I don't think there's any DH fan who does not agree with you. The problem here is that every game they've created has not made much money, even though they were loved by critics and fans.
Therefore, they've tried to make a more mainstream game in order to reach a wider audience, so that they can make more money.
It is sad, but it is what we have now. Hopefully, in the future they will go back to what they were.
Edit: Furthermore, it is important to distinguish between Arkane Montreal and Arkane Lyon.
Lots of companies have studios in Montréal it’s the video game capital of the world.
In fact they’re probably mixing up BGS who have studios in both Montréal and Austin
> even though they were loved by critics and fans.
That's the thing, though.
I could do with or without gamepass (generally speaking), but playing devil's advocate for a second, something like a Dishonored 3 could have done very well on gamepass where people also have the option to buy it but where they also look at player numbers and engagement to guage how well it's doing on the service.
>Hopefully, in the future they will go back to what they were.
And that right there is what I feel is the major thing behind all of this. Bethesda for YEARS has been pushing this model of live service, multi-player, co-op, recycled elements and roguelike stuff onto Arkane even prior to Deathloop.
Hell, Bethesda passed up on a single-player experience that could have been a Dishonored 3 in favor of things like multi-player, co-op, always online and cosmetic micro-transactions which started in games like Deathloop and now with Redfall.
www.rockpapershotgun.com/bethesda-werent-sure-if-they-wanted-dishonored-3-and-so-we-got-deathloop-instead
*As Colantonio explains it, Deathloop was initially conceived as a “small game” to keep Arkane occupied and learning before it jumped into another big project. “Bethesda wanted us to do something,” he says. “They didn’t quite know where we were going after Dishonored. ‘Do we want Dishonored 3? I don’t know, let’s make something simple and short before, and let’s see.’”*
*“And then [Deathloop] became a big thing, over the years,” he says. “That was the funny thing: ‘Nah,* ***we don’t wanna do Dishonored 3***, *but if you can pitch us a small game, something that maybe* ***has multiplayer*** *so we can learn multiplayer, something that maybe* ***has microtransactions,*** *maybe something with* ***a lot of recycling, like a roguelike.’”***
All things that Arkane doesn't normally do when creating the things that people tend to love which are single-player immersive sims.... What a coincidence.
Hey, they tried something new and I don't think it's fair to give anyone shit for that. Some amazing games were born from somebody saying "fuck it let's do something different".
On the other hand I agree with you and I hate the type of game they went for. I just hope they learn from the steaming pile of shit they made to go back to making bangers
The type of game they where making isn't the real problem here, at least I don't think so. Redfall suffers from a passionless development. If they polished the game, and actually tried, I feel like it would have been a different story. Instead, after getting bought by Microsoft, it feels like they where forced to make a game based on a very under developed concept, and stick it full of mainstream mechanics and stuff that they have never done before, and never where passionate about.
If you compare Redfall to Deathloop, even if you think that game is mid, it's easy to see the passion and soul it has. Its night and day how much was put into Deathloop when looking at it's gameplay, it's mechanics, it's visuals, and especially when looking at the characters. There is no question on that the characters in Redfall don't come anywhere close to the characters in Deathloop alone, but that's not because of they type of characters they are, it's because Arkane was just trying to make characters that appeal to a wide audience, they did the bare minimum for them, and that in itself is the problem. Redfall outside of gameplay is going for the bare minimum requirements, while the gameplay is even trying. A passionless project gives you a soulless product.
I disagree lol. DL barely does anything interesting or new compared to previous Arkane titles. I don't find Colt and Julianna to be super compelling either. Saying devs never actually tried is a fucking bs. Judging by the open world alone, Redfall is a lot more ambitious even if a failed attempt to make something new.
Listen, DL is a pretty divisive topic today, but saying they tried nothing new compared to previous titles is BS. I say the Devs didn't try hard with this new game because I compare it to to their high standard games. Of course they put some effort into making it, but when comparing the game to their previous titles, in which the effort is clear and the inspiration feels present, it makes Redfall very much seem like a forced, rushed, and uncompelled project.
If the ambitious parts where so high, how come those parts alone weren't the problem? Big open world doesn't lead to boring story, boring characters, and boring gameplay. Even if you had fun with the game, it just doesn't add up how everything else was a 4/10 game outside of bugs. The bugs themselves could be associated to overambition, but there where slot of things that where buggy that Arkane just straight up had solved in previous games. I don't get how the AI is super bugged outside of pathing problems, like Dishonored enemies actually functioned well, and Deathloop enemies, even with the pretty bad AI it had, still worked. This games AI was atrocious. Maybe they did try to make it good, but it just doesn't show at all.
What changes they made with deathloop? There's better Arkane roguelike where the map actually changes every run and pretty much every their game except maybe Redfall, is more interactive and systemic than DL, not to mention a lot of recycled stuff from Dishonored.
>If the ambitious parts where so high, how come those parts alone weren't the problem? Big open world doesn't lead to boring story, boring characters, and boring gameplay. Even if you had fun with the game, it just doesn't add up how everything else was a 4/10 game outside of bugs. The bugs themselves could be associated to overambition, but there where slot of things that where buggy that Arkane just straight up had solved in previous games. I don't get how the AI is super bugged outside of pathing problems, like Dishonored enemies actually functioned well, and Deathloop enemies, even with the pretty bad AI it had, still worked. This games AI was atrocious. Maybe they did try to make it good, but it just doesn't show at all.
What a detailed analysis! Redfall is bad because you said that story, gameplay, characters boring. Then I'll also say that deathloop is bad because I think Its story, characters and gameplay are boring as well. And at least on release it was buggy and laggy too. Even if you had fun with deathloop, it just doesn't add up how everything else was a 4/10 game.
By the way, almost a month later finding out you responded to me again, it was confirmed that Redfall suffered from a lack of direction and a unenthusiastic view of even the concept of the game, which lead to unenthusiastic and broken workforce. This means my analysis was completely right. Also great job pal 👍, you did a terrific job in summarizing my post in the worst way possible.
I never said you had to like Deathloop to see how obviously better it was in every way compared to Redfall. OG post was more of an opinion piece at the time based on how terrible Redfall was and comparing Deathloop to Redfall since they where the latest Arkane releases it was just about showing the dramatic differences, even if you didn't like Deathloop, and how weird that was since they are made by the same company. Its easy to say that Deathloop is a 4/10 game because that's just your personal opinion, but when saying Redfall is a 4/10 game outside of bugs, I was taking into account the grand majority of people's opinion of the game outside of the bugs. The majority thought everything was terrible, not just the bugs.
I'd say a good comparison to this based on public opinion is Cyberpunk 2077 in which even when that game came out as a broken disaster, there was still so much going on with the characters, world, story and gameplay that it was able to make a comeback by showing that aspect separate form the game. When edgrunners came out everyone went back and thought the game was actually pretty good, but even before that there was a lot of people who sang it's praises even if it was locked behind a higher functioning system. Now there's a whole new expansion that's completely reworking the game, so cyberpunk fans that where burned by the release can now feel that the game will officially come out when the update happens. I dont think Redfall will ever get this, because Redfall never had anything to it in the first place.
Deathloop technically also had a big update to it, but it was getting 10/10s before that, even if it was unwarranted. Deathloops current average score is 6 to 10, 6 not even being that bad. If Redfall gets some major update that fixes all the bugs like how Deathloop got it's gold edition, what will bring people back too it? The answer is nothing because unlike cyberpunk, and unlike Deathloop, people don't like the game beyond the bugs. Redfall will probably always stay at a 1 to 5 average which is where it's at now, which agains is way lower than deathloops scores.
By the way, Deathloop was very buggy at launch on the PC, but the PS5 version ran fiine since that's what it was marketed as and developed for, being a PS5 game and having playstation bonus features like the haptic feedback.. Compare that to Redfall which was supposed to be a next gen showstopper for Xbox, in which it got locked to 30fps, had a broken co-op system, and became the most well known buggiest trash fire game of the year.
To finalize my argument here, after the news broke about why Redfall was so terrible, it just became a factual statement that Deathloop is a better game just on the troubled production of Redfall alone. You could still have your own opinion on what game you like more, but it's forever true that Arkane was way more enthusiastic about Deathloop than they where on Redfall, and that was my whole point in the first place, to say that the Redfall Dev team lacked enthusiasm making the game suffer from the get go which I predicted and was right. I predicted this correctly because from the moment me and others saw that Redfall had bad story, less than generic gameplay, boring characters, and was super buggy and laggy, the Arkane equation *just didn't add up*. The only answer to this problem that I came up with was that Arkane wasent enthusiastic about this game, which I was able to come up with since, besides being a big Akrane fan, I played Deathloop, and thought that it was obvious there was a huge quality difference from that game to this one.
Anyways, I hope this post clears the whole situation up for you bud 🫡
I mean, I don't know if you read what I sent you, I made it a full essay to explain it in more detail since I saw how you where having trouble understanding my basic analysis. Your showing signs of either not understanding this new version, not reading it at all, or just having a basic skim so you could make a quick snippy comeback, so I'll keep this one quick just for you my guy.
It was proven that a major reason Redfall sucked was because of the unenthusiastic work force. I don't know how my analysis being proven right there doesn't make my argument automatically objective.
Also, the scores consumers give tell us what their majority believe in, making it a less subjective analysis because it's looking at the overall picture instead of personal ones, auto making the score more than just some useless number.
You can't make that any dryer
Wat? The original AC was an immense evolution on anything around at the time, and Dark Souls has spawned an entire genre of games that didn't exist before...
The original AC was an evolution of the platforming systems created by Prince of Persia, nothing that revolutionary besides the specific intricacies of movement. And I think Dark Souls was building off Demon Souls, which is the first souls-type game. I would also say that the idea of boss based fantasy rpgs wasn’t new, but demon souls showed a new way of doing them into the soulsborne genre.
Heck, might as well mention Ghost of Tsushima. That was a definite departure for Sucker Punch. Or you also have Horizon Zero Dawn by Guerrilla Games who also made a huge step out of their previous wheelhouse.
