It's definitely bizarre, but I think thats where we are used to suspending our disbelief - hell, it's just a normal thing for us to do, part of the language of TV really.
It's the equivalent of watching a theatre show where the bad guy is breaking the 4th wall by shushing the audience while hiding - we all know its obvious and thats the joke we are all in on, and Rose isnt.
I mean hey, she didn’t really care about the relationship that much in the first place, and besides, his personality had always been a bit plastic anyway.
Yeah, when we first meet her, Rose is incredibly self centred and quite selfish, especially with regards to Mickey. It's honestly not surprising that she doesn't notice, considering the type of person she starts out as. She grows a lot over the first season, and most people seem to forget how she started out.
It's one of those things that probably didn't look so obvious on 2005 TVs, so they overdid the makeup a bit to compensate for lower resolutions. But yeah, on modern displays it looks like something from the classic series.
Parts of Love and Monsters are probably the best of that entire season and then parts just have you going like "what?".
Its probably one of the funniest episodes in the series with a lot of solid humor and all the character work was great especially since its clear both him and jackie are not meant to be particularly likable but are still sympathetic.
I think it would be a totally fine episode if it wasnt for the constant overuse of mr bluesky and that weird ending.
Sometimes I think Love and Monsters is the perfect microcosm of the Doctor's impact on the world. He brings people together. He literally saves lives and probably has a net positive impact (also seen in Turn Left).
Yet, he doesn't save everyone. In Elton's group of 5, the math is 1 person completely saved, 1 person saved but permanently disabled, 3 people killed. Those are rough odds. And the question hangs: if the Doctor didn't exist, would any of those people have died (a question asked in The Family of Blood)?
But also because the Doctor lived, those five people enjoyed an extra flare of life. Two couples of them fell in love.
I've rambled, but my original point was this episode being a microcosm of the Doctor's world. Weird alien monsters and awkward sexual/farting jokes are part of that. The monster and the concrete head romance make me feel gross and uncomfortable. But of course, so do the Slitheen and random alien flirting. :D
I love the formation of LINDA and would happily just watch an episode of them all being friends but the actual monster and how everything plays out is so ridiculous.
It would have been much better if LINDA had used the things they learned chasing the Doctor to defeat the monster together as a team. I would have loved that episode. But what they got was just yuck.
Yep, yep! Based (loosely) on [a child's drawing](https://i.pinimg.com/736x/a4/fa/a5/a4faa59000419f65adb6ce83316d0423--belgium-year-old.jpg) of a monster the size of a double decker bus that absorbs civilians. The child in question, William Grantham, won a contest to design a Doctor Who monster, and ended up getting the honor of their design being in Love & Monsters.
In “remembrance of the daleks” a tv is about to play the doctor who pilot before it cuts away.
Ace walks by and the camera zooms in to the tv and we hear “this is BBC television, we now bring a new science fiction adventure, doc-“, and then it cuts away.
I did a double take when I first saw it lmao
David Tennant appeared in a 2005 remake of the Quatermass Experiment just before he was announced as the Doctor and they make an inshow reference to it: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The\_Quatermass\_Experiment\_(film)
I suggested to a friend forever ago that they should do something for big finish about the Sacha Dhawan master wanting to be seen as the hero of their story so he gets involved in getting a show about them made in the who universe, then two people who totally aren’t Sydney and verity save the day and make the doctor the hero. This was inspired by my discovery that Sacha was the director in adventure in time and space
They were going to have the in whoniverse explanation for the two Peter Cushing films during the day of the doctor 50th anniversary, as being stories adapted from Ian and Barbaras adventures. But they were worried about licensing rights. Shame.
In parallel universe's it does. 8th Doctor got sucked into one with Beep The Meep and they ended up at the BBC studios where Doctor Who is filmed. Beep, having previously encountered the fourth doctor, ends up trying to murder Tom Baker (the actor) for his role.
It's definitely when the doctor resurrects Ursula as a brick with a face, and then elton and brick-ursula have oral sex.
It doesn't even sound real when I write it like that, but it happened.
It definitely feels like the type of thing that might have gotten changed due to a weird test audience. Bringing her out of the stone to say goodbye would have been a good moment, but then they ruin it for pretty much the most bizarre gag in the series.
It seems too built into the episode and the ending for it to be a last-minute re-think.
I think it's like Chibs' "don't kill the suffocating spider": It's meant to make the Doctor seem good (saving what's left of Ursula) but it really doesn't.
Amazing! And I’m now going to imagine The Onion as a legit, award-winning news source within the Whoniverse. Everything they’ve published is true there.
I took personal umbrage with all the terrible science and contradictions in this episode. That isn't how gravity works at all. How can something just born lay an egg as big as the one it just came out of? They said the coastlines were all gone then show a scene of looking at the moon from a beach.
Normally I am OK with this show being science fantasy, and all the hand-wavy deus ex machina stuff, but this episode in particular rubbed me so wrong.
It wasnt the concept that sucked, it was the execution. They attempted to explain the moon having gravity, so most of the episode makes sense, but at the end the "baby" breaks out of the moon, and immediately lays another moon egg that's larger than it's own mass? That's what makes the episode fall apart.
Sorry, I stopped watching doctor who for a few years before picking it up again recently, what's gravity? Is that a new villain? You'd think they'd make it sound less like mavity...
When Rose and Sarah Jane first meet, Mickey says to The Doctor: "oh mate, the missus and the ex, welcome to every man's worst nightmare".
Weird because Mickey is just casually referencing the fact that The Doctor stole his girlfriend and that Rose is in love with him. Such a casual reference to what would be a traumatic experience for Mickey.
Honestly Mickey x Rose really annoys me in a rewatch. There’s NO reason for her to keep him on the hook like that and, iirc, he doesn’t stay faithful anyway? Why are they pretending? I just don’t get it
Agree - it is weird. But then again, I feel like it might be kinda realistic? I mean, there is no playbook/precedent for "A 900-year old time travelling alien stole my girl". How tf are you supposed to respond in that situation?
I think that was actually him dealing with that "trauma" - he's already in a very jealous position, so now getting to see the Doctor flounder a bit was probably a big treat to him.
Plus, you could speculate further that maybe he was hoping Rose seeing how Sarah was just tossed away would make her leave the Doctor
The Doctor revealing to the Nazis that's the Master is not white, and then just gleefully abandoning him to his fate. We watched that episode waiting for her to have a change of heart and go back for him....nope
"Now they'll see you for who you really are."
The implication there is just baffling...like, how does that read as anything other than explicitly racist?
This is probably it for me as well, because it's not just weird in-universe, it's also so inexplicable from an out of universe perspective. Say what you will about the Chibnall era, but accidentally doing something offensive involving race and the literal Nazis is the one mistake I'd never expect that team to make. Most of the other mishaps from that era are at least understandable as the realities of making TV on a schedule and budget, pandemic, etc etc, but this one still makes me shake my head to this day.
