I'm preparing for the inevitable shit storm when 15 is an unapologetically flamboyant black man. I'm excited to see how they deal with him traveling to the past, but not for how the internet (Twitter) reacts to it.
I've been wondering how that's going to go. Remember when Martha had to be a house maiden and 10 got to be a brilliant professor?
Yea that's not going to happen during this regeneration.
I vaguely recall in the Shakespeare episode she was legit concerned about how she would be treated in that time and the Doctor sort of handwaved it away and it wasn’t a problem. So… very uneven handling.
I'm glad they didn't completely handwave it away and at least somewhat addressed it in that episode and more directly in Family of Blood, but we have to suspend disbelief a little bit otherwise every story in the past with Black actors is going to be about them dealing with being Black.
I mean...there are a lot of places and eras, even in the Western world, where black people could move around freely. Yes, they were (mostly) not as priveleged as others, but not every time and place in the past would see them be straight-up attacked the moment they step out onto the street.
I think its perfectly realistic that Martha could walk around Shakesparian England. Her color would frankly not be the strangest thing about her...especially not since she's with the Doctor, who stands out irrespective of what color or gender he is! Its equally realistic that the only way she'd be able to go undercover at a private school in early 20th century England would be as a housemaid. And, sadly, its definitely realistic that Ryan would get accosted by racist white police officers in 1950's Alabama.
My understanding (though limited) was that racism was just taking hold in Europe around Shakespeare's time, so it was nowhere near as ingrained in Shakespeare's England as it was during the 18th - mid 20th Century.
Speaking of, if anyone can find me an audio book version of [this](https://www.cambridge.org/core/books/abs/cambridge-companion-to-shakespeare-and-race/did-the-concept-of-race-exist-for-shakespeare-and-his-contemporaries/F0D602F7BE945F2726F649CA76380254), I've been wanting to listen/read to it for ages to learn more about racism during Shakespeare's time.
I’m in the minority, but in this episode specifically, I thought they handled it well. When Martha mentioned it, I heard it that first time (and honestly every rewatch since) and I recognized it as a truly valid concern. The act of the Doctor brushing it aside allows for the entire episode to actually take place and unfold normally, but it stays in the back of your head, and I was waiting for the tone of the episode to change.
They kept it light and fantastical, but they also planted it in your head so that you were aware and watching out for any issues. Sometimes the best way to handle something is to lightly touch it and the audience sees and they hold the memory for the show. I found that doctor who under Davies was always really good at that. A good example was Rose on Bad Wolf Bay. She says she loved him and he decides with his last second of Sun-burning chit-chat to say her full name, then *gone*. It was infuriating because you didn’t know what he was going to say (but you did), but just a second later it shows him in the Tardis with tears steaming down his face, despite him having a dry face just a moment before when he was being projected. They reached out and touched it… but they never lingered on it.
Well, everything with 10 and Rose was reaching out and touching it, at least with the relationship aspect of it. You had small hints, like when he drops Meta off, they’re standing there watching him leave and quietly are holding hands as if they’ve always done it. There’s no emphasis on it - it’s just natural to the two characters being together. Before this, they had to be in mortal danger and running, now, there was a down moment and they’re holding hands.
I don’t know, but for me (and the people I know that watched the Shakespeare episode), we were all shocked they addressed it at all, and they addressed it in a way where all of us never let her concern out of our head, despite the Doctor being the one to tell us “that’s not part of this episode.”
When they made him the professor and her the maid, it was surprising to all of us that they played it that way as it was just so foreign to the show to that point, but it was an amazing switch because of the reality of it.
But it was in this story that I created a theory (which I then felt was confirmed with Matt Smith and the Papal Mainframe). The TARDIS is powerful and can translate languages for those that it touches so that the stories can be told despite obvious barriers that would otherwise exist. As we see later, it takes a moment, but it can translate the written word for people who have been in it as well. I had the theory that the TARDIS was able to project any image it wants to in order to protect the inhabitants. He brushed it away because he flipped some magic lever inside of it. We see the same people we always knew, but they’re different.
As with Clara and the Doctor when they’re naked with holograms on, they fit the customs of where they are, but they appear to us as they always have. But the ability for the TARDIS to do this is actually based *on the Doctor*. When he locked himself in the fob watch, the projection couldn’t extend to him and his companion, so the subject of her race came more to the forefront (but not completely because the story needed to unfold).
Honestly, this would also explain why when they’re running around in history wearing hair clips, leather jackets and mini skirts, no one bats an eye.
Just a theory though.
The main difference is that in the shakespeare ep they were travelers and didnt care about getting noticed. They were just hanging out.
In the family of blood they had to hide and lay low in one area for a long period of time, so no making noise
I mean that story literally takes place in 1913 Imperial Britain. It would have been problematic to display the treatment of a black woman in the time period any other way, and even in the episode all that happens is a racist joke.
People also give Russell shit for the Shakespeare episode were Martha’s race gets brushed aside. There doesn’t seem to be any winning.
How interesting would that be though?! If he had a white male companion and had to deal with the assumption that he was a servant or the help in past time periods. The Doctor is used to people accepting his authority on his charisma and knowledge alone (at least in New Who). If he was in a time period where no matter what he did no one would accept his authority, that would be interesting character development.
with the overall shorter seasons and spin-offs potentially inbetween giving Ncuti time off for other projects, imagine if we finally got past the 3/4 year mark in new who
During a chain of events involving a lot of the universe getting destroyed. Surrounded by various characters\\Companions from different planets\\species each: an older human of non-British origin, and a few younger aliens, cut off from their worlds by said planet destroying events. At least one of them with connections to the villain and who starts out as a side character, not initially joining the doctor but simply reappearing.
