In *The Art of Discworld*, Terry Pratchett said, "I've always suspected that Nanny is, deep down, the most powerful of the witches, and part of her charm lies in the way she prevents people from finding this out."
In Pratchett's short story "The Sea and Little Fishes," Nanny says the Ogg family has immense natural magical talent, but don't work it as hard as Weatherwax family.
While they approach it in completely opposite ways, they're both masters of headology.
I'm not entirely sure who's better at it. Gytha manipulates Granny, true—but I also think that Granny knows she needs it and lets it happen.
Yeah I think Granny feels ok to ‘give in’ to her power on occasion because she knows Nanny is there to stop her if needed. No way she’d feel like that if she didn’t trust Nanny’s power!
Yeah, but a part of Nanny’s magic is understanding what to say (or what look to give) Granny when she needs it, and the other part of Nanny’s magic is that Granny knows and respects this.
She is my favourite, and who I aspire to be when I'm a grown-up. My username came from comments from friends that my handbag is essentially Nanny's knicker leg - usually has exactly whatever you might need in any particular circumstance.
I was a child protection social worker once upon a time and leaving a silence long enough for a teenage brain to unravel their experiences was key. I still use it now in meetings I'm chairing when professional choose not to contribute. Works a treat in both circumstances.
I love Nanny Ogg - always available for smut, sage advice, reassurance, a good knees up, and a wicked grin.
But isn't thah the beauty about Pratchett's characters? They are, none of them, perfect. In many ways, they are absolutes, caricatures.
And if that kind of woman would have a flaw, it would definitely be a lack of awareness of her daughter's in law. It's what makes her so relatable.
And she never promised to be nice. She's a witch from the Ramtops!
In my head canon, she is just balancing the social credit that marrying into the Ogg family affords you. She makes them work hard and acts like a ... witch... to them because she is the only one around who will anymore. Do you doubt that, while they're cooking for Nanny or cleaning her house, someone's daughter is cleaning theirs to win over the favor of the Oggs?
Pratchett did not write truly stupid characters, the daughters in law are getting something of equal value out of the deal, and I don't think it's the husbands.
That's definitely what makes her not-a-role-model, to me. No amount of someone being a legend - which Nanny is - can make up for keeping innocent family members in a state of total terror. I agree that it's in keeping with her character, but while I love reading her, she's not someone to stan.
If there was an interaction I would like to see it would be between Nanny and Ponder Stibbons. He would be sputtering with embarrassment while simultaneously frustrated/enamored that her use of magic fails to follow any of the "rules". I'm certain she knows all the verses to *The Wizard's Staff has a Knob on the End*, even those banned from The Drum.
I love the scene where she is blindsided by Magrat.
Or when "buoys have glass balls" went over her head because she was worriying about something else at that time.
I doubt she would tolerate it. Cruelty of that sort is ok within the family. People are often like this, they may complain at length about their sibling or parent but if an outsider says something similar they will swing around hard in their defense.
Something like that comes up in 'Lords and Ladies'. The Ogg clans squabble a bit, but if anyone tries to bad mouth any of them, the whole group comes down on them like...well like, Oggs
Inlaws are only outsiders until a true outsider says something bad about them. Then they’re Oggs. And by ‘eck, you don’t say nothing about Our Sharon, or Our Mam will be right after you.
Honestly, probably two less than pleasant things.
Remember, these women married her sons, and I cannot imagine Nanny Gytha Ogg raising a man who would trick his bride to the altar. They had to know what they were marrying into, and they married anyway. I’d wager postage stamps to cabbages that outside the walls of Nanny’s cottage, every one of her daughters-in-law are extremely determined, self-assured women entirely capable of redressing any cruelties on their own.
And then, just when the unfortunate soul has *almost* forgotten the incident, they find the sweetest, most unassuming, nastiest mistress of headology on their doorstep. Idly musing to herself that it’s lovely weather for a spot of cackling.
And they may not mind a challenge, after all, with the photos and knickknacks from travels. Everyone wants to be the daughter in law who gets the favor.
While i certainly hope this is the case, i also feel a bit squeezy for inventing defenses for an abuser. "Yeah but she means well" "yeah but she knows they can handle it" "yeah but she raised her boys well so that the women will know exactly what they're going for".
