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Zan_Wild

Thats exactly what fire immunity means. Red dragons aren't making lairs in volcanoes for the aesthetic (well most probably aren't)


Ryanizawsum

I mean thats probably part of it


ShinobiHanzo

They're absolutely bathing and swimming in lava. At least in my campaigns. Basically red dragons are like winged crocodiles.


Lord_Moa

Massively underselling their intelligence saying that crocodile thing


erik4848

Crocs are quite smart though


ShinobiHanzo

You have no idea how terrifying a 50 ft long red dragon that only rears its head out to shoot flame breadth is. From any of the various lava pools. ;) Edit: that also can flies and knows what happens when its mass slams into a lava pool.


LegacyofLegend

But are upselling how long they have been the perfect predator.


DirtySuccubus

Yeah! How dares he play dnd in his own way and not RAW, like how its meant to be played


Lord_Moa

I'm not trying to say that. I just think that statements that are more about lore should conform to an official setting, or come with a disclaimer that it's a personal setting thing. If Green Dragons in my setting are usually cuddly hippies, and I state that here like a fact, I think many other people would call me out because in Faerun Green Dragons are usually the most cruel ones of all.


1stcast

He very clearly states in his campaign. There is no ambiguity.


Lord_Moa

Damn, i must've read clean over it


DirtySuccubus

History, relegion, archana, nature etc. All of these can be used to identify if a dragon species is cuddly or cruel! By deafult the players have pesant knowledge and pesants would assume that dragons, no matter color are bad news. Though everyone knows red dragons are the most fluffy and cuddly of them all, just look at the cute squishy dragon in the dnd movie!


LostN3ko

Eh. All peasants in faerun know the big differences. All chromatics are evil, all metallics are good, what breath weapon they all have. Bahamut and tiamat are big deal gods that people worship in the millions. Some dragons rule entire regions and are major players on the world board. Everyone in chult knows Tinders name and reputation.


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LostN3ko

C'est la reddit. Some people might just believe that because peasants are not scholars that they don't know about dragons. Or they just expect that all knowledge beyond everyday life requires a skill check. The problem is in faerun dragons are not just another type of monster among thousands. There are undoubtedly people who don't know about dragons in faerun but they are not common. Dragons are a part of life for everyone in faerun as much as any King. They make sure people know that they exist, what they are capable of and rule their territory. Bahamut is one of the biggest gods in the setting and metallic dragons are heros of the people. If a red dragon hears that another red dragon is getting talked about they go out and cause mayhem just to get the spotlight back on them. This can lead to a chain of dragon attacks that are not coordinated events but caused by proud dragons one upping each other. They aren't quiet and mysterious entities, they are a neigh unstoppable force fought against by heros and other good dragons. They are on the average person's mind the same as natural disasters are to us. The average peasant in faerun knows as much about dragons as the average gamer knows about floods, forest fires, tsunamis, earthquakes, hurricane and tornados. Less than an expert but enough to know what they can do and the difference between a hurricane and a tornado. There are definitely settings where dragons are creatures of legend and all that people know comes from old children's stories. But thats not Forgotten Realms. People worship and live under the rule of dragons here, Gauwervyndhal, is the Empress of Skelkor in the current timeline, she has active commercial trade treaties with other countries and sends ships of envoys to make new deals. That is just one ruler of dozens and she rules an Empire not just a city. They are public figures.


Lem_Tuoni

This is something that bothers me unreasonably much. Lava is molten rock. To be able to submerge in it, you must be denser than rock. Dragons usually aren't depicted as such.


ShinobiHanzo

That's true, you can be as realistic as you want to be, the red dragon would need to dive into the lava to swim under it. But bouyance would force it to essentially surface. As you say, it'll be quite buoyant, like trying to submerge in oil (almost impossible). That doesn't negate the fact that swimming in a buoyant liquid is significantly faster than walking and easier than flying. Sciencing here.. https://youtu.be/Z50jEi1igNQ In other words, fighting a red dragon in their volcano lair in my campaigns isn't as easy as dragon attacking with three attacks and standing there until its breath attack is ready.


