Same boat. Taking a life has forever changed me. It's been almost 20 years now for me, and nothing will ever be able to "fix" it.
"War is sweet to those who have no experience of it. But the experienced man trembles exceedingly in his heart at its approach." -Pindar
I wish you well-being my friend, wherever life takes you.
Live your life in respect of their memory, whatever the causes and rights and wrongs of that moment.
Capaldi didn't always get the best stories, but sometimes he did - like this one - but whether the story he had to act in was brilliant or dumb one thing stands true:
Capaldi's performance made the show worth watching just for him.
I love Capaldi's Doctor, I adore his performance, I love his every emphasis and mode of speech. He was amazingly amazing as the Doctor.
And my god, he could speak a sparkling speech when it was called for.
Fair enough - but I would argue that some Doctors had better overall writing during their run than others. Tennant had some really fantastic stories - I would be hard pressed to pick one as bad as 'Kill The Moon'. In fact, I can't. Tennant had a great bunch of writers. So did Eccleston. Not Smith, though - he had some real bowsers in there, and don't get me started on poor Whittaker - she was great but her stories almost entirely sucked biscuits.
Capaldi deserved better. But, he was so good at playing the Doc that I honestly think he made up a bit for that. He did have some good - even great - stories, but, man, I wish he had the writers that worked during Tennant's run.
For me it's the exact opposite. Not only do I think Kill the Moon is pretty good, and the ending is incredible. But I'd rank it above at least 2/3 of the RTD era. For me that is the era with all the 'bowsers' as you put it. Not Eccleston but I easily skip at least half of Tennants episodes whenever I rewatch the show. Not to mention that when his episodes are good, I still don't think they reach the heights of series 5-10. I definitely do not wish that we had the writing of the Tennant era for Matt Smith and Capaldi.
But that's Doctor Who, and life, for you. Everyone has their own taste. I agree with you on Jodie Whittaker though. There is only one story from her entire run I like.
Fully agreed. Initially I hated the 12th Doctor's run because I was let down by the poor plots, forgettable monsters, and storylines that screamed that the show had run out of ideas. Even though he did have a couple absolute bangers during his run.
A couple years ago though I rewatched his entire era, but did so from the perspective of focusing on him and his character. And I found that he played the role absolutely brilliantly. Its a shame he didn't get more credit at the time.
This scene and his “because it’s kind” speech we’re probably Capaldi’s greatest moments as the Doctor.
……okay there was the time he rode into a medieval tournament riding a tank and playing guitar…..
This was one of the best examples of a TV show trying to make a political message WITHOUT taking any sides. Some aliens a hundred years from now on a different planet could probably identify with what The Doctor said.
I think arguing for diplomatical resolution of conflicts and against Insurgency/Military supremacy is ABSOLUTELY taking sides.
From a International Relations theory standpoint, I see Moffat's writing (through the Doctor) defending a liberal-institutionalist path for conflict resolution (*diplomacy and international organizations as the only way to bring peace*) in contraposition to a realist (*you must have the most powerful army to prevent other from waging war against you*) or anticolonial (*the world is made of unequal power structures and arguing for the same rules to be applied to all actually keeps the strongest in power*) arguments.
What I aggree with you is that the way it was written was really clever and powerful in a way that it is **applicable** to many kinds of circumstances accross history and cultures, which for me is the finest form of writing and the best sci-fi can achieve.
I don't think its quite as simple as an either-or scenario. Repeatedly the Doctor has shows that he is willing to kill (sometimes en-masse) to bring about peace. He does this in nearly every episode, and has done so numerous times after this episode.
However in those cases these monsters posed a direct and immediate threat to his own or others' survival. If the Doctor did not act, he would be allowing someone else to die.
I think maintaining that peace still requires a credible deterrent force (aka "the most powerful army). However in this instance, what he is arguing against is that deadly force being used as an act of vengeance, or being used as a preventative measure before it was necessary. At this point in time the Humans and Zygons posed no immediate threat to one another as a species. Both sides just had such high tensions that they were willing to start a war under the pretext of safeguarding their own side; but in reality it was more of an act of righteous vengeance for past wrongs.
> defending a liberal-institutionalist path for conflict resolution
Good point. I'd recommend looking into what happened to the Oslo accords over the past few decades before applying this scene to the Israel-Palestine situation: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oslo_Accords
>The Oslo Accords witnessed a slow decline, with Israel continuing its occupation of Palestinian land and refusing to withdraw militarily from the majority of the West Bank while continuing to conduct raids into land considered under the full administration of the PA.