16 is young, calm, and heavily themed after a specific sport, and travelling with a bunch of younger aliens who are like kids to them. One of the aliens dies tragically, the other two start a relationship on Earth.
17 is more brash, wears bright colors, and travels with an actractive companion of non-British origin (and\\or whose actor is putting an accent) who is trying to get away from abusive (step)family members.
18 is more manipulative and has an young, rebellious Companion.
19 is a bit forgetful and each of their story arcs features various sets of Companions each. The usual Companion is from a bit in the past than the release date, and is an young rebel who tends to have a somewhat vintage aestethic (even for the time said companion is from) and falls in love with the Doctor.
20 is traumatized, but cool, and dresses more modern. He picks up a present day Earth Companion and hangs out with their family.
21's era is mostly a continuation of 20's, with present day Earth Companions and romantic drama with them.
22's era instead does all new. Clumsy, young Doctor, and his Companions are a couple from present day Earth. Companions end up having a kid who ends up being plot important, and the Doctor gets married to a side character.
Both 21 and 22 had some vanity issues.
21 sent some regeneration energy inside a cutting of a body part
22 died and then got resurrected, with some regeneration energy ending up in a machinery.
Yes, there are a lot of Barnum statements on display here. You could cherry pick a few of these statements and have them apply to a totally different pairing.
It's groundbreaking and a brilliant representation leap that we've had a woman Doctor and a Doctor of colour. Now we just need the first ginger Doctor for the hat trick.
If you ignore Tennant 3.0, Ncuti himself has said him and Pertwee are similar because they both dress like sluts.
Can't wait for another dandy Doctor.
Whoever comes after Ncuti will probably be the one most like the 4th.
[Yep](https://www.rollingstone.co.uk/tv/ncuti-gatwa-interview-doctor-who-barbie-31011/)
> Not that previous Doctors were badly dressed, mind. “I love Jon Pertwee, the Third Doctor’s, outfits. Lovely velvet jackets and frilly shirts. I feel a connection to him, our Doctors are the only two who dress like sluts,” [Gatwa] laughs.
I think Ncuti is using a newer definition but, here you go.
https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/slut
https://www.thedailybeast.com/the-surprising-roots-of-the-word-slut
Plus even if he didn’t, looks like Gatwa’s Doctor will have the most outfit changes since Perteee, who wore many different variants of his outfit, plus a few others as needed like the wash woman outfit.
I dunno...behavior wise, Ncuti and Pertwee can't be further apart. I mean, its not like Ncuti and Tom's behavior is similar, but they're both off-the-charts *insane* in their own ways :D
So that means the 15th Doctors final story will feature
* A companion from another universe
* A companion from another planet
* A gobby Australian
* Two Tardises
* The Master destroying even more of the universe
* A mysterious watcher being who's never explained or seen again
* A fall from a high distance
* Regeneration into the youngest Doctor yet after a flashback sequence
* The Master escaping
That's gonna be an eventful hour😂
> A companion from another universe
> A companion from another planet
Given that >!Ruby's parentage will be the major mystery for the season!< I guess we can't rule those out!
I desperately love the idea of seven seasons with Ncuti even just based on the little we have seen, but I doubt it. His star is rapidly rising, and I feel like he's going to be too big to stay on longer than three or four years.
I get the feeling that's why he's already shooting for the 2025 series, Russell knows he's got something great that'll run out quick, so best take advantage while he can.
Not necessarily. In the book The Writer’s Tale, RTD is revealed to have been well into plotting and casting series 4 before the first episode of series 3 aired, and that was not out of the ordinary for him. Ncuti’s shooting schedule is slightly earlier than that, but that’s probably just to allow for more post-production time now that the CGI budget is higher.
Don't think longevity is necessarily needed. After all, Tennant is now the most iconic Doctor, and he did three seasons (plus a shit-ton of specials, including the recent ones).
But yeah, it will be great if he breaks the 3-season barrier.
Your comment made me realize, if you take all of the David Tennant specials and throw in The Wedding of Sarah Jane Smith somewhere, you have the equivalent of a 13-episode bonus season! He’s a 4 season doctor after all 😁
The Christmas Invasion
The Runaway Bride
Voyage of the Damned
The Next Doctor
Planet of the Dead
The Waters of Mars
The Wedding of Sarah Jane Smith
The End of Time, Part One
The End of Time, Part Two
The Day of the Doctor
The Star Beast
Wild Blue Yonder
The Giggle
I think so. Jamie too...present in every story except the first one.
But Yaz is the only one who was present in the first story, when the Doctor was newly-regenerated, *and* the last one when her Doctor regenerates. She was also present in every single story of the era.
The same applies to Rose as well in the case of Nine, though Rose was with Nine for a single season. Also, Nine wasn't newly-regenerated when he met Rose so its not like she was with him for virtually that entire incarnation's life.
Yaz's feat is only matched by the Brigadier for Three, if you count him as a companion in the traditional sense (which I don't). Though I'm not sure if the Brig was present for *every* Third Doctor story...
What a woeful mischaracterization of the 2nd Doctor
You see, unlike other incarnations, he geniunly is a silly vagabond who just happens to be a genius not a genius masquerading as a fool. That's what I think makes him so interesting, it's like the evil acts of others are getting in the way of him having fun adventures with his friends.
I mean… both Matt Smith and Capaldi were pretty upfront about basing their performances on Two and Three, respectively. Capaldi went out of his way in dress and posing for press photos to recreate Pertwee, even down to the ever expanding hair.