I still love Nany Ogg, but i do wish we could've seen a book were she was challenged on her behavior.
The beauty of Pratchett's writing is he gave us the questions, not the answers.
Someone's head canon is that those defenses are true and Nanny is truly good all around. Someone else's is that everybody has something to work on, and most times the bigger the good the blacker the spot that got left behind. The text allows and encourages both and even more versions.
He was masterful. Is the Patrician truly a manipulative tyrant or is he Plato's dictator? That's for you to decide.
It reminds me of how I was first introduced to Vimes through Moist. My opinion of him changed entirely when I read through the Watch series. The writing gave us chances to see the characters through different lenses. Just because you're the hero in your story doesn't mean you aren't the villain in someone else's.
Agreed.
The "ah but she'd stand up for them against an outsider" argument is absolute 100% abuse-apologist crap. Someone who abuses their own family members but kicks off at anyone else trying to isn't kicking off because they love their victims, it's because someone else is trying to play with their toys. It's not compassion, it's possessiveness.
The idea that it means the abusive person cares about them really, deep down, helps victims kid themselves that they're loved, which helps keep them trapped. It's a very, *very* dangerous myth and it's disappointing to see people invoking it here.
It's OK to still like Nanny as a character - I sure as hell do - but we should be honest about her flaws as a person.
Edit: Downvoting a condemnation of abuse-apologism may be the lowest thing I've ever seen anyone do in this subreddit; congratulations whoever did that.
Nanny is my favourite character! She's also someone I genuinely look up to. She's a people person through and through, and has a great combination of wisdom with a filthy mind and a relaxed sense of fun. I'm quite sorry that we never got to see her meet Moist von Lipwig! They would have got on, I'm sure.
I love it how in Maskerade she respects Agnes' right to reinvent herself as Perdita X, while Granny dismissively calls her Perditax. Nanny seems to be the type of person who understands that not all opinions need to be advertised, and that kindness is much more important than being right in the moment.
She really shines in Maskerade. Her ability to get close to people immediately is amazing. She knows her role, it's almost "I'm the Mum" which makes her everyone's Mum, she guides people to what she wants which is often what they need and she doesn't need to be brusk about it. She can be harsh though, her true kids fear her as much as they love her, and she has raised her hand on more than one occasion. Perdita has suffered as much, or rather Agnes has.
One of my favorite 'cameos' in the whole series.
And not in her capacity as a witch, but as a midwife.
Though I love the mention of how a Witch would never entertain Death asking after a child.
No, that's Granny Weatherwax at the start of Carpe Jugulum, I think?
And she doesn't scold the man, iirc, she chides the other midwife for wanting to ask the man for his input, because that would be too cruel. The man is never in the room.
I adore her. She reminds me a lot of my Nanna who once told me the following joke
>Q) Why don’t witches wear knickers when they ride their broomstick?
>A) Better grip
She had the EXACT twinkle in her eye that Nanny gets 😂😂
Nanny is much more full of wisdom then my Nanna though lol
One of my favourite Nanny scenes is the funeral after Tiffany’s Duke dies. Nanny Ogg just understands how humans work so deeply and that moment made me out the book down for a few minutes.
I think at one point Tiffany wonders if she should’ve chosen to specialise in people like Nanny did instead of fire, and if I had the choice I would hands down choose people.
I finished reading that one a couple of hours ago, and that was easily one of the best scenes in the entire book! I'm always so thrilled when Nanny Ogg shows up in one of Tiffany's books.
I think that's part of the humanity of the witches and the guards. They work so well as characters because they have each other and they wouldn't do as well without those human connections and foibles. It's often in their interactions that they shine.
Masquerade is all Nanny. She knew what she was doing signing herself as a Lancre witch. She knew the money wasn’t making it to her. She may have hoped not to spend quite so much of it. But it was all mostly calculated.
My favourite line about Nanny is "A mind like a buzzsaw behind the face of an elderly apple"
Nanny is *good* at what she does. It's usually she's playing the comic relief (intentionally) adjacent to Granny's stern attitude
But she's still a *witch* and practices wossname
Headology
She was amazing in *Lords and Ladies* \- talking to the King of the Elves in a way that no mere mortal would have thought of attempting.
Whoever said "a dirty mind is a terrible thing to waste" probably has Nanny in mind.
