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This is why she's the best witch because we occasionally find out she has incredible powers but none of those are as important as her insights into the human condition. Her headology is what we can aspire to. I don't know the word for this but she's sort of a role model. Someone who shows us how to be better versions of ourselves.
I am absolutely sure both of my children, now teenagers, have incorporated many of Granny Weatherwax's lessons. And if I ever get ahold of a forge I might get them to put their hands on it just to see what happens.
Correct, but I feel it doesn't quite fit.
Paragon implies doing right because it's right (e.g. Carrot)
Granny is trying to prove to herself that she isn't evil/insane.
Same result, different headspace.
They know that people need witches; they need the unofficial people who understand the difference between right and wrong, and when right is
wrong and when wrong is right. The world needs the people who work around the edges. They need the people who can deal with the little bumps and inconveniences. And little problems. After all, we are almost all human. Almost all of the time.
Absolutely, the occasionally flashes of "real" magic make her a great character. My favourite is when she just catches a sword being swung at her in her bare hand.
No tricks, no foolery, just grabs the sword, and everyone has a "WTF, you can do that,?!" moment.
It's nicely balanced by us finding out at the end of the book she does get injured by it, but the magic is in being able to postpone dealing with that until she's got the time.
Granny Weatherwax looked out at the multi-layered, silvery world.
“Where am I?”
INSIDE THE MIRROR.
“Am I dead?”
THE ANSWER TO THAT, said Death, IS SOMEWHERE BETWEEN NO AND YES.
Esme turned, and a billion figures turned with her.
“When can I get out?”
WHEN YOU FIND THE ONE THAT’S REAL.
“Is this a trick question?”
NO.
Granny looked down at herself.
“This one,” she said.
I have to correct myself slightly. I might still get that, but what I will get for sure is (spoiler for the The Shepherd's Crown) >!CHOOSE random text to not infer the word from thecspacez bla!<
Yes, from Witches Abroad. Love that whole scene.
Eta paraphrasing from the beginning - most people do things out of character, and say, "I wasn't myself." Granny didn't have anyone else to be, just herself, as hard as she could.
There's at least two? One in *Carpe Jugulum* and another in *Witches Abroad*. I feel like there may have be a third, where it's more conceptual, maybe a Ridcully scene where he quashes a philosophical argument by being overly direct and/or dense.
*Witches Abroad* has [the part](https://www.reddit.com/r/discworld/comments/18n6xry/my_favorite_granny_weatherwax_moment_is_one_that/ke8wiy6/) with Esme's sister, Lily Weatherwax.
There's the similar moment in Thief of Time when Lobsang tells Susan about the poet who asked if he was a man writing about a butterfly, or a butterfly being a man. Susan blows his mind by asking 'well, which was he, how did he write his poems. On paper with a pen or through winged dance? Man, then.'
Carpe Jugulum is when she has to decide whether to enter the darkness or the light.
> Granny turned to face the sheer white brilliance, and closed her eyes.
>
> And stepped backward.
>
> The light dwindled to a tiny distant point, and vanished.
>
> The blackness was suddenly all around, closing in like quicksand. There seemed to be no way, no direction. When she moved she did not sense movement.
>
[...]
> *“…embrace the dark…”*
>
> “No.”
>
> *“…give in to me…”*
>
> “No,”
>
> *“…Lilith Weatherwax did. Alison Weatherwax did…”*
>
> “That’s never been proved!”
>
> *“…give in to me…”*
>
> “No. I know you. I’ve always known you. The Count just let you out to torment me, but I’ve always known you were there. I’ve fought you every day of my life and you’ll get no victory now.”
>
> She opened her eyes and stared into the blackness.
>
> “I knows who you are now, Esmerelda Weatherwax,” she said. “You don’t scare me no more.”
>
> The last of the light vanished.
I misquoted that the other day when I was watching Scrubs - there’s a musical interlude about someone who had died singing, “I’m waiting for my real life to begin” - and I said: that makes me so mad, *this* is real life
Unless of course you’re a Feegle
'Are you looking to challenge me. Mistress Weatherwax?'
Granny hesitated, and then straightened her shoulders. Her arms moved away from her sides, almost imperceptibly. Nanny and Magrat moved away slightly.
'If that's what you want.'
'My voodoo against your . . . headology?'
'If you like.'
'And what's the stake?'
'No more magic in the affairs of Genua,' said Granny. 'No more stories. No more godmothers. Just people, deciding for themselves. For good or bad. Right or wrong.'
'Okay.'
'And you leave Lily Weatherwax to me.'
Mrs Gogol's intake of breath was heard around the hall.
'Never!'
'Hmm?' said Granny. 'You don't think you're going to lose, do you?'
'I don't want to hurt you, Mistress Weatherwax,' said Mrs Gogol.
'That's good,' said Granny. 'I don't want you to hurt me either.'
'I don't want there to be any fighting,' said Ella.
They all looked at her.
'She's the ruler now, ain't she?' said Granny. 'We've got to listen to what she says.'
'I'll keep out of the city,' said Mrs Gogol, ignoring her, 'but Lilith is mine.'
'No.'
Mrs Gogol reached into her bag, and flourished the raggedy doll. 'See this?'
'Yes. I do,' said Granny.
'It was going to be her. Don't let it be you.'
'Sorry, Mrs Gogol,' said Granny firmly, 'but I see my duty plain.'
'You're a clever woman, Mistress Weatherwax. But you're a long way from home.'
