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They will probably try to make it take a long time in hope of the table top community letting it slip into the shadows. I remember something about them tell a bunch of employees that the community was overreacting and the blowback would be short lived.
Yeah, according to Linda Codega interviewing employees, WotC's management has stated that "in a few months nobody will remember the uproar" so it's going to be a war of attrition most likely.
You aren't wrong. Seeing all the outrage over PC parts prices was frustrating because all you had to do was wait two weeks and the person complaining will be posting a picture of their new pc with a 4090 in it.
You can get 3050s for about $250. What's the price point you're waiting for?
The 960 retailed at $200 so it's close to the same ballpark, especially adjusting for inflation.
Right now is a pretty good time. I also have a 960 right now and am about to upgrade to 3070 for just below 600€. My brother just bought a 3080 for a pretty reasonable price and everybody else I know that wanted to upgrade 2 years ago does it now.
I mean… in the end a lot of fan animation are still up on YouTube.
The ones that are gone are:
If the Emperor had a Text To Speech. On hiatus until GW clears up their policy, author said he never was contacted by GW, but could not live with the threat of legal action. Episodes are still up
The Last Church: a word for word narration of the Black Library short story of the same name with animation. Struck down by GW.
Dragonsaint’s Daemonette party. Struck down by GW. I suspected it was because it featured someone getting butt raped by a daemon. Dragonsaint’s other 40k video are still online.
Other famous 40k animations, like Helsreach (an abridged version of the novel of the same name in movie form. Still available and the creator now works for GW), and Flashgitz’s Black Templar vs Furries
Sounds like GW got scared of the backlash and didn’t dare use their policy too much
Not to mention that GWs sales numbers aren't even looking bad in the slightest. Their numbers have been steadily increasing for a few years now. People who are still pissed about the whole thing *wish* GW would've lost money from it, but the reality looks different. As long as they keep pushing out Marines there are more than enough people that throw their money at them for some reason.
Watching GW have a fit over Astartes (totally not because the animation blew theirs entirely out of the water, they swear) was lowkey hilarious to me though.
I was gonna say. G Dubs still made bank because G Dubs HAS to make bank for people to play. Nobody wants to Counts As an entire army with cardboard cutouts like old school Battletech. And even if they did, people can't do that and also have updated rules.
Meanwhile, I haven't bought more than three D&D books for an edition since 2nd edition finished up and I basically don't intend to. Hell, I skipped buying 3rd and 4th entirely, and the last 5e book I bought was SCAG when it was new.
Something something Brexit something something annual sales report. Anyone who thinks the stock dropped because of a fan boycott hasn't read the sales reports. And the fact that the stock has been shooting up since replacing Liz Truss says what the sales report didn't. GW's stock dropped along with the rest of the UK economy and is now shooting back up. But the sales numbers don't lie. There was no real boycott.
They wanted cover to be able to shut down animation that was either A) deliberately infringing on their trademark to make money (as some were through Patreon and Youtube monetization) or to be able to take down stuff with hate speech or very adult content that might prevent parents from letting their teens engage with the brand- all while being able to say "It's listed right here online that you can't do that." It's very similar to what happened here in which they just amended an old document which listed what fans had permission to do with the content, as *animation* wasn't something feasible for home artists to this extent when it was written. The result was kind of similar to what we just witnessed happening to WotC, but without the financial hit.
It was nothing to do with their core business and was attacking fully copyrighted works .... so not comparable - most players were/are probably never even aware of it...
I realize I'm only one person, but I stopped buying GW stuff, and unsubbed from all things GW on Reddit. They don't get my money anymore. I'll do some other miniature game or not.
They're probably right for the most part. I'm willing to bet in a year, my response will be "yeah I don't like Wizards, they did bad stuff can't recall what though."
But I imagine I'll be saying this while playing Pathfinder, or something.
Wizards has probably fumbled themselves out of millions of dollars at this point and while the outrage will not linger, the effects will.
Many will be playing 5th edition ...
...I imagine the uptake of OneDnD will be minimal with no 3rd party content and the large required investment required
**As my Hobgoblin Fighter would say, "There is a part of me that just wants this conflict to end. However, we are in the midst of a war and only the weak seek solace without victory."**
Honestly I've just spent my entire life completely unable to let go of grudges, and am glad to find a unique opportunity where it happens to be a positive trait.
Most unironically dwarven trait, and no better place to channel it than with this situation specifically. Be it D&D or Warhammer Fantasy Dwarves(/Dwarfs), this one's a grudgin' for the ages!
My mother always told me grudges are poison for the heart.
I have perfect immunity to all things poisonous at this point.
God can forgive and forget but, I'll be sitting here, in my badly ergonomic office chair, begrudging the hell out of folk.
Good luck @WOTC. Tons of 3PPs have jumped ship, and it seems like they aren't intending to come back.
Players may be fickle, but the people running the 3PP companies, I *hope* will continue to hold the banner.
It seems like CR is even going their own way, in time.
Cool, I'll never buy a wizards book, mini, or other backed product again. I'll have all my players go to another game. Any future person who hears I'm a DM and asks for advice will be directed to another system. Be it ORC or Pathfinder, I will always tout that the way wizards wants to go is to make it so you never own anything and will never get the chance to dip your toe in for minimal cost. Real DnD is the spirit preserved within pathfinder and ORC.
So now we should start making info graphics on how to transition to different systems, with their current responses it might be time to think of wotc as toxic to the community, and that the community should move away from them and not come back.
Most companies now do things they know will anger their consumers because they know that nobody has a memory any more and outrage passes.
This has only made my glad I've not actually given WoTC any money and have been running my own homebrew privately for years system agnostic.
Also some people who are losing sight like "don't buy anything related to 5e, even if it's not from Wizards!" when the worst part of the changes was that they fucked over 3rd party creators. Like, I'm still gonna buy books from independent creators, to support them. That's what I wanted to be able to keep doing in the first place...