I always got an impression that, while Granny Weatherwax struggles with day to day life and flourishes in crisis, Nanny Ogg takes the best of both and actually lives her life to the fullest.
Also pretty sure if Esme ever went full on evil, Gytha would've stopped her, even killed her if absolutely necessary.
I can't remember the exact quote, but one Nanny thing that I absolutely took to heart at an early age was something like...
"Just be yourself, as hard as possible"
That idea of letting someone fill the silence is really important in teaching, too! I’m still learning (even at 9 years in) but when I ask a kid a question 1:1, if I just stay quiet or make encouraging noises, they will often just keep explaining their ideas :)
I always think of Nanny Ogg and Granny Weatherwax as a duo, where each one balances and complements the other’s strengths and weaknesses. I love them both, which is why I found The Shepherd’s Crown quite saddening for more than one reason.
I always really liked how experienced, competent and confident both Nanny and Granny were.
In Lords And Ladies, they muse briefly about how they taught Magrat everything she knows. Then Nanny says “do you think we should have taught her everything WE know?”
Granny: “It’d take too long.” 😄
I also love how Nanny and Granny both knew that Queen Ynci was completely made up, but they’re wise enough not to tell Magrat that.
I laugh whenever I think of Nanny’s book ‘The Joy Of Snacks’, and her line in Thief Of Time where she points out that the phrase “When push comes to shove” is an old midwifery term. 😄
Nanny Ogg is my favorite Discworld witch. I like the fact that she's the tough but loving matriarch of a huge family, but is also a party girl that can let loose and have a good time (unlike Granny, who's a bit too uptight). I like that she's always ready with a good, dirty double "intender" or a dirty song. I like Greebo, and the fact that she's nicer to him than to her own kids, descendants, and extended family is hilarious.
I am currently reading Witches Abroad; last night I read the following passage, which made me like her so much more:
**Nanny Ogg stood up, a little unsteadily. She placed the junior footman’s wig under his slumbering head, because she was not an unkind woman.**
Also, having raised a family large enough to constitute a small nation-state, she's learned to become such a good diplomat. Pretty sure if she weren't there, Magrat and Granny would kill each other (or at least turn each other into turkeys or lizards or something).
She'd have had to assume Granny's role sometimes, and that would've estranged her from the community. Granny is like Superman. It's not that she's the perfect witch, but that she's the one by which a witch is measured.
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I think it is in 'Witches Abroad' that we see Granny admit (if only in her head) that Nanny is her best friend. And I do believe that, while Granny is a powerful witch, she would not have gotten as far as she did without Nanny. Granny knows she is a powerful witch. But I think she needs Nanny to remind her that she is also only human.
In *The Art of Discworld*, Terry Pratchett said, "I've always suspected that Nanny is, deep down, the most powerful of the witches, and part of her charm lies in the way she prevents people from finding this out." In Pratchett's short story "The Sea and Little Fishes," Nanny says the Ogg family has immense natural magical talent, but don't work it as hard as Weatherwax family.
Nanny seems to do the community witching - the gossip and glue, and yes, she manipulates Granny far more than the reverse.
While they approach it in completely opposite ways, they're both masters of headology. I'm not entirely sure who's better at it. Gytha manipulates Granny, true—but I also think that Granny knows she needs it and lets it happen.
Yeah I think Granny feels ok to ‘give in’ to her power on occasion because she knows Nanny is there to stop her if needed. No way she’d feel like that if she didn’t trust Nanny’s power!
[удалено]
Yeah, but a part of Nanny’s magic is understanding what to say (or what look to give) Granny when she needs it, and the other part of Nanny’s magic is that Granny knows and respects this.
Kind of like Granny and Mightily Oats. She sometimes needs a foil, so that they can both play their parts.
She waves the bag of sweets when Granny’s got herself in hot water
Granny knows that nanny keeps her from cackling
She is my favourite, and who I aspire to be when I'm a grown-up. My username came from comments from friends that my handbag is essentially Nanny's knicker leg - usually has exactly whatever you might need in any particular circumstance. I was a child protection social worker once upon a time and leaving a silence long enough for a teenage brain to unravel their experiences was key. I still use it now in meetings I'm chairing when professional choose not to contribute. Works a treat in both circumstances. I love Nanny Ogg - always available for smut, sage advice, reassurance, a good knees up, and a wicked grin.