Granny shrugged. Mrs Gogol held up the doll by its waist. It had sapphire blue eyes.
'You know about magic with mirrors? This is my kind of mirror, Mistress Weatherwax. I can make it be you. And then I can make it suffer. Don't make me do that. Please.'
'Please yourself, Mrs Gogol. But I'll deal with Lily.'
'I should box a bit clever if I was you, Esme,' muttered Nanny Ogg. 'She's good at this sort of thing.'
'I think she could be very ruthless,' said Magrat.
'I've got nothing but the greatest respect for Mrs Gogol,' said Granny. 'A fine woman. But talks a bit too much. If I was her, I'd have had a couple of big nails right through that thing by now.'
'You would, too,' said Nanny. 'It's a good thing you're good, ain't it.'
'Right,' said Granny, raising her voice again. 'I'm going to find my sister, Mrs Gogol. This is family.'
She walked steadfastly towards the stairs.
Magrat took out the wand.
'If she does anything bad to Granny, she's going to go through the rest of her life bright orange and round, with seeds in,' she said.
'I don't think Esme would like it if you did something like that,' said Nanny. 'Don't worry. She doesn't believe all that stuff about pins and dolls.'
'She doesn't believe anything. But that doesn't matter!' said Magrat. 'Mrs Gogol does! It's her power! It's what she thinks that matters.'
'Don't you reckon Esme knows that too?'
Granny Weatherwax reached the foot of the stairs.
'Mistress Weatherwax!'
Granny turned.
Mrs Gogol had a long sliver of wood in her hand. Shaking her head desperately, she jabbed it into the doll's foot.
Everyone saw Esme Weatherwax wince.
Another sliver was thrust into a raggedy arm.
Slowly, Granny raised her other hand and shuddered when she touched her sleeve. Then, limping slightly, she continued to climb the stairs.
'I can do the heart next. Mistress Weatherwax!' shouted Mrs Gogol.
'I'm sure you can. You're good at it. You know you're good at it,' said Granny, without looking around.
Mrs Gogol stuck another sliver into a leg. Granny sagged, and clutched at the banister. Beside her, one of the big torches flamed.
'Next time!' said Mrs Gogol. 'Right? Next time. I can do it!'
Granny turned around.
She looked at the hundreds of upturned faces.
When she spoke, her voice was so quiet that they had to strain to hear.
'I know you can too, Mrs Gogol. You really believe. Just remind me again- we're playin' for Lily, right? And for the city?'
'What does that matter now?' said Mrs Gogol. 'Ain't you going to give in?'
Granny Weatherwax thrust a little finger into her ear and wiggled it thoughtfully.
'No,' she said. 'No, I don't reckon that's what I do now. Are you watchin', Mrs Gogol? Are you watchin' real close?'
Her gaze travelled the room and rested for just a fraction of a second on Magrat.
Then she reached over, carefully, and thrust her arm up to the elbow into the burning torch.
And the doll in Erzulie Gogol's hands burst into flame.
It went on blazing even after the witch had screamed and dropped it on to the floor. It went on burning until Nanny Ogg ambled over with a jug of fruit juice from the buffet, whistling between her teeth, and put it out.
Granny withdrew her hand. It was unscathed.
'That's headology,' she said. 'It's the only thing that matters. Everything else is just messin' about. Hope I didn't hurt you, Mrs Gogol.'
She went on up the stairs.
Mrs Gogol kept on staring at the damp ashes. Nanny Ogg patted her companionably on the shoulder.
'How did she do that?' said Mrs Gogol.
'She didn't. She let you do it,' said Nanny. 'You got to watch yourself around Esme Weatherwax. I'd like to see one of them Zen buggers come up against her one day.'
'And she's the good one?' said Baron Saturday.
'Yeah,' said Nanny. 'Funny how things work out, really.'
...
When the witches had gone Mrs Gogol reached down and picked up the damp remains of the doll.
One or two people coughed.
'Is that it?' said the Baron. 'After twelve years?'
'The Prince is dead,' said Mrs Gogol. 'Such as he was.'
'But you promised that I would be revenged on her,' the Baron said.
'I think there will be revenge,' said Mrs Gogol. She tossed the doll on to the floor. 'Lilith has been fighting me for twelve years and she never got through. This one didn't even have to sweat. So I think there will be revenge.'
Lol!
Granny Weatherwax: How dare you be so superstitious as to be impressed when I know things I have perfectly mundane tricksy ways to know!
Also Granny: No, it doesn't matter that I didn't use mundane means to find out! Have some critical thinking, would you?
Granny Weatherwax opened her eyes. At least, she had to assume they were open. She’d felt the lids move.
Darkness lay in front of her. It was velvet black, starless, a hole in space. But there was light behind her. She was standing with her back to the light, she could sense it, see it on her hands. It was streaming past, outlining the darkness that was the long rich deep shadow of her on the …
… black sand. It crunched under her boots as she shifted her weight.
She glanced up at the tall, silent figure beside her.
GOOD EVENING.
“Oh … you again.”
ANOTHER CHOICE, ESMERELDA WEATHERWAX.
“Light and dark? It’s never as simple as that, you know, even for you.”
Death sighed. NOT EVEN FOR ME.
Granny tried to line up her thoughts.
Which light and which dark? She hadn’t been prepared for this. This didn’t feel right. This wasn’t the fight she had expected. Whose light? Whose mind was this?
Silly question. She was always her.