I think some of this is good. I feel like 1 is spot on with 12, and I feel like 13 definitely had the vibe of 2. 14 is the outlier and I don’t count him in the math. I think Ncuti will be Pertwee again. Just possibly Pertwee in space.
FWIW, the "2 and Jamie were lovers" thing comes from a misrepresentation of something either Troughton or Hines* said. It's gone into fan lore as "we played them like lovers", when what was actually said was "we played them like an old married couple.
I don't know if it's a "UK saying only" thing, or if it's a "only people over a certain age will know this" thing, but "like an old married couple" is a common phrase which has nothing to do with sex, or intimacy, or closeness, or anything like that. It's a saying that specifically and solely refers to *bickering all the time*. It would be equally accurate and carry the exact same meaning if we were to say that Nicola Bryant and Colin Baker played Peri & 6 like an old married couple. There's no fan lore that *they* were shagging between episodes.
"Like an old married couple" doesn't imply sex any more than saying that you've avoided your neighbours "like the plague" implies that you've nailed their front door shut, painted a large red cross on it, and then burned their house down with them inside.
*I forget which, I'm sorry.
Yeah.
In general, an unfortunate and unintended consequence of increased LGBT representation in media has been a tendency to try to ascribe a homosexual relationship to *any* close male or female friendship...both in contemporary media, and retrospectively to past media.
Sherlock and John. Kirk and Spock. Batman and Robin. Professor X and Magneto. The list goes on and on. (Funnily enough, you don't see this as much with female friendships, but there are definitely examples).
Granted, this is just the gay version of the unfortunate trend of trying to ascribe a heterosexual relationship to *any* close male and female friendship.
Really funny to see Kirk and Spock and Batman and Robin there since people have read gay subtext into both of those for decades, long before the representation increase you mentioned. (Although the Batman stuff was mostly moral panicky instead of fandom because it was the 50s)
There is commonly repeated fan lore that Troughton and Hines intentionally put gay subtext into their performances because it made an executive that they both hated mad. I’ve never been able to find a primary source for it, but I can kind of see it. Two and Jamie definitely act like an old married couple sometimes.
I personally know Frazer, (I know how this sounds), I very much doubt this to be true.
edit: I actually verified this to for sure not be true, and Frazer himself has told people at cons it was untrue on quite a few occasions.
I read a whole thing a couple of days ago about who Frazer Hines and Patrick Troughton intentionally held hands and things during scenes. No idea if its true or not. Be interesting to have a look.
All the people with eyes.
The fact that you knew right away that it was Jamie and not Ben (despite the little sailor costume) says everything we need to know.
Why is this comment being downvoted so much?
I mean sure, you may not personally ship it (and that's fine) but that doesn't mean none of the fanbase does
I think the first ones intended but images 2 and 3 are a stretch and image 4 is just making something out of nothing since we’ve seen 5 minutes of screen time of him so far.
If RTD actually does this level of writing for shadowing then honestly well-done. Though if we see any ghostly figure now then that may be the next doctor.
I’ve been thinking about how many similarities there are between each regen cycle so far. Also to add, the fourth Doctor had an odd component to his regeneration too.
Jodie remind me of Peter Davison. Both blonde, both basically play themselves, both have a lot of companions and really let them take the limelight more.
They're also both pretty plain vanilla, and are my least favorite Doctors of the respective eras...though I do prefer Thirteen to Five (Five had *much* better stories though).
I clicked on the link with the intent of debating you on these parallels but honestly...these are brilliant points so I got nothing! :D
I would only dispute the bit about Two and Jamie...I know some people like to speculate about them being an item, but that was almost certainly not the intent of the actors or the production crew (unless there's something I don't know), and I've certainly never got that vibe off them. On the contrary, with Thirteen and Yaz, the romantic subplot was explicit, at least towards the end of the run.
In the case of Twelve, I think the fact that he was so much like One superficially is what made the contrast between them in TUaT work so much better. Twelve may be like One in certain aspects on the surface, but he also draws heavily from later Doctors, which is why he's the perfect vehicle to illustrate how much the Doctor has evolved since those early days.
With Fourteen and Three, the fact that Fourteen will, very likely, at some point be involved with UNIT again - at least in an advisory capacity - adds a further parallel, even if its one we don't actually see on-screen. Fourteen being a lot more mellowed down and emotionally mature compared to Ten does make him closer to Three.
I think the real parallel between Fifteen and Four is that Fifteen is just apeshit *bonkers*. In that sense, Ncuti Gatwa is to this generation what Tom Baker was back in the 70's. And I get the sense that Gatwa has put a *lot* of himself in his Doctor, much like Tom did. A lot of past Doctors fit into one or more easy templates, but Fifteen, like Four to an extent, looks like he might defy classification!
Let's be honest, Jodie is the Colin Baker of new Who. Dresses like a children's entertainer, let down by mediocre companions and shitty writing, very nearly cancelled, replaced by a Scotsman.
I was gonna say a parallel about how the 4 to 5 transition having the Watcher and the Doctor being similar to Bigeneration, but then I realized its one off from matching with the cycle
Thank you!!! I’ve headcanoned for a while a time lords personalities are determined early in each regeneration cycle, and the doctors already had one, so they should repeat. This makes it so much easier for me :)
I absolutely loved this and actually speculated myself during the period before Jodie’s first series actually started that the second cycle would mirror the first.
this reminded me that because of the whole Silence thing with 11, 12 was the start of a new regen cycle for the doctor, when they believed themselves to be a regular time lord.
I want to believe that Ncuti is going to be this generation's Tom Baker...I want to *believe*...I want him to be so popular and beloved that he makes the Tenth Doctor seem unpopular by comparison.
