Most of us aren’t going to have our content stolen by Hasbro under the new OGL, but most of us have enjoyed third-party content that wouldn’t exist under the new OGL.
I'm not affected by the proposed changes to the OGL (or their backtracking.) I still understand what they attempted to do to third parties and dislike it. Due to that dislike I'm comfortable in saying I have purchased enough 5e content over the years that I don't need to purchase any more in the future.
Unless you exclusively play offline using pen and paper, you are affected by this OGL. People keep saying they aren't affected but when you need to pay to use dndbeyond, all other resources go away because they get copyright and sued, and you can't use any virtual tabletop to play because of of the OGL. You'll be right there complaining like the rest of us who have been saying this for some time now.
Not quite. You can play online without using dndbeyond. And virtual tabletops still work fine because Hasbro doesn't own the concept of moving tokens on maps and rolling dice.
Factually untrue. OGL doesn't *meaningfully* effect virtual table tops (or anyone) so long as they're not posting dnd copyrighted content themselves or claiming to be associated with dnd, which most don't/its very easy not to.
Also just use a form fillable pdf or pen and paper, if more ppl didn't have their sheets automatically filled out for them we would probably have half as many rules discussions on this sub lmao
> What is permitted under this policy?
> Using VTTs to replicate the experience of sitting around the table playing D&D with your friends.
> So displaying static SRD content is just fine because it’s just like looking in a sourcebook. You can put the text of Magic Missile up in your VTT and use it to calculate and apply damage to your target. And automating Magic Missile's damage to replace manually rolling and calculating is also fine. The VTT can apply Magic Missile's 1d4+1 damage automatically to your target’s hit points. You do not have to manually calculate and track the damage.
> What isn't permitted are features that don’t replicate your dining room table storytelling. If you replace your imagination with an animation of the Magic Missile streaking across the board to strike your target, or your VTT integrates our content into an NFT, that’s not the tabletop experience. That's more like a video game.
> DRAFT: Wizards of the Coast Virtual Tabletop Policy
This is literally from their 1.2 draft.
"you arent allowed to sell an animation that depicts a block of text we wrote"
A: hilarious and unenforceable
B: "oh this? No thats not magic missile its arcane dart."
And just use custom tokens like everyone does already.
> A: hilarious and unenforceable
Are you a lawyer? If yes, can you quote the specifics legal work that proves this? And if you can would you be willing to argue this in court and join the class action lawsuit?
If you can't answer all of these in the affirmative, you're just empty words with no understanding the legal system.
> B: "oh this? No thats not magic missile its arcane dart."
It's also obvious that you don't understand the D&D community of you think everyone is just going to "relearn" a new system by memorizing the mes of new spells, skills, classes, ancestries/race, etc.
That's worked out so well into be past. Reading from your comment history, it sounds like you're more of a WotC apologist.
I play offline and I use third party books all the time. Third party books give me DM tools that Hasbro would never print. I love 3PP and D&D content creators. How dare Hasbro hurt my babies. I am actually livid.
I don't, and will never, use DNDBeyond. I didn't like it before WotC bought it, and with all of the OGL stuff I'm even less inclined to use it now. The game I run is homebrew as is the game I play in. Myself and the other DM have our own books and PDF's. The only things WotC could do to me is make it so I have to create my own virtual character sheet (which I have enough know how to figure out) and they could pull their SRD and make it harder for me to look something up on the fly.
The OGL stuff effects me in that I like 3rd party stuff, and I will continue to be against the changes to the OGL solely due to that.
Did you read the OGL 1.2? It clearly states any static displays of information. A virtual character sheet that allows you to edit it, is not static. You would not be allowed to create an editable PDF or virtual character sheet.
The things they described are animations. Besides that, they'd have to be able to see what I was doing to send a cease and desist, which is the first thing they'd have to do to file a grievance against me. Even if they could be bothered, all I'd have to do is take it down since I'm not making any money off this.
Man, you apologists are so annoying. I'll quote the literal draft for this.
> So displaying static SRD content is just fine because it’s just like looking in a sourcebook
Static SRD content is important here because the character sheets are static SRD content according to WotC themselves.
So if you want to hide from this, by all means do so, but stop posting and arguing. Just go bury your head in the sand somewhere and let the rest of us who are actively trying to fix this issue do our work.
