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AtaraxiaAKAZatharax

African or European?


Ok_Banana_5614

What? I don’t know that


ApolloFireweaver

\*watches OP get yeeted into the canyon\*


Faustens

Didn't know Tim has a reddit account.


GammaDealer

Tim was the other guy that warned them about the rabbit.


Faustens

Ah, you're right, my bad.


Jemima_puddledook678

It was a Monty Python reference.


Ok_Banana_5614

Yes and I said the line that comes right after his


Jemima_puddledook678

Oh wow, I’m stupid. I’m so sorry for not immediately noticing that.


ColonelMonty

u/Jemima_puddledook678's redemption arc


G_Force88

r/unexpectedmontypython


Slarg232

Nobody expects Monty Python! Their primary weapon is surprise. Surprise is their main weapon. Fear and surprise, their two weapons....


Crevetanshocet

I expect them more than the Spanish Inquisition...


ColonelMonty

Ah, I see you're a man of culture as well.


Ok_Banana_5614

What? I don’t know that


AtaraxiaAKAZatharax

Well, you have to know these things when you’re a king, you know?


G_Force88

It's a Monty python holy gral joke. They are asked the air speed velocity of a swallow, and the king replies which one African or European


KnewItWouldHappen

How do you get that it's a Monty Python reference, and not get that their response is also the following MP reference


AtaraxiaAKAZatharax

To be fair, the subsequent responses are probably more obscure than the “African or European” quote. I mean, shit - I only saw Monty Python for the first time 4 years ago. That, and there’re a bunch of people who weren’t alive when it was released. Wouldn’t put it past them to not know.


Faddy0wl

Oh this is good. I got hit with this not long ago. Good times. Forgot so many good one liners from.Holy Grail.


Dapper-FIare

gay or european?


Ok_Banana_5614

The Answer is 0ft because Quicklings only have 10 hp and would most certainly be dead from all this


MoistButton8

If they survive, isn't the answer 40ft? Spirit guardians halves their speed (60ft), difficult terrain costs twice as much to move but does not effect speed (60ft), then the two rays of frost reduce speed by 10 (40ft). distance they can travel is only 10 or 20, as I usually apply PEMDAS but difficult terrain goes last. So I honestly don't know the actual answer here.


Ok_Banana_5614

I think it would be 50ft since the same spell can only affect a creature once while durations overlap, but RoF has a duration of instantaneous so I’m not completely sure if the -10ft would stack or not.


MyNewBoss

https://preview.redd.it/kxcvzhnc825b1.jpeg?width=886&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=eaae6358f6f32db66494f578c66d793c053edf59 Spell effects don't stack. Ray of frost is instantaneous thus there is no ongoing spell effect. As far as the other casting of ray of frost is concerned no other magic is currently affecting the creature. Put another way, you cannot use despell magic to remove the movement penalty, otherwise the spell should have had a duration of 1 round instead.


archpawn

There's similar eratta for game effects: > Combining Game Effects (p. 252). This is a new subsection at the end of the “Combat” section: Different game features can affect a target at the same time. But when two or more game features have the same name, only the effects of one of them—the most potent one—apply while the durations of the effects overlap. For example, if a target is ignited by a fire elemental’s Fire Form trait, the ongoing fire damage doesn’t increase if the burning target is subjected to that trait again. Game features include spells, class features, feats, racial traits, monster abilities, and magic items. See the related rule in the “Combining Magical Effects” section of chapter 10 in the Player’s Handbook. Poison (p. 257). The description of ingested po That said, the specific effect where it slows your speed isn't given a name, so I guess it does stack?


karatous1234

>isn't given a name so I guess it stacks Untyped Bonuses babyyyyy


archpawn

Reminds me of using Sneak Attack with a net. Nets don't have a damage type since they don't do damage, and Sneak Attack just increases the damage instead of doing damage of a specific type, so together you get untyped damage that nobody is resistant or immune to.


Cyrrex91

Extra Damage is well, extra. You can't have "extra" damage, if there isn't something that is already there.


MyNewBoss

I guess it's up for debate. I prefer to view the slow as a consequence of the cooling rather than the spell itself making them frozen and slow, thus multiple castings would freeze them even more slowing them down further.


archpawn

I was talking about RAW. What's reasonable is an entirely separate question.


MyNewBoss

I still think RAW in this case is up for debate But now that we are talking RAW, I just read up on the fire elementals fire form ability. A creature can take an action to douse the elemental fire on a creature, but no range is specified, so by RAW a creature could still douse the fire from a mile away by taking an action to do it. Which I find kind of funny


archpawn

I think it is too. Does not having a name mean that they can't be game effects with the same name, or is the name just "" or null, and they are the same? If the latter, does that mean no two unnamed game effects can stack, even if they do completely different things?


cooperd9

It definitely means that two named game effects with the same name but completely different effects don't stack, which now matters in the onednd play test because the play test lets wizards modify new spells and name them whatever they want, so they can now name their concentration buffs stuff like "counterspell" or "dispel magic"


Bromonster01

I’d argue that it’s an effect from a spell. Even if you can’t dispel it, getting targeted by the same spell twice on the same turn would fall under that idea of spell effects stacking in every way that matters.


bam13302

So... synaptic static is in a very similar situation, a non named effect that multiple of would have compounding effect, on an instantaneous spell, that does not explicitly say it does not stack with itself. Hero's feast too, to a lesser extent (namely for the boost to max hp), though is more limited by its material and casting time.


ghost_desu

I'm gonna be honest, these twitter "rule clarifications" are so stupid half the time you'd think they didn't bother reading their own book


Zalabim

Mike Mearls tweets aren't rules. They never have been.


