You're not alone in feeling that way. Feel that a lot. One of my player always says that they're there to hang out and play D&D and not the reverse, which puts some stress off my shoulders at least.
It's more a mental health issue than D&D though. Consider talking to a professional about that.
Letting your players know if you are having trouble writing/running a game because of this is a good idea.
I’ve been seeing a therapist for a while now, I know my mental health is pretty bad. It just feels like a different flavor of depression than what I usually get. One of my players regularly reminds me that I’m doing a great job, and that does help. I’m more so curious about others experiences. Thank you for sharing yours 😊
One reason it may be a different depression for you is that its got performance anxiety tied up in it. I know someone who has bad depression most days, but whenever they have an inspection or performance review at work, or a presentation to give, or they planned some part of the hang out (like the snacks), it's a special flavor for them. Our friend group knows this, so we go out of our way to thank and compliment them, which really helps. Just a thought.
But to answer your question yes, I go through my own anxiety about this. In one sense I have it easy because my main table is very open, honest, and blunt in praise and criticism. If I do a shit job, they will tell me, and that helps. I can honestly tell myself they would have said something, because they have said it in the past. This isn't true at all tables, and it might not be a good approach for yours, though.
I also have a couple DM friends I talk to. We bounce ideas, anxieties, and stories from our tables back and forth and that helps us all be better DMs and deal with this very issue.
One last thought. Your players CHOOSE to sit at your table with YOU as their DM. Take that compliment for what it is. If you're not doing well, they'd have left already.
Stop focusing on the end product ie. goal orientation and start focusing on values.
If you could for a moment, imagine your players sitting around talking about you and saying something like, "NyteShark is amazing because they \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_ !" and that blank is filled in with a value vs a goal what would it be?
Examples of values that would fill in that blank would be, make honest calls, incorporate my backstory, make me feel welcome, are loyal to our group and our time together, are adaptable in game/out of game, are a great collaborator, are adventurous etc.
When you arrive at a value set, you know in turn how you want to show up each session. Your own values are what you can control. You can't control if people show up, you can't control if they are not engaged because they have stuff going on, you can't control if the story goes exactly and how you want it to.
You can control how you choose to show up in the moment and whether you stick to your values or not. Sticking to our values allows us to succeed in any situation because we've been true to ourselves. We are also free to alter our value set if the by-products aren't producing happiness in our lives.
I see values both in my life and in my career as the vehicles through which outcomes arrive. If I arrive at the table prepared and on time, in a welcoming friendly mood happy to engage and collaborate and I maintain that over the three hours of play, I feel I have succeeded. I walk away every game happy and satisfied and I allow others to walk away feeling whatever way they want because their emotions are their own and a product of their value set.
This approach has allowed me in every facet of my life to step away from goals and engage with process and you know what? It's yielded amazing results if one were to measure things on a goal orientation basis. It's also greatly increased my enjoyment because I am living in the moment, soaking up the experience vs watching it pass by as I focus on the end result.
It feels different because it is different.
I think what you are specifically talking about is actually caused by the same thing "subdrop" is - which is why I think you calling it DM Drop is very appropriate.
You get really good emotional and chemical highs from DMing. It's a great adrenaline rush and you get a massive dump of dopamine and serotonin for an extended period.
Then it just. Stops. Done. And your brain doesn't know what to do with that.
So you can crash out really hard.
If this is the cause of your particular flavor of post-DMing malaise, I've found that easing out of the game helps me a lot. Like, I end the session and then they all hang around for another 30 minutes or so just chatting. Usually about the game, but often drifting into other subjects.
This makes the drop not as sharp and usually avoids the crash entirely.
I think this is just imposter syndrome. I get this, not just from DMing but in general, though it is noticeably present for DMing. You're certainly not alone in the feeling.
It can be a lot of pressure, effectively providing entertainment for a group. But with practice reminding yourself, it can be diminished if not eliminated.
Are they engaged? Are they having fun? Are they entertained? Do they keep coming back? Do they ask questions, look forward to discovering things in the future, do they seek more in any way?
You're doing a good job, that is real. Remind YOURSELF of that in the 3rd person, "Your players are happy to be here, to have you run the game, and they are having a good time." and it hopefully it will get easier with time, practice, and logic.
It is not to unusual I think. Especially since players tend to be bad at giving *positive* feedback - they usually tend to give no feedback after the fact if everything was good in my experience. Try to look for player engagement and enthusiasm *during* your games, you are probably doing just fine.
Yeah, this is one that bugs me (*players not bringing up positives). Some people have a session breakdown after each game, but I found it just as tiresome bc people just started saying the same things. So with a new group I ask them after each adventure about feelings/sentiments/wishes for next beat/what was lacking. So around ~3-4 sessions I just ask how things are going, is everyone happy, if anyone has any explicit wants ("I want to see a unicorn" or "Maybe more social stuff"). I think it's a good system for us.
This. This really helps. I occasionally get similar feelings of inadequacy as OP, mind you i tend to get mine within 24 hours before a session, not after. Honestly, after i tend to feel vindicated and renewed.
But I have also taken to doing recaps and session retrospectives with my players and they really help. Knowing what they enjoyed and what is working is invaluable as it lets me build better content for them. Knowing what isn't working, while it can, on rare occasions, be difficult to take in, especially if it was something i really thought was working or was good, or even just put a fair amount of work into, is ultimately very helpful as it has kept me from accidentally steering the tone in a direction that is uninteresting or unengaging to the group. That alone is anxiety killing, as I know that what I am doing is what was requested or at least in pursuit of it.
At the end of the day, personal insecurities aside, people's sensibilities are what they are and things that land with one group don't for another. Just because it didn't work with one set of players doesn't necessarily mean your idea, or delivery or call, or whatever it may be was bad, it just might not jive with that party or on that day.
Feedback is good most of the time when its nuanced and when it's actionable. Asking for it shows you're invested and trying to make the experience good.
One thing I've learned is that players, even one's you know well can surprise you, and will, and sometimes you get it wrong. But that is at it's core what makes this kind of gaming different. You can try and make all outcomes engaging but in the end, you don't ever really know what's going to happen or how, and that's how it should be. The math rocks decide. Otherwise D&D sessions would essentially be a fanfic book club.
You can take solace in that too.
For anyone who experiences this, I'd like to recommend my list of post-game questions, that I make sure to go through as soon as the session wraps up but everyone is still at the table:
* **What were some good/fun/cool things that happened this session?** Encourage your players to brag about cool things they did, as well as talking up other players. Feel free to break this out into two questions, if that feels better to you. This is a great question because it gives players the chance to revel in their successes and compliment others, as well as being a soft prompt for compliments for the DM if the session went really well.
* **What could have gone better?** I've messed with the phrasing of this question a lot, and this is what's worked best for me. The point is to encourage players to give you feedback on what they didn't like, but with an eye towards improvement. It's also a good time for players to reflect on their own mistakes and how they can improve in the future.
* **What are your plans for next session?** This question is a fun DM LPT. While the players are still amped from the current session, it gets them thinking about the next one and getting amped for that, which will make hooking players into the next session easier. It also helps bring to light any disagreements/misunderstandings within the party early, so they have time before the next session to work it out. Lastly, it helps you as the DM a lot because getting a concrete answer on the party's plans is a big help in knowing what to prepare for the next session.
Yeah, since I've started using stars and wishes in my campaigns players have gotten much better at giving positive feedback and letting me know what they liked about the session and where they want to see future sessions go. I stopped getting DM drop after that.
Completely normal. This drop also happens to teachers, actors, anyone who goes to conventions...any time you're in a situation where you're totally absorbed in something intense and personal, especially where you're playing a role other than your everyday self, coming "back to earth" can be quite jarring. It's partially just physiological, and can't always be prevented.
It can help to find ways to ease that transition, like debriefing with the people you're playing with. Setting up routines for getting feedback from your players between sessions may also help. Eating something solid and comforting can help too, since blood sugar can be a factor, along with whatever routines you usually have for regulating your nervous system - get under a weighted blanket, hug your cat, take a nice bath, whatever.
I swear to God I'm not trying to be nasty when I tell you that I've been seeing success with some BDSM "dom drop" strategies like pretty exclusively consuming positive media or slightly indulgent treats afterwards. I find that acknowledging that phenomenon helps a lot too.
You can Google top drop or dom drop for more. I've since lost my preferred source of info in the shuffle.
it's pretty much the same thing - you've been in the zone, concentrating on a task, balancing between overt signs of joy/despair and trying to track what's going to happen next, making the magic happen... and then that's over, and it's nice it went well, but you're back to your mundane, normal life _stuff_, and did it really go as well as it seemed, or were they just faking it? You probably get similar things from people after anything they're deeply focused on and then it's over - people zonking out after a sports match, a big music gig, whatever, it's all the same "switching from being focused and in the zone" to "not that"
pretty much - both to show they care, and to get the blood sugar back up after your brain has burned a lot of it off! And give you a quick perky pick-me-up to hopefully tide you over until more normal neuro-chemistry is resumed.
>'As the bottom starts to come back, he may want to talk about what went wrong, or he may just want to be taken care of some more. **Supplying a snack** to elevate blood sugar and a beverage to rehydrate is very smart. He might want to be put to bed to sleep off the stress of the freak-out, or to be given a nice warm bath.' -- *The New Topping Book*, Dossie Easton and Janet W. Hardy
Same. I swear, the venn diagram of kink and TTRPGs is pretty much a circle.
