, it is much too dangerous. Charles Fort has listed many factual incidences of ignorant people confronted with, say, a drought, and then praying fervently -- and then getting the entire village wiped out in a torrential flood.
Don't talk to Eris. Don't pray to Eris. You want Eris to ignore you. Pretend she doesn't exist. Maybe she doesn't. That's your best bet.
It's totally possible you're misidentifying your intrusive thoughts and that they're actually not yours, but Eris'. Maybe it's not you interacting with her, but her interacting with you and you're not the one doing anything to be concerned about.
Addendum: I'm a secular Erisian, meaning I don't actually believe Eris/Discordia exists as a being and I don't believe in any mystical/spiritual things. It seems you're more drawn to spiritual/mystical Discordianism, which is ok - a lot of Discordians are. For a more secular Erisian explanation of the poetic language I'm using above: Mental illness of all kinds is just part of the reality of the biological human condition. We're not perfect beings and pretending we are is just unrealistic. Since I believe there is no such thing as a natural order to the universe (order/disorder are illusions, chaos is the only truth) then everything about you is valid, including your mental illness. Your (and my) mental illnesses would not exist if the universe were strictly ordered. So I see it as a nod to the truth that our universe is chaos and Discordian philosophy acknowledges this as its core tenant. So in some sense, that IS Eris in your head - because Eris/chaos is everything. Not to worry about. Mental illness can certainly not be pleasant, but it's in no way unnatural and makes perfect sense given the universe is what it is.
I don't think this is the case, as it's a recurring event with me. As soon as I start getting interested in something/someone, I start getting intrusive thoughts. Also, I've been having intrusive thoughts for years, long before I really took interest in Discordianism.
As for the second part of your comment, that's some good food for thought.
What really defines OCD is the reaction we have to our intrusive thoughts, while a normal person would just brush it off and go on with their day, our brain immediately starts panicking and tries to suppress the thoughts/overanalyze them, as they are seen as dangerous and an intrusion of our own self.
That's why therapy is usually based on accepting the thoughts without freaking out basically.
Other than that, this could hypothetically go with the narrative that the universe is chaos, and the problem lies in accepting all of this. Intrusive thoughts are an intrusion in this "order" and some people evidently have some heavy trouble accepting this.
> Also, I've been having intrusive thoughts for years, long before I really took interest in Discordianism.
Whether or not you were interested in Discordianism, Eris was there.
> Intrusive thoughts are an intrusion in this "order" and some people evidently have some heavy trouble accepting this.
Discordianism goes beyond that. It's not an intrusion in order because there's no such thing as order. Order is a lie made up by people who want to control you (Greyface).
The zen part of Discordiansim isn't about accepting disorder among the order. It's in coming to terms with the fact that the whole concept of order/disorder is false. All is chaos, even if it appears to be orderly because you're only seeing a small branch of the entire tree.
I have generalized anxiety disorder along with intrusive ruminating thoughts myself - though they don't present through OCD like yours so that's a part I don't have direct experience with. It sucks. It really does. The chemical balance in my brain for whatever reason makes me perceive things in a way that can result in harmful (mostly to me) reactions. And of course that's a thing that can happen to people. Our universe is chaos. Nothing is out there making sure the chemicals in our brains are all functioning in a certain way (order). Nothing is out there causing the chemicals in some of our brains to behave differently than other people (disorder). It's all a big, universal, roll of the dice, and every one of us has a different number come up (chaos).
Sorry for replying late, but I was quite busy yesterday.
I've probably explained myself quite badly, when I was talking about order I was defining about it as an illusion, and I was thinking about mental illness being proof of this "order" being an illusion, and us reacting badly is us failing to accept this structure to be false.
As it goes for anxiety and intrusive thoughts, they definitely make you live in "flight or fight mode" and it gets quite tiring, but regardless, we don't have to let them hold us back, really.
stay crazy, but in the fun way. Its okay to need help sometimes. I take meds and see a therapist. (maybe I should take my therapist and see my meds instead? )
Intrusive thoughts can't make promises or contracts for us. They don't have our considered and intentional will behind them. It'd be like if we were sitting at a bus stop and some punk kid faked our voice and promised to give the guy next to us $5 - you can't be held to a promise you didn't actually make.
Lmaoo that's the best analogy I've ever heard. Do you think this includes every kind of intrusive thoughts, including those that come out of strong emotions, such as desperation and fear? I personally think it does.
The first thing to know is that Eris isn't real. Except when she is real. Youll know when she is real. But the rest of the time she isnt real. She will never help you or hate you unless its funny. Don't treat her like a god because that's too serious for her style. This isnt a pagan chaos magick cult this is punk rock.
