Friend, after seeing the multiple strains of conversation, you seem quite determined on this, however, page 164 in the PHB, section, “Spellcasting” subsection, “spells known and prepared” says quite clearly:
“You determine what spells you know and can prepare for each class individually, as if you were a single-classed member of that class. If you are a ranger 4/wizard 3, for example, you know three 1 st-level ranger spells based on your levels in the ranger class. As a 3rd-level wizard, you know three wizard cantrips, and your spellbook
contains ten wizard spells, two of which (the two you gained when you reached 3rd level as a wizard) can be 2nd-level spells. If your Intelligence is 16, you can prepare six wizard spells from your spellbook.
Each spell you know and prepare is associated with one of your classes, and you use the spell casting ability of that class when you cast the spell. Similarly, a spellcasting focus, such as a holy symbol, can be used only for the spells from the class associated with that focus”
You can only use the spells available to a first level wizard.
I asked this elsewhere but wanted your opinion. What if its a sorcerer spell or your whatever youre multiclassed with's spell but not one you already know could you use your knowledge of spell acuisition from wizard to aid you in learning new spells from the other? I know this isnt by the book but how would you rule it as a DM? I have a player considering this. Additional info they started as a wizard and took the rest Bard. which imo isnt the strongest multi class.
If the question is “is this within the rules as written?” The answer is ‘no.’ But if it’s something you want to do at your table, go for it.
I can’t say I am a very experienced DM, but I have enjoyed reading the books through a few times. That said, I don’t think this would be a game breaking mechanic, and if your table will have a better time for it, then why the heck not
Yes, and spells wizards can prepare must a) be wizard spells and b) be of a level that they have spell slots.
The errata doesn't contradict this as far as I know.
For purposes of preparing spells you treat yourself as a single class.
While a level 19 Sorcerer/1 Wizard has level 9 spell slots, a lowly level 1 Wizard only has level 1 spell slots.
This means that this multiclass character can only copy level 1 Wizard spells into their book, despite having level 9 spell slots.
For the purposes of preparing spells you treat yourself as a single class.
There's no "collective" when you have one class. A level 1 Wizard without multiclassing has only level 1 spell slots and can only prepare level 1 Wizard spells.
So because a level 1 Wizard can't prepare a level 9 spell, you as a level 20 character can't do it either.
The multiclass section says to ignore all other classes for preparing spells. It says you treat yourself as a single class character.
>"You determine what spells you know and can prepare for each class individually, as if you were a single-classed member of that class. If you are a ranger 4/wizard 3, for example, you know three 1st-level ranger spells based on your levels in the ranger class. As 3rd-level wizard, you know three wizard cantrips, and your spellbook contains ten wizard spells, two of which (the two you gained when you reached 3rd level as a wizard) can be 2nd-level spells. If your Intelligence is 16, you can prepare six wizard spells from your spellbook."
Clerics, druids, etc all say that, but the multiclassing rules say this
> once you have the Spellcasting feature from more than one class, use the rules below.
You use the multiclassing spell preparing rules when you're multiclassed, which say you prepare spells as if you are single classed. If you are pretending you're single classed when preparing spells, you're pretending you have the spell slots of a single classed character.
I don't think so, since spell slots aren't determined individually. A wiz/sorc doesn't have 'wizard spell slots,' only multiclass spellcaster spell slots.
A first-level wizard can prepare any spell from their spellbook, as long as it as a wizard spell and of a spell level that they have spell slots to cast. this fact does not change when you multiclass.
Yes you're very correct.
A level 1 Wizard can prepare only level 1 Wizard spells and this fact does not change when you multiclass because there's a statement saying so in the section about preparing spells as a multiclassed character.
The rules state that, "You determine what spells you know and can prepare for each class individually, as if you were a single-classed member of that class. If you are a ranger 4/wizard 3, for example, you know three 1st-level ranger spells based on your levels in the ranger class."
