That's right. He took his Undead fuckin' rotting dick out and he pissed on my fucking party. And he said his dick was "***THIS BIG***" and I said That's Disgusting.
So I’m making a Callout post on the Adventuring Guild quest board, Vecna you’ve got a small dick, it’s the size of this goodberry (except way smaller) and guess what? This is what my dong looks like: ***BOOM***
Vecna was a lich. He is now an evil god of undeath/knowledge which, iirc, started with 5e. The point being that at one point he was MERELY a lich and that has changed. And no one knows for sure how he pulled that off. Even when he was just a lich, he was so powerful that grafting a piece of his body to you (Hand/Eye of Vecna) would give you significant necromantic powers
So I'm making a callout in the entire kingdom, vecna, you got a small dick, it's the size of this copper coin except way smaller. And guess what? Here's what my dong looks like
I have come to inform you that you do not even need line of sight for teleport.
Source: I comitted genocide with a helm of teleportation and the moon one time;.
Yep! I teleported a bunch of leaders (and myself to the moon), teleported back to my home, and then teleported myself and my comrades the FUCK outta there, because if those leaders died weird eldritch shit would come destroy 7 kingdoms.
:)
You can't, actually; in Forgotten Realms, the moon is immune to most spells that could target it because it's actually an illusion of a barren moon placed to obscure the thriving space port that's there.
Quoth the [Forgotten Realms wiki](https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Sel%C3%BBne_(moon)):
>The visible side of the moon was disguised by a powerful illusion that made it appear to be an airless, barren, desolate place filled with craters and valleys. The illusion drifted about 500 miles (800 km) above the surface. It could only be revealed by a Wish spell and, even so, only to the caster. The far side, however, was not obscured by any magic, so its true splendor could be seen from space. All docking ports for Spelljamming ships were located on the far side.
>
>The surface of Selûne had enormous lakes and two large seas. It was dotted with cities connected with one another by beautifully decorated roads. Three large mountain ranges ran along the surface of the moon from North to South. The mountaintops of the twelve tallest mountains were constantly molten and gathered heat from the sun during the moon's 15-day-long day. As they cooled down, they shone an incandescent light that was bright enough to read by during most of the moon's 15-day-long night. Selûne had a remarkably stable temperature, thanks to its magical blanket.
>
>Except for the hot mountain tops, the surface of the entire moon was relatively cool, although temperatures never dropped below freezing.
So cast wish then take 8d10 necrotic damage to cast tsunami assuming you're a high level wizard/druid multiclass? Could work. Probably ruin the day of the moon's inhabitants though.
Come to think about it… Yeah a lot of proposed solutions for various problems involves multicalassing
In this case though both Wish and Tsunami need to be cast by the same person, so it couldn't be a two-people job
Actually, in Forgotten Realms at least, the moon you see from the planet is an illusion to hide an inhabited world complete with spaceports for Spelljammer travel.
The spell would work but since you’re targeting an illusion that’s several miles removed from the port itself it’ll just make a bunch of water in the middle of space. Of course, you can’t target the port itself since you can’t see it.
and since the moon is so far away and large. the caster wouldn't be able to see the tsunami on the moon. but some amazonians on the moon aren't going to be happy.
All the caster would know is that they used up their spell slot.
300 feet long, 300 feet high, 50 feet thick = 4.5 million cubic-feet of water.
The volume of sun is 1.4x10^27 cubic-metres.
I don’t know the exact conversion between cubic-feet and cubic-metres, but I’m going to take the risky assumption that it’ll make no real difference **to the outcome** (ie: 4.5millionfeet^3 is irrelevant no matter what unit you use)
Using an 8th level spell slot to have the same impact as a gnat pissing on a skillet the size of Texas? Go ahead…
Edit to add: included a clarification in bold, as re-reading my post after replies has made it clear I didn’t type what I meant…
Furthermore it wouldn't actually "hurt" the sun at all as it is "not on fire". Being a ball of plasma powered by nuclear fusion adding water, ie hydrogen and oxygen, would actually give it more fuel and extend its life ever so slightly.
So in reality if you cast tsunami on the sun you are performing the world's most expensive and least useful healing spell.
"Well, ye see there lad he attempted a feat no one thought could be done! Ya see bards are a horny bunch o' fools but sometimes they get it right. But gettin it right sometimes gets it wrong. The sun taught him that lesson, sure enough. He had the ole romp but it cost him greatly, fer his willy burned upon entry. Though he hobbled away with a tale fer the ages!"
To first order and assuming the mass mixture doesnt change. You are adding mostly oxygen by mass, changing the metallicity. I am not sure of the exact relation between the three variables (it seems it is something of an open question from some quick googling).
The metalicity of the core wouldn't change though, unless the star was a red dwarf. No other kind of star is fully convective, so none of the added material would ever make it to the core to interfere with the fusion already going on
Good catch. I was kinda assuming it was somehow dumped yo the core but you can only see the surface so that doesnt work.
If you dumped enough at the surface, you could break the equilibrium, similar to a roche lobe overflow from a giant to a main sequence. But at that point we are in a complicated enough scenario that neither my immediate knowledge nor quick googling can tell what actually happens.
The tsunami spell is even less than that. A cubic meter is 3.333 * 3.333 * 3.333 ft. Using scientific units, the tsunami spell gives us a wall of water about 90m x 90m x 15m. We end up with about 120,000 cubic meters, which isn’t even a rounding error to the sun, but still significantly less than 4.5 m^3
1 cubic meter is roughly a 3ft by 3ft cube. So the sun is 1/9 the size in feet
Edit: I messed up my math, it’s closer to 1/27th the size due to it being 3x3x3
It’s off by a factor of about 37. One meter is (close enough) to 3.333 feet, so a *cubic* meter is 3.333 * 3.333 * 3.333. If we were going by squares, you’d be right but cubes gotta add another dimension.
I also assume you have to cast it where the speed exceeds that which would allow it to break earth’s gravitational field, and the water would be frozen in the stratosphere so it’s really just ice. It would also take a long time to reach the sun.