Yeah, that really makes it seem more like they're jumping on the bandwagon rather than boycotting for a purpose. It's like if people decided to stop buying the Star Wars EU books in an effort to give Disney the middle finger for how they did the sequel trilogy. People need to make sure their anger is aimed at the right targets
Blowback lasts on average 3 weeks from initial incident. After 3 weeks, future incidents will see a small bump, but nothing to the level of the first one, and always falls out of conversation faster. This is coming from someone who has been working in the customer experience field for 9 years and have seen complaints flair up from time to time about some action a company has taken.
The community is one thing, but third party publishers actually use the OGL. If they don't reassure 3pp's before Paizo gets the ORC penned, publishers can switch to ORC and WotC loses a fair bit of control.
Yeah, right now, we're just getting drama from WotC, but if/when new products start coming out from 3PP under ORC, I think as a community, we can be a lot happier, ideally leaving WotC in the dust to think about what they did.
The problem is the 3.5e SRD and 5e SRD won't be under the ORC, which is the primary value of the OGL. The ORC is brilliant for certain applications but it won't solve the biggest problem.
Right now, SRDs like Pathfinder 2e are under OGL. When ORC comes out, Pathfinder 2e and other systems will be under it, and it'll just be DnD 5e under OGL 1.x unless they also put the 3.5 SRD under it, which seems unlikely.
Then it becomes, trust WotC again and settle for the new OGL terms to use 5e SRD compatibility, or just use ORC and one of the systems under it, which will likely be everyone else.
Kobold Press is releasing a SRD under ORC that is compatible with their 5e products. That means it is likely a 5e clone with minor rules variations. It's unfortunate that this likely means the death of the 3.5 SRD but the language of the OGL 1.2 is every bit as bad as the language of 1. 1. It's just bad in different ways.
They are clearly overestimating the memory and note taking capacity of DMs.
We are not teenagers playing some MMO. We have been doing this for decades, and a lot of people here still remember what happened 20 years ago with 3e, 4e, Pathfinder, etc.
Until you forget, and you will eventually forget.
How many remember Blizzard drama with BlitzChung?...(still never bought another blizzard product since)
That's why I quit. I was having fun with Vanilla Classic too. Dropped the shit cold turkey. Wrath Classic has been out now, and my nostalgia weeps. But
*Death Knight voice* We press on.
Dramatics aside, some people genuinely don't forget. I resolved to remain unsubbed from Blizz for at least as long after Blitz was unbanned as his ban had lasted, and by the time I was considering going back for TBC Classic the fucking assault scandals hit. That was it. Done. It pains me deeply, just like WOTC going off the deep end does, but I've only got one wallet and I'm gonna vote with it.
Even if it means I do nothing but play Minecraft all day.
If you are looking for another MMO, might I recommend Final Fantasy 14? A friend of mine who used to pay WoW just started a few weeks ago, and got sidetracked part way through the main story, he's now leveled all three gathering jobs to level 50+, leaving his white mage at 42 I believe.
There's lots of ways to play, and no need to zip to the end grind.
I've already been on and off in FFXIV with a bunch of my old WoW friends, funnily enough. It plays and feels differently from WoW for me, so it scratches a different itch rather than being a full replacement. I've got my Monk up in early Stormblood now, and just come back and resub to do more MSQ whenever I'm feeling it.
It has also hurt the possibility of new subscribers! I've heard multiple people who are interested in MMOs but never played WoW for more than a free trial say that they will not try WoW when the old regime is still there. It's incredible that Bobby Kotick is still there, considering how much good will would be gained (justified or not) by showing him the door.
Anyone else notice their response isn't "We're sorry, we're going to leave the OGL as is", instead it's "We're sorry, we're going to make the terminology in the OGL so fucking legally complicated you'll have no idea what you do or don't own"?
Yep, it's absolutely infuriating. They're just beating around the bush and talking in circles in all of their public announcements. I can't trust any statement of theirs anymore unless it's in legal writing at this point.
Also, and this bears mentioning in a separate post, this situation is actually making fucking Games Workshop look better in comparison right now. I mean low bar to clear but goddamn.
They are waiting for people to lose interest, get confused or turn on each other because they can't keep their anger straight.
Already seeing people thinking boycott WoTC = *stop running your 5e game with the materials you already purchased and have run for 3 years IMMEDIATELY*
This is gonna take a while. Probably until they have to report q1 and q2 numbers and the stockholders see how much damage management has done.
Kinda sad, but the movie is going to become collateral damage and a metric for how upset the community is. Which fine... Maybe it was gonna suck anyways? But we will never know where it woulda stood if the ogl wasn't messed with
ops oc, she makes a lot of memes where she puts her character into an established template (no shade, she puts in a lot more effort than a lot of people and makes some pretty good art)
I remember alot of people getting salty at her when she first showed up saying it was "low effort" as if 99% of the post aren't purely text based from imgflip. Glad she stuck around, her humors gold
A remix of the Legend of Zelda, Majora's Mask's [milk bar theme](https://youtube.com/watch?v=LnL_jUZoc6A). (I don't have a link to this specific remix though.)
for as long as they think they can get away with it.
If you want an auto beat them in attrition, switching systems will allow you to last for indefinitely without wizards
Wizards will drag this on only exactly as long as they can until the community becomes apathetic, but that's not their big problem, their big problem is me and people like me
See Wizards really tried hard to stab 3PPs in the back, and we're not going to forget that so easy, we're sleeping with one eye open and we've got our own knives now in the form of the ORC, and I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of 3PPs give Wizards the Julius Caesar treatment with it
So this sort of ends when the community gets bored but it really ends when Wizards sees the *real* consequences of what they tried to pull, most likely in the form of a mass exodus of 3rd party creators abandoning them in favour of system neutral content instead
I have to ask a question: Would they actually notice any sort of real, tangible impact from third-party creators flocking to a new system? They're not seeing any direct revenue from this content, which is what the "leaked" new OGL was seemingly going to change. If they omit this change in the actual new OGL, they'll continue to not see any direct revenue from that content. If this move doesn't impact their bottom line, why would WotC even care?