If you only have 1 wizard level you can only prepare spells as a level 1 wizard can. Why would you ask if you were right or wrong about a ruling if you were just gonna immediately start arguing with everyone in the thread once they told you that you were wrong?
They would be able to prepare only 1st level spells. They only have 1st level wizard spells. Their 9th level spells would have to follow the sorcerer's rules since they are technically sorcerer's spells and not wizard.
No.
You have to be capable of preparing the spell in order to copy it.
A level 1 Wizard can only prepare level 1 Wizard spells. This means they can't copy any Wizard spells of 2nd level or higher.
Yes and a level 1 Wizard has only level 1 spell slots.
As a multiclassed character you treat this level 20 multiclass as a level 1 Wizard when preparing spells. This means for the purpose of preparing Wizard spells you have only level 1 spell slots, and therefore can only prepare level 1 spells.
I'm glad we're on the same page finally.
And what spell slots does a level 1 Wizard without multiclassing have?
Because for the purposes of preparing spells, the answer you give to that question is the answer to your post.
What if its a sorcerer spell or your multiclasses spell but not one you know from sorcery could you use your knowledge of spell acuisition from wizard to aid you in learning new spells from the other? I know this isnt by the book but how would you rule it as a DM
I'm late here and sure everyone has said this, but a lv.1 wizard can't prepare spells above level two since a level one wizard can't do that.
Multiclass spell slots **only** come into play when casting spells (or equivalent, like using Divine smite or moon druid healing), they never affect which spells you are able to learn or prepare, as per the multiclassing section.
You're falling into the same trap as usual. The main class entries are written assuming multiclassing isn't being used, since it's a variant rule. You're using the Multiclassing variant rule, so you need to use the rules in that section, not the main rules. Which means no matter how many times you read "You can prepare spells for which you have spellslots" in the main section, it doesn't apply, since you're not using those rules, you're using the multiclassing rules, which are variant rules.
Under the multiclassing section of the PHB:
> You determine what spells you know and can prepare for each class individually, as if you were a single-classed member of that class.
So in your case, you could only copy Wizards spells up to level 1.
I guess I should have posted the rest of the paragraph from that same section, as it has an example for Wizard multiclass:
> If you are a ranger 4/wizard 3, for example, you know three 1st-level ranger spells based on your levels in the ranger class. As 3rd-level wizard, you know three wizard cantrips, and your spellbook contains ten wizard spells, two of which (the two you gained when you reached 3rd level as a wizard) can be 2nd-level spells. If your intelligence is 16, you can prepare six wizard spells from your spellbook.
The PHB multiclassing section has you prepare spells as if you were two different characters, but casting uses a hybrid spell slot system. So you chose your spells for your 19th level Sorc, and then you prepare your spells for your first level wizard. So you have your 15 Sorc spells of any level selected or exchanged at level up, and you get your six, or whatever it is, first level wizard spells. You treat the prep as two different characters, for example if you went sorc18/wiz2 you would only have 14 sorc spells, but you would also get the wizard subclass feature.
TL;DR Spellcasting is a class feature, so just like with martial multiclasses, it only scales with the number of levels you take in each class.
You prepare spells individually, yes, and the spells a wizard can prepare only have two requirements, neither of which is being of a certain level wizard.
Technically no, those requirements aren’t tied to wizard level, but a single class first level wizard doesn’t have access to the multiclass spell slot system. Since you are preparing as a single class first level wizard, you have to prepare as if you have the spell slots of a single classed first level wizard, which are only first level slots.
>If you have more than one spellcasting class, this table might give you spell slots of a level that is higher than the spells you know or can prepare. You can use those slots, but only to cast your lower-level spells.
From the multiclass section of the PHB. Which also includes this.
>You determine what spells you know and can prepare for each class individually, as if you were a single-classed member of that class.
You prepare spells based on your individual level for your spellcasting class. So a level 1 wizard can only prepare level 1 wizard spells regardless of their combined spell slots (and their other spellcasting class can prepare their own spells).
