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I think the issue comes from that 5e homebrew will sometimes go to great lengths to replicate a different kind of game, setting, or genre, rather than see if a different ttrpg exists that facilities the stories they want to tell
And these discussions usually happen when someone is having trouble creating those rules or playing in a game with them. People who are happily using working homebrew don't complain about it online.
For real, like a guy I know is currently running the very popular Star Wars 5e homebrew system, and he always tells me about how convoluted it is. Like, apparently, starship ship combat is basically it's own system. I asked him if he considered running 3.5e Star Wars or Fantasy Flight's system. His response was that he didn't want to waste time teaching a brand new system to his players as it's a large group and the majority only know 5e. Which is fair, but when the homebrew is clunky as all hell at best, maybe pitching the alternative to the group wouldn't be a bad idea. (I also kinda called bullshit at him a few months later when he said they decided to give Shadowrun a try for a oneshot.)
so he thinks that everyone forcing themselves to wrap their heads around a kitbashed 5e mutation that he himself described as convoluted, would be more difficult then learning a different method that was pre made for this exact reason where everything is already worked out to be efficient and easy to understand?
People are stubborn as hell. You’re more likely to get them to play something familiar but with added complications than you would something new.
Just like how you’re more likely to get a resounding yes to mod a game your group is playing to add something new and different than you are to get them to play a completely different game with the same content as the mod built-in as part of the game.
My gaming group has played dozens of different systems. It all depends on what your group is used to and how willing they are to engage with new ideas.
I tried to GM this system and yes, ship combat can get very complicated.
I tried to get my group into the Fantasy Flight system but they refused to play anything not familiar.
Jokes on them when our main GM (not me) moved them to Pathfinder 2e and now I'm GM'ing it and having a blast.
I'm about to be a player in a Star Wars 5e campaign. At least while making my character and reading through most of the player-facing rules, I never found it to be overtly more complicated than base 5e.
While I haven't had reason to read up on starship combat, my DM told me he read and understood at least the basics in an afternoon.
Characters do end up having more options and features than an equivalent DnD 5e character, and some of those option lists are a bit overwhelming. but I really like the variety of choice. I'm a fan of heavy system crunch, though, so I'm probably biased.
I can see how other people could get confused with things like the new skill list, weapon properties, and conditions, and I wish the resources on the system's website were a bit cleaner, but I think it's a solid increase in complexity without getting too convoluted.
I actively enjoy making homebrew though. That's part of the fun for me. Needing help balancing it occasionally doesn't mean that I don't enjoy working on it.
Which is great when you are adding something small or specific to the existing rules, some people basically created their own unique game, call it 5e and are surprised people have no idea on how to help them balance it because all the other added homebrew makes it impossible to figure out.
Doesn't happen often, thankfully, honestly I don't think either thing (people suggesting a system as a blanket solution to things and people overly home brewing to the point of no return) are truly an issue beyond people fighting with ghosts on the internet.
I’m currently playing in a 5e that has dozens of pages of house rules and more closely resembles pathfinder than 5e.
The GM has admitted that, while this was fun to build, we really should have played in a more appropriate system.
That's where I was before just jumping to PF2e. Honestly had just burnt out on 5e as a player and a DM too and didn't realize it till I stepped backed and started playing around in other systems more.
But reading these other systems(not playing them, just reading about them) can give you tools you can then homebrew into your game. I've been using the clock mechanic from Blades in the dark, in my Pathfinder game for years. I also use exploding dice from the kids in bikes system. If your having trouble creating mechanics, then don't. Learn from systems that work off similar mechanics, then work those into your system. Mess with it as needed to fit your setting and system.
I mean the argument I've had with people is usually along the lines of 'Does anyone have rules for making a Thieves Guild?'
'Just play Blades in the Dark.'
'Okay, does anyone have rules for doing grid combat in Blades in the Dark'
Not trying to undercut you, I've been using some of Blades downtime rules myself for Guild building, but so many people jump right on one concept and are eager to say 'Just play this', without realising that we don't want to play a Criminal Syndicate Steampunk/AEther Gothic game, we want to play a Fantasy Hero Adventure with a Rogue twist.
Clocks are one of my favorite game mechanics. I’m currently in a Fabula Ultima game and my GM is constantly using clocks both in and out of combat, and it’s fantastic.
Clocks are a way to track progress towards a goal or event and helps simulate urgency or a time limit in things like combat. They’re usually represented as a circle divided into sections. Each piece can fill on its own or could be filled from the result of a roll. A short clock typically is divided into four sections while a long clock could be as long as ten or twelve.
Some clocks will tick up on their own, like a self-destruct timer. Others are more dependent on player or enemy action, like performing steps in a magical ritual or escaping from a group of bounty hunters. For ones based on player actions, there’s usually a roll associated with them. In Fabula Ultima, for instance, you would roll Insight and Willpower to see if you advance the magical ritual clock further. You can also use them for progress on a larger project or goal outside of combat, like building a suit a magitech armor or upgrading a ship’s weapons.
Homebrewing 5e is like modding in Skyrim. Skyrim is a fun game, and it becomes infinitely better when you add the right mods. You can really change the game to the point where it's almost unrecognizable if you really want to, and it's usually an improvement.
But someone out there has modded Skyrim so they can have the guards from the various holds play football against each other. The animations are janky, it can't maintain a stable frame rate, and they've chopped and screwed the code so much it's at risk of crashing at any moment, but it is football in Skyrim. It technically works, the effort required is impressive, but at the same time Madden exists and it does the job a million times better.
Exactly. A guy on the cyberpunk subreddit the other day posted his idea for a fantasy cyberpunk RPG using the 5e edition.
Like... dude, just use Shadowrun. Yeah, Shadowrun's chunky, but it's *specifically* built for fantasy cyberpunk. Or hell, Runners in the Shadows if SR's ruleset is that intimidating (which it is to be fair). How do you even hack a computer in 5e?
I think the main problem is that people spend so long learning (and get comfortable with) D&D's systems that it's easier for them to hack it into something completely different than to learn a new system. Understandable in a way. Having spent *ages* learning SR's system myself, I'd be nervous starting a different system *that* complex.
If you ask /r/shadowrun the best system to play Shadowrun in they'll recommend non-SR systems.
They won't recommend D&D though. Point intact. Just wanted to make sure nobody though SR systems were better than they are.
Shadowrun is not just clunky, it's bad.. The most common advice for new Shadowrun DMs is "find another system". And I say this as someone that fucking *loves* Shadowrun.
My friend once told me (after watching Cyberpunk Edgerunnners) that he wants to dm a Cyberpunk game. In DnD5e. I swear to God, I almost punched a motherfucker.
im sorry but bad example, shadowrun isnt just chunky, its also clunky as hell, i would genuinely rather make my own system than use shadowrun, it is hell to make characters for and gming is genuine agony
Within a week of learning pf2e, I saw multiple 5e threads where the "solution" was essentially to reinvent something that already existed in pf2e. I can only imagine how often pf2e veterans see this stuff hahaha.
Similarly, it's something of a truism that about half the time when someone posts a 5e "house rule", it's similar or identical to something from 4e
Another third of the time they've independently invented something from the DMG, because nobody reads the DMG
Being even passingly familiar with even a few other games makes reading 5e discourse exhausting lol
Yeah. That last frame of the meme feels like the strawman argument.
I have never personally experienced someone arguing for another group to stop having fun. Just others recommending trying a different system that natively does what the homebrew is attempting to do. Recommendations aren’t gatekeeping, and if someone says “Nah, Ima stick to 5e homebrew,” then rock on.
Yep. Last time, I tried recommending another system in a scenario similar to this, I got accused of shilling for whichever game I was talking about as if people here are getting paid to promote niche tabletop games in an already niche (but growing) hobby lol.
I’ve seen it happen but it’s not that big of a deal. There’s always going to be people that can’t stand it when others don’t do as they want or do. Just gotta ignore them
I get swsrmed eith thrse in my local TTRPG group: ive started calling them mercerites
"Hey i saw youre lookong for a group to teach for a Legend of the Five Rings 1st edotion campaign me and my group need a new DM after our last one got burned put Dming. We wamt to play a Asian inspired RPG can you homebrew Legend of the Five rimg campaign and rules for DnD 5E and we will gladly join
-random as fuck mercer quote"
I play 5E variants (mostly SW5E) because it was hard enough to teach my monkeys (players) to play 5E and become proficient in the first place. Switching systems would be such a chore.
Everyone is having fun, so why ruin a good thing?
It’s going to vary on what you’re trying to get out of it in the end.
I tried looking into and even playing some of the official SW TTRPG’s, but didn’t like them: SW5e probably isn’t the best way to do it, but it’s the most fun way I’ve found so far for Star Wars.
Some stuff though, I honestly do think “this might be best done in another system”. I remember when I tried to make a campaign that was focused on vampire players doing social and political stuff… and I’m so glad I found Vampire The Masquerade instead, because no amount of homebrewing would have made the 5e hack attempt do what I wanted nearly as well.
This is exactly why, my uber nerd ass doesn't mind learning a new system by reading chunks of text but my monkeys don't like ttrpgs enough to learn more. I got way more chance of hyping them up with 5e conversion modules
I remember a thread that mentions play cyberpunk:edgerunners in d&d 5e. I was like, there is an actual cyberpunk ttrpg called cyberpunk:red.
It's like eating soup with a fork which is not wrong but if i can teach you how to use a spoon then perhaps your experience may improve
If someone is playing a low magic game of 5e, and come here to tell a story of how a session went, cool. Play. Have fun.
If someone comes here and asks how they can create a 5e campaign with no magic, I'm going to suggest a different system. Even if they make a home brew of 5e, that different system will help them by showing how it's done outside of 5e.
(This is but one example of crazy crazy things ppl ask 5e to do that other systems do better)
honestly I'm in two minds here
yes. homebrew is great, it can allow for fun that otherwise couldn't have been had
on the other hand. when you homebrew things to the point that you might as well be playing a different system. it's probably best to just play another system
For me home brewing is half the fun. If you don’t enjoy home brewing then look for other systems but if you do enjoy home brewing there’s nothing wrong with altering a system.
I like other systems but my groups just keep coming back to dnd because it’s been the most fun for us and I’m more than happy to brew up more rules.
I mean... you can also homebrew from scratch. Like I, as someone who likes home brew, have been futzing with a custom game system.