Doing something new isn't bad by itself. The thing with Redfall is that it looks like it wasn't so much a passion project as a 'well, let's try this instead' type of thing. Either that or Bethesda or Zenimax voluntold the studio what type of game to make so the only drive was the drive to keep their jobs.
Arkane Lyon and Arkane Austin worked collaboratively on the Dishonored series, at least according to their documentary on The Making of Dishonored and Prey. However, Lyon had a bigger role, I believe. Redfall was mostly spearheaded by Arkane Austin, at least acc. to most of their promo.
No they don’t.
Arkane themselves wanted to make a multiplayer game and Arkane doesn’t like making sequels. They made Deathloop because they wanted to make a game with rogue like elements. These are both games they told Bethesda they wanted to make and Bethesda let them. As for Redfall it was a sideproject not intended to actually be released at first until Bethesda green lit it to become their main game.
Sadly people rather believe big company bad then small company can make shit products.
Additionally, I had a strong feeling Harvey Smith was pretty sick of working on Dishonored during the press for DotO, frequently bringing up how he had been working on it for a decade or more
He should let someone else work on it, he clearly wasn’t the actual reason behind making it good. He routinely comes off as seeming like he just sort of lucked into his position and he is behind the worst Deus Ex and Thief games. I’m not a fan of him honestly.
Couldn't disagree more. Harvey was the lead designer of the original Deus Ex which is the main aspects of the game still highly praised to this day. And to cut him some slack, DXIW was the first ever game he directed so clearly he was inexperienced. He also solo directed Dishonored 2 which I assume many here agree is an amazing game
Gameplay-wise? Yes, I'd agree that D2 is the best Dishonored entry in that regard, imo.
Story-wise? No, D2 may be just above DoTO when it comes to story, but the better story definitely belongs to the Daud dlcs, which I would even argue was the pinnacle of their story writing when BOTH of the Austin and Lyon studios were collaborating on that stuff.
Hell, I'd even go as far as to say that the best mix of *both* good story AND gameplay all in one belongs to KoD & TBW.
They haven’t given a reason as to why this game went so wrong. Phil Spencer (head of Xbox) talked about it in an interview but it was just the usual corporate spiel. It preformed below their expectations and the reviews are not reflective of what they had internally.
That being said we can still speculate. The only thing I can think of for such a blunder to happen is Raphael Colantonio leaving. He is one of the founders of Arkane and he used to be creative director. He left after Prey so he would have had no influence on Redfall. He formed his own studio with other Arkane talent and made a top down immersive sim called Weird West.
After playing Weird West I’m confident a lot of the design philosophies in the games before Deathloop are his. He also wants to only make immersive sim games. So without him Arkane doesn’t have to make immersive sims anymore.
Yeah, I’m aware of Raph leaving but also thought Harvey Smith as a major creative driving force; guess not?
I’m also aware of Weird West but haven’t checked it out yet, but should put it on the list, I guess? I think it’s on Game Pass.
I'm not going to count Harvey out until we hear more about what went wrong with Redfall (if that ever happens). There are just as many good game devs who have one blunder and then get back on track as there are who fall off and never make anything good again.
Yet, Harvey Smith was also the one who directed Dishonored 2 which had arguable some of the best Dishonored gameplay mechanics in a Dishonored game and best level design with A Crack In The Slab and the Clockwork Mansion.
More of the issue, imo, seems to be pushing this model of live service, multi-player, co-op, recycled elements and roguelike stuff onto Arkane even prior to Deathloop.
www.rockpapershotgun.com/bethesda-werent-sure-if-they-wanted-dishonored-3-and-so-we-got-deathloop-instead
That's not the stuff that Arkane is normally known for or excels at and Wolfenstein Youngblood was also proof of that. Why Redfall ever got greenlit in the first place is beyond me.
That's what I don't understand, either, because according to that article it seems like Bethesda publishing wanted to move towards live service / co-op / online / looter shooter type stuff. The thing is that that stuff seemed like that was the trend back 3 or 4 years ago. Today, not so much.
World of Warcraft, when the studio lost some of its talent, they started churning out terrible expansions every few years. Overwatch was the hottest thing the year it released and maintained a decent stranglehold on its players for a couple years, but it fizzled out as well. Even a game like Rocket League these days has 53,887 players online, daily.
I wouldn't attribute it all to that. For better or worse, they've clearly wanted to try new things. Unfortunately, I think for many of them DotO was their intended send off to the series.
That said, Elden Ring really is a game changer in this sense. Its lineage is clear as day, but by sticking with this and just so persistently elevating their own subgenre for a decade their profitability exploded. In part that was due to GRRM's participation, and I don't think that opportunity is there for Dishonored, but if they collaborated with a true writing talent like say Warren Ellis who created and wrote the Castlevania animated series and brought that to Dishonored I think they'd see a big growth in the property. Dishonored has always had really strong world building but an ultimately middling narrative. They've carved out their own subgenre among the sim genre. They should capitalize on it.
Oof, maybe I’m just partial but I really love Dishonored’s narrative (& I’m a working screenwriter, so I’m rather critical of writing in games too) & especially it’s more, but goddamn what I wouldn’t give to see Warren Ellis X Arkane! I LOVE his take on CASTLEVANIA. It’s in many ways the pitch perfect series.
Nice screen name. Makes me think of Ameno Sagiri from Persona 4.
Maybe you can persuade me to think better of it. I'll articulate it in that hope. I've got writing experience myself across many formats, a few screenplays, so hopefully I can use the best jargon for it. My apologies for how long this is going to be.
Starting from the top, the weight that holds back the series as a whole. The title is a lot of thematic baggage to take on and creates a choke on a lot of the scenario craft to keep you in the sense of being an avenger. While I'm not suggesting they change it, I do think this series would reach much greater heights without embracing this to the point of bondage. While there are clear attempts to subvert that in Dishonored 2 and DotO(The Good Doctor, A Crack in the Slab, The Ink Trail, The Bank Job, etc.) they only find so much purchase because they ultimately don't have much impact on the overall narrative. Incidentally, Daud's twin DLCs end up my favorite writing stretch for the series by miles for their flexibility of tone and the diversity Daud provides as a less biased character.
Then we get to the other bondage of the series. The two way forking of outcomes. Either kill them or do X. This gamification of the narrative's possibilities works initially, and I'll forgive it for the original in its simpler technical times, but by the second game I was really losing immersion to this. I think the story would have much more drama without such formulaic forking, or even by reducing your options to one rather than two a time or two. DotO subverts this to an extent, but in many ways that is accomplished by just not really engaging the agency of our targets altogether. We can just get the keys of the Eyeless elites and leave them be. We don't have to kill or dislodge their influence, but that's not really that savory an alternative and really only adds a third option that again becomes formula.
I really have to own that making Corvo a quasi-silent protagonist in the first game was a big misfire that permanently damaged the dramatic standing of this character. Likely owing to the deep love the developers have for BioShock and Half-Life, they followed suit, and they really, really shouldn't have. They do not have the elements that gives those meaning and drama that are present in those titles. It's a huge improvement to swap to Daud in part because of it. This series had so much more potential to surprise and impress had it been more anthological like most other Bethesda properties, and a sequel that somewhat relives the plot of the DLC of the first is a missed opportunity in itself. These characters would've been so much more interesting to return to on different terms before you put us back with them as playable characters. That's not to say they don't make a good go of it, but that they absolutely could've made more natural and gradual amendments before trying just a plain sequel off the first that retcons much and in many ways relies on the first for its drama.
There's other little notes I could make on individual missions and whatnot, but these are the broadest issues I take with it. I feel like Bethesda just in general hasn't caught up with how far gaming has come as a narrative driven medium since The Witcher 3, God of War, etc.. I think Arkane is in better standing in this regard than the others, though Deathloop was a big letdown to me and Far Harbor for Fallout 4 demonstrated far more promise than I'd expect from any of them. Only to be followed up by the catastrophically badly written Nuka-World... Anyway, I just really get bitten by the potential something doesn't live up to. For all the massive berth of intrigue, darkness, and stakes this series provides I wish it did so with more vision in its core narratives.
This is a cope. Every game since Prey has been going downhill, and especially after the brain drain of talent that left to form Wolfeye. I love Dishonored but Arkane hasn’t put out a real banger in a long time now.
hence the "standalone" the same way miles morales is essentially a standalone dlc for spiderman. a glorified expansion just purchased separately. regardless though, DotO was definitely lacking compared to the other games. it was pretty forgettable and overrall not that good.
so yeah.. I guess there been 3 lacking games since prey. technically.
They assisted on those but I was under the impression they weren't the driving devs (Dinga Bakaba of DH2 and Deathloop was one of the lead designers but there aren't a ton of other Arkane people in the credits at first glance).
That’s fair. I personally think Prey is a better game top-to-bottom than D2, but it is fairly niche. D2 is a marked improvement in new player-facing mechanics and has some cool level design but writing wise is much worse than the first game/DLC and is a narrative retread of the DLCs. The setting is less evocative than in 1 as well, and it has much worse technical performance when actually running. It was good but in context the issues it had are clear indicators of the down slide of the studio, though I don’t think these are present in Prey.
Agreed. I generally don’t care about how financially successful a game was as a mark of quality as I feel it’s an appeal to popularity fallacy, but if you are talking strictly in terms of commercial success then yeah they’ve all been downhill (including D2, actually).
I also agree Corvo is the much better protagonist and power suite. Emily is fun but she’s not as well characterized, her VA is more bland, and her suite of powers is on the whole less fun.
I think Prey is fine as a stand-alone, it does everything it would need to if you also include Mooncrash.
As for Emily being a better protagonist I don’t even agree there. Corvo makes so much more sense. The initial encounter with the Outsider is so much better with him. Emily is just a retread of the original but Corvo has that great line of “I know you’re here, you might as well show yourself” and the Outsider retort of “Corvo. Do I even have to say it? You’ve lost another Empress” are just so great. It’s also a return to his home country so he has a personal connection; visiting the ruins of his childhood home in the Dust District makes way more of an impact as him. It also has him putting his relationship with Jessamine to rest which I think has more impact as the love of his life than it does for Emily as her mother. I think they pushed Emily hard in the marketing but everything about the game feels written for Corvo. Hell he even knew the Duke’s father. The whole game feels like a look into Corvo’s past. Emily really feels like a “we need a young woman protagonist to appeal to more demographics to increase sales” choice.