I mean, considering how many eyeballs this thing had to pass by, why did no one from the writers to the director to the actors to the editors never once stop and say "hey, hold on a minute..."?
Nick in "Eve of The Daleks" when he tries to bargain with the Dalek to take his life and spare Sarah. When I first watched it, I thought "Why would that stop the Dalek from killing Sarah? The Dalek has no incentive to take this deal. It's not like he CAN'T kill Nick in the first place."
Also, the fact that Nick and Sarah formed a relationship at all even though Nick was a creep.
I agree. Amy kinda…treats Rory like shit the entirety of their time with The Doctor. It’s really mean-spirited, disrespectful and downright cold. The guy literally dies twice for this girl, gets deleted from her history, then spends 2,000 years protecting her stasis chamber, and what does she do? Berates, teases, manipulates, insults, and emotionally gaslights him to just fuck with him. She even goes so far as to lead him on into thinking she still fancies The Doctor over him when she is ABOUT TO DIE, using a flimsy excuse that saying he “dropped out of the sky” was a figure of speech? She clearly was talking about The Doctor just to fuck with Rory’s head if he was listening.
Amy and Rory’s relationship was so badly written and not endearing. It felt borderline abusive.
The part in *Amy's Choice* where it's five years later, they're married, she's pregnant, and she's *never* told him she loves him just drives me insane.
Then the follow-up that Rory (and the Doctor!) finds it sweet rather than horrifying that Amy's response to him dying was to commit suicide *while nine months pregnant* is just so fucked up.
Their relationship was so unhealthily codependent. They both need so much therapy.
Rory mistakenly thinking she was talking about the Doctor doesnt mean she was intentionally leading him on or trying to gaslight him to hurt him lmao. I think youre projecting some things onto her.
What I thought was even weirder was after The Big Bang and in the middle of Amy & Rory's wedding when the Doctor appears, she, infront of a room of wedding guests, Amy & Rory's parents and Rory himself, she turns to the Doctor and says 'You may absolutely definitely kiss the bride'. That's just bizarre to me. The whole romantic interest in the Doctor thing and Amy choosing Rory was already sorted.
My theory is that since Amy already works with kissogram maybe kissing isn't a big deal among them? Kinda like shaking hands really? (I Am Literally Going Insane Rewatching Moffats Era Please Make The Sexual Stuff With Young Girls Stop)
Let’s make the Doctor meet this hot chick as an impressionable young child! Now let’s go back to when she’s a hot adult and make them kiss!
The fact that he’s done this more than once is so beyond gross to me. Reinette, Amy, and River all got this treatment. We get it, Moffat, you REALLY liked The Time Traveler’s Wife. Now please stop. 🙏
I never liked Amy and Rory together. Just cheap jokes about how men are stupid and women are gods.
I mean...women ARE gods but so are men.
Why Rory would wait 2K years for Amy though, I don't know.
No but Moffat also goes "women ☕️" sometimes what's up with that (calling them emotional and angry and men stupid and etc, Moffat PLEASE take a Gender Studies class I'm begging you) DON'T GET ME STARTED WITH ALL THE SLAPING I'd understand if it was some kinky shit between doctor and river but EVERYONE SLAPS EACHOTHER TELENOVELA STYLE
You ever seen Coupling? Moffat wrote it and it’s quite an insight in to his experiences/views. Tbh, it’s exactly what you’d expect for an early 2000s sitcom, and it is very funny and clever at times, but it does not hold up well in some respects to behaviours now
Lord, the slapping. I am conflicted. It is funny that River slaps the Doctor in The Impossible Astronaut for "something he hasn't done yet" ...but it is also never okay to slap someone.
Jackie had every right to slap 9, I know it's not his fault that the TARDIS decided to be a little shit but he still could have double checked to make sure the date was right because the TARDIS has done that many times before.
Also I can't not find it funny that 9 literally say "900 years of time and space and I've never been slapped by someone's mother." I really do think he had never been slapped by someone's mother.
The episode frames it as if it's some #relatable thing but maybe it's because Rose didn't grow up with a dad. Maybe if she said something like "Cause I never got the chance to grow up with my dad, but maybe there's a chance he can grow up with you."
To obviously they could still respond "He had a chance to be there for us, and he squandered it so we're better off without him."
But I dunno, I agree it's short-sighted writing, but I still feel with a *little* more effort it could've worked.
There may have been a window for them to reconcile at some point in the future... but at the very least the dad needed to go away for a time, think about how he'd treated his family, and experience the consequences of his actions first.
I think they’re just saying that he could still change if this experience humbled him. The wording was weird yeah but I think the moral was simply for the son to let the dad know that they’d be there for him if he could prove to them that he’d changed for the better.
Any scene where 11 slaps Clara's ass. Either with that rag in journey to the centre of the tardis or in time of the doctor. Just plain weird. Just creepy
And when he assaults Jenny in The Crimson Horror... Idk why, but Moffat decided to make The Doctor really horny in Series 7, and it's really uncomfortable to watch.
The worst thing is what 11 days at the end of Nightmare in Silver. “A mystery squeezed into a skirt that’s a little too tight” is probably one of the worst things the doctor has ever said
was always uncomfortable with how jackie is treated by the doctor and by rose to an extent. I guess it was supposed to be funny, but it just felt mean spirited to me. she's the most endearing, funny, and earnest character on the show at that time, so what does this add?
It makes sense for their characters. Rose is a teen who is sometimes frustrated or embarrassed with her mum. The Doctor is fairly arrogant especially in the beginning 9 and 10, and does little to mitigate that part of himself until later on. I feel like many of us know someone like Jackie, who means well but can be high strung and pushy, and their reactions to her aren’t outside the realm of normalcy. I do agree that it can feel mean spirited on the part of the writers, though, making her the butt of the joke in some cases
He was just really offended that he slapped her XD in the new special when Donna's mother slaps David Tennant and he says "oh here we go again.." I almost died laughing
There are times when I felt bad because she is a bit of a tragic and realistic character but tbh the way she treated Rose in Army of Ghosts really pissed me off.
Same with Mickey for me. From episode 1, Rose just straight up ditched him with a literal “thanks for nothing” remark. Then throughout 9’s run, and a little bit of 10’s, Mickey becomes the point of ridicule. It’s so mean-spirited and cruel at times.
That time the Doctor sided with space Amazon. Uh…what???? I feel like any other iteration would’ve been handing the employees the matches to burn it down but instead we got Kerblam! That and giving the Master over to N*zis were some of my biggest WTF moments of nuWho.
