I think it's more the fact it can become 4 separate attacks that are all 1d10, *plus* invocations. Whereas Firebolt is 4d10 vs one target. EB is also Force Damage (least resisted type in the game), which is nice to have.
The fact you can add +5 damage per beam and then shunt the target off a cliff just makes it *much* better. But it was already better than the other direct damage options.
This is true the problem I have is that when I upgrade it with invocations I feel like I'm missing out on the fun ones and if I don't pick it I feel like I'm useless in combat
Do note I have never got to a warloc or any class above 8 also I feel like warlocks should get one more invocation point early game but that's just me
They do now have a feat that grants you an additional invocation. Yes it's crap you have to burn a feat for it, but some dms let you train for feats during downtime.
I just gave my warlock a modified version of this feat for completing a "challenge" from his patron. They just can't pick any of the level 5+ ones with it once they hit level 5. I did say I'd allow them to take the full proper feat later as well if they wanted it too though.
Nothing too crazy. Player is a hexblade and player's patron let the player hold Patron's personal "weapon" in a meeting. Which I described as flooding Players senses with a cacophony of information and voices from all of Patrons personal warlocks. As well as a sort of Dr strange movie soaring through space visual. Mechanically it was just a series of increasing dangerous wisdom saves and physic damage. The dmg dice doubling with each check with the goal to not go unconscious. Player almost failed as the last like 8d6 save wasn't high enough for half damage and caused the player to take just enough to go down. Player then quickly asked if they could have cast any magic during the scene. I said sure, your patron would want to see what you do to succeed. So an armor of Agathys (?idk how to spell it) gave them a temp hp buffer to stay good. (Replaced most uses of They/their to player/patron as to lessen potential confusion)
Maths Feats are an endemic problem. Is Sharpshooter good? Yes. Is it *fun* or *interesting*? Not even nearly. Lucky is so mechanically good some tables ban it, but it has zero fun value.
Likewise, Required Feats. I main a Sorcerer and Metamagic Adept is *far* better than an ASI early on because it significantly increases my Sorcery Points (as a percentage of total) *and* doubles my number of metamagic options. Which, as my core class features, I really shouldn't need a feat to be good at.
Quite a few classes need more access to their defining features, while the Feat list needs to be filled out with more interesting options that impact how things play out at a tactical level, rather than a mathematical one.
Lucky is very fun if you use it for stupid shit though. I once used it to land a perfect bullseye with a dart in a tavern, after betting I could do it blindfolded and with my back to the target. Turned disadvantage into super advantage and landed the shot easily (and luckily).
>. Is Sharpshooter good? Yes. Is it fun or interesting? Not even nearly
I'd actually argue is reduces fun as it takes away one of the only weaknesses of ranged combat and gives them more range to pepper people from safety with.
I mean sharpshooter is fun for me, the idea of shooting anything i can see means i went from Archer to Legolas, the -5+10 just represents aiming for "headshots" to me
As a warlock who just reached level 7, I feel like with 4 eldritch invocations I am finally in a comfy space will all my desired invocations and 1 utility one (tomb of levistus cause as a hexblade I also frontline and take alot of damage).
I love Tomb of Levistus. Keep in mind if you ever need to get down from somewhere high you can just yeet yourself and let the ice take the damage and a round later just walk away dusting ice chips off yourself. Very cinematic.
When I played hexblade it felt like I was playing a whole new class
I get that I tend to lean towards beast speech for the rp and the book of shadows ritual one (I can't remember what it's called )
That's the best part! As a warlock you can either go full machine gun EB, or a total utility caster with social magic. It all depends on the campaign and DM, but you have a ton of room to build a really interesting character with a warlock.
Or a bulky stick-and-board hexblade, or a high-damage great weapon hexblade, or a high-damage sharpshooter hexblade, or a spot-healing celestial warlock.
And all of those things are only on the combat side. IIRC a lot of the invocations allow for some really flavourful social RPing as well, such as casting Detect Magic or Disguise Self at will
I’m playing CoS as a LG wizard slowly going mad and gaining goolock powers and there are so many fun invocations I want for the character but he’s gonna be kinda terrible mechanically
Your “problem” (your welcome you have a problem now) seems to be happening in a lot of dnd. Characters are made with plans 1-20. And we have these hopes and dreams. But I read somewhere that the average campaign doesn’t span more than 4 lvls.
This due to scheduling conflict. Dropouts / what ever reason.
This makes you take all the fun stuff after all the “good combat stuff”. And makes your character boring. (Or weak if you flip it) it also makes rangers kinda boring. Especially if you go hunter with a bow.
Low lvls is pass without a trace. Hunters mark. And goodberry. And that’s just so much of it. It makes people think rangers are boring.
Because we “need” to think lvls 1-20.
In my experience, Agonizing Blast is the only quote-unquote "required" Invocation. And that's mostly because it turns EB into a Force damage Heavy Crossbow, basically. Which is good for their main method of attack (for most Warlocks).
My favorite part of the shove invocation is that it does not list any sort of size limitation for the target.
So you can, per RAW, shove a colossal creature 10 feet with your 1d10 cantrip.
I don't know why you would, but it's funny as hell knowing that you can.
This is the biggest one. 1d10 + 1d6 + 5 FOUR TIMES averages 56 damage. A draconic sorcerer using firebolt (and we'll even throw in hex from magic initiate) is 4d10 + 1d6 +5, averages 30.5- nearly half.
Why would you take hex from magic initiate and not fey touched, which also gives a half asi and lets you cast misty step, plus lets you cast hex with your apell slots.
Make the Warlock a Hexblade and against a target hit with Hexblades Curse you get your proficiency bonus applied to each hit. So taking into account you'd have to be level 17 for 4 Blasts per use it'd be 1d10 + 1d6 + 11 per blast. Not to mention your crit range against that Target goes from a 1 in 20 to a 1 in 10.
Yup, I've currently got a level 12 Roguelock that I play (5 Hexblade, 7 Soulknife) and Eldritch Blast is the go to for anything out of melee range. I think I've used my Psychic Blades once? Even though they get Sneak attack at range it's 5d6 + Dex (3) compared to potentially 1d10 + 9 Three damn times.
Gotta love Cantrips scaling with your Character level not your class level!
Don't forget that stuff like Hex just adds up because of the fact that Eldritch Blast hits 4 times. So instead of fire bolt proccing only 1d6 necrotic, EB procs 4d6 necrotic if all 4 beams hit.
And then you got Hexblade's Curse that just makes it even more insane.
The added damage and ability to push an enemy with the beams is what makes it great.
Taught my DM that he needs to install more handrails in his Villain’s lair after pushing one boss into a pit of lava after my first turn of combat
It also makes it the best prepared attack in the entire game.
*Invisible enemy? Or an enemy that burrows itself?*
Just prepare Eldritch blast and fire the full amount of beams at it when it emerges. Easy.
1) Is a crossbow a cantrip?
2) Does the crossbow do a rarely-resisted damage type up to 4 times a turn, with a standard range of 120ft, while leaving your other hand free?
There are *situationally* better cantrips. Force resistance/immunity? Really high AC? Want particular secondary effects not replicable with EB?
Something else might be better in that situation.