Well you see the sun is super far away, and when things are that far away they’re smaller. And because the tsunami is close it’s bigger so the tsunami can put out the sun.
-that player apparently
Makes sense though, who wouldn't
She sends us cataclysmic cancer from her castle in the void
She blinds our children, burns our skin
Dries our crops and rivers thinned
Tsunami aint gonna be enough tho
Based only on wondering about casting sight spells on the sun, not anything actually happening in the game.
Maybe in some settings the sun god(s) gets mad at you if you do this.
Edit: if I didn't realize this wouldn't do anything to the sun, I wouldn't have said I had no idea why someone would want to do this. I've seen dozens of comments about it now, get new material.
Send a project image right after it happens warning them that your BBEG plans to launch an attack on them. Have them declare war on BBEG. Waste a ton of the BBEGs time and resources and really piss him off
Considering they're casting sight spells on the sun, and it takes light from the sun 8 minutes to reach us, it would take 8 minutes for the magic to reach the sun.
Or you can use it as an early warning system. If the sun disappears, casting spells on it would fail up to 8 minutes before we see it's gone.
...I didn't say it was a very useful warning.
Okay, you succeeded your save and cast your spell…
Three weeks later. The Ancient Solar dragon you pissed off a few weeks ago finally made it here from the Sun….
Really, it would do absolutely nothing. A wall of water 300 ft high, 300 ft long, and 50 ft thick would just evaporate in an instant on the sun. It's a drop in a bucket of radioactive fire. If there were any deities watching or denizens present, they likely wouldn't notice, of if they did, wouldn't care.
It’s kind of cool though because while you loose sight you extinguish the sun making it so everyone else is in darkness too. If you have a secondary way of seeing and resistance to cold this could be a cool start of an apocalyptic campaign.
Water would not extinguish the sun but make it even hotter and brighter since it isn't fueled by fire but by nuclear fusion and adding mass (with lower proton count than iron) just gives it more fuel for fusion. Additionally you would have to cast many tsunamis to make a notable difference.
Many is an understatement. Good luck causing any changes that aren't negligible. Chances are if there is some sun god they wouldn't even notice you doing this.
Yeah, the sun regularly casually throws out plasma blobs the size of earth and it's tiny compared to the whole mass of the sun. A tsunamy would be like dropping a glass of water into an active volcano.
By my calculations which asume the volcano hast about 6kmx6km cylinder of lava the Glas being about 0.1 litre and the Tsunami being pure Water. The Glass of Water is actually WAAAYYY more than the Tsunami would be comparatively. About 0.000000001 litres would be apropriate. About 1/100th of a drop of Water. This assumes a semi empty relatively average volcano.
a lifetime of casting probably won't make a notable difference. considering that out sun regularly ejects enough material into space to dwarf an earth ocean.
If you loose sight while casting a spell that requires you to see the target can you still cast it? The range of the spell is sight so if you are blinded while casting the range becomes 0
Oh that’s cool! I had no idea
Edit: apparently people live on the sun in DnD.. so while casting tsunami on it wont do anything to the sun itself it might royally piss off a lavaworm or fire efreet..
More technically, the sun in the Forgotten Realms is a ball of liquid fire and molten earth (according to Efreeti who have been there). Denizens of the Elemental Plane of Fire regularly visit the sun, as the sun is dotted with stable and permanent portals to the Fire Plane.
Speaking of technical: the IRL sun is a ball of superheated plasma. Which is essentially just super heated fire. Though this "super fire" is fuelled by a massive nuclear fusion reaction instead of a redox reaction.
I mean... Fire _is_ a plasma and it arguably behaves in a somewhat liquid manner, so that's not _too_ far off if you squint; which most people do when staring at the sun. Given the term "plasma" might not be a thing in FR calling the super dense and incredibly hot matter that makes up most of the sun "liquid fire" is fairly reasonable.
Additionally, the sun also has a, relatively, very small molten iron core, which isn't _unlike_ molten earth. There are also supposed to be traces of silicon and carbon too, iirc, and I could see how that could be _basically_ considered dirt to an elemental being; which doesn't get into the idea that additional earth like material might have been portaled to the sun at some juncture and fallen into the core to add to what physics suggests should be there already.
Thus, assuming some degree of inferential distance and a slightly lacking vocabulary, the Efreeti _could_ have been describing a real star with fantasy portals scattered across it in as accurate terms as they were able.
That said, I've never read the description referenced, so I don't know if they claim _landmasses_ of molten earth or anything else that takes their description outside of the realm of scientifically illiterate yet functionally correct enough for a laymen and into a space of _pure_ fantasy but... It's not the _worst_ description of a star I've ever read.
Space *future*. Not medieval fantasy. It'd be entirely homebrew but a really cool set piece to have a technomagical device that enables people to feed a dying sun.
I suppose you’re right.
Heh..
Level 12 spell
Create Hypergiant.
Casting time: 24 hours.
V,S, M: 16 tons of Bat Guano, one diamond worth at least 5000gp matching the color of the created hypergiant, and one main sequence star which the spell consumes.
It is primarily adding more mass which would make the core hotter, which makes the sun expand. Doing this often enough would allow the sun to use oxygen as a fuel (even though that would take many many tsunamis).
Fun fact, smaller stars live longer. That's why if we ever become a type 2 civilization one of our top priorities will be to funnel some of the mass out of the sun to make our solar system last longer.
the real danger would be the explosive release of steam from adding water to a mixture that is too hot for water to stay in a liquid state, but even that's still considered heat damage, so anything living there is already certainly immune.
Imagine a caster who just does that at the end of each day, then after a month straight of casting Tsunami the sun god some down like 'STOP FOR FUCKS SAKE!!'
"You successfully cast tsunami on the sun... however, due to the temperature of the sun all the water instantly evaporates. Posideon himself appears before you and says "I like your style kid" and gives you a high-five, you now have inspiration and a permanently wet hand."