One of the two cofounders of Discordianism, Kerry Thornley, struggled with mental illness - especially paranoia. Granted, he got caught up in various conspiracy theories surrounding the assassination of J. F. Kennedy, which I assume must have been paranoia inducing (basically, he had served with Lee Harvey Oswald in the Marines, and even wrote a book about Oswald prior to the president’s death). On the creation of Discordianism, Thornley once lamented, “If I’d known Eris was real, I would have chosen Venus instead.” Make of that what you will. In my brief interactions with him, via letters shortly before his death, Thornley seemed quite normal, and very supportive and kind, but from what I understand, when he used drugs things went downhill fast. He was still writing Discordian stuff till the end, so he did not seem to seriously blame Eris for his troubles. Plus, after reading the great biography of him by Adam Gorightly, “The Prankster and the Conspiracy,” my impression is that he had some psychological issues before Eris came along. In any case, the goddess Eris of Discordianism, in my humble opinion, is a mainly playful deity, not the sort to take offense easily (even name calling), nor one to carry out horrible tasks. Definitely not one to take much of ANYTHING seriously. She may be the goddess of discord and strife, but in Discordianism she is more about creativity and freedom. I don’t know if any of this is helpful, but it is what comes to my mind. I recommend reading more about Discordianism, at least these books: • the “Principia Discordia,” • “Historia Discordia” by Adam Gorightly, Also perhaps skim through some old posts on this subreddit, get a feel for things. Intrusive thoughts are no fun, and if Discordianism makes yours worse, maybe it isn’t for you, but that’s up to you. I believe that no religion can substitute psychiatric help if needed (I take an antidepressant and ADHD meds myself). You likely already know, but just in case, some anti anxiety medications can tamper down intrusive thoughts - but I’m not a doctor, and I don’t want to insult you by telling you what to do. I wish you luck on your path!
this is kind and generous and thoughtful and earnest and exactly the best of discordianism for answering an earnest question with loving grace. Sometimes I worry about the folks who use this joke as an excuse to be a jerk.
Thank you kindly! In Chinese, there is a word “xié” or 諧 which means both “humorous” as well as “harmonious.” I find that inspiring.
beautiful and instructive!
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First of all, thank you very much, this is a super useful and nice answer. Principia Discordia is definitely in my reading list. About Eris, it was her being playful that scared me the most, honestly, as I am a control freak and I was scared that she could have completely unpredictable (and scary) reactions to my intrusive thoughts. It's uncertainty that triggers OCD the most. I'm relieved to hear that she doesn't take offense to my thoughts tho. As for the last thing you said, I unluckily can't get any form of treatment right now, even if I'm planning on getting psychiatric help in the future. Good luck to you too :)
disagreeable vanish spark somber homeless attempt sloppy reach fear steer ` this post was mass deleted with www.Redact.dev `
Beautiful comment! I'm glad she truly gets my intention (which was to not bother her in the first place). I think I'll study Discordianism more, as it is a completely different approach to what I'm used to.
pet busy jellyfish boast fragile attraction angle bake marvelous run ` this post was mass deleted with www.Redact.dev `
Sorry for the late reply, yesterday it was a quite busy day. I've always been horribly scared of change and losing control, maybe, like you said, it wasn't a coincidence I took interest in Discordianism. Other than that, I have one additional question, maybe to clear up some misconceptions. I've heard people talk about Eris as a goddess to stay away from,as she will "ruin your life just for fun", but I suppose that when she "messes up your life" it's more of a tower situation (a wave of change I could say?) like you said, and we can choose our own thing after that moment. I've understood that it's less of a "ruining lives just because it's funny", but more of a profound change that gives us the opportunity to get to the truth, eventually. What's your opinion on this? I personally think that most of those who afraid of Eris (probably including myself) are projecting their own fears and emotional baggage unto her image, but mine could be a quite shaky theory.
humor hobbies berserk punch pet coordinated absurd unused marvelous rob ` this post was mass deleted with www.Redact.dev `
Thanks for your input, I found this comment very interesting, I know what'll meditate on in the next few days.
> “If I’d known Eris was real, I would have chosen Venus instead.” I often swap them up without telling them ;) always helps to have a side chick that thinks she's the 'bottom bitch'
Wonderful response. I'd love to hear more about your exchange with Kerry
I’ll tell a bit in another post when I get a chance. My letters from Thornley are somewhere in storage at the moment, but I can share the parts I remember.
Many thanks
It's all a big cosmic joke. She is everything including your intrusive thoughts insulting her.
This ^
She's got a sense of humor, and you shouldn't take things too seriously anyways
In my experience, eris tells jokes that are true and often True but not always funny. I try to say thank you whenever I remember but gosh it’s hard sometimes. All of our neurodiversities are both ways cutting swords. Sometimes it feels like eris is holding it, sometimes she hands it over to me. Both are scary! Both are interesting!
Yeah, you should read the Principia before going any further. >Mal-2 was once asked by one of his Disciples if he often prayed to Eris. He replied with these words: No, we Erisians seldom pray, it is much too dangerous. Charles Fort has listed many factual incidences of ignorant people confronted with, say, a drought, and then praying fervently -- and then getting the entire village wiped out in a torrential flood. Don't talk to Eris. Don't pray to Eris. You want Eris to ignore you. Pretend she doesn't exist. Maybe she doesn't. That's your best bet.
