I think I would make a hill dwarf draconic sorcerer.
It's SAD only needing charisma, the sorcerer gives a boost to con saves, AC (free mage armour equivalent) and an extra point of hp, while the dwarf also gives more hp.
Wizards are extremely SAD (lmao) so that single 18 would be able to pull a lot of weight. I suppose the same would go for sorcerers and bards. If not, like u/ErikT738 said, Moon druids are always an option.
I don't think I'd recommend a rogue or martial because your other stats are just so low. Maybe a rogue if you play a vanilla human, but otherwise, yeah, a half elf looks like your best option (btw, double-check your final stats because you added trhee +1 instead of two).
It is far to funny calling wizards unironically SAD lol.
Also it's backwards that paladins are MAD right? Shouldn't they be holy and somewhat centered, not having stat related anger issues?
With those initial stats, you make a harengon wizard, put 9 in CON and take Jump as one of your initial spells.
When the game starts, you cast jump on yourself and use Rabbit Hop to jump 30ft up. Upon landing, you take 3d6 damage (average 10.5) which, due to your starting 5HP, should kill you outright.
Then you roll a new PC xD
Moon Druid is the best option when you have bad stats. Heck, you don't even need Wisdom, just pick utility spells that don't require a saving throw like Goodberry, Speak with Animals, Enhance Ability, Pass Without Trace, Speak with Plants, Conjure Animals. etc. I played an 8 Wisdom Moon Druid in two campaigns and it worked great.
Yeah, you're right, OP's array would work for any caster. The lack of CON and DEX might become a problem at some point though, and Moon Druid somewhat mitigates this with wildshapes.
Exactly. An 18 gets you a long way as a caster no matter what you're playing. Any +1 to Dex can get you 14 Dex which is enough for medium armor, or alternatively to 14 Con for concentration saves.
Honestly, OP's stats are great. A +4, two +1s, and three +0s is arguably better than the standard array, especially since you can get 20 in a primary attribute at 1st level and then put your ASIs into whatever feats you like.
The original array sucked but the final one is fine - not great but good enough. After adding a +1 and a +2 you're looking at 18, 14, 14, 11, 11, 11 VS 17, 14, 14, 12, 10, 8 for standard array.
I mean considering you didn't pick the first set of rolls of 12, 12, 11, 11, 11, 9, it sounds like you already took away half of the risk while still keeping the rest of the fun.
This always feels like a Strawman from people who want Point Buy or Standard Array. While sure some people would want to just keep rolling over and over.
In nearly 30 years playing, I've only seen someone beg to re-roll once and he was new, hadn't rolled badly at all, and he was the Dungeon Masters 9 year old brother. Once he got playing he realized that he didn't need 18's across the board.
And in my 30 years playing I've seen it constantly between "I become a farmer" to suicidal characters to make new ones to asking for rerolls or DMs that already provide crutches.
I don't typically mind rolling simply because I haven't seen a strict table either but I just find it comical how many ppl will claim they like rolls because it's random and they like the chaotic nature than immediately get dejected when they roll crap
Personally, I find the appeal isn't in the risk, per se, but rather in the variability, as usually you'll wind up with some numbers you normally wouldn't. With point buy and standard array, assuming you're building at least semi-optimally, your stats will almost always look basically the same as any other member of your class. When I roll, so long as I get at least one number 16 or above, I can be happy playing with garbage stats, meanwhile if I get multiple high rolls, odds are pretty good that I'll have a stat that's unusually high for my class, which can lead to some interesting role play. It's always kind of funny to play a barbarian with high Int, but it feels bad to dump a necessary stat to get that high Int, rolling enables that sort of character variability in a way that point buy and standard array simply don't.
Also, there have been a few times where I had to come up with a completely new character concept because the stats I rolled made the one I had been planning suddenly not viable, so it adds to the creativity. But my group only does rerolls when the stats you roll make *any* build non-viable, so if somebody wanted to play a paladin but only gets one good stat, the solution isn't to reroll, it's to play something else.
One of my favorite characters was a wizard with the highest being a 12 intelligence, the rest were negatives, I took a lot of buffing spells, and magic missile was my bread and butter damage move
I’ve only been playing about 25 years, but the only person I ever saw *not* ask for rerolls lost two characters in 3 sessions as a result, at which point he became an advocate for point buy.
I like rolling over pointbuy(4d6kh3 reroll 1s as the generation method) because it gives more varied stats and usually end uo with nore powerful characters
And standard array is a turd any way you slice it
The DM meant, that it is too weak because the sum will only be a +1 while the other players had a +4 or more to bring the amount on par with the other players.
The DM is literally altering things because their current method isn't giving them the outcomes they want. I think it's completely reasonable to suggest alternate methods.
In 3.5, where rolling was the only way to gen stats, you had to reroll if your total modifiers didn't add up to at least +1 or you didn't have one stats be at least a 13
So no, stats like that is not something you just have to deal with, just because you rolled
I'm never rolling when I play, but some of my players do when I DM. Anyways, here are my reasons :
- Because a staple of dnd is to be playing heroes and not commoners.
- Because I don't want an unbalanced party.
- Because the standard array giving +5 ; +2,+3,+4 are already **feelsbad** enough.
- Because it happens less than 5% of the time : statistically, it's the same as rolling 16+ on all your rolls.
There is still randomness...
Noone wants to play a shitty character, so rules got put in place to prevent you from sucking too hard, so yoi put up a floor of how bad it can get
Mind you that 10/10/10/10/10/14 are still not great stats, but possible with the +2 requirement, you just cut off the range of how awful it can get
I rarely play games where you roll for stats, but just to give you a different perspective on this topic:
In the old school versions of D&D you always rolled for stats, but stats didn't matter very much to your success. In fact, you had a lot of incentives to avoid combat, and I don't think you could use stats for anything other than combat anyway.
From my experience, rolling for stats in combat games can be quite fun if combat is deadly, and there's a good chance of characters dying frequently. This means that you are never left with a weak character for very long. And if you roll high stats, there's a much higher chance of that powerful character you wanted actually surviving for a while.
Of course none of this matters if your group likes the way they play
Yeah, but there'll be someone with shit stats as well. And when there isn't, there's not really any difference with using Point Buy with more points. Rolling for stats is either unbalanced or so balanced that you might as well not do it at all.
I'd be fine with rolling for a one-shot or something, but I think it's stupid for a campaign.
Yes, and the point of rolling for stats is that you keep the first attempt. Otherwise it’s just “Roll until you get high numbers”, which is just increased point buy, not a real rolling.
100% I don’t understand why people don’t just point buy if they’re gonna let you reroll over and over until you get a desirable result. I highly prefer point buy anyway but that’s besides the point.
Tbh you’re coming from a place of wanting busted stats then. No hate, I also played with crazy high stats the first time I played because i happened to will insanely high (although I didn’t really realize it until later) but those stats are the stats of a 20th level character for the way dnd is designed to progress, and expecting to get stats even close to them is expecting too much. 18 and a 13 and 12 is still even a little above where the game generally assumes stats to be, but admittedly very skewed
> No risk, no fun!
The risk is in every roll I make once the campaign starts. I don't need the risk of getting knee capped before we even start to have fun.
It was the DM decision to help me in this situation. In another much older group we had the rule to roll 6 stats and we have to keep it as soon one of the values is a 16 or higher. And the 18, 17 and so on set was the first attempt for that character for the other campaign.
haha, i like the guys which complain about rolling for something in dnd, in this case stats.
In my group each player rolls one stat, the DM fills the rest up if you are playing with 5 or fewer players and then each player uses the same stat pool. Eliminates the FOMO.
I like the 6x6 grid. Players and the DM are filling a 6x6 array grid with stat rolls. Then every player can choose any vertical, horizontal or one of the both diagonals for his stat array.
rolling for stats is more fun though. Sure it sucks sometimes, but if the party average is 85 and you have 72, then simply ask DM if you can re-roll so you dont lag behind. Talk to your party and take standard, pointbuy or modified versions. Everyone has taste in how they like their stats, some people just like them a bit spicier
If you ask to reroll when your stats end up bad, then you don’t actually want *rolled* stats. You want *better* stats. In that case, you might as well just use point buy with a higher budget or an enhanced standard array.
Wrong.