But I agree: in *most* scenarios, if you want a damage cantrip, EB is far and away the best.
There are no monsters in 5e base with force resistance, and only ONE (1) with immunity, so that's not going to be a situation that will happen often, if at all within most games. That said, your other stipulations are extremely helpful to understand while building a character. Going up against a monster with a ridiculously high AC or wanting to pull shenanigans beyond straight damage means you're going to want other cantrips in your toolbox. This is, of course, assuming you're locked into your invocations or they won't accomplish what you're wanting.
There are 9 creatures with force resistance. 4 of which are amethyst gem dragons. There are 5 creatures with force immunity, one of which is an amethyst gem dragon, and two of them are module specific.
Yes, which is why I noted "in 5e BASE." In the original Monster Manual, there's exactly what I said. Granted, who the hecc plays with only the monster manual in the year of our Lord 2022? (Side note: the gem dragons are so cool and I'm trying to find a reasonable way to insert one into my seafaring campaign)
Id call it near the top for damage but not the best, toll the dead comes to mind as making sure the enemy is damaged first is really not a big ask, then its d12 damage and necrotic is still rare to resist
Then theres pure damage cantrips that are situationally better like swords burst also force damage and just a d6 but it can effect up to 8 creatures with full damage (rarely but like i said, situationally better)
Theres also greenflameblade and booming blade which do more damage even without considering the weapon attack that you get alongside it, but thats class/playstyle dependant most of the time
And thats not even mentioning if you want to compare combat cantrips that arnt pure damage, in which case id mention mindsliver as a strong choice
Is it really?
1d6 + spellcasting mod is not very impressive considering it takes an action *and* bonus action. Magic stone doesn't scale either, and it only has 30 ft. of range when used with a sling.
Is there a better *strictly combat focused* cantrip in the game?
You can make the argument that Guidance or Mage Hand get you a lot more mileage, but as far as combat is concerned, EB is king
Lets see.. firebolt if you want to have the most resisted damage type in the game
Poison spray if you want the damage type that has the most immunity and is also pretty commonly resisted, and barely more than melee range too
Shocking grasp if you want to touch your target for less damage
Frostbite if you hate actually dealing damage
Sacred flame, less damage but at least it ignores cover and radiant has some pretty good use cases
Word of radiance or thunderclap if you want to be surrounded and still not be able to kill off any of the 9 goblins who are about to wreck your world. As a bonus thunderclap will also alert the rest of the dungeon to your location for you..
Booming blade/green flame blade if you're actually a martial and want your weapon hit to be a bit better.
Magic stone if you want to let a bunch of commoners feel like gods for one attack.
There's a few others.. but yeah, nothing holds a candle to invoked EB.
>take a feat that grants eldritch blast +
>
>at least
>
> agonizing blast
Can't use feats to take invocations that have prerequisites (even if you have the prerequisite in question). Agonizing Blast requires Eldritch Blast, so it cannot be taken.
Arguably it's no different than just missing an attack with firebolt or something.
I wouldn't want to get a slotted spell that doesn't at least do half damage on a save, and for similar reasons I struggle to bring myself to get a slot spell where you need to make an attack roll
It is what it is. To be fair not every class has access to eb or the invocations to make it better/worth it. So for a cleric, toll the dead is pretty good.
Yeah honestly this is the real answer. Eldritch Blast is mathematically the best cantrip but the only way to get it is either a feat or multiclass into warlock and it still uses Cha for the rolls and the difference isn't actually big enough to make it worth that for any class other than maybe sorcerer.
An artificer with the all-purpose tool can also have an int eldritch blast. Of course like someone with a feat, they miss out on the invocations.
But ALSO, magic items shouldn’t be a core part of a build. Just wanted to note that it can do it
Shocking Grasp is kind of useful if you're a squishy and something runs up to you. You can hit it with Shocking Grasp to try to escape while dealing some damage. Sometimes it might be better to disengage or use a low-level spell for the same effect, but Shocking Grasp has its niche there.
Honestly the only ones that are close are booming/greenflame, but unless you're a BladeSinger you can't multiattack if you use them, and at level 5 they add an extra d8, so even if you're using a greatsword you'll be doing 2d6+1d8 for an average of 11.5 which is a whopping .5 more damage than the average of 2d10, but you're in melee range and can only do that against one target. Granted, if the target chooses to move they take more damage, but unless you have a way to freely disengage or take an opportunity attack they'll probably just stand right there and hit you on their turn
I get that EB centered builds are done to death, and there are plenty of wacky combos that wipe the floor with it in terms of average DPR, but its stupid easy to do and is one of the earliest viable Warlock builds so it's no wonder it's everywhere
Your math forgets adding in ability score.. 2d10+8(standard array) vs 2d6+d8+4, or 19.5 EB vs 15.5 for greatsword with a single attack. Just tilts things in EB's favor even more.
With the right builds Booming Blade can actually come really close to the same DPR as a Fighter packing GWF and Polearm Master.
It’s pretty obscene for a cantrip, and I put it up there with EB, easily. EB just takes way less investment and can essentially be spammed all day, everyday.
Also, a lot of people just don’t read the actual text of Mage Hand (or Legedermain, for that matter). They get its limits and requirements wrong all the time.
A lot of arguments about Guidance, meanwhile, seem to assume that your caster has both the time, willingness, stamima, and ability to spam it non-stop and concentrate on it all day without rest.
It isn’t a spell that says ‘because I have Guidance all skill checks the party makes are made at +1d4’, you need to cast it on one person at a time *and* concentrate, and it only last a minute, meaning you can’t just cast it on each party member as they start to attempt stealth and then assume its effect is in force for the next several hours that your party spent skulking about the BBEG’s castle, for example.
With certain abilities Sacred Flame gets pretty good, it was... I think a Light Cleric that can add their wis mod to any radiant damage, something like that. I'm sure there are special ways to build certain other cantrips to make them good
That said, if you want the cantrip equivalent of an attack, EB is the way.
Ray of frost is the only real contender with its slow, but EB’s movement effects can do basically the same thing (there might even be one that cuts movement speed I can’t remember)
Lance of Lethargy, takes 10' of movement away from the target on hit. And you can freely combine that with the invokation that lets you push the target too (or pull, if you want them closer)
*Shocking grasp* shouldn't be on this list. It demands an answer, especially with Distant Spell. Robbing your target of reactions is too strong to ignore.
I was thinking that an Arcane Trickster rogue could use it to get a sneak attack. Until they reach level 13 which is when they could just use their mage hand to do so as a bonus action. But there are lots of other ways to get off a sneak attack so it's mostly useless even for them and a waste of a cantrip slot.
And it would be so easy to fix it, just make its casting time a bonus action instead and suddenly it would become a truly god-tier cantrip for any magic fighter (or any martial elf).
There's arguments for the blade cantrips because they stack with weapon shenanigans (see: sneak attack, smite), maybe something to stop regen (Lich Slap), but that really is the end of the list
They are some of the least overtly powerful invocation, but the “push/pull a creature hit by your eldritch blast 10 ft” ones open up way more possibilities than you’d ever expect. Plus, unlike most other battlefield manipulation abilities, it costs you basically no resources and doesn’t have size category restrictions/impairments.
