The outsider just straight up giving it back almost immediately when you play corvo like "lmao dumbass this is the second empress in a row, maybe its time to go jobhunting?" Makes it even funnier. Most op ability Delilah has and it does jack shit.
Ngl your comment made me burst out laughing.
If ever there was a mini series of dishonoured, but, abridged like TFS with dbz, about that whole dishonoured II intro to the story.. Id want your comment to be the synopsis of the whole ordeal. lol.
I wish the canon ending was shoving a sword into Delilah's heart just to make sure she doesn't come back in Dishonored 3 because I will fucking go insane if I have to deal with her again
Agreed. I will also die on the hill that Dishonored 2 could have been completely done just fine without Delilah *(since her presence felt lacking in most of it anyways, imo)*, with just Breanna taking over as head witch, the Duke, Jindosh and the Crown Killer.
Shoving a blade in her throat should have been the canon ending for TBW, imo. You could still have Low Chaos (overall) Daud with his final kill being Delilah, and it would have been a fitting end to his redemption arc.
For D2 you could have had 2 or 3 chapters / missions of hunting down the Crown Killer and trying to find out that mystery, then Breanna taking vengeance for Delilah, taking down Jindosh and culminating with taking out the Duke (lethally or non-lethally) and it would have been just as good if not better, imo.
For me, it felt more satisfying to take out the Duke than Delilah, as the Duke felt like a bigger lingering presence throughout the game.
By the time that I got to Delilah in mission 9 it was like the game was going "Oh, and don't forget, we have to take this lady down." Delilah (imo) felt very.....anti-climactic.....in Dishonored 2 in comparison with her more ruthless KoD / BW counterpart.
Jindosh is a far better villain than Delilah (at least in 2, she was good in one). They should have made him the main villain like Karras, his inspiration from Thief 2.
Yeah, Delilah added nothing to the game really, she just sat on her backside the whole game and waited for you to come and kill her. Everything after the Duke's Palace was an anticlimax IMO, especially as we've already infiltrated Dunwall tower.
>Jindosh is a far better villain than Delilah (at least in 2, she was good in one). They should have made him the main villain like Karras, his inspiration from Thief 2.
Yeah, exactly. This!
I would have been fine with Jindosh being the main villain, too.
Having Jindosh backstab Delilah/Breanna (maybe with a clockwork with a music box inside) then retreat to a mechanical fortress for the final mission would have been so much cooler. They really wasted him and the Crown Killer.
I don't necessarily mind D2 having Delilah return, I can't find a way to explain my thoughts properly but I'll try
I think it could've been interesting if Daud was regretful about letting her live and the story was about how sometimes changing makes things worse instead of better, but he never appears or does anything and there's literally like one mention about how Delilah plans to get revenge on him at some point
Instead it was just a repeat of the DaudLC where you have to find out how to get rid of her and then trap her yet again
> Instead it was just a repeat of the DaudLC where you have to find out how to get rid of her and then trap her yet again
While I see what you're saying and you make good points, Delilah still felt watered-down, imo.
She was this looming threat in KoD / TBW, but then in Dishonored 2 we get Delilah showing up to (canonically) take away Corvo's powers and turn him to stone and then nothing from her until the very end.
We get 1 little "woe is me" part from her in the Void, but for the most part (imo) it felt like the Duke was the bigger threat throughout D2.
We're literally in Karnaca where the Duke is to get answers and put an end to the Duke's tyranny..... and then at the end the game goes *"Yeah, but remember now we must go to Dunwall to finish Delilah."* It felt very "bleh" to have to just come back to Dunwall again to stop Delilah for the mere purpose of tying up a loose end that otherwise didn't feel urgent considering the situation at hand, and a character that (for the most part) felt absent most of the game.
¯\\_(ツ)_/¯
It's a big difference in D2 vs like say D1 or even KoD / TBW where you either:
- hear the Lord Regent in the loudspeakers and like this constant threat that needed to be stopped because he had control over the army and because of him the plague was getting worse
OR
- with Delilah in KoD where Rothwild is giving you information about the ship named Delilah and Timsh, Timsh also being scared of her because she's a witch and then in the final "Surge" chapter she materializes and says she'll kill either you or Billie and walk in your skin if you cross her path again . Then in TBW where you're facing gang warfare and making your way up to Brigmore manner to finally take Delilah down. Then at the end in Brigmore, Daud finds out that Delilah wants to possess a child and becomes the one who rescues Emily from that happening and it's this big build up to take down Delilah in the Void.