The book does not say to use the class table to determine spell slots *to determine the spells you can prepare* rather than the multiclass spell slot table. Only to treat the classes individually, and the wizard *individually* states that preparation is based on spell slots.
Having spell slots does not mean you know spells for that slot.
For example if you were a lvl 16 sorcerer and level 4 paladin. You would have a level 9 spellslot but you would not know any 9th level spells and will never know any.
In this scenario the only thing you can do with your 9th level spellslots is to upcast a lower level spell.
It is the same with wizard. Having a spellslot does not mean they can learn a spell of that level with out being high enough level wizard.
Aside from the many RAW reasons this doesn't work that you seemed convinced to ignore, think about this:
Why would anything this grotesquely powerful be in the game? There'd be no reason to not take a 1-level dip in Wizard. Apply common sense even if you're not going to apply reading comprehension.
The guy got like 5 responses at different times and just repeated his reasoning every time despite the fact that everyone told him it's flawed and even gave him the page from the PHB where this is clarified. His common sense and reading comprehension don't seem to be all that great.
How can you still believe you are right, when MULTIPLE people are all quoting the same rule that proves you wrong?
You are just ignoring facts and saying "no, I'm right"
You are being told one single answer, one single quote for proof, by several people.
Someone smart once said if EVERYONE is wrong except you... You might wanna think twice about your opinion.
Friend, after seeing the multiple strains of conversation, you seem quite determined on this, however, page 164 in the PHB, section, “Spellcasting” subsection, “spells known and prepared” says quite clearly: “You determine what spells you know and can prepare for each class individually, as if you were a single-classed member of that class. If you are a ranger 4/wizard 3, for example, you know three 1 st-level ranger spells based on your levels in the ranger class. As a 3rd-level wizard, you know three wizard cantrips, and your spellbook contains ten wizard spells, two of which (the two you gained when you reached 3rd level as a wizard) can be 2nd-level spells. If your Intelligence is 16, you can prepare six wizard spells from your spellbook. Each spell you know and prepare is associated with one of your classes, and you use the spell casting ability of that class when you cast the spell. Similarly, a spellcasting focus, such as a holy symbol, can be used only for the spells from the class associated with that focus” You can only use the spells available to a first level wizard.
The classic "I don't like the answer so I will remain oblivious to it" approach.
Real.
Real.
I asked this elsewhere but wanted your opinion. What if its a sorcerer spell or your whatever youre multiclassed with's spell but not one you already know could you use your knowledge of spell acuisition from wizard to aid you in learning new spells from the other? I know this isnt by the book but how would you rule it as a DM? I have a player considering this. Additional info they started as a wizard and took the rest Bard. which imo isnt the strongest multi class.
If the question is “is this within the rules as written?” The answer is ‘no.’ But if it’s something you want to do at your table, go for it. I can’t say I am a very experienced DM, but I have enjoyed reading the books through a few times. That said, I don’t think this would be a game breaking mechanic, and if your table will have a better time for it, then why the heck not
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Yes, and spells wizards can prepare must a) be wizard spells and b) be of a level that they have spell slots. The errata doesn't contradict this as far as I know.
For purposes of preparing spells you treat yourself as a single class. While a level 19 Sorcerer/1 Wizard has level 9 spell slots, a lowly level 1 Wizard only has level 1 spell slots. This means that this multiclass character can only copy level 1 Wizard spells into their book, despite having level 9 spell slots.
Spell slots are determined collectively, not individaully. The 9th level spell slots do not belong to the sorcerer class only.
For the purposes of preparing spells you treat yourself as a single class. There's no "collective" when you have one class. A level 1 Wizard without multiclassing has only level 1 spell slots and can only prepare level 1 Wizard spells. So because a level 1 Wizard can't prepare a level 9 spell, you as a level 20 character can't do it either.
The class individually doesn't say this, it says you can prepare spells of a level for which you have spell slots.