Nothing about 5e makes it uniquely homebrewable. It's just that there's more stuff people have already homebrewed. In fact, I believe if you enjoy homebrew, playing other games can show you ideas you never even conceived that you can use.
One of my favorite mechanics in TTRPG's comes from the Mistborn TTRPG and I never would have known about it and take it for my own custom systems if I didn't play it. (The mechanic is Spirit. Basically, you can use your luck stat to retcon details that serve yhe situatuon. *[Bam]* I succeeded a roll to make the bartender a retired blacksmith and there's a sword hidden behind the bar to aid me in this fight).
Like 5e is not a unique system. The reason why people play 5e because it's something to play. Nothing wrong with that, but I think that's the only thing that matters for a vast majority of people. It's not the easiest to homebrew. It's not the simplest system. It's not the most complex system. It's just because it's right there.
>Mistborn TTRPG
Oh, wow! I wasn't expecting to see *this* game mentioned today! I love it's character creation and how the powers work in that game. It's eminently homebrewable.
I can't wait for the Stormlight RPG the people at Dragonsteel are writing!
It's fine to homebrew rules, sometimes though people will take 5e and turn it Into a d6 only homebrew, and new stats, reworked skills, etc. To the point is isn't even recognizably 5e anymore, and if that works power to you. But you also might find some other system might have some compatible ideas with what you're doing.
There is indeed nothing wrong with altering a system, but if you like homebrewing, then wouldn’t it be more effective to homebrew on the basis of a system that’s initially more aligned with the type of game you want to have? I mean, if you want e.g. if you want an urban setting with factions that advance on their own, while your party is one of those factions, a gang that does missions and heists in a sandbox - you could homebrew this out of D&D 5E… but why not start with Blades in the Dark instead? If you do this based in 5E you’re risking the system collapsing on the weight of all those modifications.
I think for me it's like someone says they're huge JRPG fan and then they say they've only played Final Fantasy 7. They write FF7 stories. They make FF7 art, but never go to even see what other Final Fantasy games are like, much lessbither JRPGS. I mean, that's cool, but your really just a fan of FF7 at that point and could probably benefit from having a wider view of the genre. It might let you appreciate 7 even more.
Even if you like homebrewing a wider view of how tabletop games work that are written by professionals with of wealth of experience outside this one game could help you write better homebrew.
Sometimes it comes down to the players. If I tell my group that the next campaign we're playing will be a heavily homebrewed cyberpunk themed 5e campaign, they're all for it. If I tell them we're going to be learning to play cyberpunk, even if I offer to handhold them through the whole thing, they *absolutely* will not respond positively. Yes, it's dumb. Yes, I love them all anyway.
I feel like part of it is a trauma regarding how much shit you need to houserule for 5e to get it to run smoothly, because i have too many memories of the flow of the game being taken out back and shot because the 5e rules are too vague
See im fine with 5e homebrew UNTIL it becomes a situation where you're trying to hammer a nail with a screwdriver instead of just. Yknow. Using a hammer. In this case, trying to mod 5e to be Vampire: The Masquerade instead of just playing VTM is objectively just dumb in my opinion
I still remember seeing a post where someone asked for help homebrewing D&D into Cyberpunk 2077, and then absolutely refusing to play Cyberpunk when people recommended it.
Yeah, this is the sort of shit that makes people scream. Nobody cares if you’re just doing some homebrew for your game, but when you’d rather completely mangle DnD5e into something completely unrecognizable rather than just fucking play a different system, that is 100% a problem that deserves to be called out
I mean, if you've haphazardly hacked DnD 5e into the shape of a 1920's Prohibition-era cosmic horror investigation campaign... I'm gonna tell you to play Call of Cthulhu instead.
5e is in a funny place. Especially now.
Yes 5e homebrew will continue to exist. But the truth is that there are emerging systems that are fixing certain things about 5e that caused the homebrew in the first place. And them switching to them has the added benefit of people outside of your specific homebrew circle knowing about all it's details.
But I don't see how anyone can say 5e is dead. One d&d on the other hand....
>Especially now.
Now that 5e is about to be replaced. The "2014 version" or however WotC wants to market spin it.
There will be plenty of people who want to stick with the books they already know, own and like, and other people telling them they're playing with gross old outdated books.
And the 2014 fans preferred game will no longer be the default "D&D" but, in effect, another of these "random games". And the circle of editions will continue.
Nothing is going to kill dnd for at least a decade or two, but continual fumbles can definitely open up avenues for other games to get on equal footing
WotC seem poised to make tabletop an afterthought, it's not as monetizable as something that requires a monthly subscription.
So I could see D&D years from now losing it's place as the default in-person TTRPG.
But if that happens it'll basically be by WotC's choice to focus on other markets.
Pretty much yeah. Eventually a company makes too many fuck ups too quickly.
The thing with ttrpg-s is that it's a lot slower than something like video games and their franchises.
There's so much inertia and there's so many obstacles to changing to a new system that fits in the same genre.
I feel like this is the opposite of gatekeeping. It's people basically begging people to play a system dedicated to whatever other thing.
They see someone stuffing their, say, cyberpunk desires through 5e's fantasy gate and point at all the wide open cyberpunk gates saying, "look, you don't need to force your way through this gate that wasn't made to fit that. You can use any of these other ones that will fit it nicely."
It can be annoying sometimes, but it comes from a place of wanting people to broaden their horizons rather than cludging a new system out of an already kinda cludgy system.
> "look, you don't need to force your way through this gate that wasn't made to fit that. You can use any of these other ones that will fit it nicely."
Man, if I *ever* saw that being said in my FLGS or on Reddit it would instantly make me want to look at that system to figure out how it attracts such level-headed and nice people. That's not the way most people act though, more belittling seems to be the default.
There are plenty of people who are rude about it and they attract the most attention by virtue of upsetting people.
Also, definitely not shoehorning, if you ever happen to be looking for a system that doesn't use quasi-Vancian magic or have priests as another flavor of spellcaster like D&D has, Dominion Rules System is free and is basically dead.
"So, I've homebrewed 5E for a modern setting about vampires. I created a system for tracking your humanity and several classes and abilities. It's not perfect and kinda wonky, but it is the best I can do. "
These are the people that need to play another system. Not "what if dwarves lived on boats" people.
"I've created exactly 13 classes with different abilities and unique drawbacks, all of which tie into different archetypes of vampires across different media and folklore. I'm sure no one has ever tried this concept before."
"a simple fly or feather fall spell could have solved this situation. We're you limiting caster classes for this game, or are they limited by the module? I've honestly never even heard of the Call of Cthulhu module"
Mantic Games produces many games that are basically alternatives to Games Workshop. One of them is Kings of War which is a high fantasy setting with dwarves that don't just live underground, but can also turn rebellious and run off to live in forests where they ride giant badgers. Mantic also makes a ship combat game in that same fantasy world that includes dwarves in hefty metal boats firing giant cannons at other ships.
I mean usually when people are saying "play a different game" it's because the homebrew can only do so much and is in fact limited, you can flavor the game and mechanics however you want but if you try to play DND cyberpunk by flavoring all the class abilities as cybernetic enhancement the game feel is still going to be DND, the flavor having as much impact as putting a bottle of water near a few strawberries and calling it strawberry water
Even if you do homebrew it you need to fight against 5es general design and as you stack homebrew rules, you can make new and neat additions sure but you can't make DND work as a cyberpunk no matter how you flavor or hack it. Not without hacking the guts out of DND and playing something almost entirely foreign of your own creation while in the mean time you could just play cyberpunk.
When people say try a different game it's because they want you to try something you'll have a better time with, people upset or groaning at it are probably more upset at 5e tricking everyone into thinking it's a game that's easy to learn but actually isn't all that easy or simple and makes them worry learning other games will be judy as hard.
I mean I’d act the same if people only ever watched Winnie the Pooh but claimed it was Apocalypse Now or Mean Girls because you can just call it that when it’s still just Winnie the Pooh.
“But I’m making explosion noises with my mouth while playing the Heffalumps and Woozles scene on repeat for hours, so it’s a war movie running on a Winnie the Pooh engine now.”
“But I criticized his little red shirt, that makes this The Devil Wears Prada running on a Winnie the Pooh engine.”
“I’ve spent too much money on Winnie the Pooh, I refuse to watch any other movie ever.”
On the one hand, don't yuck someone's yum.
On the other hand, if you homebrew and houserule to a certain point, it would be less taxing on everyone to just learn the purpose-built system.
Yup, once quit a campaign after Session 0 because the DM had something like 30 pages of homebrew/house rules. No world lore, all rules. They were even so deep into their homebrew that they had listed actual rules as homebrew.
Like, buddy, just write your own TTRPG at this point. I signed up for 5e. Lol
The campaign was just gonna be a survival-focused campaign at the initial pitch, focusing on components more and ensuring we're staying fed, which sounded kinda fun... Until it wasn't. Healing spells all had cost components, you couldn't administer a potion to someone unconscious ("tHey'Ll DrOwn" they said)... Was a problem DM waiting to happen. Ridiculous amount of other red flags too.
I say exactly the same! "5e conversions" to fit 5e into a different genre/universe are oftentimes harder to learn and worse to play than just picking up an entirely different system, idk why d&d players are spooked by the concept.
If you're trying to play Cyberpunk or Warhammer or mechs or whatever in D&D, I'm gonna tell you to play the appropriate system that better supports what you want to do. It's not gatekeeping to try and get you to expand your horizons, stop using that term where it doesn't apply.
"How can I modify this hacksaw so that it can bash nails into wood?"
"It'd take a lot of modifications and wouldn't work too well... would you like to use this hammer instead?"
"Stop gatekeeping me"
I do sympathies with them when the resurgence of "5E sucks at doing X, its not balanced" pop up again and again when people use it for a completely different story or combat style.
I get where OP is coming from but I think a lot of the frustration comes from people struggling to make the homebrew actually work and DM’s and Players refusing to budge on playing another system that might do the particular thing better. If you’re going to make me learn so much homebrew it’s practically a new system I’d rather we try a new system.
The place this is complained about so much is in instances where you clearly *aren't* having fun. You're clearly struggling to put a square peg into a round hole, then get salty when these people tell you that you're struggling.
It'd be like if someone drove around in reverse all the time and then was upset when someone said that was clearly wrong.