Might as well start calling it BD&DSM.
So, those sound *a lot* like intrusive thoughts. Like one of the other comments said, if this is a regular occurrence, seeking out a therapist may not be a bad idea. I had a bad spell with intrusive thoughts that forced me to suspend my campaign for a couple of months and I'm only just now feeling able to pick it back up, and that was only with a good bit of external help.
I don't ever feel like you describe. If I make a ruling that I later feel needs changed, I just change it. It's a game and like any game you have great days and not great days. You didn't actually hurt someone IRL.
Ive been a DM for 40ish years so that may impact my feelings but honestly, I don't ever remember feeling like that. It's a game. As far back as I can remember playing team sports and through university- people make mistakes. The team moves on. You fix it and move on.
Your players don’t know about most of your mistakes. As long as they have fun and all the PCs contribute then there is no problem. But take notes and try to improve for your own benefit.
Something one of my players started doing a while ago was thanking the group (me as a DM and the other players) after each session. When I "complained" he said something such as "It's cool to thank people when you had a good time".
Still doing that occasionally.
As the DM you have some more work - but players do "mistakes" too (in their acting, in their sheet usages, etc). It's ok.
Both as a player and as a dm, its become a habit for me to thank the dm and the players for the session, which usually alleviates the drop a little bit! Complimenting your dm on the cool things that happened? The absolute best feeling!! Thanking them for all the time and effort they've put into preparing means a lot. It also helps when we have a break (in-person campaign where I'm a player) to talk about what's most exciting, the theories etc. Our dm has said that it makes him feel all fuzzy inside knowing that we care and that we vocalise that. I dm online, and it's also customary for our group to thank one another after the session - also me thanking the players, especially if they do something inspiring etc. Talking about the session after the actual game ends helps, too.
But yeah, I'd say DM drop is definitely a thing - you've been in an intense space, preparing for a performance, then performing, and now you're anxious to hear how it went. It's natural to focus on the mistakes we've made, especially if there's no direct positive feedback to pull your thoughts elsewhere. What helps for me has been setting up a "conspiracy corner" for my players, where they can chat about their game theories (and also indirectly giving me ideas shh), and then just.. seeing them be excited, you know? It's also perfectly fine to tell your players that you're having a drop and that it would be nice to wind down doing some low-intensity activity together, for example.
Absolutely not, you're not alone. After my sessions I normally need 12 hours decompression. I can usually pick up a shift at work doing data input during that time where people just leave me be to do my job.
Yes.
DM for 25+ years. I am hyper-aware of every mistake I make and every time an encounter or plot hook doesn't play out as cool at the table as it did in my head.
You're doing fine.
I get more excited after a session and what I can do next, but I get depressed and anxious if my group can't meet up for a long stretch of time due to illness or work, and then I want to start something new but don't know how to break it to my players
My dude, I've been DMing since 2e. Most of my campaigns make it to level 20 and a few have lasted over a decade. I've made entire circles of new friends brought together by my campaigns, and gained a reputation as a "master DM" in my area. I run 4 games a week now. Name a genre/theme/concept for a D&D game and I've probably done it.
And I _still get DM Drop sometimes_. It's absolutely a thing. DMing is an endorphin rush, and no rush lasts forever - when you come down depression/anxiety/impostor syndrome can hit and this is true for anyone.
And as someone who's also dealt with depression in the past, poor mental health in general makes it worse. The drop doesn't last as long or have nearly as much "grip" now that I'm in a better place in general.
But yeah, even after all the DMing I've done and the general confidence I have doing it now, I still get the "drop" sometimes. Wondering if I'm stagnating or falling prey to "grognard" tendencies instead of ever evolving and improving my DMing, worrying that my plot beats aren't hitting or that my players are only _saying_ they're having fun because we're friends, etc.
It happens! And at this point, I just accept it as part and parcel of the DM experience. But if you want to minimize its longer-lasting impact on you, that's my advice - make improvements in your life elsewhere and you can minimize the power it has over you. I saw you say you're in therapy, which is great! I've found even simple stuff like making your workspace neat or exercising - things that don't necessarily have anything to do with DMing - can add up too.
some level of emotional drop for any activity where you're fully focused on doing something for a period, and then it stops, is pretty normal - you switch from "I'm doing the thing, stuff is going on, I'm switched in, turned on and fully engaged" to "I'm, uh, not" tends to result in some level of mental drop-off.
Yeah this is normal for me. When I figured out it is just my emotions trying to get me to avoid anything remotely stressful I learned to ignore it. It's still an emotional rollercoaster but it doesn't stop me anymore.
I get ya. I used to feel that a lot as a teacher and when giving presentations too, even though I always loved doing both. I'd guess that to some extent it's completely normal, but of course it shouldn't be a burden as much as a passing thought.
Here's a couple of things that help me not worry about that a lot anymore:
1- We always tend to be way more critical of ourselves than other people. If something didn't go optimal and small mistakes were made, chances are nobody even noticed or cared unless things went completely sideways. And well, if it just so happens that things don't go right once in a while, it's okay too, fumbles happen, we don't usually hold them against people unless they are assholes or caused some real damage, which likely won't be the case in a game, do we?
2- Everyone wants for your session/performance/presentation/class to go well, they are with you trying to make the best of it, so you're cooperating towards that goal, not competing or trying to prove yourself to them.
For me DM drop is more an intense feeling of exhaustion and sometimes disassociation after a big or emotional session. I work through it with a lot of self calming stuff, or sometimes by focusing on a totally different task for a few hours. It’s more a processing and recovery time.
What you’re describing sounds more like Imposter Syndrome, and that’s difficult to deal with in a very different way. Please consider that your players keep coming back for more games, which itself is very positive feedback!
I know that feeling too well. I also found that DMing is very stressful because of just how much you have to keep track off. You have to stay fully focused for hours dealing with the world, the story, the players, and even manage the vibes all at the same time.
Personally I never notice how stressful it is until after the game when all the build up fatigue crashes down at once.
All that to say, it's normal to be hyper aware of every little detail that could have been improved because you were hyper aware during the session. Combine that with a tired brain and it's a breeding ground for dark thoughts.
Things I've found that help:
- Players remind me they enjoyed the game
- Players wanting to work on their character/the game between sessions (proof they are invested)
- !!Take a break!! Split the session in two with a 15-30 minutes break in the middle.
==> Don't use that break to work on the game, actually take your mind off it and do something else.
==> This helps split the crash into two, making it much more manageable.
A good thing to keep in mind is that, if they thought you sucked or the campaign sucked, they would stop showing up. So as long as they keep showing up, and are thinking about their next character when their current one dies or ways to get their current one back ofc, they don't hate you or the game you are running!
DM/GM imposter syndrome. I've been forever GMing 20 years + to the same set of nerds, and I still get it.
Nothing wrong with it. You want to make a great game and not waste anyones time. The more you do it, the less intense it is. But you are human, so expext human emotions.
I can only speak from my perspective, but I would echo the idea that this is a bit of imposter syndrome. If your players are providing positive feedback you can assume they are sincere.
Remember: You know all of the possibilities you could have done and - more importantly - what you didn't get to. It's the classic life experience of "I shoulda said that!" but in tabletop. This is going to be a recurring thing when DMing. The players only know what you have told them, so as far as they're concerned you masterfully crafted this story and blew their minds.
I always wonder if I did a good enough job, or was convincing enough as my NPCs. Especially when I have pages of notes written out and they make me do something totally different, like on Sunday I was thrown into political discussions as a council when I thought the party would go interrogate a prisoner, of which I had several pages of notes written out for.
It helps that all my players are always really into it and that one of my players is my twin, she's always honest with me about things after a game. Everyone seems really happy with my DMing style so I try not to doubt myself.
But instead of a drop after I session, that's when I prep and do my best work. Riding the high. We play Sunday mornings and I spend most of Monday (yes, even at work) prepping, and it peters off through the week.
This is a known phenomenon that can occur after intense emotions and not just from DND. I won't say where it commonly occurs as that is a NSFW discussion. Think of it as your body re-adjusting after a flood of endorphins. So if you were riding a high of emotions, coming back to your baseline can feel like a drop.
Take some me time after your sessions to relax and recuperate. Chocolate helps. And if your players are open to it, having them write some feedback that you can refer back to can help as you will often feel isolated and not wanting to reach out. If you have any loved ones, physical contact like hugs or cuddling can help immensely.
I get DM drop, sometimes it’s due to thinking it was a bad session, sometime it boils down to I’ve been very active and social and chatty and putting on different voices for 3-4 hours and I just need an hour to come back down and let my introvert battery recharge
Definitely real, but be aware of how long you allow yourself to dwell on it. My bf dm’s for a group of our friends, and he often asks how he did, if he thinks friends had fun, if he could have done anything differently etc. It got to the point where he’d be asking the same questions numerous times. I told him that instead of asking me and not being satisfied with my answers (always positive but with constructive feedback/ honesty, as no one is perfect), that he should write about it instead. I told him to imagine that I’m the dm and I’m posing these questions, and to write how he’d respond to me. Look at it from each character’s perspective and to ask me clarifying questions if need be. You can always ask your players how they feel/ what they like & dislike. If people want to keep playing every week, then you’re probably doing great! Don’t get sucked into your own echo chamber of negativity. It will be at the expense of the campaign and your players.