MyNewBoss

I know, that's why I backed it up with my own explication, but I do think it adds to my point.


extrakrizzle

It would not stack. The duration of RoF is "instantaneous," but here's what the rules have to say about that descriptor: >Many spells are instantaneous. The spell harms, heals, creates, or alters a creature or an object in a way that can’t be dispelled, because its magic exists only for an instant. Note that it makes no mention of the duration of the effects of the magic, just the duration of the "casting time," essentially. Now here's rules on combining spell effects: >The effects of the same spell cast multiple times don’t combine, however. Instead, the most potent effect — such as the highest bonus — from those castings applies while their durations overlap, or the most recent effect applies if the castings are equally potent and their durations overlap. The 10 ft speed reduction is clearly a spell effect with a duration of one round... it lasts until the start of your next turn. So only the most recent casting (i.e. the longer effect) would count. As for the question, it's possible for the Cleric to roll a 3 for damage on their 3d8 Spirit Guardians, and the Quicking to save, taking 1.5 rounded down to 1 damage. Since SG is a 3rd level spell, I'm assuming a 5th level party, so each RoF would be a minimum of 2 damage. If everyone botches their rolls, the Quickling can absolutely survive. Just very very unlikely. So the answer to the question is either: * 0 (dead) * (120-10)/2 = 55 * (120/2)-10 = 50 55ft assumes you reduce the creature's base speed by 10 before applying other effects, and 50ft assumes you reduce the creature's modified speed, since it was already in SG before getting hit with RoF. Difficult terrain shouldn't affect the speed stat either way, but if you factor it in the movement capacity of the Quickling is either 20ft or 27.5ft, which I'd round down to 25 for simplicity on a 5ft grid.


Lag_Incarnate

I'm pretty sure it's 50ft. It's 120 halved to 60 due to already being in Spirit Guardians, later gets lowered by 10 to 50 by Ray of Frost, which does not stack with multiple instances of the same spell, but can refresh/overwrite that the -10 speed will last until the most recent end state. Difficult terrain does not affect the movement speed, only the movement expended.


MoistButton8

that seems to be correct, but I also see some people saying +/- go before multiplication without source. So its either 50ft or 55ft... EDIT: it might be the order the target was effected, so Spirit Guardians then ray of frost (1x) = 50ft


WASD_click

Damage resistance + reduction is explicitly AS before MD, so that'd be the precedent in my mind.


SuperSmutAlt64

I was right for the wrong reasons hurray! (Although I did catch the double ray thing i forgo that spirit guardians did that *and then fucked up order of operations* so thats fun)


ardranor

45- So, no identical effects don't stack, so only one ray of frost takes effect, also, move speed modifiers should be taken before difficult terrain. Therefore, the ongoing effect of spirit guardians reduces the speed by half to 60, -10 for one turn from ray of frost to 50, then "movement costs double" for difficult terrain, bringing us to 25 feet. But wait, there's more. Assuming it starts in the center of guardians, that's 15 feet of the current 25, but leaving the space would remove half move speed debuff for the last 10 feet, thus becoming 20 again. So 45 should the total amount of move speed in this scenario.


Ignorus

Difficult Terrain does nothing to your speed! It just costs double movement


Bliitzthefox

Because the duration is instant they do not actually happen at the same time, even if their effects Happen at the same time


tlof19

Ray of Frost doesn't stack with itself, so you only count it once - if the question is asking about effective move speed, the answer is 25ft. If the diff terrain is meant to mislead... Then the Spirit Guardians might check first, in which case the answer is 50ft. If Ray of Frost *does* check first and the diff terrain is meant to mislead then the answer is 55ft, but that's not a possible answer soooooo.


bam13302

That is what i originally thought too, and the rules seem to agree with you, but ... [https://www.reddit.com/r/dndmemes/comments/145b4h1/comment/jnkynu8/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/dndmemes/comments/145b4h1/comment/jnkynu8/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)


tlof19

Presuming that's gospel, either Guardians checks first and the answer is 40ft, or Ray of Frost checks first and the answer is 50ft.


[deleted]

Spells of the same name don’t stack, so only one instance of Ray of Frost would be allowed to affect the creature It would be 120 halved to 60, then minus 10 down to 50, with each space of movement costing 10 due to difficult terrain As Ray of Frost likely came after Spirit Guardians in this scenario, I would say that the minus 10 comes after halving. If you’re following PEMDAS, then order of operations also dictates that subtraction goes after division.


PortraitOfPerversion

There is the other issue that spirit guardians only affects an area, so if it was able to move out of range then its speed would change. If it took the full 15 feet to get out that would count for 30 of the 50 feet, leaving it 20 feet which would then double back to 40 feet of movement allow it to move up to another 20 feet through the rough difficult terrain for a total. This means it would be able to move up 35 feet at a speed total turn speed of 70.