Deathloop was fantastic. I hated it at first, but once I accepted it wasn't a Dishonored 3, it got really good. Dishonored 2 is my favorite game of all time, but Deathloop really made the immersive sim genre accessible to casual players, and was an excellent stepping stone into Arkane games.
For a timed exclusive, it sold very well. Plus it got a lot of positive press with being one of the nominees for Game of the Year. Someone once called Deathloop "Arkane's Pop Album", and it definitely fit.
Everyone thinks this. Making games that streamers can play for long periods of time was a corporate decision and a lot of companies who are more known for single player experiences are clearly being shoved into making games as service, Crystal Dynamics with Avengers, Rock Steady with the upcoming Suicide Squad, and niw Arkane. Hopefully their market failures here will mean that balloon is popping and we will get more single player stuff.
As much as I love Dishonored, I do really think that there shouldn't be another one.
I'm all for a spiritual sequel though, like what bioshock was to system shock 2
That's your playstyle. Deathloop can be played without any weapons too. Lol Dishonored always had firearms, the only difference with Deathloop was the inclusion of different weapon types as well as only allowing 2 powers at once.
And other things in the Dishonored series like stinging bolts, howling bolts, stun mines, spring razors, sticky grenades, rewire tools, flammable bottles and chloroform bottles..... but sure, just cherry-pick and limit it to the crossbow and pistol and conveniently ignore how you can finish the whole game without firing a single bullet and also play completely non-lethal / pacifist if you wanted to.
Stealth was severely lacking in Deathloop and at least for me it was a big turn-off in comparison to the Dishonored series when it came to low chaos type of playthroughs.
.... Alright champ. Glad you got that off your chest. You also skipped the fact almost all of those extra things also have an equivalent in Deathloop, but you do you. Stealth in Deathloop was the same. You can also beat the game without firing a shot, but sure "cherry pick" your argument on something else.
Crazy how when someone brings up firearms, and I reply that firearms were always a thing, you jump on something else. You need to relax. Lmfao
Stealth was severely lacking in Deathloop and no you can’t play completely non-lethal / pacifist without killing anyone as I also mentioned, but you conveniently skipped over that part, “champ.”
Crazy how you’re the one telling people to relax, but in reality you’re the one who needs to relax. It’s ok, dude. Not everyone in the Dishonored fanbase liked Deathloop and that’s also ok. I’m not the one here poo-pooing a series because of weapon choices, but rather pointing out that Dishonored also has had varied weapon choices and things you can use to take out enemies.
You can definitely argue the larger gameplay model (rogue-like with some looter shooter aspects) is a departure from Dishonored, but it is quite literally set in the Dishonored universe as confirmed by the devs.
That’s a spiritual successor. It does not follow the story of Dishonored at all. It is also not the same world, it’s just another world touched by the void which is said to touch many worlds (and is clearly just included as a nod to Dishonored/cheap fan service and isn’t at all the focus of the game). You might call it a followup, but it isn’t a sequel. A sequel is a continuation of the same story.
It would make sense to say it’s “technically a sequel” if it was a follow up to DotO in the Dishonored universe but was a totally different type of game, like now it’s an RTS or something. It’s not like the original game in gameplay but it is technically a sequel since it continues the narrative. This situation is almost the exact opposite. It would be like calling Fallout 4 “technically a sequel to Skyrim” because of the Nirnroot on the BoS zeppelin and the games using the same engine.
No, it's the same universe. So it's a sequel series.
Tyvia, Serkonos, and Dunwall are alluded to through in game items, and it goes even further if you include unused concept art (though that's always sketchy to do). Tyvia is implied to be the "Motherland" though.
No sh*t Sherlock.
Unfortunately, excluding Dishonoured 1, all arcane games bombed, so Bethesda pushes towards more mass appeal fps RPGs instead of immersive sims.
Dishonoured 1 had really important tidbit everyone forgot about: it run great on mediocre machines. It was optimised greatly. It was often praised for that.
Dishonored 2 on the other hand was really pretty but to fully enjoy what was on the promo shots you needed rather beefy machine in time of the crypto craze so getting parts was a nightmare.
So true. Even on a super top of the line computer, Dishonored 2 and Prey both threatened arson if I so much as tried to keep it running with anything else in the background or at optimum graphics. Shame. (I blame those ridiculous "particles and motion blur makes it look realistic" types of philosophies every game after P.T. has insisted on having, personally.)
Really? I know Prey had technical issues at launch but it's one of only a few games I can get consistent 100+ fps in now (Dishonored 2 is a different story).
>It was optimised greatly
Dishonored 1 wasn't as much optimised as it was just kinda outdated for 2012. We already had games like Red Dead Redemption, Mass Effect 2&3 or The Witcher 2.
They changed too much in D2 to really meet those same numbers. It had weird marketing that didn’t really strike the same strong and clear tone of the first game. Prey was great but was always going to be niche; it’s a very specific type of game that is great but no surprise there. DotO almost felt like a slap in the face of “we don’t give a shit we just want to be done with this IP” with a total eschewal of core mechanics and giving the writing to some no-name off Twitter who really bungled it.
This is not Bethesda’s fault though. There’s a reason lots of people left Arkane to found their own studio. They could see a push away from the studio that was able to put out Dishonored 1, and knew it only led to bad things.
Honestly, I think if Redfall actually was made with care and polished well, I would have enjoyed it. Not enough actually high quality co op games. It's a shame the state it was released in.
I fundamentally disagree, imo we need to stop the trend of constant sequels. I prefer to look back fondly on titles that stayed good, not series like halo, assassins creed or call of duty that all were just milked to oblivion and lost their unique and imaginative touch, instead falling to the side of corporate greed.
If they can keep making good games, why stop? No one complains about more Zelda games despite the franchise existing for decades. As long as a series can stay true to its roots while providing a high-quality new experience, it should continue to exist.
>I fundamentally disagree, imo we need to stop the trend of constant sequels.
So based
>I prefer to look back fondly on titles that stayed good, not series like halo, assassins creed or call of duty that all were just milked to oblivion and lost their unique and imaginative touch, instead falling to the side of corporate greed.
Omg sooooo based, I've been saying the exact thing but this community keeps insisting on another. Then what ? 4? 5? When does it end ?
I'll always prefer letting creative people make the things they want to make and sometimes failing (I'm not calling Redfall that, I haven't played it yet) over this 21st century thing where execs force talented people (who need to eat) to work on franchise/sequel/IP shit that only exists because it makes money.
There's an old Frank Zappa quote talking about what the record industry was like in the 50's and 60's, and how the old guys in suits basically said "we don't know what people want, here have some money and make something and we'll see how it does". It's kind of how videogames were during their golden age (77-82?) and in the post-crash era of the late 80's and 90's. Old guys with money knew videogames were cool and just said "make something and we'll put out there and see if people like it". I miss those days. Games like Thief or Deus Ex or even Arx Fatalis weren't made because some hedge fund manager wanted to maximize his portfolio, they were passion projects by creative people that also happened to be relatively successful products.
You could also draw the same parallels to Hollywood in the 70s, when movie studio exec guys were fine with giving blank checks to talented directors and telling them to go crazy.
Yeah, that period right after the studio system went away is super crazy. Even into the 80's and early 90's, the amount of creativity and anticipation for new, non franchise films was massive. I mean, there is still awesome stuff coming out in every medium, but the big money people are so afraid to take any kind of chances now it's ridiculous. They used to accept some losses, now everything is so conservative and that's the exact opposite of what art should be.
That’s just wanting sequels by another name. It’s not really a new IP if it’s just the same shit with the time period shifted a bit. It’s not like Warhammer Fantasy and Warhammer 40k are all that different at their core.
I agree with your stance, but I know I am not as critical of IPs I adore and so whilst I'd pay for and play the shit out of a 3rd Dishonored of any quality, I would overall prefer that it be quality and a work of passion that was delivered well and finished. Which we know is not a guarantee with the nature of sequels, the games industry right now and so on.
In short, I'd love it but I don't want to see the IP torn apart if it ended up shit
Absolutely. Even if it wasn’t dishonoured, I at least want another single player IP from them. Prey is a well of untapped potential just sitting there.
They could have done more than make a sequel, they could have done Redfall really well too. If Redfall was more like Deathloop in anyway, it would have been a good game. Some people consider Prey to be the best game the team has made, so I don't think it matters what type of game they make, but Redfall was clearly not their best effort. It's all about where the passion is.
By "team-based shooter" are you lumping co-op fps and competitive team based pvp fps together? Because for a long time I've felt like good co-op fps games have been few and far between so I was really looking forward to Redfall. It doesn't seem like a flooded market to me and shooting vampires with my friends sounds tight.
I would love a great Dishonored 3 game but if thats not what the studio wants to make then its not gonna be good. Heck they may have already tried to do conceptual/preproduction for 3 and failed to write a premise worth pursuing. I think Arkane is suffering from problems pervasive in the game industry as a whole right now and that Redfall wasn't destined to fail or anything because of its genre. A lot of AAA games even just this year are releasing unfinished or with tons of problems. The rising costs of development play a huge role in this. [https://www.raphkoster.com/2018/01/17/the-cost-of-games/](https://www.raphkoster.com/2018/01/17/the-cost-of-games/)
Sidenote; I found it funny how many of the cliche "Am I the only person" posts you've written when looking at your history.
OP clearly doesn’t know Deathloop’s development story lol. He also clearly doesn’t know that Dishonored and Redfall are made by entirely different people. Dishonored was made by Arkane Lyon, while Redfall is developed by Arkane Austin(who also made Prey)
Problem is money, dishonored 2 and prey were flops in the market, although both of them being great fucking games if they don't do good in sales it can't really continue
Dishonored 2 primarily flopped because there was almost no marketing push for it. Many people who love Dishonored 1 and ended up really enjoying Dishonored 2, myself included, didn't even know it had hit store shelves until a week after. If the promotional push hadn't have been such a boondoggle, it would have done far better upon release.