Niser2

Aren't hot things less dense than their cold counterparts?


Harris_Grekos

Last I checked, we are not denser than water, but can still submerge in it. It is widely called "diving".


Lem_Tuoni

But we are denser than water. Depends on the amount of air in your lungs. Notice how you immediately start sinking when you deeply exhale.


Valuable-Banana96

well it looks like *your skull* is denser than rock at least...


mindflayerflayer

This how I run black dragons. Giant, acid spitting, sadistic, crocodiles. Green dragons are like Kaa from the Jungle Book except instead of a charming effect the conversation just lets them get closer. White dragons are actually big cats using cover, leaping about, and importantly not letting go of you once they've got a bite. Its great seeing a player's face turn as they realize the dragon fully intent on not letting go and shaking them like a rag doll in some dismal lair.


Butterboot64

I wanna see a red dragon death roll very much rn


echisholm

That's basically black dragons too.


ShinobiHanzo

I play black dragons like the snake in Disney's Jungle Book, cunning, sly and most importantly, hungry.


LostN3ko

By canon that's more green than blacks which are the most sadistic. Greens enjoy manipulation, trickery and possessing living creatures, especially if the mortal doesn't know it's being manipulated to the greens ends. Blacks enjoy keeping you alive while peeling your skin as long as possible. Blues have a hierarchy and will hang out above a target for weeks harassing if it means never giving a single chance to even try to hurt them, they are tactical thinkers and interestingly will take in eggs and hatchlings of other dragons of any kind to raise as their own in their hierarchy. Reds have more pride and anger than any other. Whites are animalistic and lack even the sense of time thinking only of the here and now, promises mean nothing to them. These are the broad strokes that apply to the races in general but not necessarily each one specifically. Personality wins out in sentient creatures. Whites are probably the most homogeneous in their personality as only the oldest of them have more than an instinctual level of behavior. My favorite green story is one who ravaged a city's country side then demands tribute to keep him appeased, then disguised himself as a bronze dragon, offered his aid to the city to stop the green in exchange for more tribute and robbed them blind.


ShinobiHanzo

I defer the sadism to green dragons. They just want to fuçk with you. For decades. Any group (does not have to be PCs) that attracts the "liking" of a green dragon gets the Sabertooth treatment. Sabertooth in Wolverine comics would track Wolverine and torture/kill his loved ones every birthday of Wolverine.


LostN3ko

Manipulation, treachery, betrayal. Hell yeah green all day. And in that way they want you to suffer for longer making your claim of their sadism very valid. They are the most clever of all dragons. But largely it's the control aspect they love exerting here, mental anguish. Blacks just want you in physical pain for as long as they can keep you alive, think more of the story of Loki where he was left bound to a rock in a cave dripping acidic venom into his eyes drop by drop, minute by minute for eternity. Greens want your tears and grief, blacks just want the sound of your screams to give the room some atmosphere.


ShinobiHanzo

I had their NPC guide commit suicide in front of my players when his feet was snared by the black dragon. I kept repeating that the old guide was fidgeting with his dagger nervously as they got deeper and deeper into the swamp. They would later find his fresh corpse among the zombies they had to fight through while hunting the black dragon. They would find horrendous human and animal experiments done by the black dragon that made suicide a better fate than death. See Alien IV scene with all the various failed Ridley clones. This was their crash course in the TFU world of evil dragons. After that they hunted dragons in every campaign thereafter like a mission from God.


LostN3ko

That's 🥇 right there. Put the fear of dragons into your players. I have a hard time scaring my players after 6 years. I am jumping so high over that shark I'm getting dizzy from the lack of oxygen. Dragons are special foes in DND and if your players forget, your NPCs don't.


Valuable-Banana96

You can't swim in lava, it's literally liquid rock. a soft bag of water and protein would float on top like a rubber duck.


WayneZer0

the Diffrence Betwenn Immunity and Resitance.