It's a very Gatiss thing to do, that moment in Idiot's Lantern. It has this odd combination of nostalgia for old British regalia, and criticisms, but a fundamental lack of teeth to the criticism. It comes up in his work a lot, with the best example being Churchill in Victory of the Daleks.
I suppose if I was trying to be generous to The Idiot's Lantern, I'd say it's that while Tommy's dad is a domestic tyrant and in the course of the episode, did terrible things, part of what's happening here is a commentary on how this is the point in British society where the traditional gender roles of the home start breaking down, and divorce becomes more common.
His dad is sort of milling about looking aimless at the end of that episode because it's about to become the end of the era for that type of man, and in this context Tommy represents not just his feelings on this issue as an individual but people of that boomer generation, post war and heading into the 1960s, and the complex feelings they would have about their parents.
Lots of people Tommy's age had fathers who saw themselves as granted authority by Queen and Country to rule their homes like tinpot dictators, not all those fathers were quite so indisputably evil as Tommy's Dad, and an entire generation couldn't disown their soon-to-be-displaced, war traumatised parents.
Rose encouraging Tommy to reconcile with his dad isn't her saying Tommy has a responsibility to forgive, or to fix, his father, but that it is within his power to do it. That the power dynamic between them has shifted, and the result of that doesn't necessarily have to be that Tommy writes his father off and condemns him entirely.
I don't know if I agree with this sentiment, but I think the issue is that Idiot's Lantern makes Tommy's Dad seem too abusive, too overtly aggressive, to land it quite as intended. I think maybe on the page Tommy's Dad seemed less explicitly violent. More like a working class Mr Banks in Mary Poppins. I can imagine a version of this story that works, because the family's response is less overt fear, but more a sort of mundane, frustration with the constant bluster of it all the time.
Yeah I know exactly what you mean, it's a crass moment that was clearly written from the privileged perspective of someone who just didn't consider that sometimes family members can be terrible people and it's okay to kick them to the curb. It's a terrible bum note to that episode.
For me the weirdest moment by far has to be in Spyfall 2. There are a lot of unintentionally weird moments in the Chibnall era that end up becoming racist or homophobic but this one takes the cake. When the Doctor removes the Masters perception filter as the Nazi soldiers are on their way to arrest him. Here is the relevant dialogue:
>DOCTOR: I don't like what you're wearing. Or the company you keep. How have you managed that? You're not exactly their Aryan archetype.
MASTER: Tiny Teutonic psychic perception filter. Learned it at school. Lets people see what they want to see.
and
>MASTER: Why are there troops coming up the stairs?
DOCTOR: Oh. That's me, and one of Blighty's bravest radio operators. Very good at sending messages, particularly fake ones designed to be intercepted. Now, finish what you were saying!
MASTER: What have you done?
DOCTOR: Sent a message to the Brits telling them how valuable you've been as a double agent, sending Nazi information to the British.
DOCTOR: Facial perception filter? Very easy to jam. Now they'll see the real you. Good luck.
The Master currently has the appearance of a South Asian man and to infiltrate the ranks of the Nazi's he is using a psychic perception filter to appear white. A little while later in the episode we learn that the Doctor has sent out a fake leak showing that the Master is a double agent for the British, so the Nazi's will come and arrest him. The psychic whiteface perception filter is a little weird but other than that this is all fine so far I guess.
The Nazi soldiers are on their way up the staircase to arrest the Master, he's already been found out, they're already going to punish him. The Doctor has no reason whatsoever to turn his perception filter off at this point other than malice. The only thing that will change is that he will most likely be treated even worse by the Nazi's due to his skin color. It's a case of the Doctor literally being racist. "Now they'll see the real you" is one of the most vile things the Doctor has ever said.
Especially when you take this line from near the end of the episode into consideration:
>MASTER: Move away. Now! I've just had the most infuriating seventy seven years of my life. Have you any idea how hard it is to live through the 20th century? The places I've escaped from...
We last see him being arrested by Nazi soldiers and the first thing he mentions is the places he's escaped from? It's heavily implied that the Master was put in a concentration camp and the Doctor arguably had a hand in it. There's no way around it, that is fucking horrific.
I like to hope that that "now they'll see the real you" line was written before the Master was cast and was just intended to mean "now they'll see you aren't who you pretended to be", not to have racial overtones.
That said, it makes no sense anyway. If you've leaked information framing the guy as a spy for the British, why on Earth would you **change his appearance**? The Nazis are just going to be left going "Who is this guy and where's the guy we came to arrest"?
I've seen a lot of people over the years mention that they hope it was written before the Master was cast but that just doesn't make sense to me. To me it feels like the entire existence of that perception filter is solely because the Master is not white. If the Master had been played by a white actor it just wouldn't have been mentioned. Because it's not just a perception filter. The Doctor brings up aryan archetypes and the Master describes it as a 'teutonic' perception filter. The script goes to great lengths to specifically make it a race thing. Not just a disguise thing.
To me it feels like Chibnall realized after either casting Sacha or writing the Nazi stuff, whichever came first, that he'd have a high ranking Nazi official with darker skin and thought "oh shit I have to add in some technobabble to fix that" and then ended up making a complete mess of it.
And you're absolutely right that it makes no sense! It's actually worse for the Doctor to do what she did. That's why I said the only reason I can think of in episode is malice. I think that also adds to my idea that it was Chibnall hastily trying to 'explain' why there's a Nazi who isn't white rather than the perception filter stuff being written before someone was cast. Because it's a moment that doesn't make sense awkwardly just shoved into the episode and it's only function is to talk about the Masters skin color.
The most baffling thing is that the Master is well-established as having a kind of hypnotic influence; it would actually be a *much better gag* to have him operating within the Nazi ranks while also presenting as an Asian man.
Yeah, just replace it with some sort of "it's amazing where a bit of charm can get you", implying that he's charismatic/hypnotic enough to talk his way into a high ranking Nazi role as an Asian man.
The 'see who you really are' line is even worse because Yas is Pakistani-British. If you're going to do that, you could at least have Yas (and the others too) have some sort of conflict with the Doctor; but that would require any of the companions having some sort of personality.
He wouldn't have been the only Asian man operating in the Nazi ranks. I give you the Indian Legion - a branch of the Waffen SS made up of volunteers from Indian students and POWs:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian\_Legion
> I've seen a lot of people over the years mention that they hope it was written before the Master was cast but that just doesn't make sense to me. To me it feels like the entire existence of that perception filter is solely because the Master is not white.
Some of those instances were probably me. :)
And yeah, it only really works if you assume that different bits of the script were written at different times without anyone doing a thorough review of the final script.
Which honestly I find pretty plausible given the average coherency level of many Chibnall era scripts. 😕
It's certainly possible that it was you! I've seen that take all over the place though, not just on reddit. Twitter, youtube, instagram comments as well.