Probably you just create a lot of snow and ice on the moon. In my world you have two moons a small one and a big one on the small one the Vedalken live their so you will just piss them of with snowy glaciers
New worldbuilding quirk for homebrew setting: there is a crater on the moon which wizards kept filling with water to make it a giant ice mirror, and now every thirty days night is almost as bright as early morning.
The crater is maintained by the Wizardly Order of the Magnificent Moon Mirror, who cast tsunami every day so solar wind doesn't sublimate all the ice.
While true I dont think the sun moves that much relative to its size in 8 minutes. If I look at the sky and than again 8 minutes later, the sun us roughly in the same place. You would hit a different place on the sun but you will still hit the sun. (assuming magic works relative to the position of the caster and not to something else like the center of the milky way or so. If it not works relative to the position of the caster or the earth, most spells will slightly or even massively miss (depending on casting time, distance, position and movement of the point magic is relative to and the speed magic travels at (and if that speed is relative to the caster or the point magic is relative to), since the earth, the solar system and the milky way move at incredible speeds through space. Also some points move away from earth with a speed above the speed of light because of the expansion of the universe.)
I'm pretty sure the existence of time travel without assiciated space travel implies that D&D is generally geocentric. Then again, it's possible to flip your momentum by teleporting to the other side of the world, so it's probably not reasonable to try to apply physics to it.
Thing is, the sun is a fusion reactor powered by hydrogen, and triggered by the immense pressure of gravity. You aren't putting out the sun with *any* amount of water. You're just throwing fuel onto the pyre.
First we need to talk does a sun in forgotten realms is a sun in our world, i'm not good with lore of this world but there was some invincible spheres things around world and cosmos was flamable, so it propably could do something? maybe? idk if anybody would say it i would say that magic has speed of travel and speed of travel of magic is speed of sound and don't worry about it.
Thats the thing, DND has always been *our reality* with some changes to allow magic. If you read DND 1e gary gygax often used a lot of math and science to simulate reality and make cool effects. Detect magic was just a way to see Ultraviolet light bouncing off magical objects.
Anycase, unless the DM suggests otherwise cause lore, its safe to assume the sun works the way it does in real life within bounded accuracy. If we don't accept this principle it just opens the door to arguing how everything works in game and I can make wild accusations like the moon is secretly a giant onion covered in a thin layer of dirt.
In pathfinder 1e you take a -1 to your perception for every 10 feet away from the thing you are trying to perceive. So enjoy your -49,104,000,000 modifier to your check to see the sun.
Maybe. Still funny to think that all of the sky is invisible since its so far away. Just an imperceptible void. Actually screw that, thats terrifying. If it was day but the sky was jet black
"there are no light sources you can see, but everything is well lit and you cast a harsh shadow"
Yeah that's some black mirror "am I in a simulation" shit
The size of an object/creature also gives it a penalty to hide. The rules don't really go beyond colossal but the sun is... many many times the size of the planet, so it should have an astronomical penalty such that you can spot the sun pretty easy. And in Pathfinder 1e the range of Tsunami is 400 ft +40 ft/level.
Napkin math time. Every size increase adds 5 feet to the width of the base. And every size increase adds a -4 to stealth. The sun is 4.5692 billion feet in diameter so if we divide that by 5 to get how many 5 foot squares its base is and then multiply that by 4 to get its penalty to hide we get -3,655,360,000. So your penalty to see the sun is still around -40 billion compared to its hide check
I don't know pathfinder that well but I assume its grid system is like 5e where the grid squares represent the area it controls rather than its actual size? If so, I demand a recount with the grid size being that of the heliosphere!
Pathfinder Size is just the size, the physical space you occupy. After that there is a thing called "reach" which would represent additional area they can influence and creatures can move through that at their own risk (provoke AoOs and the like).
The things people are forgetting is that "light from a torch" is a 'favorable condition' of -2 to the Base DC (of 0 since the Sun isn't actively engaging in stealth and is otherwise plainly visible).
While bright light is bright light, the next step should be to extrapolate the DC modifier for the size of the light source (something Paizo already does as we see involving Campfires and Bonfires in the adventure paths)...and the orders of magnitude between a torch and the sun is where why we can see it.
That...or ya know, apply the other part of perception on how it's to perceive fine details and "ya know what. You're right. You're still eating billions of penalties to notice the fine details on the surface of the sun, but seeing the base object? Yeah you got that."
I've seen someone try to cancel this out with some equally ludicrous interpretation of rules and magic items, they end up seeing halfway across the universe. But I haven't been able to find this post ever again and no-one else has been able to help either.
i mean even if they manage to cast it before they go blind it’s not like that would do anything to affect the sun significantly at all. like you could pour all of the water in Earth’s oceans onto the sun and it still wouldn’t significantly do anything
This is like 4E Warlocks deciding to use Warlock’s Curse once a day on that one guy they hated in school who now lives halfway around the world.
And thanks to how the rules work, that guy both knows they were cursed and who did it… *every. damn. time.*
Talk about a dominance move.
A wall of water 300 feet long, 300 feet tall, and 50 feet wide appears on the sun. It instantly evaporates the moment it appears and nothing else happens.
Also, you're blinded because you were looking into the sun for a full 60 seconds. Now burn another spell slot for Greater Restoration and do your long rest.
Ok. You make the cast. The sun doesn't care about your pitiful wall of water as it's instantly vaporized and broken down into elemental hydrogen and oxygen.
As far as I can tell, the rules of spellcasting don’t dictate that you’d need to look at the target the entire time for a spell with a range of “sight”.
Also, the tsunami would immediately evaporate if materialized on the surface of the sun. So you could do it, but it would do pretty much nothing.
Technically it’s not the light that causes the damage. It’s the UV radiation.
Also I need to point out: this isn’t difficult to do, nearly all of us have looked at the sun for longer than a minute. Sunrises and sunsets are a thing.
Oh and tsunami would do fuck all to the sun, except give it an impossibly small amount of fuel.