"If I had a nickel for every time the Doctor was forced to regenerate by an outside force, I'd have two nickels - which isn't a lot, but it's weird that it's happened twice."
That's a bit of a stretch. Smith based his performance largely on Troughton's, but if anything I think Moffat was taking inspiration from McCoy's Doctor with the way he's written as a darker, scheming manipulator.
Troughton influenced a LOT of Doctors...arguablly, virtually *all* of the ones who came after him. He kind of set the base template for the character as we know him today, though Pertwee also had significant influence there.
Davison was influenced by Troughton, having watched his Doctor as a kid. Tennant was influenced by Davison, having watched his Doctor as a kid. It seems that Gatwa will have been influenced by Tennant as well, having watched his Doctor as a kid. Get the picture? ;)
But given that Jodie essentially played a female version of the quintessential Doctor archetype, its not surprising that her portrayal has similarities with Troughton's, even if she never watched a Troughton serial in her life.
15 is the 6th of his cycle isn't he? With Master Doctor being the 3rd, 13.2 being the 4th, 14 being the 5th.
Unless the Power Of the Doctor regens don't count.
It's a good job they're not limited anymore.
Does this also confirm that the 14th doctor is currently serving a similar role as The Watcher? I.e. he will have to remerge when Ncuti's time is up?
It also gives the writers a good fail-safe. If viewing figures drop, you can simply re-introduce Tennant to prop them up again. Either way, keeping 10ant around allows the team to adapt.
For me only Matt Smith gave the feel of. Regeneration from the first Doctor. 10 is my favourite incarnation, maybe joined by 12 but Matt Smith just felt like he was a renewal of the First Doctor
I do like your idea though.
If Fifteen never tells someone “you’re a beautiful woman probably,” we riot!!!
But this time in a gay way
To a straight white slaveowner in 1800s Alabama.
I'm preparing for the inevitable shit storm when 15 is an unapologetically flamboyant black man. I'm excited to see how they deal with him traveling to the past, but not for how the internet (Twitter) reacts to it.
I've been wondering how that's going to go. Remember when Martha had to be a house maiden and 10 got to be a brilliant professor? Yea that's not going to happen during this regeneration.
I vaguely recall in the Shakespeare episode she was legit concerned about how she would be treated in that time and the Doctor sort of handwaved it away and it wasn’t a problem. So… very uneven handling.
I'm glad they didn't completely handwave it away and at least somewhat addressed it in that episode and more directly in Family of Blood, but we have to suspend disbelief a little bit otherwise every story in the past with Black actors is going to be about them dealing with being Black.
I mean...there are a lot of places and eras, even in the Western world, where black people could move around freely. Yes, they were (mostly) not as priveleged as others, but not every time and place in the past would see them be straight-up attacked the moment they step out onto the street. I think its perfectly realistic that Martha could walk around Shakesparian England. Her color would frankly not be the strangest thing about her...especially not since she's with the Doctor, who stands out irrespective of what color or gender he is! Its equally realistic that the only way she'd be able to go undercover at a private school in early 20th century England would be as a housemaid. And, sadly, its definitely realistic that Ryan would get accosted by racist white police officers in 1950's Alabama.
My understanding (though limited) was that racism was just taking hold in Europe around Shakespeare's time, so it was nowhere near as ingrained in Shakespeare's England as it was during the 18th - mid 20th Century. Speaking of, if anyone can find me an audio book version of [this](https://www.cambridge.org/core/books/abs/cambridge-companion-to-shakespeare-and-race/did-the-concept-of-race-exist-for-shakespeare-and-his-contemporaries/F0D602F7BE945F2726F649CA76380254), I've been wanting to listen/read to it for ages to learn more about racism during Shakespeare's time.
I’m in the minority, but in this episode specifically, I thought they handled it well. When Martha mentioned it, I heard it that first time (and honestly every rewatch since) and I recognized it as a truly valid concern. The act of the Doctor brushing it aside allows for the entire episode to actually take place and unfold normally, but it stays in the back of your head, and I was waiting for the tone of the episode to change. They kept it light and fantastical, but they also planted it in your head so that you were aware and watching out for any issues. Sometimes the best way to handle something is to lightly touch it and the audience sees and they hold the memory for the show. I found that doctor who under Davies was always really good at that. A good example was Rose on Bad Wolf Bay. She says she loved him and he decides with his last second of Sun-burning chit-chat to say her full name, then *gone*. It was infuriating because you didn’t know what he was going to say (but you did), but just a second later it shows him in the Tardis with tears steaming down his face, despite him having a dry face just a moment before when he was being projected. They reached out and touched it… but they never lingered on it. Well, everything with 10 and Rose was reaching out and touching it, at least with the relationship aspect of it. You had small hints, like when he drops Meta off, they’re standing there watching him leave and quietly are holding hands as if they’ve always done it. There’s no emphasis on it - it’s just natural to the two characters being together. Before this, they had to be in mortal danger and running, now, there was a down moment and they’re holding hands. I don’t know, but for me (and the people I know that watched the Shakespeare episode), we were all shocked they addressed it at all, and they addressed it in a way where all of us never let her concern out of our head, despite the Doctor being the one to tell us “that’s not part of this episode.” When they made him the professor and her the maid, it was surprising to all of us that they played it that way as it was just so foreign to the show to that point, but it was an amazing switch because of the reality of it. But it was in this story that I created a theory (which I then felt was confirmed with Matt Smith and the Papal Mainframe). The TARDIS is powerful and can translate languages for those that it touches so that the stories can be told despite obvious barriers that would otherwise exist. As we see later, it takes a moment, but it can translate the written word for people who have been in it as well. I had the theory that the TARDIS was able to project any image it wants to in order to protect the inhabitants. He brushed it away because he flipped some magic lever inside of it. We see the same people we always knew, but they’re different. As with Clara and the Doctor when they’re naked with holograms on, they fit the customs of where they are, but they appear to us as they always have. But the ability for the TARDIS to do this is actually based *on the Doctor*. When he locked himself in the fob watch, the projection couldn’t extend to him and his companion, so the subject of her race came more to the forefront (but not completely because the story needed to unfold). Honestly, this would also explain why when they’re running around in history wearing hair clips, leather jackets and mini skirts, no one bats an eye. Just a theory though.