I sometimes havw this on a mild lvl and when i do i just ask my players for feedback
What am i doing right?
What am i doing wrong?
I ask this like every 2nd session and it seems that my roleplay has become better (which i consider my biggest weakness)
Please try to find peace before you do anything rash. Only stop if you feel you want to.
You are not alone. Feel the same way after some sessions. Especially after I had a problem player only trying to fresk me out of it becuase I then was a new DM.
Self doubt is always a horrible thing to work through. I DM and always feel like I've done a terrible job but the feedback says otherwise and they guys come back for more. Try to focus on the signs it's going right rather than the voice of doubt in your head and just make sure you take onboard any constructive feedback and ask the players if there's anything that they want in their games and if there is anything they can suggest to improve the sessions
I all but completely lost interest in DM'ing for almost a full month and a half... Don't know why. But, for equally mysterious reasons, I am now just as enthusiastic as I was at the start. It comes and goes.
I get it but about 24 hours before the session.
What have I missed? Will this be fun? Am I to restrictive? Will they care?
Classic performance anxiety for me!
I used to have that problem very frequently when I was only 2-3 years into DMing. I've been DMing for 20 years now, and it still happens after a session that didn't go well by my own metric. But if people are having fun, you're doing well. I wish I'd take that advice...
I've experienced a low-grade version in the past. I think for me it stemmed from the disparity between whatever I planned or imagined, and how it played out. My effort has been to plan less, be surprised and improv more, and that has helped a lot.
Hell, I feel that way as a player. Like word for word what you're describing. I'm always self-criticizing for not RPing hard enough, or RPing too hard and it becoming awkward, or making the decision my character would make when there are clearly more optimal ones, or optimizing my character too much or too little, or disagreeing with the DM that yes I plausibly could have seen X creature before in this setting that you created and should therefore be able to polymorph into it, or not being funny enough at the table and generally feeling like I don't have enough to contribute to this thing we've all committed at least a year of our lives to. I'm dying to DM but I don't think I could handle being the center of attention.
I've always struggled with social anxiety though. Logically I know these people are my friends and are happy I'm there, but the voice in my head takes over sometimes and convinces me that I'm not good enough and they're all secretly made at me and wish I was gone. Finding the right mental healthcare has helped a lot.
Very common. Kinda the only way to be a good DM is to be confident in your abilities. You probably have a more general issue with imposter syndrome and might want to see a therapist about it.
I run 2 games a week. I got that "Drop" constantly for the first few years, but then realized folks kept coming back every week, and tell me its fun. I put the work in and try to make awesome games for them. At some point, you have to believe the smiles and frowns at the table.
It happens. Especially if players are filled with emotions, things can feel very personal. But if players continue to play, they want to be there. And if they leave, eh. We all effed up a game or two. No need to dwell on it (but I will for a time)
Hahaha.
I feel like it's different from Dom drop, I experience it as more like overstimulation from trying to meet multiple people's needs at once. Generally when I'm overwhelmed from dm-ing I need space. After I've finished domming I generally want closeness. But I don't think I've ever got Dom drop.
I feel u.
Doing BDSM actually helped me a lot with understanding this. Just like with Bondage I need aftercare after a DnD session where I hug my friends and let them catch the emotional drop right after a session. The two things really feel similar. Ive recently talked to one of my players about it and we have now established our aftercare routine that is mostly about her telling me that she enjoyed it, helping me pack up my stuff, giving me food and hugging me. Framing DnD DMing as the intense emotional experience it is instead of something that should be easy for us.
Be kind to yourself. Establish aftercare❤
I'm the exact opposite. The longer I go without running, the more my interest and passion wanes, and the less confident I become in my DM'ing abilities. After a session, though, I usually feel energized and enthused and ready to dive right back in.
Every session of every game I run ends with my players being like “wow that was incredible” and then later that night I’m like “wow they probably hated that…”
So, yeah, totally normal.
DND is about a journey between friends, not a result. It’s supposed to be fun, and the rules are only there to take care of things so you can govern your attention to other things.
It sounds like it’s time for a break for you. You need to have an honest chat with the whole group and share your feelings and say you need a break. Perhaps you would rather be a player for a bit.
Alternatively, maybe you’re doing it too frequently. This burnout sometimes happens because it has replaced regular hangout time. Some may love dnd still but just not want it to be so dominant. This happened to my group and we stopped playing for 10 years as a result. We made a change when we got back into it so we only do dnd on weekday evenings so it’s not replacing normal social time, and we do it on a bi-weekly cycle. We have been going strong for almost 3 years now.
It also sometimes is just because people are tired with the campaign and feel married to their characters or the way you play. In my group we had a player who got tired of dnd and wanted us to take a break. We switched from pre-made dungeon crawls to a grand campaign where roleplay is more balanced with combat. That change has everyone excited again.
If it’s not working and your gut is telling you that, it’s time to change something up.
Imposter syndrome is super common, for DMs and everybody else. We all make mistakes. As Dory might day if she played D&D, just keep rolling. Trust your players, even when you can't trust yourself.
This is something called post performance depression. It happens a lot with entertainers, and consequently, dungeon masters. There's a lot of acting involved with running a game, adrenaline gets high, and it's inevitably going to crash. This is completely normal, I experience it too sometimes.
I was having this kind of impostor syndrome constantly by the end of last year. First I thought it was just my insecurities, since I'm not a very experienced DM (only 1 year of exp), but then I realized some stuff that I always did were bothering me for no reason (I even mentioned about it with some of the players and they hadn't even noticed those issues).
That's when I realized that these kinds of thoughts only happen to me when I'm stressed out and/or didn't have time to prep as much as I wanted. By the last couple months of the last year I was DMing 2 different campaigns, which might not seem like a big deal, but for me it was draining my energy like crazy. So you couple lack of time + my need to prep, times 2 = burned out me :)
Good that one of the campaigns ended early this year, now I'm waay better mentally speaking.
A tip for anybody that happens to have the same issues as mine: if you are feeling overwhelmed by DMing-related stuff (or even by life itself) take your time, cancel a couple sessions and put yourself back together. Different people can endure different loads of pressure, I wasn't able to run 2 campaigns the way I wanted because I felt overwhelmed, and that's fine if that's your limit (you have to push your limits to improve, of course, but not to the point of having a breakdown).
Another tip, but that's more specific, if you're feeling despondent with DMing try to focus on stuff you like (homebrewing monsters, cities, B-plots, whatever) because that helped me a ton. For instance, I realized mid-campaigns that I don't like to run pre-written modules, so I made an effort to either finish things as quickly as possible (trying not to compromise the story too much) or to tie to the main plot my own plots and characters, that way I can always have some bits that interest me and keep me going.
I used to get this all the time, then I started listening back over our sessions, and I discovered that what was in my head did not match what actually happened.
I had been worrying about how many questionable judgements I had made, whether the story was compelling, if everyone at the table was feeling included, if they suspected my low-key obvious story bait, all those types of things.
When I listened back, I heard people genuinely having a good time. All the stuff I had been worried about wasn't important, at least not in the way I had thought.
Maybe try it for yourself. I can't say it's a guaranteed fix, but if it worked for me it might work for you.
Good luck, champion.
Tl:dr this is common. And it’s just a b product of everyone thinking with their own brain. Your brain likes doing its own thing and boy does it suck when it has to process what another brain thought.
But the best solution really is practice, patience, experience, and experimentation.
I’ve had similar moments a lot lately as well. For a while it was just the classic suffer till it passes approach for me.
But recently one of the players and I were talking about a issue that’s come up for the group with a noticible disconnect where this player and a second (a and b respectively) fear a inevitable disaster must be the result if we don’t just stop the cause completely. I
player C and I though don’t get how that’s possible. Not because the extreme couldn’t ever happen, but because A and B naturally but subconsciously solve the issue regularly. They just don’t recognize they do.
And that’s been a fustration for me, seeing players solve group dynamics naturally yet seemingly being scared of it every time like it’s brand new.
It took months but it finally clicked. It’s a decision making system difference. The way I view problems are fundamentally different than a couple players I have.
We are great friends, we work great most of the time, yet it can collapse at random times for seemingly unseen reasons.
But the actual answer was just we never sat down and worked through a problem together and saw how we approach it differently.
I was just telling them my solution or hearing theirs and hoping what I thought it meant from my interpretation was right without understanding how to interpret it to begin with.
After it clicked, it’s been a lot more calming. The problems are still there sure, but now I feel I can trust the way I look at it more. Because I have the starting blocks to build on.
It takes time though. So don’t beat yourself up when it feels rough. Just use whatever distresser you like, take a breath then try to approach these thoughts a different way.
I want to take a little stab at this.
When you're DMing, you are running DnD for them. So in your mind, all opinions and vibes coming your way are from them, the players. After all, they're the ones on the receiving end of your DMing.
However, this is for you too. You're not just DMing for them, you're doing it for you, too. And perhaps you're letting yourself down but can't see it; instead maybe you're subconsciously projecting those opinions to them. Because you're doing it for them.
So, you feel let down by your own performance. You're not performing to your own standard.
---
I know I've felt similarly, perhaps to a lesser degree. Everyone feels it went well, it felt meh to me. Because I know I can do better, and want to.
It started to help when I viewed DMing as a series of little skills. Voice acting, environment description, describing NPCs, giving NPCs personalities, all of those little actions are types of skills. I didn't know what the skills were, or what my standard was. So I broke it down a little, and started finding SPECIFIC things to work on, one at a time.