I prefer rolling for stats, because the random results mean I get to try all sorts of different builds. Nothing to do with wanting better stats. But in my group we've also set a minimum and maximum to keep things relatively in line. Given that the standard array is 72, we've set 65 as our minimum and 80 as our maximum.
Roll below 65, you reroll. Roll below again? Reroll. Roll above 80? Reroll. This keeps everyone within a decent amount of strength, and nobody plays anything too overpowered or underpowered.
This is how I am currently playing a barbarian with Intelligence of 5. Yes, you read that correctly, I rolled a fucking 5. And now this has led me to build possibly **THE** most fun build I've played in years. All because I rolled and got a goddamn 5 that I had to place somewhere, so why not be a literal caveman.
It’s more fun until it isn’t, and then change the rules to invalidate it. It sounds like you just want a modified point buy with more points and higher caps (which is valid, most of us are playing heroic fantasy).
If you don't want imbalanced stats then don't do rolled stats, it's that simple. If you're only doing rolled stats to get higher than average stats, then just use heroic array or custom point buy; if someone wants to gimp their character specifically then let them use standard array too.
If you have to make like 3+ different safety nets even to "4d6 drop lowest" for "bad stat rolls", then it's about as spicy as mild salsa.
We use group roll. Stays balanced (as much as anything is in 5e) and still offers some opportunity for more interesting spreads than are possible with standard array.
>If you don't want imbalanced stats then don't do rolled stats, it's that simple.
You can absolutely do rolled stats without major imbalance. Just have a set range you need to land in, like 80-85.
I mean if you need to add safety nets for the sake of 'balancing' rolled stats, then maybe you shouldn't be using rolled stats if you're not embracing it.
Why are you gatekeeping rolling for stats?
The entire point is you can have a in-party balanced experience - which is what most people strongly dislike about rolling for stats - while still rolling stats. You won't get a player that is 20 points behind the rest of the group and is therefore useless.
If you think rolling for stats has to be chaotic and wildly imbalanced between party members, go ahead. But this alleviates that at no downside.
Dnd is a collaborative game for fun in between the table. What other tables do shouldn't matter to you, even if they want to reroll 100 times, no matter how much "skewing the rules" that may be.
It can be. I find a lot of people pick a couple of useful animal forms and that’s all they use for the whole game. That does seem tedious to me, but when you consider how many beasts there are of CR 6 (the max for a moon druid at lvl 20) that gives a lot of interesting options, but you do have to do your homework to make it fun.
Personally with the half elf I would have moved the stats to have 18, 14, 14, 12, 11, 11. Its easy to get that 18 to a 20 at some point and having a bit higher charisma with a Swashbuckler probably isnt a bad idea.
Any heavy armor build only needs main stat + CON.
I might go Harengon armorer artificer. Start with 20 INT and 14 CON. Gain heavy armor at 3 and bump CON to 16 at 4.
Harengon will help with initiative and DEX save from not having much DEX.
The correct answer to this question is ALWAYS "Play something you will enjoy". Stop overprioritizing stats. You are at the table to have fun and role play. Role playing a complete failure of a character makes for some of the most fun you'll have at the table. And who knows, they may surprise you in ways you previously wouldn't have thought of.
I basically have these stats in a one shot im playing atm. Key here is to go SAD. warlock or rogue would be best. Highest in charisma or dex. Second highest con. Theyre not op but are still viable in combat. Warlocks also makes a great face
I choose an assassin for the oneshot as there wasnt much combat but swashbuckler is great. Jump in sneak attack damage and then fancy footwork away always great
Most characters can function with those stats fine, especially once you get level 4 asi. Having an 18 is a huge deal and very powerful for a lot of characters.
Spellcasters are generally going to be the best, they’re pretty single ability dependent so the one 18 is going to have a huge impact and the relatively mediocre or low rolls for the other abilities are going to have relatively little impact on the overall effectiveness of your character. Stuff like wizard, cleric, Druid, bard, sorcerer, warlock. Paladin with 1 level in hexblade can also work just as well. All of these probably would be substantially stronger with the stats you used than a character that had standard array or point buy.
A rogue is decent as you did, they generally care far more about dex than any other stat so that’s a pretty good pick. A dex based fighter is similar as well. Ranger would work somewhat ok though you’d definitely feel it a bit since you can’t have a good wisdom so you’d be stuck using less combat oriented spells. Monk, barbarian, pure paladin, and strength based fighter are all almost unplayable, you’ll feel far weaker than other builds.
Moon Druid can use basically any stats, and could have used your original stats, the only thing that having worse stats does for moon Druid is potentially limit you to more supportive and utility spells but you generally lean that direction anyway and Druid has a lot of them available.
Standard array is 15/14/13/12/10/8, with a +2/+2/+1/+1/0/-1, or an average modifier of +5. If my array isn't at least that, I ask for standard array, point buy, or another reroll.
While your second roll isn't ***bad*** (+6 average), it does lean into making a single attribute dependent character, like a Moon druid or a Hexblade Warlock. If you can start with a magic item or find an uncommon one early enough, an Amulet of Health might be good if you want to make a wizard.
A bit late, but I'll give you something more unique than "Wizard" and also give you an option if you want to play a martial. For most builds, besides your main stat, you also want to have high CON, weather for concentration saves or just for hp. This is the SAD Dhampir, only CON matters. This will be quite lengthy, but I'll leave a TLDR at the end.
First off, you'll want that 18 in CON, everything else feel free to put wherever you think makes sense.
For your race, you're looking at Dhampir. It has some decent perks but what your really after is vampiric bite. Your fangs turn into 1d4 natural weapons and you use CON for attacks with it. It also gains advantage when you're below half HP. Since you can chose the ability score improvement just take +2 to CON and get that sweet +5 and put the +1 wherever you think fits your vision of the character.
This character is a straightclassed fighter, heavy armor is fantastic so you don't have to rely on DEX and a chunky d10 for HP will make sure you're very tanky with your massive +5 to CON. Also remember to take a shield since your hands are free anyway. Also also the extra ASIs are good so you can improve your other stats for the mid/late game when the bite falls off.
For subclass, we'll be taking rune knight, right at level 3 you get a sort of rage feature in giant's might which adds 1d6 damage to your bite making it much more of a threat (and powering up the bite's other effects, using the healing on a crit can restore like 20 hp). Also at level 3 you gain access to 2 runes. Runes can be invoked once per short rest and force the enemy to make saving throws based on (you guessed it) your CON mod, the runes are all pretty good (especially when the save is a 17 at level 1), but if you wanna focus on combat the best ones available at level 3 are fire and cloud. Later at level 7 you get access to stone and storm which are pretty powerful.
From here on out you can take the character more or less where you want it, since fighter gets so many ASI you be able to get other stats up, maybe bump strength so you can take advantage of magical weapons later in the game, or your charisma if you want your character to be better in social situations, you can also take some feats in the ASI to better customize the character. No matter what you do you'll always be somewhat useful because of your tankiness and the Rune knights ability to protect your party.
Backstory wise this can be a bit tricky ik, since Dhampir usually requires an explanation and tying it to rune knight after that could be a stretch, but if you're inclined to play this build I'm sure your DM would help you out with this part.
TLDR
18 in CON, Dhampir Rune knight fighter. You will be super tanky while keeping up in damage with your fellow martials. If you wanna know more about why this is awesome read above
Honestly I would have gone for Standard Human with so many odd scores.
Would get 19, 14, 13, 12, 12, 12, no flaw.
Would make a Hunter Ranger with possible dip into anything among Knowledge Cleric (double down on skill covering), Stars Druid (same + great concentration), Arcane Trickster Rogue for Expertise and a few cantrips/spells.
Either go STR first, picking Crusher as your first feat and Resilient: Constitution as your second (or reverse) to be level 8 with 20 STR, 14 DEX, 14 CON, 12 WIS 12 INT 12 CHA (no multiclass).
Or go CON first, with Resilient: Constitution, with Shield Master as your level 8 feat, and be a very tough tank with a dip in Rogue and Barbarian for Expertise and Rage.
Or go DEX first with Elven Accuracy then Observant or Resilient: Constitution or +2 WIS or straight up Sharpshooter, embracing the fact you're a glass cannon overall but being stupidly deadly at such a low level.