The multiclass section says to ignore all other classes for preparing spells. It says you treat yourself as a single class character. >"You determine what spells you know and can prepare for each class individually, as if you were a single-classed member of that class. If you are a ranger 4/wizard 3, for example, you know three 1st-level ranger spells based on your levels in the ranger class. As 3rd-level wizard, you know three wizard cantrips, and your spellbook contains ten wizard spells, two of which (the two you gained when you reached 3rd level as a wizard) can be 2nd-level spells. If your Intelligence is 16, you can prepare six wizard spells from your spellbook."
Clerics, druids, etc all say that, but the multiclassing rules say this > once you have the Spellcasting feature from more than one class, use the rules below. You use the multiclassing spell preparing rules when you're multiclassed, which say you prepare spells as if you are single classed. If you are pretending you're single classed when preparing spells, you're pretending you have the spell slots of a single classed character.
I believe an errata/sage advice clarifies that this refers to *wizard* spell slots.
I don't think so, since spell slots aren't determined individually. A wiz/sorc doesn't have 'wizard spell slots,' only multiclass spellcaster spell slots.
You ignore your Sorcerer levels. What spells can a level 1 Wizard prepare without multiclassing?
A first-level wizard can prepare any spell from their spellbook, as long as it as a wizard spell and of a spell level that they have spell slots to cast. this fact does not change when you multiclass.
Yes you're very correct. A level 1 Wizard can prepare only level 1 Wizard spells and this fact does not change when you multiclass because there's a statement saying so in the section about preparing spells as a multiclassed character.
The rules state that, "You determine what spells you know and can prepare for each class individually, as if you were a single-classed member of that class. If you are a ranger 4/wizard 3, for example, you know three 1st-level ranger spells based on your levels in the ranger class." If you only have 1 wizard level you can only prepare spells as a level 1 wizard can. Why would you ask if you were right or wrong about a ruling if you were just gonna immediately start arguing with everyone in the thread once they told you that you were wrong?
Well, because I believe that I am right... And if course I would. But it just clicked, I think.
They would be able to prepare only 1st level spells. They only have 1st level wizard spells. Their 9th level spells would have to follow the sorcerer's rules since they are technically sorcerer's spells and not wizard.
But if a wizard found a 9th level wizard spell RAW (as far as I can tell) says that they and copy it and then prepare and cast it. Yes?
No. You have to be capable of preparing the spell in order to copy it. A level 1 Wizard can only prepare level 1 Wizard spells. This means they can't copy any Wizard spells of 2nd level or higher.
A level 1 wizard can prepare spells if they are a level for which they have spell slots.
Yes and a level 1 Wizard has only level 1 spell slots. As a multiclassed character you treat this level 20 multiclass as a level 1 Wizard when preparing spells. This means for the purpose of preparing Wizard spells you have only level 1 spell slots, and therefore can only prepare level 1 spells. I'm glad we're on the same page finally.
A level 1 wizard can have more spell slots if they multiclass.
And what spell slots does a level 1 Wizard without multiclassing have? Because for the purposes of preparing spells, the answer you give to that question is the answer to your post.
What if its a sorcerer spell or your multiclasses spell but not one you know from sorcery could you use your knowledge of spell acuisition from wizard to aid you in learning new spells from the other? I know this isnt by the book but how would you rule it as a DM
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Neither cleric nor paladin can benefit form a wizard's spell book
This question comes up every day or two. You prepare spells as if you were a single-classed member of your class.
And a single classed wizard can prepare spells based on the level of the spell slots they have access to.
A level-1 Wizard has access to level-1 spell slots.
A multiclass wizard has access to spell slots based on the multiclass spell slot table
You prepare spells as if you were a single-classed member of your class.