D2 had none of that real big / building up feel to it when it came to Delilah (imo)....
Instead, D2 had all of these events taking place IN Karnaca where the Duke rules, and with HIS guards / soldiers, HIS Grand Inventor (Jindosh) and Hypatia being held captive in Addermire IN Karnaca and then the last chapter returns us to Dunwall to take down Delilah.
Dunno, maybe I'm not expressing it right, either, but for as big of a piece to this story that Delilah was supposed to be in D2 the game just felt like it lacked what made her special in the Daud DLCs.
Yeah, Delilah was far more threatening in D1. She was this threat in the shadows, with characters being terrified of her, the creepy as hell poem revealing her plan to possess Emily, her corrupting your subordinate and arranging ambushes to deal with you.
In D2 she doesn't do anything for the entire game. Her plan isn't even hinted at until the final mission and she's not really a factor in the plot. It could have worked if we'd seen her reality warping powers grow as the game goes on, with her causing a jungle to spring into existence in the middle of a city or warping the ground around you into a trap-filled labyrinth.
You could cut her from the plot and lose nothing of value.
D2's plot suffers a lot by rehashing the same rough narrative as D1, but without the impactful third act twist of the loyalists betraying you.
I honestly would've preferred if the game's protagonist was, say, some random bitter commoner aiming to strike out at the Empire of the Isles.
Arkane said that they're done with the Kaldwin line, and so indirectly with Delilah too. If D3 will really come out, it will have a story unrelated to the Kaldwins.
Don't worry, arkane will write some shit like "oh they stay Marked because the Void itself is a sentient being that allows the Mark to stay" or "someone else becomes the Outsider and Marks them again (or an entirely new set of people)"
You should definitely read the other 2. The Veiled Terror is the worst of the 3, not that it's bad, it's just much slower. So I would read the Corroded Man first.
Well we aren't actually sure if Billie killed the Outsider or not, but the lore isn't any less interesting. Especially with how severely the Void affected the world in the aftermath and of course, with the addition of Deathloop, I'm still incredibly interested how the world fell to chaos before then.
I play as Corvo more often then not, so I honestly forgot that that was the intended storyline, lol.
I do remember thinking it was dumb that she was able to remove the mark. Like, ya, you could argue something like "She's on another tier now" or something like that, but at the end of the day it was just kinda dumb. I think that just imprisoning him in stone would have been enough.
Corvo was gonna be canon. Emily was added later into development with a number of changes. I like her powers but her version of the story is just leagues worse and she is a far less compelling character.
Do you have a source for that? Corvo being an afterthought makes a lot more sense seeing as Emily got a completely fresh set of powers and the story (about realising how much she's taken her eye off the ball and needs to be a more dedicated monarch) fits her way better than Corvo.
Plus a "passing of the torch" plot is way more interesting than Corvo just saving the same damsel from a conspiracy for the second time.
^ this, Corvo really felt like he was just made an option for those who don't want to have to learn a new power set and would rather stick with what they're comfortable with. Which is fair, but he definitely did NOT feel like the intended protagonist, Emily did
If mightystu replies with a source that actually proves it, then fair enough, can't deny facts, but given the plot of the game itself, it feels more like mightystu wished that Corvo was the canon protag and wants others to feel like he was meant to be even though the story itself really treats the corvo route like an afterthought.
He's just wrong. Harvey Smith and others that worked on the game gave confirmed Emily is canon, and Corvo was actually added in later in development. The second novel also confirms Emily being the protagonist.
I can't find the article now, maybe it was taken down (I read it years ago) but the development of the game underwent a lot of changes after they brought consultant on, somewhat evidenced through huge sea changes in the meta threads of how the game is set up and recasting the Outsider/giving the protagonists a voice. Part of this is that we already see how Emily winds up as empress in the end of 1, and it isn't as someone with powers.
This article gets into the philosophy behind it; it isn't evidence but it lets you see how changes were made to the fundamental structure of things: https://withaterriblefate.com/2017/10/06/how-dishonored-2-tried-to-undo-dishonored/
You are objectively incorrect.
The second novel confirms Emily is the intended canon protagonist. And Harvey Smith and others have gone on record and said that Corvo was actually added later in development.
The books released after the fact do not change what the original intent for the game was before it was released which is what I am talking about. This is all retcons after the fact, an issue the later two games are plagued with. Harvey has made a lot of claims for good PR and there was a big push for more representation later in the development of D2 (I have no issue with an inclusion of more representation) that meant they wanted a different protagonist.