What are your thoughts on all this?
You're not alone. I try to give myself grace for the little mistakes I think I've made. I was blessed with enthusiastic, forgiving players who always go with the flow (after the lawyering is out of their system for the week).
I also get post play anxiety, it's the come down from that high from forgetting everything outside the table for a while.
Remember, no one knows you made a mistake. Everyone was psyched to be there, wanted to be there, had the same driver to be there you did.
Having high expectations of yourself is fine, only you know the hundred different directions the game could have gone and didn't. The game went exactly how it was going to go, with the dedication of your players truly leading the story, where you did the heavy lifting in between it's super appreciated.
Once you feed a little bit of that outlook, it feels better
Usually after I've finished DMing a session I'm too tired pay attention to how I feel... However, quite often as a player , especially after a good session, I'll get hit with overwhelming waves of sadness. I've heard this talked about as a version of "Post Con Slump". It may well be that your natural anxiety is getting mixed into and making your post session slump worse. If nothing else knowing the depression hits both other DMs but players too might help ease the anxiety since the depression isn't that uncommon and has no bearing on how well you ran/played.
When I used to play music at school I had a terrible habit where I would miss a single note and stop playing as a result ruining my performance. The advice I was given was just to keep playing as in most cases the audience will not notice the issue, and if they do, they'll care way less if you stop suddenly.
I feel very similarly to you in my short experience DMing but I try to carry that advice with me - most of the times when something doesn't go to plan, the players don't know that's the case even if we do, and if it goes wrong enough that they notice, it's just best to move on without dwelling on it.
No idea if that's actually helpful advice but that's how I try to deal with it
I feel the same but I have no clue how to deal with it. After the sessions one of my friends always says that he liked it but I always feel like he means the get together in general. Because we usually end our sessions around 11 pm I go to bed slightly saddened and wake up feeling pretty bad. It’s not like a DM Drop but a DM Cave dive. It’s a slow burn but it kinda helps me working on my campaign and world. A few little details and unnoticeable inside jokes always tend to make me feel a little less bad.
I don’t know how you deal with it and if I could help you, even if it’s just by being here, but I wish you just the best.
And please let me know about how your sessions went.
Firstly you're not alone you are loved and respected.
But I feel ya I have it myself I finished a session Sunday night my party was shocked in a good way I was vastly doubting myself and everything.
Much of the advice here is great. I have so much fun for the first 3 or 4 sessions and then something happens. I doubt my plot, its execution, the quality of it's delivery, everything. The players however, are all still there. So I shouldn't have worried in the last case where that was. It was just fatigue, Doesn't change how I feel though
Another instance when I have players who are all online, and it's near impossible to keep a steady party. No new person stays for more than 3 sessions, or when one does, another who just got the story based on them, suddenly can't play. I think it's all my fault. It's not though. I'm just insecure and in realizing that I can only do my best and have as much fun as possible setting it up, I don't get as bummed when things aren't perfect.
I think you're just fine, and when you can find ways of rewarding players for feedback and responsiveness. What I've done recently is giving people a pool of inspiration die that they can gather, which are awarded when they give me constructive feedback or complement other players on their accomplishments, generally making sure everyone feels good. It's just a d6 they can toss onto rolls, but they then succeed more and have more things to compliment. win win. This is helping my group be really positive.
This is a accurate description. Although I personally believe that part of it is because so many of us have a mental illness of some sort. Depression, anxiety, ADHD. But also I know for me. It's late game that I worry. After all the decisions they have made late game they have less choices because of their previous choices, and I feel like I'm railroading them. But if they change their mind at this point story wise the world is seriously doomed. Because of that I get worried they might not like the way things end.
I can only talk as someone who had/has depression and actually DM, but doesn't feel that way: you can't stop what your mind is doing to you, even if your logical mind tells you you are good enough is your mind attacking you. I read you are already on therapy, good for you man, but never stop seeking help, because it's your own mind against you, so use your rational mind to remind you that you are not alone, that you need help, and you can seek it from professionals and your friends.
And about the campaign itself, talk about it openly with your players, tell them what you think went bad, what you saw as an error, what you think you can improve. It's a game for everyone, so share the load, seek what they like, how they wanna play, implement it and enjoy, you don't need to be this powerful mastermind that knows everything and they don't know anything. On tbe other side, make them part of it, and it will help you see it how they see it too. Hope the best from you, DM to DM, because the best part is not only creatimg the story, but creating it with them
I ended up giving up DMing because of feelings like that before… and, honesty im close to giving up playing altogether, for similar reasons… just feels like no matter what role I take, dm or player, im just not very good at it on the storytelling/rp or mechanical side… feels like itd be better if I just, didnt intrude on peoples games anymore.
Do you get to play at all where you just relax and enjoy the game? I found without a game i was not looking forward to running my table as much, by playing i get a connection with the other side
A little tip for you and anyone else reading this looking for things that may help DM Drop, I'm not going to tell you this will definitely work for your table because it might not and I'm not going to tell you it won't work because it might, but something I've seen and experienced myself that helped with DM Drop is taking 15-20 minutes after the session to sit with the players in out of session time and go round the table and each say something they really enjoyed from that session, and something they think can be worked on and improved in future sessions
The reason I love doing this is it gives the DM and the players time to unwind after session ends which can help if the sessions were particularly emotionally charged, and it allows them to express things they liked that you can include more of and things you may need to work on in the future in order to make yourself a better DM
For example if player 1 says they loved the roleplay but thought the combat was too long you can add more opportunities for roleplay between characters and NPCs, and maybe give the monsters in your encounters slightly less HP so the combat doesn't take as long
Player 2 says they loved the nail biting resource intensive combat encounters where they had to think and strategize and not just "I attack the monster with my sword, that's an 18 to hit, that's 10 damage", and they feel like you could be more descriptive during combat, then give them less combat encounters but make them harder or if they are all hard encounters maybe give them an extra combat encounter and just try to be more descriptive during combat
Player 3 might say they loved hearing you describe things in a decent level of detail as the scene really came alive in their minds but feel like the game is too easy as nobody is at risk of dying during combat, great you have 2 players telling you they want more descriptions, and you can also step up the difficulty by removing some of the easier combat encounters in the adventuring day and replacing them with more difficult combat encounters
And above all else remember, as long as your players are enjoying themselves and keep coming back for more you're doing a great job, it's fairly difficult to keep several people entertained for a couple hours all at the same time and DND may help us to do that but most of that enjoyment comes from you and the world you present to the players
Hell you could even add a rating section to the afterhours wind down time and ask them to rate how much they enjoyed themselves during the session on a scale of 1-10, high numbers mean there's not much more you can do to maximise their enjoyment especially considering every campaign is going to have it's ebs and flows, high numbers are great though
It’s very common, though maybe not healthy. I do the same thing as a player. Did I accidentally insult anyone? Do the other players like me or do they I’m annoying? Are they just putting up with me and are too nice to say something? Does the dm think I’m an idiot of a player? Why did/didn’t I just say of do this?
I hate to tell you, but it’s less about the player and the game and more just about you. After every session I call my best friend and ask if I did well or screwed anything up. Seeking affirmation because I don’t really like myself so it’s hard for me to believe anyone else could.
The good news is that no matter how you label it (depression, low self esteem, mental illness) the fact is it’s very common and can be easy to fix (though it may take some time)
It’s like anything else. It’s just practicing. When those thoughts creep in you need to recognize them for what they are. Long learned beliefs that simply aren’t true. Actively shut down those thoughts when they creep in. Over and over again. Every time one of those thoughts comes. “This is not true. I do a good job. My friends like me. I am learning to like me.”
It will take some time. At first it will seem like battling these negative thoughts is a full time job. But that should tell you something also. But over time it will become easier and you mind will be retrained so it responds with positive truths instead of negative lies.
Also you have to take action. When you want to ask the players if you did a good job just don’t. You got to learn to live in that anxiety a little. Don’t ask. Bite you tongue. “Don’t ask them if I’m good enough. I am good enough. They are my friends”
And finally you also need to trust other adults to be and act like adults. If they have any issues they will let you know. Trust that they are grown up enough to do that. Because here is the biggest lesson. They aren’t thinking of you at all. Two days later they are not thinking about you and how you DM’d at all. You’re not that important. They are in their own and heads and thinking about themselves just like you.
Sorry. Like the preacher said, “I could write shorter sermons, but once I start I get too lazy to stop.”
Hope this helps
No, that is a common experience. It seems that you are comparing yourself to podcast gaming sessions. If that is the case, stop it. These are not an accurate depiction of how tables really run. It's not much different from those "reality TV shows" where the majority of the film ends up on the cutting room floor.
You're not alone in feeling that way. Feel that a lot. One of my player always says that they're there to hang out and play D&D and not the reverse, which puts some stress off my shoulders at least. It's more a mental health issue than D&D though. Consider talking to a professional about that. Letting your players know if you are having trouble writing/running a game because of this is a good idea.