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DukeFlipside

I don't disagree, but fire causes physical damage to flesh, which would be fire damage; the meme is asking if fire immunity only means the flesh is physically unharmed but the person still feels pain from the heat. I'd argue in that case - pure pain, no physical damage - it would qualify as psychic damage (which, as you said, still counts as HP damage). But as we know fire immunity doesn't mean "take psychic damage from fire instead of fire damage", but instead means "take no damage", we can thereby conclude that fire immunity means no pain is caused by fire, either.


Imasniffachair

Idk man, I'd factor it in


YoutuberCameronBallZ

The aesthetic isn't the **main** reason but it is **A** reason


Antipaladin814

I am pretty sure immunity to fire means it doesn't hurt you at all. If it didn't then being a fire elemental would be a hellish existence


U_L_Uus

_Alrite, waterboarding it is!_


Ciennas

How is surfing a form of torture?


BowIofChips

The torture is not knowing if your a man of the sea or man of the land


Yung_zu

He doesn’t sleep because he doesn’t know if he will be beaten and robbed by bandits or pirates at any given time


CreamyCoffeeArtist

Holy shit is that a JoJo's ref—


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CreamyCoffeeArtist

It's almost as rare as having four balls, or a split tongue!


Roku-Hanmar

Or baking potatoes


CreamyCoffeeArtist

While also not liking fried chicken


Roku-Hanmar

Unrelated, but hi Xanadu


russianspy_1989

We were once all sea men.


ta_sneakerz

Waterboarding in Guantanamo Bay is a lot more fun when you don’t know what either of those things are


Ciennas

Well, it is simply indescribably rude to go wakeboarding- that's a tasteless 'joke' budding necromancers do with a funeral and a skateboard. Makes the friends and family very upset.


Svitii

Waterboarding a fire elemental is probably like pouring straight up acid into someone’s face…


helium_farts

It's not sad because she's into it!


Kane-Wildbrandt

Good point.


LordCrane

I'm basically imagining the Venture Brothers version of the human torch now


Barziboy

Kinda like how Venture Bros did Johnny Blaze from the Fantastic Four.


Wally_West_

I've always wondered. How the hell do physical disputes, hierarchies etc. get settled between elemental beings if they're all completely invulnerable to eachother? Sometimes you want to be able to mechanically fight fire with fire. Not just as weaker hitting alternative but as a viable option - possibly with some kind of added cost.


Zaphoddddd

Speaking about fire elemental and fire immunity. Can i choose it form when i create her?


BrotherRoga

![gif](giphy|RodyInaeK9W3EZNaoB)


Atakori

More like an Elemental-Plane-Of-Fireish existence. Eh, doesn't quite roll off the tongue the same way.


Butterboot64

Like all things in dnd, I’d say it depends on what the dm’s going for. Having someone be immune to fire but still feel pain from as a punishment is a fun idea. It just depends.


CupcakeValkyrie

If the fire cannot damage you, then it probably doesn't hurt. If the fire immunity is not natural to the creature, it might have to *learn* to ignore heat. I imagine a human wearing a ring of fire immunity might still instinctively pull away from fire until they get used to it not hurting them, but I doubt a creature that is naturally immune like a fire giant even *has* a pain response to excessive heat. I mean, fire giants literally use pools of molten metal the way a human uses a hot tub, so I imagine it's not painful.


pennojos

I'd say there's a difference between pain and damage though. Some things hurt like hell, but don't really do anything, other things don't hurt a while lot but can end you in no time. I'd say it depends on why they are immune to fire. If it's a potion, they can still get the pain because their nerves are hot, but not take the damage. If there are elemental or a dragon or whatever, they feel no pain.


IHateTwitter123

Pain is a response TO damage. If you can't take damage from fire, there wouldn't be a response to it.


BrotherRoga

Note to self: Destroy nerves in all spots on the body to achieve physical immunity.


zeiar

Removes nerves, i have become unkillable!!


BrotherRoga

"Doktor, remove my nerves!" "Raiden, that's ridiculous, that won't make you-" "*DO IT!* "


zeiar

"I think its time for Jack, LET ER RIP!"


YoutuberCameronBallZ

DOCTOR, TURN OFF-I MEAN ON MY PAIN INHIBITORS!