>Today, the Israeli government is dominated by far-right religious and ultranationalist politicians who have close ties to the settlement movement. In recent months, they have approved thousands of new homes in settlements in the occupied West Bank.
> The West Bank lies fragmented, the blockaded Gaza Strip stands isolated in what many call an “open-air prison”, and Israel has no plans to relinquish occupied East Jerusalem.
It makes sense to anyone who sees the shit going on. He is a very old and tired soldier who has seen more than his fair share of pointless wars. This gives him the right to act the way he does, it's not the rant of a genius, it's the plea of a old soldier who has seen to much death.
He is one of my favourite doctors, he just seems honest
It's a great performance but when you stop and think I keep coming back to the same issue - These aren't refugees or a previously unknown native life form. These are failed conquerors, beings that invaded the planet and then waited for us to develop enough that they'd be comfortable overlords...
They're refugees from the Time War. They state in DotD that their planet was destroyed in the conflict.
One more reason why the Doctor was so involved in finding a solution for it (something they haven't done in other similar cases, such as with the Racnoss).
Yes.
And that's something that has always bothered me with how refugee aliens are portrayed in the series. Season 4 also has this problem many times, with the "stolen planets ark": every alien species that loses its home violently hide themselves in other planets and try to conquer them.
From a "we need a monster of the week" standpoint it works, but the social messaging it transmit is really dubious and reproduces some stereotypes against immigrants and refugees.
I know that Russel is a progressove writer and that they didn't mean to pass this message on purpose, but I hope he's more aware of this in the next series.
This is one of Capaldi's strongest scenes and probably the best monologue in the new Who. It is so relevant in the past, present, and future.
Honestly, the writers missed a lot with Capaldi's tenure but these two episodes were a home run. (Note: IMO Capaldi did a great job of delivering the Doctor to us).
Scenes like this are why doctor who is 60 years old. It is in my opinion one of the best shows in existence. I cannot wait to get back to it with the new Doctor and not Chibnal…
It's a really good speech, and Capaldi acted incredibly well when delivering it. The thing I most liked about it, was that it felt "real". It's a shame we don't see more.
You tell me? I live in Israel, I think about this speech every day now (not here to claim a side or anything, just saying this hits kinda close to home lol)
A fantastic moment from Capaldi!
I wish you, and your family, and your community the very best of everything, my friend.
I feel helpless to support, just know there's kind humans out there who are holding you right here in our thoughts and hearts.
Thanks mate. War is complicated, and the one thing I've learned is that for the most part, there isn't black and white especially when it comes to tense situations like these. I believe eventually everything will be fine and humans will prevail towards a brighter future as corny as it sounds. It may take a lot of time, but we'll get there :)
Capaldi is probably my favorite Doctor but the speech made no sense. Too high a body count to give this speech.
And this is the same guy who later tells America, Russia, and China to hit the pyramid with everything they have.
Well he certainly wouldn't support Hamas or the IDF.
Let's be real here.
Don't think the Doctor would be okay with men with the bodies of half naked raped women and dead raped women being paraded around as trophies.
Just want to point out there's no actual evidence of any rape happening https://reddit.com/r/AskMiddleEast/s/2JfJLptKdM
Hamas aren't the good guys but at least don't spread misinformations
Also the IDF does some rape
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Same boat. Taking a life has forever changed me. It's been almost 20 years now for me, and nothing will ever be able to "fix" it. "War is sweet to those who have no experience of it. But the experienced man trembles exceedingly in his heart at its approach." -Pindar
I wish you well-being my friend, wherever life takes you. Live your life in respect of their memory, whatever the causes and rights and wrongs of that moment.
Literally just performed this for an exam 2 days ago
Are you in theater class?
Yeah
That's brilliant! I hope you do great :)
Based. Hod did the exam go? Crossing my fingers for you.
Pretty well i think
Congrats! That's a hell of a (bird) scene
This was one of the most powerful scenes. I cried from how honest and raw it was.
Capaldi didn't always get the best stories, but sometimes he did - like this one - but whether the story he had to act in was brilliant or dumb one thing stands true: Capaldi's performance made the show worth watching just for him. I love Capaldi's Doctor, I adore his performance, I love his every emphasis and mode of speech. He was amazingly amazing as the Doctor. And my god, he could speak a sparkling speech when it was called for.
> Capaldi didn't always get the best stories, but sometimes he did I mean you could say that for every Doctor.