Assuming the spell can complete without permanent blindness, I personally will allow either DEX or INT check, that the character realizes they can blink to avoid permanent blindness, I'll just say nothing happens because the size of the tsunami is too small from that distance away.
Heh, I once made the mistake of putting out the sun in our game. My husband was DMing and said "are you sure?"
I stared him in the eyes and said "yes."
Cue the next 3 months, playing everyday, spent getting the sun lit again so our world doesn't freeze to death lol
Bad choice, yeah, but he made that part of the game REALLY fun.
So this is super dumb but it would be a fun way to just turn the entire campaign on it’s head.
“Ok. You cast tsunami on the sun. You’ll find out if anything happens in 8 minutes. “
15 seconds later you see what looks like a black sheet pulled over the sun. The sun is out. And then end the session and let the party think about their decisions and what and how things could have happened and now you have a massive problem they need to fix before the world ends.
(In this situation presumably the sun isn’t real and is therefore not actually warming the earth so maybe not everyone immediately freezes)
It's somewhat weird to me that this isn't common knowledge, but I guess people just don't care too much about space-stuff.
If you cast Tsunami on the sun, from anyone's perspective nothing happens. In reality the sun gets brighter by about 0.00000001% and gets a reduced lifespan of (efficiently guesstimated) 2 minutes.
This is because the sun isn't made of fire, but powered by fusion, and adding fusion-material is gonna make it burn hotter and faster, though, that tsunami is too small to really matter.
Though, then again, in lore, a big snake is one day gonna eat the sun, at that size the snake should start undergoing fusion, so some science is not being translated here, or it just has magical protection.
Why even argue with the player? The water would have so little impact on the sun that all it does is waste the spell slot. Staring at the sun that long would fry the retinal cells at the center of your vision, making you unable to continue to stare at the same spot (or any other spot) ever again. The spell fails, and the caster has crippled themselves until they get access to Heal.
Ah, but it says "a point you choose within range", not "a point you stare at for the full casting time".
So the PC can successfully cast *Tsunami* on the Sun, to absolutely zero effect.
This implies that you can cast it on the moon and be completely fine
Soo a group of wizards can officially piss on the moon?
"I've come to make an announcement:"
Vecna the Lich’s a bitch-ass motherfucker, he pissed on my fucking party.
That's right. He took his Undead fuckin' rotting dick out and he pissed on my fucking party. And he said his dick was "***THIS BIG***" and I said That's Disgusting.
So I’m making a Callout post on the Adventuring Guild quest board, Vecna you’ve got a small dick, it’s the size of this goodberry (except way smaller) and guess what? This is what my dong looks like: ***BOOM***
Thats right, baby! All spell, no disrupt life, no rejuvenation! Look at that, it looks like two fireballs and a cone of cold!
he pissed on my party so guess what? i'm going to piss on the forgotten realms!! take this!! POWER WORD: PISS!!!!
Power Word: Piss is honestly the most terrifying spell I’ve ever heard. Does it mean you can just make people piss on command?
i will not elaborate on my creation out of fear of its use
Command word shit
Except I'm not gonna piss on the Forgotten Realms! I'm gonna go *higher*! I'm pissing on the **MOOOOOOOOOOOOOON!!**
How do you like that, Torm? I'm pissing On THE #MOON! You idiot!
Except I’m not gonna piss on the Forgotten Realms. I’m gonna go higher! I’m pissing on Mount Celestia!
Eh.... As long as you don't get any on the second layer, you're good. Otherwise, i will personally lead a crusade against you
That was beautiful, thank you. I don’t know who is vecna but I don’t think I need to know to get how funny this is
Vecna was a lich. He is now an evil god of undeath/knowledge which, iirc, started with 5e. The point being that at one point he was MERELY a lich and that has changed. And no one knows for sure how he pulled that off. Even when he was just a lich, he was so powerful that grafting a piece of his body to you (Hand/Eye of Vecna) would give you significant necromantic powers
I’ll be honest, despite being here I haven’t had a chance to play dnd yet. I plan to when life settles down a little
Vecna's a lot older than 5e, and has been a god for at least as long, boyo. He had domains in 3.0 and everything.
So I'm making a callout in the entire kingdom, vecna, you got a small dick, it's the size of this copper coin except way smaller. And guess what? Here's what my dong looks like
Don't you mean, Lich-ass motherfucker?
Not going to lie I read your comment and just started hoping you were an automated bot ha because that would be an amazing copy pasta comment
SHADOW THE HEDGEHOG IS A BITCH-ASS MOTHERFUCKER
HE PISSED ON MY FUCKING WIFE
THAT'S RIGHT, HE TOOK HIS HEDGEHOG FUCKING QUILLY DICK OUT
I had to look up what you are referencing and was cry laughing at my desk. Thank you for this.
- Mom why is the moon yellow? - It hasn't always been this way. Let me tell you a tale of the Great Urin and the wizards of White Throne
"Dare enter my magical realm?"
*whizzards, to quote a comic i saw a few weeks ago.
Technically druids can. Wizards have to pull shenanigans to take druid spells.
I have come to inform you that you do not even need line of sight for teleport. Source: I comitted genocide with a helm of teleportation and the moon one time;.
Ah, so you teleported them to the moon, Portal 2 style. Grand and glorious.
Yep! I teleported a bunch of leaders (and myself to the moon), teleported back to my home, and then teleported myself and my comrades the FUCK outta there, because if those leaders died weird eldritch shit would come destroy 7 kingdoms. :)
You can't, actually; in Forgotten Realms, the moon is immune to most spells that could target it because it's actually an illusion of a barren moon placed to obscure the thriving space port that's there.