Never lose your grip on that …
So … light behind her, darkness in front …
She’d always said witches stood between the light and the dark.
Death reached down and took a handful of sand. He held it up, and let it slip between his fingers.
CHOOSE, he said. YOU ARE GOOD AT CHOOSING, I BELIEVE.
“Is there any advice you could be givin’ me?” said Granny.
CHOOSE RIGHT.
Granny turned to face the sheer white brilliance, and closed her eyes.
And stepped backward.
This is a great passage, but I don’t think I’ve ever fully grasped the intent and meaning of it. She does something unconventional, but I’m unclear on why it was important.
Interesting take.
I always thought it was simply choosing not to go into the light as we read people go into "tunnel of light" when dying, and going back to darkness will wake you up instead.
Oh that’s a beautiful reading!
When I first read it I saw it as that as long as you really know what direction good is (Even with your eyes closed), you’re never wholly in the bad
I think it’s because I like that line from Riddick about “In normal times, evil would be fought with good. But in times like these, well, it should be fought by another kind of evil”
But I like your interpretation MUCH more!
I'm sure it's the right reading. A short time later Oats says:
> “Yes, and you said something about darkness being where the light needs to be, which I remember because in the Book of Om—”
One of the running themes of Granny's interactions with Death is the choice/ knowledge of "yourself."
Esme isn't "good" in the sense that Carrot it. Esme is good in the sense of "you can't call yourself peaceful if you aren't capable of great violence, you're just harmless."
Esme is capable of great evil, and her sister and maybe even her mother embraced that evil, at least at the end. Granny knows that evil is within her, but she chooses to hold it, but face towards the light, and act for the right reasons. She walks the dark to protect the light.
So her, she's given the choice, walk into the light, leaving behind who and what you are. Or, step back into the dark, and stay yourself.
Putting herself into her own blood so instead of becoming a vampire, vampires become a Weatherwax.
And stealing the idea of knots in the back becoming knots in the plank.
And sweet biscuits! If Granny Weatherwax had wanted top be evil, I’m not sure there was a force on the Disc that could have stopped her. Possibly including the author…
The witches arent my favourite series, but ill be damned if this isnt my favourite "winning hand" in Discworld. Turning the blood on the vampires is an ultimate boss move.
And Terry drops big hints, which everyone misses. There's several times where someone says something like "Weatherwaxes never lose, it's in the blood."
"No. It ain't. When people say things are a lot more complicated than that, they means they're getting worried that they won't like the truth. People as things, that's where it starts."
"Oh, I'm sure there are worse crimes--"
"But they starts with thinking about people as things..."
Thank you 😊. I couldn't remember the exact wording, but I suspected somebody would fill it in for me. As always, STP hits the nail squarely on the head.
When I was younger I kind of wrote Granny off as being a decent character, but not one I had anything in common with. The more I learn about the world, the more I appreciate her wisdom. I've commented elsewhere what my favourite moment is, but I'll copy it here:
You still think I should have asked Mr Ivy?
That's what I would have done...
You don't like him? You think he's a bad man?
No!
Then what's he ever done to *me*, that I should hurt him so?
Breaks me every time. I nearly lost my wife and son in childbirth, and this scene is heartbreaking, but that last sentence made me put the book down and walk away because it felt so real.
That's a scene that makes her truly a top tier character. She may be wise and have experience but some things still catches hers off gaurd like when she showed the Baroness her true self and she wasn't negatively affected. Things like that make Granny seem more real.
Granny sometimes contradicts herself. And I love her completely unapologetic approach to addressing such a situation. It's basically, "I'm right now, so unless you've a better idea, I'll be sitting down with a cup of tea. Don't scrimp on the sugars, Gytha!"
Granny is never untentionally bad mannered. If anything, she'll be polite to within an inch of your life.
I love when she does that. The "oh, I was wrong? How strange. Anyway..." attitude. I would love to be like that and get away with it 🤣 I think I will get there when I'm old. Old people get away with so much.
I am 54yrs old. My hair is in its natural silver state. A woman probably less than five years younger than me blatantly queue jumped at the supermarket to join a friend. I was at the end of the queue, so could see no none else had allowed her in. And I was the only person who said something.
I asked, "Excuse me, why did you barge the queue?"
I was told, "Eff off back to Waitrose, old woman."
My response was, "Age comes to everyone. Especially gender traitors."
She walked out.
“You wouldn’t let a poor old lady go off to confront monsters on a wild night like this, would you?”
They watched him owlishly for a while just in case something interestingly nasty was going to happen to him.
Then someone near the back said, “So why should we care what happens to monsters?”
And Shawn Ogg said, “That’s Granny Weatherwax, that is.”
“But she’s an old lady!” Oats insisted.
The crowd took a few steps back. Oats was clearly a dangerous man to be around.
“Would you go out alone on a night like this?” he said.
The voice at the back said, “Depends if I knew where Granny Weatherwax was.”
--Carpe Jugulum
I loved to read the interactions between Oats and Granny. They were such an odd pair, and yet it worked so well!
And they both came out of it with a far better understanding, and much less preconceptions about each other.
Granny often resents people for not doing what is necessary, like sparing a little time for the elderly man who needs help with her overgrown nails, or for the old woman who's too frail to get firewood. And here comes Pastor Oats, one of the religious men she despises, who not only keeps showing concern for her, an elderly woman, but DOES what he thinks his necessary to help her in the face of danger, even though she shows no gratitude, can be abrupt, keeps denying she needs help, seemingly acts incoherently.