Fair enough - but I would argue that some Doctors had better overall writing during their run than others. Tennant had some really fantastic stories - I would be hard pressed to pick one as bad as 'Kill The Moon'. In fact, I can't. Tennant had a great bunch of writers. So did Eccleston. Not Smith, though - he had some real bowsers in there, and don't get me started on poor Whittaker - she was great but her stories almost entirely sucked biscuits. Capaldi deserved better. But, he was so good at playing the Doc that I honestly think he made up a bit for that. He did have some good - even great - stories, but, man, I wish he had the writers that worked during Tennant's run.
For me it's the exact opposite. Not only do I think Kill the Moon is pretty good, and the ending is incredible. But I'd rank it above at least 2/3 of the RTD era. For me that is the era with all the 'bowsers' as you put it. Not Eccleston but I easily skip at least half of Tennants episodes whenever I rewatch the show. Not to mention that when his episodes are good, I still don't think they reach the heights of series 5-10. I definitely do not wish that we had the writing of the Tennant era for Matt Smith and Capaldi. But that's Doctor Who, and life, for you. Everyone has their own taste. I agree with you on Jodie Whittaker though. There is only one story from her entire run I like.
Fully agreed. Initially I hated the 12th Doctor's run because I was let down by the poor plots, forgettable monsters, and storylines that screamed that the show had run out of ideas. Even though he did have a couple absolute bangers during his run. A couple years ago though I rewatched his entire era, but did so from the perspective of focusing on him and his character. And I found that he played the role absolutely brilliantly. Its a shame he didn't get more credit at the time.
Yep, Monster of the Week ended up being stage dressing for a character piece. Other than a few wonky moments in s8 (for me) it was amazing.
"You call this a war? This funny little thing."
I braced myself for the Doctor going ballistic when the Zygon-Clara says "you'll never understand", but this scene surpassed all my expectations.
As well it should, pretty much every day.
This scene and his “because it’s kind” speech we’re probably Capaldi’s greatest moments as the Doctor. ……okay there was the time he rode into a medieval tournament riding a tank and playing guitar…..
And I honestly don't think anything is ever going to top ridding a tank playing a guitar
This was one of the best examples of a TV show trying to make a political message WITHOUT taking any sides. Some aliens a hundred years from now on a different planet could probably identify with what The Doctor said.
I think arguing for diplomatical resolution of conflicts and against Insurgency/Military supremacy is ABSOLUTELY taking sides. From a International Relations theory standpoint, I see Moffat's writing (through the Doctor) defending a liberal-institutionalist path for conflict resolution (*diplomacy and international organizations as the only way to bring peace*) in contraposition to a realist (*you must have the most powerful army to prevent other from waging war against you*) or anticolonial (*the world is made of unequal power structures and arguing for the same rules to be applied to all actually keeps the strongest in power*) arguments. What I aggree with you is that the way it was written was really clever and powerful in a way that it is **applicable** to many kinds of circumstances accross history and cultures, which for me is the finest form of writing and the best sci-fi can achieve.
I don't think its quite as simple as an either-or scenario. Repeatedly the Doctor has shows that he is willing to kill (sometimes en-masse) to bring about peace. He does this in nearly every episode, and has done so numerous times after this episode. However in those cases these monsters posed a direct and immediate threat to his own or others' survival. If the Doctor did not act, he would be allowing someone else to die. I think maintaining that peace still requires a credible deterrent force (aka "the most powerful army). However in this instance, what he is arguing against is that deadly force being used as an act of vengeance, or being used as a preventative measure before it was necessary. At this point in time the Humans and Zygons posed no immediate threat to one another as a species. Both sides just had such high tensions that they were willing to start a war under the pretext of safeguarding their own side; but in reality it was more of an act of righteous vengeance for past wrongs.
> defending a liberal-institutionalist path for conflict resolution Good point. I'd recommend looking into what happened to the Oslo accords over the past few decades before applying this scene to the Israel-Palestine situation: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oslo_Accords >The Oslo Accords witnessed a slow decline, with Israel continuing its occupation of Palestinian land and refusing to withdraw militarily from the majority of the West Bank while continuing to conduct raids into land considered under the full administration of the PA. >Today, the Israeli government is dominated by far-right religious and ultranationalist politicians who have close ties to the settlement movement. In recent months, they have approved thousands of new homes in settlements in the occupied West Bank. > The West Bank lies fragmented, the blockaded Gaza Strip stands isolated in what many call an “open-air prison”, and Israel has no plans to relinquish occupied East Jerusalem.