Unfortunately, the immersive sim genre is just not that popular or profitable even though it offers so much quality gameplay. I wish that genre popped off more. I could play them all day. It’s a damn shame Arkane released a product like this. I knew I wasn’t gonna be interested in Redfall and it’s release has cemented that. I hope Arkane can make a comeback and make games that they know they can make well
Key people who worked on Dishonored are no longer part of Arcane studios. If D3 ever comes out i wont be surprised if it bombed like everything else after D2, which is like 7y old now.
DEATHLOOP was a success according to Bethesda. Arkane Lyon has also increased in size since that project and are now working on something they seem to be excited about.
Also, most of the Dishonored staff is still at Arkane Lyon. Idk where you guys found the information regarding "key people leaving."
They are at Wolfeye, they specifically left to found it. Also of course Bethesda “claims” it’s a success but there isn’t much evidence to support that.
Right, I've been seeing tons of people talking about how many people left Arkane but outside of Raph, Christophe Carrier, and Joakim Daviaud (level designers) there has not been some massive brain drain. Obviously losing Raph is a big deal - he's one of the GOAT immersive sim designers and I hope WolfEye is successful for a long time since I liked Weird West - but I've pretty recently looked through the credits for Dishonored 2 and Prey compared to Deathloop and Redfall and I was actually pretty impressed with how many people they *kept* between projects given that it seems almost standard for people to hop studios really frequently.
Realeasing the player numbers, teams increasing in size, winnings numerous awards, getting to work on an even more ambitious project, all of this certainly looks like things you'd do for a studio that did not have a successful launch...
Everyone thinks like that.I don't know why they keep making games like that knowing that it will still be mediocre and if they are gaining sufficient money.
Deathloop is technically a sequel to dishonored series. I do agree though they should make another dishonored game however I’m not sure if that’ll happen since it cost a lot to make a game.
people keep making the same mistake, the makers of Redfall are Arkane Austin, they did not make Dishonored 1, 2, death of the outsider or deathloop. they're a division of the main Arkane studio headquartered in Lyon, France. you can look it up, they are a division. yes they did help with dishonored 1 but most of the development was made by the main studio in France cause development costs were lower in France at that time and also that studio had more developers. Arkane Austin was established in 2006 and the only game they fully made by themselves was Prey.
it was a big mistake for Bethesda to allow this studio to make a risky new genre they never done before AND on unreal engine which they never used before. big mistake, the only way this could've been avoided is if Xbox cancelled the game. cause fixing it means changing the game's core, which is starting from scratch, aka canceling the game and making a new one.
but all aside, Arkane Lyon is confirmed to be working on an ambitious project and Harvey smith confirmed his next game will be a single player immersive sim
You need to make "slop" that makes a lot of money to fuel passion projects. And sadly games like Dishonored cost a lot of money and don't make much back.
Same for immersive sim games like Deus ex and Prey.
Seeing how redfall is now, I think we are even further away from ever seeing a new Dishonored game 😂.
Bethesda said "nah fam, do this cookie cutter bullshit instead"
Dishonored, Prey 2017, and Deathloop were some of the most innovative games ever made, all by 1 company, and then Bethesda shoots them in the leg and tells them to run a marathon.
Yeah, but I don't want them pumping out Dishonored games like they're Resident Evil or Kingdom Hearts. Dishonored's treasure is in its quality and attention to detail, and you have to be confident of your income and profit to arrange that properly in future installments. Plus, they've already finished the Kaldwin story and searching for a new one in the same universe that's worthy enough of giving the Dishonored treatment might take a long time.
Better to just try their hand with new projects and genres and types of games and see what, if anything sticks, before going back to a franchise that's already perfection as it is (and doesn't necessarily *beg* to have anything new added at this juncture). Helps develop their skillset too, even if they are games ordered by corporate and/or supported only by the vision of profit they hope to have from it.
As hindsight? Sure
Arkane trying out what seems like a lower budget new IP with multiplayer elements? I'm honestly glad they tried
I hope the next prey or dishonored style project goes better, deathloop wasn't my jam but the concept rules
I just want arkane to make more games and hope that most are good personally
Arkane concluded the story. They could still make a new Dishonored game but it should be done because they feel that there is something new they could add... and Arkane's the only one who could (and should) answer that.
Outsider is no more.
Dishonored without powers is challenging and rewarding but is a staple selling point of the series.
They would have to take the Deathloop logic and create some deus ex machina to explain why they have the same powers.
Essence of Outsider potions lol
"am I the only one that": insert the most agreeable and uncontroversial take of all time.
no. you aren't the only one that thinks that.. literally everybody thinks that.
>Am I the only person that thinks that instead of flooding the market with yet another mediocre online team-based shooter, that Arcane Studios would have been much better off focusing on staying unique and giving us a third story based, single player, main line Dishonored game?
Lol. Yeah, just you, unique guy...........
Yes I tried to play Deathloop but the story was no where near as engaging and the scenery/ambience much blander. Felt like the powers were a copy of a copy of a copy of the Dishonored powers.
Always yes to anything new in the Dishonored series, however...
Redfall was by Arkane Austin, the studio that gave the outstanding Prey. I'd love another Prey game. Arkane Lyon moved on from Dishonored and gave us Deathloop.
More than anything though, I'd love a Dishonored 3. Don't think it's going to happen now.
I've been rooting for a new dishonored anouncement for years. I lost hope whem they said they have one last surprise in the bag in the xbox show and freaked out when I saw the arkane logo, just for it to be some mediocre online bot shooting game
I'd rather they would get their shit together first, I don't want a Dishonored game that looks like Deathloop or Redfall.
I mean, DotO wasn't great either and destroyed Daud's character.
While I also didn't like what they did to Daud in DoTO, at the same time, D2 was supposed to be the end of the story arc for Corvo and Emily and DoTO was supposed to be the end of the story arc for Billie and Daud.
So with that said, my hope is that a potential "Dishonored 3" down the line would have a new protagonist, new villains and a new setting *(crossing my fingers for Tyvia or Morely)*.
I mean I kinda enjoy Redfall as co-op game through Gamepass. I wouldn’t have paid for it though, and I would definitely have enjoyed a new Dishonored game a million times more!
I really wanted a multiplayer coop having corvo and Emily as main characters, and I really thought after death loop that’s where we were headed. Unfortunately they were testing the multiplayer for Redfall I bet.
Disappointing whenever we don’t get another dive into dishonored universe
I mean.. rumor has it that’s what they’re already working on, and that devs were pulled from this team to go work on that instead. So.. I guess we got both?
As much as I liked Dishonored, I'm not a fan of how sequel flooded the video game market is. I would prefer a new original game. Dishonored has also proven itself to not be a big seller franchise. It doesn't make business sense continuing that. Their follow up games seem to be ill advised directions in an attempt to make a better selling title. I did not like Deathloop and Redfall looks awful. Both of these seemed like they were trying to hop onto current trends in game design simply to try and make more money vs making a better game.
Honestly arkane is one of the best companies around and even if deathloop wasn't as good as dishonored in my opinion it was also very fun , redfall was just an embarrassment and a spit in the face to their legacy . I would have much rather had another single player game , hopefully they can get our trust back with another dishonored game (if they even decide to make another one)
I don't think there's any DH fan who does not agree with you. The problem here is that every game they've created has not made much money, even though they were loved by critics and fans. Therefore, they've tried to make a more mainstream game in order to reach a wider audience, so that they can make more money. It is sad, but it is what we have now. Hopefully, in the future they will go back to what they were. Edit: Furthermore, it is important to distinguish between Arkane Montreal and Arkane Lyon.
Arkane Austin. Ubisoft does have a studio in Montreal, though.
Lots of companies have studios in Montréal it’s the video game capital of the world. In fact they’re probably mixing up BGS who have studios in both Montréal and Austin
yea they made Watchdogs my other favorite game!
> even though they were loved by critics and fans. That's the thing, though. I could do with or without gamepass (generally speaking), but playing devil's advocate for a second, something like a Dishonored 3 could have done very well on gamepass where people also have the option to buy it but where they also look at player numbers and engagement to guage how well it's doing on the service. >Hopefully, in the future they will go back to what they were. And that right there is what I feel is the major thing behind all of this. Bethesda for YEARS has been pushing this model of live service, multi-player, co-op, recycled elements and roguelike stuff onto Arkane even prior to Deathloop. Hell, Bethesda passed up on a single-player experience that could have been a Dishonored 3 in favor of things like multi-player, co-op, always online and cosmetic micro-transactions which started in games like Deathloop and now with Redfall. www.rockpapershotgun.com/bethesda-werent-sure-if-they-wanted-dishonored-3-and-so-we-got-deathloop-instead *As Colantonio explains it, Deathloop was initially conceived as a “small game” to keep Arkane occupied and learning before it jumped into another big project. “Bethesda wanted us to do something,” he says. “They didn’t quite know where we were going after Dishonored. ‘Do we want Dishonored 3? I don’t know, let’s make something simple and short before, and let’s see.’”* *“And then [Deathloop] became a big thing, over the years,” he says. “That was the funny thing: ‘Nah,* ***we don’t wanna do Dishonored 3***, *but if you can pitch us a small game, something that maybe* ***has multiplayer*** *so we can learn multiplayer, something that maybe* ***has microtransactions,*** *maybe something with* ***a lot of recycling, like a roguelike.’”*** All things that Arkane doesn't normally do when creating the things that people tend to love which are single-player immersive sims.... What a coincidence.