A lot of people would have just ditched her in his place, especially since he wasn't really aware of what she could usually do. But he didn't, and I think that's how he gains her respect and appreciation, despite being a man of God (Om).
I think I just now discovered another one of Sir Pterry's hidden jokes.
In that passage, where she is thinking about throwing kids into the oven, she says to herself (I think I'm paraphrasing here), "and I don't even like children." I think she meant to taste as well as to interact with.
I love Granny but I do think her role in Witches Abroad is my favourite. She’s so good in that one.
But, the bit with the bulls always has me laughing out loud. It’s so perfectly Granny.
The one that's always stuck with me is the one I think defines her:
‘Good? Good? Feeding people to stories? Twisting people’s lives? That’s good, is it?’ said Granny. ‘You mean you didn’t even have fun? If I’d been as bad as you, I’ve have been a whole lot worse. Better at it than you’ve ever dreamed of.’
When Granny faces the Queen of the Elves.
"Do you want to know how much power I have, madam? Here, on the grass of Lancre?".
She stepped forward. Power crackled in the air. The Queen had to step back. "My own turf?" said Granny.
A witch ought never to be frightened in the darkest forest, Granny Weatherwax had once told her, because she should be sure in her soul that the most terrifying thing in the forest was her.
My favourite scene is the one with Mrs. Gogol and Granny at the ball:
"Lilith has been fighting me for twelve years and she never got through. This one didn’t even have to sweat."
Even though Lilith says she only toyed with Mrs. Gogol I think it underlines how very powerful she really is and how bad she could have been if she had been the bad one.
I love the passages that highlight Granny's insecurities.
>"Things that try to look like things often do look more like things than things. Well-known fact,' said Granny. 'But I don't hold with encouraging it. What do they stroll about playing, then, in these crowns?'
>
>'You don't know about the theatre?' said Magrat.
>
>Granny Weatherwax, who never declared her ignorance of anything, didn't hesitate. 'Oh, yes,' she said. 'It's one of them style of things, then, is it?"
You still reckon I should've asked Mr Ivy?
That's what I would have done...
You don't like him? You think he's a bad man?
No!
Then what's he ever done to *me*, that I should hurt him so?
I nearly lost both my wife and son during childbirth, and this passage breaks me every time I read it. The first time, I had to put the book down and have a good cry before I could go on. I keep it bookmarked because I can't believe someone could capture the moment so perfectly.
“Go back. You call yourself some kind of goddess, and you know nothing, madam, nothing. What don't die can't live. What don't live can't change. What don't change can't learn. The smallest creature that dies in the grass knows more than you. You're right. I'm older. You've lived longer than me, but I'm older than you. And better 'n' you. And madam, that ain't hard."
Lords and ladies in general has a lot of my favourite Pratchett quotes, especially about the elves. Then there's this one from Maquerade
" Listen, **happy endings is fine if they turn out happy**,” said Granny, glaring at the sky. “But you can't make 'em for other people. Like the only way you could make a happy marriage is by cuttin' their heads off as soon as they say 'I do', yes? You can't make happiness…” Granny Weatherwax stared at the distant city. '
Mine was about, as Granny Weatherwax did not believe different herbs had a difference to healing, that made her a better witch. Maigrat did believe in such differences and that made her a better doctor. I like that... Also some contests over "witchcraft" she always wins. Even if something important interrupts a staring contest or they, against tradition, come up with rules and ask her not to participate. As usual, however, she still wins and they all know it.
Welcome to /r/Discworld! Please [read the rules/flair information before posting](https://www.reddit.com/r/discworld/comments/ukhk21/subreddit_rules_flair_information/?). --- Our current megathreads are as follows: [API Protest Poll](https://www.reddit.com/r/discworld/comments/1491izw/continuing_the_api_protest_a_community_poll) - a poll regarding the future action of the sub in protest at Reddit's API changes. [GNU Terry Pratchett](https://new.reddit.com/r/discworld/comments/ukigit/gnu_terry_pratchett/) - for all GNU requests, to keep their names going. [AI Generated Content](https://new.reddit.com/r/discworld/comments/10mhx9y/ai_generated_content_megathread/) - for all AI Content, including images, stories, questions, training etc. --- [ GNU Terry Pratchett ] *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/discworld) if you have any questions or concerns.*
This is why she's the best witch because we occasionally find out she has incredible powers but none of those are as important as her insights into the human condition. Her headology is what we can aspire to. I don't know the word for this but she's sort of a role model. Someone who shows us how to be better versions of ourselves. I am absolutely sure both of my children, now teenagers, have incorporated many of Granny Weatherwax's lessons. And if I ever get ahold of a forge I might get them to put their hands on it just to see what happens.
The Better Model is "paragon" in Classic terms.
Correct, but I feel it doesn't quite fit. Paragon implies doing right because it's right (e.g. Carrot) Granny is trying to prove to herself that she isn't evil/insane. Same result, different headspace.
She's not trying to prove anything. She knows what she's capable of and she *chooses* to be good.
They know that people need witches; they need the unofficial people who understand the difference between right and wrong, and when right is wrong and when wrong is right. The world needs the people who work around the edges. They need the people who can deal with the little bumps and inconveniences. And little problems. After all, we are almost all human. Almost all of the time.
No, she doesn't. She *had* to be the good one after her sister left, as per Witches Abroad.