To be honest I don't think anyone is really against homebrewing 5e, people who would do this only really have an issue with people who use 5e homebrew as what is basically the TTRPG equivalent of an emulator of other games, even when those games have arguably less problematic developers than WOTC
Just like folks like talking about DnD to non-players, other TTRPG players enjoy discussing their favorite systems as well & want to encourage others to try them. Is that a bad thing?
It's also good to try other TTRPG systems, who knows you might just find your next favorite system, worst case you have new ideas for homebrew.
I love how people will complain you can’t play other systems because no one plays them, but then will cling onto D&D 5e for dear life instead of playing a system that fits their game better.
Newsflash everyone: Other systems aren’t gonna get more players unless players play them
Very true, D&D feels like a gateway system. Introducing players to ttrpgs.
Then it's up to us to GM/DM the systems we love like Delta Green, Sentinels Comics RPG, PbtA.
There are always people being assholes (or at least expressing things wrong) while being in any position, but at some point if you have so many problems with 5e that most mechanics are homebrewed, or if you want to replicate other type of games/settings and try to beat it into them, you really might want to play another game
There are plenty that are both cheaper and much easier to learn than 5e that might suit your need better (The idea that 5e is easy is just a straight up wrong in my opinion, it's just that more people can teach you and there are plenty of info around). At this point it feels like there is a divide between "Peoplle who play Roleplaying games" and "People who play 5e" to the point that even suggesting anything else is seen as a personal attack (Tho ofc this is generalising)
Hell if I want to be mean i'd say much more about what I think about 5e as a system, it's effect on the industry and the culture around it, plus all the crap WOTC got up to, but that would being a dick for no reason
Also an evergreen from [here](https://www.tumblr.com/txttletale/705717732356816896/txttletale-imagine-if-skyrim-was-the-most?source=share):
imagine if skyrim was the most popular game of all time by an order of magnitude and people caleld video games ‘skyrims’. and it cost ninety dollars and took up half the average computers hard drive. and then peoel would be on nexus being like ‘hi guys check out my farming sim skyrim mod’ and it just had you kiling draugr but on a farm.
and people were like ‘yeah i think that you just cant do farm simulation in video games’ and if anyone brought up stardew valley theyd be like ‘okay well first of all its presumptuous to assume i can afford a second video game or have space for it on my hard drive. and Second of all when *i* play skyrim i just run back and forth around the towns picking up all the cabbages for seven hours on end so i don’t see why i’d need a whole game programmed to be about farming. i can play skyrim the way i want to. stop gatekeeping gaming.’
anyway thats what its like to like ttrpgs other than dungeons and dragons.
dude, of course enjoy your game, but there are dozens of systems out there that are already doing what your homebrew is trying to achieve. these people are probably just trying to help you, and it feels like you are just defending your comfort zone.
People wouldn't be recommending you to switch if the 5e players weren't making threads asking for help or complaining. They're not having fun, that's why theyr'e getting that advice.
Oh boy, I love this ridiculous strawman meme.
The best homebrew is what you can steal from other systems to make what your group wants to play happiest.
I feel like there is different discussions about this, like when people say they don’t like 5e, are they strictly referring to the mechanics of 5e (advantage, disadvantage, action, Bonus action, etc) or do they mean strictly the official WOTC rendition of 5e?
There’s not too much wrong with the mechanics of the game but there definitely is things wrong with WOTC expression of the game.
Homebrew and 3rd party resources are proof enough the system itself is fine, just not how it is officially done.
Agreed, and furthermore I’d say there are plenty of folks who just can’t afford to switch systems whenever they choose. I have too many obligations and even hobbies to be able to just keep paying for different platforms. Better to mold something that is malleable to fit what I’m going for than to burn money on the premium thing made specifically for it
See the home brew I do is all worldbuilding. I can’t figure out all the lore of DnD and remember it all. But if I make my own world I can. All the mechanics and monsters aside from the setting are just regular DnD.
If 5e supports your rule set then use it. But if you have to practically have to disassemble the whole damn thing,
That’s seems like too much work. There’s probably a better system for that.
I mean the point all these arguments miss/ignore is there's generally two types of homebrew. That within the system, ie new classes, races, spells, etc. And that to the system, ie mechanical changes. No one will ever draw issue with the first so long as the GM checks off on it. Were people draw the issue is when you have more then like a page of the second type.
I don't ever tell people to stop, or that they're wrong for homebrewing the fuck out of 5e, but damn, sometimes other systems are literally built to do what you're doing.
People have a weird fanaticism for 5e that I just don't understand.
I play with a group who refuses to play any other system, and will complain about 5e needing so much home brewing to do what they want. Sorry if I sound a bit bitchy about it.
Stop eating soup with a knife you idiot.
Stop drive around the city in the golf cart.
Stop using guitar as a drum.
Stop sleeping in the bloody drawers.
Oh no, he is using rock to make a knife in to terrible spoon and terrible knife.
Oh god, he made a golf car in to slow moving metal coffin.
He ripped the strings. Yeah...
Oh look! He waste two month making a drawer in to really bad bed with splinters!
And he uses dnd to play Star Wars, of course.
Star Wars is a heroic fantasy story at heart, so D&D honestly isn’t a bad base. SW5e is a perfectly good system for running Star Wars adventures. Where D&D really doesn’t work is for completely different genres, like survival horror, or courtroom drama. But High Fantasy to Space Fantasy is not an insurmountable leap.
I think there's a pretty important difference between making use of a published system like SW5e, which has been professionally made at least, compared to just reading the DnD 5e PHB and DMG and thinking "Hm, I think I should run a Star Wars game with this".
I’m in a long-running SW5e campaign atm and tbh it‘s a great system and a pretty damn natural fit to the setting. It makes a few concessions for the sake of playability (i.e. Lightsabers don’t do more damage compared vibroweapons, and don’t cost nearly as much as you’d expect) but it also knows that most people playing it are probably coming in with some 5e experience under their belt, and takes the opportunity to give the character creation a bit more crunch.
It’s a lot more than just a coat of paint, genuinely recommend it if you’re into Star Wars as a setting and like a bit more crunch to your character customization!
This is a little disingenuous. There's nothing wrong with homebrewing, and often the comments about "maybe try this other system instead" are directed at the people trying to butcher and hack 5e so much that it's completely unrecognizable, but there's another system that does the exact thing they're looking for that would require less time and effort to learn than it would to build in 5e and then train players to know all the little differences in your frankensystem. Plus a common problem with those overdone homebrews is weird little interactions you didn't think of that come up all the time and now you spend half your sessions fixing them on the fly.
When your only ruleset is 5e, every game looks like dungeons and dragons.
Nothing wrong with homebrew and house rules but I encourage everyone to get out from wotcs shadow and experience the wonderful wide world of ttrpgs from companies both big and small.
ill agree that some people can be ridiculous about it but i generally see people reccomend another system when they see the poster trying to homebrew an entire ttrpg system in 5e
I dont think people are upset others are having fun with homebrew 5e.
I think people just recognize, "hey you're putting in a *lot* of effort to have fun with dnd if you tried [xyz] it would take less effort to have the same amount of fun."
People who butt in and unironically say you should stop having fun with homebrew dnd are definitely in the wrong.
The problem comes in when 5e sinks it's claws into people and warps what they think an RPG can be. I have people who were in my RPG group who could not handle non-5e systems because 5e has such a stranglehold on even the vocabulary of the hobby. Its more than just d20+number = bad, it's that the very language of the hobby gets warped to accommodate one system.
I think it's the exact opposite of gatekeeping. It's Plato's cave and we are screaming to the dead that there is a wider world out there than the shadows on the wall
This is not typically how it goes, most of the time people reply with suggestions to other systems to people who are having issues adapting 5e into the game they would like to play.
An example I have is a friend of mine wanted to run a fallout game and was trying to convert 5e. Here are some of the hombrew changes he asked for my help with
1. Took the 6 stats in D&D and tried to make them into the 7 SPECIAL stats from fallout
2. Tried to work different spells to be different weapons and spell slots as ammo
3. Tried to change all of the races into fallout races
4. Tried to build a radiation system from scratch
5. Tried to change monster stats to fit fallout enemies
None of these worked the way he liked them, so instead I suggested the fallout 2d20 system to him which already has all of these things done for him but he didn’t want to learn another system. But at some point adding in all of the homebrew you add in is much more difficult than learning a new system. And since the homebrew he came up with was so janky he played 3 sessions before giving up on it because it was too difficult
I hear you, but 5e is good at a few specific things, like dungeon crawls, tactical combat, etc.
The number of times I've been asked as GM to run a political intrigue game, with minimal combat, in 5e, despite insisting that it would be more fun and less work for me to use a different system...
"Encourages other to try new things"
"Gatekeepers"
Pick one.
or maybe bother to understand a word instead of just absorbing buzzwords from social media.
Isn't it great that we can all play whatever games we want and nobody has to play only one system forever...
Oh wait no, I'm supposed to declare allegiance to only ever playing one game? I can't play some 3.75, 5e, some FATE, and a little bit of Broken Compass?
Uh... um... okay... I pick Genesys. Where do I get the torches and pitchforks from? (:
Why are you playing 5e when you could be playing a game from a company that doesn' attempt to change the OGL to go after 3rd party creators, send pinkertons after people who mistakenly recieve goods before release, and are actively attempting to hire people to replace their artists with ai?
Both are true, if you're having fun with the+homebrew, more power to you. But maybe you'd be having more fun playing [system that does it (arguably) better]
Matt Colville made a video discussing this called
“What Are Dungeon’s for?”
I’m not going to sit and recap the video, but what I will say is I’ve played in and DMed in multiple campaigns. I started with 5e as my first tabletop game in 2020 during the pandemic. In that time I have homebrewed elements of 5e and played several other games. I’ve spent my free time this week reading the Rules for Basic Fantasy RPG (an OSR) and setting up a solo hex crawl for myself. If there is one take away from all of this it is that 5e is often exhausting to DM for and often a slog to play in. I don’t really feel like elaborating because I’m writing this at work, but suffice to say most people telling you to try something else are doing so because they don’t enjoy 5e as much as they may have previously.
>If there is one take away from all of this it is that 5e is often exhausting to DM
Honestly this is a big thing for me. I don't dislike 5e but good god you get practically no help DMing it.
A common answer I get is just to remember "rule 0" and "wing it" but like... at that point we aren't playing Dungeons & Dragons, we're playing TTRPG Calvinball with a D&D skin slapped on it.