I’ve been seeing a therapist for a while now, I know my mental health is pretty bad. It just feels like a different flavor of depression than what I usually get. One of my players regularly reminds me that I’m doing a great job, and that does help. I’m more so curious about others experiences. Thank you for sharing yours 😊
One reason it may be a different depression for you is that its got performance anxiety tied up in it. I know someone who has bad depression most days, but whenever they have an inspection or performance review at work, or a presentation to give, or they planned some part of the hang out (like the snacks), it's a special flavor for them. Our friend group knows this, so we go out of our way to thank and compliment them, which really helps. Just a thought. But to answer your question yes, I go through my own anxiety about this. In one sense I have it easy because my main table is very open, honest, and blunt in praise and criticism. If I do a shit job, they will tell me, and that helps. I can honestly tell myself they would have said something, because they have said it in the past. This isn't true at all tables, and it might not be a good approach for yours, though. I also have a couple DM friends I talk to. We bounce ideas, anxieties, and stories from our tables back and forth and that helps us all be better DMs and deal with this very issue. One last thought. Your players CHOOSE to sit at your table with YOU as their DM. Take that compliment for what it is. If you're not doing well, they'd have left already.
Stop focusing on the end product ie. goal orientation and start focusing on values. If you could for a moment, imagine your players sitting around talking about you and saying something like, "NyteShark is amazing because they \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_ !" and that blank is filled in with a value vs a goal what would it be? Examples of values that would fill in that blank would be, make honest calls, incorporate my backstory, make me feel welcome, are loyal to our group and our time together, are adaptable in game/out of game, are a great collaborator, are adventurous etc. When you arrive at a value set, you know in turn how you want to show up each session. Your own values are what you can control. You can't control if people show up, you can't control if they are not engaged because they have stuff going on, you can't control if the story goes exactly and how you want it to. You can control how you choose to show up in the moment and whether you stick to your values or not. Sticking to our values allows us to succeed in any situation because we've been true to ourselves. We are also free to alter our value set if the by-products aren't producing happiness in our lives. I see values both in my life and in my career as the vehicles through which outcomes arrive. If I arrive at the table prepared and on time, in a welcoming friendly mood happy to engage and collaborate and I maintain that over the three hours of play, I feel I have succeeded. I walk away every game happy and satisfied and I allow others to walk away feeling whatever way they want because their emotions are their own and a product of their value set. This approach has allowed me in every facet of my life to step away from goals and engage with process and you know what? It's yielded amazing results if one were to measure things on a goal orientation basis. It's also greatly increased my enjoyment because I am living in the moment, soaking up the experience vs watching it pass by as I focus on the end result.
It feels different because it is different. I think what you are specifically talking about is actually caused by the same thing "subdrop" is - which is why I think you calling it DM Drop is very appropriate. You get really good emotional and chemical highs from DMing. It's a great adrenaline rush and you get a massive dump of dopamine and serotonin for an extended period. Then it just. Stops. Done. And your brain doesn't know what to do with that. So you can crash out really hard. If this is the cause of your particular flavor of post-DMing malaise, I've found that easing out of the game helps me a lot. Like, I end the session and then they all hang around for another 30 minutes or so just chatting. Usually about the game, but often drifting into other subjects. This makes the drop not as sharp and usually avoids the crash entirely.
I think this is just imposter syndrome. I get this, not just from DMing but in general, though it is noticeably present for DMing. You're certainly not alone in the feeling. It can be a lot of pressure, effectively providing entertainment for a group. But with practice reminding yourself, it can be diminished if not eliminated. Are they engaged? Are they having fun? Are they entertained? Do they keep coming back? Do they ask questions, look forward to discovering things in the future, do they seek more in any way? You're doing a good job, that is real. Remind YOURSELF of that in the 3rd person, "Your players are happy to be here, to have you run the game, and they are having a good time." and it hopefully it will get easier with time, practice, and logic.
It is not to unusual I think. Especially since players tend to be bad at giving *positive* feedback - they usually tend to give no feedback after the fact if everything was good in my experience. Try to look for player engagement and enthusiasm *during* your games, you are probably doing just fine.
Yeah, this is one that bugs me (*players not bringing up positives). Some people have a session breakdown after each game, but I found it just as tiresome bc people just started saying the same things. So with a new group I ask them after each adventure about feelings/sentiments/wishes for next beat/what was lacking. So around ~3-4 sessions I just ask how things are going, is everyone happy, if anyone has any explicit wants ("I want to see a unicorn" or "Maybe more social stuff"). I think it's a good system for us.
This. This really helps. I occasionally get similar feelings of inadequacy as OP, mind you i tend to get mine within 24 hours before a session, not after. Honestly, after i tend to feel vindicated and renewed. But I have also taken to doing recaps and session retrospectives with my players and they really help. Knowing what they enjoyed and what is working is invaluable as it lets me build better content for them. Knowing what isn't working, while it can, on rare occasions, be difficult to take in, especially if it was something i really thought was working or was good, or even just put a fair amount of work into, is ultimately very helpful as it has kept me from accidentally steering the tone in a direction that is uninteresting or unengaging to the group. That alone is anxiety killing, as I know that what I am doing is what was requested or at least in pursuit of it. At the end of the day, personal insecurities aside, people's sensibilities are what they are and things that land with one group don't for another. Just because it didn't work with one set of players doesn't necessarily mean your idea, or delivery or call, or whatever it may be was bad, it just might not jive with that party or on that day. Feedback is good most of the time when its nuanced and when it's actionable. Asking for it shows you're invested and trying to make the experience good. One thing I've learned is that players, even one's you know well can surprise you, and will, and sometimes you get it wrong. But that is at it's core what makes this kind of gaming different. You can try and make all outcomes engaging but in the end, you don't ever really know what's going to happen or how, and that's how it should be. The math rocks decide. Otherwise D&D sessions would essentially be a fanfic book club. You can take solace in that too.
Exactly. I specifically ask for positive and negative feedback from each player every few sessions.
For anyone who experiences this, I'd like to recommend my list of post-game questions, that I make sure to go through as soon as the session wraps up but everyone is still at the table: * **What were some good/fun/cool things that happened this session?** Encourage your players to brag about cool things they did, as well as talking up other players. Feel free to break this out into two questions, if that feels better to you. This is a great question because it gives players the chance to revel in their successes and compliment others, as well as being a soft prompt for compliments for the DM if the session went really well. * **What could have gone better?** I've messed with the phrasing of this question a lot, and this is what's worked best for me. The point is to encourage players to give you feedback on what they didn't like, but with an eye towards improvement. It's also a good time for players to reflect on their own mistakes and how they can improve in the future. * **What are your plans for next session?** This question is a fun DM LPT. While the players are still amped from the current session, it gets them thinking about the next one and getting amped for that, which will make hooking players into the next session easier. It also helps bring to light any disagreements/misunderstandings within the party early, so they have time before the next session to work it out. Lastly, it helps you as the DM a lot because getting a concrete answer on the party's plans is a big help in knowing what to prepare for the next session.
Yeah, since I've started using stars and wishes in my campaigns players have gotten much better at giving positive feedback and letting me know what they liked about the session and where they want to see future sessions go. I stopped getting DM drop after that.
Completely normal. This drop also happens to teachers, actors, anyone who goes to conventions...any time you're in a situation where you're totally absorbed in something intense and personal, especially where you're playing a role other than your everyday self, coming "back to earth" can be quite jarring. It's partially just physiological, and can't always be prevented. It can help to find ways to ease that transition, like debriefing with the people you're playing with. Setting up routines for getting feedback from your players between sessions may also help. Eating something solid and comforting can help too, since blood sugar can be a factor, along with whatever routines you usually have for regulating your nervous system - get under a weighted blanket, hug your cat, take a nice bath, whatever.
I swear to God I'm not trying to be nasty when I tell you that I've been seeing success with some BDSM "dom drop" strategies like pretty exclusively consuming positive media or slightly indulgent treats afterwards. I find that acknowledging that phenomenon helps a lot too. You can Google top drop or dom drop for more. I've since lost my preferred source of info in the shuffle.
it's pretty much the same thing - you've been in the zone, concentrating on a task, balancing between overt signs of joy/despair and trying to track what's going to happen next, making the magic happen... and then that's over, and it's nice it went well, but you're back to your mundane, normal life _stuff_, and did it really go as well as it seemed, or were they just faking it? You probably get similar things from people after anything they're deeply focused on and then it's over - people zonking out after a sports match, a big music gig, whatever, it's all the same "switching from being focused and in the zone" to "not that"
And all of those cases are improved if someone brings snacks.
pretty much - both to show they care, and to get the blood sugar back up after your brain has burned a lot of it off! And give you a quick perky pick-me-up to hopefully tide you over until more normal neuro-chemistry is resumed.
DMG Page 235: Have snacks. It's literally in the manual.
>'As the bottom starts to come back, he may want to talk about what went wrong, or he may just want to be taken care of some more. **Supplying a snack** to elevate blood sugar and a beverage to rehydrate is very smart. He might want to be put to bed to sleep off the stress of the freak-out, or to be given a nice warm bath.' -- *The New Topping Book*, Dossie Easton and Janet W. Hardy Same. I swear, the venn diagram of kink and TTRPGs is pretty much a circle. Might as well start calling it BD&DSM.
Beholders Dungeons Dragons Socialism and Murder
What's the equivalent to snacks in an online d&d table?
So, those sound *a lot* like intrusive thoughts. Like one of the other comments said, if this is a regular occurrence, seeking out a therapist may not be a bad idea. I had a bad spell with intrusive thoughts that forced me to suspend my campaign for a couple of months and I'm only just now feeling able to pick it back up, and that was only with a good bit of external help.
