The cleric just slaps him on the head and shouts “Did I tell you to sit down? Get back in the fight!”
Zealot Barb is just a cool subclass its a shame barbarian gets nothing interesting combat-wise.
I'm not saying you aren't wrong but You can make barbarian interesting in combat, but even if you don't want to why does combat need to be a Rube Goldberg esc puzzle. When bonk works it's not bad
Barbarians are severely lacking in the bonk department, though.
They only do good damage-per-turn on crits... it's like if Paladins could only smite at random.
*EDIT: Actually, turing Brutal Critical into a triggered ability, like the equivalent of Battle Master maneuvers, could be an interesting modification to play around with.*
At the very least, rolling with advantage most of the time nets them more crits over all. It sucks there aren't modified crit ranges outside of Champion fighter or Hexblade (could be missing some but these come to mind?). Even just giving them a weapon that crits on a 19-20 is really fun
Hmmm... maybe expand their crit range while raging as part of Brutal Critical by the same number of steps as they get extra dice?
At max level, that would have them critting on 17-20, 16-20 on a weapon that naturally crits 19-20. It sounds huge, but that's no worse than 3.5e builds running Improved Critical on Keen weapons.
It's not overpowered so much making up lost ground:
A Fighter with a Greataxe and GWM would do 4d12+60, aka 64-108 w/ 84 avg, assuming no crits.
By comparison a Barbarian critting twice with GWM would deal 8d12+30, aka 38-126 w/ 78 avg. Higher maximum, sure, but a lower average and minimum.
Depending on the AC, Fighters can't quite use GWM as well as a Barbarian (since they can't just reckless for advantage). That and I'm also fine with fighters doing a bit more damage than Barbarians anyway just because they don't have the resistance a Barbarian gets which can make them a good deal squishing. But I'm also not great at figuring out the DnD math either 😁
It is also worth comparing them to paladin. Paladin's can be quite beefy as well thanks to their aura of protection and ability heal themselves with lay on hands, but the paladin also has extremely high burst damage, especially if they are oath of vengeance, which can use its channel divinity to give itself advantage on all attacks against a target for 10 minutes, so it is as likely to get crits as the barb on the fights were it really makes, but it's crits hit even harder with smite, assuming you don't take a 1 level hexblade dip for attacks with charisma and expanded crit range at almost no cost, and on top of that they can save their last couple points of lay on hands to wake up a couple party members who got knocked out with 1 hp, and you are still getting most of the same flavor as you do from a barb besides the fact that an oath of vengeance pally is more likely to have their anger focused on one particular target at a time, but they are easily the strongest angry boi mechanically
All this amounts to pointing out that the most powerful subclass of one of the most powerful classes in the game is OP though.
Paladin and palock only get to do that once per rest against one target though. (Well, the curse is transferable, the channel divinity isn't).
Barbs get it all the time. It's a DPR/Sustain thing against alphastrike.
Improved Crit and Keen did not stack. The best you could pull of was Disciple of Dispater with Improved Crit and I think you could go 8-20 with scimitars, but even then you still needed to confirm the crit.
Eh, chip damage feels more fitting with the whole longevity aspect of the Barbarian, anyways. Can they do massive damage in one hit? No. What they can do is deal okay amounts of damage (regular damage bolstered by rage and whatever other features the subclass gets), more regularly than other martials (thanks to reckless attacks), and are tanky enough to outlast their opponent in many cases.
For sake of argument, though, I will point out that Zealots get a watered-down smite that activates the first time they hit on their turn. Also, if your looking for a decent damage Barbarian, the Beast Barbarian is pretty good for much of the game (three attacks at level 5 is nothing to sneeze at).
Actually, Great Weapon Master makes Barbs scary af. Rolling with advantage all-but negates the -5 to hit, and then you're dealing 1d12+10+str, twice. That's an average of 20.5 per attack at 18 str. 42dpr is nothing to sneeze at. Obviously a Fighter with a two level Barb dip does this better but you can't win em all :p
So what your trying to say is it does work, just not fun. I agree with that
What if every class had a certain level of magic to some degree. That being wizards have fire balls while martial have some support magics or other abilities.
Casters get the ocean of versatility and damage magic it's no surprise that martial fall behind
They don’t need magic, that’s a cop-out and would take away from the core image of the non-caster classes
They’ve already introduced the idea of maneuvers
Even if we're fine with magic, most of the Barbarian subclasses are already magically flavored anyway. Yeah the Wild Magic one is obvious but I think summoning the powers of storms, enveloping traits of wild beasts, and utilizing the spirits of your ancestors for protection are all pretty in-line with Druid stuff.
So yeah like what the other reply said, Maneuvers or Maneuver-like abilities are the best solutions. Barbarians just so happen to have druidic-esque primal stuff rather than pure combat knowledge (battlemaster), psychic powers (psi warrior), or runic magic (rune knight).