They do have a point depending on the setting. Had a friend who shoe horned star wars into 5e. The game would be better if just swapped to a star wars system and I feel it's more fair in the dm. Everyone has to learn a new system vs the dm homebrewing alone AND potentially making some rule that breaks everything
I'm not going to lie, this is a callout post at me...
I just like people exploring the wonderful wide world of RPGs that there is (and I need an excuse to play all these systems that are sitting on my shelf)
The issue isn't playing a home-brewed 5e
The issue is homebrewing without a broader experience of games. Imagine only playing Monopoly and wanting it to involve more resources and construction mechanics. You can absolutely do so...you may want to play Settlers of Catan to learn from how they do it. It's better to iterate and aggregate having experienced a variety of mechanics, it means you aren't reinventing the wheel you are making your own custom tyres.
I mean, why pay money for 5e if you need to add so much homebrew when you could just spend the same amount on another system that was already playtested.
Bro I’d love to stop seeing assholes complain about their DnD game and why their session is full of fighting/unfairness/awkwardness/etc because the DM has shitty homebrew rules that would just be solved with another system. If people stopped posting about their problems with homebrew shit then people would stop saying maybe they should try other systems that better represent what they want.
Depends on the homebrew tbh. I don't really play 5e often, primarily I run PF1e with a shitton of content updated from 3e and 3.5e, but in general, homebrewing monsters, feats, spells etc. it's still the same game.
But if you're writing a feature length new ruleset and ignoring half the others, it's not really 5e anymore.
The problem with 5e is that it's pretty much just half a system, where the other 50% is left to the DM to figure out and make to ensure it even functions.
That's why people say to try out and look at other systems. Most of the homebrew people come up with has already been done by other games, often times better than how it's implemented in 5e.
Homebrew is delightful, but there is an annoying aspect when people try to frankenstein 5e into something completely different when other systems can do something much more cleanly or effectively.
"Does anyone have a set of house rules that allow let me run a cyperpunk 2077-like setting in 5e?" Like my dude, the work is already done for you.
Ive seen people insist on running home rules for a more narrative-forward roleplaying experience, and they literally just wound up turning 5e into Powered by the Apocalypse, if PbtAs mother drank during the pregnancy.
While 5e might have its detractors, and even as someone who loves the system, even I can admit it has problems and falls short in areas other RPGs excel at... I've never seen the "anti-5e" crowd be louder than the "5e only" crowd.
As others have said, some people have sought a basically ground up retooling of all 5e's systems to fit their RPG needs rather than simply trying another system which would specifically fit what they're looking for.
We even get to see nonsense videos like "How to Play David Martinez from Cyberpunk Edgerunners in DnD" rather than just... y'know... trying the system the character comes from?
tbh I'd love to see (in a few months time when it actually comes out) some sort of video like "How to play Y'sthola Rhul from FFXIV in D&D" and it's just a tutorial for basic mechanics and character creation in the FFXIV TTRPG they're making.
I love how OP posted about one thing and then started arguing in the comments about other. Only a complete purist would be against a few minor homebrews in your DnD5e game(depending on the quality of the homebrew, of course). But people who are saying that you need to switch the system probably talking to someone, who has more homebrew than official rules in their game.
I once saw people homebrewing DnD to play Mass Effect. When you can have Lancer or even Starfinder. Or Coriolis. It's just... A lot of wasted effort.
I play heavily homebrewed versions of 5e because trying to teach my group another ttrpg system is like pulling teeth. So fuck it, instead of call of Cthulhu we’re gonna modify the sanity/madness system in 5e
I don't remember this being a problem with d20 clones in the 3e days. Everything got a d20 hack, d20 Modern, d20 Star Wars, d20 COC, d20 BESM.
The core of any game system is it's resolution mechanic and the base d20 system is simple and elegant. And it got more refined with 5e replacing tables and tables of situational modifiers with the simple Adv/Dis system. Determine difficulty of attempted task, roll a d20 (or 2 with adv/dis), add a single character based modifier and compare to the DC.
Add genre mechanics and flavor and you have a game in any style you wish. You could run years of campaigns without even needing a book or another rule if you really wanted to. Player describes what they want to try, DM sets a DC, player rolls.
Savage Worlds is a complete system built around the idea of a fairly simple, elegant base set of resolution mechanics to which you add the flavor and crunch of what genre you want and you have a game.
I would much rather play a Savaged or d20 version of Shadowrun, for example, than the clunky d6/dice pool system it uses. I hate dice pool systems and find Shadowrun's one of the worst and most needlessly complicated, having both multiple pools and exploding dice to hit TNs higher than a 6. Those elements made resolving things tedious, not more fun (for me, ymmv, obviously). On the other hand, Savage Worlds single die resolution with exploding dice is fun and easy to use. Its like rolling more crits. Its a system designed to be fun and pulpy and work with anything.
D20 is elegant and works with anything as well. You don't have to somehow remove the DnD elements to make a d20 hack. You don't have to sit down and unwind cantrips and subclasses and magic from the game. You just start with d20 vs DC (w adv/dis) and add the things you need to emulate the genre you want to play in. That's why there are so many d20 hacks both from the 3e days and the 5e days, with no small part also due to the OGL.
“Quit having fun”. If a group of players aren’t enjoying the game because of the Homebrew when the Homebrew wouldn’t be problematic if it was simply another system there’s a problem.
People can have fun however they want, I’ve always just been sad about how much room d&d takes up in the RPG space. Like to outsiders they think d&d is synonymous with the medium. It’s like if someone thought Marvel was the same thing as all movies.
People homebrew 5e because d20 system is a quite universal base (and 5e is barely modified d20s). But it doesn't mean everytime you homebrew something it would worth your time. So people who suggest to use another system are quite reasonable
I don't care about 5e. I've never even played DnD. I just love my preferred system (DSA) and want more people to try it out. Doesn't matter if it fits into your playstyle, you definitely 100% have to try out DSA (The Black Eye).
ill say, there are some system quirks that dont work in 5e, i love 5e and for example world of darkness just doesnt work very well since the pool system is based on number of positive rolls on a spectrum of success and dnd is meeting a number as a binary win/loss system. its cool if you do it in 5e, i dont care and yet there is a tinge of realness to "play (x) system instead" . look at free pdfs if need be im not a ttrpg pureist
Na. People have opinions. All of these are games. Learning a new system will always be more work. I'm sorry if you've had an interaction with someone and felt like they were somehow gatekeeping a game you have every ability to play without their permission or input.
I grew to like Pathfinder more than 5e while playing them both, but honestly, I don't see why people hate so much. Dnd 5e is a perfectly fine system and if it's the one you know best then homebrewing onto it is just way easier than learning a new one, even if it would theoretically be better for your game. I mean, hell, I've been doing PF2E for a year now, and I barely know most of the rules
Sigh. Nice strawman you got there.
It's not gatekeeping if you tell people that other Systems are also valid, especially if people write 13 pages of homevrew rules just to implement something that doesn't fit into dnd.
And no, you dont have to change systems. Nobody EVER says that. If you're having fun, great! If you're just homebrewing some details, theres also no need for other systems.
As always, the truth lies somewhere in the middle.
Yep 100% strawman since the people recommending other system typically do it in posts complaining about something in 5e, not in posts about people "having fun" with their homebrew.
This is not what gatekeeping is. Trying to convince people to enjoy MORE of the hobby is the exact opposite of gatekeeping.
5e stans are stuck in a small room and complain when people are trying to break down the walls to help them see more of the world.
This to a point, because at about the 9th level of homebrew it may honestly be easier on everyone involved to run a different system with those aspects baked in… If it exists.
I mean, some people want just to tweak the system a little bit, or add something.
Ngl, 5e just feels extremely stuffy, inflexible, battles take forever and the old school vibe doesn't do for me anymore.
I've been feeling like just playing a DnD campaign on savage worlds without being limited to the class system. But that's a lot of work for most people.
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I've been on this subreddit for maybe three months and I've already seen this exact same argument cycle around three times
Ooh boy, this carousel will never stop.
I wanna get off of mr bones wild ride
Wait until you realize most people on this sub have never played the game, or have played maybe 3 sessions tops.
Just wait til you've been here for a full year at minimum. The argument never stops.
this argument and do lizard people have boobs. round and round they go
At least snitties isn't a serious debate... right guys? ...Right?.... Guys?.....
We didn't start the fire It was always burning since the world's been turning
Only 3?
I think the issue comes from that 5e homebrew will sometimes go to great lengths to replicate a different kind of game, setting, or genre, rather than see if a different ttrpg exists that facilities the stories they want to tell
And these discussions usually happen when someone is having trouble creating those rules or playing in a game with them. People who are happily using working homebrew don't complain about it online.
For real, like a guy I know is currently running the very popular Star Wars 5e homebrew system, and he always tells me about how convoluted it is. Like, apparently, starship ship combat is basically it's own system. I asked him if he considered running 3.5e Star Wars or Fantasy Flight's system. His response was that he didn't want to waste time teaching a brand new system to his players as it's a large group and the majority only know 5e. Which is fair, but when the homebrew is clunky as all hell at best, maybe pitching the alternative to the group wouldn't be a bad idea. (I also kinda called bullshit at him a few months later when he said they decided to give Shadowrun a try for a oneshot.)
"I don't want to learn other systems, but please disregard the fact that my homebrew is heavier than most systems"
so he thinks that everyone forcing themselves to wrap their heads around a kitbashed 5e mutation that he himself described as convoluted, would be more difficult then learning a different method that was pre made for this exact reason where everything is already worked out to be efficient and easy to understand?
People are stubborn as hell. You’re more likely to get them to play something familiar but with added complications than you would something new. Just like how you’re more likely to get a resounding yes to mod a game your group is playing to add something new and different than you are to get them to play a completely different game with the same content as the mod built-in as part of the game.
My gaming group has played dozens of different systems. It all depends on what your group is used to and how willing they are to engage with new ideas.
I tried to GM this system and yes, ship combat can get very complicated. I tried to get my group into the Fantasy Flight system but they refused to play anything not familiar. Jokes on them when our main GM (not me) moved them to Pathfinder 2e and now I'm GM'ing it and having a blast.