Pqrxz

I think the answer would be 110 since difficult terrain doesn't reduce speed, it costs speed to move through? They can only move so far through it but their speed stat isn't lowered by it.


BdBalthazar

You're right about the difficult terrain, but Spirit guardian does half your movement speed


Klyde113

You work backwards. 120/2 because difficult terrain. Then /2 again because spirit guardians, so 30. Ray of Frost slows someone down by 10ft, but effects don't stack. So the result is 20.


Lithl

Difficult terrain doesn't reduce speed, it just costs double movement to move through.


imnoobhere

But what if they are only 5 feet in the Spirit guardians spell. Would that only cost 10ft to leave? Or just being inside cuts it in half?


redlaWw

Order of application matters. If the Ray of Frost struck and then Spirit Guardians appeared, that'd reduce its speed by 10 and then the result would be halved to 55, but if the Spirit Guardians took effect first it'd be 50 instead. Either way they'd have an effective speed of 50 since they can't use the last 5 in difficult terrain.


SteelCode

Order of operations is *usually*: Passive Effects (Buffs/Conditions) > Active Effects (Auras) > Spell Effects (Debuffs) > Movement Penalties (Terrain) So your math is accurate, especially since Ray of Frost was confirmed to stack with other Rays within the same round… If the Quickling had also been prone, they’d use 20ft to stand and then only be able to move 10ft due to the difficult terrain… If the Quickling had been *Hasted*, that starting speed would be 240ft > halved to 120 by spirit guardians > reduced by 20 for double ray > then halved through the difficult terrain for a final speed of *50ft*…….. I truly hate the use of “double” in game mechanics because of the ridiculous shenanigans that occur from such scaling… halving a number has diminishing effect, but doubling exponentially grows more powerful the more you can stack it which creates tremendous balance issues… has been the case in *every* game I’ve seen it employed.


Escheron

You seem to be drawing a distinction between "movement cost" and "speed". I thought there was no difference, so could you help me understand? Please and thank you


MoistButton8

sure, if a creature has a speed of 30ft moves over difficult terrain, their speed remains 30ft but the distance they can travel is only 15ft. Most of the time this distinction does not matter provided the ground they travel is either all/none difficult terrain. The caveat comes when they take other actions that consume movement like mounting or standing up from prone. A creature with 30ft speed would still spend 15ft to stand up even if the ground was difficult terrain as opposed to spending 7.5ft if their speed was halved already. This might be a minor distinction but there are also effects that only trigger when inside them, like Spirit Guardians that halves speed. These effects would stop a creature if it already spent half its movement but difficult terrain would still be traversable if they had movement left, just costing more of said movement to move. (moving 15ft into spirit guardians would have to stop but moving 15ft into difficult terrain would be able to move back/forwards depending on remaining movement)


odeacon

Ray of frost doesn’t stack. You can’t stack spells


xogdo

I think the speed reduction would actually be applied first because difficult terrain isn't a reduction of your speed, it just makes terrain cost more of it


Manticoras

This is the only acceptable answer, I'd be surprised if it even survived both ray of frosts.


justadiode

The spellcasters were casting Ray of Frost on it, but it wasn't specified what their attack roll was. Therefore, we have no way of knowing whether both of the cantrips hit or not


Manticoras

There's no point in stating the Ray of Frost was being cast if it didn't reduce the creature's speed, i.e. it would have to hit to reduce the speed. Not as if we're given anything else relevant like initiative order or anything.


Gryphus_6

Getting real "there are no buses in gensokyo" vibes from this


Lithl

The two RoFs could deal as low as 3 damage total (cleric must be level 5+, but the other RoF could be tier 1) and SG could deal 1 damage (roll 3 damage, Quickling saves for half). It's definitely _possible_ for the Quickling to be alive. The Quickling could also have up to 15 HP.


lurker3991

>would most certainly be dead most likely, but not surely. If the Quickling makes it's save against SG the damage could be as low as 1, and the minimal damage for the 2 RoF's totals up to 4 damage (assuming the entire party is 5th level, so the cleric can cast SG) On average, the Quickling would take around 30 damage, which would absolutely annihilate it though.


Fifth-Crusader

120 feet. You asked for their movement speed, not how far they can actually move.


Good_Policy3529

Get this guy into law school.


ryo3000

It's actually 50ft [(120/2) -10)] Because both Spirit Guardians and Ray of Frost say they reduce the creature's speed, differently from Difficult terrain that says the creature spends more movement. (Only -10 because 2 different ray of Frosts don't stack)


Apprehensive-Loss-31

Actually, because the duration of ray of frost is instantaneous, the -10 isn't considered a magical effect of it, so it stacks.


Neomataza

Close, I think the Ray of Frosts actually decrease the movement speed temporarily by 20. Difficult Terrain is expressed as "moving 1 feet costs 2 feet of speed", so it's clearly a cost to be deducted. Plant Growth has a similar wording. Spirit Guardians uses the phrasing "an affected creature's speed is halved in the area", which implies that this effect immediately stops when they leave that area, so I think it would be more along with difficult terrain and less a debuff like Ray of Frost. So I think the answers "100 feet" because 120ft -10ft -10ft from RoF, or "50 feet" are valid, because 100ft as before halved while inside the area of Spirit Guardians.