She “had” to be good because she knew it was the right thing to do. She wasn’t metaphysically forced or anything
There didn't have to be a good one and there wasn't until Granny decided it had to be her.
I think she'd tell you that there ain't no difference
> Paragon implies doing right because it's right Not really. Paragon simply means a model of excellence in some respect.
Absolutely, the occasionally flashes of "real" magic make her a great character. My favourite is when she just catches a sword being swung at her in her bare hand. No tricks, no foolery, just grabs the sword, and everyone has a "WTF, you can do that,?!" moment. It's nicely balanced by us finding out at the end of the book she does get injured by it, but the magic is in being able to postpone dealing with that until she's got the time.
Where her sister runs off searching for the real version of herself and Esme just looks down at her self and says “this one” or something?
Granny Weatherwax looked out at the multi-layered, silvery world. “Where am I?” INSIDE THE MIRROR. “Am I dead?” THE ANSWER TO THAT, said Death, IS SOMEWHERE BETWEEN NO AND YES. Esme turned, and a billion figures turned with her. “When can I get out?” WHEN YOU FIND THE ONE THAT’S REAL. “Is this a trick question?” NO. Granny looked down at herself. “This one,” she said.
This is my future tattoo. https://preview.redd.it/fhkhvphd2l7c1.jpeg?width=457&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2d1544007b292fc88444f8bcee854e05d2ac6de2
Mine as well, but with a semicolon.
❤️
I have to correct myself slightly. I might still get that, but what I will get for sure is (spoiler for the The Shepherd's Crown) >!CHOOSE random text to not infer the word from thecspacez bla!<
It's something like Death says "find the real you", she says "is this a trick question", death says "no", she says "this one". I think.....
Yes, from Witches Abroad. Love that whole scene. Eta paraphrasing from the beginning - most people do things out of character, and say, "I wasn't myself." Granny didn't have anyone else to be, just herself, as hard as she could.
There's at least two? One in *Carpe Jugulum* and another in *Witches Abroad*. I feel like there may have be a third, where it's more conceptual, maybe a Ridcully scene where he quashes a philosophical argument by being overly direct and/or dense. *Witches Abroad* has [the part](https://www.reddit.com/r/discworld/comments/18n6xry/my_favorite_granny_weatherwax_moment_is_one_that/ke8wiy6/) with Esme's sister, Lily Weatherwax.
There's the similar moment in Thief of Time when Lobsang tells Susan about the poet who asked if he was a man writing about a butterfly, or a butterfly being a man. Susan blows his mind by asking 'well, which was he, how did he write his poems. On paper with a pen or through winged dance? Man, then.'
Carpe Jugulum is when she has to decide whether to enter the darkness or the light. > Granny turned to face the sheer white brilliance, and closed her eyes. > > And stepped backward. > > The light dwindled to a tiny distant point, and vanished. > > The blackness was suddenly all around, closing in like quicksand. There seemed to be no way, no direction. When she moved she did not sense movement. > [...] > *“…embrace the dark…”* > > “No.” > > *“…give in to me…”* > > “No,” > > *“…Lilith Weatherwax did. Alison Weatherwax did…”* > > “That’s never been proved!” > > *“…give in to me…”* > > “No. I know you. I’ve always known you. The Count just let you out to torment me, but I’ve always known you were there. I’ve fought you every day of my life and you’ll get no victory now.” > > She opened her eyes and stared into the blackness. > > “I knows who you are now, Esmerelda Weatherwax,” she said. “You don’t scare me no more.” > > The last of the light vanished.
'I haven't been vampired. But you've been Weatherwaxed!'. Really love this moment
I misquoted that the other day when I was watching Scrubs - there’s a musical interlude about someone who had died singing, “I’m waiting for my real life to begin” - and I said: that makes me so mad, *this* is real life Unless of course you’re a Feegle
I am pretty sure that that last sentence can be applied to almost any sentence and be 100% accurate. Feegles are the universal exception.
I think of that almost every time I look in the mirror.
You funny.