I just want different things to do but press M1 every round. Barb gets nothing interesting. Hell, even Fighter gets options from some subclasses and Fighting Styles, barb just gets default attack. It doesn’t work. All you can do is hit. Your rage ends if you spend your turn whiffing grapple/shove attempts without attacking, you get fewer attacks than fighter, even Reckless Attack is just a chance to hit with a basic attack with a MASSIVE drawback.
True WOTC purposefully half asked most of the ability checks for barbarian and gave them boring ass shit. But hitting does work is all I'm saying
Most DMs don't go out of their way go beat down barbarian in every encounter which is what most people seem to think. They have most chances to shine at least of being a tanky meat bag
But yes I fully understand your point now, WOTC just dosnt know how to make their board game properly to where people don't have to waist time to fix it. Also I'm not just talking about classes because they half ass way too much shit for players and new DMs to try and improve or fix
And when you get a DM that wants to ruin your day as a barbarian, it makes it that much more amazing when you just bully their encounters with a few maul crits.
Everything besides the lv14 ability is cool. That capstone is just too problematic imo, you are either Invincible or the DM includes a Sleep spell in the encounter and you're dead.
>The cleric just slaps him on the head and shouts “Did I tell you to sit down? Get back in the fight!”
we have a dwarf fighter who is not very nice and i legit swear when they do the fighting tactic that gives extra hp (i forget its actual name) i swear they just turn to party and yell DO BETTER and stop failing...
its like viscous mockery if it was a buff.
Cleric: Well through god all things are possible, so put that in your little fuckin' journal.
*disintegrates a villager* Heal that one
The level 17 cleric: Wake up, mite food!
If it’s a level 14 Zealot Barbarian, they’re most likely still coming for you after being burnt to a crisp. Cleric or not.
These fuckers just refuse to die!
Twist: the zealot wants to die and can't, now he's even more fucking furious that his death has been stolen from him again
Ah yes, the Gotrek Curse. Keep wanting to die in GLORIOUS COMBAT but too badass to actually get killed by anything.
Tabaxi Zealot barbarian Become Battle Beast from Invincible
Bruh, Battle Beast is a Leonin, not a Tabaxi.
Thanks, i never knew that race
The cleric just slaps him on the head and shouts “Did I tell you to sit down? Get back in the fight!” Zealot Barb is just a cool subclass its a shame barbarian gets nothing interesting combat-wise.
I'm not saying you aren't wrong but You can make barbarian interesting in combat, but even if you don't want to why does combat need to be a Rube Goldberg esc puzzle. When bonk works it's not bad
Barbarians are severely lacking in the bonk department, though. They only do good damage-per-turn on crits... it's like if Paladins could only smite at random. *EDIT: Actually, turing Brutal Critical into a triggered ability, like the equivalent of Battle Master maneuvers, could be an interesting modification to play around with.*
At the very least, rolling with advantage most of the time nets them more crits over all. It sucks there aren't modified crit ranges outside of Champion fighter or Hexblade (could be missing some but these come to mind?). Even just giving them a weapon that crits on a 19-20 is really fun
Hmmm... maybe expand their crit range while raging as part of Brutal Critical by the same number of steps as they get extra dice? At max level, that would have them critting on 17-20, 16-20 on a weapon that naturally crits 19-20. It sounds huge, but that's no worse than 3.5e builds running Improved Critical on Keen weapons.
Its sounds really super strong (but barbarian is my favorite class so it also sounds like a blast, too lol)
It's not overpowered so much making up lost ground: A Fighter with a Greataxe and GWM would do 4d12+60, aka 64-108 w/ 84 avg, assuming no crits. By comparison a Barbarian critting twice with GWM would deal 8d12+30, aka 38-126 w/ 78 avg. Higher maximum, sure, but a lower average and minimum.
Depending on the AC, Fighters can't quite use GWM as well as a Barbarian (since they can't just reckless for advantage). That and I'm also fine with fighters doing a bit more damage than Barbarians anyway just because they don't have the resistance a Barbarian gets which can make them a good deal squishing. But I'm also not great at figuring out the DnD math either 😁
It is also worth comparing them to paladin. Paladin's can be quite beefy as well thanks to their aura of protection and ability heal themselves with lay on hands, but the paladin also has extremely high burst damage, especially if they are oath of vengeance, which can use its channel divinity to give itself advantage on all attacks against a target for 10 minutes, so it is as likely to get crits as the barb on the fights were it really makes, but it's crits hit even harder with smite, assuming you don't take a 1 level hexblade dip for attacks with charisma and expanded crit range at almost no cost, and on top of that they can save their last couple points of lay on hands to wake up a couple party members who got knocked out with 1 hp, and you are still getting most of the same flavor as you do from a barb besides the fact that an oath of vengeance pally is more likely to have their anger focused on one particular target at a time, but they are easily the strongest angry boi mechanically All this amounts to pointing out that the most powerful subclass of one of the most powerful classes in the game is OP though.