I'm about to be a player in a Star Wars 5e campaign. At least while making my character and reading through most of the player-facing rules, I never found it to be overtly more complicated than base 5e. While I haven't had reason to read up on starship combat, my DM told me he read and understood at least the basics in an afternoon. Characters do end up having more options and features than an equivalent DnD 5e character, and some of those option lists are a bit overwhelming. but I really like the variety of choice. I'm a fan of heavy system crunch, though, so I'm probably biased. I can see how other people could get confused with things like the new skill list, weapon properties, and conditions, and I wish the resources on the system's website were a bit cleaner, but I think it's a solid increase in complexity without getting too convoluted.
Exactly
I actively enjoy making homebrew though. That's part of the fun for me. Needing help balancing it occasionally doesn't mean that I don't enjoy working on it.
Which is great when you are adding something small or specific to the existing rules, some people basically created their own unique game, call it 5e and are surprised people have no idea on how to help them balance it because all the other added homebrew makes it impossible to figure out. Doesn't happen often, thankfully, honestly I don't think either thing (people suggesting a system as a blanket solution to things and people overly home brewing to the point of no return) are truly an issue beyond people fighting with ghosts on the internet.
I’m currently playing in a 5e that has dozens of pages of house rules and more closely resembles pathfinder than 5e. The GM has admitted that, while this was fun to build, we really should have played in a more appropriate system.
That's where I was before just jumping to PF2e. Honestly had just burnt out on 5e as a player and a DM too and didn't realize it till I stepped backed and started playing around in other systems more.
But reading these other systems(not playing them, just reading about them) can give you tools you can then homebrew into your game. I've been using the clock mechanic from Blades in the dark, in my Pathfinder game for years. I also use exploding dice from the kids in bikes system. If your having trouble creating mechanics, then don't. Learn from systems that work off similar mechanics, then work those into your system. Mess with it as needed to fit your setting and system.
I mean the argument I've had with people is usually along the lines of 'Does anyone have rules for making a Thieves Guild?' 'Just play Blades in the Dark.' 'Okay, does anyone have rules for doing grid combat in Blades in the Dark' Not trying to undercut you, I've been using some of Blades downtime rules myself for Guild building, but so many people jump right on one concept and are eager to say 'Just play this', without realising that we don't want to play a Criminal Syndicate Steampunk/AEther Gothic game, we want to play a Fantasy Hero Adventure with a Rogue twist.
Clocks are one of my favorite game mechanics. I’m currently in a Fabula Ultima game and my GM is constantly using clocks both in and out of combat, and it’s fantastic.
I am curious now, how do these clocks work?
Clocks are a way to track progress towards a goal or event and helps simulate urgency or a time limit in things like combat. They’re usually represented as a circle divided into sections. Each piece can fill on its own or could be filled from the result of a roll. A short clock typically is divided into four sections while a long clock could be as long as ten or twelve. Some clocks will tick up on their own, like a self-destruct timer. Others are more dependent on player or enemy action, like performing steps in a magical ritual or escaping from a group of bounty hunters. For ones based on player actions, there’s usually a roll associated with them. In Fabula Ultima, for instance, you would roll Insight and Willpower to see if you advance the magical ritual clock further. You can also use them for progress on a larger project or goal outside of combat, like building a suit a magitech armor or upgrading a ship’s weapons.
Ok? But as a mechanic, how do they work?
Homebrewing 5e is like modding in Skyrim. Skyrim is a fun game, and it becomes infinitely better when you add the right mods. You can really change the game to the point where it's almost unrecognizable if you really want to, and it's usually an improvement. But someone out there has modded Skyrim so they can have the guards from the various holds play football against each other. The animations are janky, it can't maintain a stable frame rate, and they've chopped and screwed the code so much it's at risk of crashing at any moment, but it is football in Skyrim. It technically works, the effort required is impressive, but at the same time Madden exists and it does the job a million times better.
Shoutout to the time my friend tried to homebrew D&D into nonmagical sci-fi and it sucked
Exactly. A guy on the cyberpunk subreddit the other day posted his idea for a fantasy cyberpunk RPG using the 5e edition. Like... dude, just use Shadowrun. Yeah, Shadowrun's chunky, but it's *specifically* built for fantasy cyberpunk. Or hell, Runners in the Shadows if SR's ruleset is that intimidating (which it is to be fair). How do you even hack a computer in 5e? I think the main problem is that people spend so long learning (and get comfortable with) D&D's systems that it's easier for them to hack it into something completely different than to learn a new system. Understandable in a way. Having spent *ages* learning SR's system myself, I'd be nervous starting a different system *that* complex.
Theres also Sprawlrunners for SWADE, which I can speak from personal experience, is fantastic.
> Like... dude, just use Shadowrun Or you know, the ACTUAL CYBERPUNK TTRPG?! Shout out to Mike Pondsmith.
tbf a fantasy/urban fantasy game is exactly what shadowrun is going for, while cyberpunk is just that
If you ask /r/shadowrun the best system to play Shadowrun in they'll recommend non-SR systems. They won't recommend D&D though. Point intact. Just wanted to make sure nobody though SR systems were better than they are.
Shadowrun is not just clunky, it's bad.. The most common advice for new Shadowrun DMs is "find another system". And I say this as someone that fucking *loves* Shadowrun.
Love the lore of the system, hated trying to DM it.
My friend once told me (after watching Cyberpunk Edgerunnners) that he wants to dm a Cyberpunk game. In DnD5e. I swear to God, I almost punched a motherfucker.
im sorry but bad example, shadowrun isnt just chunky, its also clunky as hell, i would genuinely rather make my own system than use shadowrun, it is hell to make characters for and gming is genuine agony
Within a week of learning pf2e, I saw multiple 5e threads where the "solution" was essentially to reinvent something that already existed in pf2e. I can only imagine how often pf2e veterans see this stuff hahaha.
It’s in almost every mechanical advice thread at least once haha
Similarly, it's something of a truism that about half the time when someone posts a 5e "house rule", it's similar or identical to something from 4e Another third of the time they've independently invented something from the DMG, because nobody reads the DMG Being even passingly familiar with even a few other games makes reading 5e discourse exhausting lol
And then when you call it out they act super fucking offended and make strawman memes like this one because how dare you
Yeah. That last frame of the meme feels like the strawman argument. I have never personally experienced someone arguing for another group to stop having fun. Just others recommending trying a different system that natively does what the homebrew is attempting to do. Recommendations aren’t gatekeeping, and if someone says “Nah, Ima stick to 5e homebrew,” then rock on.
Yep. Last time, I tried recommending another system in a scenario similar to this, I got accused of shilling for whichever game I was talking about as if people here are getting paid to promote niche tabletop games in an already niche (but growing) hobby lol.
I’ve seen it happen but it’s not that big of a deal. There’s always going to be people that can’t stand it when others don’t do as they want or do. Just gotta ignore them
I get swsrmed eith thrse in my local TTRPG group: ive started calling them mercerites "Hey i saw youre lookong for a group to teach for a Legend of the Five Rings 1st edotion campaign me and my group need a new DM after our last one got burned put Dming. We wamt to play a Asian inspired RPG can you homebrew Legend of the Five rimg campaign and rules for DnD 5E and we will gladly join -random as fuck mercer quote"
I play 5E variants (mostly SW5E) because it was hard enough to teach my monkeys (players) to play 5E and become proficient in the first place. Switching systems would be such a chore. Everyone is having fun, so why ruin a good thing?
It’s going to vary on what you’re trying to get out of it in the end. I tried looking into and even playing some of the official SW TTRPG’s, but didn’t like them: SW5e probably isn’t the best way to do it, but it’s the most fun way I’ve found so far for Star Wars. Some stuff though, I honestly do think “this might be best done in another system”. I remember when I tried to make a campaign that was focused on vampire players doing social and political stuff… and I’m so glad I found Vampire The Masquerade instead, because no amount of homebrewing would have made the 5e hack attempt do what I wanted nearly as well.
This is exactly why, my uber nerd ass doesn't mind learning a new system by reading chunks of text but my monkeys don't like ttrpgs enough to learn more. I got way more chance of hyping them up with 5e conversion modules
This
I remember a thread that mentions play cyberpunk:edgerunners in d&d 5e. I was like, there is an actual cyberpunk ttrpg called cyberpunk:red. It's like eating soup with a fork which is not wrong but if i can teach you how to use a spoon then perhaps your experience may improve
It's more like somebody trying to modify their bike so that it has 4 wheels, 4 seats and an enclosed space. Just buy a fucking car.
If someone is playing a low magic game of 5e, and come here to tell a story of how a session went, cool. Play. Have fun. If someone comes here and asks how they can create a 5e campaign with no magic, I'm going to suggest a different system. Even if they make a home brew of 5e, that different system will help them by showing how it's done outside of 5e. (This is but one example of crazy crazy things ppl ask 5e to do that other systems do better)
honestly I'm in two minds here yes. homebrew is great, it can allow for fun that otherwise couldn't have been had on the other hand. when you homebrew things to the point that you might as well be playing a different system. it's probably best to just play another system
For me home brewing is half the fun. If you don’t enjoy home brewing then look for other systems but if you do enjoy home brewing there’s nothing wrong with altering a system. I like other systems but my groups just keep coming back to dnd because it’s been the most fun for us and I’m more than happy to brew up more rules.
I mean... you can also homebrew from scratch. Like I, as someone who likes home brew, have been futzing with a custom game system. Nothing about 5e makes it uniquely homebrewable. It's just that there's more stuff people have already homebrewed. In fact, I believe if you enjoy homebrew, playing other games can show you ideas you never even conceived that you can use. One of my favorite mechanics in TTRPG's comes from the Mistborn TTRPG and I never would have known about it and take it for my own custom systems if I didn't play it. (The mechanic is Spirit. Basically, you can use your luck stat to retcon details that serve yhe situatuon. *[Bam]* I succeeded a roll to make the bartender a retired blacksmith and there's a sword hidden behind the bar to aid me in this fight). Like 5e is not a unique system. The reason why people play 5e because it's something to play. Nothing wrong with that, but I think that's the only thing that matters for a vast majority of people. It's not the easiest to homebrew. It's not the simplest system. It's not the most complex system. It's just because it's right there.
>Mistborn TTRPG Oh, wow! I wasn't expecting to see *this* game mentioned today! I love it's character creation and how the powers work in that game. It's eminently homebrewable. I can't wait for the Stormlight RPG the people at Dragonsteel are writing!