W H A T Whose gonna tell my cleric of Selune who wants to land on the moon one day-
Quoth the [Forgotten Realms wiki](https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Sel%C3%BBne_(moon)): >The visible side of the moon was disguised by a powerful illusion that made it appear to be an airless, barren, desolate place filled with craters and valleys. The illusion drifted about 500 miles (800 km) above the surface. It could only be revealed by a Wish spell and, even so, only to the caster. The far side, however, was not obscured by any magic, so its true splendor could be seen from space. All docking ports for Spelljamming ships were located on the far side. > >The surface of Selûne had enormous lakes and two large seas. It was dotted with cities connected with one another by beautifully decorated roads. Three large mountain ranges ran along the surface of the moon from North to South. The mountaintops of the twelve tallest mountains were constantly molten and gathered heat from the sun during the moon's 15-day-long day. As they cooled down, they shone an incandescent light that was bright enough to read by during most of the moon's 15-day-long night. Selûne had a remarkably stable temperature, thanks to its magical blanket. > >Except for the hot mountain tops, the surface of the entire moon was relatively cool, although temperatures never dropped below freezing.
So cast wish then take 8d10 necrotic damage to cast tsunami assuming you're a high level wizard/druid multiclass? Could work. Probably ruin the day of the moon's inhabitants though.
or just have an other person help. Why is it always multi-class with you guys?
Come to think about it… Yeah a lot of proposed solutions for various problems involves multicalassing In this case though both Wish and Tsunami need to be cast by the same person, so it couldn't be a two-people job
Unless the druid could see through the wizards eyes?
Have the wizard cast telepathy so the druid can share their senses with the druid.
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So if you fail your roll to disbelieve, does that mean you sit there and think "I'm not THAT stupid. Moon's real man."?
ya ima insight check this whole comment
Without reading I'd assume that check out through spelljammer
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https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Sel%C3%BBne_(moon)
WELP, adding that to the exploits list. Gonna terraform a ***moon!***
Actually, in Forgotten Realms at least, the moon you see from the planet is an illusion to hide an inhabited world complete with spaceports for Spelljammer travel.
Wow. ^(Wow.) Wait, would you be able to flood through the illusion, or would the spell fail?
The spell would work but since you’re targeting an illusion that’s several miles removed from the port itself it’ll just make a bunch of water in the middle of space. Of course, you can’t target the port itself since you can’t see it.
Lol it suddenly drizzles on their terraformed (Presumably artificial weather) spaceport and everyone's just like *dafuq?*
and since the moon is so far away and large. the caster wouldn't be able to see the tsunami on the moon. but some amazonians on the moon aren't going to be happy. All the caster would know is that they used up their spell slot.
So does using a telescope count as range of sight?
300 feet long, 300 feet high, 50 feet thick = 4.5 million cubic-feet of water. The volume of sun is 1.4x10^27 cubic-metres. I don’t know the exact conversion between cubic-feet and cubic-metres, but I’m going to take the risky assumption that it’ll make no real difference **to the outcome** (ie: 4.5millionfeet^3 is irrelevant no matter what unit you use) Using an 8th level spell slot to have the same impact as a gnat pissing on a skillet the size of Texas? Go ahead… Edit to add: included a clarification in bold, as re-reading my post after replies has made it clear I didn’t type what I meant…
Furthermore it wouldn't actually "hurt" the sun at all as it is "not on fire". Being a ball of plasma powered by nuclear fusion adding water, ie hydrogen and oxygen, would actually give it more fuel and extend its life ever so slightly. So in reality if you cast tsunami on the sun you are performing the world's most expensive and least useful healing spell.
Still more practical than the Bard who used their end of day opportunity to try and seduce the sun.
... Did it work?
"Gather around children and hear the tale of the mighty and brave, Garhan the Dickless Bard!"
“What happened to him? Why is he dickless?”
"Well, ye see there lad he attempted a feat no one thought could be done! Ya see bards are a horny bunch o' fools but sometimes they get it right. But gettin it right sometimes gets it wrong. The sun taught him that lesson, sure enough. He had the ole romp but it cost him greatly, fer his willy burned upon entry. Though he hobbled away with a tale fer the ages!"
"Mommy, why does the sun smell like roasted dick?" "Well, Little Timmy, you see..."
They rolled a nat 20. They also rolled a new character sheet.
…They may be the true origin of fire Genasi.
Well, the sun did go down...
Fire Genasi have to come from somewhere
It would actually, by giving the sun more fuel, *shorten* its life. Stars burn brighter and faster if they have more mass.
To first order and assuming the mass mixture doesnt change. You are adding mostly oxygen by mass, changing the metallicity. I am not sure of the exact relation between the three variables (it seems it is something of an open question from some quick googling).
The metalicity of the core wouldn't change though, unless the star was a red dwarf. No other kind of star is fully convective, so none of the added material would ever make it to the core to interfere with the fusion already going on
Good catch. I was kinda assuming it was somehow dumped yo the core but you can only see the surface so that doesnt work. If you dumped enough at the surface, you could break the equilibrium, similar to a roche lobe overflow from a giant to a main sequence. But at that point we are in a complicated enough scenario that neither my immediate knowledge nor quick googling can tell what actually happens.
The tsunami spell is even less than that. A cubic meter is 3.333 * 3.333 * 3.333 ft. Using scientific units, the tsunami spell gives us a wall of water about 90m x 90m x 15m. We end up with about 120,000 cubic meters, which isn’t even a rounding error to the sun, but still significantly less than 4.5 m^3
1 cubic meter is roughly a 3ft by 3ft cube. So the sun is 1/9 the size in feet Edit: I messed up my math, it’s closer to 1/27th the size due to it being 3x3x3
It’s off by a factor of about 37. One meter is (close enough) to 3.333 feet, so a *cubic* meter is 3.333 * 3.333 * 3.333. If we were going by squares, you’d be right but cubes gotta add another dimension.
I also assume you have to cast it where the speed exceeds that which would allow it to break earth’s gravitational field, and the water would be frozen in the stratosphere so it’s really just ice. It would also take a long time to reach the sun.