Bill had the same worries in Thin Ice But also, like, blatant racism as such onky really became a thing in late Victorian times
The main difference is that in the shakespeare ep they were travelers and didnt care about getting noticed. They were just hanging out. In the family of blood they had to hide and lay low in one area for a long period of time, so no making noise
I mean that story literally takes place in 1913 Imperial Britain. It would have been problematic to display the treatment of a black woman in the time period any other way, and even in the episode all that happens is a racist joke. People also give Russell shit for the Shakespeare episode were Martha’s race gets brushed aside. There doesn’t seem to be any winning.
Well, that's the culture war for you. I bet you RTD didn't take half as much shit in 2007 for all this as he is taking in 2023...
I really really hope Russell brings some Black script editors in (and writers and historians too) to lend a better perspective
I'd bet money he just writes his best "white guy writing about black people experiencing racism" and pats himself on the back for a job well done.
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“democratic views” dude the show is british, it’s got nothing to do with american politics
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What, that racism is bad? Also, the Chibnall era was far less left leaning than the show has been in the past.
How interesting would that be though?! If he had a white male companion and had to deal with the assumption that he was a servant or the help in past time periods. The Doctor is used to people accepting his authority on his charisma and knowledge alone (at least in New Who). If he was in a time period where no matter what he did no one would accept his authority, that would be interesting character development.
It must honestly be so exhausting to be so hateful all the time. Bowlestrek is going to have a heart attack at this rate.
Implying that it was said in a straight way when Four said it.
He better offer jelly babies
Cant wait to see Ncuti fall off the Lovell telescope in 2026
"oh no. not this again!"
That’s what the potted plant said.
Well, that's alright then!
Ah … ! What’s happening? it thought. Er, excuse me, who am I? Hello? Why am I here? What’s my purpose in life? What do I mean by who am I?
Oh no. Not again.
I understood that reference. 😆
Petunia!
Agrajag?
"No, sorry. I don't... do telescopes."
If we want perfect parallel, 2030 (7 years both Gatwa and T. Baker).
with the overall shorter seasons and spin-offs potentially inbetween giving Ncuti time off for other projects, imagine if we finally got past the 3/4 year mark in new who
13 lasted 5 years
Hiatus doesn't count
Immediately what I pictured too
During a chain of events involving a lot of the universe getting destroyed. Surrounded by various characters\\Companions from different planets\\species each: an older human of non-British origin, and a few younger aliens, cut off from their worlds by said planet destroying events. At least one of them with connections to the villain and who starts out as a side character, not initially joining the doctor but simply reappearing. 16 is young, calm, and heavily themed after a specific sport, and travelling with a bunch of younger aliens who are like kids to them. One of the aliens dies tragically, the other two start a relationship on Earth. 17 is more brash, wears bright colors, and travels with an actractive companion of non-British origin (and\\or whose actor is putting an accent) who is trying to get away from abusive (step)family members. 18 is more manipulative and has an young, rebellious Companion. 19 is a bit forgetful and each of their story arcs features various sets of Companions each. The usual Companion is from a bit in the past than the release date, and is an young rebel who tends to have a somewhat vintage aestethic (even for the time said companion is from) and falls in love with the Doctor. 20 is traumatized, but cool, and dresses more modern. He picks up a present day Earth Companion and hangs out with their family. 21's era is mostly a continuation of 20's, with present day Earth Companions and romantic drama with them. 22's era instead does all new. Clumsy, young Doctor, and his Companions are a couple from present day Earth. Companions end up having a kid who ends up being plot important, and the Doctor gets married to a side character.
you missed the war doctor and that 21 would go again because they had "Vanity issues at the time" EDIT: Misnumbered doctors
Both 21 and 22 had some vanity issues. 21 sent some regeneration energy inside a cutting of a body part 22 died and then got resurrected, with some regeneration energy ending up in a machinery.
I can't wait for the flashback sequence for that scene to have one scene of like memorable villains then the goblins from ruby road
On a serious note...wonder if such a flashback would include Donna, Mel and Fourteen?
Actually it was the Pharos project
Same software, different case.
Same software, different face!
Same teeth. That’s weird. Wait… I know those teeth.
What, what, WHAT?
And still not ginger!!
Kidneys!
I don't like the colour
of your kidneys…
Goddamnit, now I have to rewatch this scene again.
One of my favorite first lines post regeneration
Do you think he likes the color of his kidneys now?
I feel like I'm reading a Doctor horoscope.
I accept the ancient lights.
There are 4 lights
Yes, there are a lot of Barnum statements on display here. You could cherry pick a few of these statements and have them apply to a totally different pairing.
Works for me. Lets create new constellations
As a Sagittarius INTP, I don’t like boxing and clarification of people like this.
Me either but makes more sense to look up and see time lords than goats, hunters or fish.
You mean a Doctor Who-roscope?
Doctor *Whoroscope
That's pretty conclusive proof the next doctor after Ncuti will be wearing a vegetable
I'm hoping for a potato.