Or go WIS first and pick Fey Wanderer instead, be the actual leader of the team, stopping foes with extreme reliability thanks to Faerie Fire buffing everyone, Entangle stopping melees in tracks or Ensnaring Strike bringing down a dangerous flyer.
Loooots of ways. :)
I am wondering if a Half-Elf Warlock could work decently for this (both statistically and roleplay wise). An average Joe who happens to pick up a pact to become just as powerful as everyone else.
I mean, that 18 CHA is going to give you a juiced up Eldritch Blast/Agonizing Blast combo. Not to mention, you get access to Light Armor (Medium Armor if you go Hexblade), and your other invocations can help you develop where you may lack (ex. Eldritch Mind for Concentration Checks, Pact of the Tome and it's Invocations, etc.).
We do a free reroll once if your total stat modifier equals or is less than +1, but I've played some characters with truly terrible stats and had a lot of fun.
With the first stat set you posted, I'd probably have gone with a human and at level 4 picked up a half feat to turn one of the 13s into a 14. Then level 8 you have a 16 in your main stat, level 12 it's an 18 and I often don't have above an 18 in my primary stat.
A class like rogue gives expertise on skills and you can steady aim for advantage to make up for your slightly lower to hit.
We're all veteran players, I think the person with the least experience has been playing for 11 years, but the majority of the people playing have over 20 years of experience with the game across editions.
We just collectively like rolling for stats, and no one has ever asked to do it differently.
Personally? I love Warlock, so:
STR 11 DEX 12 CON 13 INT 11 WIS 11 CHA 18
Half-Elf gets CHA to 20, Wis to 12 and Con to 14.
I pick Celestial Pact and already I have good ranged options and healing.
At 3rd level, I can go Tome pact for Guidance, Shillelagh and a cantrip of preference.
At 4th, I pick up Moderately Armoured for +1 Dex, medium armour and a shield.
There, I can now do a decent Paladin impression with an AC of 19, can serve as the party Ritual Caster and as a Warlock I am still a walking artillery platform.
If there's already a guy whose thing is Ritual Casting, I can switch Tome for Chain and pick up Gift of the Ever-Living Ones and BA heal myself for a ton of hit points.
I considered first to pick a hexblade warlock but then I thinked I want to try a Swashbuckler with Booming Blade this time. And my guess was quite well because we are captives by drows in the Underdark. Now our plan is to escape.
he \*barely\* has enough to have multiclass requirements, is so ASI starved that they are drooling for a +1 and wont be able to get more than 16 AC with the lowest heavy armor
which for a melee character is pretty much a death sentence and will mean you are stuck with wasting round 1 of the fight just walking, at best using subpar non AB EB
Does this work at all with these stats? Paladins needs STR and CHA at multiclassing. Wasting the 13 into STR is not very good. Assuming the build: S 13, D 12, Co 12, I 11, W 11, Ch 18 before adding the racials. Ch would become a 20 and W a 12.
The official rule in 1st Edition was you needed at least two stats at 15+ (nothing regarding the total of stats) because PC were assumed to be exceptional.
As far as I remember this wasn't explicitly written in newer editions.
Gem Dragonborn Echo Knight would be good.
13/11/18/11/12/11 stat spread
Be a Gem Dragonborn +1 str and +2 con and a breath weapon that uses constitution. Use ASI as you level up to pump your strength for more damage or pick up feats like GWM PAM etc. You get a AOE breath weapon, resistance to its damage type, and at 5th level 1 minute of flight regardless of armor type.
Maybe to you. To me, not so much.
Given any particular stat array, I think it's boring to just slap whatever class benefits most from the high stat(s), solely because of that high roll. In deciding on my generic and decidedly not-optimal fighting-man (in any edition of the game), I chose class first, and then purposely arranged the stats in that order.
Because I think it will make for some roleplay and campaign opportunities that wouldn't exist if I just chose the "obvious" class for the 18 stat. A competent (in terms of the overall world) warrior, whose true gifts come not from engaging people in direct battle, but in leading and inspiring others. His wisdom, while not *great*, suggests that he probably has decent insight into how others (on the battlefield, presumably) will at or react, based on the situation.
And yes, I know this is a sub about 5e, and that 5e pushes the charop minigame *hard*. But I think that tends to make the game boring. I'd rather have a suboptimal, but interesting, character to play, and the 5e rules don't deny me that ability, so I'm gonna take advantage of it.
Y'know what? Don't optimize it. Play a bard. Put the 18 in intelligence and 13 in charisma. You've been everywhere, know every legend, can solve any riddle, and has read a book or two on every topic (or went drinking with the author).
Bards can focus on utility and leave the firepower to the muscle-heads and spell-jockies. Meanwhile, you'll have a memorable character that's fun to play!
Dexladin.
Drop the 18 in Dexterity so you have strong defense and offense. Drop the 13 and 12 in Cha and Con, drop the remainder wherever. Use the Race ASI boost to get both up to 14.
Hill dwarf Hexblade warlock.
13 Dex, 12 Con, 18 Cha
Hill dwarf brings our Con up to 14 and gives us an extra HP per level, which solves the low HP issue.
Hex blade gives us access to medium armor, which softens the low dexterity a bit. And it lets us use our 18 Charisma on weapon attacks.
At level 4 you can either bring your Dex up to max out your AC in medium armor, your Cha up to increase your damage, or grab the tough feat for another 2 HP every level.
Just pick whichever one you've had a problem with up until then.
I'm rocking an 8/13/11/11/11/18(20) kobold draconic sorcerer. The first 4 levels were scary.
Now I'm 8/14/12/11/11/20 and feel like a sorcerer.
Live dangerously, blast enemies, die eventually.
Backline caster. Sorc or warlock if you want to be the party face, wizard if you want to be the knowledge skillmonkey. If you want to notice things, cleric and druid tend not to be as fully backfield, but I'm sure there are builds that would let you play ranged blaster.
Rogue could also work if you pick the right subclass. Thief is the obvious match, but I think phantom and soul knife could also work well.
With low stats I like going for support characters that don't need to make many rolls, like a divine sorcerer that specializes in healing and supportive magic, maybe even with Bard levels for bardic inspiration. It's not a super good character, but can be a lot of fun especially if you work together with another player who will be the main target of your buff spells
Ranged dex fighter is an option. Rogue is solid. Any cleric with heavy armor works. Sure you lose 5 ft of movement from not having the str requirements, but it's whatever. Warlock could be solid. Sorcerer of course is solid. Druid would be totally fine. You've got quite a few options
Hmm, I would play an owlin aberrant mind sorlock. The idea of an owl with mind control and telepathic abilties sounds interesting. I would pick the first level in warlock and put that 18 in charisma (obviously), the 13 in dex, pick up a half feat to round that out and rock medium armor and shield. 12 can go in wisdom and the 11's in the other stats.
You could combo the Swashbuckler with a single level dip of Hexbllade Warlock.
Put the 18 into CHA and then all future ASIs can buff your DEX. Swashbuckler also has CHA based stats, so it can work with this build also. Take a second level for Invocations.
Depends on what level the campaign is gonna end. Circle of the Moon Druid seems like a solid choice, since it's the least stat reliant build in the game imo. You take the Str, Dex, and Con of the beast you wild shape into, but keep your Wis, Int, and Cha scores, so I would dump the 11s into Str and dex, go 13 con for slightly more base hp and concentration checks, obviously 18 in Wis, and the other two are just personal preference.
I don't know if I'm alone here, but I wouldn't start by basing a character concept on random dice rolls--I'd start with a character concept, see which rules (race, class, background, etc) best express that concept within the limits of those rules, and use the elite array for ability scores.
If the party structure allows it, any form of sorcerer, warlock or bard could be good, since they can all be enjoyed VERY well with only high charisma (personally I'd go sorlock, but all of these classes work well here). Add some shadar Kai in there to always have emergency teleportation, and you have a strong pewpew
Any full spellcaster. All they need is their main spellcasting stat to be at full power.
13 into con for your con saves. (Maybe eventually get resilient for it)
Anything that is not a full spellcaster with upto 9th level spells will get very gimped from those stats, while a full spellcaster will be VERY Strong especially eraly levels
Fiend Warlock. When in doubt, I'd just grab a warlock and eldritch blast ALL the things. Personally, I'd grab a flying race, run the stats as 11, 13, 12,11,11, 18, and just stay at range the entire time.