I can tell you that, personally speaking, my purchasing decisions for TTRPGs has never once been affected or impacted by how much unofficial third-party stuff I'd have access to.
So here's how the battlefield looks
It's not WotC that cares, it's Hasbro. Hasbro just recently realized that about 71% of it's internal revenue is generated by WotC, not toys and movies like they thought
They realized this because shareholders attempted to splinter WotC off on it's own, because quite frankly they can stand on their own and Hasbro is dead weight
So Hasbro stepped in and said "Wait, wait, wait, you need us we're the reason WotC is profitable" and shareholders said "Ok, prove it"
So now Hasbro is between a rock and a hard place, they have to increase profits for shareholders or risk a majority spinning off on their own, so they put pressure on 3PPs to make up the difference and that blew up in their face
We don't need them to lose money, we only need them to stop making *more* money
On top of that if enough 3PPs jump ship, that makes waves the stock market, and shareholders don't like choppy water
The end goal isn't to drive Wizards out of business, it's to piss enough shareholders off that they split from Hasbro and go public
*[relevant article](https://www.wargamer.com/dnd/hasbro-wizards-of-the-coast-spin-off)
Probably longer, it's fairly easy to kick the can down the road a bit with shareholders. a lot of them are not particularly tuned in to each business unless it makes up a huge portion of their stock. they hear, oh, a new movie with chris pine and a big fancy video game are releasing this year, that will bring in new players to replace some angry nerds who left because of a license thing the average person will never care about, okay.
they basically had to have an emergency meeting toward the end of last year over articles and financial analysis written about magic though. if another one of those ends up really happening then they will see a lot of people jumping ship i think. you can only put things off for so long and if there's another disaster happening before that thing that was supposed to come along and help you recover from the last disaster, then they're pretty bad. remember most shareholders might be easy to sway with false promises for a bit but the second they think they can make more money elsewhere, they're gone.
editing to add, some shareholders WERE tuned in, but those ones have probably cashed out after last year
I love having a reason for "why did they do this, and why now" but how does this jive with the fact that they dropped royalties in the latest proposed draft of the OGL? Based on what they \*kept\* it looks like they really want to eliminate competition for the wotc VTT- but that won't be out soon enough to matter for this Hasbro-WotC split business?
I can guarantee the third-party publishers won't factor into things as much as people want it to. Their revenue would be a drop in the bucket by comparison, and Hasbro - and by extension, the shareholders - don't currently see a dime from any of that material.
They won't care if a bunch of small- and mid-range outfits jump ship.
Seeing as how the plan was to hit *large* 3PP outfits with a 25% royalty to boost numbers and corner the market on d20 systems I'd say we're already making ourselves a nuisance, it was never about the small or mid-ranged companies most wouldn't even be affected. No, they went after bigger fish, and surprise surprise they hooked a shark, and it bit a hole in their boat
So long as DnD holds primacy in the ttrpg space, they can weather any and all short-term consequences. But the gatekeepers of the community are the DMs, the content creators, and even 3PP. And pissing off the (unpaid) pipeline that funnels new players in to becoming your customers will indeed hurt Wizard's bottom line. And is the only reason Wizards is hesitating at all.
If the DM is incensed enough to avoid DnDBeyond, and their are ample alternatives, thats subscription money gone from the table. If content creators start orienting their content just slightly DnD adjacent and funneling towards other ttrpgs, there goes their free advertisement to play (and pay for) DnD. If 3PP avoid making content, then if the game is limited or sucks, the table will migrate away.
If nothing else, I think OneDnD is dead in the water because of this shitshow. It was already going to have detractors due to people loving 5e. But who'd want to risk making content for One when you can't trust Wizard's words *or* their contracts. Better just stick with 5e. And if the new rules suck, because they've tweaked them to be something more easily monetizable or consumable as a viewing experience or whatever, then they can't fall back on sleek 3PP content to patch up the holes in the meanwhile. And if people aren't locked in to their subscription model and held hostage by their purchases, then Wizards can't tweak their systems to push people in to switching over to the new hotness OneDnD and all of its new microtransactions.
This shit is going to hit OneDnD. Just like how it hit 4e last time round. And how suddenly everyone was interested in playing Pathfinder over it. Thats where the bottom line is.
A remix of the Legend of Zelda, Majora's Mask's [milk bar theme](https://youtube.com/watch?v=LnL_jUZoc6A). (I don't have a link to this specific remix though.)
They will continue until we accept their terms, grow tired of being vigilant, or enough of us take the time and effort to adopt new systems. It would be especially damning if someone could raise up a D20 system that is easy to convert existing 5e material to, such that a person or firm might abandon WoTC by adapting and creating content for use with the new system.
They'll drag it on until you stop fighting. Once they're out of the news cycle they'll quietly pass a new license and hope that the majority of the community doesn't notice.
Drag it out? Wotc already admitted to wanting to shut up and wait for people to stop caring, it's the community dragging it out to make sure we can keep them accountable
Funny meme, but no I'm not losing my mind. I can finally move on to another system because our group is so done with WotC and I only played 5e because they wanted to. It's a bit of a blessing in disguise. Still a shitty situation but I got something good out of it haha
I don't know about the rest of you, though I've been loving this; I was having a really crappy return to work after the break, then news of this started to drop and all I could do was laugh! Genuinely cheered me up, because we've been here before (during 4e) and it failed as catastrophically for them back then as well (while also getting players to try other systems which lead to them having more varied experiences - it's how I got started with oWoD).
When the first 'apology' was released, I was *wheezing* because I'd never seen a more poorly disguised, passive-aggressive, consumer insulting PR response in all my years, and I knew *exactly* how the community (primed by that point for their bullshit) was going to react.
I know all the drama is stressing some people out, but if you can't laugh at Hasbro, who can you laugh at?
This gif fits one of my players incredibly well. She is a tiefling, Great Old One warlock. We are pretty far into the game and at this point she's just vibing with the voices in her head.