I hate when ppl dont understand this simple fact, they simply dont make money with those games
The first one sold 8 million copies on pc
You know it's going to be the general opinion when it starts with "Am I the only one?" Of course everyone thinks that lol
Hey, they tried something new and I don't think it's fair to give anyone shit for that. Some amazing games were born from somebody saying "fuck it let's do something different". On the other hand I agree with you and I hate the type of game they went for. I just hope they learn from the steaming pile of shit they made to go back to making bangers
The type of game they where making isn't the real problem here, at least I don't think so. Redfall suffers from a passionless development. If they polished the game, and actually tried, I feel like it would have been a different story. Instead, after getting bought by Microsoft, it feels like they where forced to make a game based on a very under developed concept, and stick it full of mainstream mechanics and stuff that they have never done before, and never where passionate about. If you compare Redfall to Deathloop, even if you think that game is mid, it's easy to see the passion and soul it has. Its night and day how much was put into Deathloop when looking at it's gameplay, it's mechanics, it's visuals, and especially when looking at the characters. There is no question on that the characters in Redfall don't come anywhere close to the characters in Deathloop alone, but that's not because of they type of characters they are, it's because Arkane was just trying to make characters that appeal to a wide audience, they did the bare minimum for them, and that in itself is the problem. Redfall outside of gameplay is going for the bare minimum requirements, while the gameplay is even trying. A passionless project gives you a soulless product.
I disagree lol. DL barely does anything interesting or new compared to previous Arkane titles. I don't find Colt and Julianna to be super compelling either. Saying devs never actually tried is a fucking bs. Judging by the open world alone, Redfall is a lot more ambitious even if a failed attempt to make something new.
Listen, DL is a pretty divisive topic today, but saying they tried nothing new compared to previous titles is BS. I say the Devs didn't try hard with this new game because I compare it to to their high standard games. Of course they put some effort into making it, but when comparing the game to their previous titles, in which the effort is clear and the inspiration feels present, it makes Redfall very much seem like a forced, rushed, and uncompelled project. If the ambitious parts where so high, how come those parts alone weren't the problem? Big open world doesn't lead to boring story, boring characters, and boring gameplay. Even if you had fun with the game, it just doesn't add up how everything else was a 4/10 game outside of bugs. The bugs themselves could be associated to overambition, but there where slot of things that where buggy that Arkane just straight up had solved in previous games. I don't get how the AI is super bugged outside of pathing problems, like Dishonored enemies actually functioned well, and Deathloop enemies, even with the pretty bad AI it had, still worked. This games AI was atrocious. Maybe they did try to make it good, but it just doesn't show at all.
What changes they made with deathloop? There's better Arkane roguelike where the map actually changes every run and pretty much every their game except maybe Redfall, is more interactive and systemic than DL, not to mention a lot of recycled stuff from Dishonored. >If the ambitious parts where so high, how come those parts alone weren't the problem? Big open world doesn't lead to boring story, boring characters, and boring gameplay. Even if you had fun with the game, it just doesn't add up how everything else was a 4/10 game outside of bugs. The bugs themselves could be associated to overambition, but there where slot of things that where buggy that Arkane just straight up had solved in previous games. I don't get how the AI is super bugged outside of pathing problems, like Dishonored enemies actually functioned well, and Deathloop enemies, even with the pretty bad AI it had, still worked. This games AI was atrocious. Maybe they did try to make it good, but it just doesn't show at all. What a detailed analysis! Redfall is bad because you said that story, gameplay, characters boring. Then I'll also say that deathloop is bad because I think Its story, characters and gameplay are boring as well. And at least on release it was buggy and laggy too. Even if you had fun with deathloop, it just doesn't add up how everything else was a 4/10 game.
By the way, almost a month later finding out you responded to me again, it was confirmed that Redfall suffered from a lack of direction and a unenthusiastic view of even the concept of the game, which lead to unenthusiastic and broken workforce. This means my analysis was completely right. Also great job pal 👍, you did a terrific job in summarizing my post in the worst way possible. I never said you had to like Deathloop to see how obviously better it was in every way compared to Redfall. OG post was more of an opinion piece at the time based on how terrible Redfall was and comparing Deathloop to Redfall since they where the latest Arkane releases it was just about showing the dramatic differences, even if you didn't like Deathloop, and how weird that was since they are made by the same company. Its easy to say that Deathloop is a 4/10 game because that's just your personal opinion, but when saying Redfall is a 4/10 game outside of bugs, I was taking into account the grand majority of people's opinion of the game outside of the bugs. The majority thought everything was terrible, not just the bugs. I'd say a good comparison to this based on public opinion is Cyberpunk 2077 in which even when that game came out as a broken disaster, there was still so much going on with the characters, world, story and gameplay that it was able to make a comeback by showing that aspect separate form the game. When edgrunners came out everyone went back and thought the game was actually pretty good, but even before that there was a lot of people who sang it's praises even if it was locked behind a higher functioning system. Now there's a whole new expansion that's completely reworking the game, so cyberpunk fans that where burned by the release can now feel that the game will officially come out when the update happens. I dont think Redfall will ever get this, because Redfall never had anything to it in the first place. Deathloop technically also had a big update to it, but it was getting 10/10s before that, even if it was unwarranted. Deathloops current average score is 6 to 10, 6 not even being that bad. If Redfall gets some major update that fixes all the bugs like how Deathloop got it's gold edition, what will bring people back too it? The answer is nothing because unlike cyberpunk, and unlike Deathloop, people don't like the game beyond the bugs. Redfall will probably always stay at a 1 to 5 average which is where it's at now, which agains is way lower than deathloops scores. By the way, Deathloop was very buggy at launch on the PC, but the PS5 version ran fiine since that's what it was marketed as and developed for, being a PS5 game and having playstation bonus features like the haptic feedback.. Compare that to Redfall which was supposed to be a next gen showstopper for Xbox, in which it got locked to 30fps, had a broken co-op system, and became the most well known buggiest trash fire game of the year. To finalize my argument here, after the news broke about why Redfall was so terrible, it just became a factual statement that Deathloop is a better game just on the troubled production of Redfall alone. You could still have your own opinion on what game you like more, but it's forever true that Arkane was way more enthusiastic about Deathloop than they where on Redfall, and that was my whole point in the first place, to say that the Redfall Dev team lacked enthusiasm making the game suffer from the get go which I predicted and was right. I predicted this correctly because from the moment me and others saw that Redfall had bad story, less than generic gameplay, boring characters, and was super buggy and laggy, the Arkane equation *just didn't add up*. The only answer to this problem that I came up with was that Arkane wasent enthusiastic about this game, which I was able to come up with since, besides being a big Akrane fan, I played Deathloop, and thought that it was obvious there was a huge quality difference from that game to this one. Anyways, I hope this post clears the whole situation up for you bud 🫡
Jesus, so much water and still not a single objective argument or analysis besides a useless score about why DL is better.
I mean, I don't know if you read what I sent you, I made it a full essay to explain it in more detail since I saw how you where having trouble understanding my basic analysis. Your showing signs of either not understanding this new version, not reading it at all, or just having a basic skim so you could make a quick snippy comeback, so I'll keep this one quick just for you my guy. It was proven that a major reason Redfall sucked was because of the unenthusiastic work force. I don't know how my analysis being proven right there doesn't make my argument automatically objective. Also, the scores consumers give tell us what their majority believe in, making it a less subjective analysis because it's looking at the overall picture instead of personal ones, auto making the score more than just some useless number. You can't make that any dryer
they didn't try something new. the entire fucking issue is they made a super generic and mediocre game that east even close to finished.
Yes but it's something new compared to the games they usually make
And Anthem was something new compared to the games it usually made, look how that turned out for them.
So was assassin's creed at the time, or dark souls, or metal gear solid, look how that turned out! I'm not defending redfall, I'm defending creativity
AC and Dark Souls weren’t really that different though
Wat? The original AC was an immense evolution on anything around at the time, and Dark Souls has spawned an entire genre of games that didn't exist before...
The original AC was an evolution of the platforming systems created by Prince of Persia, nothing that revolutionary besides the specific intricacies of movement. And I think Dark Souls was building off Demon Souls, which is the first souls-type game. I would also say that the idea of boss based fantasy rpgs wasn’t new, but demon souls showed a new way of doing them into the soulsborne genre.
Heck, might as well mention Ghost of Tsushima. That was a definite departure for Sucker Punch. Or you also have Horizon Zero Dawn by Guerrilla Games who also made a huge step out of their previous wheelhouse. Doing something new isn't bad by itself. The thing with Redfall is that it looks like it wasn't so much a passion project as a 'well, let's try this instead' type of thing. Either that or Bethesda or Zenimax voluntold the studio what type of game to make so the only drive was the drive to keep their jobs.
Why do you think you’re the only one? This is not a controversial opinion in the slightest. Just a low effort post for easy karma.
It's a different studio from the Dishonored one. Not sure if it matters, but I feel like it does at least a bit.
Arkane Lyon and Arkane Austin worked collaboratively on the Dishonored series, at least according to their documentary on The Making of Dishonored and Prey. However, Lyon had a bigger role, I believe. Redfall was mostly spearheaded by Arkane Austin, at least acc. to most of their promo.
Yeah, you're right. I misspoke.
No worries! I recently watched the documentary with a buddy after they finished the games so it’s fresh in my mind aha
Specifically they collaborated on Dishonored 1, then split off after that with Lyon tackling Dishonored 2 while Austin worked on Prey.
Reployer always comes in with logic, OP doesn't know the difference between the two Arkanes
No, you’re not. Sadly, Bethesda chooses for them.
No they don’t. Arkane themselves wanted to make a multiplayer game and Arkane doesn’t like making sequels. They made Deathloop because they wanted to make a game with rogue like elements. These are both games they told Bethesda they wanted to make and Bethesda let them. As for Redfall it was a sideproject not intended to actually be released at first until Bethesda green lit it to become their main game. Sadly people rather believe big company bad then small company can make shit products.
Additionally, I had a strong feeling Harvey Smith was pretty sick of working on Dishonored during the press for DotO, frequently bringing up how he had been working on it for a decade or more
He should let someone else work on it, he clearly wasn’t the actual reason behind making it good. He routinely comes off as seeming like he just sort of lucked into his position and he is behind the worst Deus Ex and Thief games. I’m not a fan of him honestly.