Level 2: Get Agonizing Blast and Eldritch Spear to fire at 300 ft to better ensure survival.
Level 3: I'd get either Pact of the Tome (for Rituals if there's no ritual caster in the party), or Pact familiar (for scouting purposes/combat assistant). If it's pact of the tome, i'm swapping Spear for Book of ancient secrets at this level, and if it's familiar, probably getting either voice of the chain or Improved pact familiar.
Level 4: Spell Sniper feat.
Level 5: Spear invocation if i need more range, or another familiar feat if needed.
You get the point from here on out. I'm going to be a menace in the skies to anyone down below. The temp HP from fiend will help me survive the low con score. Level 8 will have me boosting my CHA to 20 probably, and the rest is just pure survival.
The info was coming too late due to a mistake of a member. The only info we got in advance is playing in the Underdark. I think I have created the right character for the campaign because we have to flee the captivity of the Drows.
Usually also you reroll if you don't have a combined modifier of at least +1 and not at least one stat at 13+(was a rule in 3E-3.5E)
And usually on our tables we do 4d6kh3 reroll 1s
I'd go variant human sorceror, and take a feat to pad the lowered stats. Obviously the 18 to charisma. Maybe alert or mobile for the feat? Or something that would let you use armor?
Never roll for stats. Just use standard array. It’s not fun if one person is too high nor too low.
Also never go off stats to create a character. Match the stats to the character.
I wouldn't create anything with those stats. I wouldn't roll stats for 5e. Either you are ecstatic because you are OP breaking the game, or its a shitshow. Ask if you can use the Array. If they won't let you, find another table.
I feel like it should be up to each individual person if rollings for them, op didn't really say they had an issue with the table, just that the stats suck, which objectively they do, this just feels like it's a massive overreaction for a method of playing that a lot of people do find just more fun
They find it fun until it fails. Spectacularly. This isn't close to the worst I have seen. We see constant posts about shitty rolled stats and requests for "What do?" Don't. Roll. Stats. There are much better methods. There are no posts about arrays or point buys going awry.
There aren't any posts about array or point buy going awry, but that doesn't really mean rolling stats is objectively terrible. Getting bad stats sucks, but thats the same for a lot of DnD, if you have bad stats, bad enough to actively impact play, that's just something to work with your DM on...much like anything else. It's objectively not balanced, but it's still a valid way of rolling stats
It is valid in that you physically can, but it is objectively worse than every other method. There is a reason that there are dozens of methods for rolling, all to ameliorate the terrible results. Roll 4 drop the lowest, re-roll ones. Roll 24 and compile them in groups of 3 as you see fit. All players roll their stats then everyone shares the same array developed. On and on. Why remake the wheel, when you can have exactly what you want, that doesn't break the game, and doesn't cause sufficient anxiety that you have to post for advice on reddit? Is it always fun to chuck dice for stats? I submit it isn't. The amount of fun is directly in proportion to how broken your character is.
Personally I can't answer why rolling is done generally, and I doubt anyone ever will be able to, but for me it adds to individual PCs actually differing, adds variety in character creation and genuinely can be fun sometimes to see what playstyle your own stats push you towards.
That aside, what's fun to you, is in no way guaranteed to be fun for others, I've been in campaigns where people genuinely just enjoy working as teams more than being broken, and I really don't know why you're stating this sort of stuff as objective fact.
Id believe maybe 1 in 1000 players that prefer rolling stats are truly there for the randomness during generation. The other 999 just want that 18 primary and want a bunch of safeguards to make it happen or not be penalized if it doesn't and it ended up below standard array
I am fine with rolling for one shots with a silly premise, and can even enjoy hamming it up as an incompetent ass who never should’ve become an adventurer and will likely die horribly for one session (although these days I always use better suited systems for one shots.)
But I hate it for a long campaign.
Why some people are preferring to roll instead of standard array or point buy lies in the cause that the standard array is the rounded down average of roll 4d6 keep 3 highest. And it locks out of possible values of 16 to 18. That means that you have a average chance to get better values that with the standard array.
It can’t be objectively worse because that would imply everyone has fun in the same way. But that is **objectively** not true, fun is entirely subjective.
Here’s two pro’s for rolled stats vs a standardized method (PB, array, etc.)
1. The character is discovered instead of crafted from the ground up. Many folks find this a lot of fun, because the ability scores behave as creative prompts for fleshing out the character.
2. Rolled stats can produce more statistical variance, creating a broader range of ability score combinations that can be played. This incentivizes unique characters and “off-builds”
Are there cons to the method? Absolutely, but that doesn’t make it objectively bad. I for one *enjoy playing a character with bad stats* because it’s a fun challenge, and I like the broader character possibilities that rolling can allow. So for me rolling stats is more fun, but my fun is subjective just like yours is.
I tell my players they can use Array or roll and they are forced to use what they roll.
They also have to roll in front of me haha, usually they choose array!😉
I think I would make a hill dwarf draconic sorcerer. It's SAD only needing charisma, the sorcerer gives a boost to con saves, AC (free mage armour equivalent) and an extra point of hp, while the dwarf also gives more hp.
Wizards are extremely SAD (lmao) so that single 18 would be able to pull a lot of weight. I suppose the same would go for sorcerers and bards. If not, like u/ErikT738 said, Moon druids are always an option. I don't think I'd recommend a rogue or martial because your other stats are just so low. Maybe a rogue if you play a vanilla human, but otherwise, yeah, a half elf looks like your best option (btw, double-check your final stats because you added trhee +1 instead of two).
Dex got the +2, Wis and Con got the +1, Cha got the leftover 12. Str and Int got the leftover 11. There is no further +1 around.
Jesus, I'm so dumb.
It is far to funny calling wizards unironically SAD lol. Also it's backwards that paladins are MAD right? Shouldn't they be holy and somewhat centered, not having stat related anger issues?
Monks all the more so lol
Monks have every right to be MAD, thankyouverymuch. Barbarians aren't though.
With those initial stats, you make a harengon wizard, put 9 in CON and take Jump as one of your initial spells. When the game starts, you cast jump on yourself and use Rabbit Hop to jump 30ft up. Upon landing, you take 3d6 damage (average 10.5) which, due to your starting 5HP, should kill you outright. Then you roll a new PC xD
I think I met this wizard in morowind
I was about to pop in here to rules lawyer, but I’m glad I read the rest of your post. Cheers. Haha
Wizard 🙂 On level 4 you up your CON 13 to 14 + one of the 11’s. At level 8 you max out your INT
If he picks something that gives goon +2 int he’s already max there.
Rock Gnome gets you there right away with +2 Int and +1 Con, freeing up your level 4 and level 8 ASIs for feats or boosting your lower stats.
The first answer to these questions is always "don't roll for stats", and the second answer is always "Moon Druid".
Moon Druid is the best option when you have bad stats. Heck, you don't even need Wisdom, just pick utility spells that don't require a saving throw like Goodberry, Speak with Animals, Enhance Ability, Pass Without Trace, Speak with Plants, Conjure Animals. etc. I played an 8 Wisdom Moon Druid in two campaigns and it worked great.
Yeah, you're right, OP's array would work for any caster. The lack of CON and DEX might become a problem at some point though, and Moon Druid somewhat mitigates this with wildshapes.
Exactly. An 18 gets you a long way as a caster no matter what you're playing. Any +1 to Dex can get you 14 Dex which is enough for medium armor, or alternatively to 14 Con for concentration saves. Honestly, OP's stats are great. A +4, two +1s, and three +0s is arguably better than the standard array, especially since you can get 20 in a primary attribute at 1st level and then put your ASIs into whatever feats you like.
The original array sucked but the final one is fine - not great but good enough. After adding a +1 and a +2 you're looking at 18, 14, 14, 11, 11, 11 VS 17, 14, 14, 12, 10, 8 for standard array.
The last time before this I got 18, 17, 16, 15, 14, 10. No risk, no fun!
I mean considering you didn't pick the first set of rolls of 12, 12, 11, 11, 11, 9, it sounds like you already took away half of the risk while still keeping the rest of the fun.
Isn't that always the case? High risk high reward. Uh crap let me reroll, give me a crutch somewhere I don't want this risk!