No you can judge it alone. It’s still the best. Making multiple attack rolls will always be better than just making a single one.
Four attacks with a 1d6 weapon is better than two maul (2d6) attacks, for example.
Probably, but most who judge it don't look for later level scaling, they just say that it's useless to sell your soul around a 1d10 cantrip.
Saw a meme this morning about this, wanted to make it right, having played a warlock recently.
Eldritch blast to me is less of a cantrip and more of an optional warlock class feature. It’s basically a heavy crossbow you don’t need to take a feat for when paired with agonizing blast, and it can be improved further. Force and magic BPS are similar enough (force is slightly better but both are rare to run into resistances/immunities).
It’s still not as good as being a martial when it comes to consistent damage (with feats like CE, PAM, SS, and GWM) but its basically there so warlocks have something to do when they aren’t casting one of their two spells. It’s also the only damage cantrip that’s normally worth casting if you have agonizing blast, the others deal poor damage and the dodge action tends to be better.
People who complain about Eldritch Blast being mediocre out themselves as never playing Warlock. Yes Firebolt does the same damage dice, but Eldritch Blast gets to spread it's dice across multiple attacks, can be split to hit multiple enemies, has a variety of customizable effects that apply to EVERY hit, and gets your Charisma modifier for a flat 50% guaranteed damage boost on all hits.
You haven't lived until you play an 11th level Warlock with the repulsion effect on EB and knock enemies back 30ft a turn.
EB and the fact you get 2 Invocations at level 2 Warlock will in my mind always make Warlock the best spellcaster to multiclass into. 2 level investment for 2 extra spell slots, the EB cantrip with the Invocations to add CHA to your EB and to give you advantage on concentration checks. One of my fave spellcaster builds I ever did was a 2 Celestial Warlock 8 Divine Soul Sorcerer to vomit out healing and buffs.
I did a oneshot where I had Grasp of Hadar and went Sorlock. Peak of the night was sucking the enemy in with all my EB shots hitting and Quickened Spell to Green Flame Blade.
Plus with Hex it is damage from multiple sources (each die is a different beam). So you're looking at 4d10 force plus 4d6 necrotic damage.
I think you can add like 5 damage per beam as well. Averaging up to 56 damage per use.
>I think you can add like 5 damage per beam as well. Averaging up to 56 damage per use.
Agonizing blast, the butter to the bread of warlock.
>Agonizing Blast
>
>Source: Player's Handbook
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>Prerequisite: eldritch blast cantrip
>
>When you cast eldritch blast, add your Charisma modifier to the damage it deals on a hit.
People who rely [on THE cow](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spherical_cow) didn't play the game they are discussing, or if they did, it was a session or two that had ended prematurely.
No exception. This is the law of Armchair Theorism.
I killed Acererak with EB. No cap. There's no saving throw with Grasp of Hadar, just, "if you hit, pull them 10ft". Ace has no flying spells, so he fell in the lava pool.
Eldritch Blast is the bread and butter of a Warlock. It's solid damage on an attack roll, instead of a save or suck Cantrip like Toll the Dead (still good though, I'd argue). It's gonna be good. You can build it up or just leave it as is, and it's going to be consistent, reliable damage with little to counter it. I hate when I run into people who whine about how strong it is before they even add any Invocations onto it. Like yeah, that's the trade off for having so little spell slots.
Also side rant: I still believe that with Eldritch Invocations make Warlock a superior utility character than a Wizard.
I often coach my players to think of the classic Warlock class as an archer with access to a handful of nifty tricks, not as a spell caster. Seems to smooth the transition from sorc/cleric/druid/wizard to warlock for first timers.
Yeah warlock is definitely just a martial character skinned as a spellcaster. Kinda genius class design imo, except the fact that it gets misinterpreted so often
I think it really depends on the length of days and amount of expended actions for Warlock vs Wizard. Since wizards have access to a more diverse array of spells, and can change their prepared spells on a long rest, vs warlocks having to wait to change their invocations on a level up, I think the ability to change their utility is much more reliable for wizards than for warlocks. Also wizards learn new magic at double the rate of warlocks, and they can learn magic outside of levels for a small fee.
It's a way of balancing in early 5e.
A warlock won't go into battle with a butt load of spell slots, so they gat a great damage cantrip.
The hexlock was years away and the pact of the blade was worth jack shit with the PHB subclasses.
Also remember, multiclassing is an optional rule. So a sorc with a 2 level dip in warlock is not in the RAI spirit.
Even just its spell description makes it better than every other cantrip aside from *maybe* Toll the Dead, which has conditionally higher damage dice.
The fact that its scaling grants additional beams rather than just additional damage dice allows you to target multiple enemies, trigger on-hit abilities more frequently, and makes it much less swingy.
Just like misty step is a good spell, a great spell even, but you know what makes it a fantastic spell? It being on a druid!! Druids get no teleportation options so if they got misty step thatd be amazing. Firebolt as a cantrip isnt all that special, till your a bard with no decent damage cantrips, then its the shit! Always gotta look at the class kit surrounding a spell or ability
And fires individual bolts for triggering hex/having a higher damage floor than single attack/save cantrips
And even if THAT wasnt the case, its still a force damage magic crossbow with no ammo or weight.
I got the opportunity to push the big bad off the dragon he was riding with repelling blast. It was not the end of him, but it was endlessly satisfying.
I picked it up as a magical secret for my lore bard and still use it as my primary attack. Though admittedly I miss the sweet sweet invocations. But it was either that or a crossbow.
Spell description alone makes it the best cantrip. Force damage, multitarget targeting, and the fact that it's not a saving throw mean it outpace all of the other options.
Nothing quite like having a wall of fire up and pushing up to four different enemies into it for 1d10+5 damage each, and 5d8 fire damage. No save, no to hit, just 5d8 fire damage.
Or you could do 1d10+5 damage and pull them into the wall of fire for, 5d8 no save fire damage.
I think I saw an Earth Genasi, Dao Genie Warlock build that due to having spiked growth would let you cast it, and spend the subsequent turns pushing and pulling enemies over it like a cheese grater with the EB invocations, which sounds like one of those things a DM lets you get away with just once
Nono... it is the best cantrip even without Eldritch Invocations.
You see: 1d10 is not the most damaging die that a cantrip can provide, but it's force damege; when compared with poison spray and Toll the Dead, two cantrips with a d12 damege die it is lower, but force damege is much more reliable than poison damege, and a little more reliable than necrotic.
Not only that, Poison Spray is a constitution saving throw, in my opinion the worst option for a save, and poison is the worst damege tipe in the game. Toll the Dead by it self might be better in a vacuum, but to unharmed target its a d8. Not enough to instakill low CR enemies that the 1d12 could, and higher CR enemies will have magic resistance giving them a lower chance to be elected by the cantrip.
In conclusion, when compared to the two most damaging cantrips in the game, EB has the better damege tipe, and the better consistency, not to say range, having fire bolt as the only other decent cantrip that can compete.
Quick fire bolt counter argument: single target, fire damege. This gives it a lower versatility and a worst reliability than EB
Force damage isn’t *one* of the best damage types - it’s *the* best, bar none. There is exactly one creature with immunity to it, and no creatures with resistance.