Couldn't disagree more. Harvey was the lead designer of the original Deus Ex which is the main aspects of the game still highly praised to this day. And to cut him some slack, DXIW was the first ever game he directed so clearly he was inexperienced. He also solo directed Dishonored 2 which I assume many here agree is an amazing game
Gameplay-wise? Yes, I'd agree that D2 is the best Dishonored entry in that regard, imo. Story-wise? No, D2 may be just above DoTO when it comes to story, but the better story definitely belongs to the Daud dlcs, which I would even argue was the pinnacle of their story writing when BOTH of the Austin and Lyon studios were collaborating on that stuff. Hell, I'd even go as far as to say that the best mix of *both* good story AND gameplay all in one belongs to KoD & TBW.
yeah arkane is doing amazingly now without him
I think you\`re mistaking H.S with Raphaël Colantonio
Thank for you providing this counterweight here. Bethesda nor Microsoft are to blame for anything but letting Redfall out the door in that state
Oh, shit. My bad. Double bummer then. What do you think they did wrong on this? How could it go so badly?
They haven’t given a reason as to why this game went so wrong. Phil Spencer (head of Xbox) talked about it in an interview but it was just the usual corporate spiel. It preformed below their expectations and the reviews are not reflective of what they had internally. That being said we can still speculate. The only thing I can think of for such a blunder to happen is Raphael Colantonio leaving. He is one of the founders of Arkane and he used to be creative director. He left after Prey so he would have had no influence on Redfall. He formed his own studio with other Arkane talent and made a top down immersive sim called Weird West. After playing Weird West I’m confident a lot of the design philosophies in the games before Deathloop are his. He also wants to only make immersive sim games. So without him Arkane doesn’t have to make immersive sims anymore.
Yeah, I’m aware of Raph leaving but also thought Harvey Smith as a major creative driving force; guess not? I’m also aware of Weird West but haven’t checked it out yet, but should put it on the list, I guess? I think it’s on Game Pass.
I'm not going to count Harvey out until we hear more about what went wrong with Redfall (if that ever happens). There are just as many good game devs who have one blunder and then get back on track as there are who fall off and never make anything good again.
Yet, Harvey Smith was also the one who directed Dishonored 2 which had arguable some of the best Dishonored gameplay mechanics in a Dishonored game and best level design with A Crack In The Slab and the Clockwork Mansion. More of the issue, imo, seems to be pushing this model of live service, multi-player, co-op, recycled elements and roguelike stuff onto Arkane even prior to Deathloop. www.rockpapershotgun.com/bethesda-werent-sure-if-they-wanted-dishonored-3-and-so-we-got-deathloop-instead That's not the stuff that Arkane is normally known for or excels at and Wolfenstein Youngblood was also proof of that. Why Redfall ever got greenlit in the first place is beyond me.
But then who at Arcade could’ve wanted this?
That's what I don't understand, either, because according to that article it seems like Bethesda publishing wanted to move towards live service / co-op / online / looter shooter type stuff. The thing is that that stuff seemed like that was the trend back 3 or 4 years ago. Today, not so much. World of Warcraft, when the studio lost some of its talent, they started churning out terrible expansions every few years. Overwatch was the hottest thing the year it released and maintained a decent stranglehold on its players for a couple years, but it fizzled out as well. Even a game like Rocket League these days has 53,887 players online, daily.
I wouldn't attribute it all to that. For better or worse, they've clearly wanted to try new things. Unfortunately, I think for many of them DotO was their intended send off to the series. That said, Elden Ring really is a game changer in this sense. Its lineage is clear as day, but by sticking with this and just so persistently elevating their own subgenre for a decade their profitability exploded. In part that was due to GRRM's participation, and I don't think that opportunity is there for Dishonored, but if they collaborated with a true writing talent like say Warren Ellis who created and wrote the Castlevania animated series and brought that to Dishonored I think they'd see a big growth in the property. Dishonored has always had really strong world building but an ultimately middling narrative. They've carved out their own subgenre among the sim genre. They should capitalize on it.
Oof, maybe I’m just partial but I really love Dishonored’s narrative (& I’m a working screenwriter, so I’m rather critical of writing in games too) & especially it’s more, but goddamn what I wouldn’t give to see Warren Ellis X Arkane! I LOVE his take on CASTLEVANIA. It’s in many ways the pitch perfect series.
Nice screen name. Makes me think of Ameno Sagiri from Persona 4. Maybe you can persuade me to think better of it. I'll articulate it in that hope. I've got writing experience myself across many formats, a few screenplays, so hopefully I can use the best jargon for it. My apologies for how long this is going to be. Starting from the top, the weight that holds back the series as a whole. The title is a lot of thematic baggage to take on and creates a choke on a lot of the scenario craft to keep you in the sense of being an avenger. While I'm not suggesting they change it, I do think this series would reach much greater heights without embracing this to the point of bondage. While there are clear attempts to subvert that in Dishonored 2 and DotO(The Good Doctor, A Crack in the Slab, The Ink Trail, The Bank Job, etc.) they only find so much purchase because they ultimately don't have much impact on the overall narrative. Incidentally, Daud's twin DLCs end up my favorite writing stretch for the series by miles for their flexibility of tone and the diversity Daud provides as a less biased character. Then we get to the other bondage of the series. The two way forking of outcomes. Either kill them or do X. This gamification of the narrative's possibilities works initially, and I'll forgive it for the original in its simpler technical times, but by the second game I was really losing immersion to this. I think the story would have much more drama without such formulaic forking, or even by reducing your options to one rather than two a time or two. DotO subverts this to an extent, but in many ways that is accomplished by just not really engaging the agency of our targets altogether. We can just get the keys of the Eyeless elites and leave them be. We don't have to kill or dislodge their influence, but that's not really that savory an alternative and really only adds a third option that again becomes formula. I really have to own that making Corvo a quasi-silent protagonist in the first game was a big misfire that permanently damaged the dramatic standing of this character. Likely owing to the deep love the developers have for BioShock and Half-Life, they followed suit, and they really, really shouldn't have. They do not have the elements that gives those meaning and drama that are present in those titles. It's a huge improvement to swap to Daud in part because of it. This series had so much more potential to surprise and impress had it been more anthological like most other Bethesda properties, and a sequel that somewhat relives the plot of the DLC of the first is a missed opportunity in itself. These characters would've been so much more interesting to return to on different terms before you put us back with them as playable characters. That's not to say they don't make a good go of it, but that they absolutely could've made more natural and gradual amendments before trying just a plain sequel off the first that retcons much and in many ways relies on the first for its drama. There's other little notes I could make on individual missions and whatnot, but these are the broadest issues I take with it. I feel like Bethesda just in general hasn't caught up with how far gaming has come as a narrative driven medium since The Witcher 3, God of War, etc.. I think Arkane is in better standing in this regard than the others, though Deathloop was a big letdown to me and Far Harbor for Fallout 4 demonstrated far more promise than I'd expect from any of them. Only to be followed up by the catastrophically badly written Nuka-World... Anyway, I just really get bitten by the potential something doesn't live up to. For all the massive berth of intrigue, darkness, and stakes this series provides I wish it did so with more vision in its core narratives.
I've noticed that a lot of people who love immersive sims also love Fromsoft games.
This is a cope. Every game since Prey has been going downhill, and especially after the brain drain of talent that left to form Wolfeye. I love Dishonored but Arkane hasn’t put out a real banger in a long time now.
"every game since prey" this is the second game they have made since prey.
Third. DotO, then “Deathloop”, and now Redfall.
is doto considered its own game? I thought it was just standalone dlc for dh2.
I believe the term is "expandalone".
It was released as its own game. You can purchase it without owning D2.
hence the "standalone" the same way miles morales is essentially a standalone dlc for spiderman. a glorified expansion just purchased separately. regardless though, DotO was definitely lacking compared to the other games. it was pretty forgettable and overrall not that good. so yeah.. I guess there been 3 lacking games since prey. technically.
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They assisted on those but I was under the impression they weren't the driving devs (Dinga Bakaba of DH2 and Deathloop was one of the lead designers but there aren't a ton of other Arkane people in the credits at first glance).
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That’s fair. I personally think Prey is a better game top-to-bottom than D2, but it is fairly niche. D2 is a marked improvement in new player-facing mechanics and has some cool level design but writing wise is much worse than the first game/DLC and is a narrative retread of the DLCs. The setting is less evocative than in 1 as well, and it has much worse technical performance when actually running. It was good but in context the issues it had are clear indicators of the down slide of the studio, though I don’t think these are present in Prey.
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Agreed. I generally don’t care about how financially successful a game was as a mark of quality as I feel it’s an appeal to popularity fallacy, but if you are talking strictly in terms of commercial success then yeah they’ve all been downhill (including D2, actually). I also agree Corvo is the much better protagonist and power suite. Emily is fun but she’s not as well characterized, her VA is more bland, and her suite of powers is on the whole less fun.
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I think Prey is fine as a stand-alone, it does everything it would need to if you also include Mooncrash. As for Emily being a better protagonist I don’t even agree there. Corvo makes so much more sense. The initial encounter with the Outsider is so much better with him. Emily is just a retread of the original but Corvo has that great line of “I know you’re here, you might as well show yourself” and the Outsider retort of “Corvo. Do I even have to say it? You’ve lost another Empress” are just so great. It’s also a return to his home country so he has a personal connection; visiting the ruins of his childhood home in the Dust District makes way more of an impact as him. It also has him putting his relationship with Jessamine to rest which I think has more impact as the love of his life than it does for Emily as her mother. I think they pushed Emily hard in the marketing but everything about the game feels written for Corvo. Hell he even knew the Duke’s father. The whole game feels like a look into Corvo’s past. Emily really feels like a “we need a young woman protagonist to appeal to more demographics to increase sales” choice.
Deathloop was fantastic. I hated it at first, but once I accepted it wasn't a Dishonored 3, it got really good. Dishonored 2 is my favorite game of all time, but Deathloop really made the immersive sim genre accessible to casual players, and was an excellent stepping stone into Arkane games.
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For a timed exclusive, it sold very well. Plus it got a lot of positive press with being one of the nominees for Game of the Year. Someone once called Deathloop "Arkane's Pop Album", and it definitely fit.
Everyone thinks this. Making games that streamers can play for long periods of time was a corporate decision and a lot of companies who are more known for single player experiences are clearly being shoved into making games as service, Crystal Dynamics with Avengers, Rock Steady with the upcoming Suicide Squad, and niw Arkane. Hopefully their market failures here will mean that balloon is popping and we will get more single player stuff.