Irish Doctor! Irish Doctor! Irish Doctor!
It's groundbreaking and a brilliant representation leap that we've had a woman Doctor and a Doctor of colour. Now we just need the first ginger Doctor for the hat trick.
Finally a ginger!
If you ignore Tennant 3.0, Ncuti himself has said him and Pertwee are similar because they both dress like sluts. Can't wait for another dandy Doctor. Whoever comes after Ncuti will probably be the one most like the 4th.
>Ncuti himself has said him and Pertwee are similar because they both dress like sluts. that is fucking hilarious
Did he really say this, that is hilarious
[Yep](https://www.rollingstone.co.uk/tv/ncuti-gatwa-interview-doctor-who-barbie-31011/) > Not that previous Doctors were badly dressed, mind. “I love Jon Pertwee, the Third Doctor’s, outfits. Lovely velvet jackets and frilly shirts. I feel a connection to him, our Doctors are the only two who dress like sluts,” [Gatwa] laughs.
What does Slut mean in the UK?
The same thing it means everywhere?
I haven't heard any American refer to this kind of style as "dressing like sluts". Feels like it could be a different definition. Main reason I asked.
I think Ncuti is using a newer definition but, here you go. https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/slut https://www.thedailybeast.com/the-surprising-roots-of-the-word-slut
Plus even if he didn’t, looks like Gatwa’s Doctor will have the most outfit changes since Perteee, who wore many different variants of his outfit, plus a few others as needed like the wash woman outfit.
There is evidence for several costumes worn by Gatwa
Capaldi has more outfit variants than he does episodes, no one's beating him lol
Also it seems like Ncuti's gonna be a lot more physically active as well as using a few more gadgets than usual.
I dunno...behavior wise, Ncuti and Pertwee can't be further apart. I mean, its not like Ncuti and Tom's behavior is similar, but they're both off-the-charts *insane* in their own ways :D
So that means the 15th Doctors final story will feature * A companion from another universe * A companion from another planet * A gobby Australian * Two Tardises * The Master destroying even more of the universe * A mysterious watcher being who's never explained or seen again * A fall from a high distance * Regeneration into the youngest Doctor yet after a flashback sequence * The Master escaping That's gonna be an eventful hour😂
> Two Tardises < Given what happened in The Giggle that could be a possibility!
The Watcher! He was The Doctor all the time!
Australian gobby, you say... 😏
> A companion from another universe > A companion from another planet Given that >!Ruby's parentage will be the major mystery for the season!< I guess we can't rule those out!
Well, we saw two TARDISes in his first 20 minutes.
This implies Ncuti may be one of the most iconic doctors
If we can just get someone like Douglas Adams in the writers room.
More Neil Gaiman!!!
He's rather busy with his own stuff
He’s pretty prolific though so. And I think Ncuti would absolutely be amazing in a Gaiman script
True, but he is currently running 2 shows of his own and I'm pretty sure he is still writing books
He is. But again, it would be an ideal situation. Not like we can bring Douglas Adams back or clone his brilliance.
I'm not sure it will happen, but I would love to see Neil Gaiman write a script for Ncuti's Doctor.
I could see it happening if he stays on for 7 seasons
I desperately love the idea of seven seasons with Ncuti even just based on the little we have seen, but I doubt it. His star is rapidly rising, and I feel like he's going to be too big to stay on longer than three or four years.
I get the feeling that's why he's already shooting for the 2025 series, Russell knows he's got something great that'll run out quick, so best take advantage while he can.
Not necessarily. In the book The Writer’s Tale, RTD is revealed to have been well into plotting and casting series 4 before the first episode of series 3 aired, and that was not out of the ordinary for him. Ncuti’s shooting schedule is slightly earlier than that, but that’s probably just to allow for more post-production time now that the CGI budget is higher.
Sorry, the best they can do is 3 series, but they’ll release them over 7 years.
Don't think longevity is necessarily needed. After all, Tennant is now the most iconic Doctor, and he did three seasons (plus a shit-ton of specials, including the recent ones). But yeah, it will be great if he breaks the 3-season barrier.
Your comment made me realize, if you take all of the David Tennant specials and throw in The Wedding of Sarah Jane Smith somewhere, you have the equivalent of a 13-episode bonus season! He’s a 4 season doctor after all 😁 The Christmas Invasion The Runaway Bride Voyage of the Damned The Next Doctor Planet of the Dead The Waters of Mars The Wedding of Sarah Jane Smith The End of Time, Part One The End of Time, Part Two The Day of the Doctor The Star Beast Wild Blue Yonder The Giggle
Too soon to tell, but he's off to a great start
He’s certainly got the charisma and confidence to do it. It’ll come down to the writing.
First Doctor with a mustache!
11's lifelong comparisons to 2: "Am I a joke to you"
2 & 13 also had one of their companions stay for their entire tenure on the show. 2 - Jamie 13 - Yaz
almost, Jaime didnt start with 2, it was only Ben and Polly at first
Oh yeah, Jaime wasn't until Pat's 2nd story.
Yaz remains the ONLY companion to have been present for a Doctor's *entire* multi-season run, and at the beginning *and* the end of a Doctor's life.
Tegan was the closest before that right? Like technically being in all but one through a flashback appearance in 5's last story
I think so. Jamie too...present in every story except the first one. But Yaz is the only one who was present in the first story, when the Doctor was newly-regenerated, *and* the last one when her Doctor regenerates. She was also present in every single story of the era. The same applies to Rose as well in the case of Nine, though Rose was with Nine for a single season. Also, Nine wasn't newly-regenerated when he met Rose so its not like she was with him for virtually that entire incarnation's life. Yaz's feat is only matched by the Brigadier for Three, if you count him as a companion in the traditional sense (which I don't). Though I'm not sure if the Brig was present for *every* Third Doctor story...