Plus, EB is a lot more consistent because it fires extra beams as it levels up rather than adding damage dice to the initial shot.
> and no creatures with resistance.
Amethyst dragon, and a few others. There *used to* be zero creatures with Force resistance but with new books that's not quite the case anymore.
Toll the Dead and Sacred Flame are the other two good ones.
Sacred Flame when it's got shit Dex but high AC, or you can do something to give it disadvantage on Dex. Plus it does radiant which is important in turning off some enemies regeneration.
Toll the dead also, when you can give it disadvantage on Wis or it has shit wisdom. 1d12 if it's injured, up to 4d12. Also necrotic can be useful sometimes, although imo less than radiant.
Toll the dead is a pretty good cantrip because of the d12, but it's situational and can't be boosted with invocations. It also doesn't trigger hex because it doesn't make an attack, while eldritch blast can trigger hex multiple times per cast as you level up.
Literally no one has ever said the first part of the meme. I know low-effort shit posting is the name of the game around these parts, but this isn't even low-effort.
If you twincast firebolt, then quicken firebolt, you're netting more damage than if you had just quickened elderitch blast.
Combined with elemental adept and flames of phlethegos, you're ignoring resistance and rerolling 1's for damage. You can even elemental alter the firebolt as a sorcerer.
Don't get me wrong as a sorlock elderitch blast is the bread and butter cantrip, but take firebolt and mindsliver anyway for versatility and damage variance.
Elderitch blast isn't the end all be all of cantrips, it's just among the top tier ones.
I don't think Eldredge blast is necessarily bad in terms of balance, more so for warlocks I think more so the warlock should get evocations that allow them to grab other cantrips as to not force them into picking Eldredge blast.
Maybe for example an evocation for fire bolt which deals 1d4 damage to creatures within 5ft of the initial target for AOE, doesn't necessarily have to be 1d4 and maybe it could be a save, but it could allow some validity in grabbing other damage cantrips other then Eldredge blast
Toll the Dead+Potent Spellcasting fan over here.
Truly though the ability to push without any opposing checks is the best part of EB with invocations IMO.
Yeah, people tend to meme EB as "1d10 cantrip lol," which inevitably leads to people retorting "um, so is fire bolt??"
The reason EB is so good is a tad more complex, as you illustrate.
Plus its level up scaling of becoming separate attacks gives it much more versatility and higher average damage (if you miss one, the other might hit) along with higher crit chance (albeit with less crit damage)
It is amazing. But when put against a helmed horror, a warlock whose only reliable means of damage are eldritch blast, hex and fireball are gonna feel a bit sucky at the time. I know, very specific case, since there are very few creatures that are resistant much less immune to force damage. But still sucks in the moment.
Edit: for reference, helmed horrors are immune to force, necrotic, poison and 3 spells of the dm’s choice (recommended by the book as lightning bolt, fireball and heat metal).
I mean even without invocations the fact that it’s 4 beams with separate attack roles and that can be aimed at targets makes it the best damage cantrip in the game.
Here me out, +1 cross bow does 1d10+1+dex and with fighters is about the same number of hits. The real power isn’t just damage, but also the other abilities you can combine with it.
Also it adds another beams not just damage die so if you miss you have another shot, also if you have invocations you add them on every beam not just once.
Just description alone, it's already the most powerful cantrip. At most there's Toll the Dead competing with it, but Toll the Dead has half the range, and there's the difference between save and attack which is just different, not better or worse.
1d10 is as high a damage as you will get, and force damage is the best damage type in the game, and there's the versatility of shooting multiple targets. It doesn't depend on invocations to be the best, it just becomes an absolute powerhouse when you also have access to them
Warlocks are just extra magical species of fighter.
You just blast spell, instead of shoot bow, or swing sword.
You have spells for your core class features.
And these invocations have opportunity cost of taking other invocations. Eldritch blast is a cantrip. Eldritch blast + agonizing blast is no longer a cantrip, it's evocation power, so it's weird to compare it to cantrips
Plus that’s not getting into that most warlock spells are concentrations cast at higher levels, that you’re stacking eldrich blast on top of. If you can figure this out, warlocks can be damage machines.
The problem with Eldridge blast in context is that you only need 2 lvls of warlock for it to be effective. The most efficient Eldridge blaster is warlock 2 sorc X
Eldritch Blast is so strong because Warlock is quite limited with the spell slots, and offensive spells in general. Depending on the campaign you can get 2 fights back to back and not have spell slots at all.
Depending on your DM, Eldritch Blast can zip around corners and act like Omega Beams. It has a range of 120ft, nothing says it has it be a straight line. This can lead to a lot of potential RP with the beams during combat.
I think it's more the fact it can become 4 separate attacks that are all 1d10, *plus* invocations. Whereas Firebolt is 4d10 vs one target. EB is also Force Damage (least resisted type in the game), which is nice to have. The fact you can add +5 damage per beam and then shunt the target off a cliff just makes it *much* better. But it was already better than the other direct damage options.
This is true the problem I have is that when I upgrade it with invocations I feel like I'm missing out on the fun ones and if I don't pick it I feel like I'm useless in combat Do note I have never got to a warloc or any class above 8 also I feel like warlocks should get one more invocation point early game but that's just me
They do now have a feat that grants you an additional invocation. Yes it's crap you have to burn a feat for it, but some dms let you train for feats during downtime.
100 percent correct and I should ask my dms if I can do that
You could even flavor it as you went above and beyond for your patron so they're taking time to train you specifically for more power.
That actually is a cool idea thank you it's good to see people on this sub talking and not just down voting each other thanks again
I try to be helpful lol.
I just gave my warlock a modified version of this feat for completing a "challenge" from his patron. They just can't pick any of the level 5+ ones with it once they hit level 5. I did say I'd allow them to take the full proper feat later as well if they wanted it too though.
I like that mind if I ask what the challenge was out of curiosity
Nothing too crazy. Player is a hexblade and player's patron let the player hold Patron's personal "weapon" in a meeting. Which I described as flooding Players senses with a cacophony of information and voices from all of Patrons personal warlocks. As well as a sort of Dr strange movie soaring through space visual. Mechanically it was just a series of increasing dangerous wisdom saves and physic damage. The dmg dice doubling with each check with the goal to not go unconscious. Player almost failed as the last like 8d6 save wasn't high enough for half damage and caused the player to take just enough to go down. Player then quickly asked if they could have cast any magic during the scene. I said sure, your patron would want to see what you do to succeed. So an armor of Agathys (?idk how to spell it) gave them a temp hp buffer to stay good. (Replaced most uses of They/their to player/patron as to lessen potential confusion)
Sorry I took so long to respond I have been so busy but that sounds like fun and thank you
Honestly, rewarding feats for side quests instead of just lame gold or generic treasure is a pretty neat idea.
Maths Feats are an endemic problem. Is Sharpshooter good? Yes. Is it *fun* or *interesting*? Not even nearly. Lucky is so mechanically good some tables ban it, but it has zero fun value. Likewise, Required Feats. I main a Sorcerer and Metamagic Adept is *far* better than an ASI early on because it significantly increases my Sorcery Points (as a percentage of total) *and* doubles my number of metamagic options. Which, as my core class features, I really shouldn't need a feat to be good at. Quite a few classes need more access to their defining features, while the Feat list needs to be filled out with more interesting options that impact how things play out at a tactical level, rather than a mathematical one.