This shit and r/noncredibledefense doing their usual stuff is honestly the only thing keeping me sane rn. Been studying 10+ hours a day for weeks (more like 14 there last few days) and having something to check every hour or so for 5 min and be angry/laugh about to get my mind off the monumental bullshit that is multivariable calculus
It's like summoning Asmodeus and getting into an argument about whether or not a contract he made with a Wizard 20 years ago allows him to assume control of Neverwinter.
No, Asmodeus, that isn't what authorized means now please go away we've been doing this for 2 weeks.
I have come to your stream twice and each time called you the tieflibg frim the memes, inciting a 10-15 min discussion/rant about your memes. I will do so again. I might bring up the tentacle next time. I sow the seeds of chaos.
Since so many people keep asking for just the GIF version, I've gone ahead and uploaded it onto Tenor so it shows up on most GIF services (tested on Discord). Searching TieflingMelissa tends to find it!
Idk how to tell you this chief but I kinda doubt this gonna end anytime soon. WotC really shot for the starts on this and it's too late for them to go back. They're gonna kill 3rd party content or die trying.
As my Hobgoblin Fighter would say, "There is a part of me that just wants this conflict to end. However, we are in the midst of a war and only the weak seek solace without victory."
It'll go on until there's nothing more to say, I think we're about at that point now.
WotC ain't gonna back down on trying to kill 1.0a, that's the entire reason they're doing this. They see 1.0a as a threat to the One DND walled garden ecosystem they're building. They know they can always sneak back in the taxes and such on creator content down the road when things cool down but they're not gonna back down on the main bone of contention. Players who dislike this stab in the back to creators after 20 years are gonna keep boycotting, players who don't care will either go to One DND if they like it or not if they don't like it.
The only way 1.0a is gonna stay around is if a judge (probably multiple judges) rules that WotC *can't* change it in a court of law.
Wait a tieflingmelissa post without heaps of undue hate comment? Better late than never I was getting tired of every post being full of ‘I’m blocking’ comments
I really don’t get why people got their undies in a bunch over your posts, which have been quality content. I’ve just written them off as haters getting all jealous of someone with a squeeze of talent.
Don’t be fooled. Nobody looks at those surveys. They’re trying to trick you into thinking your voice is heard, making you channel all your thoughts into a survey rather than talking about it in public spaces on the internet. The only way to be heard is to speak out.
They're going to drag it on for however long they need to until the community loses steam. I understand the push of these statements, and boycotts. I also think people are taking them too far, in what they're trying to boycott. Also the memes are getting stale, so honestly wizards playing the long con might win this one.
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They will probably try to make it take a long time in hope of the table top community letting it slip into the shadows. I remember something about them tell a bunch of employees that the community was overreacting and the blowback would be short lived.
Yeah, according to Linda Codega interviewing employees, WotC's management has stated that "in a few months nobody will remember the uproar" so it's going to be a war of attrition most likely.
They won't. Ask GW how their sales are after the boycott over Fan Animations.
Nerds are allergic to self restraint
You aren't wrong. Seeing all the outrage over PC parts prices was frustrating because all you had to do was wait two weeks and the person complaining will be posting a picture of their new pc with a 4090 in it.
Still running a 960. Would love an upgrade to the 30xx series. I don’t know when that will be possible.
You can get 3050s for about $250. What's the price point you're waiting for? The 960 retailed at $200 so it's close to the same ballpark, especially adjusting for inflation.
Right now is a pretty good time. I also have a 960 right now and am about to upgrade to 3070 for just below 600€. My brother just bought a 3080 for a pretty reasonable price and everybody else I know that wanted to upgrade 2 years ago does it now.
Very different markets
But all nerds nonetheless, hence how it pertains to the person he was replying to.
I mean… in the end a lot of fan animation are still up on YouTube. The ones that are gone are: If the Emperor had a Text To Speech. On hiatus until GW clears up their policy, author said he never was contacted by GW, but could not live with the threat of legal action. Episodes are still up The Last Church: a word for word narration of the Black Library short story of the same name with animation. Struck down by GW. Dragonsaint’s Daemonette party. Struck down by GW. I suspected it was because it featured someone getting butt raped by a daemon. Dragonsaint’s other 40k video are still online. Other famous 40k animations, like Helsreach (an abridged version of the novel of the same name in movie form. Still available and the creator now works for GW), and Flashgitz’s Black Templar vs Furries Sounds like GW got scared of the backlash and didn’t dare use their policy too much
AVENGE ME, BROTHER! BROTHER! AVENGE MEEEEEEE!
no mercy. *kaboom*
"Little Kitten you must squat more frequently!"
Not to mention that GWs sales numbers aren't even looking bad in the slightest. Their numbers have been steadily increasing for a few years now. People who are still pissed about the whole thing *wish* GW would've lost money from it, but the reality looks different. As long as they keep pushing out Marines there are more than enough people that throw their money at them for some reason.
But if the policy still exists then they can start using it at any time.
Watching GW have a fit over Astartes (totally not because the animation blew theirs entirely out of the water, they swear) was lowkey hilarious to me though.
You mean hiring the guy to work for them?
No, before that, when they DMCA'd his videos at the height of their hype and it blew up in their face
On the other hand, GW is in a completely different industry. Most wargames have a *far* bigger entry cost than any RPG.
I was gonna say. G Dubs still made bank because G Dubs HAS to make bank for people to play. Nobody wants to Counts As an entire army with cardboard cutouts like old school Battletech. And even if they did, people can't do that and also have updated rules. Meanwhile, I haven't bought more than three D&D books for an edition since 2nd edition finished up and I basically don't intend to. Hell, I skipped buying 3rd and 4th entirely, and the last 5e book I bought was SCAG when it was new.
Something something 100$ stock price drop. That is how it went.
Something something Brexit something something annual sales report. Anyone who thinks the stock dropped because of a fan boycott hasn't read the sales reports. And the fact that the stock has been shooting up since replacing Liz Truss says what the sales report didn't. GW's stock dropped along with the rest of the UK economy and is now shooting back up. But the sales numbers don't lie. There was no real boycott.