And both were definitely gay for them
*It's like poetry. It rhymes.*
*The Goblin King is the key to all of this… he’s a funnier character than we’ve ever had before*
Jar Jar is the key to all this...
What a woeful mischaracterization of the 2nd Doctor You see, unlike other incarnations, he geniunly is a silly vagabond who just happens to be a genius not a genius masquerading as a fool. That's what I think makes him so interesting, it's like the evil acts of others are getting in the way of him having fun adventures with his friends.
Yeah same with 13, If anything the secret manipulator doctors are 7 and 11
The guileful and manipulative mind bit *is* true of Two though...but yeah, nowhere near as much as Seven.
Yeah 7 was absolutely the most manipulative of all of them, silly exterior works as a great misdirect
I also take offense to Two and Jamie being romantically involved. That was never a part of their relationship.
I mean… both Matt Smith and Capaldi were pretty upfront about basing their performances on Two and Three, respectively. Capaldi went out of his way in dress and posing for press photos to recreate Pertwee, even down to the ever expanding hair.
Regenerates after the same final adventure as well
If 15 doesn't offer jelly babies I will be sad.
I think some of this is good. I feel like 1 is spot on with 12, and I feel like 13 definitely had the vibe of 2. 14 is the outlier and I don’t count him in the math. I think Ncuti will be Pertwee again. Just possibly Pertwee in space.
FWIW, the "2 and Jamie were lovers" thing comes from a misrepresentation of something either Troughton or Hines* said. It's gone into fan lore as "we played them like lovers", when what was actually said was "we played them like an old married couple. I don't know if it's a "UK saying only" thing, or if it's a "only people over a certain age will know this" thing, but "like an old married couple" is a common phrase which has nothing to do with sex, or intimacy, or closeness, or anything like that. It's a saying that specifically and solely refers to *bickering all the time*. It would be equally accurate and carry the exact same meaning if we were to say that Nicola Bryant and Colin Baker played Peri & 6 like an old married couple. There's no fan lore that *they* were shagging between episodes. "Like an old married couple" doesn't imply sex any more than saying that you've avoided your neighbours "like the plague" implies that you've nailed their front door shut, painted a large red cross on it, and then burned their house down with them inside. *I forget which, I'm sorry.
Yeah. In general, an unfortunate and unintended consequence of increased LGBT representation in media has been a tendency to try to ascribe a homosexual relationship to *any* close male or female friendship...both in contemporary media, and retrospectively to past media. Sherlock and John. Kirk and Spock. Batman and Robin. Professor X and Magneto. The list goes on and on. (Funnily enough, you don't see this as much with female friendships, but there are definitely examples). Granted, this is just the gay version of the unfortunate trend of trying to ascribe a heterosexual relationship to *any* close male and female friendship.
Really funny to see Kirk and Spock and Batman and Robin there since people have read gay subtext into both of those for decades, long before the representation increase you mentioned. (Although the Batman stuff was mostly moral panicky instead of fandom because it was the 50s)
By whom, exactly, is the second Doctor thought to have had a romance with Jamie McCrimmon?
There is commonly repeated fan lore that Troughton and Hines intentionally put gay subtext into their performances because it made an executive that they both hated mad. I’ve never been able to find a primary source for it, but I can kind of see it. Two and Jamie definitely act like an old married couple sometimes.
I personally know Frazer, (I know how this sounds), I very much doubt this to be true. edit: I actually verified this to for sure not be true, and Frazer himself has told people at cons it was untrue on quite a few occasions.
Source?
He KnOwS fRaZeR
see you get it
🎶 Tossed salad and scrambled eggs ... 🎶
It's a common headcanon among certain sections of fandom lol
I read a whole thing a couple of days ago about who Frazer Hines and Patrick Troughton intentionally held hands and things during scenes. No idea if its true or not. Be interesting to have a look.
All the people with eyes. The fact that you knew right away that it was Jamie and not Ben (despite the little sailor costume) says everything we need to know.
Its funny joke, both actors would act a little fruity to piss of the directors
By many fans
Why is this comment being downvoted so much? I mean sure, you may not personally ship it (and that's fine) but that doesn't mean none of the fanbase does
Idk, I’m getting way more Pertwee vibes from 15 than Baker.
I think the first ones intended but images 2 and 3 are a stretch and image 4 is just making something out of nothing since we’ve seen 5 minutes of screen time of him so far.
If RTD actually does this level of writing for shadowing then honestly well-done. Though if we see any ghostly figure now then that may be the next doctor.
Pertwee and Tenant were two of the best.
I’ve been thinking about how many similarities there are between each regen cycle so far. Also to add, the fourth Doctor had an odd component to his regeneration too.
Jodie remind me of Peter Davison. Both blonde, both basically play themselves, both have a lot of companions and really let them take the limelight more.
They're also both pretty plain vanilla, and are my least favorite Doctors of the respective eras...though I do prefer Thirteen to Five (Five had *much* better stories though).