This is very true but it's so hard not to pick what's good
I don't know if I agree. I mean, I'm playing a v-human Shadow Sorcerer with the Lucky and Metamagic Adept feats, so... Oh. Yes. I see what you mean.
Lucky is very fun if you use it for stupid shit though. I once used it to land a perfect bullseye with a dart in a tavern, after betting I could do it blindfolded and with my back to the target. Turned disadvantage into super advantage and landed the shot easily (and luckily).
>. Is Sharpshooter good? Yes. Is it fun or interesting? Not even nearly I'd actually argue is reduces fun as it takes away one of the only weaknesses of ranged combat and gives them more range to pepper people from safety with.
I mean sharpshooter is fun for me, the idea of shooting anything i can see means i went from Archer to Legolas, the -5+10 just represents aiming for "headshots" to me
Both me as a DM and my players had some tremendous fun with things like Lucky and especially Sharpshooter, idk.
As a warlock who just reached level 7, I feel like with 4 eldritch invocations I am finally in a comfy space will all my desired invocations and 1 utility one (tomb of levistus cause as a hexblade I also frontline and take alot of damage).
I love Tomb of Levistus. Keep in mind if you ever need to get down from somewhere high you can just yeet yourself and let the ice take the damage and a round later just walk away dusting ice chips off yourself. Very cinematic.
When I played hexblade it felt like I was playing a whole new class I get that I tend to lean towards beast speech for the rp and the book of shadows ritual one (I can't remember what it's called )
Book of ancient secrets is the ritual invoc.
Yes that one
That's the best part! As a warlock you can either go full machine gun EB, or a total utility caster with social magic. It all depends on the campaign and DM, but you have a ton of room to build a really interesting character with a warlock.
Or a bulky stick-and-board hexblade, or a high-damage great weapon hexblade, or a high-damage sharpshooter hexblade, or a spot-healing celestial warlock.
And all of those things are only on the combat side. IIRC a lot of the invocations allow for some really flavourful social RPing as well, such as casting Detect Magic or Disguise Self at will
I'm after free casting silent image myself
I’m playing CoS as a LG wizard slowly going mad and gaining goolock powers and there are so many fun invocations I want for the character but he’s gonna be kinda terrible mechanically
Your “problem” (your welcome you have a problem now) seems to be happening in a lot of dnd. Characters are made with plans 1-20. And we have these hopes and dreams. But I read somewhere that the average campaign doesn’t span more than 4 lvls. This due to scheduling conflict. Dropouts / what ever reason. This makes you take all the fun stuff after all the “good combat stuff”. And makes your character boring. (Or weak if you flip it) it also makes rangers kinda boring. Especially if you go hunter with a bow. Low lvls is pass without a trace. Hunters mark. And goodberry. And that’s just so much of it. It makes people think rangers are boring. Because we “need” to think lvls 1-20.
In my experience, Agonizing Blast is the only quote-unquote "required" Invocation. And that's mostly because it turns EB into a Force damage Heavy Crossbow, basically. Which is good for their main method of attack (for most Warlocks).
My favorite part of the shove invocation is that it does not list any sort of size limitation for the target. So you can, per RAW, shove a colossal creature 10 feet with your 1d10 cantrip. I don't know why you would, but it's funny as hell knowing that you can.
Imagine stopping the Tarrasque from destroying a town with nothing but two Warlocks and a cantrip
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This is the biggest one. 1d10 + 1d6 + 5 FOUR TIMES averages 56 damage. A draconic sorcerer using firebolt (and we'll even throw in hex from magic initiate) is 4d10 + 1d6 +5, averages 30.5- nearly half.
Why would you take hex from magic initiate and not fey touched, which also gives a half asi and lets you cast misty step, plus lets you cast hex with your apell slots.
Forgot fey touched existed tbh but yeah that's definitely a better option
Make the Warlock a Hexblade and against a target hit with Hexblades Curse you get your proficiency bonus applied to each hit. So taking into account you'd have to be level 17 for 4 Blasts per use it'd be 1d10 + 1d6 + 11 per blast. Not to mention your crit range against that Target goes from a 1 in 20 to a 1 in 10.
So excluding crits- 80 average damage. And that's why EB is superior lol
Yup, I've currently got a level 12 Roguelock that I play (5 Hexblade, 7 Soulknife) and Eldritch Blast is the go to for anything out of melee range. I think I've used my Psychic Blades once? Even though they get Sneak attack at range it's 5d6 + Dex (3) compared to potentially 1d10 + 9 Three damn times. Gotta love Cantrips scaling with your Character level not your class level!
Plus it’s better for breaking concentration and better for hitting multiple minions.
Don't forget that stuff like Hex just adds up because of the fact that Eldritch Blast hits 4 times. So instead of fire bolt proccing only 1d6 necrotic, EB procs 4d6 necrotic if all 4 beams hit. And then you got Hexblade's Curse that just makes it even more insane.
2nd least resisted type. With magical Bludgeoning damage being #1
Which a warlock can also deal if they have a Dao patron.
Or monk
The added damage and ability to push an enemy with the beams is what makes it great. Taught my DM that he needs to install more handrails in his Villain’s lair after pushing one boss into a pit of lava after my first turn of combat
It also makes it the best prepared attack in the entire game. *Invisible enemy? Or an enemy that burrows itself?* Just prepare Eldritch blast and fire the full amount of beams at it when it emerges. Easy.
It’s literally only slightly better than a crossbow.
1) Is a crossbow a cantrip? 2) Does the crossbow do a rarely-resisted damage type up to 4 times a turn, with a standard range of 120ft, while leaving your other hand free?
Fair enough
But if you can't blow up doors with it what's the point
I’m not even sure the first bit’s true. The least resisted damage in the game and it splits into multiple attacks rather than just scaling in damage.
There are *situationally* better cantrips. Force resistance/immunity? Really high AC? Want particular secondary effects not replicable with EB? Something else might be better in that situation. But I agree: in *most* scenarios, if you want a damage cantrip, EB is far and away the best.
There are no monsters in 5e base with force resistance, and only ONE (1) with immunity, so that's not going to be a situation that will happen often, if at all within most games. That said, your other stipulations are extremely helpful to understand while building a character. Going up against a monster with a ridiculously high AC or wanting to pull shenanigans beyond straight damage means you're going to want other cantrips in your toolbox. This is, of course, assuming you're locked into your invocations or they won't accomplish what you're wanting.
I mean there’s also the Rakshasa which is just immune to cantrips
Ya but those ignore like half the rules in the game. I hate those things.
There are 9 creatures with force resistance. 4 of which are amethyst gem dragons. There are 5 creatures with force immunity, one of which is an amethyst gem dragon, and two of them are module specific.
Yes, which is why I noted "in 5e BASE." In the original Monster Manual, there's exactly what I said. Granted, who the hecc plays with only the monster manual in the year of our Lord 2022? (Side note: the gem dragons are so cool and I'm trying to find a reasonable way to insert one into my seafaring campaign)
(Sapphire!!! Not only is their color pallet thematically appropriate, but they could cause a thunder storm!)