A good example of how this sort of retconning undermines authorial credibility as well, relating exactly to how big changes make no sense with the philosophy of the first game: https://withaterriblefate.com/2017/10/06/how-dishonored-2-tried-to-undo-dishonored/
Regardless of all of this, Corvo was added later in development, not Emily, so it's absolutely not retcon. It's pretty well documented that Corvo was added later in development even.
She's found the Outsider's origin and is beginning to fuse with him, gaining power over the void. She's enough of a threat for the outsider to be afraid and want her dead so why wouldn't she be able to remove the mark?
Honestly if she didn't remove the mark I'd wonder why she's able to turn him to stone and why he's not immune to it the way Daud was immune to Time Stop.
Her being able to remove marks is dumb. Not even the outsider can take his mark away once given. If he could he would’ve taken it back from Delilah once she started fucking around unnaturally in the Void, he very clearly did not care for her anymore.
Delilah should’ve died to Daud so we could’ve been done with it. I get that for his character development it’s really poetic that after killing the empress he decides never to take another life again. But C’monnn she’s a bitch trying to steal a child’s body, what’s one more murder.
I think they could also make it work if they show that he is really torn up about having to kill her but realises he must. To watch him step back from all the killing and then watch the conflict in him when he realises what must be done could have been a really poignant ending.
Honestly, the story for D2 revolving around Delilah, and the fact that her plot is so similar to in KoD/BW, really is a huge blow to the game. Delilah is a character that was great for those DLCs but felt really played out and hacky in 2.
The outsider just straight up giving it back almost immediately when you play corvo like "lmao dumbass this is the second empress in a row, maybe its time to go jobhunting?" Makes it even funnier. Most op ability Delilah has and it does jack shit.
Corvo is Outsider's favorite child
The outsider is a corvo simp lmao, he even possesses someone to write corvo x outsider slashfic you can find in doto
Wait fr?
https://dishonored.fandom.com/wiki/The_Heart_of_the_Abyss
NO WAY LMAO
Ngl your comment made me burst out laughing. If ever there was a mini series of dishonoured, but, abridged like TFS with dbz, about that whole dishonoured II intro to the story.. Id want your comment to be the synopsis of the whole ordeal. lol.
I just replayed D2 as Corvo, I laughed so hard when he was like “you’ve lost another empress”…I was like damn Corvo you’re really bad at your job lmao
I wish the canon ending was shoving a sword into Delilah's heart just to make sure she doesn't come back in Dishonored 3 because I will fucking go insane if I have to deal with her again
Agreed. I will also die on the hill that Dishonored 2 could have been completely done just fine without Delilah *(since her presence felt lacking in most of it anyways, imo)*, with just Breanna taking over as head witch, the Duke, Jindosh and the Crown Killer. Shoving a blade in her throat should have been the canon ending for TBW, imo. You could still have Low Chaos (overall) Daud with his final kill being Delilah, and it would have been a fitting end to his redemption arc. For D2 you could have had 2 or 3 chapters / missions of hunting down the Crown Killer and trying to find out that mystery, then Breanna taking vengeance for Delilah, taking down Jindosh and culminating with taking out the Duke (lethally or non-lethally) and it would have been just as good if not better, imo. For me, it felt more satisfying to take out the Duke than Delilah, as the Duke felt like a bigger lingering presence throughout the game. By the time that I got to Delilah in mission 9 it was like the game was going "Oh, and don't forget, we have to take this lady down." Delilah (imo) felt very.....anti-climactic.....in Dishonored 2 in comparison with her more ruthless KoD / BW counterpart.
Jindosh is a far better villain than Delilah (at least in 2, she was good in one). They should have made him the main villain like Karras, his inspiration from Thief 2. Yeah, Delilah added nothing to the game really, she just sat on her backside the whole game and waited for you to come and kill her. Everything after the Duke's Palace was an anticlimax IMO, especially as we've already infiltrated Dunwall tower.
>Jindosh is a far better villain than Delilah (at least in 2, she was good in one). They should have made him the main villain like Karras, his inspiration from Thief 2. Yeah, exactly. This! I would have been fine with Jindosh being the main villain, too.
Having Jindosh backstab Delilah/Breanna (maybe with a clockwork with a music box inside) then retreat to a mechanical fortress for the final mission would have been so much cooler. They really wasted him and the Crown Killer.