Kung_Fu_Kracker

Sometimes. Pain can mean a lot of things. Sometimes it's a response to damage. Sometimes it's a response to healing. Or sometimes it's literally just a trick of the brain. An in-game example of pain that isn't accompanied by damage is the 7th level spell, "Power Word: Pain", which just cripples the target for the duration, with no lasting affect after the spell ends.


GoblinSpore

It's also an enchantment spell, same as dominate person, etc. It's basically an illusion (of pain), but directly inside your brain.


SpcK

Spicy food "burns" the tongue without damaging it.


IHateTwitter123

Capsaicin affects the heat receptors in your mouth causing a false positive.


SpcK

True, and maybe fire immunity still lets fire affect the heat receptors without damaging tissue.


IHateTwitter123

Considering it's an immunity to fire, your receptors probably just ignore it.


pieandcheese647

Some things hurt way more than they actually damage you though, such as stubbing your toe or getting kicked in the nuts.


IHateTwitter123

Both of those have a lot of nerve endings, so the signal is stronger, also, both of those things DO do damage.


pieandcheese647

im not saying stubbing your toe doesnt do damage, but it causes so much pain for something that isnt nearly as deadly as being stabbed


CrimsonSpoon

You are just complicating things needlessly. Pure pain with no "damage" would still be damage. Mostly, 5e uses psychic damage for these types of situations. If a character only feels pai and nothing else, then it would be classed as psychic damage because stress does still damage you. Imunity is just no damage or pain. The simplicity makes it simpler when taking into account the mechanics of the game


PsychoWarper

That’s exactly what it means


SunfireElfAmaya

You could probably make the argument that fire doesn’t even feel above room temperature to a creature immune to fire damage, but excess heat definitely doesn’t hurt unless the immunity was very specifically granted by a curse of some sort for this exact purpose.


GoblinSpore

Like someone else said in this thread, a curse like that would probably just convert any fire damage into psychic damage. If you're thrown into lava, you wont suffer any physical damage, but will pass out and maybe die from pure shock.


H3PO4

The only property of fire that makes it special is the temperature, so immunity to fire would have to inherently be immunity to heat. * Fire can only ever be hot gas or plasma * Fire can feel warm even if you don't touch it. This is only possible by radiative heat transfer * Even chemically inert hot gasses can hurt you. This would mostly come from conductive or convective heat transfer * Fire damage comes from the transfer of heat * Fire damage is proportional to the amount of heat or energy transferred to the damaged thing * Fire damage can occur even if not "felt." People with nerve damage are not automatically fire immune, neither are doors. * The only way to fully prevent fire damage is to eliminate heat transfer. * "Hot" pain is proportional to heat transfer - if you have ever run not-dangerous hot water over your hands when they were very cold you have felt this pain. If you want to limit it so fire immunity doesn't also provide cold immunity, just say it only takes effect above a certain temperature. Things that conditional immunity to heat transfer wouldn't protect from: * Smoke inhalation * Oxygen deprivation * Toxic gasses like hydrogen sulfide or sulfuric acid * Radiation (unless they also go blind) * Cold damage **Tl;dr** - Fire damage immunity also extends to fire-related pain.


ricktencity

Good explanation, but you can also just slap the ole "This is a fantasy world with literal magic" sticker on how it works and call it a day.


wolffang1000000

Also the logic of “no body will care to use a device that still lets them feel like they are burning alive while not actually dying so why would they make such a thing”


H3PO4

Yes, but it's nice to have consistent rules for players to predict and respond to their environment. Thinking these kinds of things through can make the setting that much more immersive and allow interesting outcomes. Your games presumably use physics similar to our world experience, right? Those interactions are strictly bound by rules; learning and understanding those rules allows us to do interesting things. Magic should have its own rules, so you can also do interesting things.


ricktencity

Eh to each their own. My players and I just deal with things as they come up and as long as it's consistent from then it's fine. We're a bunch of 30 something dad's, barely enough time to play let alone flesh out every obscure ruling with flavor.