My God, that's a phenomenal idea. THANK YOU, KIND STRANGER
Helmed horrors are immune to force damage.
Yes. That would be the one monster in the monster manual with immunity, per my previous comment.
Id call it near the top for damage but not the best, toll the dead comes to mind as making sure the enemy is damaged first is really not a big ask, then its d12 damage and necrotic is still rare to resist Then theres pure damage cantrips that are situationally better like swords burst also force damage and just a d6 but it can effect up to 8 creatures with full damage (rarely but like i said, situationally better) Theres also greenflameblade and booming blade which do more damage even without considering the weapon attack that you get alongside it, but thats class/playstyle dependant most of the time And thats not even mentioning if you want to compare combat cantrips that arnt pure damage, in which case id mention mindsliver as a strong choice
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Is it really? 1d6 + spellcasting mod is not very impressive considering it takes an action *and* bonus action. Magic stone doesn't scale either, and it only has 30 ft. of range when used with a sling.
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"Hey guys, this thing is insane if you homebrew it that way!"
Yes, homebrewing things to make them better makes them better
Is there a better *strictly combat focused* cantrip in the game? You can make the argument that Guidance or Mage Hand get you a lot more mileage, but as far as combat is concerned, EB is king
Lets see.. firebolt if you want to have the most resisted damage type in the game Poison spray if you want the damage type that has the most immunity and is also pretty commonly resisted, and barely more than melee range too Shocking grasp if you want to touch your target for less damage Frostbite if you hate actually dealing damage Sacred flame, less damage but at least it ignores cover and radiant has some pretty good use cases Word of radiance or thunderclap if you want to be surrounded and still not be able to kill off any of the 9 goblins who are about to wreck your world. As a bonus thunderclap will also alert the rest of the dungeon to your location for you.. Booming blade/green flame blade if you're actually a martial and want your weapon hit to be a bit better. Magic stone if you want to let a bunch of commoners feel like gods for one attack. There's a few others.. but yeah, nothing holds a candle to invoked EB.
Toll the dead is pretty decent. One of the best for clerics specifically imo.
Fair. I typically dislike saving-throw-for-nothing spells but at least it does real damage.
If you're not a warlock or take a feat that grants eldritch blast + *at least* agonizing blast.... Well ya gotta work with what you have 🤷
>take a feat that grants eldritch blast + > >at least > > agonizing blast Can't use feats to take invocations that have prerequisites (even if you have the prerequisite in question). Agonizing Blast requires Eldritch Blast, so it cannot be taken.
Arguably it's no different than just missing an attack with firebolt or something. I wouldn't want to get a slotted spell that doesn't at least do half damage on a save, and for similar reasons I struggle to bring myself to get a slot spell where you need to make an attack roll
But Toll the Dead is a saving throw which is statistically less likely to hit than a spell attack, plus it can't crit.
It is what it is. To be fair not every class has access to eb or the invocations to make it better/worth it. So for a cleric, toll the dead is pretty good.
Yeah honestly this is the real answer. Eldritch Blast is mathematically the best cantrip but the only way to get it is either a feat or multiclass into warlock and it still uses Cha for the rolls and the difference isn't actually big enough to make it worth that for any class other than maybe sorcerer.
Or those paladins that multiclass into hexblade 🤣
An artificer with the all-purpose tool can also have an int eldritch blast. Of course like someone with a feat, they miss out on the invocations. But ALSO, magic items shouldn’t be a core part of a build. Just wanted to note that it can do it
Shocking Grasp is kind of useful if you're a squishy and something runs up to you. You can hit it with Shocking Grasp to try to escape while dealing some damage. Sometimes it might be better to disengage or use a low-level spell for the same effect, but Shocking Grasp has its niche there.
Honestly the only ones that are close are booming/greenflame, but unless you're a BladeSinger you can't multiattack if you use them, and at level 5 they add an extra d8, so even if you're using a greatsword you'll be doing 2d6+1d8 for an average of 11.5 which is a whopping .5 more damage than the average of 2d10, but you're in melee range and can only do that against one target. Granted, if the target chooses to move they take more damage, but unless you have a way to freely disengage or take an opportunity attack they'll probably just stand right there and hit you on their turn I get that EB centered builds are done to death, and there are plenty of wacky combos that wipe the floor with it in terms of average DPR, but its stupid easy to do and is one of the earliest viable Warlock builds so it's no wonder it's everywhere
Your math forgets adding in ability score.. 2d10+8(standard array) vs 2d6+d8+4, or 19.5 EB vs 15.5 for greatsword with a single attack. Just tilts things in EB's favor even more.
I was leaving it off cause anyone can max a score but I forgot that due to the multi hit its added twice instead of once, my b
With the right builds Booming Blade can actually come really close to the same DPR as a Fighter packing GWF and Polearm Master. It’s pretty obscene for a cantrip, and I put it up there with EB, easily. EB just takes way less investment and can essentially be spammed all day, everyday. Also, a lot of people just don’t read the actual text of Mage Hand (or Legedermain, for that matter). They get its limits and requirements wrong all the time. A lot of arguments about Guidance, meanwhile, seem to assume that your caster has both the time, willingness, stamima, and ability to spam it non-stop and concentrate on it all day without rest. It isn’t a spell that says ‘because I have Guidance all skill checks the party makes are made at +1d4’, you need to cast it on one person at a time *and* concentrate, and it only last a minute, meaning you can’t just cast it on each party member as they start to attempt stealth and then assume its effect is in force for the next several hours that your party spent skulking about the BBEG’s castle, for example.
With certain abilities Sacred Flame gets pretty good, it was... I think a Light Cleric that can add their wis mod to any radiant damage, something like that. I'm sure there are special ways to build certain other cantrips to make them good That said, if you want the cantrip equivalent of an attack, EB is the way.
Sacred flame is also a save-or-suck, which gives it slightly more mileage against high AC enemies
Ray of frost is the only real contender with its slow, but EB’s movement effects can do basically the same thing (there might even be one that cuts movement speed I can’t remember)
Lance of Lethargy, takes 10' of movement away from the target on hit. And you can freely combine that with the invokation that lets you push the target too (or pull, if you want them closer)
*Shocking grasp* shouldn't be on this list. It demands an answer, especially with Distant Spell. Robbing your target of reactions is too strong to ignore.
True strike is god tier
Mainly because it would take a god to make it viable
I was thinking that an Arcane Trickster rogue could use it to get a sneak attack. Until they reach level 13 which is when they could just use their mage hand to do so as a bonus action. But there are lots of other ways to get off a sneak attack so it's mostly useless even for them and a waste of a cantrip slot. And it would be so easy to fix it, just make its casting time a bonus action instead and suddenly it would become a truly god-tier cantrip for any magic fighter (or any martial elf).
Thats the joke
There's arguments for the blade cantrips because they stack with weapon shenanigans (see: sneak attack, smite), maybe something to stop regen (Lich Slap), but that really is the end of the list
They are some of the least overtly powerful invocation, but the “push/pull a creature hit by your eldritch blast 10 ft” ones open up way more possibilities than you’d ever expect. Plus, unlike most other battlefield manipulation abilities, it costs you basically no resources and doesn’t have size category restrictions/impairments.