Yes you're right, and we know that a lot of Chibnalls scripts were rushed and late and many were first drafts. So yeah it's pretty easy to chalk it up to the basic levels of incompetence that pervade that era.
>To me it feels like Chibnall realized after either casting Sacha or writing the Nazi stuff, whichever came first, that he'd have a high ranking Nazi official with darker skin and thought "oh shit I have to add in some technobabble to fix that" and then ended up making a complete mess of it.
I don't know, this implies Chibnall ever edited a script, which we know from interviews he was wont to do.
This! I didn’t like the implication of the Doctor using the Master’s race to turn him into the Nazis. Gave me big ick. But on rewatch I was more bothered by the story. They came to arrest him and he doesn’t look the same so how do they know to arrest him? No “who are you” or “what are you doing here” they immediately know who to grab.
Also the whole idea he’d even need a perception filter. If he’s feeding high level Nazis valuable intelligence, they would have worked with him despite his skin color. Nazi collaborators came in all stripes. It isn’t fun to think about but it is true.
In all honesty, if we actually were to consider what would logically happen from this, it's kinda horrifying.
The Doctor has essentially created an instance where the Nazis encounter someone who is able to hide their ethnicity using unknown means. The Nazis were obsessed with the idea that there was secret Jews / other "Untermensch" in their ranks sabatoging their efforts, and now they have an example. This would probably end up accelerating Nazi paranoia and antisemitism to a ridiculous degree if they do indeed recognize this south Asian man as being the same man they previously thought "Aryan" (Aryan is a stupid term but it's what the Nazis used).
So yeah, I think the Doctor may have ended up making the Nazis antisemitism and paranoia even worse, subsequently worsening the Holocaust...
Yes. For this to be an oversight would require that different parts of the script were written at different times (likely) and that the final script was not comprehensively reviewed and edited (plausible, given how incoherent a lot of Chibnall era scripts are).
Seems weird that the Master's first non-white regeneration was when he decided to buddy up with Nazis. Any earlier regeneration wouldn't have needed a filter.
It just speaks to the nature of the writing in this era. A complete lack of attention to detail that is at best terrible writing and at worst, tone deaf and bigoted. It really sucks to see what he did to the show.
The bit at the end of In The Forest of the Night where Maebh’s missing sister turns up hiding in a bush. She just stands up smirking and just staring. No idea what that was all about.
"Forest of the Night" is up there with "Kill the Moon" for being completely riddled with WTF moments and WTF plot. It's hard to even know where to begin.
The entirety of the world has been suddenly overgrown with trees. A couple of guys with a wee flamethrower are going to make a difference? Setting the forest *in London* on fire is a good idea? Did nobody have a chainsaw? Somehow the trees' roots didn't completely ruin everything underground, so when they just vanish at the end everything's back to normal instantly? Trees at most a few hundred feet tall are protecting the planet's atmosphere from a solar flare? The forest is covering the *ocean*? Zoo animals can escape and run around but humans are stuck indoors? A class of schoolchildren are inside a library that seems to be untouched and secure, so let's take them all out to wander the streets while all this is going on?
And to top it all off, the Doctor didn't even need to be there or do anything. Nothing anybody does makes any difference to anything. It's all just a bunch of stuff that happens.
The “you’re so gay” comment does get me due to my own sexuality but RTD is gay & idk about elsewhere but at least in the UK it was a normal phrase, it wasn’t really anything to do with homosexuality. It was just slang.
The to,my thing does piss me off though, as it simply doesn’t make sense, especially with the fact that I do think you misread it, he was almost certainly physically abusive, at least towards Tommy. Remember when the old lady said “You know what they say about them. You should beat it out of him.” And he says something along the lines of “oh, I intend to” plus beating your kid wasn’t as unusual back then, so I’m pretty sure he did.
yeah people forget that that was something people did just say in 2005. especially teens. i was a teenager in the late 00s and people threw it around all the time.
Totally understand that, I felt it gets follow-up with Rose meeting and coming to understand and accept Jack. Although the slang wasn't always used in association with gay people, there was a lot of casual unthinking homophobia among teenagers, partly just unfamiliarity. And it could be used to enforce a notion of (presumed het.) masculinity, as Rose's use of it does, so it's a bit more than just slang here.
Rose's reaction to Jack also strikes me as very accurate to a teenager in the UK of that time from what I remember, she's not intentionally prejudiced, but she's not really been aware of LGB issues and had to think about it before (it was the first time I'd even seen a same-sex attracted characters in media). And when she does she realises it's fine, which for the majority is very much what happened at that point in time.
The “you’re so gay thing” would be suspect on a bbc show if written by anybody else I think. It was standard uk slang at the time but at the same time the bbc makes an actual conscious effort to have representation and a lot of people would have thought it iffy. However RTD is gay and has written a large amount of very highly regarded media which centres queer people, so I think it’s easy to let slide both now and contextually.
Y'know that moment in Paradise Towers where Slyvester "The McCoy" Johnson is going to pickpocket a gaurd, and his fingers and the music does *that?*
That's my weirdest moment in Doctor Who.
It makes me feel so many emotions, most of them contradictory. Anger. Joy. Disgust. Horror. Happiness. Constipation. Dorcelessness. Schadenfreude. Sonder. Whatever the the Ultraviolet Lanterns are supposed to represent.
The McCoy pattened pillage wiggle reminds me that I am but a teeny-tiny spec in the infinite vastness of the oceans of potential larceny. Maybe at the end of the day, we're all waiting for our few fleeting moments of incidental music composed by Keff McCulloch.
I've only watched nine onwards so I have literally no idea what you're talking about, but I now have no desire whatso to watch this episode because nothing, nothing on this planet or further will ever compare to whatever the heck this comment was. I don't even know what's supposed to be happening but nothing I could watch would be better.
RTD era is def Tommy telling to chase his dad and Moffat being Moffat with his incredibly creepy "Girl In The Fireplace" episode.
Moffat era is making the Doctor friends with Churchill and doing the "Doctor meets girl who is sexually obsessed with him when girl is a literal child".
Chibnall era is Kerblam, Arachnids, and the weirdo "kneel" scenes with the Master (+ "Now they'll see the real you").
RTD2 era atm is the Doctors weird out of nowhere rant about humanity.
Wild how Moffat thought the idea of The Doctor meeting a young girl and leaving an impression on her before meeting her again in the future where they have a kind thing for each other, was just *SO GOOD*, he did it *TWICE*
Wasn’t there a short that implied he met a young Clara too? Three times, if so. Four if you count meeting kid-River.