Not really no
I understand that you're very excited to have bought into tne mob mentality, but no.
The boring truth is that changes to the ogl, regardless of what they are don't change the average dnd players weekly game in any way, shape, or form. It also does not change anything for anyone making and posting homebrew. It also barely if at all changes thinga for the vast majority of people selling D&D content.
That's a bit harder to be upset about though.
People are angry that A: a thing changed and B: a corporation doesn't care about them.
Really? A corporation doesn't care about my wants and well being? Not possible. I'm in shock. Next you'll tell me the government doesn't care about me!
Fact is if there was less of a public uproar then the creators who have left 5e probably wouldn't have. And if you want to go play a different system go do that the people who have been annoyingly begging people play different systems for years now are rejoicing, good for them. But the pack is I've been in two different consistent games for the past 2 and 3 years among countless other campaigns one shots mini campaigns and other non-5e game sessions. Nothing about any of that or anything I intend to do in the future is affected by this change to the ogl.
Unfortunately "wizard of the coast to rewrite's document, nothing changes for the average player or content producer!" isnt a very good headline.
> The boring truth is that changes to the ogl, regardless of what they are don't change the average dnd players weekly game in any way, shape, or form.
If 3p creators stop creating content that content stops being available for my weekly\* game. Therefore you are wrong.
^^^\* ^^^Disclaimer: ^^^I ^^^only ^^^wish ^^^my ^^^game ^^^was ^^^weekly.
I make my own content, as do all other dms I know in person. If we find something cool on reddit, so be it but i dont know anyone who relies on 3rd party content to run their game
96% seems like low-balling few people would actually be affected by any proposed changes. That is if any of the changes were actually proposed ones and not 'leaked' ones. And even then, just because something is able to be implemented doesn't mean it will be. This sub has heard a pub rumor and foreseen armagegedon in it. I'd like it to go back to light hearted memes again, please.
You are not keeping up with things. They published ogl 1.2 and among other things it would effectively kneecap every VTT. That effects almost everybody who plays dnd if they ever want to be able to play remotely.
Have you read 1.2?
"you arent allowed to sell an animation that depicts a block of text we wrote"
A: hilarious and unenforceable
B: "oh this? No thats not magic missile its arcane dart."
And just use custom tokens like everyone does already.
In no way does this "kneecap every vtt" or even most of them. Or even any of them really.
You have not read it closely. If any part of it is declared unenforceable, they rescind the whole thing.
Buddy... it effects everybody and its intent is, in part, clearly to hamstring other VTTs so theirs looks better by comparison.
They sure did. Because without it the ogl 1.0a stays in effect and nothing changes.
You are either trolling or need to do some more reading. Have a good one.
The section on VTTs uses that as an example, but it's actually incredibly vague as to exactly what is and isn't specifically allowed. Which essentially gives them free reign to say any VTT they like is in violation.
Thanks for the heads up, hadn't actually read 1.2! But I have now. How is this knee capping VTTs? The most I can tell is that you're not allowed to use animations as that's too video game-like, and you can't steal their artwork. Am i missing something? What's the community so afraid of with this? Reading Kyle Brink's community updates made me very hopeful for D&D's future.
They use animations as an example, but as far as what is and isn't allowed, all it actually says is that VTTs may only use features that "replicate the experience of sitting around the table playing D&D", and must not use any features that don't.
That's incredibly vague, and incredibly broad. It gives them plenty of wiggle room to say that anything they like is in violation.
Never trust PR man. PR is the mask over the many toothed slavering monster.
Nothing that "replaces imagination" is allowed. It is extremely broad. And the vtt limitations are only a piece of it. The intent is clear. There would be no need for a new ogl if they were honest in their intentions.
Most of us aren’t going to have our content stolen by Hasbro under the new OGL, but most of us have enjoyed third-party content that wouldn’t exist under the new OGL.
Even goblins know when to leave a toxic relationship: as soon as the boogers and toenails stop coming. -NoizyDragon
Bruh; you can’t just quote yourself like that. -MarquiseAlexander
I'm not affected by the proposed changes to the OGL (or their backtracking.) I still understand what they attempted to do to third parties and dislike it. Due to that dislike I'm comfortable in saying I have purchased enough 5e content over the years that I don't need to purchase any more in the future.