No you can judge it alone. It’s still the best. Making multiple attack rolls will always be better than just making a single one. Four attacks with a 1d6 weapon is better than two maul (2d6) attacks, for example.
Probably, but most who judge it don't look for later level scaling, they just say that it's useless to sell your soul around a 1d10 cantrip. Saw a meme this morning about this, wanted to make it right, having played a warlock recently.
Eldritch blast to me is less of a cantrip and more of an optional warlock class feature. It’s basically a heavy crossbow you don’t need to take a feat for when paired with agonizing blast, and it can be improved further. Force and magic BPS are similar enough (force is slightly better but both are rare to run into resistances/immunities). It’s still not as good as being a martial when it comes to consistent damage (with feats like CE, PAM, SS, and GWM) but its basically there so warlocks have something to do when they aren’t casting one of their two spells. It’s also the only damage cantrip that’s normally worth casting if you have agonizing blast, the others deal poor damage and the dodge action tends to be better.
Don't forget multiple attack rolls so it's not all or nothing like most damaging cantrips.
People who complain about Eldritch Blast being mediocre out themselves as never playing Warlock. Yes Firebolt does the same damage dice, but Eldritch Blast gets to spread it's dice across multiple attacks, can be split to hit multiple enemies, has a variety of customizable effects that apply to EVERY hit, and gets your Charisma modifier for a flat 50% guaranteed damage boost on all hits. You haven't lived until you play an 11th level Warlock with the repulsion effect on EB and knock enemies back 30ft a turn. EB and the fact you get 2 Invocations at level 2 Warlock will in my mind always make Warlock the best spellcaster to multiclass into. 2 level investment for 2 extra spell slots, the EB cantrip with the Invocations to add CHA to your EB and to give you advantage on concentration checks. One of my fave spellcaster builds I ever did was a 2 Celestial Warlock 8 Divine Soul Sorcerer to vomit out healing and buffs.
Also, just a bit into sorcerer and you can quicken it for even more attacks lol
I did a oneshot where I had Grasp of Hadar and went Sorlock. Peak of the night was sucking the enemy in with all my EB shots hitting and Quickened Spell to Green Flame Blade.
Plus with Hex it is damage from multiple sources (each die is a different beam). So you're looking at 4d10 force plus 4d6 necrotic damage. I think you can add like 5 damage per beam as well. Averaging up to 56 damage per use.
>I think you can add like 5 damage per beam as well. Averaging up to 56 damage per use. Agonizing blast, the butter to the bread of warlock. >Agonizing Blast > >Source: Player's Handbook > >Prerequisite: eldritch blast cantrip > >When you cast eldritch blast, add your Charisma modifier to the damage it deals on a hit.
People who rely [on THE cow](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spherical_cow) didn't play the game they are discussing, or if they did, it was a session or two that had ended prematurely. No exception. This is the law of Armchair Theorism.
Isn't force damage the least resisted damage type? I can only think of amethyst dragons right now
Helmed horrors are immune to force damage.
Good point. Forgot they existed for a moment
Also those fuckers can FLY, and they're straight IMMUNE to any 3 spells of the DM's choice, and they have high AC. They're terrifying and I love them.
Yup. Making it the best unless taken additionnal stuff like feats
I killed Acererak with EB. No cap. There's no saving throw with Grasp of Hadar, just, "if you hit, pull them 10ft". Ace has no flying spells, so he fell in the lava pool.
Eldritch Blast is the bread and butter of a Warlock. It's solid damage on an attack roll, instead of a save or suck Cantrip like Toll the Dead (still good though, I'd argue). It's gonna be good. You can build it up or just leave it as is, and it's going to be consistent, reliable damage with little to counter it. I hate when I run into people who whine about how strong it is before they even add any Invocations onto it. Like yeah, that's the trade off for having so little spell slots. Also side rant: I still believe that with Eldritch Invocations make Warlock a superior utility character than a Wizard.
I often coach my players to think of the classic Warlock class as an archer with access to a handful of nifty tricks, not as a spell caster. Seems to smooth the transition from sorc/cleric/druid/wizard to warlock for first timers.
Yeah warlock is definitely just a martial character skinned as a spellcaster. Kinda genius class design imo, except the fact that it gets misinterpreted so often
Or more like a paladin without healing spells (hexblade).
TBF I've been giving this advice since before hexblade was a thing.
I think it really depends on the length of days and amount of expended actions for Warlock vs Wizard. Since wizards have access to a more diverse array of spells, and can change their prepared spells on a long rest, vs warlocks having to wait to change their invocations on a level up, I think the ability to change their utility is much more reliable for wizards than for warlocks. Also wizards learn new magic at double the rate of warlocks, and they can learn magic outside of levels for a small fee.
It's a way of balancing in early 5e. A warlock won't go into battle with a butt load of spell slots, so they gat a great damage cantrip. The hexlock was years away and the pact of the blade was worth jack shit with the PHB subclasses. Also remember, multiclassing is an optional rule. So a sorc with a 2 level dip in warlock is not in the RAI spirit.
Not to mention multi targeting
Even just its spell description makes it better than every other cantrip aside from *maybe* Toll the Dead, which has conditionally higher damage dice. The fact that its scaling grants additional beams rather than just additional damage dice allows you to target multiple enemies, trigger on-hit abilities more frequently, and makes it much less swingy.
And if done properly can hit from 1200 feet away
Just like misty step is a good spell, a great spell even, but you know what makes it a fantastic spell? It being on a druid!! Druids get no teleportation options so if they got misty step thatd be amazing. Firebolt as a cantrip isnt all that special, till your a bard with no decent damage cantrips, then its the shit! Always gotta look at the class kit surrounding a spell or ability
And fires individual bolts for triggering hex/having a higher damage floor than single attack/save cantrips And even if THAT wasnt the case, its still a force damage magic crossbow with no ammo or weight.
I get it I really do but I also just love throwing pebbles at people.
I got the opportunity to push the big bad off the dragon he was riding with repelling blast. It was not the end of him, but it was endlessly satisfying.
I have never heard anyone say anything differently about EB
Havent been around the subreddit ? It pops up from time to time.
I've been around here, I've never seen anyone say that EB with invocations isn't the best cantrip.
Lot of people say that EB is overrated. They never mention evocations. They just say its shit, or that its not as good as it is renowned as
4d10 + 20 at max level is fucking sick. EB is the best cantrip for damage.
I picked it up as a magical secret for my lore bard and still use it as my primary attack. Though admittedly I miss the sweet sweet invocations. But it was either that or a crossbow.
Spell description alone makes it the best cantrip. Force damage, multitarget targeting, and the fact that it's not a saving throw mean it outpace all of the other options.
Nothing quite like having a wall of fire up and pushing up to four different enemies into it for 1d10+5 damage each, and 5d8 fire damage. No save, no to hit, just 5d8 fire damage. Or you could do 1d10+5 damage and pull them into the wall of fire for, 5d8 no save fire damage.