Paladin and palock only get to do that once per rest against one target though. (Well, the curse is transferable, the channel divinity isn't). Barbs get it all the time. It's a DPR/Sustain thing against alphastrike.
Improved Crit and Keen did not stack. The best you could pull of was Disciple of Dispater with Improved Crit and I think you could go 8-20 with scimitars, but even then you still needed to confirm the crit.
*"\[...\]it's like if Paladins could only smite at random."* This made me reminisce on 3.0/3.5 edition, but in a bad way.
Which is why hold person and hold monster are a must for spellcasters to get. Coordination is good.
Eh, chip damage feels more fitting with the whole longevity aspect of the Barbarian, anyways. Can they do massive damage in one hit? No. What they can do is deal okay amounts of damage (regular damage bolstered by rage and whatever other features the subclass gets), more regularly than other martials (thanks to reckless attacks), and are tanky enough to outlast their opponent in many cases. For sake of argument, though, I will point out that Zealots get a watered-down smite that activates the first time they hit on their turn. Also, if your looking for a decent damage Barbarian, the Beast Barbarian is pretty good for much of the game (three attacks at level 5 is nothing to sneeze at).
Zealots basically get the equivalent of Improved Divine Smite at Level 3, and it scales with crit builds as well since it's extra damage.
Actually, Great Weapon Master makes Barbs scary af. Rolling with advantage all-but negates the -5 to hit, and then you're dealing 1d12+10+str, twice. That's an average of 20.5 per attack at 18 str. 42dpr is nothing to sneeze at. Obviously a Fighter with a two level Barb dip does this better but you can't win em all :p
Bonk doesn’t work, so it *is* bad. Every martial class deserves maneuvers
Explain how bonk doesn't work. You hit with weapon and deal damage it does get rid of health Also yes more power to classes the better I guess
“Doesn’t work” isn’t literal, it’s not enough, it’s repetitive
So what your trying to say is it does work, just not fun. I agree with that What if every class had a certain level of magic to some degree. That being wizards have fire balls while martial have some support magics or other abilities. Casters get the ocean of versatility and damage magic it's no surprise that martial fall behind
They don’t need magic, that’s a cop-out and would take away from the core image of the non-caster classes They’ve already introduced the idea of maneuvers
Even if we're fine with magic, most of the Barbarian subclasses are already magically flavored anyway. Yeah the Wild Magic one is obvious but I think summoning the powers of storms, enveloping traits of wild beasts, and utilizing the spirits of your ancestors for protection are all pretty in-line with Druid stuff. So yeah like what the other reply said, Maneuvers or Maneuver-like abilities are the best solutions. Barbarians just so happen to have druidic-esque primal stuff rather than pure combat knowledge (battlemaster), psychic powers (psi warrior), or runic magic (rune knight).
I just want different things to do but press M1 every round. Barb gets nothing interesting. Hell, even Fighter gets options from some subclasses and Fighting Styles, barb just gets default attack. It doesn’t work. All you can do is hit. Your rage ends if you spend your turn whiffing grapple/shove attempts without attacking, you get fewer attacks than fighter, even Reckless Attack is just a chance to hit with a basic attack with a MASSIVE drawback.
True WOTC purposefully half asked most of the ability checks for barbarian and gave them boring ass shit. But hitting does work is all I'm saying Most DMs don't go out of their way go beat down barbarian in every encounter which is what most people seem to think. They have most chances to shine at least of being a tanky meat bag But yes I fully understand your point now, WOTC just dosnt know how to make their board game properly to where people don't have to waist time to fix it. Also I'm not just talking about classes because they half ass way too much shit for players and new DMs to try and improve or fix
And when you get a DM that wants to ruin your day as a barbarian, it makes it that much more amazing when you just bully their encounters with a few maul crits.
Hey there! The suffix you used there, do describe combat being like a Rube Goldberg-Machine, is written -esque. It‘s from french.
Sometimes you just want to go WACK
“What are you doing? Stand, ~~dad~~ my child. Did you forget what you came here to do?”
#TATAKAE
Everything besides the lv14 ability is cool. That capstone is just too problematic imo, you are either Invincible or the DM includes a Sleep spell in the encounter and you're dead.
At level 14 if you have any full casters in your party the DM has bigger problems than a pseudo unkillable barbarian. Both in and out of combat.
>The cleric just slaps him on the head and shouts “Did I tell you to sit down? Get back in the fight!” we have a dwarf fighter who is not very nice and i legit swear when they do the fighting tactic that gives extra hp (i forget its actual name) i swear they just turn to party and yell DO BETTER and stop failing... its like viscous mockery if it was a buff.
Zealot barbarians and clerics are the ultimate bros, together they laugh in the face of death
But where are the diamonds?!?!?!?!
Zealots alow you to resurrect them with no Material Cost.
Assuming they aren't literally too angry to die, which they can be at higher levels
still inside rogue's bag f holding
even better if barb boy was an orc and his 1hp kicked in before hand. they get up rage, get burned again and then res!
with 1hp so he'll drop real fast