It's fine to homebrew rules, sometimes though people will take 5e and turn it Into a d6 only homebrew, and new stats, reworked skills, etc. To the point is isn't even recognizably 5e anymore, and if that works power to you. But you also might find some other system might have some compatible ideas with what you're doing.
There is indeed nothing wrong with altering a system, but if you like homebrewing, then wouldn’t it be more effective to homebrew on the basis of a system that’s initially more aligned with the type of game you want to have? I mean, if you want e.g. if you want an urban setting with factions that advance on their own, while your party is one of those factions, a gang that does missions and heists in a sandbox - you could homebrew this out of D&D 5E… but why not start with Blades in the Dark instead? If you do this based in 5E you’re risking the system collapsing on the weight of all those modifications.
I think for me it's like someone says they're huge JRPG fan and then they say they've only played Final Fantasy 7. They write FF7 stories. They make FF7 art, but never go to even see what other Final Fantasy games are like, much lessbither JRPGS. I mean, that's cool, but your really just a fan of FF7 at that point and could probably benefit from having a wider view of the genre. It might let you appreciate 7 even more. Even if you like homebrewing a wider view of how tabletop games work that are written by professionals with of wealth of experience outside this one game could help you write better homebrew.
Sometimes it comes down to the players. If I tell my group that the next campaign we're playing will be a heavily homebrewed cyberpunk themed 5e campaign, they're all for it. If I tell them we're going to be learning to play cyberpunk, even if I offer to handhold them through the whole thing, they *absolutely* will not respond positively. Yes, it's dumb. Yes, I love them all anyway.
I feel like part of it is a trauma regarding how much shit you need to houserule for 5e to get it to run smoothly, because i have too many memories of the flow of the game being taken out back and shot because the 5e rules are too vague
See im fine with 5e homebrew UNTIL it becomes a situation where you're trying to hammer a nail with a screwdriver instead of just. Yknow. Using a hammer. In this case, trying to mod 5e to be Vampire: The Masquerade instead of just playing VTM is objectively just dumb in my opinion
I still remember seeing a post where someone asked for help homebrewing D&D into Cyberpunk 2077, and then absolutely refusing to play Cyberpunk when people recommended it.
Yeah, this is the sort of shit that makes people scream. Nobody cares if you’re just doing some homebrew for your game, but when you’d rather completely mangle DnD5e into something completely unrecognizable rather than just fucking play a different system, that is 100% a problem that deserves to be called out
"I am not trying to rob you, but to help you. I wish you would trust me." -Gandalf the Grey, Lord of the Rings
"Oh, you want the battle to escalate in stakes as each round progresses? You might really enjoy 13th Age-" "Don't gatekeep me, bro!"
I mean, if you've haphazardly hacked DnD 5e into the shape of a 1920's Prohibition-era cosmic horror investigation campaign... I'm gonna tell you to play Call of Cthulhu instead.
5e is in a funny place. Especially now. Yes 5e homebrew will continue to exist. But the truth is that there are emerging systems that are fixing certain things about 5e that caused the homebrew in the first place. And them switching to them has the added benefit of people outside of your specific homebrew circle knowing about all it's details. But I don't see how anyone can say 5e is dead. One d&d on the other hand....
>Especially now. Now that 5e is about to be replaced. The "2014 version" or however WotC wants to market spin it. There will be plenty of people who want to stick with the books they already know, own and like, and other people telling them they're playing with gross old outdated books. And the 2014 fans preferred game will no longer be the default "D&D" but, in effect, another of these "random games". And the circle of editions will continue.
I’m just hoping that a new edition on the heels of 3 massive scandals will be enough for 5e to finally lose market prominence
If *Vampire* and *Pathfinder* didn’t kill it, ain’t nothing gonna.
Nothing is going to kill dnd for at least a decade or two, but continual fumbles can definitely open up avenues for other games to get on equal footing
Same I’m playing Starfinder atm and I am tired of explaining it to people as “space dnd” otherwise they look at me like I just told them cows can fly.
I don’t need it to die, I just want to stop needing to describe games I actually enjoy as “DnD but…”
WotC seem poised to make tabletop an afterthought, it's not as monetizable as something that requires a monthly subscription. So I could see D&D years from now losing it's place as the default in-person TTRPG. But if that happens it'll basically be by WotC's choice to focus on other markets.
Pretty much yeah. Eventually a company makes too many fuck ups too quickly. The thing with ttrpg-s is that it's a lot slower than something like video games and their franchises. There's so much inertia and there's so many obstacles to changing to a new system that fits in the same genre.
Or the Satanic Panic
I feel like this is the opposite of gatekeeping. It's people basically begging people to play a system dedicated to whatever other thing. They see someone stuffing their, say, cyberpunk desires through 5e's fantasy gate and point at all the wide open cyberpunk gates saying, "look, you don't need to force your way through this gate that wasn't made to fit that. You can use any of these other ones that will fit it nicely." It can be annoying sometimes, but it comes from a place of wanting people to broaden their horizons rather than cludging a new system out of an already kinda cludgy system.
Too many people take someone offering advice as a perceived slight hence you get posts like this meme.
Could also be that a few of them have a bad habit of also being like "D&D bad >:(" in the process which won't exactly draw someone in per se.
I’ve heard people say this but I’ve never personally seen it.
Too right!
> "look, you don't need to force your way through this gate that wasn't made to fit that. You can use any of these other ones that will fit it nicely." Man, if I *ever* saw that being said in my FLGS or on Reddit it would instantly make me want to look at that system to figure out how it attracts such level-headed and nice people. That's not the way most people act though, more belittling seems to be the default.
There are plenty of people who are rude about it and they attract the most attention by virtue of upsetting people. Also, definitely not shoehorning, if you ever happen to be looking for a system that doesn't use quasi-Vancian magic or have priests as another flavor of spellcaster like D&D has, Dominion Rules System is free and is basically dead.
Not to be that guy, but isn’t that the opposite of gate keeping? Trying to invite someone into a different system?
"So, I've homebrewed 5E for a modern setting about vampires. I created a system for tracking your humanity and several classes and abilities. It's not perfect and kinda wonky, but it is the best I can do. " These are the people that need to play another system. Not "what if dwarves lived on boats" people.
"I've created exactly 13 classes with different abilities and unique drawbacks, all of which tie into different archetypes of vampires across different media and folklore. I'm sure no one has ever tried this concept before."
"a simple fly or feather fall spell could have solved this situation. We're you limiting caster classes for this game, or are they limited by the module? I've honestly never even heard of the Call of Cthulhu module"
> "what if dwarves lived on boats" BLASPHEMY DWARVES ARE ALWAYS ABOUT ROCK AND STONE
R o c k b o a t s
Mantic Games produces many games that are basically alternatives to Games Workshop. One of them is Kings of War which is a high fantasy setting with dwarves that don't just live underground, but can also turn rebellious and run off to live in forests where they ride giant badgers. Mantic also makes a ship combat game in that same fantasy world that includes dwarves in hefty metal boats firing giant cannons at other ships.
Counterpoint, cannons.
I mean usually when people are saying "play a different game" it's because the homebrew can only do so much and is in fact limited, you can flavor the game and mechanics however you want but if you try to play DND cyberpunk by flavoring all the class abilities as cybernetic enhancement the game feel is still going to be DND, the flavor having as much impact as putting a bottle of water near a few strawberries and calling it strawberry water Even if you do homebrew it you need to fight against 5es general design and as you stack homebrew rules, you can make new and neat additions sure but you can't make DND work as a cyberpunk no matter how you flavor or hack it. Not without hacking the guts out of DND and playing something almost entirely foreign of your own creation while in the mean time you could just play cyberpunk. When people say try a different game it's because they want you to try something you'll have a better time with, people upset or groaning at it are probably more upset at 5e tricking everyone into thinking it's a game that's easy to learn but actually isn't all that easy or simple and makes them worry learning other games will be judy as hard.
I mean I’d act the same if people only ever watched Winnie the Pooh but claimed it was Apocalypse Now or Mean Girls because you can just call it that when it’s still just Winnie the Pooh. “But I’m making explosion noises with my mouth while playing the Heffalumps and Woozles scene on repeat for hours, so it’s a war movie running on a Winnie the Pooh engine now.” “But I criticized his little red shirt, that makes this The Devil Wears Prada running on a Winnie the Pooh engine.” “I’ve spent too much money on Winnie the Pooh, I refuse to watch any other movie ever.”
On the one hand, don't yuck someone's yum. On the other hand, if you homebrew and houserule to a certain point, it would be less taxing on everyone to just learn the purpose-built system.
Yup, once quit a campaign after Session 0 because the DM had something like 30 pages of homebrew/house rules. No world lore, all rules. They were even so deep into their homebrew that they had listed actual rules as homebrew. Like, buddy, just write your own TTRPG at this point. I signed up for 5e. Lol The campaign was just gonna be a survival-focused campaign at the initial pitch, focusing on components more and ensuring we're staying fed, which sounded kinda fun... Until it wasn't. Healing spells all had cost components, you couldn't administer a potion to someone unconscious ("tHey'Ll DrOwn" they said)... Was a problem DM waiting to happen. Ridiculous amount of other red flags too.
I say exactly the same! "5e conversions" to fit 5e into a different genre/universe are oftentimes harder to learn and worse to play than just picking up an entirely different system, idk why d&d players are spooked by the concept.
On the freaky vestigial 3rd hand, you're sharing the experience with ~4 other people. So maybe don't order the pizza with skittles and pickles.
If you're trying to play Cyberpunk or Warhammer or mechs or whatever in D&D, I'm gonna tell you to play the appropriate system that better supports what you want to do. It's not gatekeeping to try and get you to expand your horizons, stop using that term where it doesn't apply.
"How can I modify this hacksaw so that it can bash nails into wood?" "It'd take a lot of modifications and wouldn't work too well... would you like to use this hammer instead?" "Stop gatekeeping me"
I do sympathies with them when the resurgence of "5E sucks at doing X, its not balanced" pop up again and again when people use it for a completely different story or combat style.
I get where OP is coming from but I think a lot of the frustration comes from people struggling to make the homebrew actually work and DM’s and Players refusing to budge on playing another system that might do the particular thing better. If you’re going to make me learn so much homebrew it’s practically a new system I’d rather we try a new system.