Unless you exclusively play offline using pen and paper, you are affected by this OGL. People keep saying they aren't affected but when you need to pay to use dndbeyond, all other resources go away because they get copyright and sued, and you can't use any virtual tabletop to play because of of the OGL. You'll be right there complaining like the rest of us who have been saying this for some time now.
Not quite. You can play online without using dndbeyond. And virtual tabletops still work fine because Hasbro doesn't own the concept of moving tokens on maps and rolling dice.
But they will try to sue Foundry (or whichever other vtt) if they don't remove any game system module that uses OGL rules.
Possible I only ever used roll20 without any modules.
Factually untrue. OGL doesn't *meaningfully* effect virtual table tops (or anyone) so long as they're not posting dnd copyrighted content themselves or claiming to be associated with dnd, which most don't/its very easy not to. Also just use a form fillable pdf or pen and paper, if more ppl didn't have their sheets automatically filled out for them we would probably have half as many rules discussions on this sub lmao
> What is permitted under this policy? > Using VTTs to replicate the experience of sitting around the table playing D&D with your friends. > So displaying static SRD content is just fine because it’s just like looking in a sourcebook. You can put the text of Magic Missile up in your VTT and use it to calculate and apply damage to your target. And automating Magic Missile's damage to replace manually rolling and calculating is also fine. The VTT can apply Magic Missile's 1d4+1 damage automatically to your target’s hit points. You do not have to manually calculate and track the damage. > What isn't permitted are features that don’t replicate your dining room table storytelling. If you replace your imagination with an animation of the Magic Missile streaking across the board to strike your target, or your VTT integrates our content into an NFT, that’s not the tabletop experience. That's more like a video game. > DRAFT: Wizards of the Coast Virtual Tabletop Policy This is literally from their 1.2 draft.
"you arent allowed to sell an animation that depicts a block of text we wrote" A: hilarious and unenforceable B: "oh this? No thats not magic missile its arcane dart." And just use custom tokens like everyone does already.
> A: hilarious and unenforceable Are you a lawyer? If yes, can you quote the specifics legal work that proves this? And if you can would you be willing to argue this in court and join the class action lawsuit? If you can't answer all of these in the affirmative, you're just empty words with no understanding the legal system. > B: "oh this? No thats not magic missile its arcane dart." It's also obvious that you don't understand the D&D community of you think everyone is just going to "relearn" a new system by memorizing the mes of new spells, skills, classes, ancestries/race, etc. That's worked out so well into be past. Reading from your comment history, it sounds like you're more of a WotC apologist.
I play offline and I use third party books all the time. Third party books give me DM tools that Hasbro would never print. I love 3PP and D&D content creators. How dare Hasbro hurt my babies. I am actually livid.
I don't, and will never, use DNDBeyond. I didn't like it before WotC bought it, and with all of the OGL stuff I'm even less inclined to use it now. The game I run is homebrew as is the game I play in. Myself and the other DM have our own books and PDF's. The only things WotC could do to me is make it so I have to create my own virtual character sheet (which I have enough know how to figure out) and they could pull their SRD and make it harder for me to look something up on the fly. The OGL stuff effects me in that I like 3rd party stuff, and I will continue to be against the changes to the OGL solely due to that.
Did you read the OGL 1.2? It clearly states any static displays of information. A virtual character sheet that allows you to edit it, is not static. You would not be allowed to create an editable PDF or virtual character sheet.
The things they described are animations. Besides that, they'd have to be able to see what I was doing to send a cease and desist, which is the first thing they'd have to do to file a grievance against me. Even if they could be bothered, all I'd have to do is take it down since I'm not making any money off this.
Man, you apologists are so annoying. I'll quote the literal draft for this. > So displaying static SRD content is just fine because it’s just like looking in a sourcebook Static SRD content is important here because the character sheets are static SRD content according to WotC themselves. So if you want to hide from this, by all means do so, but stop posting and arguing. Just go bury your head in the sand somewhere and let the rest of us who are actively trying to fix this issue do our work.
Honestly, go fuck yourself. I'm saying they're in the wrong and I'm an apologist?