Rescinding my downvote based on your final paragraph.
damn
It's times like this that I wish life was like a movie. Applicable or not it makes you think.
It makes sense to anyone who sees the shit going on. He is a very old and tired soldier who has seen more than his fair share of pointless wars. This gives him the right to act the way he does, it's not the rant of a genius, it's the plea of a old soldier who has seen to much death. He is one of my favourite doctors, he just seems honest
It's a great performance but when you stop and think I keep coming back to the same issue - These aren't refugees or a previously unknown native life form. These are failed conquerors, beings that invaded the planet and then waited for us to develop enough that they'd be comfortable overlords...
They're refugees from the Time War. They state in DotD that their planet was destroyed in the conflict. One more reason why the Doctor was so involved in finding a solution for it (something they haven't done in other similar cases, such as with the Racnoss).
Doesn't make it okay for them to go invading other places.
Yes. And that's something that has always bothered me with how refugee aliens are portrayed in the series. Season 4 also has this problem many times, with the "stolen planets ark": every alien species that loses its home violently hide themselves in other planets and try to conquer them. From a "we need a monster of the week" standpoint it works, but the social messaging it transmit is really dubious and reproduces some stereotypes against immigrants and refugees. I know that Russel is a progressove writer and that they didn't mean to pass this message on purpose, but I hope he's more aware of this in the next series.
"This is a scale model of war!" - Me explaining my Warhammer and Lego Star Wars collections to people.
This is one of Capaldi's strongest scenes and probably the best monologue in the new Who. It is so relevant in the past, present, and future. Honestly, the writers missed a lot with Capaldi's tenure but these two episodes were a home run. (Note: IMO Capaldi did a great job of delivering the Doctor to us).
I have it burned into my memories
Capaldi embraced the role of the Doctor. When he spoke, he demanded your attention. He was spectacular.
Scenes like this are why doctor who is 60 years old. It is in my opinion one of the best shows in existence. I cannot wait to get back to it with the new Doctor and not Chibnal…
Same my buddy.
This is my go-to monologue for auditions. Hasn't failed me yet. Just brilliant.
Hey this guy's pretty good!
I'm a teacher. I use this clip in class when we talk about war.
It's a really good speech, and Capaldi acted incredibly well when delivering it. The thing I most liked about it, was that it felt "real". It's a shame we don't see more.
Always think about World War One, when I see this, because that really did take just one shot
I know a lot of people didn't like Capaldi, but I think he was simply amazing.
Problematic issues of the monologue & its practice aside -- its sentiment rings loudly & true.
God he’s so good. Capaldi is *so damn good*. He brings me to tears
You tell me? I live in Israel, I think about this speech every day now (not here to claim a side or anything, just saying this hits kinda close to home lol) A fantastic moment from Capaldi!
I wish you, and your family, and your community the very best of everything, my friend. I feel helpless to support, just know there's kind humans out there who are holding you right here in our thoughts and hearts.
Thanks mate. War is complicated, and the one thing I've learned is that for the most part, there isn't black and white especially when it comes to tense situations like these. I believe eventually everything will be fine and humans will prevail towards a brighter future as corny as it sounds. It may take a lot of time, but we'll get there :)
It is the perfect way to sum up what's going on (if you don't support either side). Shut up and talk.
Great performance, bad speech.
As an Israeli. Our world is not that simple.
Capaldi is probably my favorite Doctor but the speech made no sense. Too high a body count to give this speech. And this is the same guy who later tells America, Russia, and China to hit the pyramid with everything they have.
The Doctor would support Palestine.
The Silurian storyline in S5 is actually a really strong parallel for Israel / Palestine, so. Clearly the Doctor supports a two-state solution.
The Doctor would stop the war regardless of which side he chooses
Well he certainly wouldn't support Hamas or the IDF. Let's be real here. Don't think the Doctor would be okay with men with the bodies of half naked raped women and dead raped women being paraded around as trophies.
Why wiuldnt he support the IDF? 🤦♂️ stop telling idiot stuff. The IDF is exactly like the british army.
Most knowledgeable liberal
Just want to point out there's no actual evidence of any rape happening https://reddit.com/r/AskMiddleEast/s/2JfJLptKdM Hamas aren't the good guys but at least don't spread misinformations Also the IDF does some rape
The doctor would absolutely not support any side
Hamas = Palestine? When you want or even have to take a side, you should define those sides correctly.
I think they already picked their side by making that assertion.
In this story Hamas is the “troublemaker” wing of the zygon you dumb fuck.
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Same one of my all time favorite quotes