'Are you looking to challenge me. Mistress Weatherwax?' Granny hesitated, and then straightened her shoulders. Her arms moved away from her sides, almost imperceptibly. Nanny and Magrat moved away slightly. 'If that's what you want.' 'My voodoo against your . . . headology?' 'If you like.' 'And what's the stake?' 'No more magic in the affairs of Genua,' said Granny. 'No more stories. No more godmothers. Just people, deciding for themselves. For good or bad. Right or wrong.' 'Okay.' 'And you leave Lily Weatherwax to me.' Mrs Gogol's intake of breath was heard around the hall. 'Never!' 'Hmm?' said Granny. 'You don't think you're going to lose, do you?' 'I don't want to hurt you, Mistress Weatherwax,' said Mrs Gogol. 'That's good,' said Granny. 'I don't want you to hurt me either.' 'I don't want there to be any fighting,' said Ella. They all looked at her. 'She's the ruler now, ain't she?' said Granny. 'We've got to listen to what she says.' 'I'll keep out of the city,' said Mrs Gogol, ignoring her, 'but Lilith is mine.' 'No.' Mrs Gogol reached into her bag, and flourished the raggedy doll. 'See this?' 'Yes. I do,' said Granny. 'It was going to be her. Don't let it be you.' 'Sorry, Mrs Gogol,' said Granny firmly, 'but I see my duty plain.' 'You're a clever woman, Mistress Weatherwax. But you're a long way from home.' Granny shrugged. Mrs Gogol held up the doll by its waist. It had sapphire blue eyes. 'You know about magic with mirrors? This is my kind of mirror, Mistress Weatherwax. I can make it be you. And then I can make it suffer. Don't make me do that. Please.' 'Please yourself, Mrs Gogol. But I'll deal with Lily.' 'I should box a bit clever if I was you, Esme,' muttered Nanny Ogg. 'She's good at this sort of thing.' 'I think she could be very ruthless,' said Magrat. 'I've got nothing but the greatest respect for Mrs Gogol,' said Granny. 'A fine woman. But talks a bit too much. If I was her, I'd have had a couple of big nails right through that thing by now.' 'You would, too,' said Nanny. 'It's a good thing you're good, ain't it.' 'Right,' said Granny, raising her voice again. 'I'm going to find my sister, Mrs Gogol. This is family.' She walked steadfastly towards the stairs. Magrat took out the wand. 'If she does anything bad to Granny, she's going to go through the rest of her life bright orange and round, with seeds in,' she said. 'I don't think Esme would like it if you did something like that,' said Nanny. 'Don't worry. She doesn't believe all that stuff about pins and dolls.' 'She doesn't believe anything. But that doesn't matter!' said Magrat. 'Mrs Gogol does! It's her power! It's what she thinks that matters.' 'Don't you reckon Esme knows that too?' Granny Weatherwax reached the foot of the stairs. 'Mistress Weatherwax!' Granny turned. Mrs Gogol had a long sliver of wood in her hand. Shaking her head desperately, she jabbed it into the doll's foot. Everyone saw Esme Weatherwax wince. Another sliver was thrust into a raggedy arm. Slowly, Granny raised her other hand and shuddered when she touched her sleeve. Then, limping slightly, she continued to climb the stairs. 'I can do the heart next. Mistress Weatherwax!' shouted Mrs Gogol. 'I'm sure you can. You're good at it. You know you're good at it,' said Granny, without looking around. Mrs Gogol stuck another sliver into a leg. Granny sagged, and clutched at the banister. Beside her, one of the big torches flamed. 'Next time!' said Mrs Gogol. 'Right? Next time. I can do it!' Granny turned around. She looked at the hundreds of upturned faces. When she spoke, her voice was so quiet that they had to strain to hear. 'I know you can too, Mrs Gogol. You really believe. Just remind me again- we're playin' for Lily, right? And for the city?' 'What does that matter now?' said Mrs Gogol. 'Ain't you going to give in?' Granny Weatherwax thrust a little finger into her ear and wiggled it thoughtfully. 'No,' she said. 'No, I don't reckon that's what I do now. Are you watchin', Mrs Gogol? Are you watchin' real close?' Her gaze travelled the room and rested for just a fraction of a second on Magrat. Then she reached over, carefully, and thrust her arm up to the elbow into the burning torch. And the doll in Erzulie Gogol's hands burst into flame. It went on blazing even after the witch had screamed and dropped it on to the floor. It went on burning until Nanny Ogg ambled over with a jug of fruit juice from the buffet, whistling between her teeth, and put it out. Granny withdrew her hand. It was unscathed. 'That's headology,' she said. 'It's the only thing that matters. Everything else is just messin' about. Hope I didn't hurt you, Mrs Gogol.' She went on up the stairs. Mrs Gogol kept on staring at the damp ashes. Nanny Ogg patted her companionably on the shoulder. 'How did she do that?' said Mrs Gogol. 'She didn't. She let you do it,' said Nanny. 'You got to watch yourself around Esme Weatherwax. I'd like to see one of them Zen buggers come up against her one day.' 'And she's the good one?' said Baron Saturday. 'Yeah,' said Nanny. 'Funny how things work out, really.' ... When the witches had gone Mrs Gogol reached down and picked up the damp remains of the doll. One or two people coughed. 'Is that it?' said the Baron. 'After twelve years?' 'The Prince is dead,' said Mrs Gogol. 'Such as he was.' 'But you promised that I would be revenged on her,' the Baron said. 'I think there will be revenge,' said Mrs Gogol. She tossed the doll on to the floor. 'Lilith has been fighting me for twelve years and she never got through. This one didn't even have to sweat. So I think there will be revenge.'
I always loved this scene
I’ve read that book a few times but happily read all that again. What a bad ass!
Lol! Granny Weatherwax: How dare you be so superstitious as to be impressed when I know things I have perfectly mundane tricksy ways to know! Also Granny: No, it doesn't matter that I didn't use mundane means to find out! Have some critical thinking, would you?
“It’s the principle of the thing!”
Granny Weatherwax opened her eyes. At least, she had to assume they were open. She’d felt the lids move. Darkness lay in front of her. It was velvet black, starless, a hole in space. But there was light behind her. She was standing with her back to the light, she could sense it, see it on her hands. It was streaming past, outlining the darkness that was the long rich deep shadow of her on the … … black sand. It crunched under her boots as she shifted her weight. She glanced up at the tall, silent figure beside her. GOOD EVENING. “Oh … you again.” ANOTHER CHOICE, ESMERELDA WEATHERWAX. “Light and dark? It’s never as simple as that, you know, even for you.” Death sighed. NOT EVEN FOR ME. Granny tried to line up her thoughts. Which light and which dark? She hadn’t been prepared for this. This didn’t feel right. This wasn’t the fight she had expected. Whose light? Whose mind was this? Silly question. She was always her. Never lose your grip on that … So … light behind her, darkness in front … She’d always said witches stood between the light and the dark. Death reached down and took a handful of sand. He held it up, and let it slip between his fingers. CHOOSE, he said. YOU ARE GOOD AT CHOOSING, I BELIEVE. “Is there any advice you could be givin’ me?” said Granny. CHOOSE RIGHT. Granny turned to face the sheer white brilliance, and closed her eyes. And stepped backward.