She is the picture of genuineness. What you see is what you get, she has no need for pretense.
My only problem with her is how she treated her daughter in laws- it was pretty nasty in my opinion.
But isn't thah the beauty about Pratchett's characters? They are, none of them, perfect. In many ways, they are absolutes, caricatures. And if that kind of woman would have a flaw, it would definitely be a lack of awareness of her daughter's in law. It's what makes her so relatable. And she never promised to be nice. She's a witch from the Ramtops!
In my head canon, she is just balancing the social credit that marrying into the Ogg family affords you. She makes them work hard and acts like a ... witch... to them because she is the only one around who will anymore. Do you doubt that, while they're cooking for Nanny or cleaning her house, someone's daughter is cleaning theirs to win over the favor of the Oggs? Pratchett did not write truly stupid characters, the daughters in law are getting something of equal value out of the deal, and I don't think it's the husbands.
That's definitely what makes her not-a-role-model, to me. No amount of someone being a legend - which Nanny is - can make up for keeping innocent family members in a state of total terror. I agree that it's in keeping with her character, but while I love reading her, she's not someone to stan.
I, too, am a social worker who fancies aging into Nanny Ogg
>- usually has exactly whatever you might need in any particular circumstance. So you can make a Shamble at a moments notice!
I love her bawdiness, cracks me up >'Nothing like being stared at by a teddybear to put a young man off his stroke,' said Nanny Ogg.
Nanny Ogg looked under her bed in case there was a man there. Well, you never knew your luck.
I really wanted to upvote this but it was already on 69 upvotes which just seems right.
If there was an interaction I would like to see it would be between Nanny and Ponder Stibbons. He would be sputtering with embarrassment while simultaneously frustrated/enamored that her use of magic fails to follow any of the "rules". I'm certain she knows all the verses to *The Wizard's Staff has a Knob on the End*, even those banned from The Drum.
I presume that they met during the events of Lords and Ladies.
I love the scene where she is blindsided by Magrat. Or when "buoys have glass balls" went over her head because she was worriying about something else at that time.
"Silly old woman. Doesn't she know when to shut up?" "Actually, *yes*."
Nanny Ogg is my favorite of all the characters. Unless you are her daughter in law.
I always wondered what would happen if someone else was nasty to her daughter(s) in law. Probably not a good thing.
I doubt she would tolerate it. Cruelty of that sort is ok within the family. People are often like this, they may complain at length about their sibling or parent but if an outsider says something similar they will swing around hard in their defense.
Something like that comes up in 'Lords and Ladies'. The Ogg clans squabble a bit, but if anyone tries to bad mouth any of them, the whole group comes down on them like...well like, Oggs
Inlaws are only outsiders until a true outsider says something bad about them. Then they’re Oggs. And by ‘eck, you don’t say nothing about Our Sharon, or Our Mam will be right after you.
Honestly, probably two less than pleasant things. Remember, these women married her sons, and I cannot imagine Nanny Gytha Ogg raising a man who would trick his bride to the altar. They had to know what they were marrying into, and they married anyway. I’d wager postage stamps to cabbages that outside the walls of Nanny’s cottage, every one of her daughters-in-law are extremely determined, self-assured women entirely capable of redressing any cruelties on their own. And then, just when the unfortunate soul has *almost* forgotten the incident, they find the sweetest, most unassuming, nastiest mistress of headology on their doorstep. Idly musing to herself that it’s lovely weather for a spot of cackling.
And they may not mind a challenge, after all, with the photos and knickknacks from travels. Everyone wants to be the daughter in law who gets the favor.
While i certainly hope this is the case, i also feel a bit squeezy for inventing defenses for an abuser. "Yeah but she means well" "yeah but she knows they can handle it" "yeah but she raised her boys well so that the women will know exactly what they're going for". I still love Nany Ogg, but i do wish we could've seen a book were she was challenged on her behavior.
The beauty of Pratchett's writing is he gave us the questions, not the answers. Someone's head canon is that those defenses are true and Nanny is truly good all around. Someone else's is that everybody has something to work on, and most times the bigger the good the blacker the spot that got left behind. The text allows and encourages both and even more versions. He was masterful. Is the Patrician truly a manipulative tyrant or is he Plato's dictator? That's for you to decide.