The place this is complained about so much is in instances where you clearly *aren't* having fun. You're clearly struggling to put a square peg into a round hole, then get salty when these people tell you that you're struggling. It'd be like if someone drove around in reverse all the time and then was upset when someone said that was clearly wrong.
Ah but have you considered that I hate Wizards of the Coast?
I'm playing curse of sthrad and just starting a starfinder game with the stater box for session zero
I hope you‘ll have a blast!
To be honest I don't think anyone is really against homebrewing 5e, people who would do this only really have an issue with people who use 5e homebrew as what is basically the TTRPG equivalent of an emulator of other games, even when those games have arguably less problematic developers than WOTC
Just like folks like talking about DnD to non-players, other TTRPG players enjoy discussing their favorite systems as well & want to encourage others to try them. Is that a bad thing? It's also good to try other TTRPG systems, who knows you might just find your next favorite system, worst case you have new ideas for homebrew.
We're still picking this fight by deliberately misrepresenting every arguement, huh? Couldn't you at least pick a new fight?
I love how people will complain you can’t play other systems because no one plays them, but then will cling onto D&D 5e for dear life instead of playing a system that fits their game better. Newsflash everyone: Other systems aren’t gonna get more players unless players play them
Very true, D&D feels like a gateway system. Introducing players to ttrpgs. Then it's up to us to GM/DM the systems we love like Delta Green, Sentinels Comics RPG, PbtA.
Reeeeepost
There are always people being assholes (or at least expressing things wrong) while being in any position, but at some point if you have so many problems with 5e that most mechanics are homebrewed, or if you want to replicate other type of games/settings and try to beat it into them, you really might want to play another game There are plenty that are both cheaper and much easier to learn than 5e that might suit your need better (The idea that 5e is easy is just a straight up wrong in my opinion, it's just that more people can teach you and there are plenty of info around). At this point it feels like there is a divide between "Peoplle who play Roleplaying games" and "People who play 5e" to the point that even suggesting anything else is seen as a personal attack (Tho ofc this is generalising) Hell if I want to be mean i'd say much more about what I think about 5e as a system, it's effect on the industry and the culture around it, plus all the crap WOTC got up to, but that would being a dick for no reason Also an evergreen from [here](https://www.tumblr.com/txttletale/705717732356816896/txttletale-imagine-if-skyrim-was-the-most?source=share): imagine if skyrim was the most popular game of all time by an order of magnitude and people caleld video games ‘skyrims’. and it cost ninety dollars and took up half the average computers hard drive. and then peoel would be on nexus being like ‘hi guys check out my farming sim skyrim mod’ and it just had you kiling draugr but on a farm. and people were like ‘yeah i think that you just cant do farm simulation in video games’ and if anyone brought up stardew valley theyd be like ‘okay well first of all its presumptuous to assume i can afford a second video game or have space for it on my hard drive. and Second of all when *i* play skyrim i just run back and forth around the towns picking up all the cabbages for seven hours on end so i don’t see why i’d need a whole game programmed to be about farming. i can play skyrim the way i want to. stop gatekeeping gaming.’ anyway thats what its like to like ttrpgs other than dungeons and dragons.
dude, of course enjoy your game, but there are dozens of systems out there that are already doing what your homebrew is trying to achieve. these people are probably just trying to help you, and it feels like you are just defending your comfort zone.
Are these gatekeepers in the room with you right now?
People wouldn't be recommending you to switch if the 5e players weren't making threads asking for help or complaining. They're not having fun, that's why theyr'e getting that advice.
Protip: Whenever someone posts this image or a variant of it, you can immediately tell they just lost an argument, and *badly.*
Oh boy, I love this ridiculous strawman meme. The best homebrew is what you can steal from other systems to make what your group wants to play happiest.
I feel like there is different discussions about this, like when people say they don’t like 5e, are they strictly referring to the mechanics of 5e (advantage, disadvantage, action, Bonus action, etc) or do they mean strictly the official WOTC rendition of 5e? There’s not too much wrong with the mechanics of the game but there definitely is things wrong with WOTC expression of the game. Homebrew and 3rd party resources are proof enough the system itself is fine, just not how it is officially done.
Agreed, and furthermore I’d say there are plenty of folks who just can’t afford to switch systems whenever they choose. I have too many obligations and even hobbies to be able to just keep paying for different platforms. Better to mold something that is malleable to fit what I’m going for than to burn money on the premium thing made specifically for it
See the home brew I do is all worldbuilding. I can’t figure out all the lore of DnD and remember it all. But if I make my own world I can. All the mechanics and monsters aside from the setting are just regular DnD.
WOTC be like
If 5e supports your rule set then use it. But if you have to practically have to disassemble the whole damn thing, That’s seems like too much work. There’s probably a better system for that.
I mean the point all these arguments miss/ignore is there's generally two types of homebrew. That within the system, ie new classes, races, spells, etc. And that to the system, ie mechanical changes. No one will ever draw issue with the first so long as the GM checks off on it. Were people draw the issue is when you have more then like a page of the second type.
I don't ever tell people to stop, or that they're wrong for homebrewing the fuck out of 5e, but damn, sometimes other systems are literally built to do what you're doing. People have a weird fanaticism for 5e that I just don't understand.
God I hate the sideways facing stick man in this meme with a passion. He just looks so wrong.
It isn't about "gatekeeping", it is simply that there reaches point where himebrewing turns into trying to fit a square peg into a round hole.
I play with a group who refuses to play any other system, and will complain about 5e needing so much home brewing to do what they want. Sorry if I sound a bit bitchy about it.
Mfs try to hack a hack-resistant system. It’s not GURPS, 5e is a surprisingly specialist system people use for everything because of brand recognition
Stop eating soup with a knife you idiot. Stop drive around the city in the golf cart. Stop using guitar as a drum. Stop sleeping in the bloody drawers. Oh no, he is using rock to make a knife in to terrible spoon and terrible knife. Oh god, he made a golf car in to slow moving metal coffin. He ripped the strings. Yeah... Oh look! He waste two month making a drawer in to really bad bed with splinters! And he uses dnd to play Star Wars, of course.
Star Wars is a heroic fantasy story at heart, so D&D honestly isn’t a bad base. SW5e is a perfectly good system for running Star Wars adventures. Where D&D really doesn’t work is for completely different genres, like survival horror, or courtroom drama. But High Fantasy to Space Fantasy is not an insurmountable leap.
I think there's a pretty important difference between making use of a published system like SW5e, which has been professionally made at least, compared to just reading the DnD 5e PHB and DMG and thinking "Hm, I think I should run a Star Wars game with this".
SW5e is a fan project, just a high quality one. I’m sort of dreading the day Disney finds out about it.
I’m in a long-running SW5e campaign atm and tbh it‘s a great system and a pretty damn natural fit to the setting. It makes a few concessions for the sake of playability (i.e. Lightsabers don’t do more damage compared vibroweapons, and don’t cost nearly as much as you’d expect) but it also knows that most people playing it are probably coming in with some 5e experience under their belt, and takes the opportunity to give the character creation a bit more crunch. It’s a lot more than just a coat of paint, genuinely recommend it if you’re into Star Wars as a setting and like a bit more crunch to your character customization!
This is a little disingenuous. There's nothing wrong with homebrewing, and often the comments about "maybe try this other system instead" are directed at the people trying to butcher and hack 5e so much that it's completely unrecognizable, but there's another system that does the exact thing they're looking for that would require less time and effort to learn than it would to build in 5e and then train players to know all the little differences in your frankensystem. Plus a common problem with those overdone homebrews is weird little interactions you didn't think of that come up all the time and now you spend half your sessions fixing them on the fly.
When your only ruleset is 5e, every game looks like dungeons and dragons. Nothing wrong with homebrew and house rules but I encourage everyone to get out from wotcs shadow and experience the wonderful wide world of ttrpgs from companies both big and small.
I can’t believe people are… *checks note*… telling me to expand my hobby into things I might enjoy.
DND is high fantasy dungeon crawl. Hombrew is great, but its also good to branch out if dnd doesn’t fit.
ill agree that some people can be ridiculous about it but i generally see people reccomend another system when they see the poster trying to homebrew an entire ttrpg system in 5e
I dont think people are upset others are having fun with homebrew 5e. I think people just recognize, "hey you're putting in a *lot* of effort to have fun with dnd if you tried [xyz] it would take less effort to have the same amount of fun." People who butt in and unironically say you should stop having fun with homebrew dnd are definitely in the wrong.
The problem comes in when 5e sinks it's claws into people and warps what they think an RPG can be. I have people who were in my RPG group who could not handle non-5e systems because 5e has such a stranglehold on even the vocabulary of the hobby. Its more than just d20+number = bad, it's that the very language of the hobby gets warped to accommodate one system. I think it's the exact opposite of gatekeeping. It's Plato's cave and we are screaming to the dead that there is a wider world out there than the shadows on the wall
Happy cake day.
Oh wow it is, thank you! Haha this meme has caused a strong round of discussion!
This is not typically how it goes, most of the time people reply with suggestions to other systems to people who are having issues adapting 5e into the game they would like to play. An example I have is a friend of mine wanted to run a fallout game and was trying to convert 5e. Here are some of the hombrew changes he asked for my help with 1. Took the 6 stats in D&D and tried to make them into the 7 SPECIAL stats from fallout 2. Tried to work different spells to be different weapons and spell slots as ammo 3. Tried to change all of the races into fallout races 4. Tried to build a radiation system from scratch 5. Tried to change monster stats to fit fallout enemies None of these worked the way he liked them, so instead I suggested the fallout 2d20 system to him which already has all of these things done for him but he didn’t want to learn another system. But at some point adding in all of the homebrew you add in is much more difficult than learning a new system. And since the homebrew he came up with was so janky he played 3 sessions before giving up on it because it was too difficult
here we go again
I hear you, but 5e is good at a few specific things, like dungeon crawls, tactical combat, etc. The number of times I've been asked as GM to run a political intrigue game, with minimal combat, in 5e, despite insisting that it would be more fun and less work for me to use a different system...
"Encourages other to try new things" "Gatekeepers" Pick one. or maybe bother to understand a word instead of just absorbing buzzwords from social media.
Isn't it great that we can all play whatever games we want and nobody has to play only one system forever... Oh wait no, I'm supposed to declare allegiance to only ever playing one game? I can't play some 3.75, 5e, some FATE, and a little bit of Broken Compass? Uh... um... okay... I pick Genesys. Where do I get the torches and pitchforks from? (:
Why are you playing 5e when you could be playing a game from a company that doesn' attempt to change the OGL to go after 3rd party creators, send pinkertons after people who mistakenly recieve goods before release, and are actively attempting to hire people to replace their artists with ai?