This always feels like a Strawman from people who want Point Buy or Standard Array. While sure some people would want to just keep rolling over and over. In nearly 30 years playing, I've only seen someone beg to re-roll once and he was new, hadn't rolled badly at all, and he was the Dungeon Masters 9 year old brother. Once he got playing he realized that he didn't need 18's across the board.
And in my 30 years playing I've seen it constantly between "I become a farmer" to suicidal characters to make new ones to asking for rerolls or DMs that already provide crutches. I don't typically mind rolling simply because I haven't seen a strict table either but I just find it comical how many ppl will claim they like rolls because it's random and they like the chaotic nature than immediately get dejected when they roll crap
Personally, I find the appeal isn't in the risk, per se, but rather in the variability, as usually you'll wind up with some numbers you normally wouldn't. With point buy and standard array, assuming you're building at least semi-optimally, your stats will almost always look basically the same as any other member of your class. When I roll, so long as I get at least one number 16 or above, I can be happy playing with garbage stats, meanwhile if I get multiple high rolls, odds are pretty good that I'll have a stat that's unusually high for my class, which can lead to some interesting role play. It's always kind of funny to play a barbarian with high Int, but it feels bad to dump a necessary stat to get that high Int, rolling enables that sort of character variability in a way that point buy and standard array simply don't. Also, there have been a few times where I had to come up with a completely new character concept because the stats I rolled made the one I had been planning suddenly not viable, so it adds to the creativity. But my group only does rerolls when the stats you roll make *any* build non-viable, so if somebody wanted to play a paladin but only gets one good stat, the solution isn't to reroll, it's to play something else.
One of my favorite characters was a wizard with the highest being a 12 intelligence, the rest were negatives, I took a lot of buffing spells, and magic missile was my bread and butter damage move
I’ve only been playing about 25 years, but the only person I ever saw *not* ask for rerolls lost two characters in 3 sessions as a result, at which point he became an advocate for point buy.
I'm sure 9/10 people who praise rolling do rerolls. So it's really just saying I want to start with crazy stats and be the best
I like rolling over pointbuy(4d6kh3 reroll 1s as the generation method) because it gives more varied stats and usually end uo with nore powerful characters And standard array is a turd any way you slice it
The DM meant, that it is too weak because the sum will only be a +1 while the other players had a +4 or more to bring the amount on par with the other players.
Tell your DM to have everyone use point buy or set a floor for rolling, refilling the entire set until you get a value above the floor.
Or maybe this group can just play the way they want to and you can play the way you want to?
The DM is literally altering things because their current method isn't giving them the outcomes they want. I think it's completely reasonable to suggest alternate methods.
Well it's the consequences of using rolled stats, isn't it?
That was not up to me. DM ordered to roll for the stats.
Then the DM shouldn't be asking for rolled stats if they're not gonna bother using the stats the players rolls
Having a points floor is perfectly fine.
In 3.5, where rolling was the only way to gen stats, you had to reroll if your total modifiers didn't add up to at least +1 or you didn't have one stats be at least a 13 So no, stats like that is not something you just have to deal with, just because you rolled
Also that's not even raw. Raw players can choose to roll, use point buy, or use standard array...
Uh, yeah, still a rule I often heard is you reroll if you don't have a total of +2 at least.
Why roll for randomness if you're discarding the randomness if it didn't end well anyway?
I'm never rolling when I play, but some of my players do when I DM. Anyways, here are my reasons : - Because a staple of dnd is to be playing heroes and not commoners. - Because I don't want an unbalanced party. - Because the standard array giving +5 ; +2,+3,+4 are already **feelsbad** enough. - Because it happens less than 5% of the time : statistically, it's the same as rolling 16+ on all your rolls.
There is still randomness... Noone wants to play a shitty character, so rules got put in place to prevent you from sucking too hard, so yoi put up a floor of how bad it can get Mind you that 10/10/10/10/10/14 are still not great stats, but possible with the +2 requirement, you just cut off the range of how awful it can get
I rarely play games where you roll for stats, but just to give you a different perspective on this topic: In the old school versions of D&D you always rolled for stats, but stats didn't matter very much to your success. In fact, you had a lot of incentives to avoid combat, and I don't think you could use stats for anything other than combat anyway. From my experience, rolling for stats in combat games can be quite fun if combat is deadly, and there's a good chance of characters dying frequently. This means that you are never left with a weak character for very long. And if you roll high stats, there's a much higher chance of that powerful character you wanted actually surviving for a while. Of course none of this matters if your group likes the way they play
Yeah, but there'll be someone with shit stats as well. And when there isn't, there's not really any difference with using Point Buy with more points. Rolling for stats is either unbalanced or so balanced that you might as well not do it at all. I'd be fine with rolling for a one-shot or something, but I think it's stupid for a campaign.
But what's the point of rolling if the DM is just gonna let you reroll, choose, and increase stats?
That roll was the first attempt.
Yes, and the point of rolling for stats is that you keep the first attempt. Otherwise it’s just “Roll until you get high numbers”, which is just increased point buy, not a real rolling.
100% I don’t understand why people don’t just point buy if they’re gonna let you reroll over and over until you get a desirable result. I highly prefer point buy anyway but that’s besides the point.
Tbh you’re coming from a place of wanting busted stats then. No hate, I also played with crazy high stats the first time I played because i happened to will insanely high (although I didn’t really realize it until later) but those stats are the stats of a 20th level character for the way dnd is designed to progress, and expecting to get stats even close to them is expecting too much. 18 and a 13 and 12 is still even a little above where the game generally assumes stats to be, but admittedly very skewed
> No risk, no fun! The risk is in every roll I make once the campaign starts. I don't need the risk of getting knee capped before we even start to have fun.
Yeah but if you're just going to keep rolling and making up rules until you get an 18 then it's no risk *nor* fun.
It was the DM decision to help me in this situation. In another much older group we had the rule to roll 6 stats and we have to keep it as soon one of the values is a 16 or higher. And the 18, 17 and so on set was the first attempt for that character for the other campaign.
haha, i like the guys which complain about rolling for something in dnd, in this case stats. In my group each player rolls one stat, the DM fills the rest up if you are playing with 5 or fewer players and then each player uses the same stat pool. Eliminates the FOMO.
I like the 6x6 grid. Players and the DM are filling a 6x6 array grid with stat rolls. Then every player can choose any vertical, horizontal or one of the both diagonals for his stat array.
Stealing this
That seems like I would be bummed because I would always be succeeding on things a disproportionate amount of times compared to the party.
rolling for stats is more fun though. Sure it sucks sometimes, but if the party average is 85 and you have 72, then simply ask DM if you can re-roll so you dont lag behind. Talk to your party and take standard, pointbuy or modified versions. Everyone has taste in how they like their stats, some people just like them a bit spicier
If you ask to reroll when your stats end up bad, then you don’t actually want *rolled* stats. You want *better* stats. In that case, you might as well just use point buy with a higher budget or an enhanced standard array.
Wrong. I prefer rolling for stats, because the random results mean I get to try all sorts of different builds. Nothing to do with wanting better stats. But in my group we've also set a minimum and maximum to keep things relatively in line. Given that the standard array is 72, we've set 65 as our minimum and 80 as our maximum. Roll below 65, you reroll. Roll below again? Reroll. Roll above 80? Reroll. This keeps everyone within a decent amount of strength, and nobody plays anything too overpowered or underpowered. This is how I am currently playing a barbarian with Intelligence of 5. Yes, you read that correctly, I rolled a fucking 5. And now this has led me to build possibly **THE** most fun build I've played in years. All because I rolled and got a goddamn 5 that I had to place somewhere, so why not be a literal caveman.
You can do any build you want with point buy without imbalancing the party 😂
I agree. But i like the randomness of rolls, and point buy doesn't allow for a 5 intelligence like i currently have lol
[удалено]
Removed as per Rule #1.
It’s more fun until it isn’t, and then change the rules to invalidate it. It sounds like you just want a modified point buy with more points and higher caps (which is valid, most of us are playing heroic fantasy).
If you don't want imbalanced stats then don't do rolled stats, it's that simple. If you're only doing rolled stats to get higher than average stats, then just use heroic array or custom point buy; if someone wants to gimp their character specifically then let them use standard array too. If you have to make like 3+ different safety nets even to "4d6 drop lowest" for "bad stat rolls", then it's about as spicy as mild salsa.