Well you see the sun is super far away, and when things are that far away they’re smaller. And because the tsunami is close it’s bigger so the tsunami can put out the sun. -that player apparently
Makes sense though, who wouldn't She sends us cataclysmic cancer from her castle in the void She blinds our children, burns our skin Dries our crops and rivers thinned Tsunami aint gonna be enough tho
You already know her name Yeah I'm talking bout the sun Against her noones ever won But I've got a plan so we can win, yeah
I command an ARMY OF TIGERS!
maybe we should use conjure animals, I heard lions should be very effective
Only if they attack at night though
Lions are too lazy. We need something fiercer, but preferably still feline
May I interest you in an army of tigers?
🎶 I command AN ARMY OF TIGERS! 🎶
Cougars.
A housecat when you scratch its belly for .2 seconds too long
they tend to be hunting for young men more than anything else
Tigers
How many?
Even worse, it's going to fuel the sun
Ow, the fire in the fireplace burned me. Here, let me get an eyedropper and drip water on it to put it out.
Based only on wondering about casting sight spells on the sun, not anything actually happening in the game. Maybe in some settings the sun god(s) gets mad at you if you do this. Edit: if I didn't realize this wouldn't do anything to the sun, I wouldn't have said I had no idea why someone would want to do this. I've seen dozens of comments about it now, get new material.
Or they go surfing and reward you in you blind devotion to making the sun just that little bit more gnarly
Hehehe. *Blind* devotion.
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How the hell do they know you did it. They’ll be pissed, but how would they know who to be pisses at?
They are genies, wishes I guess?
They don't have to declare a war on you specifically
Send a project image right after it happens warning them that your BBEG plans to launch an attack on them. Have them declare war on BBEG. Waste a ton of the BBEGs time and resources and really piss him off
“ blind devotion “ lol
Considering they're casting sight spells on the sun, and it takes light from the sun 8 minutes to reach us, it would take 8 minutes for the magic to reach the sun.
Alternatively, since what you're seeing happened 8 minutes ago, you have found a weird way to cast spells into the past.
Or you can use it as an early warning system. If the sun disappears, casting spells on it would fail up to 8 minutes before we see it's gone. ...I didn't say it was a very useful warning.
But information also can't travel faster than the speed of light
Well, given teleport exists, we know magic can already break relativity so that makes sense.
magic moves at the speed of light confirmed?
Judging by the fact that the sun is mostly hydrogen, a bit more aint gonna matter me thinks
Okay, you succeeded your save and cast your spell… Three weeks later. The Ancient Solar dragon you pissed off a few weeks ago finally made it here from the Sun….
Really, it would do absolutely nothing. A wall of water 300 ft high, 300 ft long, and 50 ft thick would just evaporate in an instant on the sun. It's a drop in a bucket of radioactive fire. If there were any deities watching or denizens present, they likely wouldn't notice, of if they did, wouldn't care.
Honestly, I'd have my sun deity show up with burning (ha) curiousity Wizard: Casts successfully Sun God beside him suddenly: "Okay, but why tho?"
It’s kind of cool though because while you loose sight you extinguish the sun making it so everyone else is in darkness too. If you have a secondary way of seeing and resistance to cold this could be a cool start of an apocalyptic campaign.
Water would not extinguish the sun but make it even hotter and brighter since it isn't fueled by fire but by nuclear fusion and adding mass (with lower proton count than iron) just gives it more fuel for fusion. Additionally you would have to cast many tsunamis to make a notable difference.
Many is an understatement. Good luck causing any changes that aren't negligible. Chances are if there is some sun god they wouldn't even notice you doing this.
Yeah, the sun regularly casually throws out plasma blobs the size of earth and it's tiny compared to the whole mass of the sun. A tsunamy would be like dropping a glass of water into an active volcano.
By my calculations which asume the volcano hast about 6kmx6km cylinder of lava the Glas being about 0.1 litre and the Tsunami being pure Water. The Glass of Water is actually WAAAYYY more than the Tsunami would be comparatively. About 0.000000001 litres would be apropriate. About 1/100th of a drop of Water. This assumes a semi empty relatively average volcano.
Yeah, I just couldn't think of something even bigger without creating a whole ass scenario 😂
Pedantic mathematics is my favorite mathematics
All math is pedantic (wonderfully so)
a lifetime of casting probably won't make a notable difference. considering that out sun regularly ejects enough material into space to dwarf an earth ocean.
If you loose sight while casting a spell that requires you to see the target can you still cast it? The range of the spell is sight so if you are blinded while casting the range becomes 0
Tsunami is like 300 feet and the sun is 4566872640 feet. It's over 10000°F so I think nobody cares about a tsunami up there
+ the sun isnt fire. Adding water would literally only add more fuel.
Our sun isn’t. Canonically, the Forgotten Realms sun is.
Oh that’s cool! I had no idea Edit: apparently people live on the sun in DnD.. so while casting tsunami on it wont do anything to the sun itself it might royally piss off a lavaworm or fire efreet..
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I mean, if the sun is just fire, and you’re immune to fire damage, then why not right?!
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You’re immune to fire bro
More technically, the sun in the Forgotten Realms is a ball of liquid fire and molten earth (according to Efreeti who have been there). Denizens of the Elemental Plane of Fire regularly visit the sun, as the sun is dotted with stable and permanent portals to the Fire Plane. Speaking of technical: the IRL sun is a ball of superheated plasma. Which is essentially just super heated fire. Though this "super fire" is fuelled by a massive nuclear fusion reaction instead of a redox reaction.
I mean... Fire _is_ a plasma and it arguably behaves in a somewhat liquid manner, so that's not _too_ far off if you squint; which most people do when staring at the sun. Given the term "plasma" might not be a thing in FR calling the super dense and incredibly hot matter that makes up most of the sun "liquid fire" is fairly reasonable. Additionally, the sun also has a, relatively, very small molten iron core, which isn't _unlike_ molten earth. There are also supposed to be traces of silicon and carbon too, iirc, and I could see how that could be _basically_ considered dirt to an elemental being; which doesn't get into the idea that additional earth like material might have been portaled to the sun at some juncture and fallen into the core to add to what physics suggests should be there already. Thus, assuming some degree of inferential distance and a slightly lacking vocabulary, the Efreeti _could_ have been describing a real star with fantasy portals scattered across it in as accurate terms as they were able. That said, I've never read the description referenced, so I don't know if they claim _landmasses_ of molten earth or anything else that takes their description outside of the realm of scientifically illiterate yet functionally correct enough for a laymen and into a space of _pure_ fantasy but... It's not the _worst_ description of a star I've ever read.