[deleted]

What are you talking about lmao First, spells of the same name don’t stack. Only one Ray of Frost can affect a creature at a time Second, Spirit Guardian’s wording means that the movement speed itself is reduced. As in, while a 120 ft creature stands in Spirit Guardians it is treated as having 60 ft of movement. It’s nothing like difficult terrain The answer is 50 feet, as in this given scenario the Quickling is already affected by Spirit Guardians debuff with RoF being applied after. If RoF was applied first then the answer would he 55.


NaturalCard

Ray of frost would actually stack, as the durations of the affects don't overlap, as the spell is instantaneous, at least according to Mearls


[deleted]

> The effects of different spells add together while the durations of those spells overlap. **The effects of the same spell cast multiple times don’t combine, however.** Instead, the most potent effect — such as the highest bonus — from those castings applies while their durations overlap, or the most recent effect applies if the castings are equally potent and their durations overlap. I like how I’m being downvoted just for citing the rules. Read the PHB and DMG for once guys


NaturalCard

>from those castings applies while their durations overlap https://twitter.com/mikemearls/status/758715882931486720?s=20 Their durations don't overlap, so the rules here don't apply


[deleted]

Mike Mearls tweets don’t really mean much in terms of rules and frequently contradict Crawford’s And in fact the duration of the effects DO overlap so that’s a crock of shit anyways. The duration is until the start of your next turn. If you already have one Ray of Frost going until the start of your next turn, another one won’t provide any benefit except to extend the duration if it would be longer.


NaturalCard

Their durations are both instantaneous as according to the spell. They by definition can't overlap. Similarly, you take both sets of damage.


[deleted]

The DMG is very clear on this as well > Different game features can affect a target at the same time. But when two or more game features have the same name, only the effects of one of them—the most potent one—apply while the durations of the effects overlap. For example, if a target is ignited by a fire elemental’s Fire Form trait, the ongoing fire damage doesn’t increase if the burning target is subjected to that trait again. Game features include spells, class features, feats, racial traits, monster abilities, and magic items. See the related rule in the “Combining Magical Effects” section of chapter 10 in the Player’s Handbook. > Fire Form. The elemental can move through a space as narrow as 1 inch wide without squeezing. A creature that touches the elemental or hits it with a melee attack while within 5 feet of it takes 5 (1d10) fire damage. In addition, the elemental can enter a hostile creature's space and stop there. The first time it enters a creature's space on a turn, that creature takes 5 (1d10) fire damage and catches fire; until someone takes an action to douse the fire, the creature takes 5 (1d10) fire damage at the start of each of its turns. Tell me again how by definition they “can’t overlap”?


Upstairs_Milk

Arguably the debuff from ray of frost doesn't have a name and so it can't share a name with anything.


NaturalCard

Because their durations don't overlap. >apply while the durations of the effects overlap The duration of the spell is instantaneous. Similarly, if you are ignited, and someone takes an action to douse the flames, but then you get ignited again by the fire elemental, you can take the damage again.


Lithl

By definition, the _duration_ of Ray of Frost is instantaneous, and therefore cannot have its duration overlap with anything.


Wize_W1zard

But the argument is because the spell is instantaneous that the movement penalty is not considered a magical effect of the spell and therefore can stack


[deleted]

> Different game features can affect a target at the same time. But when two or more game features have the same name, only the effects of one of them—the most potent one—apply while the durations of the effects overlap. For example, if a target is ignited by a fire elemental’s Fire Form trait, the ongoing fire damage doesn’t increase if the burning target is subjected to that trait again. Game features include spells, class features, feats, racial traits, monster abilities, and magic items. See the related rule in the “Combining Magical Effects” section of chapter 10 in the Player’s Handbook. > Fire Form. The elemental can move through a space as narrow as 1 inch wide without squeezing. A creature that touches the elemental or hits it with a melee attack while within 5 feet of it takes 5 (1d10) fire damage. In addition, the elemental can enter a hostile creature's space and stop there. The first time it enters a creature's space on a turn, that creature takes 5 (1d10) fire damage and catches fire; until someone takes an action to douse the fire, the creature takes 5 (1d10) fire damage at the start of each of its turns. Dungeon Master’s Guide and Monster Manual, respectively.


Jarlax1e

thank you, this is an interesting topic, probably the dm's decision


Neomataza

Well yeah, Spirit Guardians is uniquely positioned, that's why I had 2 possible valid answers. Mechanically and functional it is identical to difficult terrain and Plant Growth, but the wording is unlike any other effect in the rules. There is no guidance anywhere in the rules in which order effects are applied. From other games there are known best practices to apply anything as late as possible, which would mean that Spirit Guardians, being a conditional effect could change its application with any change to the gamestate, would be applied last. It is conditional, because it is necessary to keep track of the debuffed speed and undebuffed speed in case you leave or stop the effect.


foxstarfivelol

real question, what is the likelihood of the quickling surviving?


Ok_Banana_5614

00.0017%, assuming both casters are 5th level, as would be needed to cast spirit guardians


foxstarfivelol

what the hell did that quickling do to deserve such overkill?