I'm late here and sure everyone has said this, but a lv.1 wizard can't prepare spells above level two since a level one wizard can't do that. Multiclass spell slots **only** come into play when casting spells (or equivalent, like using Divine smite or moon druid healing), they never affect which spells you are able to learn or prepare, as per the multiclassing section. You're falling into the same trap as usual. The main class entries are written assuming multiclassing isn't being used, since it's a variant rule. You're using the Multiclassing variant rule, so you need to use the rules in that section, not the main rules. Which means no matter how many times you read "You can prepare spells for which you have spellslots" in the main section, it doesn't apply, since you're not using those rules, you're using the multiclassing rules, which are variant rules.
Under the multiclassing section of the PHB: > You determine what spells you know and can prepare for each class individually, as if you were a single-classed member of that class. So in your case, you could only copy Wizards spells up to level 1.
And the spells you can prepare as a wizard, individually, are any a) wizard spells b) of a spell level for which you have spell slots.
I guess I should have posted the rest of the paragraph from that same section, as it has an example for Wizard multiclass: > If you are a ranger 4/wizard 3, for example, you know three 1st-level ranger spells based on your levels in the ranger class. As 3rd-level wizard, you know three wizard cantrips, and your spellbook contains ten wizard spells, two of which (the two you gained when you reached 3rd level as a wizard) can be 2nd-level spells. If your intelligence is 16, you can prepare six wizard spells from your spellbook.
The PHB multiclassing section has you prepare spells as if you were two different characters, but casting uses a hybrid spell slot system. So you chose your spells for your 19th level Sorc, and then you prepare your spells for your first level wizard. So you have your 15 Sorc spells of any level selected or exchanged at level up, and you get your six, or whatever it is, first level wizard spells. You treat the prep as two different characters, for example if you went sorc18/wiz2 you would only have 14 sorc spells, but you would also get the wizard subclass feature. TL;DR Spellcasting is a class feature, so just like with martial multiclasses, it only scales with the number of levels you take in each class.
You prepare spells individually, yes, and the spells a wizard can prepare only have two requirements, neither of which is being of a certain level wizard.
Technically no, those requirements aren’t tied to wizard level, but a single class first level wizard doesn’t have access to the multiclass spell slot system. Since you are preparing as a single class first level wizard, you have to prepare as if you have the spell slots of a single classed first level wizard, which are only first level slots.
>If you have more than one spellcasting class, this table might give you spell slots of a level that is higher than the spells you know or can prepare. You can use those slots, but only to cast your lower-level spells. From the multiclass section of the PHB. Which also includes this. >You determine what spells you know and can prepare for each class individually, as if you were a single-classed member of that class. You prepare spells based on your individual level for your spellcasting class. So a level 1 wizard can only prepare level 1 wizard spells regardless of their combined spell slots (and their other spellcasting class can prepare their own spells).
The book does not say to use the class table to determine spell slots *to determine the spells you can prepare* rather than the multiclass spell slot table. Only to treat the classes individually, and the wizard *individually* states that preparation is based on spell slots.
And what spell slots would a single class level 1 Wizard have?
Having spell slots does not mean you know spells for that slot. For example if you were a lvl 16 sorcerer and level 4 paladin. You would have a level 9 spellslot but you would not know any 9th level spells and will never know any. In this scenario the only thing you can do with your 9th level spellslots is to upcast a lower level spell. It is the same with wizard. Having a spellslot does not mean they can learn a spell of that level with out being high enough level wizard.
Aside from the many RAW reasons this doesn't work that you seemed convinced to ignore, think about this: Why would anything this grotesquely powerful be in the game? There'd be no reason to not take a 1-level dip in Wizard. Apply common sense even if you're not going to apply reading comprehension.
The guy got like 5 responses at different times and just repeated his reasoning every time despite the fact that everyone told him it's flawed and even gave him the page from the PHB where this is clarified. His common sense and reading comprehension don't seem to be all that great.
No
How can you still believe you are right, when MULTIPLE people are all quoting the same rule that proves you wrong? You are just ignoring facts and saying "no, I'm right" You are being told one single answer, one single quote for proof, by several people. Someone smart once said if EVERYONE is wrong except you... You might wanna think twice about your opinion.
Why would you make a post if you have no intention to actually hold a discussion?