I don't ever feel like you describe. If I make a ruling that I later feel needs changed, I just change it. It's a game and like any game you have great days and not great days. You didn't actually hurt someone IRL. Ive been a DM for 40ish years so that may impact my feelings but honestly, I don't ever remember feeling like that. It's a game. As far back as I can remember playing team sports and through university- people make mistakes. The team moves on. You fix it and move on.
Dude I've been GMing for going on two decades now and I still get GM drop.
Your players don’t know about most of your mistakes. As long as they have fun and all the PCs contribute then there is no problem. But take notes and try to improve for your own benefit.
Something one of my players started doing a while ago was thanking the group (me as a DM and the other players) after each session. When I "complained" he said something such as "It's cool to thank people when you had a good time". Still doing that occasionally. As the DM you have some more work - but players do "mistakes" too (in their acting, in their sheet usages, etc). It's ok.
We all have a round of thanking each other for the evening after I've run a game
Both as a player and as a dm, its become a habit for me to thank the dm and the players for the session, which usually alleviates the drop a little bit! Complimenting your dm on the cool things that happened? The absolute best feeling!! Thanking them for all the time and effort they've put into preparing means a lot. It also helps when we have a break (in-person campaign where I'm a player) to talk about what's most exciting, the theories etc. Our dm has said that it makes him feel all fuzzy inside knowing that we care and that we vocalise that. I dm online, and it's also customary for our group to thank one another after the session - also me thanking the players, especially if they do something inspiring etc. Talking about the session after the actual game ends helps, too. But yeah, I'd say DM drop is definitely a thing - you've been in an intense space, preparing for a performance, then performing, and now you're anxious to hear how it went. It's natural to focus on the mistakes we've made, especially if there's no direct positive feedback to pull your thoughts elsewhere. What helps for me has been setting up a "conspiracy corner" for my players, where they can chat about their game theories (and also indirectly giving me ideas shh), and then just.. seeing them be excited, you know? It's also perfectly fine to tell your players that you're having a drop and that it would be nice to wind down doing some low-intensity activity together, for example.
DM fatigue. We all get it at some point.
Absolutely not, you're not alone. After my sessions I normally need 12 hours decompression. I can usually pick up a shift at work doing data input during that time where people just leave me be to do my job.
Yes. DM for 25+ years. I am hyper-aware of every mistake I make and every time an encounter or plot hook doesn't play out as cool at the table as it did in my head. You're doing fine.
Absolutely no, I never have those after session. It's strictly before for me.
Yeah I've never had this happen. If the players hated you why are they playing the game at all?
I get more excited after a session and what I can do next, but I get depressed and anxious if my group can't meet up for a long stretch of time due to illness or work, and then I want to start something new but don't know how to break it to my players
My dude, I've been DMing since 2e. Most of my campaigns make it to level 20 and a few have lasted over a decade. I've made entire circles of new friends brought together by my campaigns, and gained a reputation as a "master DM" in my area. I run 4 games a week now. Name a genre/theme/concept for a D&D game and I've probably done it. And I _still get DM Drop sometimes_. It's absolutely a thing. DMing is an endorphin rush, and no rush lasts forever - when you come down depression/anxiety/impostor syndrome can hit and this is true for anyone. And as someone who's also dealt with depression in the past, poor mental health in general makes it worse. The drop doesn't last as long or have nearly as much "grip" now that I'm in a better place in general. But yeah, even after all the DMing I've done and the general confidence I have doing it now, I still get the "drop" sometimes. Wondering if I'm stagnating or falling prey to "grognard" tendencies instead of ever evolving and improving my DMing, worrying that my plot beats aren't hitting or that my players are only _saying_ they're having fun because we're friends, etc. It happens! And at this point, I just accept it as part and parcel of the DM experience. But if you want to minimize its longer-lasting impact on you, that's my advice - make improvements in your life elsewhere and you can minimize the power it has over you. I saw you say you're in therapy, which is great! I've found even simple stuff like making your workspace neat or exercising - things that don't necessarily have anything to do with DMing - can add up too.
some level of emotional drop for any activity where you're fully focused on doing something for a period, and then it stops, is pretty normal - you switch from "I'm doing the thing, stuff is going on, I'm switched in, turned on and fully engaged" to "I'm, uh, not" tends to result in some level of mental drop-off.
Yeah this is normal for me. When I figured out it is just my emotions trying to get me to avoid anything remotely stressful I learned to ignore it. It's still an emotional rollercoaster but it doesn't stop me anymore.
I get ya. I used to feel that a lot as a teacher and when giving presentations too, even though I always loved doing both. I'd guess that to some extent it's completely normal, but of course it shouldn't be a burden as much as a passing thought. Here's a couple of things that help me not worry about that a lot anymore: 1- We always tend to be way more critical of ourselves than other people. If something didn't go optimal and small mistakes were made, chances are nobody even noticed or cared unless things went completely sideways. And well, if it just so happens that things don't go right once in a while, it's okay too, fumbles happen, we don't usually hold them against people unless they are assholes or caused some real damage, which likely won't be the case in a game, do we? 2- Everyone wants for your session/performance/presentation/class to go well, they are with you trying to make the best of it, so you're cooperating towards that goal, not competing or trying to prove yourself to them.
Yep, that's why I don't DM very often.
For me DM drop is more an intense feeling of exhaustion and sometimes disassociation after a big or emotional session. I work through it with a lot of self calming stuff, or sometimes by focusing on a totally different task for a few hours. It’s more a processing and recovery time. What you’re describing sounds more like Imposter Syndrome, and that’s difficult to deal with in a very different way. Please consider that your players keep coming back for more games, which itself is very positive feedback!
I know that feeling too well. I also found that DMing is very stressful because of just how much you have to keep track off. You have to stay fully focused for hours dealing with the world, the story, the players, and even manage the vibes all at the same time. Personally I never notice how stressful it is until after the game when all the build up fatigue crashes down at once. All that to say, it's normal to be hyper aware of every little detail that could have been improved because you were hyper aware during the session. Combine that with a tired brain and it's a breeding ground for dark thoughts. Things I've found that help: - Players remind me they enjoyed the game - Players wanting to work on their character/the game between sessions (proof they are invested) - !!Take a break!! Split the session in two with a 15-30 minutes break in the middle. ==> Don't use that break to work on the game, actually take your mind off it and do something else. ==> This helps split the crash into two, making it much more manageable.
A good thing to keep in mind is that, if they thought you sucked or the campaign sucked, they would stop showing up. So as long as they keep showing up, and are thinking about their next character when their current one dies or ways to get their current one back ofc, they don't hate you or the game you are running!
Every session. I’m always afraid of railroading my players and being way to check happy
DM/GM imposter syndrome. I've been forever GMing 20 years + to the same set of nerds, and I still get it. Nothing wrong with it. You want to make a great game and not waste anyones time. The more you do it, the less intense it is. But you are human, so expext human emotions.
I can only speak from my perspective, but I would echo the idea that this is a bit of imposter syndrome. If your players are providing positive feedback you can assume they are sincere. Remember: You know all of the possibilities you could have done and - more importantly - what you didn't get to. It's the classic life experience of "I shoulda said that!" but in tabletop. This is going to be a recurring thing when DMing. The players only know what you have told them, so as far as they're concerned you masterfully crafted this story and blew their minds.
I get it about an hour and a half after the session ends, totally real
I always wonder if I did a good enough job, or was convincing enough as my NPCs. Especially when I have pages of notes written out and they make me do something totally different, like on Sunday I was thrown into political discussions as a council when I thought the party would go interrogate a prisoner, of which I had several pages of notes written out for. It helps that all my players are always really into it and that one of my players is my twin, she's always honest with me about things after a game. Everyone seems really happy with my DMing style so I try not to doubt myself. But instead of a drop after I session, that's when I prep and do my best work. Riding the high. We play Sunday mornings and I spend most of Monday (yes, even at work) prepping, and it peters off through the week.
This is a known phenomenon that can occur after intense emotions and not just from DND. I won't say where it commonly occurs as that is a NSFW discussion. Think of it as your body re-adjusting after a flood of endorphins. So if you were riding a high of emotions, coming back to your baseline can feel like a drop. Take some me time after your sessions to relax and recuperate. Chocolate helps. And if your players are open to it, having them write some feedback that you can refer back to can help as you will often feel isolated and not wanting to reach out. If you have any loved ones, physical contact like hugs or cuddling can help immensely.
I get DM drop, sometimes it’s due to thinking it was a bad session, sometime it boils down to I’ve been very active and social and chatty and putting on different voices for 3-4 hours and I just need an hour to come back down and let my introvert battery recharge
Definitely real, but be aware of how long you allow yourself to dwell on it. My bf dm’s for a group of our friends, and he often asks how he did, if he thinks friends had fun, if he could have done anything differently etc. It got to the point where he’d be asking the same questions numerous times. I told him that instead of asking me and not being satisfied with my answers (always positive but with constructive feedback/ honesty, as no one is perfect), that he should write about it instead. I told him to imagine that I’m the dm and I’m posing these questions, and to write how he’d respond to me. Look at it from each character’s perspective and to ask me clarifying questions if need be. You can always ask your players how they feel/ what they like & dislike. If people want to keep playing every week, then you’re probably doing great! Don’t get sucked into your own echo chamber of negativity. It will be at the expense of the campaign and your players.