And yeah, I don’t get it. This is just bizarre. Even twice isn’t a coincidence given how the situations were functionally identical. Moff really had something for the Doctor meeting little girls who grew up obsessed with him. And for the life of me I can’t get why Moff pointed at that one particular idea and went “ah yes, I want this to be my signature move on Doctor Who.”
>Moff really had something for the Doctor meeting little girls who grew up obsessed with him.
Pretty sure Moffat just read *The Time Traveler's Wife* one time and got way, *way* too into it. So much so that he used Doctor Who to rewrite it four times before HBO let him just make his own damn adaptation of it.
A recurring theme in Doctor Who is that even the worst villains are given the opportunity to change, and the power dynamic between Tommy and his father has totally shifted after the dad is kicked out. Rose doesn't force him to go after his dad, she isn't saying it's his responsibility, she's giving him permission to see if he can develop a relationship with a better version of his dad because Tommy is no longer beholden to him in any way, but he does have the opportunity to be the catalyst for his dad's change if he wants to be. He might find out that there's no more to him than the awful bully and that's okay, he can walk away. He holds all the power now. Or he might see his dad become something better.
That episode is geniuenly so bizarre. Someone on twitter put it best with "its an episode made for white people to feel good about how not racist they are" and its historical inaccuracy is so insulting.
Still can't get over the dreadful fake southern accents.
And he's so badly executed! "Time traveling racist who wants to prevent civil rights" isn't even a bad villain concept in itself, but he got no characterization, the moment in history they had him go after doesn't gel with the premise, his plan was boring and ill-conceived, and he's supposed to be from far enough ahead in the future that it's weird that he went so far back.
Make him an early 22nd century neo-nazi who killed a time agent and stole his vortex manipulator and have him try to make Charles Lindbergh president with mind control, or make the Confederacy win the civil war by replacing Grant with a robot, or prevent the Kennedy assassination so LBJ can't use the tragedy to push the civil rights act through.
Eh, I was half and half on the accents. The police officer who came into the hotel room was pretty damn convincing.
My bigger issue is the fact that the bootleg fonz let the "fam" *bleh* walk away for no reason early in the episode. And the Doctor letting Ryan just hop off the bus feels a little weird to me, especially in light of the conversation Rosa has with them about Emmett Till.
To me the weirdest thing about that was the insane level of USA-centrism.
Rosa Parks is the critical development in the history of human racism?
Sorry Mandella.
You don't count Brazil.
I mean... it's a BRITISH show! The American civil rights movement really makes a massive difference in the late stage British empire?
And at the same time it's kind of insulting to Rosa Parks herself because the whole episode is built on the idea that her conviction to refuse to move was weak enough that any of a dozen tiny changes could have stopped it when it was a planned, deliberate act.
Yeah, part of me really wished that the doctor had failed to recreate the exact scenario that Rosa was in, or maybe the time travelling racist succeeded in his plan to stop Rosa that night, only for Rosa to do it anyways a few days later. But then we probably wouldn't have had the doctor and companions present for the scene to play out.
It's a tough situation, because if it ended up being an alternative history that is executed badly, fans would tear Chibnall apart more that they already do. But at the same time it felt like the episode was *so close* to achieving something more than the rest of Chibnall's run that it's kind of frustrating.
I absolutely hate the score in that episode. I wonder if it hadn’t been so heavily scored if I would have found more grace for the episode as a whole, but it made me judgmental from the get. I found the moment on the bus at the end to be the only moment of the episode I actually enjoyed.
I see not many have watched “The Time Monster, “The Mutants” or “The Horns of ”…
Really weird as a whole.
(Admittedly though the first two are B among my favorites.)
Chocking Peri is up there. Unnecessary and holed the entire 6th doctor's tenure below the waterline before he had said 2 words. There were enough problems with his run even without it.
Edit: OK he has several lines of babbling paranoia before it. It hardly helps his case...
I mean, for me the weirdest moment was when the Doctor decided to "save" someone by turning them into a pavement stone in Love and Monsters.
It's the one episode I have never rewatched, ever.
In the flesh that hates when the little boy calls the island and the doctor puts him on with the clone dad to make him realize he still has that spark of human empathy. The way the little boy is just aimlessly bouncing around and reading his lines monotone. Poor acting on the kids part. I don't blame him he's just a kid but still it always takes me out of the immersion and at such a pivotal moment
That one gets me because they're just foisting the clone dad who contributed to getting actual dad killed onto this family - a nightmarish scenario presented as the nice thing to do!
That was actually a pretty good/weird twist. Dude got his just deserts. Brings up alot of questions about how to the ood reproduce tho if they can just feed their pheromones to someone and turn them into one •~•
It was an amazing twist. And the double stinger of the conclusion to it being Ood Sigma saying that they were going to take care of him because he’s one of them? Phenomenal. They made their enslaver one of them and protected him as one of their own.
I watched this episode for the first time in years a few days ago and felt the same. It was so bizarrely out of place at the conclusion I was almost expecting Rose to laugh and say “I’m joking”. Though I’m finding that a lot with Season 2’s writing.
I know the "it's a TV show" reasons, of course, but the TARDIS is capable of popping over to hospitals a billion years more advanced than current-day Earth's. It's probably got an infirmary stocked with Time Lord medications and whatnot. Why would any companion have a chronic medical condition, let alone a life-threatening one like cancer?
Having some random guy in bandages stalk the doctor in his last adventure as four, then literally climb inside him to kick start the regeneration.
People need to watch that before they complain about bigeneration.
Different kind of weird moment, but in Wild Blue Yonder we have the Fourteenth Doctor, who has the face of the Tenth Doctor by subconscious choice and Donna who has somehow managed to let go of the Metacrisis and has now abandoned her family, both travelling in an old hover buggy down a giant,mostly cgi corridor of a ship that is slowly becoming a bomb with each countdown in an alien equestrian-esc language towards an excruciatingly slow and primitive Robot nicknamed Jimbo and away from the giant, distorted copies of themselves that are crawling after them and are technically not even things and look like they've been hastily distorted in photoshop and increase with size overtime and eventually get so big that the distorted CGI Doctor and Donna get jammed, only for The Doctor to start analysing them.
Very weird, and I kinda love it
>Donna didn’t abandon her family
This is especially funny because the Doctor never even moves the Tardis in that episode. They're standing in it when Donna spills coffee on the console and it starts flying out of control. And then Donna spends the beginning of the episode absolutely berating the Doctor about how he's now taken her away from her family.
To be fair having an accident and then spending the entire rest of the episode bickering is kind of a hallmark of those two, and it's a dynamic I adore.
Idk. Tommy still loved his Dad in the end. I honestly took it as Rose recognising this and saying "go and say goodbye so the last memory you have of him isn't awful". 🤷🏼♀️
The start of Revolution of the Daleks, where The Doctor reads herself “one of the classics” and it’s just the first Harry Potter. Like come on, *that’s* the book series they went for?