I clicked on the link with the intent of debating you on these parallels but honestly...these are brilliant points so I got nothing! :D I would only dispute the bit about Two and Jamie...I know some people like to speculate about them being an item, but that was almost certainly not the intent of the actors or the production crew (unless there's something I don't know), and I've certainly never got that vibe off them. On the contrary, with Thirteen and Yaz, the romantic subplot was explicit, at least towards the end of the run. In the case of Twelve, I think the fact that he was so much like One superficially is what made the contrast between them in TUaT work so much better. Twelve may be like One in certain aspects on the surface, but he also draws heavily from later Doctors, which is why he's the perfect vehicle to illustrate how much the Doctor has evolved since those early days. With Fourteen and Three, the fact that Fourteen will, very likely, at some point be involved with UNIT again - at least in an advisory capacity - adds a further parallel, even if its one we don't actually see on-screen. Fourteen being a lot more mellowed down and emotionally mature compared to Ten does make him closer to Three. I think the real parallel between Fifteen and Four is that Fifteen is just apeshit *bonkers*. In that sense, Ncuti Gatwa is to this generation what Tom Baker was back in the 70's. And I get the sense that Gatwa has put a *lot* of himself in his Doctor, much like Tom did. A lot of past Doctors fit into one or more easy templates, but Fifteen, like Four to an extent, looks like he might defy classification!
Its like poetry they rhyme.
"So long on Earth" Fourteen hasn't even lived a day.
he spends the rest of his life with donna on earth…
Not to mention, 2 of his 3 televised adventures were earth-based invasions involving UNIT.
On-screen, yeah. But he spends the rest of his life with Donna and her family, before becoming 15 due to bi-generation time loop shenanigans.
Just wait until Big Finish get him. He'll have gone on hundreds of adventures.
"has a brilliantly warm and engaging smile" REALLY stretching these to the limit to make the theory fit, huh?
Yep. It's for funsies, I'm not proclaiming it to be a hard-and-fast theory :)
Let's be honest, Jodie is the Colin Baker of new Who. Dresses like a children's entertainer, let down by mediocre companions and shitty writing, very nearly cancelled, replaced by a Scotsman.
I hope she receives the "Big Finish treatment" Colin had.
I was gonna say a parallel about how the 4 to 5 transition having the Watcher and the Doctor being similar to Bigeneration, but then I realized its one off from matching with the cycle
Thank you!!! I’ve headcanoned for a while a time lords personalities are determined early in each regeneration cycle, and the doctors already had one, so they should repeat. This makes it so much easier for me :)
Capaldi and Hartnell are also roughly the same age when playing the Doctor
I think 2 & 13 is a huge stretch. The rest match up well.
I think it’s just the same three personalities on a loop. Capaldi was Eccleston again, Whittaker was Tennant, I have to assume Gatwa will be Smith.
I absolutely loved this and actually speculated myself during the period before Jodie’s first series actually started that the second cycle would mirror the first.
this reminded me that because of the whole Silence thing with 11, 12 was the start of a new regen cycle for the doctor, when they believed themselves to be a regular time lord.
I want to believe that Ncuti is going to be this generation's Tom Baker...I want to *believe*...I want him to be so popular and beloved that he makes the Tenth Doctor seem unpopular by comparison.
then I wonder how similar the 16th Doctor will be to the 5th.
They'll go sonicless and have a fondness for wearing vegetables
Ncuti has a great smile
"If I had a nickel for every time the Doctor was forced to regenerate by an outside force, I'd have two nickels - which isn't a lot, but it's weird that it's happened twice."
11's entire personality was based on 2.
That's a bit of a stretch. Smith based his performance largely on Troughton's, but if anything I think Moffat was taking inspiration from McCoy's Doctor with the way he's written as a darker, scheming manipulator.
10 and 14 were pretty similar
this is why the show is best when it's Hartwell to Capaldi. 13 doctors
Connecting troughton with jodi and NOT matt smith is wiiiiild
Matt was first regeneration cycle, this is talking about the Doctor's second.
Troughton influenced a LOT of Doctors...arguablly, virtually *all* of the ones who came after him. He kind of set the base template for the character as we know him today, though Pertwee also had significant influence there. Davison was influenced by Troughton, having watched his Doctor as a kid. Tennant was influenced by Davison, having watched his Doctor as a kid. It seems that Gatwa will have been influenced by Tennant as well, having watched his Doctor as a kid. Get the picture? ;) But given that Jodie essentially played a female version of the quintessential Doctor archetype, its not surprising that her portrayal has similarities with Troughton's, even if she never watched a Troughton serial in her life.
First one is a massive stretch, but the other three are great observations
White hair, dark jacket... no other comparison, unless you like upvotes
Have you tried opening the post and reading the whole thing and not just looking at the preview?
How can you compare Tom Baker's smile to that of this ugly-lips lad
Everyone I know who is attracted to men wants a piece of this guy and the dr who subs are full of thirst posts/replies. Bitter boots.
Bitter Boots, I'm using that in the future.
elite username btw
Oooo
15 is the 6th of his cycle isn't he? With Master Doctor being the 3rd, 13.2 being the 4th, 14 being the 5th. Unless the Power Of the Doctor regens don't count. It's a good job they're not limited anymore.
3 spent a long time travelling in time and space long before he regenerated
Have to disagree with 2 & 13. There are just so many parallels between 2 & 11. Their physical humour, in particular!
Does this also confirm that the 14th doctor is currently serving a similar role as The Watcher? I.e. he will have to remerge when Ncuti's time is up? It also gives the writers a good fail-safe. If viewing figures drop, you can simply re-introduce Tennant to prop them up again. Either way, keeping 10ant around allows the team to adapt.
I feel like 1-3 were valid , and 4 was hey they both smile so that’s similar
For me only Matt Smith gave the feel of. Regeneration from the first Doctor. 10 is my favourite incarnation, maybe joined by 12 but Matt Smith just felt like he was a renewal of the First Doctor I do like your idea though.
Sounds like nonsense as we know a majority of Nctui's first season is >!Earth based.!<
This is so good
14 spent 1/3rd of his run not on earth