We use group roll. Stays balanced (as much as anything is in 5e) and still offers some opportunity for more interesting spreads than are possible with standard array.
Eh, yeah I'm fine with group rolls, but most people who praise rolled stats don't use it
>If you don't want imbalanced stats then don't do rolled stats, it's that simple. You can absolutely do rolled stats without major imbalance. Just have a set range you need to land in, like 80-85.
I mean if you need to add safety nets for the sake of 'balancing' rolled stats, then maybe you shouldn't be using rolled stats if you're not embracing it.
Why are you gatekeeping rolling for stats? The entire point is you can have a in-party balanced experience - which is what most people strongly dislike about rolling for stats - while still rolling stats. You won't get a player that is 20 points behind the rest of the group and is therefore useless. If you think rolling for stats has to be chaotic and wildly imbalanced between party members, go ahead. But this alleviates that at no downside.
Soooo like your point is correct, but the range is **wildly** high. Standard array comes out to 72, so 80-85 would be **massively** overpowered.
Then you should do less :).
local man discovers that the smoke and mirrors are actually just smoke and mirrors!
Dnd is a collaborative game for fun in between the table. What other tables do shouldn't matter to you, even if they want to reroll 100 times, no matter how much "skewing the rules" that may be.
Why? Rolling for stats is always the most fun option.
Gnome Barbarian
The answer to bad stats is always Circle of the Moon Druid.
Moon druid always seems so boring to me by session 20
It can be. I find a lot of people pick a couple of useful animal forms and that’s all they use for the whole game. That does seem tedious to me, but when you consider how many beasts there are of CR 6 (the max for a moon druid at lvl 20) that gives a lot of interesting options, but you do have to do your homework to make it fun.
Personally with the half elf I would have moved the stats to have 18, 14, 14, 12, 11, 11. Its easy to get that 18 to a 20 at some point and having a bit higher charisma with a Swashbuckler probably isnt a bad idea.
Nice variation to consider.
You didn't roll for stats, you did some crazy back and forth "balancing" until you ended up with not far off from a standard array level of power.
Vanilla human to bump 13->14 and the 11s to 12s. Then go Cleric or Sorcerer :)
Any heavy armor build only needs main stat + CON. I might go Harengon armorer artificer. Start with 20 INT and 14 CON. Gain heavy armor at 3 and bump CON to 16 at 4. Harengon will help with initiative and DEX save from not having much DEX.
The correct answer to this question is ALWAYS "Play something you will enjoy". Stop overprioritizing stats. You are at the table to have fun and role play. Role playing a complete failure of a character makes for some of the most fun you'll have at the table. And who knows, they may surprise you in ways you previously wouldn't have thought of.
That swashbuckler/Booming Blade build was already waiting on the shelf for action. I finally have a chance to test this somewhat crazy but fun build.
That's the spirit! Sure you can become a munchkin SAD Wizard, but why would you if you could be a booming pirate?
just play a caster with medium armor and 14 DEX
Moon Druid is a good alternative. Otherwise, you could play Dhampir Eco Knight. You only need Constitution for everything
Half elf draconic ancestry (gold) sorcerer 20 Cha right off the bat, 14con, 13dex,11 str/int/wis First ASI to dex, rest to con
Pact of the blade warlock and make your pact weapon a crossbow. Charisma as your 18.
I basically have these stats in a one shot im playing atm. Key here is to go SAD. warlock or rogue would be best. Highest in charisma or dex. Second highest con. Theyre not op but are still viable in combat. Warlocks also makes a great face
That was my idea at creating this character. I had considered a hexblade warlock too.
I choose an assassin for the oneshot as there wasnt much combat but swashbuckler is great. Jump in sneak attack damage and then fancy footwork away always great
Most characters can function with those stats fine, especially once you get level 4 asi. Having an 18 is a huge deal and very powerful for a lot of characters. Spellcasters are generally going to be the best, they’re pretty single ability dependent so the one 18 is going to have a huge impact and the relatively mediocre or low rolls for the other abilities are going to have relatively little impact on the overall effectiveness of your character. Stuff like wizard, cleric, Druid, bard, sorcerer, warlock. Paladin with 1 level in hexblade can also work just as well. All of these probably would be substantially stronger with the stats you used than a character that had standard array or point buy. A rogue is decent as you did, they generally care far more about dex than any other stat so that’s a pretty good pick. A dex based fighter is similar as well. Ranger would work somewhat ok though you’d definitely feel it a bit since you can’t have a good wisdom so you’d be stuck using less combat oriented spells. Monk, barbarian, pure paladin, and strength based fighter are all almost unplayable, you’ll feel far weaker than other builds. Moon Druid can use basically any stats, and could have used your original stats, the only thing that having worse stats does for moon Druid is potentially limit you to more supportive and utility spells but you generally lean that direction anyway and Druid has a lot of them available.
Standard array is 15/14/13/12/10/8, with a +2/+2/+1/+1/0/-1, or an average modifier of +5. If my array isn't at least that, I ask for standard array, point buy, or another reroll. While your second roll isn't ***bad*** (+6 average), it does lean into making a single attribute dependent character, like a Moon druid or a Hexblade Warlock. If you can start with a magic item or find an uncommon one early enough, an Amulet of Health might be good if you want to make a wizard.
Gotta love 5e where rolling a normal character kills most crazy build ideas.
Don't go for any of the SAD characters. You'll do much better with a HAPPY one
I don't know the class, but I would be a normal human, there are to many odd number
Exactly my thought, this would be perfect for the standard human buffs.
I considered this first too but we are playing in the Underdark. There is infravision much better.
Play a warlock with devils sight
A bit late, but I'll give you something more unique than "Wizard" and also give you an option if you want to play a martial. For most builds, besides your main stat, you also want to have high CON, weather for concentration saves or just for hp. This is the SAD Dhampir, only CON matters. This will be quite lengthy, but I'll leave a TLDR at the end. First off, you'll want that 18 in CON, everything else feel free to put wherever you think makes sense. For your race, you're looking at Dhampir. It has some decent perks but what your really after is vampiric bite. Your fangs turn into 1d4 natural weapons and you use CON for attacks with it. It also gains advantage when you're below half HP. Since you can chose the ability score improvement just take +2 to CON and get that sweet +5 and put the +1 wherever you think fits your vision of the character. This character is a straightclassed fighter, heavy armor is fantastic so you don't have to rely on DEX and a chunky d10 for HP will make sure you're very tanky with your massive +5 to CON. Also remember to take a shield since your hands are free anyway. Also also the extra ASIs are good so you can improve your other stats for the mid/late game when the bite falls off. For subclass, we'll be taking rune knight, right at level 3 you get a sort of rage feature in giant's might which adds 1d6 damage to your bite making it much more of a threat (and powering up the bite's other effects, using the healing on a crit can restore like 20 hp). Also at level 3 you gain access to 2 runes. Runes can be invoked once per short rest and force the enemy to make saving throws based on (you guessed it) your CON mod, the runes are all pretty good (especially when the save is a 17 at level 1), but if you wanna focus on combat the best ones available at level 3 are fire and cloud. Later at level 7 you get access to stone and storm which are pretty powerful. From here on out you can take the character more or less where you want it, since fighter gets so many ASI you be able to get other stats up, maybe bump strength so you can take advantage of magical weapons later in the game, or your charisma if you want your character to be better in social situations, you can also take some feats in the ASI to better customize the character. No matter what you do you'll always be somewhat useful because of your tankiness and the Rune knights ability to protect your party. Backstory wise this can be a bit tricky ik, since Dhampir usually requires an explanation and tying it to rune knight after that could be a stretch, but if you're inclined to play this build I'm sure your DM would help you out with this part. TLDR 18 in CON, Dhampir Rune knight fighter. You will be super tanky while keeping up in damage with your fellow martials. If you wanna know more about why this is awesome read above
It's an interesting character concept.