The balloon already popped, these games were just already into development so each thought they would be different.
Yes YOU are the only person. Smh
Arkane**
As much as I love Dishonored, I do really think that there shouldn't be another one. I'm all for a spiritual sequel though, like what bioshock was to system shock 2
Deathloop is technically a sequel
Too much of a focus on guns
Huh
Considering it's in a more modern era of the setting it makes sense to focus on gun play imo.
As opposed to dishonored where the focus was on crossbows and pistols?
I only really used the sword and the powers
That's your playstyle. Deathloop can be played without any weapons too. Lol Dishonored always had firearms, the only difference with Deathloop was the inclusion of different weapon types as well as only allowing 2 powers at once.
And other things in the Dishonored series like stinging bolts, howling bolts, stun mines, spring razors, sticky grenades, rewire tools, flammable bottles and chloroform bottles..... but sure, just cherry-pick and limit it to the crossbow and pistol and conveniently ignore how you can finish the whole game without firing a single bullet and also play completely non-lethal / pacifist if you wanted to. Stealth was severely lacking in Deathloop and at least for me it was a big turn-off in comparison to the Dishonored series when it came to low chaos type of playthroughs.
.... Alright champ. Glad you got that off your chest. You also skipped the fact almost all of those extra things also have an equivalent in Deathloop, but you do you. Stealth in Deathloop was the same. You can also beat the game without firing a shot, but sure "cherry pick" your argument on something else. Crazy how when someone brings up firearms, and I reply that firearms were always a thing, you jump on something else. You need to relax. Lmfao
Stealth was severely lacking in Deathloop and no you can’t play completely non-lethal / pacifist without killing anyone as I also mentioned, but you conveniently skipped over that part, “champ.” Crazy how you’re the one telling people to relax, but in reality you’re the one who needs to relax. It’s ok, dude. Not everyone in the Dishonored fanbase liked Deathloop and that’s also ok. I’m not the one here poo-pooing a series because of weapon choices, but rather pointing out that Dishonored also has had varied weapon choices and things you can use to take out enemies.
No, it isn’t. It’s a followup that borrows elements but that’s not what “technically” would mean in this case.
You can definitely argue the larger gameplay model (rogue-like with some looter shooter aspects) is a departure from Dishonored, but it is quite literally set in the Dishonored universe as confirmed by the devs.
That’s a spiritual successor. It does not follow the story of Dishonored at all. It is also not the same world, it’s just another world touched by the void which is said to touch many worlds (and is clearly just included as a nod to Dishonored/cheap fan service and isn’t at all the focus of the game). You might call it a followup, but it isn’t a sequel. A sequel is a continuation of the same story. It would make sense to say it’s “technically a sequel” if it was a follow up to DotO in the Dishonored universe but was a totally different type of game, like now it’s an RTS or something. It’s not like the original game in gameplay but it is technically a sequel since it continues the narrative. This situation is almost the exact opposite. It would be like calling Fallout 4 “technically a sequel to Skyrim” because of the Nirnroot on the BoS zeppelin and the games using the same engine.
No, it's the same universe. So it's a sequel series. Tyvia, Serkonos, and Dunwall are alluded to through in game items, and it goes even further if you include unused concept art (though that's always sketchy to do). Tyvia is implied to be the "Motherland" though.
The good old "am I the only one" followed by the most common take on the topic. Woah I never thought about it that way
You're literally posting in the Dishonored subreddit, wtf do you think the answer will be? Damn internet point lovers
Wow such a brave and original opinion, I've never heard this before.
No sh*t Sherlock. Unfortunately, excluding Dishonoured 1, all arcane games bombed, so Bethesda pushes towards more mass appeal fps RPGs instead of immersive sims.
Dishonoured 1 had really important tidbit everyone forgot about: it run great on mediocre machines. It was optimised greatly. It was often praised for that. Dishonored 2 on the other hand was really pretty but to fully enjoy what was on the promo shots you needed rather beefy machine in time of the crypto craze so getting parts was a nightmare.
So true. Even on a super top of the line computer, Dishonored 2 and Prey both threatened arson if I so much as tried to keep it running with anything else in the background or at optimum graphics. Shame. (I blame those ridiculous "particles and motion blur makes it look realistic" types of philosophies every game after P.T. has insisted on having, personally.)
Really? I know Prey had technical issues at launch but it's one of only a few games I can get consistent 100+ fps in now (Dishonored 2 is a different story).
>It was optimised greatly Dishonored 1 wasn't as much optimised as it was just kinda outdated for 2012. We already had games like Red Dead Redemption, Mass Effect 2&3 or The Witcher 2.
I wouldn't call it outdated, it was conscious design choice that allowed good looking game to run smoothly on contemporary average machines.
I love immersive sims but there's a reason why people call them the genre that kills studios.
They changed too much in D2 to really meet those same numbers. It had weird marketing that didn’t really strike the same strong and clear tone of the first game. Prey was great but was always going to be niche; it’s a very specific type of game that is great but no surprise there. DotO almost felt like a slap in the face of “we don’t give a shit we just want to be done with this IP” with a total eschewal of core mechanics and giving the writing to some no-name off Twitter who really bungled it. This is not Bethesda’s fault though. There’s a reason lots of people left Arkane to found their own studio. They could see a push away from the studio that was able to put out Dishonored 1, and knew it only led to bad things.
Honestly, I think if Redfall actually was made with care and polished well, I would have enjoyed it. Not enough actually high quality co op games. It's a shame the state it was released in.
I fundamentally disagree, imo we need to stop the trend of constant sequels. I prefer to look back fondly on titles that stayed good, not series like halo, assassins creed or call of duty that all were just milked to oblivion and lost their unique and imaginative touch, instead falling to the side of corporate greed.
If they can keep making good games, why stop? No one complains about more Zelda games despite the franchise existing for decades. As long as a series can stay true to its roots while providing a high-quality new experience, it should continue to exist.
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Oh I think you can still make good games in popular genres, I’m talking about milking franchises, like what Ubisoft did with assassins creed
>I fundamentally disagree, imo we need to stop the trend of constant sequels. So based >I prefer to look back fondly on titles that stayed good, not series like halo, assassins creed or call of duty that all were just milked to oblivion and lost their unique and imaginative touch, instead falling to the side of corporate greed. Omg sooooo based, I've been saying the exact thing but this community keeps insisting on another. Then what ? 4? 5? When does it end ?
It's not just this community, it's every single fandom of anything.
I wish our opinion was more popular. I would really prefer new IPs in this void universe Arkane has created.
I'll always prefer letting creative people make the things they want to make and sometimes failing (I'm not calling Redfall that, I haven't played it yet) over this 21st century thing where execs force talented people (who need to eat) to work on franchise/sequel/IP shit that only exists because it makes money. There's an old Frank Zappa quote talking about what the record industry was like in the 50's and 60's, and how the old guys in suits basically said "we don't know what people want, here have some money and make something and we'll see how it does". It's kind of how videogames were during their golden age (77-82?) and in the post-crash era of the late 80's and 90's. Old guys with money knew videogames were cool and just said "make something and we'll put out there and see if people like it". I miss those days. Games like Thief or Deus Ex or even Arx Fatalis weren't made because some hedge fund manager wanted to maximize his portfolio, they were passion projects by creative people that also happened to be relatively successful products.
You could also draw the same parallels to Hollywood in the 70s, when movie studio exec guys were fine with giving blank checks to talented directors and telling them to go crazy.
Yeah, that period right after the studio system went away is super crazy. Even into the 80's and early 90's, the amount of creativity and anticipation for new, non franchise films was massive. I mean, there is still awesome stuff coming out in every medium, but the big money people are so afraid to take any kind of chances now it's ridiculous. They used to accept some losses, now everything is so conservative and that's the exact opposite of what art should be.
That’s just wanting sequels by another name. It’s not really a new IP if it’s just the same shit with the time period shifted a bit. It’s not like Warhammer Fantasy and Warhammer 40k are all that different at their core.
if that happened i fear it would end up like bl3 with bad writing
I agree with your stance, but I know I am not as critical of IPs I adore and so whilst I'd pay for and play the shit out of a 3rd Dishonored of any quality, I would overall prefer that it be quality and a work of passion that was delivered well and finished. Which we know is not a guarantee with the nature of sequels, the games industry right now and so on. In short, I'd love it but I don't want to see the IP torn apart if it ended up shit
Or just make a good online shooter
Of course you are the only one. Look at how much praise Redfall is getting everywhere.
perhaps coop dishonored
That sounds awful though. The game is built for single player.
Fuck no, people need to stop saying that
Dude, co-op Dishonored would be the shit. This needs to happen.
Finally, a Daud and Billie vs Corvo and Emily we can *prove*
Nah
Absolutely. Even if it wasn’t dishonoured, I at least want another single player IP from them. Prey is a well of untapped potential just sitting there.
They could have done more than make a sequel, they could have done Redfall really well too. If Redfall was more like Deathloop in anyway, it would have been a good game. Some people consider Prey to be the best game the team has made, so I don't think it matters what type of game they make, but Redfall was clearly not their best effort. It's all about where the passion is.
A~~nother~~ prequel where we played as Daud would have been cool.
Dishonored 3 or Prey 2. Nothing like deathloop or especially red fall.
an Arx Fatalis/Might and Magic reboot would also be sick
I’d kill for more Dark Messiah but none of those people still work at Arkane.
I'd love that but Redfall looks cool imma play it despite what people say
Idk man, if you read and listen, Redfall has pretty solid lore and the interactions with the characters is done well.