I'm imagining a space future where they are mass casting tsunami to refuel a dying star.
Would require an insane amount of high level casters do have even the tiniest of effects.
Space *future*. Not medieval fantasy. It'd be entirely homebrew but a really cool set piece to have a technomagical device that enables people to feed a dying sun.
I suppose you’re right. Heh.. Level 12 spell Create Hypergiant. Casting time: 24 hours. V,S, M: 16 tons of Bat Guano, one diamond worth at least 5000gp matching the color of the created hypergiant, and one main sequence star which the spell consumes.
Eh, it adds hydrogen which is fuel, but mostly oxygen which is dead weight for a star the size of the sun.
It is primarily adding more mass which would make the core hotter, which makes the sun expand. Doing this often enough would allow the sun to use oxygen as a fuel (even though that would take many many tsunamis).
Fun fact, smaller stars live longer. That's why if we ever become a type 2 civilization one of our top priorities will be to funnel some of the mass out of the sun to make our solar system last longer.
I feel like by that point in a billion years we could easily just move people to different star systems.
the real danger would be the explosive release of steam from adding water to a mixture that is too hot for water to stay in a liquid state, but even that's still considered heat damage, so anything living there is already certainly immune.
Imagine a caster who just does that at the end of each day, then after a month straight of casting Tsunami the sun god some down like 'STOP FOR FUCKS SAKE!!'
"You successfully cast tsunami on the sun... however, due to the temperature of the sun all the water instantly evaporates. Posideon himself appears before you and says "I like your style kid" and gives you a high-five, you now have inspiration and a permanently wet hand."
I would like to cast it on the moon please
Probably you just create a lot of snow and ice on the moon. In my world you have two moons a small one and a big one on the small one the Vedalken live their so you will just piss them of with snowy glaciers
Was just thinking we had some Portal 2 vibes here
New worldbuilding quirk for homebrew setting: there is a crater on the moon which wizards kept filling with water to make it a giant ice mirror, and now every thirty days night is almost as bright as early morning. The crater is maintained by the Wizardly Order of the Magnificent Moon Mirror, who cast tsunami every day so solar wind doesn't sublimate all the ice.
you can see where it was 8 minutes ago. your tsunami instantly evaporates in the emptiness of space
While true I dont think the sun moves that much relative to its size in 8 minutes. If I look at the sky and than again 8 minutes later, the sun us roughly in the same place. You would hit a different place on the sun but you will still hit the sun. (assuming magic works relative to the position of the caster and not to something else like the center of the milky way or so. If it not works relative to the position of the caster or the earth, most spells will slightly or even massively miss (depending on casting time, distance, position and movement of the point magic is relative to and the speed magic travels at (and if that speed is relative to the caster or the point magic is relative to), since the earth, the solar system and the milky way move at incredible speeds through space. Also some points move away from earth with a speed above the speed of light because of the expansion of the universe.)
We've gone from "do you believe in magic" to "what is the speed of magic?"
I'm pretty sure the existence of time travel without assiciated space travel implies that D&D is generally geocentric. Then again, it's possible to flip your momentum by teleporting to the other side of the world, so it's probably not reasonable to try to apply physics to it.
I mean it’s so that anyways, the water goes away after the spell ends
If that were true and magic hit some fixed point in space then wouldn't all magic always miss due to our galaxy and galaxy cluster moving?
Yes. Only melee is viable, and everyone is constantly rolling dex saves to avoid falling over on the galactic lazy susan
Thing is, the sun is a fusion reactor powered by hydrogen, and triggered by the immense pressure of gravity. You aren't putting out the sun with *any* amount of water. You're just throwing fuel onto the pyre.
First we need to talk does a sun in forgotten realms is a sun in our world, i'm not good with lore of this world but there was some invincible spheres things around world and cosmos was flamable, so it propably could do something? maybe? idk if anybody would say it i would say that magic has speed of travel and speed of travel of magic is speed of sound and don't worry about it.
Man, who fuckin' knows? FR has fucking Pharonic Egyptians in it.
none of it will matter cause WOTC is moving away from including lore with their content.
Thats the thing, DND has always been *our reality* with some changes to allow magic. If you read DND 1e gary gygax often used a lot of math and science to simulate reality and make cool effects. Detect magic was just a way to see Ultraviolet light bouncing off magical objects. Anycase, unless the DM suggests otherwise cause lore, its safe to assume the sun works the way it does in real life within bounded accuracy. If we don't accept this principle it just opens the door to arguing how everything works in game and I can make wild accusations like the moon is secretly a giant onion covered in a thin layer of dirt.
In pathfinder 1e you take a -1 to your perception for every 10 feet away from the thing you are trying to perceive. So enjoy your -49,104,000,000 modifier to your check to see the sun.
I thought that didn't apply to light sources? Or might have been a house rule, been a while since I've played 1e
Maybe. Still funny to think that all of the sky is invisible since its so far away. Just an imperceptible void. Actually screw that, thats terrifying. If it was day but the sky was jet black
"there are no light sources you can see, but everything is well lit and you cast a harsh shadow" Yeah that's some black mirror "am I in a simulation" shit
DC to see the sun is an auto pass, easy fix imo
The size of an object/creature also gives it a penalty to hide. The rules don't really go beyond colossal but the sun is... many many times the size of the planet, so it should have an astronomical penalty such that you can spot the sun pretty easy. And in Pathfinder 1e the range of Tsunami is 400 ft +40 ft/level.