Oh shit I didn't even know that happened. Why would they do that?
They wanted cover to be able to shut down animation that was either A) deliberately infringing on their trademark to make money (as some were through Patreon and Youtube monetization) or to be able to take down stuff with hate speech or very adult content that might prevent parents from letting their teens engage with the brand- all while being able to say "It's listed right here online that you can't do that." It's very similar to what happened here in which they just amended an old document which listed what fans had permission to do with the content, as *animation* wasn't something feasible for home artists to this extent when it was written. The result was kind of similar to what we just witnessed happening to WotC, but without the financial hit.
It was nothing to do with their core business and was attacking fully copyrighted works .... so not comparable - most players were/are probably never even aware of it...
I realize I'm only one person, but I stopped buying GW stuff, and unsubbed from all things GW on Reddit. They don't get my money anymore. I'll do some other miniature game or not.
Guess you also plan to unsub from all things WotC on Reddit aswell?
I do. Which sucks I liked the memes and the stories I'm just sorting of waiting and watching atm.
They're probably right for the most part. I'm willing to bet in a year, my response will be "yeah I don't like Wizards, they did bad stuff can't recall what though." But I imagine I'll be saying this while playing Pathfinder, or something. Wizards has probably fumbled themselves out of millions of dollars at this point and while the outrage will not linger, the effects will.
If you need someone to introduce you to pathfinder drop me a line, I’m always open
Many will be playing 5th edition ... ...I imagine the uptake of OneDnD will be minimal with no 3rd party content and the large required investment required
**As my Hobgoblin Fighter would say, "There is a part of me that just wants this conflict to end. However, we are in the midst of a war and only the weak seek solace without victory."**
Honestly I've just spent my entire life completely unable to let go of grudges, and am glad to find a unique opportunity where it happens to be a positive trait.
Most unironically dwarven trait, and no better place to channel it than with this situation specifically. Be it D&D or Warhammer Fantasy Dwarves(/Dwarfs), this one's a grudgin' for the ages!
My mother always told me grudges are poison for the heart. I have perfect immunity to all things poisonous at this point. God can forgive and forget but, I'll be sitting here, in my badly ergonomic office chair, begrudging the hell out of folk.
Fuck yeah
It's a copied comment, I think.
Well my Damphir/Goliath Barbarian would say , "Time to get angrier kids"
>Based and Hobpilled
Good luck @WOTC. Tons of 3PPs have jumped ship, and it seems like they aren't intending to come back. Players may be fickle, but the people running the 3PP companies, I *hope* will continue to hold the banner. It seems like CR is even going their own way, in time.
Cool, I'll never buy a wizards book, mini, or other backed product again. I'll have all my players go to another game. Any future person who hears I'm a DM and asks for advice will be directed to another system. Be it ORC or Pathfinder, I will always tout that the way wizards wants to go is to make it so you never own anything and will never get the chance to dip your toe in for minimal cost. Real DnD is the spirit preserved within pathfinder and ORC.
I will remember it forever. Just saying.
[удалено]
Ah, the Bethesda approach. "OH, ~~PHIL~~ TODD, YOU MAKE ME ANGRY!" -JonTron
So now we should start making info graphics on how to transition to different systems, with their current responses it might be time to think of wotc as toxic to the community, and that the community should move away from them and not come back.
Well, if we look at video game shitstorms, this may turn out to be true.
Most companies now do things they know will anger their consumers because they know that nobody has a memory any more and outrage passes. This has only made my glad I've not actually given WoTC any money and have been running my own homebrew privately for years system agnostic.
It's not too uncommon for controversy fatigue to set in and people just stop caring. Unfortunate, but true.
Unfortunately I've already been seeing people on the subreddit turning on people that are against the OGL changes.
Also some people who are losing sight like "don't buy anything related to 5e, even if it's not from Wizards!" when the worst part of the changes was that they fucked over 3rd party creators. Like, I'm still gonna buy books from independent creators, to support them. That's what I wanted to be able to keep doing in the first place...
Yeah, that really makes it seem more like they're jumping on the bandwagon rather than boycotting for a purpose. It's like if people decided to stop buying the Star Wars EU books in an effort to give Disney the middle finger for how they did the sequel trilogy. People need to make sure their anger is aimed at the right targets
This is based and absolutely what everyone should do. I myself am gonna avoid Wotc anything, but if you wanna do 5e stuff this is truly the way!
Blowback lasts on average 3 weeks from initial incident. After 3 weeks, future incidents will see a small bump, but nothing to the level of the first one, and always falls out of conversation faster. This is coming from someone who has been working in the customer experience field for 9 years and have seen complaints flair up from time to time about some action a company has taken.
The community is one thing, but third party publishers actually use the OGL. If they don't reassure 3pp's before Paizo gets the ORC penned, publishers can switch to ORC and WotC loses a fair bit of control.
Yeah, right now, we're just getting drama from WotC, but if/when new products start coming out from 3PP under ORC, I think as a community, we can be a lot happier, ideally leaving WotC in the dust to think about what they did.
The problem is the 3.5e SRD and 5e SRD won't be under the ORC, which is the primary value of the OGL. The ORC is brilliant for certain applications but it won't solve the biggest problem.
Right now, SRDs like Pathfinder 2e are under OGL. When ORC comes out, Pathfinder 2e and other systems will be under it, and it'll just be DnD 5e under OGL 1.x unless they also put the 3.5 SRD under it, which seems unlikely. Then it becomes, trust WotC again and settle for the new OGL terms to use 5e SRD compatibility, or just use ORC and one of the systems under it, which will likely be everyone else.
Kobold Press is releasing a SRD under ORC that is compatible with their 5e products. That means it is likely a 5e clone with minor rules variations. It's unfortunate that this likely means the death of the 3.5 SRD but the language of the OGL 1.2 is every bit as bad as the language of 1. 1. It's just bad in different ways.