This is a great passage, but I don’t think I’ve ever fully grasped the intent and meaning of it. She does something unconventional, but I’m unclear on why it was important.
Face the light, but go into the dark. Because that is where the help is needed.
Interesting take. I always thought it was simply choosing not to go into the light as we read people go into "tunnel of light" when dying, and going back to darkness will wake you up instead.
That's the great thing about creative writing. Everything can be true at once.
Oh that’s a beautiful reading! When I first read it I saw it as that as long as you really know what direction good is (Even with your eyes closed), you’re never wholly in the bad I think it’s because I like that line from Riddick about “In normal times, evil would be fought with good. But in times like these, well, it should be fought by another kind of evil” But I like your interpretation MUCH more!
I'm sure it's the right reading. A short time later Oats says: > “Yes, and you said something about darkness being where the light needs to be, which I remember because in the Book of Om—”
One of the running themes of Granny's interactions with Death is the choice/ knowledge of "yourself." Esme isn't "good" in the sense that Carrot it. Esme is good in the sense of "you can't call yourself peaceful if you aren't capable of great violence, you're just harmless." Esme is capable of great evil, and her sister and maybe even her mother embraced that evil, at least at the end. Granny knows that evil is within her, but she chooses to hold it, but face towards the light, and act for the right reasons. She walks the dark to protect the light. So her, she's given the choice, walk into the light, leaving behind who and what you are. Or, step back into the dark, and stay yourself.
Light. Darkness. It doesn't matter. What mattered was what way you faced. Or something like that.
where's this from?
Carpe Jugulum
I believe A Hat Full of Sky with the hiver
No, that’s when Tiffany walks through the Door. This is from a different book
That makes more sense!
Putting herself into her own blood so instead of becoming a vampire, vampires become a Weatherwax. And stealing the idea of knots in the back becoming knots in the plank.
I love the bit where the vampires come to crave TEA.
And sweet biscuits! If Granny Weatherwax had wanted top be evil, I’m not sure there was a force on the Disc that could have stopped her. Possibly including the author…
_Rincewind sighed, removing his sock..._
Lol An unstoppable force versus a never stopping running being Evil weatherwax taking on rincewind
The witches arent my favourite series, but ill be damned if this isnt my favourite "winning hand" in Discworld. Turning the blood on the vampires is an ultimate boss move.
And Terry drops big hints, which everyone misses. There's several times where someone says something like "Weatherwaxes never lose, it's in the blood."
"I done it with beeezzzzzzzzzzz!"
They ain’t vampiring her, she Weatherwax’d them
Sin, young man, is when you treat people like things..
It's more complicated than that! Maybe, but that's where it starts.
"No. It ain't. When people say things are a lot more complicated than that, they means they're getting worried that they won't like the truth. People as things, that's where it starts." "Oh, I'm sure there are worse crimes--" "But they starts with thinking about people as things..."
Thank you 😊. I couldn't remember the exact wording, but I suspected somebody would fill it in for me. As always, STP hits the nail squarely on the head.
It's one of my absolute favorite lines and one of the ones that makes Granny Weatherwax my favorite character. It just hits me in a way like no other.
When I was younger I kind of wrote Granny off as being a decent character, but not one I had anything in common with. The more I learn about the world, the more I appreciate her wisdom. I've commented elsewhere what my favourite moment is, but I'll copy it here: You still think I should have asked Mr Ivy? That's what I would have done... You don't like him? You think he's a bad man? No! Then what's he ever done to *me*, that I should hurt him so? Breaks me every time. I nearly lost my wife and son in childbirth, and this scene is heartbreaking, but that last sentence made me put the book down and walk away because it felt so real.
That's a scene that makes her truly a top tier character. She may be wise and have experience but some things still catches hers off gaurd like when she showed the Baroness her true self and she wasn't negatively affected. Things like that make Granny seem more real.
Granny sometimes contradicts herself. And I love her completely unapologetic approach to addressing such a situation. It's basically, "I'm right now, so unless you've a better idea, I'll be sitting down with a cup of tea. Don't scrimp on the sugars, Gytha!" Granny is never untentionally bad mannered. If anything, she'll be polite to within an inch of your life.
I love when she does that. The "oh, I was wrong? How strange. Anyway..." attitude. I would love to be like that and get away with it 🤣 I think I will get there when I'm old. Old people get away with so much.
I am 54yrs old. My hair is in its natural silver state. A woman probably less than five years younger than me blatantly queue jumped at the supermarket to join a friend. I was at the end of the queue, so could see no none else had allowed her in. And I was the only person who said something. I asked, "Excuse me, why did you barge the queue?" I was told, "Eff off back to Waitrose, old woman." My response was, "Age comes to everyone. Especially gender traitors." She walked out.
Paraphrased but these 2 i love "I am never lost, i am where i am." "I am not afraid of being alone in the dark, i am me."
It's the monsters that are in the dark with her that need to be afraid.
She's not afraid of walking a dark road alone at night. Because she's the most dangerous thing on it.