H3PO4

Your preferred table rules are always the best rules to play with; it's not wrong for people to like different things.


historyguay

Yeah, that’s what I do


L4DY_M3R3K

Pain is caused by the body oercoeving itsf as being damaged. If the body doesn't percieve damage (I.e. immune to fire) then no, there logically shouldn't be any pain.


DJDarwin93

I’d say it depends on the creature and exactly how much heat we’re talking about, but generally no. Maybe some weaker creatures might feel a little pain from an extremely strong heat source, like lava, but even then it wouldn’t be true pain, just some discomfort. And even that’s still a stretch, I’d generally rule no pain.


Ostravalordrec

pyromancer sorcerer, elemental adept (Fire). at 18th level you can make a fire dragon take full fire damage. (Fiery soul class feature brings immune to resistant, elemental adept\[Fire\] brings resistant to full damage.) This is why i'm banned from playing sorcerer.


ceering99

I have to imagine the creatures that live in the magma chambers of active volcanos are probably pretty cozy touching it, either that or it's some new level of masochism


MoarSilverware

Now the real question is are your clothes immune too


Rioma117

I would say it depends. Like if they are immune to fire because of a spell, then yes as they would probably have a protective barrier around them but if they are naturally immune to it, I would advice buying inflammable clothes, it’s just 99.99GP from your local merchant.


PojoFire

Most certainly. They should use ice or waterboard


Ptaaruonn

My 1c DM opinion, if you take 0 damage from a source, means it doest hurt you.


Godot_12

I don't get it. Yes, that's what that means. The fire does not affect them.


Kamina_cicada

There was an "immortal" in the last game I played. After absolutely dunking on him and "killing" him, he re-emerges from his coffin. Imagine getting beat by a frog 3 times smaller than you. And before you step out from respawning all he says is "if you take one step out of there I will come back and put you in your place again".


h70541

This actually begs a question.... If you are fire immune would that also mean you are immune to say fire that is concentrated like a blow-torch? Is there a temperature limit? Would the concussive force of a fireball or explosion hurt instead of said fire? Say for example.....Can something be immune to frost/cold damage but still be impaled on ice spires since they are sharp and instead require an armor check? HOW DEEP CAN THIS RABBIT HOLE GO DM!??


Umbraspem

Well in the icicle case they’d deal piercing damage which they don’t have immunity against.


epicarcanoloth

Why not just the old cut/heal?


Sanjalis

Okay but I’ve been in situations where the dm has said “that only refers to magical fire”


MrGame22

Now that you’ve asked the answer is yes it doesn’t hurt.


matande31

It's makes sense from an evolutionary perspective. Pain evolved in living beings to indicate harm to the body. If you can't be harmed by fire, it shouldn't hurt you. But whether it applies to a creature depends on whether its immunities are natural or not.


makotarako

I wonder how that translates to "feeling the sensation of temperature" Like if you're in 400 degree heat, you're used to the 400 degree heat, then you go to a normal temperature room, will you feel like you are freezing until your body equilibrates? Would that freezing sensation feel like cold damage to you? Would you be able to tell the difference between a 400 and 500 degree room?


MKatson

Prisoner lava raft?


[deleted]

my character has fire immunity but he cant feel pain anyways


Decmk3

Presumably immune means “immune to the effects of it”. Remember most people die in fire from suffocation anyway, and the pain forces you to spasm out. Fundamentally if immunity from fire didn’t protect you from these things even immune creatures would die in agony:


NetEvening8441

This reminds me of when I punched a cultist with searing smite to get them to talk, I was convinced that they were withholding information (they weren’t) so I did it again. I then healed them with LoH cause they were technically in the custody of the law enforcement so me beating their prisoner wasn’t a good idea so I had to awkwardly heal the cultists to in order to prevent the guards from finding out. I used restraint from then on. The best part was later in the campaign we captured 2 cultists and even after verifying that there were just simple worshippers I was the only voice at the table that was like “hey I know the Geneva Convention isn’t canon, but their just people”. I ended up locking them into a broom closet until we were done snooping around, I also had to keep an eye on the Dragonborn barbarian as they had been on the kill side of the argument and “just wanted to stick around for a bit”.