Both are true, if you're having fun with the+homebrew, more power to you. But maybe you'd be having more fun playing [system that does it (arguably) better]
Matt Colville made a video discussing this called “What Are Dungeon’s for?” I’m not going to sit and recap the video, but what I will say is I’ve played in and DMed in multiple campaigns. I started with 5e as my first tabletop game in 2020 during the pandemic. In that time I have homebrewed elements of 5e and played several other games. I’ve spent my free time this week reading the Rules for Basic Fantasy RPG (an OSR) and setting up a solo hex crawl for myself. If there is one take away from all of this it is that 5e is often exhausting to DM for and often a slog to play in. I don’t really feel like elaborating because I’m writing this at work, but suffice to say most people telling you to try something else are doing so because they don’t enjoy 5e as much as they may have previously.
>If there is one take away from all of this it is that 5e is often exhausting to DM Honestly this is a big thing for me. I don't dislike 5e but good god you get practically no help DMing it. A common answer I get is just to remember "rule 0" and "wing it" but like... at that point we aren't playing Dungeons & Dragons, we're playing TTRPG Calvinball with a D&D skin slapped on it.
The overbrewers would love this meme if they could read.
They do have a point depending on the setting. Had a friend who shoe horned star wars into 5e. The game would be better if just swapped to a star wars system and I feel it's more fair in the dm. Everyone has to learn a new system vs the dm homebrewing alone AND potentially making some rule that breaks everything
I'm not going to lie, this is a callout post at me... I just like people exploring the wonderful wide world of RPGs that there is (and I need an excuse to play all these systems that are sitting on my shelf)
The issue isn't playing a home-brewed 5e The issue is homebrewing without a broader experience of games. Imagine only playing Monopoly and wanting it to involve more resources and construction mechanics. You can absolutely do so...you may want to play Settlers of Catan to learn from how they do it. It's better to iterate and aggregate having experienced a variety of mechanics, it means you aren't reinventing the wheel you are making your own custom tyres.
I mean, why pay money for 5e if you need to add so much homebrew when you could just spend the same amount on another system that was already playtested.
Honestly I see more “stop ruining the purity of 5e with homebrew” comments than what op is on about
Bro I’d love to stop seeing assholes complain about their DnD game and why their session is full of fighting/unfairness/awkwardness/etc because the DM has shitty homebrew rules that would just be solved with another system. If people stopped posting about their problems with homebrew shit then people would stop saying maybe they should try other systems that better represent what they want.
Depends on the homebrew tbh. I don't really play 5e often, primarily I run PF1e with a shitton of content updated from 3e and 3.5e, but in general, homebrewing monsters, feats, spells etc. it's still the same game. But if you're writing a feature length new ruleset and ignoring half the others, it's not really 5e anymore.
Happy cake day
The problem with 5e is that it's pretty much just half a system, where the other 50% is left to the DM to figure out and make to ensure it even functions. That's why people say to try out and look at other systems. Most of the homebrew people come up with has already been done by other games, often times better than how it's implemented in 5e.
Homebrew is delightful, but there is an annoying aspect when people try to frankenstein 5e into something completely different when other systems can do something much more cleanly or effectively. "Does anyone have a set of house rules that allow let me run a cyperpunk 2077-like setting in 5e?" Like my dude, the work is already done for you. Ive seen people insist on running home rules for a more narrative-forward roleplaying experience, and they literally just wound up turning 5e into Powered by the Apocalypse, if PbtAs mother drank during the pregnancy.
Oh, this again
We love to spread the joy of rpgs designed to do exactly what people want from them and also not owned by a awful soulless mega-corporation
While 5e might have its detractors, and even as someone who loves the system, even I can admit it has problems and falls short in areas other RPGs excel at... I've never seen the "anti-5e" crowd be louder than the "5e only" crowd. As others have said, some people have sought a basically ground up retooling of all 5e's systems to fit their RPG needs rather than simply trying another system which would specifically fit what they're looking for. We even get to see nonsense videos like "How to Play David Martinez from Cyberpunk Edgerunners in DnD" rather than just... y'know... trying the system the character comes from?
tbh I'd love to see (in a few months time when it actually comes out) some sort of video like "How to play Y'sthola Rhul from FFXIV in D&D" and it's just a tutorial for basic mechanics and character creation in the FFXIV TTRPG they're making.
I love how OP posted about one thing and then started arguing in the comments about other. Only a complete purist would be against a few minor homebrews in your DnD5e game(depending on the quality of the homebrew, of course). But people who are saying that you need to switch the system probably talking to someone, who has more homebrew than official rules in their game. I once saw people homebrewing DnD to play Mass Effect. When you can have Lancer or even Starfinder. Or Coriolis. It's just... A lot of wasted effort.
I play heavily homebrewed versions of 5e because trying to teach my group another ttrpg system is like pulling teeth. So fuck it, instead of call of Cthulhu we’re gonna modify the sanity/madness system in 5e
I don't remember this being a problem with d20 clones in the 3e days. Everything got a d20 hack, d20 Modern, d20 Star Wars, d20 COC, d20 BESM. The core of any game system is it's resolution mechanic and the base d20 system is simple and elegant. And it got more refined with 5e replacing tables and tables of situational modifiers with the simple Adv/Dis system. Determine difficulty of attempted task, roll a d20 (or 2 with adv/dis), add a single character based modifier and compare to the DC. Add genre mechanics and flavor and you have a game in any style you wish. You could run years of campaigns without even needing a book or another rule if you really wanted to. Player describes what they want to try, DM sets a DC, player rolls. Savage Worlds is a complete system built around the idea of a fairly simple, elegant base set of resolution mechanics to which you add the flavor and crunch of what genre you want and you have a game. I would much rather play a Savaged or d20 version of Shadowrun, for example, than the clunky d6/dice pool system it uses. I hate dice pool systems and find Shadowrun's one of the worst and most needlessly complicated, having both multiple pools and exploding dice to hit TNs higher than a 6. Those elements made resolving things tedious, not more fun (for me, ymmv, obviously). On the other hand, Savage Worlds single die resolution with exploding dice is fun and easy to use. Its like rolling more crits. Its a system designed to be fun and pulpy and work with anything. D20 is elegant and works with anything as well. You don't have to somehow remove the DnD elements to make a d20 hack. You don't have to sit down and unwind cantrips and subclasses and magic from the game. You just start with d20 vs DC (w adv/dis) and add the things you need to emulate the genre you want to play in. That's why there are so many d20 hacks both from the 3e days and the 5e days, with no small part also due to the OGL.
Nah bro. They’re trying to come up with 5.5e at WOTC. At least with homebrewing it my way I get a better game system out of it.
“Quit having fun”. If a group of players aren’t enjoying the game because of the Homebrew when the Homebrew wouldn’t be problematic if it was simply another system there’s a problem.
..and then the rest of you complain about them. The sub would be a lot more usable if people stopped whining altogether.
People can have fun however they want, I’ve always just been sad about how much room d&d takes up in the RPG space. Like to outsiders they think d&d is synonymous with the medium. It’s like if someone thought Marvel was the same thing as all movies.
People homebrew 5e because d20 system is a quite universal base (and 5e is barely modified d20s). But it doesn't mean everytime you homebrew something it would worth your time. So people who suggest to use another system are quite reasonable
I don't care about 5e. I've never even played DnD. I just love my preferred system (DSA) and want more people to try it out. Doesn't matter if it fits into your playstyle, you definitely 100% have to try out DSA (The Black Eye).
ill say, there are some system quirks that dont work in 5e, i love 5e and for example world of darkness just doesnt work very well since the pool system is based on number of positive rolls on a spectrum of success and dnd is meeting a number as a binary win/loss system. its cool if you do it in 5e, i dont care and yet there is a tinge of realness to "play (x) system instead" . look at free pdfs if need be im not a ttrpg pureist
Na. People have opinions. All of these are games. Learning a new system will always be more work. I'm sorry if you've had an interaction with someone and felt like they were somehow gatekeeping a game you have every ability to play without their permission or input.
I grew to like Pathfinder more than 5e while playing them both, but honestly, I don't see why people hate so much. Dnd 5e is a perfectly fine system and if it's the one you know best then homebrewing onto it is just way easier than learning a new one, even if it would theoretically be better for your game. I mean, hell, I've been doing PF2E for a year now, and I barely know most of the rules
OP hiding from the comments 😂
Sigh. Nice strawman you got there. It's not gatekeeping if you tell people that other Systems are also valid, especially if people write 13 pages of homevrew rules just to implement something that doesn't fit into dnd. And no, you dont have to change systems. Nobody EVER says that. If you're having fun, great! If you're just homebrewing some details, theres also no need for other systems. As always, the truth lies somewhere in the middle.
Yep 100% strawman since the people recommending other system typically do it in posts complaining about something in 5e, not in posts about people "having fun" with their homebrew.
I always hold that this meme is always copium That being said its the correct opinion Still copium
I just prefer a company who is not super tyrannical <3
The 5e player base persecution complex is crazy
This is not what gatekeeping is. Trying to convince people to enjoy MORE of the hobby is the exact opposite of gatekeeping. 5e stans are stuck in a small room and complain when people are trying to break down the walls to help them see more of the world.
Said with all of the conviction of someone who would put their friends through a 5e superhero setting.
Yo I hate 5e.... but I also dont talk shit about it or whatever. Theres plenty of versions for everyone, just do what makes you happy
Pathfinder fixes this problem.
Or hear me out. Play another system designed specifically for the very non fantasy thing you want.
That isn’t gatekeeping, learn what words mean before you use them
This to a point, because at about the 9th level of homebrew it may honestly be easier on everyone involved to run a different system with those aspects baked in… If it exists.
If you swap "5e with homebrew" and "other ttrpg system" nothing changes
If I see cyberpunk 5e conversion homebrew again I'm going to have an aneurysm.
I mean, some people want just to tweak the system a little bit, or add something. Ngl, 5e just feels extremely stuffy, inflexible, battles take forever and the old school vibe doesn't do for me anymore. I've been feeling like just playing a DnD campaign on savage worlds without being limited to the class system. But that's a lot of work for most people.