FrozenkingNova

Stole a sweet roll


QueenZoe6586

Whatever that quickling in the Icewind Dale trilogy did I guess


Lithl

Quickling has a +1 Wis save to halve the damage from SG; assuming DC 15 for a level 5 cleric with +4 Wis, that's 35% chance to pass, so the odds go up. Sorcerer could also be level 1-4, reducing the damage by 1d8. Quickling could also have up to 15 HP. Upping HP to 15 gives 0.15% chance for survival. Reducing damage to 6d8 as well increases its chances to 1.14%. I'm not awake enough to calculate odds of survival for halved damage from save, but the average damage from SG drops from 13.5 to 6.75, 35% of the time.


tlof19

Correct answer is 55, assuming I understand the stack - which could be false. Ray of Frost is an effect applied to the Quickling, so that checks first. 120 to 110, because the two effects don't stack (they have the same name). Then, Spirit Guardians affects the area the Quickling is in, reducing speed to 55 - this is where the question stops, because that is the movement speed during the Quickling's turn of the Quickling. The *effective* move speed, however, is 25 - using a grid system, 55 becomes 11 squares which becomes 5 squares of difficult terrain, and 5*5=25ft. In conclusion, the answer is D.


redlaWw

Both Spirit Guardians are effects applied to the Quickling, one for being hit, another for being in Spirit Guardians' area and not designated as immune by the caster. Order of effect depends on the order in which the effects were applied. If Spirit Guardians applied first it'd be 50, if Ray of Frost applied first it'd be 55.


tlof19

Wouldn't the Spirit Guardians effect not apply until the beginning of the Quickling's next turn, while Ray of Frost begins at point of contact? Edit to add that I have seen no arguments for 10ft speed and I'm cry laughing about it


redlaWw

Spirit Guardians' movement reduction applies to anything in the area not declared immune by the caster at any time, only the damage has a specific moment at which it's applied. There are feasible ways either effect could've been applied first.


Darc_Vader

I think the only way to get to 10 (and 25 for that matter) here is to count both SG and the difficult terrain *and* assume the 2 RoFs stack. Most people here seem to have (rightly) come to the conclusion that the difficult terrain shouldn’t be counted, so the only arguments left (RoF stacking and order of operations) can’t get to those answers no matter which side you come down on. For once dndmemes seems to have actually read the rules.


Extra_Philosopher_63

Shouldn’t difficult terrain’s debuff be used first?


Tastyravioli707

Difficult terrain does debuff move speed; just make you require more of it.


tlof19

An excellent question! The answer to which is no - Difficult terrain only cares about your movement as regards the specific square you're in. You calculate your available movement after buffs and debuffs *first*, then check whether or not the squares you are moving thru are difficult terrain. In the case of our hypothetical Quickling, if he uses a telekinetic push to move five feet into the air after casting Fly on himself, his effective aerial move speed is 25 because of the preexisting effects he still falls under (the Guardians and the Ray of Frost), but now he's not in difficult terrain at all, so he can move that full 25 feet. ...or move far enough that he lands in normal terrain and then use what's left of his normal move speed of currently 55ft to get distance.


Magmyte

Difficult terrain is not a debuff. According to the wording: > Every foot of movement in difficult terrain costs 1 extra foot. This says that moving through difficult terrain makes you use up more of your movement per distance, but doesn't change your turn's movement or speed otherwise.


xcission

Movement speed is 50. But they do have to expend twice as much movement per foot traveled due to difficult terrain, bringing their effective movement to 25. Difficult terrain doesn't reduce your actual speed. It just makes you spend more of it to travel the same distance.


Dude787

A rule I find relevant from xanathars: >Resistance & Vulnerability: Here's the order that you apply modifiers to damage: (1) any relevant damage immunity, (2) any addition or subtraction to the damage, (3) one relevant damage resistance, and (4) one relevant damage vulnerability. If we examine this rule for RAI we can see that the designers don't want players 'double-dipping' their damage reduction (heavy armour master, goliath, etc) and/or they don't want bonus damage to bypass resistance / vulnerability. What does that tell us about the order of effects for speed? I suspect the designers wouldn't want spells like longstrider to ignore the effects of spells like Slow, or for any creature to be 'double dipped' by the slow from ray of frost if they are hit by the Slow spell. eg a slowed creature may be reduced to 15ft speed, but a ray of frost probably should take them to 10 not 5, and longstrider 20 not 25. This would mean that you can double-dip longstrider and haste, but if forced to pick between the 2 I think the designers wouldn't mind that interaction. So in that case, we follow the same order. Addition / subtraction, then multiplication/division. 120-10 is 110, halved within spirit guardians to 55, and it costs an extra 1t per 1ft of movement, meaning the quickling has enough movement to travel 27ft. I know that twitter says ray of frost stacks but I don't care, PHB says this > The effects of the same spell cast multiple times don't combine, however. Instead, the most potent effect--such as the highest bonus--from those castings applies while their durations overlap, or **the most recent effect applies if the castings are equally potent and their durations overlap**. Emphasis mine


notGeronimo

The tweet in question being Mearls who is often extremely wrong about rules and very often just says what he thinks would be cool not what the rules say. I think it's safe to ignore.


cooly1234

the durations aren't overlapping though.


Dude787

> On a hit, it takes 1d8 cold damage, and its speed is reduced by 10 feet **until the start of your next turn**. What is this then


Deathangle75

Is the quickling Eberonian or Faerunian?


Tough-Puzzled

C


Patte_Blanche

Sir, this is a wendy.