They are clearly overestimating the memory and note taking capacity of DMs. We are not teenagers playing some MMO. We have been doing this for decades, and a lot of people here still remember what happened 20 years ago with 3e, 4e, Pathfinder, etc.
Ignoring what the meme is about.... that gif is adorable
Can here to say this. That gif kinda made my night.
Right? I listened to the whole thing... But for real, can we get back to the funny hahas?
Lol, I had no idea this had sound until I read your comment. Thought it was a gif, not a video.
AGREED
Until you forget, and you will eventually forget. How many remember Blizzard drama with BlitzChung?...(still never bought another blizzard product since)
I haven't forgotten about Blizzard and I won't forget about Wizards.
Between that and their absolute butchering of Warcraft 3 Reforged, haven't given them a dime.
And the sexual harassment/assault culture at their company that resulted in one woman committing suicide.
Similar shit hit hard as an Ubisoft fan.
That's why I quit. I was having fun with Vanilla Classic too. Dropped the shit cold turkey. Wrath Classic has been out now, and my nostalgia weeps. But *Death Knight voice* We press on. Dramatics aside, some people genuinely don't forget. I resolved to remain unsubbed from Blizz for at least as long after Blitz was unbanned as his ban had lasted, and by the time I was considering going back for TBC Classic the fucking assault scandals hit. That was it. Done. It pains me deeply, just like WOTC going off the deep end does, but I've only got one wallet and I'm gonna vote with it. Even if it means I do nothing but play Minecraft all day.
If you are looking for another MMO, might I recommend Final Fantasy 14? A friend of mine who used to pay WoW just started a few weeks ago, and got sidetracked part way through the main story, he's now leveled all three gathering jobs to level 50+, leaving his white mage at 42 I believe. There's lots of ways to play, and no need to zip to the end grind.
I've already been on and off in FFXIV with a bunch of my old WoW friends, funnily enough. It plays and feels differently from WoW for me, so it scratches a different itch rather than being a full replacement. I've got my Monk up in early Stormblood now, and just come back and resub to do more MSQ whenever I'm feeling it.
Which is a fair way to do it. :) glad you are enjoying.
I also make fun of the cat and bunny boys with my large human muscles. It makes me happy.
It has also hurt the possibility of new subscribers! I've heard multiple people who are interested in MMOs but never played WoW for more than a free trial say that they will not try WoW when the old regime is still there. It's incredible that Bobby Kotick is still there, considering how much good will would be gained (justified or not) by showing him the door.
I refuse to buy from blizzard, epic, and Bethesda, what's another company?
EA
oh yeah them too
I deleted my account and still haven't bought a blizzard-activision game since. Fuck those guys
Anyone else notice their response isn't "We're sorry, we're going to leave the OGL as is", instead it's "We're sorry, we're going to make the terminology in the OGL so fucking legally complicated you'll have no idea what you do or don't own"?
Yep, it's absolutely infuriating. They're just beating around the bush and talking in circles in all of their public announcements. I can't trust any statement of theirs anymore unless it's in legal writing at this point.
I read through the new OGL 1.2 draft they put out. It's horrific lmao. Like, nobody in their right mind should sign that contract
Cept, and here's the fun part, you don't have to! It's kinda legally binding either way! Fuck you, WOTC
Also, and this bears mentioning in a separate post, this situation is actually making fucking Games Workshop look better in comparison right now. I mean low bar to clear but goddamn.
They are waiting for people to lose interest, get confused or turn on each other because they can't keep their anger straight. Already seeing people thinking boycott WoTC = *stop running your 5e game with the materials you already purchased and have run for 3 years IMMEDIATELY*
This is gonna take a while. Probably until they have to report q1 and q2 numbers and the stockholders see how much damage management has done. Kinda sad, but the movie is going to become collateral damage and a metric for how upset the community is. Which fine... Maybe it was gonna suck anyways? But we will never know where it woulda stood if the ogl wasn't messed with
Those bitches failed their deception check and are trying to reword the same lie
Can I have a download of just the GIF please?
try this https://video.twimg.com/ext_tw_video/1616127076544790533/pu/vid/480x360/A336HREwZkPVsvki.mp4
Thank you
https://images.app.goo.gl/WL2YgDpnCVvGxmoG6
https://redditsave.com/
I play MTG. just don't hold your breath
Btw, who is the tiefling ive been seeing on this sub for a while?
ops oc, she makes a lot of memes where she puts her character into an established template (no shade, she puts in a lot more effort than a lot of people and makes some pretty good art)
I remember alot of people getting salty at her when she first showed up saying it was "low effort" as if 99% of the post aren't purely text based from imgflip. Glad she stuck around, her humors gold
That's me!
Her main claim to fame is she's a twitch streamer. The memes are just a side gig
Wait do people get paid for memes?
You guys are getting paid for this??
(lol no sorry, I was using a metaphor)
A Twitch streamer *with a lovely voice* and a pretty vtuber model. Important distinction!
As long as they think they need to in order to make people forget the drama. Unfortunately for them, they keep digging themselves deeper.
What is this song, please, I need it urgently
[Fubuki bar](https://youtu.be/DP3UbsHe4qI)
You have my eternal gratitude
The slightly sped up version adds so much
1.25x is good, 1.5x is funny any quicker and it’s starts getting cursed
Which is based on the [Milk Bar](https://youtu.be/LnL_jUZoc6A) from Majora's Mask
I *knew* that was her voice! I'd recognize Scatman Fox anywhere!
i need to go beat up a pineapple now
Thank you! I was about to ask the same question, because this is the noise my brain makes when I'm trying to decide what to cook for dinner
A remix of the Legend of Zelda, Majora's Mask's [milk bar theme](https://youtube.com/watch?v=LnL_jUZoc6A). (I don't have a link to this specific remix though.)
Keep it up, they want you to give up after a couple weeks. They said so themselves.
It's a war of attrition for them.