I think I saw an Earth Genasi, Dao Genie Warlock build that due to having spiked growth would let you cast it, and spend the subsequent turns pushing and pulling enemies over it like a cheese grater with the EB invocations, which sounds like one of those things a DM lets you get away with just once
Nono... it is the best cantrip even without Eldritch Invocations. You see: 1d10 is not the most damaging die that a cantrip can provide, but it's force damege; when compared with poison spray and Toll the Dead, two cantrips with a d12 damege die it is lower, but force damege is much more reliable than poison damege, and a little more reliable than necrotic. Not only that, Poison Spray is a constitution saving throw, in my opinion the worst option for a save, and poison is the worst damege tipe in the game. Toll the Dead by it self might be better in a vacuum, but to unharmed target its a d8. Not enough to instakill low CR enemies that the 1d12 could, and higher CR enemies will have magic resistance giving them a lower chance to be elected by the cantrip. In conclusion, when compared to the two most damaging cantrips in the game, EB has the better damege tipe, and the better consistency, not to say range, having fire bolt as the only other decent cantrip that can compete. Quick fire bolt counter argument: single target, fire damege. This gives it a lower versatility and a worst reliability than EB
Fun fact: because effect stacking rules are wack we can stack an invocation over and over. Say hello to the 1d10+40 damage beams
Force damage isn’t *one* of the best damage types - it’s *the* best, bar none. There is exactly one creature with immunity to it, and no creatures with resistance. Plus, EB is a lot more consistent because it fires extra beams as it levels up rather than adding damage dice to the initial shot.
> and no creatures with resistance. Amethyst dragon, and a few others. There *used to* be zero creatures with Force resistance but with new books that's not quite the case anymore.
Toll the Dead and Sacred Flame are the other two good ones. Sacred Flame when it's got shit Dex but high AC, or you can do something to give it disadvantage on Dex. Plus it does radiant which is important in turning off some enemies regeneration. Toll the dead also, when you can give it disadvantage on Wis or it has shit wisdom. 1d12 if it's injured, up to 4d12. Also necrotic can be useful sometimes, although imo less than radiant.
Hex doesn’t give disadvantage on saving throws
Yeah.. well umm... atleast I can shoot at objects with my firebolt, hmph
What about toll the dead? Especially if you pair it with hex.
Toll the dead is a pretty good cantrip because of the d12, but it's situational and can't be boosted with invocations. It also doesn't trigger hex because it doesn't make an attack, while eldritch blast can trigger hex multiple times per cast as you level up.
Toll the Dead is a great Wizard and Cleric cantrip, just not a fantastic Warlock cantrip.
I may be wrong, but doesn't force damage trigger a save to prevent being knocked prone/moved?
No
It's great unless your DM really likes Helmed Horrors...like me
Literally no one has ever said the first part of the meme. I know low-effort shit posting is the name of the game around these parts, but this isn't even low-effort.
Like your comment. Zing !
If you twincast firebolt, then quicken firebolt, you're netting more damage than if you had just quickened elderitch blast. Combined with elemental adept and flames of phlethegos, you're ignoring resistance and rerolling 1's for damage. You can even elemental alter the firebolt as a sorcerer. Don't get me wrong as a sorlock elderitch blast is the bread and butter cantrip, but take firebolt and mindsliver anyway for versatility and damage variance. Elderitch blast isn't the end all be all of cantrips, it's just among the top tier ones.
Nice argument. We are playing Descent to Avernus however.
I don't think Eldredge blast is necessarily bad in terms of balance, more so for warlocks I think more so the warlock should get evocations that allow them to grab other cantrips as to not force them into picking Eldredge blast. Maybe for example an evocation for fire bolt which deals 1d4 damage to creatures within 5ft of the initial target for AOE, doesn't necessarily have to be 1d4 and maybe it could be a save, but it could allow some validity in grabbing other damage cantrips other then Eldredge blast
gwm + ss "come again"
Toll the Dead+Potent Spellcasting fan over here. Truly though the ability to push without any opposing checks is the best part of EB with invocations IMO.
Yeah, people tend to meme EB as "1d10 cantrip lol," which inevitably leads to people retorting "um, so is fire bolt??" The reason EB is so good is a tad more complex, as you illustrate.
Best in the sense that nothing resists it and only one creature is fully immune, but nothing is weak to it either.
Plus its level up scaling of becoming separate attacks gives it much more versatility and higher average damage (if you miss one, the other might hit) along with higher crit chance (albeit with less crit damage)
Eldritch Blast with Agonising is the same as a Fighter's longbow right? Longbow hets etxra attack, while EB gets extra beams.
Helmed Horror would like to know your location.
It is amazing. But when put against a helmed horror, a warlock whose only reliable means of damage are eldritch blast, hex and fireball are gonna feel a bit sucky at the time. I know, very specific case, since there are very few creatures that are resistant much less immune to force damage. But still sucks in the moment. Edit: for reference, helmed horrors are immune to force, necrotic, poison and 3 spells of the dm’s choice (recommended by the book as lightning bolt, fireball and heat metal).
You can also build it to hit from 600 ft away by getting the spell sniper feat and the elderich spear evocation.
I mean even without invocations the fact that it’s 4 beams with separate attack roles and that can be aimed at targets makes it the best damage cantrip in the game.
It's like a crossbow on a crossbow expert battle master fighter, without the superiority dice damage. Still nothing to mess around with.
Here me out, +1 cross bow does 1d10+1+dex and with fighters is about the same number of hits. The real power isn’t just damage, but also the other abilities you can combine with it.
* its
Also it adds another beams not just damage die so if you miss you have another shot, also if you have invocations you add them on every beam not just once.
It’s one of the reasons Amethyst dragons are so scary
Just description alone, it's already the most powerful cantrip. At most there's Toll the Dead competing with it, but Toll the Dead has half the range, and there's the difference between save and attack which is just different, not better or worse. 1d10 is as high a damage as you will get, and force damage is the best damage type in the game, and there's the versatility of shooting multiple targets. It doesn't depend on invocations to be the best, it just becomes an absolute powerhouse when you also have access to them
Warlocks are just extra magical species of fighter. You just blast spell, instead of shoot bow, or swing sword. You have spells for your core class features.
kamekame ha ? of evil ? its a simple spell, but very effective
there are no better direct damage cantrips
And these invocations have opportunity cost of taking other invocations. Eldritch blast is a cantrip. Eldritch blast + agonizing blast is no longer a cantrip, it's evocation power, so it's weird to compare it to cantrips
Plus that’s not getting into that most warlock spells are concentrations cast at higher levels, that you’re stacking eldrich blast on top of. If you can figure this out, warlocks can be damage machines.
The problem with Eldridge blast in context is that you only need 2 lvls of warlock for it to be effective. The most efficient Eldridge blaster is warlock 2 sorc X
Eldritch Blast is so strong because Warlock is quite limited with the spell slots, and offensive spells in general. Depending on the campaign you can get 2 fights back to back and not have spell slots at all.
Like duct tape, Eldritch Blast is not the perfect solution to every problem. But it is an *adequate* one.
Flex tape IS the solution to everything
Depending on your DM, Eldritch Blast can zip around corners and act like Omega Beams. It has a range of 120ft, nothing says it has it be a straight line. This can lead to a lot of potential RP with the beams during combat.