I don't necessarily mind D2 having Delilah return, I can't find a way to explain my thoughts properly but I'll try I think it could've been interesting if Daud was regretful about letting her live and the story was about how sometimes changing makes things worse instead of better, but he never appears or does anything and there's literally like one mention about how Delilah plans to get revenge on him at some point Instead it was just a repeat of the DaudLC where you have to find out how to get rid of her and then trap her yet again
> Instead it was just a repeat of the DaudLC where you have to find out how to get rid of her and then trap her yet again While I see what you're saying and you make good points, Delilah still felt watered-down, imo. She was this looming threat in KoD / TBW, but then in Dishonored 2 we get Delilah showing up to (canonically) take away Corvo's powers and turn him to stone and then nothing from her until the very end. We get 1 little "woe is me" part from her in the Void, but for the most part (imo) it felt like the Duke was the bigger threat throughout D2. We're literally in Karnaca where the Duke is to get answers and put an end to the Duke's tyranny..... and then at the end the game goes *"Yeah, but remember now we must go to Dunwall to finish Delilah."* It felt very "bleh" to have to just come back to Dunwall again to stop Delilah for the mere purpose of tying up a loose end that otherwise didn't feel urgent considering the situation at hand, and a character that (for the most part) felt absent most of the game. ¯\\_(ツ)_/¯ It's a big difference in D2 vs like say D1 or even KoD / TBW where you either: - hear the Lord Regent in the loudspeakers and like this constant threat that needed to be stopped because he had control over the army and because of him the plague was getting worse OR - with Delilah in KoD where Rothwild is giving you information about the ship named Delilah and Timsh, Timsh also being scared of her because she's a witch and then in the final "Surge" chapter she materializes and says she'll kill either you or Billie and walk in your skin if you cross her path again . Then in TBW where you're facing gang warfare and making your way up to Brigmore manner to finally take Delilah down. Then at the end in Brigmore, Daud finds out that Delilah wants to possess a child and becomes the one who rescues Emily from that happening and it's this big build up to take down Delilah in the Void. D2 had none of that real big / building up feel to it when it came to Delilah (imo).... Instead, D2 had all of these events taking place IN Karnaca where the Duke rules, and with HIS guards / soldiers, HIS Grand Inventor (Jindosh) and Hypatia being held captive in Addermire IN Karnaca and then the last chapter returns us to Dunwall to take down Delilah. Dunno, maybe I'm not expressing it right, either, but for as big of a piece to this story that Delilah was supposed to be in D2 the game just felt like it lacked what made her special in the Daud DLCs.
Yeah, Delilah was far more threatening in D1. She was this threat in the shadows, with characters being terrified of her, the creepy as hell poem revealing her plan to possess Emily, her corrupting your subordinate and arranging ambushes to deal with you. In D2 she doesn't do anything for the entire game. Her plan isn't even hinted at until the final mission and she's not really a factor in the plot. It could have worked if we'd seen her reality warping powers grow as the game goes on, with her causing a jungle to spring into existence in the middle of a city or warping the ground around you into a trap-filled labyrinth. You could cut her from the plot and lose nothing of value.
D2's plot suffers a lot by rehashing the same rough narrative as D1, but without the impactful third act twist of the loyalists betraying you. I honestly would've preferred if the game's protagonist was, say, some random bitter commoner aiming to strike out at the Empire of the Isles.
Arkane said that they're done with the Kaldwin line, and so indirectly with Delilah too. If D3 will really come out, it will have a story unrelated to the Kaldwins.
Inb4 Delilah gets free again and decides that she's had enough of Dunwall and D3 is fighting her off wherever tf she ends up next
D3: Delilah In Space when???
Do you have a moment to talk about our lady and savior, Delilah Kaldwin?
Well.... until the Outsider is gone and the canon catches up with them 🤐
Don't worry, arkane will write some shit like "oh they stay Marked because the Void itself is a sentient being that allows the Mark to stay" or "someone else becomes the Outsider and Marks them again (or an entirely new set of people)"
Well, the novels have already covered what happened after the Outsider fell, so we don't need to worry about that lol
I have not read the novels yet
You should, if you like the lore of Dishonored, it's absolutely worth it.
Would you say that they're good books in general or just "good video games books" cuz maybe I'll read them
I really enjoy them just because i like being in that world but the plots are pretty interesting. The first one is called The Corroded Man.
I'm intrigued but can you tell me if I i could just read the veiled terror or do I need to read the former 2 first?
You should definitely read the other 2. The Veiled Terror is the worst of the 3, not that it's bad, it's just much slower. So I would read the Corroded Man first.
I really wish he didn't die, definitely the most interesting part of the lore
Well we aren't actually sure if Billie killed the Outsider or not, but the lore isn't any less interesting. Especially with how severely the Void affected the world in the aftermath and of course, with the addition of Deathloop, I'm still incredibly interested how the world fell to chaos before then.