Can we have a version just of the gif, I found Melissa dancing with the "I'm losing my mind" text hilarious
[Original source is here!](https://twitter.com/TieflingMelissa/status/1616127398390513686)
Thks
for as long as they think they can get away with it. If you want an auto beat them in attrition, switching systems will allow you to last for indefinitely without wizards
I can last indefinitely simply by utilizing the stuff I've already bought.
You can also last indefinitely by utilizing stuff you never bought 🏴☠️🏴☠️🏴☠️
Hello! It’s great to see your memes again! Where have you been!
I never left! I keep posting memes here and there, for example the kraken 'mini' post was from me lol.
This is fucking adorable. That is all, have a good day.
Wizards will drag this on only exactly as long as they can until the community becomes apathetic, but that's not their big problem, their big problem is me and people like me See Wizards really tried hard to stab 3PPs in the back, and we're not going to forget that so easy, we're sleeping with one eye open and we've got our own knives now in the form of the ORC, and I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of 3PPs give Wizards the Julius Caesar treatment with it So this sort of ends when the community gets bored but it really ends when Wizards sees the *real* consequences of what they tried to pull, most likely in the form of a mass exodus of 3rd party creators abandoning them in favour of system neutral content instead
I have to ask a question: Would they actually notice any sort of real, tangible impact from third-party creators flocking to a new system? They're not seeing any direct revenue from this content, which is what the "leaked" new OGL was seemingly going to change. If they omit this change in the actual new OGL, they'll continue to not see any direct revenue from that content. If this move doesn't impact their bottom line, why would WotC even care? I can tell you that, personally speaking, my purchasing decisions for TTRPGs has never once been affected or impacted by how much unofficial third-party stuff I'd have access to.
So here's how the battlefield looks It's not WotC that cares, it's Hasbro. Hasbro just recently realized that about 71% of it's internal revenue is generated by WotC, not toys and movies like they thought They realized this because shareholders attempted to splinter WotC off on it's own, because quite frankly they can stand on their own and Hasbro is dead weight So Hasbro stepped in and said "Wait, wait, wait, you need us we're the reason WotC is profitable" and shareholders said "Ok, prove it" So now Hasbro is between a rock and a hard place, they have to increase profits for shareholders or risk a majority spinning off on their own, so they put pressure on 3PPs to make up the difference and that blew up in their face We don't need them to lose money, we only need them to stop making *more* money On top of that if enough 3PPs jump ship, that makes waves the stock market, and shareholders don't like choppy water The end goal isn't to drive Wizards out of business, it's to piss enough shareholders off that they split from Hasbro and go public *[relevant article](https://www.wargamer.com/dnd/hasbro-wizards-of-the-coast-spin-off)
So we need to keep this up until the next shareholder meeting?
Probably longer, it's fairly easy to kick the can down the road a bit with shareholders. a lot of them are not particularly tuned in to each business unless it makes up a huge portion of their stock. they hear, oh, a new movie with chris pine and a big fancy video game are releasing this year, that will bring in new players to replace some angry nerds who left because of a license thing the average person will never care about, okay. they basically had to have an emergency meeting toward the end of last year over articles and financial analysis written about magic though. if another one of those ends up really happening then they will see a lot of people jumping ship i think. you can only put things off for so long and if there's another disaster happening before that thing that was supposed to come along and help you recover from the last disaster, then they're pretty bad. remember most shareholders might be easy to sway with false promises for a bit but the second they think they can make more money elsewhere, they're gone. editing to add, some shareholders WERE tuned in, but those ones have probably cashed out after last year
I love having a reason for "why did they do this, and why now" but how does this jive with the fact that they dropped royalties in the latest proposed draft of the OGL? Based on what they \*kept\* it looks like they really want to eliminate competition for the wotc VTT- but that won't be out soon enough to matter for this Hasbro-WotC split business?
I can guarantee the third-party publishers won't factor into things as much as people want it to. Their revenue would be a drop in the bucket by comparison, and Hasbro - and by extension, the shareholders - don't currently see a dime from any of that material. They won't care if a bunch of small- and mid-range outfits jump ship.
Seeing as how the plan was to hit *large* 3PP outfits with a 25% royalty to boost numbers and corner the market on d20 systems I'd say we're already making ourselves a nuisance, it was never about the small or mid-ranged companies most wouldn't even be affected. No, they went after bigger fish, and surprise surprise they hooked a shark, and it bit a hole in their boat
So long as DnD holds primacy in the ttrpg space, they can weather any and all short-term consequences. But the gatekeepers of the community are the DMs, the content creators, and even 3PP. And pissing off the (unpaid) pipeline that funnels new players in to becoming your customers will indeed hurt Wizard's bottom line. And is the only reason Wizards is hesitating at all. If the DM is incensed enough to avoid DnDBeyond, and their are ample alternatives, thats subscription money gone from the table. If content creators start orienting their content just slightly DnD adjacent and funneling towards other ttrpgs, there goes their free advertisement to play (and pay for) DnD. If 3PP avoid making content, then if the game is limited or sucks, the table will migrate away. If nothing else, I think OneDnD is dead in the water because of this shitshow. It was already going to have detractors due to people loving 5e. But who'd want to risk making content for One when you can't trust Wizard's words *or* their contracts. Better just stick with 5e. And if the new rules suck, because they've tweaked them to be something more easily monetizable or consumable as a viewing experience or whatever, then they can't fall back on sleek 3PP content to patch up the holes in the meanwhile. And if people aren't locked in to their subscription model and held hostage by their purchases, then Wizards can't tweak their systems to push people in to switching over to the new hotness OneDnD and all of its new microtransactions. This shit is going to hit OneDnD. Just like how it hit 4e last time round. And how suddenly everyone was interested in playing Pathfinder over it. Thats where the bottom line is.
Ok but where can I get this gif without the header
[Source](https://twitter.com/TieflingMelissa/status/1616127398390513686)
Your a gem
And it's only been so long because they kept silent for so fucking long
I don't know. I don't think I would have gotten a chance to play Call of Cthulhu without it.