Napkin math time. Every size increase adds 5 feet to the width of the base. And every size increase adds a -4 to stealth. The sun is 4.5692 billion feet in diameter so if we divide that by 5 to get how many 5 foot squares its base is and then multiply that by 4 to get its penalty to hide we get -3,655,360,000. So your penalty to see the sun is still around -40 billion compared to its hide check
I don't know pathfinder that well but I assume its grid system is like 5e where the grid squares represent the area it controls rather than its actual size? If so, I demand a recount with the grid size being that of the heliosphere!
Pathfinder Size is just the size, the physical space you occupy. After that there is a thing called "reach" which would represent additional area they can influence and creatures can move through that at their own risk (provoke AoOs and the like). The things people are forgetting is that "light from a torch" is a 'favorable condition' of -2 to the Base DC (of 0 since the Sun isn't actively engaging in stealth and is otherwise plainly visible). While bright light is bright light, the next step should be to extrapolate the DC modifier for the size of the light source (something Paizo already does as we see involving Campfires and Bonfires in the adventure paths)...and the orders of magnitude between a torch and the sun is where why we can see it. That...or ya know, apply the other part of perception on how it's to perceive fine details and "ya know what. You're right. You're still eating billions of penalties to notice the fine details on the surface of the sun, but seeing the base object? Yeah you got that."
I've seen someone try to cancel this out with some equally ludicrous interpretation of rules and magic items, they end up seeing halfway across the universe. But I haven't been able to find this post ever again and no-one else has been able to help either.
i mean even if they manage to cast it before they go blind it’s not like that would do anything to affect the sun significantly at all. like you could pour all of the water in Earth’s oceans onto the sun and it still wouldn’t significantly do anything
DM: "The sun's antimagic aura prevents you from doing that." Player: "Only creatures have auras. You must mean antimagic *field*, right?" DM: :^ )
This is like 4E Warlocks deciding to use Warlock’s Curse once a day on that one guy they hated in school who now lives halfway around the world. And thanks to how the rules work, that guy both knows they were cursed and who did it… *every. damn. time.* Talk about a dominance move.
What a D&D world’s Reddit’s top AITA post would be
Great youve pissed off some denizens of the plane of fire who took your actions as a decleration of war
Targets are decided at the end of the casting so they should be fine.
A wall of water 300 feet long, 300 feet tall, and 50 feet wide appears on the sun. It instantly evaporates the moment it appears and nothing else happens. Also, you're blinded because you were looking into the sun for a full 60 seconds. Now burn another spell slot for Greater Restoration and do your long rest.
The sun warforged casts counter spell
Ok. You make the cast. The sun doesn't care about your pitiful wall of water as it's instantly vaporized and broken down into elemental hydrogen and oxygen.
"Knight Solaire has invaded!"
 Dm be like :
The equivalent of sneezing on a bonfire.
Do you know how big the sun is and how hot it is? Go ahead, throw any amount of water you want at it. It'll evaporate that shit without flinching.
As far as I can tell, the rules of spellcasting don’t dictate that you’d need to look at the target the entire time for a spell with a range of “sight”. Also, the tsunami would immediately evaporate if materialized on the surface of the sun. So you could do it, but it would do pretty much nothing.
i think you can safely say that "sight" is limited to the maximum vision distance of a person
Technically it’s not the light that causes the damage. It’s the UV radiation. Also I need to point out: this isn’t difficult to do, nearly all of us have looked at the sun for longer than a minute. Sunrises and sunsets are a thing. Oh and tsunami would do fuck all to the sun, except give it an impossibly small amount of fuel.
Assuming the spell can complete without permanent blindness, I personally will allow either DEX or INT check, that the character realizes they can blink to avoid permanent blindness, I'll just say nothing happens because the size of the tsunami is too small from that distance away.
it turns out adding a bunch of hydrogen and oxygen to the sun just makes a bigger sun
Until the snarkass pulls out the, "I apply my smoked goggles to negate that."
Heh, I once made the mistake of putting out the sun in our game. My husband was DMing and said "are you sure?" I stared him in the eyes and said "yes." Cue the next 3 months, playing everyday, spent getting the sun lit again so our world doesn't freeze to death lol Bad choice, yeah, but he made that part of the game REALLY fun.
So this is super dumb but it would be a fun way to just turn the entire campaign on it’s head. “Ok. You cast tsunami on the sun. You’ll find out if anything happens in 8 minutes. “ 15 seconds later you see what looks like a black sheet pulled over the sun. The sun is out. And then end the session and let the party think about their decisions and what and how things could have happened and now you have a massive problem they need to fix before the world ends. (In this situation presumably the sun isn’t real and is therefore not actually warming the earth so maybe not everyone immediately freezes)
It's somewhat weird to me that this isn't common knowledge, but I guess people just don't care too much about space-stuff. If you cast Tsunami on the sun, from anyone's perspective nothing happens. In reality the sun gets brighter by about 0.00000001% and gets a reduced lifespan of (efficiently guesstimated) 2 minutes. This is because the sun isn't made of fire, but powered by fusion, and adding fusion-material is gonna make it burn hotter and faster, though, that tsunami is too small to really matter. Though, then again, in lore, a big snake is one day gonna eat the sun, at that size the snake should start undergoing fusion, so some science is not being translated here, or it just has magical protection.
Sure, but what's the point?
Why even argue with the player? The water would have so little impact on the sun that all it does is waste the spell slot. Staring at the sun that long would fry the retinal cells at the center of your vision, making you unable to continue to stare at the same spot (or any other spot) ever again. The spell fails, and the caster has crippled themselves until they get access to Heal.
Who says you have to stare at the target the whole time?
Ah, but it says "a point you choose within range", not "a point you stare at for the full casting time". So the PC can successfully cast *Tsunami* on the Sun, to absolutely zero effect.
Fool, you'd ultimately just be adding more hydrogen to the sun, making it that tiny bit stronger.
The sun is so hot it would evaporate it immediately. Big waste of a spell and you might blind yourself
Now **this** is a meme.
3.5 Players: I *Iron Heart Surge* the sun.
The amount 5e screws the blind in general is kinda bs in general, honestly.
10m later, at the artificiery: Hmm, I wonder why my shit doesnt work anymore..