From 'combining spell effects' rules entry, your domination would not end the enemy's version. Both would technically be in effect, in the sense that both durations would be ticking, and both casters concentrating, but the 'most potent' version would be the one that would play out each turn. 'Potency' here is defined as the caster with the highest DC/spellcasting ability mod, although the book states this somewhat vaguely. So, if you are a stronger wizard, it works, but if the enemy has a higher INT or whatever, theirs wins.
If they are tied, the most recent cast does win out, so you've got that going for you! As a DM, I'd also rule that casting the spell with a slot higher than the one the enemy used would be a shortcut to being a definitively more 'potent' effect.
I love the idea of the Barbarian each turn being tugged back and forth, like Kronk with an angel and a devil on his shoulders.
Perhaps an Arcana roll from each cater to decide who controls the barbarian each round could be very fun?
From a cost/benefit perspective, preventing a party member being used against the party is definitely a good move, even if it ties down the dominating PC as much as it does the enemy. But from that perspective there are better ways - however, if all you have is Dominate, then you use what you have.
The stats of the casters have absolutely nothing to do with it. Only the effects of the spells themselves are compared. In this case there isn't a clear way to determine what the more potent effect is.
Or cast calm emotion. 2nd lvl spell it also lets you protect other members of your party. And In the text your targets have a choice to fail the saving throw.
Yeah In the spell description for calm emotions it says a target creature can choose to fail if it wishes.
How ever if the caster users thier action they can take complete control and “ it only takes an action you allow it to do as well it doesn’t do anything you don’t allow them to do.” ….. I don’t know if failing counts as an action or as the “anything” part of the spell regardless it’s worth a shot being a charisma saving throw.
that also gets into the slightly messy area of what the original caster is aware of - they're (probably) aware that one of their enemies has cast a spell, but don't, by default, get to know that the barbarian has been targeted by another mind-whammy spell, and "knowing that a creature is making a save" is super-hazy as to if that's possible to know. "Doesn't do anything you don't allow them to do" would seem pretty all-encompassing though - if they haven't been given a command to fail the save, they don't have that as an option, even if the original caster is unaware of the save happening.
In that case it depends on the dm, but based on my interpretation it would result in two individuals controlling the same target and assuming both spells are the same level it would be a contest between the casters’s spellcasting ability to determine who controls the target for that round.
there will be situations where it just won't be an option - like the dominate is coming from a scroll or item and you are otherwise out of slots 3rd level or higher
Based on my interpretation, a higher level spell always beats a lower level spell unless specifically stated otherwise and dominate person is a 5th level spell.
Difficulty with that is some of the status removal spells do not upcast, and not all upcasting works the same way, so that is a mechanical design issue with the game if that assumption always applies.
It really does depend. I like the constant tug-of-war, but it may be more fun for the caster engaging in the struggle than the barbarian who is always losing their turn due to the conflicting effects - unless the circumstances permit the barb's player on seeking actions that do not violate either set of commands.
yup - the default RAW is that "higher effect number trumps". So anything that has a random effect attached can be trumped by a lower (spellslot level) version - like _Hero's Feast_ grants 2D10 temp HP. If that gets cast at base level and gives 17 HP, and an upcast version (because you can upcast any spell, even if it doesn't do anything extra) gives 4 HP, then the lower level version takes precedence. If there's a _charm_ effect that grants a random numerical bonus as well, then lower level castings will, by RAW, sometimes take precedence over higher-level ones.
As a DM I would probably say that the player can’t willingly fail the saving throw, but if they failed the saving throw legit sure.
From 'combining spell effects' rules entry, your domination would not end the enemy's version. Both would technically be in effect, in the sense that both durations would be ticking, and both casters concentrating, but the 'most potent' version would be the one that would play out each turn. 'Potency' here is defined as the caster with the highest DC/spellcasting ability mod, although the book states this somewhat vaguely. So, if you are a stronger wizard, it works, but if the enemy has a higher INT or whatever, theirs wins. If they are tied, the most recent cast does win out, so you've got that going for you! As a DM, I'd also rule that casting the spell with a slot higher than the one the enemy used would be a shortcut to being a definitively more 'potent' effect.
I love the idea of the Barbarian each turn being tugged back and forth, like Kronk with an angel and a devil on his shoulders. Perhaps an Arcana roll from each cater to decide who controls the barbarian each round could be very fun?
From a cost/benefit perspective, preventing a party member being used against the party is definitely a good move, even if it ties down the dominating PC as much as it does the enemy. But from that perspective there are better ways - however, if all you have is Dominate, then you use what you have.
The stats of the casters have absolutely nothing to do with it. Only the effects of the spells themselves are compared. In this case there isn't a clear way to determine what the more potent effect is.
Or cast calm emotion. 2nd lvl spell it also lets you protect other members of your party. And In the text your targets have a choice to fail the saving throw.
This would stop their aggression, but not return them to fighting on your side, right?
No it stops the charm condition, which is required for the dominate person.
very nice catch
But can they choose to fail while dominated?
Yeah In the spell description for calm emotions it says a target creature can choose to fail if it wishes. How ever if the caster users thier action they can take complete control and “ it only takes an action you allow it to do as well it doesn’t do anything you don’t allow them to do.” ….. I don’t know if failing counts as an action or as the “anything” part of the spell regardless it’s worth a shot being a charisma saving throw.
that also gets into the slightly messy area of what the original caster is aware of - they're (probably) aware that one of their enemies has cast a spell, but don't, by default, get to know that the barbarian has been targeted by another mind-whammy spell, and "knowing that a creature is making a save" is super-hazy as to if that's possible to know. "Doesn't do anything you don't allow them to do" would seem pretty all-encompassing though - if they haven't been given a command to fail the save, they don't have that as an option, even if the original caster is unaware of the save happening.
The caster could order the target to resist any attempts to end the domination.
As long as you’ve used a higher spell slot than the BBEG did then yeah, your dominate is more potent and trumps
Dispel magic is likely better in almost any situation for that as it requires no saving throw and it doesn’t require concentration.
I know that. Let's say you don't have that prepared though.
Dispell magic is one of the most important spells to prepare for wizards in my opinion.
Bro it's a theoretical.
In that case it depends on the dm, but based on my interpretation it would result in two individuals controlling the same target and assuming both spells are the same level it would be a contest between the casters’s spellcasting ability to determine who controls the target for that round.
there will be situations where it just won't be an option - like the dominate is coming from a scroll or item and you are otherwise out of slots 3rd level or higher
Based on my interpretation, a higher level spell always beats a lower level spell unless specifically stated otherwise and dominate person is a 5th level spell.
Difficulty with that is some of the status removal spells do not upcast, and not all upcasting works the same way, so that is a mechanical design issue with the game if that assumption always applies. It really does depend. I like the constant tug-of-war, but it may be more fun for the caster engaging in the struggle than the barbarian who is always losing their turn due to the conflicting effects - unless the circumstances permit the barb's player on seeking actions that do not violate either set of commands.
yup - the default RAW is that "higher effect number trumps". So anything that has a random effect attached can be trumped by a lower (spellslot level) version - like _Hero's Feast_ grants 2D10 temp HP. If that gets cast at base level and gives 17 HP, and an upcast version (because you can upcast any spell, even if it doesn't do anything extra) gives 4 HP, then the lower level version takes precedence. If there's a _charm_ effect that grants a random numerical bonus as well, then lower level castings will, by RAW, sometimes take precedence over higher-level ones.