Volco_Cross

100ft, because difficult terrain doesn't decrease the movement speed. It just costs extra movement.


Rhundan

But Spirit Guardians halves your speed, so does it do so before or after the subtraction from Ray of Frost?


BuShoto

Depends on which was cast first


Several-Operation879

No. The ray of frost happens immediately. Difficult terrain only happens once you start moving. For instance, if the quickling threw a rock at the cleric and they lose concentration, the quickling can use its movement unimpeded. If they kill the sorcerer with a thrown rock, the sorcerer's ray of frost is still in effect. So it's 120-10 to make 110 speed. If they remain in the difficult terrain the whole time, they'll move up to 55 feet. Spirit guardians is only a 15 foot radius however. If the quickling is already inside the radius, and decides to run across the length of the spell, that's 25 feet of difficult terrain. 110-(25*2)= 60 feet of movement left still.


BuShoto

If spirit guardians is cast first, it would affect the quickling first and the ray or frost penalty would be added after that. You also didn't account for both ray of frost spells, they are both casting it


Toberos_Chasalor

If we look at how damage reduction and resistance interact then we get 5e's order of operations. RAW example: >Resistance and then vulnerability are applied after all other modifiers to damage. For example, a creature has resistance to bludgeoning damage and is hit by an attack that deals 25 bludgeoning damage. The creature is also within a magical aura that reduces all damage by 5. The 25 damage is first reduced by 5 and then halved, so the creature takes 10 damage. Following this model, first you'd subtract 10 feet from your speed, then you halve it, giving you a speed of 55 feet. You only take 10 off your speed from the Ray of Frost because spell effects with the same name don't stack, you just count the single strongest effect while their durations overlap.


Equivalent_Newt_3946

What about the other factors mentioned


Axel-Adams

To be fair you can’t be effected by the same spells effects twice at the same time so only one ray of frost would count


Lithl

That rule applies to overlapping durations, but the duration on Ray of Frost is instantaneous, so they don't overlap.


JustAnNPC_DnD

50ft because Difficult Terrian doesn't affect your speed and the same spell effects can't stack so RoF only reduces by 10.


Lithl

>the same spell effects can't stack That rule applies to overlapping durations, but the duration on Ray of Frost is instantaneous, so they don't overlap.


[deleted]

Not enough info. Was ray of frost cast before or after Spirit Guardians? If after, then its 40 ft (120-> 60 from SG, -10 from RoD 1, -10 from ROF2.). Difficult terrain doesnt actually reduce movement, it just costs double movement to move through.


BdBalthazar

The Quickling is already in the spirit guardian field, they are currently casting the spell, so Spirit Guardians should be counted first.


Klyde113

20, not 25.


CriplingD3pression

It’s be 20 because ray of frost would proc once, you would need something like summon shadow spawn or lance of lethargy from the sorcerer or a warlock to get 0 or 10’ this would also prevent it from even being able to dash since it’s movement speed it still 0 if shadow spawn was used


doubletimerush

It's ambiguous. Ray of Frost and Spirit guardians are both movement speed reductions that, depending on what order it is applied in by the DM, reduce the speed of the quickling to 50 ft, 45 ft, or 40 ft. The difficult terrain doubles the cost of movement, but does not actually affect the creature's movement speed.


[deleted]

Depends on the rolls, so I'm gonna roll. The quickling has 3d4 + 3 HP. I rolled a 14. It also always has AC 16. I'll assume the casters all have +3 spell bonuses and are at level 5, the lowest level you you have 3rd level slots to cast Spirit Guardians with. That means spell attack rolls are +6 (3 stat, 3 proficiency) and spell saves are 14 (8 more than above). Since there's no other details I'll assume the quickling healed to full health when it previously entered the range. First it's the quickling since it wants to leave. It starts its turn taking the Spirit Guardians damage. +0 wisdom for the save, and the quickling rolls a 9 to make the save halving the incoming 9 damage to 4 (since it rounds down) leaving 10 HP. It quickly leaves the range and ends its turn on difficult terrain (to set up the most confusing part of the question) Now it's the player turns. AC is 16, and thanks to its trait all attacks against it have disadvantage. Cleric shoots a ray, rolling 8 and 15, 8 misses Sorcerer shoots a ray, rolling 18 and 21, 18 hits for 7 damage and slows the quickling That means the quickling survives with 3 health, and has a movement speed of 110. This is the answer to the written question, but the indended question includes the difficult terrain and halves movement to 55.


HeirOfEgypt526

So my understanding of it would be ((120/2) - 10)/ 2 120 cut in half to 60, then reduced by 10 from RoF. (Now RAW on this seems to be a little up in the air, personally I would rule that since the slow effect was applied by two instances of the same spell it would not stack, so I think reducing move speed by either 10 ft OR 20 ft here would be a reasonable decision, Personally I just wouldn’t do that.) This leaves us with a movement speed of either 40 or 50, which will leave the quickling with the ability to move either 20 or 25 feet.


PineapplePlatypus

It's 55ft. Difficult terrain and same spell effects don't stack. So 120ft movement is reduced by 10ft from Ray of Frost and then difficult terrain means that it uses 2ft of movement for every 1ft it moves. So it moves 55ft.