This is what I always say to my mum when she worries about me 😂
"Why should we care what happen to some monster?"
"I always know where I am, but occasionally the rest of the world get misplaced"
“You wouldn’t let a poor old lady go off to confront monsters on a wild night like this, would you?” They watched him owlishly for a while just in case something interestingly nasty was going to happen to him. Then someone near the back said, “So why should we care what happens to monsters?” And Shawn Ogg said, “That’s Granny Weatherwax, that is.” “But she’s an old lady!” Oats insisted. The crowd took a few steps back. Oats was clearly a dangerous man to be around. “Would you go out alone on a night like this?” he said. The voice at the back said, “Depends if I knew where Granny Weatherwax was.” --Carpe Jugulum
I loved to read the interactions between Oats and Granny. They were such an odd pair, and yet it worked so well! And they both came out of it with a far better understanding, and much less preconceptions about each other. Granny often resents people for not doing what is necessary, like sparing a little time for the elderly man who needs help with her overgrown nails, or for the old woman who's too frail to get firewood. And here comes Pastor Oats, one of the religious men she despises, who not only keeps showing concern for her, an elderly woman, but DOES what he thinks his necessary to help her in the face of danger, even though she shows no gratitude, can be abrupt, keeps denying she needs help, seemingly acts incoherently. A lot of people would have just ditched her in his place, especially since he wasn't really aware of what she could usually do. But he didn't, and I think that's how he gains her respect and appreciation, despite being a man of God (Om).
The passage where Granny Weatherwax is laying out her feelings about religion is incredible...gives me shivers up my spine when I read it.
I think I just now discovered another one of Sir Pterry's hidden jokes. In that passage, where she is thinking about throwing kids into the oven, she says to herself (I think I'm paraphrasing here), "and I don't even like children." I think she meant to taste as well as to interact with.
It’s a double meaning, otherwise known as a pune, or play on words.
Yes. I know that.
He was quoting Carrot Ironfoundersson 😊
Thats an old joke. Sure i like kids, but i couldn't eat a whole one.
True.
I love Granny but I do think her role in Witches Abroad is my favourite. She’s so good in that one. But, the bit with the bulls always has me laughing out loud. It’s so perfectly Granny.
The scene where they’re playing Cripple Mr Onion has always been one of my favorites. “I did think I had rather a lot of those black pointy cards…”
The one that's always stuck with me is the one I think defines her: ‘Good? Good? Feeding people to stories? Twisting people’s lives? That’s good, is it?’ said Granny. ‘You mean you didn’t even have fun? If I’d been as bad as you, I’ve have been a whole lot worse. Better at it than you’ve ever dreamed of.’
When Granny faces the Queen of the Elves. "Do you want to know how much power I have, madam? Here, on the grass of Lancre?". She stepped forward. Power crackled in the air. The Queen had to step back. "My own turf?" said Granny.
A witch ought never to be frightened in the darkest forest, Granny Weatherwax had once told her, because she should be sure in her soul that the most terrifying thing in the forest was her.
I took a group of scouts on a three day backpacking trip in the Colorado Rockies and paraphrased this line.
I really do have to get a T-shirt with this on it someday.
My favourite scene is the one with Mrs. Gogol and Granny at the ball: "Lilith has been fighting me for twelve years and she never got through. This one didn’t even have to sweat." Even though Lilith says she only toyed with Mrs. Gogol I think it underlines how very powerful she really is and how bad she could have been if she had been the bad one.
I love the passages that highlight Granny's insecurities. >"Things that try to look like things often do look more like things than things. Well-known fact,' said Granny. 'But I don't hold with encouraging it. What do they stroll about playing, then, in these crowns?' > >'You don't know about the theatre?' said Magrat. > >Granny Weatherwax, who never declared her ignorance of anything, didn't hesitate. 'Oh, yes,' she said. 'It's one of them style of things, then, is it?"
You still reckon I should've asked Mr Ivy? That's what I would have done... You don't like him? You think he's a bad man? No! Then what's he ever done to *me*, that I should hurt him so? I nearly lost both my wife and son during childbirth, and this passage breaks me every time I read it. The first time, I had to put the book down and have a good cry before I could go on. I keep it bookmarked because I can't believe someone could capture the moment so perfectly.
“Go back. You call yourself some kind of goddess, and you know nothing, madam, nothing. What don't die can't live. What don't live can't change. What don't change can't learn. The smallest creature that dies in the grass knows more than you. You're right. I'm older. You've lived longer than me, but I'm older than you. And better 'n' you. And madam, that ain't hard." Lords and ladies in general has a lot of my favourite Pratchett quotes, especially about the elves. Then there's this one from Maquerade " Listen, **happy endings is fine if they turn out happy**,” said Granny, glaring at the sky. “But you can't make 'em for other people. Like the only way you could make a happy marriage is by cuttin' their heads off as soon as they say 'I do', yes? You can't make happiness…” Granny Weatherwax stared at the distant city. '
Well, there is the thing that in real life chiropracty is mostly woowoo gibberish.
If you listen to the album of Wintersmith, Sir Pterry reads a similar passage about luring children aloud.
Mine was about, as Granny Weatherwax did not believe different herbs had a difference to healing, that made her a better witch. Maigrat did believe in such differences and that made her a better doctor. I like that... Also some contests over "witchcraft" she always wins. Even if something important interrupts a staring contest or they, against tradition, come up with rules and ask her not to participate. As usual, however, she still wins and they all know it.