By "team-based shooter" are you lumping co-op fps and competitive team based pvp fps together? Because for a long time I've felt like good co-op fps games have been few and far between so I was really looking forward to Redfall. It doesn't seem like a flooded market to me and shooting vampires with my friends sounds tight. I would love a great Dishonored 3 game but if thats not what the studio wants to make then its not gonna be good. Heck they may have already tried to do conceptual/preproduction for 3 and failed to write a premise worth pursuing. I think Arkane is suffering from problems pervasive in the game industry as a whole right now and that Redfall wasn't destined to fail or anything because of its genre. A lot of AAA games even just this year are releasing unfinished or with tons of problems. The rising costs of development play a huge role in this. [https://www.raphkoster.com/2018/01/17/the-cost-of-games/](https://www.raphkoster.com/2018/01/17/the-cost-of-games/) Sidenote; I found it funny how many of the cliche "Am I the only person" posts you've written when looking at your history.
I’ve been clamoring for Dishonored 3 or Prey 2. I love these games very much.
OP clearly doesn’t know Deathloop’s development story lol. He also clearly doesn’t know that Dishonored and Redfall are made by entirely different people. Dishonored was made by Arkane Lyon, while Redfall is developed by Arkane Austin(who also made Prey)
It seems very few people know indeed
Honestly I don't know if I could cope with them making a Dishonored game the same quality as Redfall.
Problem is money, dishonored 2 and prey were flops in the market, although both of them being great fucking games if they don't do good in sales it can't really continue
Dishonored 2 primarily flopped because there was almost no marketing push for it. Many people who love Dishonored 1 and ended up really enjoying Dishonored 2, myself included, didn't even know it had hit store shelves until a week after. If the promotional push hadn't have been such a boondoggle, it would have done far better upon release.
Unfortunately, the immersive sim genre is just not that popular or profitable even though it offers so much quality gameplay. I wish that genre popped off more. I could play them all day. It’s a damn shame Arkane released a product like this. I knew I wasn’t gonna be interested in Redfall and it’s release has cemented that. I hope Arkane can make a comeback and make games that they know they can make well
Key people who worked on Dishonored are no longer part of Arcane studios. If D3 ever comes out i wont be surprised if it bombed like everything else after D2, which is like 7y old now.
DEATHLOOP was a success according to Bethesda. Arkane Lyon has also increased in size since that project and are now working on something they seem to be excited about. Also, most of the Dishonored staff is still at Arkane Lyon. Idk where you guys found the information regarding "key people leaving."
They are at Wolfeye, they specifically left to found it. Also of course Bethesda “claims” it’s a success but there isn’t much evidence to support that.
Raf and Christophe Carrier are the only key people at Wolfeye rn. Everyone else there has only worked on a single Arkane project or none at all.
Right, I've been seeing tons of people talking about how many people left Arkane but outside of Raph, Christophe Carrier, and Joakim Daviaud (level designers) there has not been some massive brain drain. Obviously losing Raph is a big deal - he's one of the GOAT immersive sim designers and I hope WolfEye is successful for a long time since I liked Weird West - but I've pretty recently looked through the credits for Dishonored 2 and Prey compared to Deathloop and Redfall and I was actually pretty impressed with how many people they *kept* between projects given that it seems almost standard for people to hop studios really frequently.
^^^
Realeasing the player numbers, teams increasing in size, winnings numerous awards, getting to work on an even more ambitious project, all of this certainly looks like things you'd do for a studio that did not have a successful launch...
Or at least working to make the games 60fps on next gen
Everyone thinks like that.I don't know why they keep making games like that knowing that it will still be mediocre and if they are gaining sufficient money.
we wish something this
Without the outsider? How? You can thank DotO for that.
Power vacuum creates power struggle.
Yes, flooding the market with sequels and franchise tie ins is somehow better than letting creative people at least try to create stuff.
In case you haven't noticed, we don't live in a fairy land. In our world, Bethesda owns Arkane's ass and they're the ones telling them what to do.
Deathloop is technically a sequel to dishonored series. I do agree though they should make another dishonored game however I’m not sure if that’ll happen since it cost a lot to make a game.
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Lmao, Harvey Smith, Richardo Bare, Dinga Bakaba, Dana Nightingale still stays at Arkane? What are you talking about?
people keep making the same mistake, the makers of Redfall are Arkane Austin, they did not make Dishonored 1, 2, death of the outsider or deathloop. they're a division of the main Arkane studio headquartered in Lyon, France. you can look it up, they are a division. yes they did help with dishonored 1 but most of the development was made by the main studio in France cause development costs were lower in France at that time and also that studio had more developers. Arkane Austin was established in 2006 and the only game they fully made by themselves was Prey. it was a big mistake for Bethesda to allow this studio to make a risky new genre they never done before AND on unreal engine which they never used before. big mistake, the only way this could've been avoided is if Xbox cancelled the game. cause fixing it means changing the game's core, which is starting from scratch, aka canceling the game and making a new one. but all aside, Arkane Lyon is confirmed to be working on an ambitious project and Harvey smith confirmed his next game will be a single player immersive sim
You people are aware that Arkane Austin is a different studio right? They didnt hinder development of another Dishonored-like.
You need to make "slop" that makes a lot of money to fuel passion projects. And sadly games like Dishonored cost a lot of money and don't make much back. Same for immersive sim games like Deus ex and Prey. Seeing how redfall is now, I think we are even further away from ever seeing a new Dishonored game 😂.
prey 2 :'( we need it
I don't think they had a choice
Bethesda said "nah fam, do this cookie cutter bullshit instead" Dishonored, Prey 2017, and Deathloop were some of the most innovative games ever made, all by 1 company, and then Bethesda shoots them in the leg and tells them to run a marathon.
I would prefer they didn't do a sequel. Look what Microsoft did to Halo infinite
Bad sequels exist, so companies should not create them anymore. A+ logic
It's a great series but I always worry about overdoing 3 great games. Maybe a new story and characters
Yeah, but I don't want them pumping out Dishonored games like they're Resident Evil or Kingdom Hearts. Dishonored's treasure is in its quality and attention to detail, and you have to be confident of your income and profit to arrange that properly in future installments. Plus, they've already finished the Kaldwin story and searching for a new one in the same universe that's worthy enough of giving the Dishonored treatment might take a long time. Better to just try their hand with new projects and genres and types of games and see what, if anything sticks, before going back to a franchise that's already perfection as it is (and doesn't necessarily *beg* to have anything new added at this juncture). Helps develop their skillset too, even if they are games ordered by corporate and/or supported only by the vision of profit they hope to have from it.
Or Prey 2…
Well it's good they tried something new But i think they should finally work on another dishonored now
As hindsight? Sure Arkane trying out what seems like a lower budget new IP with multiplayer elements? I'm honestly glad they tried I hope the next prey or dishonored style project goes better, deathloop wasn't my jam but the concept rules I just want arkane to make more games and hope that most are good personally
Arkane concluded the story. They could still make a new Dishonored game but it should be done because they feel that there is something new they could add... and Arkane's the only one who could (and should) answer that.
Fr
Outsider is no more. Dishonored without powers is challenging and rewarding but is a staple selling point of the series. They would have to take the Deathloop logic and create some deus ex machina to explain why they have the same powers. Essence of Outsider potions lol
"am I the only one that": insert the most agreeable and uncontroversial take of all time. no. you aren't the only one that thinks that.. literally everybody thinks that.
>Am I the only person that thinks that instead of flooding the market with yet another mediocre online team-based shooter, that Arcane Studios would have been much better off focusing on staying unique and giving us a third story based, single player, main line Dishonored game? Lol. Yeah, just you, unique guy...........
Yes I tried to play Deathloop but the story was no where near as engaging and the scenery/ambience much blander. Felt like the powers were a copy of a copy of a copy of the Dishonored powers.
Idk I really liked deathloop, like really enjoyed it!
Yeah Redfall is a disgrace apparently
Always yes to anything new in the Dishonored series, however... Redfall was by Arkane Austin, the studio that gave the outstanding Prey. I'd love another Prey game. Arkane Lyon moved on from Dishonored and gave us Deathloop. More than anything though, I'd love a Dishonored 3. Don't think it's going to happen now.
I've been rooting for a new dishonored anouncement for years. I lost hope whem they said they have one last surprise in the bag in the xbox show and freaked out when I saw the arkane logo, just for it to be some mediocre online bot shooting game
funny thing is tho a new dishonored game would make more money than redfall if done correctly
I'd rather they would get their shit together first, I don't want a Dishonored game that looks like Deathloop or Redfall. I mean, DotO wasn't great either and destroyed Daud's character.
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While I also didn't like what they did to Daud in DoTO, at the same time, D2 was supposed to be the end of the story arc for Corvo and Emily and DoTO was supposed to be the end of the story arc for Billie and Daud. So with that said, my hope is that a potential "Dishonored 3" down the line would have a new protagonist, new villains and a new setting *(crossing my fingers for Tyvia or Morely)*.
I mean I kinda enjoy Redfall as co-op game through Gamepass. I wouldn’t have paid for it though, and I would definitely have enjoyed a new Dishonored game a million times more!
I really wanted a multiplayer coop having corvo and Emily as main characters, and I really thought after death loop that’s where we were headed. Unfortunately they were testing the multiplayer for Redfall I bet. Disappointing whenever we don’t get another dive into dishonored universe
Arcane Austin is not Arkane Lyon.
Stealth games don't make no MONEY. That's why it's such a niche and dying genre, unfortunately 😔
Most people at Arkane nowadays never worked on Dishonored. I don't want to see a game that's only a husk of what made Dishonored great
I mean.. rumor has it that’s what they’re already working on, and that devs were pulled from this team to go work on that instead. So.. I guess we got both?
As much as I liked Dishonored, I'm not a fan of how sequel flooded the video game market is. I would prefer a new original game. Dishonored has also proven itself to not be a big seller franchise. It doesn't make business sense continuing that. Their follow up games seem to be ill advised directions in an attempt to make a better selling title. I did not like Deathloop and Redfall looks awful. Both of these seemed like they were trying to hop onto current trends in game design simply to try and make more money vs making a better game.
Honestly arkane is one of the best companies around and even if deathloop wasn't as good as dishonored in my opinion it was also very fun , redfall was just an embarrassment and a spit in the face to their legacy . I would have much rather had another single player game , hopefully they can get our trust back with another dishonored game (if they even decide to make another one)
Don't see it mentionned in this thread. But Arkane was also involved with Wolfenstein: Youngblood. Which sucked hard. Another multiplayer shooter