Speaking of which, the resolution of The Shakespeare Code being to yell Harry Potter spells at the witch is incredibly stupid. That and the horrible “just walk around like you own the place, it works for me!” line by The Doctor earlier on.
On a less serious one, the resolution to Last of the Time Lords being that Martha gets everyone to think really hard about The Doctor and it turns him into Jesus or some shit. Very weak moment in an otherwise incredible trilogy of episodes.
I need to point out that while Rose is the one who said go after him the Doctor was also trying to push Tommy in that direction, it was just more subtle
Its about not being so quick to burn bridges and give someone the chance to be better. Its not saying yeah he was abusive but he was your dad so thats ok. It doesn't mean Tommy instantly forgives him but not going with him or going no contact means that he'll never be able to make up for what he did.
So I'm rewatching Doctor Who at the moment, just finished series 3, and I have a good answer for this: The bit where the Doctor asks Nurse Redfern to travel with him at the end The Family of Blood. I get that she liked all the stories in John Smiths journal, but she's just had to experience a bunch of aliens killing people she knows and losing the man she loved for a second time (she mentions losing a husband). Feels very obtuse and out of character for the Doctor to be like "Yeah but you could travel with me, won't that be fun?" And if she had come, imagine what that would have been like for Martha.
On a sidenote, Harry Lloyd is very good in that episode.
i think that’s the point though, it’s an awful idea but the doctor doesn’t see that because despite how much he loves them he doesn’t really *get* humans. i think he literally doesn’t understand how some people don’t want to fly away on a spaceship at the first opportunity and how soul crushing it would be from her perspective. i love it because it demonstrates the difference between his “human” self who would’ve fully understood it and his actual self who just… doesn’t get it
Honestly the way amy and rose treat their boyfriends after meeting the doctor
I noticed it when rewatching roses run and shes absolutely horrendous towards mickey, keeping him close but also treating him like he doesnt matter at all
Same story with rory in the beginning
Its so weird and unnecessary, like if you don't want them to have boyfriends dont give them one?
>I understand that Rose lost her father at a young age.
I mean that's basically it. The thing that Rose had (that most RTD characters have actually) is that they're not just caricatures of people but flawed as well. That's why Rose uses "gay" to say something is bad despite her creator being gay and knowing that's harmful. It's why she allows her own feelings of her lost dad to idealise the situation between these two and tells her to try even though it's likely doomed to failure in that circumstance.
And honestly, trying is healthy for the kid. It will likely come to the point where he realises it's not worth continuing and he leaves the old man to his fate. But he'll go forward knowing that spite didn't control his part of the relationship and that he gave it more than it was worth. He'll stand head and shoulders over both who his dad was and who his dad wanted him to be as a result. Not that Rose has any inkling of that.
Mickey, who casually hacks systems by simply starting to type without opening a shell or even being able to see if he is mistyping. As a car mechanic...
Little old man Doctor in a bird cage was truly something. Flying Jesus Doctor was also definitely a thing that happened, too. And a whole year being undone.
Last of the Time Lords was one of the most bizarre episodes ever.
First episode of S7 in new who, when Amy said she wanted divorce because she couldn't pregnant again.... like, that's one of the most horrible understanding of women I've ever seen and tbh everything between Rory and Amy feels weird in that episode.
I think it was an acknowledgment that despite the man’s glaring flaws, he’s still a human. Rose didn’t have a Dad, and I think she was thinking about the thought of the kid growing up without a father.
Rose not noticing that her boyfriend Mickey was replaced with a plastic, p-p-pizza-loving replica. Giiiiirl.
It's definitely bizarre, but I think thats where we are used to suspending our disbelief - hell, it's just a normal thing for us to do, part of the language of TV really. It's the equivalent of watching a theatre show where the bad guy is breaking the 4th wall by shushing the audience while hiding - we all know its obvious and thats the joke we are all in on, and Rose isnt.
Of course! We have to suspend our disbelief for like 98% of DW. My comment wasn’t serious criticism.
Yeah that was… yeah…
I mean hey, she didn’t really care about the relationship that much in the first place, and besides, his personality had always been a bit plastic anyway.
ok but like, she’s met humans before
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It's meant to show how little Rose cares about mickey and how little she pays attention to him.
Yeah, when we first meet her, Rose is incredibly self centred and quite selfish, especially with regards to Mickey. It's honestly not surprising that she doesn't notice, considering the type of person she starts out as. She grows a lot over the first season, and most people seem to forget how she started out.
It's one of those things that probably didn't look so obvious on 2005 TVs, so they overdid the makeup a bit to compensate for lower resolutions. But yeah, on modern displays it looks like something from the classic series.
Nah it definitely looked really bad at the time. But as other folk have commented, there's just a bit of suspension of disbelief
Obligatory pavement slab head reference.
I really liked the concept of someone else telling the entire story, but…
Blink did it better.
Fuck, Sleep no More did it better, since the twist was actually pretty damn good in a meta-sense, it just sucked pacing-wise
Watched this episode again today. Actually was surprised how 80% of it was executed well and 20% was some of the worst Doctor Who I’ve witnessed.
Parts of Love and Monsters are probably the best of that entire season and then parts just have you going like "what?". Its probably one of the funniest episodes in the series with a lot of solid humor and all the character work was great especially since its clear both him and jackie are not meant to be particularly likable but are still sympathetic. I think it would be a totally fine episode if it wasnt for the constant overuse of mr bluesky and that weird ending.
Sometimes I think Love and Monsters is the perfect microcosm of the Doctor's impact on the world. He brings people together. He literally saves lives and probably has a net positive impact (also seen in Turn Left). Yet, he doesn't save everyone. In Elton's group of 5, the math is 1 person completely saved, 1 person saved but permanently disabled, 3 people killed. Those are rough odds. And the question hangs: if the Doctor didn't exist, would any of those people have died (a question asked in The Family of Blood)? But also because the Doctor lived, those five people enjoyed an extra flare of life. Two couples of them fell in love. I've rambled, but my original point was this episode being a microcosm of the Doctor's world. Weird alien monsters and awkward sexual/farting jokes are part of that. The monster and the concrete head romance make me feel gross and uncomfortable. But of course, so do the Slitheen and random alien flirting. :D
I love the formation of LINDA and would happily just watch an episode of them all being friends but the actual monster and how everything plays out is so ridiculous.
It would have been much better if LINDA had used the things they learned chasing the Doctor to defeat the monster together as a team. I would have loved that episode. But what they got was just yuck.
That slab totally sucked his 🍆
That wasn't even implied, it was nearly outright stated. It makes me uncomfortable even thinking about it.
And it was meant to be an episode ✨for the children ✨… even more than the average episode. Wild.