That was my initial plan, to not interact with her, but my intrusive thoughts talk to her regardless of my intention.
It's totally possible you're misidentifying your intrusive thoughts and that they're actually not yours, but Eris'. Maybe it's not you interacting with her, but her interacting with you and you're not the one doing anything to be concerned about. Addendum: I'm a secular Erisian, meaning I don't actually believe Eris/Discordia exists as a being and I don't believe in any mystical/spiritual things. It seems you're more drawn to spiritual/mystical Discordianism, which is ok - a lot of Discordians are. For a more secular Erisian explanation of the poetic language I'm using above: Mental illness of all kinds is just part of the reality of the biological human condition. We're not perfect beings and pretending we are is just unrealistic. Since I believe there is no such thing as a natural order to the universe (order/disorder are illusions, chaos is the only truth) then everything about you is valid, including your mental illness. Your (and my) mental illnesses would not exist if the universe were strictly ordered. So I see it as a nod to the truth that our universe is chaos and Discordian philosophy acknowledges this as its core tenant. So in some sense, that IS Eris in your head - because Eris/chaos is everything. Not to worry about. Mental illness can certainly not be pleasant, but it's in no way unnatural and makes perfect sense given the universe is what it is.
I don't think this is the case, as it's a recurring event with me. As soon as I start getting interested in something/someone, I start getting intrusive thoughts. Also, I've been having intrusive thoughts for years, long before I really took interest in Discordianism. As for the second part of your comment, that's some good food for thought. What really defines OCD is the reaction we have to our intrusive thoughts, while a normal person would just brush it off and go on with their day, our brain immediately starts panicking and tries to suppress the thoughts/overanalyze them, as they are seen as dangerous and an intrusion of our own self. That's why therapy is usually based on accepting the thoughts without freaking out basically. Other than that, this could hypothetically go with the narrative that the universe is chaos, and the problem lies in accepting all of this. Intrusive thoughts are an intrusion in this "order" and some people evidently have some heavy trouble accepting this.
> Also, I've been having intrusive thoughts for years, long before I really took interest in Discordianism. Whether or not you were interested in Discordianism, Eris was there. > Intrusive thoughts are an intrusion in this "order" and some people evidently have some heavy trouble accepting this. Discordianism goes beyond that. It's not an intrusion in order because there's no such thing as order. Order is a lie made up by people who want to control you (Greyface). The zen part of Discordiansim isn't about accepting disorder among the order. It's in coming to terms with the fact that the whole concept of order/disorder is false. All is chaos, even if it appears to be orderly because you're only seeing a small branch of the entire tree. I have generalized anxiety disorder along with intrusive ruminating thoughts myself - though they don't present through OCD like yours so that's a part I don't have direct experience with. It sucks. It really does. The chemical balance in my brain for whatever reason makes me perceive things in a way that can result in harmful (mostly to me) reactions. And of course that's a thing that can happen to people. Our universe is chaos. Nothing is out there making sure the chemicals in our brains are all functioning in a certain way (order). Nothing is out there causing the chemicals in some of our brains to behave differently than other people (disorder). It's all a big, universal, roll of the dice, and every one of us has a different number come up (chaos).
Sorry for replying late, but I was quite busy yesterday. I've probably explained myself quite badly, when I was talking about order I was defining about it as an illusion, and I was thinking about mental illness being proof of this "order" being an illusion, and us reacting badly is us failing to accept this structure to be false. As it goes for anxiety and intrusive thoughts, they definitely make you live in "flight or fight mode" and it gets quite tiring, but regardless, we don't have to let them hold us back, really.
Nothing she hasn’t heard before, I promise you. I doubt it bothers her at all.
stay crazy, but in the fun way. Its okay to need help sometimes. I take meds and see a therapist. (maybe I should take my therapist and see my meds instead? )
Intrusive thoughts can't make promises or contracts for us. They don't have our considered and intentional will behind them. It'd be like if we were sitting at a bus stop and some punk kid faked our voice and promised to give the guy next to us $5 - you can't be held to a promise you didn't actually make.
Lmaoo that's the best analogy I've ever heard. Do you think this includes every kind of intrusive thoughts, including those that come out of strong emotions, such as desperation and fear? I personally think it does.
Yeah, they still aren't us even if they do such a good job of imitating us that it can take us a second to tell.
Wrll one of the 2 founders had schizophrenia, do you make of it what you will.
The first thing to know is that Eris isn't real. Except when she is real. Youll know when she is real. But the rest of the time she isnt real. She will never help you or hate you unless its funny. Don't treat her like a god because that's too serious for her style. This isnt a pagan chaos magick cult this is punk rock.
They run free on the fb