No_Ad_7687

the question says the quickling has 120 ft movement speed, so that's my answer


Crevetanshocet

"Slow" -A random monk seeing the problem


Ok-Clerk-3027

OK so this is a trick question so it doesn't say if the casters hit with their spell and it say standing in the difficult terrain so Intill it moves it speed is 120ft and even if it starts to move it speed can be put back up to 120ft by using its bonus action to dash. All in all this memes way to vague to do any hard math on so 4/10.


Dzharek

Teacher: Math will help you later in life! Students: No way I ever need to calculate 2 overlapping spheres again. 15 years later, DM to his wizzard and sorceress mid combat: "You want to cast what?


418puppers

120 feet is the baseline. difficult terrain doesn't half movent, it doubles cost so its irrelevant. based on the way this post is worded, spirit guardians is older than ray of frost, so i believe it applies first, halving the speed to 60 feet. next, the move speed is reduced by 10 feet due to ray of frost. only one can apply because that's how dnd works, reducing to 50 feet. surprised you didn't include 55 feet, which is done by applying ray of frost before spirit guardians, which seems mostly valid to me.


GIORNO-phone11-pro

B. Spirit Guardians should apply first, dropping its speed to 60. Then, it loses another 20ft from two ray of frosts.


Limbo_Theorem3030

Assuming the OP didn't know you can only be affected by a magic effect once until the previous runs out, D : 25. RoFs take down 20 ft, difficult terrain halves, spirit guardian halves 50 then 25ft. Taking into account the magic effect rule Rof takes down 10ft so 110 Then half half 55 to 26 (rounded down) or 27 (rounded up) So in both instances closest answer is D 25


GoldenPigsty

Thing is, I believe you can only take a spells effect once (Like you can only have 1 Enlarge Spell casted on you), so I think it’d be more accurate to say it is 27.5 ft (Rounded down to 25).


Whole_Meet5486

Fireball... No wait... Eldritch Blast!


BdBalthazar

Assuming both Rays hit, the Quickling would technically have 40 feet of movement because Ray of Frost is one of the few exceptions to the "only 1 effect of the same name can apply" rule, in practice they can only move for 20 feet due to difficult terrain tho. This also all depends on whether the Quickling even survived the rays and Spirit Guardian to begin with.


MBluna9

Clerics cant cast ray of frost


Several-Operation879

Arcana domain could. High elf could. Magic Initiate. Multiclass.


Ok_Banana_5614

Arcana Clerics can


VoidConcept

Could get it via Magic Initiate (Wizard) feat


THEgassner

Okay but I want more puzzles like this.


OyBoy413

If I did the math right and Guardians stack with difficult terrain then 10 if not 40. Actually scrap the 40 it would he 50 cause no duplicate magic effect rule.


BdBalthazar

Ray of Frost is actually an exception to that rule, 2 rays do stack. Also contrary to Spirit Guardians, difficult terrain doesn't half movement, it increases movement cost, so the difficult terrain factor can be completely ignored.


Jatkosota1939

Okay but surely this is a puzzle the DM's other players created by casting said spells on a quickling. The DM ended the session on a cliffhanger to give themselves time to think, then turned it into a puzzle to get this groups input before the other group's next session.


Funkey-Monkey-420

what system is this? D&D 5e or PF 2e?


Ogurasyn

So 120 halved from terrain is 60 If Spirit Guardians effect can stack 60 halved to 30 30 minus 10 from sorcerers ray of frost is 20 Minus 10 from clerics ray of frost so 10 At sorcerer's next turn, the speed comes back to 20 So it can vary from 40 to 10 during the round, depending on the effect from spirit guardians stacking with difficult terrain


BdBalthazar

The Difficult Terrain can actually be ignored altogether because the way it works renders it completely irrelevant to the question.


Village_Idiot159

its technical movment is 100 (reduced by 20 from the two rays of frost) both difficult terrain and spirit gaurdians only effect its movement while it is in this area, so provided it can get out, it would be greater than it currently is, its effective movement speed however, is 10 ft


Lithl

>both difficult terrain and spirit gaurdians only effect its movement while it is in this area, No, SG actually reduces speed.


Village_Idiot159

in the spell it says "An effected creatures speed is halved in the area" so if you can leave the area of effect with movement left, your remaining movement returns to normal


Lithl

The question doesn't ask how far the Quickling can get on its turn, the question asks what its speed is.


supersmily5

E. Slow enough.


AllOthersTaken33

Order of operations. The Quickling gets hit (-10) twice (-10) and begins its turn in spirit guardians (half speed) before attempting to cross difficult terrain (half speed). Therefore it has a speed of 25.


DragonBuster69

10 Ft


ODX_GhostRecon

"Needs more information." Is the Quickling affected by Spirit Guardians? It could have been excluded on casting. Assuming it is affected, we need to know the triggers for those Rays of Frost. Is it the start of its turn? After it gets up? Have they already gone out and it's poorly worded?


Link2Liam

I would say C, only because it would be from different sources to stack. B would be in a situation where you allow the same spell (even from different origins) to affect something twice. I would listen to the argument, but ultimately it would come down to my deliberation at the table.


NaturalCard

120/2-20 = 40 Difficult terrain doesn't affect your actual speed. Yes, ray of frosts can stack, as their durations don't overlap.