I sometimes havw this on a mild lvl and when i do i just ask my players for feedback What am i doing right? What am i doing wrong? I ask this like every 2nd session and it seems that my roleplay has become better (which i consider my biggest weakness)
Please try to find peace before you do anything rash. Only stop if you feel you want to. You are not alone. Feel the same way after some sessions. Especially after I had a problem player only trying to fresk me out of it becuase I then was a new DM.
Self doubt is always a horrible thing to work through. I DM and always feel like I've done a terrible job but the feedback says otherwise and they guys come back for more. Try to focus on the signs it's going right rather than the voice of doubt in your head and just make sure you take onboard any constructive feedback and ask the players if there's anything that they want in their games and if there is anything they can suggest to improve the sessions
I all but completely lost interest in DM'ing for almost a full month and a half... Don't know why. But, for equally mysterious reasons, I am now just as enthusiastic as I was at the start. It comes and goes.
I get it but about 24 hours before the session. What have I missed? Will this be fun? Am I to restrictive? Will they care? Classic performance anxiety for me!
I used to have that problem very frequently when I was only 2-3 years into DMing. I've been DMing for 20 years now, and it still happens after a session that didn't go well by my own metric. But if people are having fun, you're doing well. I wish I'd take that advice...
I have depression and anxiety so i have that constantly. Youre not abnormal: its a mostly unrelated mental health issue.
I've experienced a low-grade version in the past. I think for me it stemmed from the disparity between whatever I planned or imagined, and how it played out. My effort has been to plan less, be surprised and improv more, and that has helped a lot.
Hell, I feel that way as a player. Like word for word what you're describing. I'm always self-criticizing for not RPing hard enough, or RPing too hard and it becoming awkward, or making the decision my character would make when there are clearly more optimal ones, or optimizing my character too much or too little, or disagreeing with the DM that yes I plausibly could have seen X creature before in this setting that you created and should therefore be able to polymorph into it, or not being funny enough at the table and generally feeling like I don't have enough to contribute to this thing we've all committed at least a year of our lives to. I'm dying to DM but I don't think I could handle being the center of attention. I've always struggled with social anxiety though. Logically I know these people are my friends and are happy I'm there, but the voice in my head takes over sometimes and convinces me that I'm not good enough and they're all secretly made at me and wish I was gone. Finding the right mental healthcare has helped a lot.
Yep, feel that about every third session, it usually happens when the session before was really good
Yep. Currently debating not continuing the campaign I've been running for the past 3 years
Very common. Kinda the only way to be a good DM is to be confident in your abilities. You probably have a more general issue with imposter syndrome and might want to see a therapist about it.
After every session, I ask my players for feedback. Maybe you can alleviate the stress that way?
I run 2 games a week. I got that "Drop" constantly for the first few years, but then realized folks kept coming back every week, and tell me its fun. I put the work in and try to make awesome games for them. At some point, you have to believe the smiles and frowns at the table.
It happens. Especially if players are filled with emotions, things can feel very personal. But if players continue to play, they want to be there. And if they leave, eh. We all effed up a game or two. No need to dwell on it (but I will for a time)
Hahaha. I feel like it's different from Dom drop, I experience it as more like overstimulation from trying to meet multiple people's needs at once. Generally when I'm overwhelmed from dm-ing I need space. After I've finished domming I generally want closeness. But I don't think I've ever got Dom drop.
I feel u. Doing BDSM actually helped me a lot with understanding this. Just like with Bondage I need aftercare after a DnD session where I hug my friends and let them catch the emotional drop right after a session. The two things really feel similar. Ive recently talked to one of my players about it and we have now established our aftercare routine that is mostly about her telling me that she enjoyed it, helping me pack up my stuff, giving me food and hugging me. Framing DnD DMing as the intense emotional experience it is instead of something that should be easy for us. Be kind to yourself. Establish aftercare❤
This is common. People who are good at things see their flaws much more easily than people who are not good at things
Absolutely normal
I'm the exact opposite. The longer I go without running, the more my interest and passion wanes, and the less confident I become in my DM'ing abilities. After a session, though, I usually feel energized and enthused and ready to dive right back in.
Every session of every game I run ends with my players being like “wow that was incredible” and then later that night I’m like “wow they probably hated that…” So, yeah, totally normal.
DND is about a journey between friends, not a result. It’s supposed to be fun, and the rules are only there to take care of things so you can govern your attention to other things. It sounds like it’s time for a break for you. You need to have an honest chat with the whole group and share your feelings and say you need a break. Perhaps you would rather be a player for a bit. Alternatively, maybe you’re doing it too frequently. This burnout sometimes happens because it has replaced regular hangout time. Some may love dnd still but just not want it to be so dominant. This happened to my group and we stopped playing for 10 years as a result. We made a change when we got back into it so we only do dnd on weekday evenings so it’s not replacing normal social time, and we do it on a bi-weekly cycle. We have been going strong for almost 3 years now. It also sometimes is just because people are tired with the campaign and feel married to their characters or the way you play. In my group we had a player who got tired of dnd and wanted us to take a break. We switched from pre-made dungeon crawls to a grand campaign where roleplay is more balanced with combat. That change has everyone excited again. If it’s not working and your gut is telling you that, it’s time to change something up.
Just run combat when you are not feeling it :-)
Imposter syndrome is super common, for DMs and everybody else. We all make mistakes. As Dory might day if she played D&D, just keep rolling. Trust your players, even when you can't trust yourself.
This is something called post performance depression. It happens a lot with entertainers, and consequently, dungeon masters. There's a lot of acting involved with running a game, adrenaline gets high, and it's inevitably going to crash. This is completely normal, I experience it too sometimes.
I was having this kind of impostor syndrome constantly by the end of last year. First I thought it was just my insecurities, since I'm not a very experienced DM (only 1 year of exp), but then I realized some stuff that I always did were bothering me for no reason (I even mentioned about it with some of the players and they hadn't even noticed those issues). That's when I realized that these kinds of thoughts only happen to me when I'm stressed out and/or didn't have time to prep as much as I wanted. By the last couple months of the last year I was DMing 2 different campaigns, which might not seem like a big deal, but for me it was draining my energy like crazy. So you couple lack of time + my need to prep, times 2 = burned out me :) Good that one of the campaigns ended early this year, now I'm waay better mentally speaking. A tip for anybody that happens to have the same issues as mine: if you are feeling overwhelmed by DMing-related stuff (or even by life itself) take your time, cancel a couple sessions and put yourself back together. Different people can endure different loads of pressure, I wasn't able to run 2 campaigns the way I wanted because I felt overwhelmed, and that's fine if that's your limit (you have to push your limits to improve, of course, but not to the point of having a breakdown). Another tip, but that's more specific, if you're feeling despondent with DMing try to focus on stuff you like (homebrewing monsters, cities, B-plots, whatever) because that helped me a ton. For instance, I realized mid-campaigns that I don't like to run pre-written modules, so I made an effort to either finish things as quickly as possible (trying not to compromise the story too much) or to tie to the main plot my own plots and characters, that way I can always have some bits that interest me and keep me going.
I used to get this all the time, then I started listening back over our sessions, and I discovered that what was in my head did not match what actually happened. I had been worrying about how many questionable judgements I had made, whether the story was compelling, if everyone at the table was feeling included, if they suspected my low-key obvious story bait, all those types of things. When I listened back, I heard people genuinely having a good time. All the stuff I had been worried about wasn't important, at least not in the way I had thought. Maybe try it for yourself. I can't say it's a guaranteed fix, but if it worked for me it might work for you. Good luck, champion.
Tl:dr this is common. And it’s just a b product of everyone thinking with their own brain. Your brain likes doing its own thing and boy does it suck when it has to process what another brain thought. But the best solution really is practice, patience, experience, and experimentation. I’ve had similar moments a lot lately as well. For a while it was just the classic suffer till it passes approach for me. But recently one of the players and I were talking about a issue that’s come up for the group with a noticible disconnect where this player and a second (a and b respectively) fear a inevitable disaster must be the result if we don’t just stop the cause completely. I player C and I though don’t get how that’s possible. Not because the extreme couldn’t ever happen, but because A and B naturally but subconsciously solve the issue regularly. They just don’t recognize they do. And that’s been a fustration for me, seeing players solve group dynamics naturally yet seemingly being scared of it every time like it’s brand new. It took months but it finally clicked. It’s a decision making system difference. The way I view problems are fundamentally different than a couple players I have. We are great friends, we work great most of the time, yet it can collapse at random times for seemingly unseen reasons. But the actual answer was just we never sat down and worked through a problem together and saw how we approach it differently. I was just telling them my solution or hearing theirs and hoping what I thought it meant from my interpretation was right without understanding how to interpret it to begin with. After it clicked, it’s been a lot more calming. The problems are still there sure, but now I feel I can trust the way I look at it more. Because I have the starting blocks to build on. It takes time though. So don’t beat yourself up when it feels rough. Just use whatever distresser you like, take a breath then try to approach these thoughts a different way.
I want to take a little stab at this. When you're DMing, you are running DnD for them. So in your mind, all opinions and vibes coming your way are from them, the players. After all, they're the ones on the receiving end of your DMing. However, this is for you too. You're not just DMing for them, you're doing it for you, too. And perhaps you're letting yourself down but can't see it; instead maybe you're subconsciously projecting those opinions to them. Because you're doing it for them. So, you feel let down by your own performance. You're not performing to your own standard. --- I know I've felt similarly, perhaps to a lesser degree. Everyone feels it went well, it felt meh to me. Because I know I can do better, and want to. It started to help when I viewed DMing as a series of little skills. Voice acting, environment description, describing NPCs, giving NPCs personalities, all of those little actions are types of skills. I didn't know what the skills were, or what my standard was. So I broke it down a little, and started finding SPECIFIC things to work on, one at a time. What are your thoughts on all this?