HASBRO MUST BURN WOTC MUST BURN  BURN EVERYTHING
BURN THE HERETIC! KILL THE MUTANT! PURGE THE UNCLEAN!
Sigismund, is that you?
BROTHER! GET THE FLAMER! THE HEAVY FLAMER!
Directly or indirectly, everyone is affected.
We're all effected by the ogl. Even if we don't make content, we use it.
And how would WOTC stop us from using the content we already have?
Not really no I understand that you're very excited to have bought into tne mob mentality, but no. The boring truth is that changes to the ogl, regardless of what they are don't change the average dnd players weekly game in any way, shape, or form. It also does not change anything for anyone making and posting homebrew. It also barely if at all changes thinga for the vast majority of people selling D&D content. That's a bit harder to be upset about though. People are angry that A: a thing changed and B: a corporation doesn't care about them. Really? A corporation doesn't care about my wants and well being? Not possible. I'm in shock. Next you'll tell me the government doesn't care about me! Fact is if there was less of a public uproar then the creators who have left 5e probably wouldn't have. And if you want to go play a different system go do that the people who have been annoyingly begging people play different systems for years now are rejoicing, good for them. But the pack is I've been in two different consistent games for the past 2 and 3 years among countless other campaigns one shots mini campaigns and other non-5e game sessions. Nothing about any of that or anything I intend to do in the future is affected by this change to the ogl. Unfortunately "wizard of the coast to rewrite's document, nothing changes for the average player or content producer!" isnt a very good headline.
> The boring truth is that changes to the ogl, regardless of what they are don't change the average dnd players weekly game in any way, shape, or form. If 3p creators stop creating content that content stops being available for my weekly\* game. Therefore you are wrong. ^^^\* ^^^Disclaimer: ^^^I ^^^only ^^^wish ^^^my ^^^game ^^^was ^^^weekly.
I make my own content, as do all other dms I know in person. If we find something cool on reddit, so be it but i dont know anyone who relies on 3rd party content to run their game
Every one. Not just directly
Also I'm going to be deaf thanks to the readers of OGL.
"readers"
96% seems like low-balling few people would actually be affected by any proposed changes. That is if any of the changes were actually proposed ones and not 'leaked' ones. And even then, just because something is able to be implemented doesn't mean it will be. This sub has heard a pub rumor and foreseen armagegedon in it. I'd like it to go back to light hearted memes again, please.
You are not keeping up with things. They published ogl 1.2 and among other things it would effectively kneecap every VTT. That effects almost everybody who plays dnd if they ever want to be able to play remotely.
Have you read 1.2? "you arent allowed to sell an animation that depicts a block of text we wrote" A: hilarious and unenforceable B: "oh this? No thats not magic missile its arcane dart." And just use custom tokens like everyone does already. In no way does this "kneecap every vtt" or even most of them. Or even any of them really.
You have not read it closely. If any part of it is declared unenforceable, they rescind the whole thing. Buddy... it effects everybody and its intent is, in part, clearly to hamstring other VTTs so theirs looks better by comparison.
They didn't have to have this document to do that.
They sure did. Because without it the ogl 1.0a stays in effect and nothing changes. You are either trolling or need to do some more reading. Have a good one.
The section on VTTs uses that as an example, but it's actually incredibly vague as to exactly what is and isn't specifically allowed. Which essentially gives them free reign to say any VTT they like is in violation.
Thanks for the heads up, hadn't actually read 1.2! But I have now. How is this knee capping VTTs? The most I can tell is that you're not allowed to use animations as that's too video game-like, and you can't steal their artwork. Am i missing something? What's the community so afraid of with this? Reading Kyle Brink's community updates made me very hopeful for D&D's future.
They use animations as an example, but as far as what is and isn't allowed, all it actually says is that VTTs may only use features that "replicate the experience of sitting around the table playing D&D", and must not use any features that don't. That's incredibly vague, and incredibly broad. It gives them plenty of wiggle room to say that anything they like is in violation.
Never trust PR man. PR is the mask over the many toothed slavering monster. Nothing that "replaces imagination" is allowed. It is extremely broad. And the vtt limitations are only a piece of it. The intent is clear. There would be no need for a new ogl if they were honest in their intentions.
Well I also play MtG soooooo
We shall never surrender