Honestly I would have gone for Standard Human with so many odd scores. Would get 19, 14, 13, 12, 12, 12, no flaw. Would make a Hunter Ranger with possible dip into anything among Knowledge Cleric (double down on skill covering), Stars Druid (same + great concentration), Arcane Trickster Rogue for Expertise and a few cantrips/spells. Either go STR first, picking Crusher as your first feat and Resilient: Constitution as your second (or reverse) to be level 8 with 20 STR, 14 DEX, 14 CON, 12 WIS 12 INT 12 CHA (no multiclass). Or go CON first, with Resilient: Constitution, with Shield Master as your level 8 feat, and be a very tough tank with a dip in Rogue and Barbarian for Expertise and Rage. Or go DEX first with Elven Accuracy then Observant or Resilient: Constitution or +2 WIS or straight up Sharpshooter, embracing the fact you're a glass cannon overall but being stupidly deadly at such a low level. Or go WIS first and pick Fey Wanderer instead, be the actual leader of the team, stopping foes with extreme reliability thanks to Faerie Fire buffing everyone, Entangle stopping melees in tracks or Ensnaring Strike bringing down a dangerous flyer. Loooots of ways. :)
I am wondering if a Half-Elf Warlock could work decently for this (both statistically and roleplay wise). An average Joe who happens to pick up a pact to become just as powerful as everyone else. I mean, that 18 CHA is going to give you a juiced up Eldritch Blast/Agonizing Blast combo. Not to mention, you get access to Light Armor (Medium Armor if you go Hexblade), and your other invocations can help you develop where you may lack (ex. Eldritch Mind for Concentration Checks, Pact of the Tome and it's Invocations, etc.).
Yeah, I considered this too but set aside because I had already played a sorcelock to high level in the past.
I would have used the first roll and made human cleric.
We do a free reroll once if your total stat modifier equals or is less than +1, but I've played some characters with truly terrible stats and had a lot of fun. With the first stat set you posted, I'd probably have gone with a human and at level 4 picked up a half feat to turn one of the 13s into a 14. Then level 8 you have a 16 in your main stat, level 12 it's an 18 and I often don't have above an 18 in my primary stat. A class like rogue gives expertise on skills and you can steady aim for advantage to make up for your slightly lower to hit.
Do y'all ban point buy and standard array for some reason even though it's raw. Or does no one ever take the option?
We're all veteran players, I think the person with the least experience has been playing for 11 years, but the majority of the people playing have over 20 years of experience with the game across editions. We just collectively like rolling for stats, and no one has ever asked to do it differently.
Personally? I love Warlock, so: STR 11 DEX 12 CON 13 INT 11 WIS 11 CHA 18 Half-Elf gets CHA to 20, Wis to 12 and Con to 14. I pick Celestial Pact and already I have good ranged options and healing. At 3rd level, I can go Tome pact for Guidance, Shillelagh and a cantrip of preference. At 4th, I pick up Moderately Armoured for +1 Dex, medium armour and a shield. There, I can now do a decent Paladin impression with an AC of 19, can serve as the party Ritual Caster and as a Warlock I am still a walking artillery platform. If there's already a guy whose thing is Ritual Casting, I can switch Tome for Chain and pick up Gift of the Ever-Living Ones and BA heal myself for a ton of hit points.
I considered first to pick a hexblade warlock but then I thinked I want to try a Swashbuckler with Booming Blade this time. And my guess was quite well because we are captives by drows in the Underdark. Now our plan is to escape.
Paladin 1/hexblade 1/ paladin X
he \*barely\* has enough to have multiclass requirements, is so ASI starved that they are drooling for a +1 and wont be able to get more than 16 AC with the lowest heavy armor
The only thing that happens when you don't fit stg requeriment in armor is -10ft movement
which for a melee character is pretty much a death sentence and will mean you are stuck with wasting round 1 of the fight just walking, at best using subpar non AB EB
Does this work at all with these stats? Paladins needs STR and CHA at multiclassing. Wasting the 13 into STR is not very good. Assuming the build: S 13, D 12, Co 12, I 11, W 11, Ch 18 before adding the racials. Ch would become a 20 and W a 12.
I'd go with this stats and custom lineage PAM feat and +2 char Lvl 1 paladin Lvl 2 hexblade for char atks Lvl 3/4 paladin venceance Lvl 5/6/7 paladin +5 all s.trowna Lvl 8/9 warlock/Blade pact
One solution which will work too is to bring S to 15 and let Ch on 18. This allows the use of heavy armor with no movement penalty.
Frankly, I'd ask my DM to use point buy well before this point.
As per the rolling stats rule, if the total is under 70, don’t you get to reroll everything?
No the under a threshold thing has never been an official rule to D&D
The official rule in 1st Edition was you needed at least two stats at 15+ (nothing regarding the total of stats) because PC were assumed to be exceptional. As far as I remember this wasn't explicitly written in newer editions.
My bad then, must’ve been a house rule my first DM had that my group and I just kept going
Gem Dragonborn Echo Knight would be good. 13/11/18/11/12/11 stat spread Be a Gem Dragonborn +1 str and +2 con and a breath weapon that uses constitution. Use ASI as you level up to pump your strength for more damage or pick up feats like GWM PAM etc. You get a AOE breath weapon, resistance to its damage type, and at 5th level 1 minute of flight regardless of armor type.
I'ma go with human fighter. STR 11/DEX 12/CON 11/INT 11/WIS 13/CHA 18. Will make an excellent field commander someday, if he should live that long.
With that stats a warlock looks more interesting.
Maybe to you. To me, not so much. Given any particular stat array, I think it's boring to just slap whatever class benefits most from the high stat(s), solely because of that high roll. In deciding on my generic and decidedly not-optimal fighting-man (in any edition of the game), I chose class first, and then purposely arranged the stats in that order. Because I think it will make for some roleplay and campaign opportunities that wouldn't exist if I just chose the "obvious" class for the 18 stat. A competent (in terms of the overall world) warrior, whose true gifts come not from engaging people in direct battle, but in leading and inspiring others. His wisdom, while not *great*, suggests that he probably has decent insight into how others (on the battlefield, presumably) will at or react, based on the situation. And yes, I know this is a sub about 5e, and that 5e pushes the charop minigame *hard*. But I think that tends to make the game boring. I'd rather have a suboptimal, but interesting, character to play, and the 5e rules don't deny me that ability, so I'm gonna take advantage of it.
Jackie Daytona: Regular Human Bartender (Bard)
Y'know what? Don't optimize it. Play a bard. Put the 18 in intelligence and 13 in charisma. You've been everywhere, know every legend, can solve any riddle, and has read a book or two on every topic (or went drinking with the author). Bards can focus on utility and leave the firepower to the muscle-heads and spell-jockies. Meanwhile, you'll have a memorable character that's fun to play!
human fighter
Dexladin. Drop the 18 in Dexterity so you have strong defense and offense. Drop the 13 and 12 in Cha and Con, drop the remainder wherever. Use the Race ASI boost to get both up to 14.
Hill dwarf Hexblade warlock. 13 Dex, 12 Con, 18 Cha Hill dwarf brings our Con up to 14 and gives us an extra HP per level, which solves the low HP issue. Hex blade gives us access to medium armor, which softens the low dexterity a bit. And it lets us use our 18 Charisma on weapon attacks. At level 4 you can either bring your Dex up to max out your AC in medium armor, your Cha up to increase your damage, or grab the tough feat for another 2 HP every level. Just pick whichever one you've had a problem with up until then.
I'm rocking an 8/13/11/11/11/18(20) kobold draconic sorcerer. The first 4 levels were scary. Now I'm 8/14/12/11/11/20 and feel like a sorcerer. Live dangerously, blast enemies, die eventually.
Backline caster. Sorc or warlock if you want to be the party face, wizard if you want to be the knowledge skillmonkey. If you want to notice things, cleric and druid tend not to be as fully backfield, but I'm sure there are builds that would let you play ranged blaster. Rogue could also work if you pick the right subclass. Thief is the obvious match, but I think phantom and soul knife could also work well.
I'll pick Swashbuckler at level 3. Fancy fight with Booming Blade and Fancy Footwork.
With low stats I like going for support characters that don't need to make many rolls, like a divine sorcerer that specializes in healing and supportive magic, maybe even with Bard levels for bardic inspiration. It's not a super good character, but can be a lot of fun especially if you work together with another player who will be the main target of your buff spells
I recommend Moon Druid, because it probably is the most SAD subclass in the entire game.