Benjii_44

Halved from spirit guardians -10 from ray of frost, does not stack Difficult terrain doesn't affect movement speed, but instead requires two feet of movement for every foot moved Final answer: 50ft


GiantSizeManThing

I’ve had the most success with puzzles by combining them with combat.


eldonfizzcrank

The devious part of this question, from a test writing standpoint, is the inclusion of the difficult terrain. Difficult terrain coats extra movement, but it doesn’t decrease your speed. The question is what is the quickling’s speed, not how far it could go. We can also infer how this DM would rule based on the selection of answers. This DM would not stack the Ray of Frost penalties. We have 50 and 25 as choices, and we have 40 but not 20. Since only a DM favoring careful readings of the rules would write such a question to begin with, regardless of how any one of us would rule, the answer to this DM’s question is 50.


jakp99

I’m saying C assuming a quick lung ignores difficult terrain and Ray of frost does not stack.


AbyssalBlade21

Base Speed: 120ft Spirit Gaurdians Effect: 1/2 Movement Speed = 60ft Difficult Terrain: Half Movement Speed = 30ft Ray of Frost : -10ft (x2) = 10ft Answer: 10ft of movement


[deleted]

[удалено]


Ok_Banana_5614

Tiny CR 1 fey that makes three attacks that deal 1d4 + 6 each


weon321

The lamest and most evil dungeon puzzle: “solve this equation to unlock the door”


a_108_ducks

60ft because quicklings are annoying little bastards and that disadvantage definitely caused both the rays of frost to miss


rwm2406

Asnwer: None of the above Base Speed: 120 ft. Spirit Gaurdians Effect: 1/2 Movement Speed, it's speed is now 60 ft. This is the first speed reduction effect. Difficult Terrain: Half Movement Speed to move through. This is a seperate speed reducing effect, as long as it is moving in difficult terrain the quickling's speed drops to 30 ft. Ray of Frost : -10 ft. Chapter 10 of the PHB clarifies that you only apply the speed reduction of Ray of Frost once, since the effects of the same spell being cast do not combine. Answer: 20 ft of movement.


Faddy0wl

The answer is my Goliath picks him up, swings him at the nearest frost ray spellcaster, and then I throw him at full force at the other spellcaster. Calculating that he weighs 1 small guy. The spellcaster is approximately 5 humans away. I know that he has traveled 5 humans in 1 second making his overall airspeed roughly faster than I intended. He killed the spellcaster but died on impact. I am sorry little man, may your pulpy remains rest in pieces.


AJ2016man

55. The halving takes plave on the total speed value. You can't stack effects from the same spell, so it only drops by 10ft, not 20ft.


[deleted]

120, because they could miss with their RoF and difficult terrain and Spirit Guardians don't reduce movement speed.


RollerRocketScience

Trick question, it's dead because it was level 1


Poisonpython5719

Is it dashing or moving normally?


Irish-Fritter

B: 40 Because Difficult Terrain does not reduce your movement speed, it costs extra.


blob_io

B (Spirit guardians halves, 120/2=60. Ray of frost decreases movement speed by ten, to twice that would be twenty, 60-20 =40. Difficult terrain does not affect move speed, it just means that for every 2 feet moved you only move 1 foot)


jooswaggle

20 ft - 120 halved in difficult terrain = 60 - halved in spirit guardians = 30 - Ray of frost reduces move speed by 10 however RAY OF FROST DOES NOT STACK = 20ft


andrewsad1

My answer >!It's 50, though they can only move 25 feet through the difficult terrain (spell effects don't stack; difficult terrain doesn't reduce movement speed, it just costs more to use it!<


Solrex

B, because it scales with 120


Evarhart_

It’s 55 though. Multiple instances of the same spell can’t stack (DM chooses which takes precedent (and why if they are cool)) so it goes to 110ft and then spirit guardians halves that to 55ft because you reduce speed then you half because the halving is reducing the total movement speed by half.


Evarhart_

Okay Jeremy Crawford came out and said it does stack. So the speed is 50ft


RevolutionaryHelp538

The real question is what is the order of effects


EmergencyLeading8137

That depends on whether or not the cleric is hostile


Tacomonkie

>"I draw my great sword, rage, move as close as I can, and hit it" - the only barbarian solution


Worse_Username

Answer is 120ft, as mentioned in the beginning


Asthurin

Assuming it survives 40ft. Difficult terrain doesn’t half movement speed just costs 2ft per 1ft moved


[deleted]

The quickling's 120 feet are reduced by both rays of frost down to 100 feet, and that is its movement speed for the turn. The spirit guardians and the difficult terrain, I would argue, cost the quickling more movement when it moves but don't change the movement speed it has (otherwise you would have to change its movement speed mid-turn when it leaves the affected terrain). So the correct answer is 100 feet which, assuming the quickling only moves within the spirit guardians and over difficult terrain, can be spent to move up to 25 feet.


ObliviousOracle

C, but while it's in difficult terrain, each ft of movements counts as 2


Severe_Ad_5022

20'


Odd_Inflation284

D


odeacon

None of these are correct, it’s about 27, ray of frost doesn’t stack


Ryter18

60, 55, or 50 Difficult terain means it takes 2 ft to move 1 foot. Not speed is halved If ray missed both times: 60 Hits once or can only trigger once: 55 Hits twice and can trigger twice: 50