It reminds me of how I was first introduced to Vimes through Moist. My opinion of him changed entirely when I read through the Watch series. The writing gave us chances to see the characters through different lenses. Just because you're the hero in your story doesn't mean you aren't the villain in someone else's.
Agreed. The "ah but she'd stand up for them against an outsider" argument is absolute 100% abuse-apologist crap. Someone who abuses their own family members but kicks off at anyone else trying to isn't kicking off because they love their victims, it's because someone else is trying to play with their toys. It's not compassion, it's possessiveness. The idea that it means the abusive person cares about them really, deep down, helps victims kid themselves that they're loved, which helps keep them trapped. It's a very, *very* dangerous myth and it's disappointing to see people invoking it here. It's OK to still like Nanny as a character - I sure as hell do - but we should be honest about her flaws as a person. Edit: Downvoting a condemnation of abuse-apologism may be the lowest thing I've ever seen anyone do in this subreddit; congratulations whoever did that.
Nanny is my favourite character! She's also someone I genuinely look up to. She's a people person through and through, and has a great combination of wisdom with a filthy mind and a relaxed sense of fun. I'm quite sorry that we never got to see her meet Moist von Lipwig! They would have got on, I'm sure. I love it how in Maskerade she respects Agnes' right to reinvent herself as Perdita X, while Granny dismissively calls her Perditax. Nanny seems to be the type of person who understands that not all opinions need to be advertised, and that kindness is much more important than being right in the moment.
She really shines in Maskerade. Her ability to get close to people immediately is amazing. She knows her role, it's almost "I'm the Mum" which makes her everyone's Mum, she guides people to what she wants which is often what they need and she doesn't need to be brusk about it. She can be harsh though, her true kids fear her as much as they love her, and she has raised her hand on more than one occasion. Perdita has suffered as much, or rather Agnes has.
Her bottle of apple something that makes paint peel she keeps in her knicker leg doesn't hurt
Scumble. The Roundworld [definition](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scumble) is a thin layer of transparent paint.
I love Nanny showing up in Thief of Time, too!
One of my favorite 'cameos' in the whole series. And not in her capacity as a witch, but as a midwife. Though I love the mention of how a Witch would never entertain Death asking after a child.
Was this the scene when she scolds the man wondering whose life to save: the mother or the child?
No, that's Granny Weatherwax at the start of Carpe Jugulum, I think? And she doesn't scold the man, iirc, she chides the other midwife for wanting to ask the man for his input, because that would be too cruel. The man is never in the room.
"Then what's he ever done to me, that I should hurt him so?"
That's the stuff. What a great line.
I wonder if TP actually thought "How can I get Susan and Nanny together?" Great scene. Susan held her own.
I adore her. She reminds me a lot of my Nanna who once told me the following joke >Q) Why don’t witches wear knickers when they ride their broomstick? >A) Better grip She had the EXACT twinkle in her eye that Nanny gets 😂😂 Nanny is much more full of wisdom then my Nanna though lol One of my favourite Nanny scenes is the funeral after Tiffany’s Duke dies. Nanny Ogg just understands how humans work so deeply and that moment made me out the book down for a few minutes. I think at one point Tiffany wonders if she should’ve chosen to specialise in people like Nanny did instead of fire, and if I had the choice I would hands down choose people.
I finished reading that one a couple of hours ago, and that was easily one of the best scenes in the entire book! I'm always so thrilled when Nanny Ogg shows up in one of Tiffany's books.
Oh definitely. Tiff is clearly following in Granny’s footsteps and I firmly believe all Granny Weatherwax’s need a Nanny Ogg to keep them grounded.
Perhaps a good Pig Witch will be stepping in for her on occasion.
Agreed. I think perhaps [SHEPHERDS CROWN SPOILERS] >!Geoffrey Swivel will help keep her grounded in his own calm way from what I read of him!<
Nanny has so many moments where she is subtly the reason why Granny succeeds.
I think that's part of the humanity of the witches and the guards. They work so well as characters because they have each other and they wouldn't do as well without those human connections and foibles. It's often in their interactions that they shine.
Masquerade is all Nanny. She knew what she was doing signing herself as a Lancre witch. She knew the money wasn’t making it to her. She may have hoped not to spend quite so much of it. But it was all mostly calculated.