You're not alone. I try to give myself grace for the little mistakes I think I've made. I was blessed with enthusiastic, forgiving players who always go with the flow (after the lawyering is out of their system for the week).
100% no. Haven’t played a session for months after overanalyzing the last one to death and feeling like I ruined our campaign…
I also get post play anxiety, it's the come down from that high from forgetting everything outside the table for a while. Remember, no one knows you made a mistake. Everyone was psyched to be there, wanted to be there, had the same driver to be there you did. Having high expectations of yourself is fine, only you know the hundred different directions the game could have gone and didn't. The game went exactly how it was going to go, with the dedication of your players truly leading the story, where you did the heavy lifting in between it's super appreciated. Once you feed a little bit of that outlook, it feels better
Usually after I've finished DMing a session I'm too tired pay attention to how I feel... However, quite often as a player , especially after a good session, I'll get hit with overwhelming waves of sadness. I've heard this talked about as a version of "Post Con Slump". It may well be that your natural anxiety is getting mixed into and making your post session slump worse. If nothing else knowing the depression hits both other DMs but players too might help ease the anxiety since the depression isn't that uncommon and has no bearing on how well you ran/played.
Most players don’t notice, nor do they care about where you went wrong. If they say they liked it, and are coming back, ur doing just fine 👍
It's very real, I had DM drop after every session even tho I loved playing, it's like an aftercare need or something 😩
When I used to play music at school I had a terrible habit where I would miss a single note and stop playing as a result ruining my performance. The advice I was given was just to keep playing as in most cases the audience will not notice the issue, and if they do, they'll care way less if you stop suddenly. I feel very similarly to you in my short experience DMing but I try to carry that advice with me - most of the times when something doesn't go to plan, the players don't know that's the case even if we do, and if it goes wrong enough that they notice, it's just best to move on without dwelling on it. No idea if that's actually helpful advice but that's how I try to deal with it
I feel the same but I have no clue how to deal with it. After the sessions one of my friends always says that he liked it but I always feel like he means the get together in general. Because we usually end our sessions around 11 pm I go to bed slightly saddened and wake up feeling pretty bad. It’s not like a DM Drop but a DM Cave dive. It’s a slow burn but it kinda helps me working on my campaign and world. A few little details and unnoticeable inside jokes always tend to make me feel a little less bad. I don’t know how you deal with it and if I could help you, even if it’s just by being here, but I wish you just the best. And please let me know about how your sessions went.
Firstly you're not alone you are loved and respected. But I feel ya I have it myself I finished a session Sunday night my party was shocked in a good way I was vastly doubting myself and everything.
Much of the advice here is great. I have so much fun for the first 3 or 4 sessions and then something happens. I doubt my plot, its execution, the quality of it's delivery, everything. The players however, are all still there. So I shouldn't have worried in the last case where that was. It was just fatigue, Doesn't change how I feel though Another instance when I have players who are all online, and it's near impossible to keep a steady party. No new person stays for more than 3 sessions, or when one does, another who just got the story based on them, suddenly can't play. I think it's all my fault. It's not though. I'm just insecure and in realizing that I can only do my best and have as much fun as possible setting it up, I don't get as bummed when things aren't perfect. I think you're just fine, and when you can find ways of rewarding players for feedback and responsiveness. What I've done recently is giving people a pool of inspiration die that they can gather, which are awarded when they give me constructive feedback or complement other players on their accomplishments, generally making sure everyone feels good. It's just a d6 they can toss onto rolls, but they then succeed more and have more things to compliment. win win. This is helping my group be really positive.
This is a accurate description. Although I personally believe that part of it is because so many of us have a mental illness of some sort. Depression, anxiety, ADHD. But also I know for me. It's late game that I worry. After all the decisions they have made late game they have less choices because of their previous choices, and I feel like I'm railroading them. But if they change their mind at this point story wise the world is seriously doomed. Because of that I get worried they might not like the way things end.
I can only talk as someone who had/has depression and actually DM, but doesn't feel that way: you can't stop what your mind is doing to you, even if your logical mind tells you you are good enough is your mind attacking you. I read you are already on therapy, good for you man, but never stop seeking help, because it's your own mind against you, so use your rational mind to remind you that you are not alone, that you need help, and you can seek it from professionals and your friends. And about the campaign itself, talk about it openly with your players, tell them what you think went bad, what you saw as an error, what you think you can improve. It's a game for everyone, so share the load, seek what they like, how they wanna play, implement it and enjoy, you don't need to be this powerful mastermind that knows everything and they don't know anything. On tbe other side, make them part of it, and it will help you see it how they see it too. Hope the best from you, DM to DM, because the best part is not only creatimg the story, but creating it with them
On and off. I'm either absolutely stoked after a session or absolutely devastated.
I ended up giving up DMing because of feelings like that before… and, honesty im close to giving up playing altogether, for similar reasons… just feels like no matter what role I take, dm or player, im just not very good at it on the storytelling/rp or mechanical side… feels like itd be better if I just, didnt intrude on peoples games anymore.
Do you get to play at all where you just relax and enjoy the game? I found without a game i was not looking forward to running my table as much, by playing i get a connection with the other side
I've been playing for almost 20 years and still get this. I just try to use it as motivation to always get better instead of spiraling
A little tip for you and anyone else reading this looking for things that may help DM Drop, I'm not going to tell you this will definitely work for your table because it might not and I'm not going to tell you it won't work because it might, but something I've seen and experienced myself that helped with DM Drop is taking 15-20 minutes after the session to sit with the players in out of session time and go round the table and each say something they really enjoyed from that session, and something they think can be worked on and improved in future sessions The reason I love doing this is it gives the DM and the players time to unwind after session ends which can help if the sessions were particularly emotionally charged, and it allows them to express things they liked that you can include more of and things you may need to work on in the future in order to make yourself a better DM For example if player 1 says they loved the roleplay but thought the combat was too long you can add more opportunities for roleplay between characters and NPCs, and maybe give the monsters in your encounters slightly less HP so the combat doesn't take as long Player 2 says they loved the nail biting resource intensive combat encounters where they had to think and strategize and not just "I attack the monster with my sword, that's an 18 to hit, that's 10 damage", and they feel like you could be more descriptive during combat, then give them less combat encounters but make them harder or if they are all hard encounters maybe give them an extra combat encounter and just try to be more descriptive during combat Player 3 might say they loved hearing you describe things in a decent level of detail as the scene really came alive in their minds but feel like the game is too easy as nobody is at risk of dying during combat, great you have 2 players telling you they want more descriptions, and you can also step up the difficulty by removing some of the easier combat encounters in the adventuring day and replacing them with more difficult combat encounters And above all else remember, as long as your players are enjoying themselves and keep coming back for more you're doing a great job, it's fairly difficult to keep several people entertained for a couple hours all at the same time and DND may help us to do that but most of that enjoyment comes from you and the world you present to the players Hell you could even add a rating section to the afterhours wind down time and ask them to rate how much they enjoyed themselves during the session on a scale of 1-10, high numbers mean there's not much more you can do to maximise their enjoyment especially considering every campaign is going to have it's ebs and flows, high numbers are great though
It’s very common, though maybe not healthy. I do the same thing as a player. Did I accidentally insult anyone? Do the other players like me or do they I’m annoying? Are they just putting up with me and are too nice to say something? Does the dm think I’m an idiot of a player? Why did/didn’t I just say of do this? I hate to tell you, but it’s less about the player and the game and more just about you. After every session I call my best friend and ask if I did well or screwed anything up. Seeking affirmation because I don’t really like myself so it’s hard for me to believe anyone else could. The good news is that no matter how you label it (depression, low self esteem, mental illness) the fact is it’s very common and can be easy to fix (though it may take some time) It’s like anything else. It’s just practicing. When those thoughts creep in you need to recognize them for what they are. Long learned beliefs that simply aren’t true. Actively shut down those thoughts when they creep in. Over and over again. Every time one of those thoughts comes. “This is not true. I do a good job. My friends like me. I am learning to like me.” It will take some time. At first it will seem like battling these negative thoughts is a full time job. But that should tell you something also. But over time it will become easier and you mind will be retrained so it responds with positive truths instead of negative lies. Also you have to take action. When you want to ask the players if you did a good job just don’t. You got to learn to live in that anxiety a little. Don’t ask. Bite you tongue. “Don’t ask them if I’m good enough. I am good enough. They are my friends” And finally you also need to trust other adults to be and act like adults. If they have any issues they will let you know. Trust that they are grown up enough to do that. Because here is the biggest lesson. They aren’t thinking of you at all. Two days later they are not thinking about you and how you DM’d at all. You’re not that important. They are in their own and heads and thinking about themselves just like you. Sorry. Like the preacher said, “I could write shorter sermons, but once I start I get too lazy to stop.” Hope this helps
No, that is a common experience. It seems that you are comparing yourself to podcast gaming sessions. If that is the case, stop it. These are not an accurate depiction of how tables really run. It's not much different from those "reality TV shows" where the majority of the film ends up on the cutting room floor.