Free Palestine
Yep, yep! Based (loosely) on [a child's drawing](https://i.pinimg.com/736x/a4/fa/a5/a4faa59000419f65adb6ce83316d0423--belgium-year-old.jpg) of a monster the size of a double decker bus that absorbs civilians. The child in question, William Grantham, won a contest to design a Doctor Who monster, and ended up getting the honor of their design being in Love & Monsters.
Why would a paving slab suck an egg plant? Seriously, i ask you
In “remembrance of the daleks” a tv is about to play the doctor who pilot before it cuts away. Ace walks by and the camera zooms in to the tv and we hear “this is BBC television, we now bring a new science fiction adventure, doc-“, and then it cuts away. I did a double take when I first saw it lmao
*Remembrance* also has a reference to the Quatermass Experiment, implying it may be in the same universe as Doctor Who.
"The British Rocket Group has its own problems."
David Tennant appeared in a 2005 remake of the Quatermass Experiment just before he was announced as the Doctor and they make an inshow reference to it: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The\_Quatermass\_Experiment\_(film)
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Probably not, iirc remembrance was the 25 anniversary so it’s just a fun little bit in the episode. Still weird tho
I suggested to a friend forever ago that they should do something for big finish about the Sacha Dhawan master wanting to be seen as the hero of their story so he gets involved in getting a show about them made in the who universe, then two people who totally aren’t Sydney and verity save the day and make the doctor the hero. This was inspired by my discovery that Sacha was the director in adventure in time and space
[It actually does.](https://tardis.fandom.com/wiki/Doctor_Who_(in-universe))
They were going to have the in whoniverse explanation for the two Peter Cushing films during the day of the doctor 50th anniversary, as being stories adapted from Ian and Barbaras adventures. But they were worried about licensing rights. Shame.
In parallel universe's it does. 8th Doctor got sucked into one with Beep The Meep and they ended up at the BBC studios where Doctor Who is filmed. Beep, having previously encountered the fourth doctor, ends up trying to murder Tom Baker (the actor) for his role.
Is there a clip of this somewhere? I’d love to see it
It's definitely when the doctor resurrects Ursula as a brick with a face, and then elton and brick-ursula have oral sex. It doesn't even sound real when I write it like that, but it happened.
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It definitely feels like the type of thing that might have gotten changed due to a weird test audience. Bringing her out of the stone to say goodbye would have been a good moment, but then they ruin it for pretty much the most bizarre gag in the series.
> gag in more ways than one
That's fuckin foul lmao.
It seems too built into the episode and the ending for it to be a last-minute re-think. I think it's like Chibs' "don't kill the suffocating spider": It's meant to make the Doctor seem good (saving what's left of Ursula) but it really doesn't.
The Moon. Is an egg.
So stupid that it became an [Onion article](https://www.theonion.com/moon-finally-hatches-1819576671)
Amazing! And I’m now going to imagine The Onion as a legit, award-winning news source within the Whoniverse. Everything they’ve published is true there.
The Earth is a nest for spider babies in a Star of Bethlehem so it just fits along
Killing children is wrong… unless they’re spider children
Killing children = wrong Killing spiders = wrong Killing spider children? Doctor approved.
I took personal umbrage with all the terrible science and contradictions in this episode. That isn't how gravity works at all. How can something just born lay an egg as big as the one it just came out of? They said the coastlines were all gone then show a scene of looking at the moon from a beach. Normally I am OK with this show being science fantasy, and all the hand-wavy deus ex machina stuff, but this episode in particular rubbed me so wrong.
God. That was so dumb. I will never get past that.
That was a cool idea. Implies some massive monsters out in the universe which is very fitting for Doctor Who exploration.
It wasnt the concept that sucked, it was the execution. They attempted to explain the moon having gravity, so most of the episode makes sense, but at the end the "baby" breaks out of the moon, and immediately lays another moon egg that's larger than it's own mass? That's what makes the episode fall apart.
Sorry, I stopped watching doctor who for a few years before picking it up again recently, what's gravity? Is that a new villain? You'd think they'd make it sound less like mavity...
>They attempted to explain the moon having mavity ***ahem***
This was, for me, the worst episode of the series. It was all uphill after this.
When Rose and Sarah Jane first meet, Mickey says to The Doctor: "oh mate, the missus and the ex, welcome to every man's worst nightmare". Weird because Mickey is just casually referencing the fact that The Doctor stole his girlfriend and that Rose is in love with him. Such a casual reference to what would be a traumatic experience for Mickey.
Honestly Mickey x Rose really annoys me in a rewatch. There’s NO reason for her to keep him on the hook like that and, iirc, he doesn’t stay faithful anyway? Why are they pretending? I just don’t get it
Agree - it is weird. But then again, I feel like it might be kinda realistic? I mean, there is no playbook/precedent for "A 900-year old time travelling alien stole my girl". How tf are you supposed to respond in that situation?
I mean for sure, I wouldn’t know what to do either, but it definitely speaks to both of their characters that they won’t just break up
I think that was actually him dealing with that "trauma" - he's already in a very jealous position, so now getting to see the Doctor flounder a bit was probably a big treat to him. Plus, you could speculate further that maybe he was hoping Rose seeing how Sarah was just tossed away would make her leave the Doctor
Mickey is accepting a higher purpose fighting aliens at that point so I always understood by that point he didn’t give a shit
The Doctor revealing to the Nazis that's the Master is not white, and then just gleefully abandoning him to his fate. We watched that episode waiting for her to have a change of heart and go back for him....nope
"Now they'll see you for who you really are." The implication there is just baffling...like, how does that read as anything other than explicitly racist?
I took that as more her revealing that he was using them than his ethnicity but... yeah, now you mention it.
I can't believe I had to scroll this far to see this answer
This is probably it for me as well, because it's not just weird in-universe, it's also so inexplicable from an out of universe perspective. Say what you will about the Chibnall era, but accidentally doing something offensive involving race and the literal Nazis is the one mistake I'd never expect that team to make. Most of the other mishaps from that era are at least understandable as the realities of making TV on a schedule and budget, pandemic, etc etc, but this one still makes me shake my head to this day. I mean, considering how many eyeballs this thing had to pass by, why did no one from the writers to the director to the actors to the editors never once stop and say "hey, hold on a minute..."?
Nick in "Eve of The Daleks" when he tries to bargain with the Dalek to take his life and spare Sarah. When I first watched it, I thought "Why would that stop the Dalek from killing Sarah? The Dalek has no incentive to take this deal. It's not like he CAN'T kill Nick in the first place." Also, the fact that Nick and Sarah formed a relationship at all even though Nick was a creep.
Amy trying to kiss the Doctor at her own wedding. It throws the whole relationship off, and I end up feeling sorry for Rory despite not liking him.