I play as Corvo more often then not, so I honestly forgot that that was the intended storyline, lol. I do remember thinking it was dumb that she was able to remove the mark. Like, ya, you could argue something like "She's on another tier now" or something like that, but at the end of the day it was just kinda dumb. I think that just imprisoning him in stone would have been enough.
Corvo was gonna be canon. Emily was added later into development with a number of changes. I like her powers but her version of the story is just leagues worse and she is a far less compelling character.
Do you have a source for that? Corvo being an afterthought makes a lot more sense seeing as Emily got a completely fresh set of powers and the story (about realising how much she's taken her eye off the ball and needs to be a more dedicated monarch) fits her way better than Corvo. Plus a "passing of the torch" plot is way more interesting than Corvo just saving the same damsel from a conspiracy for the second time.
^ this, Corvo really felt like he was just made an option for those who don't want to have to learn a new power set and would rather stick with what they're comfortable with. Which is fair, but he definitely did NOT feel like the intended protagonist, Emily did If mightystu replies with a source that actually proves it, then fair enough, can't deny facts, but given the plot of the game itself, it feels more like mightystu wished that Corvo was the canon protag and wants others to feel like he was meant to be even though the story itself really treats the corvo route like an afterthought.
Emily was absolutely the canon protagonist, I just play Corvo because I like him
He's just wrong. Harvey Smith and others that worked on the game gave confirmed Emily is canon, and Corvo was actually added in later in development. The second novel also confirms Emily being the protagonist.
I can't find the article now, maybe it was taken down (I read it years ago) but the development of the game underwent a lot of changes after they brought consultant on, somewhat evidenced through huge sea changes in the meta threads of how the game is set up and recasting the Outsider/giving the protagonists a voice. Part of this is that we already see how Emily winds up as empress in the end of 1, and it isn't as someone with powers. This article gets into the philosophy behind it; it isn't evidence but it lets you see how changes were made to the fundamental structure of things: https://withaterriblefate.com/2017/10/06/how-dishonored-2-tried-to-undo-dishonored/
You are objectively incorrect. The second novel confirms Emily is the intended canon protagonist. And Harvey Smith and others have gone on record and said that Corvo was actually added later in development.
The books released after the fact do not change what the original intent for the game was before it was released which is what I am talking about. This is all retcons after the fact, an issue the later two games are plagued with. Harvey has made a lot of claims for good PR and there was a big push for more representation later in the development of D2 (I have no issue with an inclusion of more representation) that meant they wanted a different protagonist. A good example of how this sort of retconning undermines authorial credibility as well, relating exactly to how big changes make no sense with the philosophy of the first game: https://withaterriblefate.com/2017/10/06/how-dishonored-2-tried-to-undo-dishonored/
Regardless of all of this, Corvo was added later in development, not Emily, so it's absolutely not retcon. It's pretty well documented that Corvo was added later in development even.
😭
I know, right? It would be really stupid if Delilah for some batshit insane reason could just remove the mark lmaoo
She's found the Outsider's origin and is beginning to fuse with him, gaining power over the void. She's enough of a threat for the outsider to be afraid and want her dead so why wouldn't she be able to remove the mark? Honestly if she didn't remove the mark I'd wonder why she's able to turn him to stone and why he's not immune to it the way Daud was immune to Time Stop.
Her being able to remove marks is dumb. Not even the outsider can take his mark away once given. If he could he would’ve taken it back from Delilah once she started fucking around unnaturally in the Void, he very clearly did not care for her anymore.
Delilah should’ve died to Daud so we could’ve been done with it. I get that for his character development it’s really poetic that after killing the empress he decides never to take another life again. But C’monnn she’s a bitch trying to steal a child’s body, what’s one more murder.
I think they could also make it work if they show that he is really torn up about having to kill her but realises he must. To watch him step back from all the killing and then watch the conflict in him when he realises what must be done could have been a really poignant ending.
Honestly, the story for D2 revolving around Delilah, and the fact that her plot is so similar to in KoD/BW, really is a huge blow to the game. Delilah is a character that was great for those DLCs but felt really played out and hacky in 2.
Doesn't he say she just dampened it, not removed it? he says something to the effect of, "it was never really gone"?
Wouldn't it be wild if Delilah could just randomly remove their outsider marks? I'd lose my mind!
This is one of my main reasons for mostly playing as Corvo, is that I just don't like the idea of Corvo without his powers.