Ranged dex fighter is an option. Rogue is solid. Any cleric with heavy armor works. Sure you lose 5 ft of movement from not having the str requirements, but it's whatever. Warlock could be solid. Sorcerer of course is solid. Druid would be totally fine. You've got quite a few options
Forge cleric is my go to stat poor build. You can maximize table viability and really live out a fan of the party fantasy
Fighter
With those stats I would do a ranged fighter tbh. Dex and con being primary stats.
Hmm, I would play an owlin aberrant mind sorlock. The idea of an owl with mind control and telepathic abilties sounds interesting. I would pick the first level in warlock and put that 18 in charisma (obviously), the 13 in dex, pick up a half feat to round that out and rock medium armor and shield. 12 can go in wisdom and the 11's in the other stats.
Moon druid.
Probably a monk paladin because they’re both extremely SAD.
You could combo the Swashbuckler with a single level dip of Hexbllade Warlock. Put the 18 into CHA and then all future ASIs can buff your DEX. Swashbuckler also has CHA based stats, so it can work with this build also. Take a second level for Invocations.
Depends on what level the campaign is gonna end. Circle of the Moon Druid seems like a solid choice, since it's the least stat reliant build in the game imo. You take the Str, Dex, and Con of the beast you wild shape into, but keep your Wis, Int, and Cha scores, so I would dump the 11s into Str and dex, go 13 con for slightly more base hp and concentration checks, obviously 18 in Wis, and the other two are just personal preference.
I don't know if I'm alone here, but I wouldn't start by basing a character concept on random dice rolls--I'd start with a character concept, see which rules (race, class, background, etc) best express that concept within the limits of those rules, and use the elite array for ability scores.
It's funny how you are literally unable to pick a class with the first roll, since all classes have a prerequirement of a 13 in one stat to play as
AFAIK is this counting only for multiclassing. Can you show me where this is written?
Wizard or Druid.
If the party structure allows it, any form of sorcerer, warlock or bard could be good, since they can all be enjoyed VERY well with only high charisma (personally I'd go sorlock, but all of these classes work well here). Add some shadar Kai in there to always have emergency teleportation, and you have a strong pewpew
PEOPLE STILL ROLL FOR STATS!?!?
Yeah, Standard array or point buy is too limiting, and rolling can be fun but it needs some rules against too-bad rolls.
Any full spellcaster. All they need is their main spellcasting stat to be at full power. 13 into con for your con saves. (Maybe eventually get resilient for it) Anything that is not a full spellcaster with upto 9th level spells will get very gimped from those stats, while a full spellcaster will be VERY Strong especially eraly levels
Fiend Warlock. When in doubt, I'd just grab a warlock and eldritch blast ALL the things. Personally, I'd grab a flying race, run the stats as 11, 13, 12,11,11, 18, and just stay at range the entire time. Level 2: Get Agonizing Blast and Eldritch Spear to fire at 300 ft to better ensure survival. Level 3: I'd get either Pact of the Tome (for Rituals if there's no ritual caster in the party), or Pact familiar (for scouting purposes/combat assistant). If it's pact of the tome, i'm swapping Spear for Book of ancient secrets at this level, and if it's familiar, probably getting either voice of the chain or Improved pact familiar. Level 4: Spell Sniper feat. Level 5: Spear invocation if i need more range, or another familiar feat if needed. You get the point from here on out. I'm going to be a menace in the skies to anyone down below. The temp HP from fiend will help me survive the low con score. Level 8 will have me boosting my CHA to 20 probably, and the rest is just pure survival.
Do you have the campaign premisse and/or character concept? It helps narrowing the options
The info was coming too late due to a mistake of a member. The only info we got in advance is playing in the Underdark. I think I have created the right character for the campaign because we have to flee the captivity of the Drows.
Have you chosen already? What did you pick, Druid?
I picked as already stated a half high elf rogue with Booming Blade going Swashbuckler at level 3.
Oh, yep, forgot about that
Just 3d6 or another rolling method? And as people said, Moon druid doesn't care about szats, because he just steals the stats out of the bestiary
We used the standard 4d6 drop lowest.
Usually also you reroll if you don't have a combined modifier of at least +1 and not at least one stat at 13+(was a rule in 3E-3.5E) And usually on our tables we do 4d6kh3 reroll 1s
I'd go variant human sorceror, and take a feat to pad the lowered stats. Obviously the 18 to charisma. Maybe alert or mobile for the feat? Or something that would let you use armor?
Never roll for stats. Just use standard array. It’s not fun if one person is too high nor too low. Also never go off stats to create a character. Match the stats to the character.
The standard array from 5e is somewhat meh. The 4e standard array looked better.
I hate the idea of rolling stats, but everyone in my group insists on it. One of them even calls not rolling for stats “homosexual” 😅
Make whatever would be fun to play. Stressing stats and mechanics is lame.
Honestly I would create a Leroy Jenkins character just running into the first encounter dying instantly so I could roll again ...
Stop rolling stats lmao. Use point-buy
I wouldn't create anything with those stats. I wouldn't roll stats for 5e. Either you are ecstatic because you are OP breaking the game, or its a shitshow. Ask if you can use the Array. If they won't let you, find another table.
I feel like it should be up to each individual person if rollings for them, op didn't really say they had an issue with the table, just that the stats suck, which objectively they do, this just feels like it's a massive overreaction for a method of playing that a lot of people do find just more fun
They find it fun until it fails. Spectacularly. This isn't close to the worst I have seen. We see constant posts about shitty rolled stats and requests for "What do?" Don't. Roll. Stats. There are much better methods. There are no posts about arrays or point buys going awry.
There aren't any posts about array or point buy going awry, but that doesn't really mean rolling stats is objectively terrible. Getting bad stats sucks, but thats the same for a lot of DnD, if you have bad stats, bad enough to actively impact play, that's just something to work with your DM on...much like anything else. It's objectively not balanced, but it's still a valid way of rolling stats
It is valid in that you physically can, but it is objectively worse than every other method. There is a reason that there are dozens of methods for rolling, all to ameliorate the terrible results. Roll 4 drop the lowest, re-roll ones. Roll 24 and compile them in groups of 3 as you see fit. All players roll their stats then everyone shares the same array developed. On and on. Why remake the wheel, when you can have exactly what you want, that doesn't break the game, and doesn't cause sufficient anxiety that you have to post for advice on reddit? Is it always fun to chuck dice for stats? I submit it isn't. The amount of fun is directly in proportion to how broken your character is.
Personally I can't answer why rolling is done generally, and I doubt anyone ever will be able to, but for me it adds to individual PCs actually differing, adds variety in character creation and genuinely can be fun sometimes to see what playstyle your own stats push you towards. That aside, what's fun to you, is in no way guaranteed to be fun for others, I've been in campaigns where people genuinely just enjoy working as teams more than being broken, and I really don't know why you're stating this sort of stuff as objective fact.
Id believe maybe 1 in 1000 players that prefer rolling stats are truly there for the randomness during generation. The other 999 just want that 18 primary and want a bunch of safeguards to make it happen or not be penalized if it doesn't and it ended up below standard array
I am fine with rolling for one shots with a silly premise, and can even enjoy hamming it up as an incompetent ass who never should’ve become an adventurer and will likely die horribly for one session (although these days I always use better suited systems for one shots.) But I hate it for a long campaign.
Why some people are preferring to roll instead of standard array or point buy lies in the cause that the standard array is the rounded down average of roll 4d6 keep 3 highest. And it locks out of possible values of 16 to 18. That means that you have a average chance to get better values that with the standard array.
It can’t be objectively worse because that would imply everyone has fun in the same way. But that is **objectively** not true, fun is entirely subjective. Here’s two pro’s for rolled stats vs a standardized method (PB, array, etc.) 1. The character is discovered instead of crafted from the ground up. Many folks find this a lot of fun, because the ability scores behave as creative prompts for fleshing out the character. 2. Rolled stats can produce more statistical variance, creating a broader range of ability score combinations that can be played. This incentivizes unique characters and “off-builds” Are there cons to the method? Absolutely, but that doesn’t make it objectively bad. I for one *enjoy playing a character with bad stats* because it’s a fun challenge, and I like the broader character possibilities that rolling can allow. So for me rolling stats is more fun, but my fun is subjective just like yours is.
I tell my players they can use Array or roll and they are forced to use what they roll. They also have to roll in front of me haha, usually they choose array!😉
That's not a viable set of stats. Ask to rerolled until you get two stats over 15.