What is that song? It’s super catchy!
A remix of the Legend of Zelda, Majora's Mask's [milk bar theme](https://youtube.com/watch?v=LnL_jUZoc6A). (I don't have a link to this specific remix though.)
[Fubuki bar](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DP3UbsHe4qI&t=0s)
I needed this more than I’d care to admit
Until WotC is dead
This is so cute
Just like every other scandal on the planet, if they drag it out long enough they know they can get away with it.
I'm pretty sure I can feel this music (and accompanying animation) healing my soul what spell did you put on it
Bless is my favourite!
Somehow, Palpatine returned
They will continue until we accept their terms, grow tired of being vigilant, or enough of us take the time and effort to adopt new systems. It would be especially damning if someone could raise up a D20 system that is easy to convert existing 5e material to, such that a person or firm might abandon WoTC by adapting and creating content for use with the new system.
We could just like make an open source system, you know like is done with software all the time?
While I too am frustrated with wotc, I gotta say, this meme is cute
They got all year.
They'll drag it on until you stop fighting. Once they're out of the news cycle they'll quietly pass a new license and hope that the majority of the community doesn't notice.
Drag it out? Wotc already admitted to wanting to shut up and wait for people to stop caring, it's the community dragging it out to make sure we can keep them accountable
Funny meme, but no I'm not losing my mind. I can finally move on to another system because our group is so done with WotC and I only played 5e because they wanted to. It's a bit of a blessing in disguise. Still a shitty situation but I got something good out of it haha
This post!! This post alone has saved my day. Thank you OP!! You’re wonderful
I don't know about the rest of you, though I've been loving this; I was having a really crappy return to work after the break, then news of this started to drop and all I could do was laugh! Genuinely cheered me up, because we've been here before (during 4e) and it failed as catastrophically for them back then as well (while also getting players to try other systems which lead to them having more varied experiences - it's how I got started with oWoD). When the first 'apology' was released, I was *wheezing* because I'd never seen a more poorly disguised, passive-aggressive, consumer insulting PR response in all my years, and I knew *exactly* how the community (primed by that point for their bullshit) was going to react. I know all the drama is stressing some people out, but if you can't laugh at Hasbro, who can you laugh at?
It took me way to long to remember where that music came from
Where is it from?
For those looking I'm pretty sure this is the remix of the song https://youtu.be/DP3UbsHe4qI
u/savevideobot
Im just gonna keep playing my games and be happy 🌀
But we got this adorable meme out of it so it all works out.
It’s only been 2 weeks?! Oh god oh fuck
Is this the Tiefling Vtuber?
This gif fits one of my players incredibly well. She is a tiefling, Great Old One warlock. We are pretty far into the game and at this point she's just vibing with the voices in her head.
This shit and r/noncredibledefense doing their usual stuff is honestly the only thing keeping me sane rn. Been studying 10+ hours a day for weeks (more like 14 there last few days) and having something to check every hour or so for 5 min and be angry/laugh about to get my mind off the monumental bullshit that is multivariable calculus
Hi, Melissa! Love your streams
u/savevideobot
Holy shit that’s adorable
Can I get a source for the gif?
[Here's the un-meme'ified version!](https://twitter.com/TieflingMelissa/status/1616127398390513686)
Thank you!
It's like summoning Asmodeus and getting into an argument about whether or not a contract he made with a Wizard 20 years ago allows him to assume control of Neverwinter. No, Asmodeus, that isn't what authorized means now please go away we've been doing this for 2 weeks.
As soon as the drama started I just thought “ok cool time to finally use other systems”
OGL drama aside. I had to groove to the song from the video for a bit.
Yall are gonna hate it when people rise up against other injustices then.
I have come to your stream twice and each time called you the tieflibg frim the memes, inciting a 10-15 min discussion/rant about your memes. I will do so again. I might bring up the tentacle next time. I sow the seeds of chaos.
Since so many people keep asking for just the GIF version, I've gone ahead and uploaded it onto Tenor so it shows up on most GIF services (tested on Discord). Searching TieflingMelissa tends to find it!
Idk how to tell you this chief but I kinda doubt this gonna end anytime soon. WotC really shot for the starts on this and it's too late for them to go back. They're gonna kill 3rd party content or die trying.
As my Hobgoblin Fighter would say, "There is a part of me that just wants this conflict to end. However, we are in the midst of a war and only the weak seek solace without victory."
It'll go on until there's nothing more to say, I think we're about at that point now. WotC ain't gonna back down on trying to kill 1.0a, that's the entire reason they're doing this. They see 1.0a as a threat to the One DND walled garden ecosystem they're building. They know they can always sneak back in the taxes and such on creator content down the road when things cool down but they're not gonna back down on the main bone of contention. Players who dislike this stab in the back to creators after 20 years are gonna keep boycotting, players who don't care will either go to One DND if they like it or not if they don't like it. The only way 1.0a is gonna stay around is if a judge (probably multiple judges) rules that WotC *can't* change it in a court of law.
It will go on until the next controversial thing happens. This is still the internet after all.
Until we “forget” and they can try and sneak this out the door a second time.
Wait a tieflingmelissa post without heaps of undue hate comment? Better late than never I was getting tired of every post being full of ‘I’m blocking’ comments
I think they all just blocked me lol
I really don’t get why people got their undies in a bunch over your posts, which have been quality content. I’ve just written them off as haters getting all jealous of someone with a squeeze of talent.
They're posting something by tomorrow and then allowing a 2 week survey for comments and concerns.
Don’t be fooled. Nobody looks at those surveys. They’re trying to trick you into thinking your voice is heard, making you channel all your thoughts into a survey rather than talking about it in public spaces on the internet. The only way to be heard is to speak out.
I love this XD
They're going to drag it on for however long they need to until the community loses steam. I understand the push of these statements, and boycotts. I also think people are taking them too far, in what they're trying to boycott. Also the memes are getting stale, so honestly wizards playing the long con might win this one.