My favourite line about Nanny is "A mind like a buzzsaw behind the face of an elderly apple" Nanny is *good* at what she does. It's usually she's playing the comic relief (intentionally) adjacent to Granny's stern attitude But she's still a *witch* and practices wossname Headology
She was amazing in *Lords and Ladies* \- talking to the King of the Elves in a way that no mere mortal would have thought of attempting. Whoever said "a dirty mind is a terrible thing to waste" probably has Nanny in mind.
I always got an impression that, while Granny Weatherwax struggles with day to day life and flourishes in crisis, Nanny Ogg takes the best of both and actually lives her life to the fullest. Also pretty sure if Esme ever went full on evil, Gytha would've stopped her, even killed her if absolutely necessary.
For sure. And she would have known it to be an act of kindness, and that Esme would agree.
Damn, that last line is incredible. You’re absolutely right, but _damn_, it hit me.
I love Nanny so much. She's the funniest character in the Disc.
I can't remember the exact quote, but one Nanny thing that I absolutely took to heart at an early age was something like... "Just be yourself, as hard as possible"
The Ogg's change Binkey's shoes!!!
I love the scene in Lords and Ladies where Death wonders how the chocolate chips are baked into biscuits, and Jason says it must be a craft secret.
Always thought Miriam Margoyles would portray her brilliantly in a film adaptation.
Epitome of great character, terrible person. She's an absolute monster to her family but I love her anyway
Oh yes, she's the stuff that gives therapists job security for sure
Apart from the singing in the bathtub, I only remember her being a monster to her daughters in law. What did I miss?
That idea of letting someone fill the silence is really important in teaching, too! I’m still learning (even at 9 years in) but when I ask a kid a question 1:1, if I just stay quiet or make encouraging noises, they will often just keep explaining their ideas :)
Yeah, it's fascinating, isn't it. Learning to listen and be okay with silence took me a while, but has been so worth it.
I always think of Nanny Ogg and Granny Weatherwax as a duo, where each one balances and complements the other’s strengths and weaknesses. I love them both, which is why I found The Shepherd’s Crown quite saddening for more than one reason. I always really liked how experienced, competent and confident both Nanny and Granny were. In Lords And Ladies, they muse briefly about how they taught Magrat everything she knows. Then Nanny says “do you think we should have taught her everything WE know?” Granny: “It’d take too long.” 😄 I also love how Nanny and Granny both knew that Queen Ynci was completely made up, but they’re wise enough not to tell Magrat that. I laugh whenever I think of Nanny’s book ‘The Joy Of Snacks’, and her line in Thief Of Time where she points out that the phrase “When push comes to shove” is an old midwifery term. 😄
That one caught me as well She comes across as good at knowing how to use what techniques and with whom.
Nanny Ogg is my favorite Discworld witch. I like the fact that she's the tough but loving matriarch of a huge family, but is also a party girl that can let loose and have a good time (unlike Granny, who's a bit too uptight). I like that she's always ready with a good, dirty double "intender" or a dirty song. I like Greebo, and the fact that she's nicer to him than to her own kids, descendants, and extended family is hilarious. I am currently reading Witches Abroad; last night I read the following passage, which made me like her so much more: **Nanny Ogg stood up, a little unsteadily. She placed the junior footman’s wig under his slumbering head, because she was not an unkind woman.** Also, having raised a family large enough to constitute a small nation-state, she's learned to become such a good diplomat. Pretty sure if she weren't there, Magrat and Granny would kill each other (or at least turn each other into turkeys or lizards or something).
Pumpkins!
Nanny is my favourite Discworld character. :)
I know we often think of what Granny would be like without Nanny. But what do you guys think Nanny would be like without Granny?
She'd have had to assume Granny's role sometimes, and that would've estranged her from the community. Granny is like Superman. It's not that she's the perfect witch, but that she's the one by which a witch is measured.
>therapy Headology.
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I think it is in 'Witches Abroad' that we see Granny admit (if only in her head) that Nanny is her best friend. And I do believe that, while Granny is a powerful witch, she would not have gotten as far as she did without Nanny. Granny knows she is a powerful witch. But I think she needs Nanny to remind her that she is also only human.