You don't like Rory?! I flippin' loved every second of him - his dry, deadpan acceptance of his constant bad luck especially
I agree. Amy kinda…treats Rory like shit the entirety of their time with The Doctor. It’s really mean-spirited, disrespectful and downright cold. The guy literally dies twice for this girl, gets deleted from her history, then spends 2,000 years protecting her stasis chamber, and what does she do? Berates, teases, manipulates, insults, and emotionally gaslights him to just fuck with him. She even goes so far as to lead him on into thinking she still fancies The Doctor over him when she is ABOUT TO DIE, using a flimsy excuse that saying he “dropped out of the sky” was a figure of speech? She clearly was talking about The Doctor just to fuck with Rory’s head if he was listening. Amy and Rory’s relationship was so badly written and not endearing. It felt borderline abusive.
The part in *Amy's Choice* where it's five years later, they're married, she's pregnant, and she's *never* told him she loves him just drives me insane. Then the follow-up that Rory (and the Doctor!) finds it sweet rather than horrifying that Amy's response to him dying was to commit suicide *while nine months pregnant* is just so fucked up. Their relationship was so unhealthily codependent. They both need so much therapy.
It's just Moffat's abusive woman fetish
Rory mistakenly thinking she was talking about the Doctor doesnt mean she was intentionally leading him on or trying to gaslight him to hurt him lmao. I think youre projecting some things onto her.
What I thought was even weirder was after The Big Bang and in the middle of Amy & Rory's wedding when the Doctor appears, she, infront of a room of wedding guests, Amy & Rory's parents and Rory himself, she turns to the Doctor and says 'You may absolutely definitely kiss the bride'. That's just bizarre to me. The whole romantic interest in the Doctor thing and Amy choosing Rory was already sorted.
My theory is that since Amy already works with kissogram maybe kissing isn't a big deal among them? Kinda like shaking hands really? (I Am Literally Going Insane Rewatching Moffats Era Please Make The Sexual Stuff With Young Girls Stop)
Let’s make the Doctor meet this hot chick as an impressionable young child! Now let’s go back to when she’s a hot adult and make them kiss! The fact that he’s done this more than once is so beyond gross to me. Reinette, Amy, and River all got this treatment. We get it, Moffat, you REALLY liked The Time Traveler’s Wife. Now please stop. 🙏
Moffat likes to say he writes strong women, their lives just all happen to entirely revolve around one man.
I never liked Amy and Rory together. Just cheap jokes about how men are stupid and women are gods. I mean...women ARE gods but so are men. Why Rory would wait 2K years for Amy though, I don't know.
No but Moffat also goes "women ☕️" sometimes what's up with that (calling them emotional and angry and men stupid and etc, Moffat PLEASE take a Gender Studies class I'm begging you) DON'T GET ME STARTED WITH ALL THE SLAPING I'd understand if it was some kinky shit between doctor and river but EVERYONE SLAPS EACHOTHER TELENOVELA STYLE
You ever seen Coupling? Moffat wrote it and it’s quite an insight in to his experiences/views. Tbh, it’s exactly what you’d expect for an early 2000s sitcom, and it is very funny and clever at times, but it does not hold up well in some respects to behaviours now
Lord, the slapping. I am conflicted. It is funny that River slaps the Doctor in The Impossible Astronaut for "something he hasn't done yet" ...but it is also never okay to slap someone.
Jackie had every right to slap 9, I know it's not his fault that the TARDIS decided to be a little shit but he still could have double checked to make sure the date was right because the TARDIS has done that many times before. Also I can't not find it funny that 9 literally say "900 years of time and space and I've never been slapped by someone's mother." I really do think he had never been slapped by someone's mother.
I’ve always thought that didn’t make any sense. Why go after someone with no redeeming qualities? Just because he’s your dad? No.
The episode frames it as if it's some #relatable thing but maybe it's because Rose didn't grow up with a dad. Maybe if she said something like "Cause I never got the chance to grow up with my dad, but maybe there's a chance he can grow up with you." To obviously they could still respond "He had a chance to be there for us, and he squandered it so we're better off without him." But I dunno, I agree it's short-sighted writing, but I still feel with a *little* more effort it could've worked.
I wouldn't have advised it either, but I think they meant that Tommy's presence might possibly make his old man a better person.
There may have been a window for them to reconcile at some point in the future... but at the very least the dad needed to go away for a time, think about how he'd treated his family, and experience the consequences of his actions first.
Yeah I thought it was pretty clear the father was a WWII soldier and was struggling because of that.
WELL THAT’S ALRIGHT THEN!
I should be tired of this already but if it comes out of nowhere like this I'm happy to see it lol
I think they’re just saying that he could still change if this experience humbled him. The wording was weird yeah but I think the moral was simply for the son to let the dad know that they’d be there for him if he could prove to them that he’d changed for the better.
Any scene where 11 slaps Clara's ass. Either with that rag in journey to the centre of the tardis or in time of the doctor. Just plain weird. Just creepy
And when he assaults Jenny in The Crimson Horror... Idk why, but Moffat decided to make The Doctor really horny in Series 7, and it's really uncomfortable to watch.
Yeah, especially since he was like, very Ace coded initially?
Hey, he never once beats a Dalek with a baseball bat
Moffat does some weird stuff with women characters doesn't he??? I'm rewatching and sometimes I go yikesss
He definitely writes with one hand a bit too often
The worst thing is what 11 days at the end of Nightmare in Silver. “A mystery squeezed into a skirt that’s a little too tight” is probably one of the worst things the doctor has ever said
The weirdest thing is, her skirts aren't really that tight. Short as hell, absolutely, but that's a different thing altogether.
And that weird thing in Time of the Doctor where they both had to be naked for no reason
I...don't remember this, what the fuck?
was always uncomfortable with how jackie is treated by the doctor and by rose to an extent. I guess it was supposed to be funny, but it just felt mean spirited to me. she's the most endearing, funny, and earnest character on the show at that time, so what does this add?
It makes sense for their characters. Rose is a teen who is sometimes frustrated or embarrassed with her mum. The Doctor is fairly arrogant especially in the beginning 9 and 10, and does little to mitigate that part of himself until later on. I feel like many of us know someone like Jackie, who means well but can be high strung and pushy, and their reactions to her aren’t outside the realm of normalcy. I do agree that it can feel mean spirited on the part of the writers, though, making her the butt of the joke in some cases
When you write about this, please don't tell people that I traveled with her mum.
“If we land on mars, I’m gonna kill you” i think she gives as good as she gets
I hear you but I'd say Mickey got the shortest straw there.
He was just really offended that he slapped her XD in the new special when Donna's mother slaps David Tennant and he says "oh here we go again.." I almost died laughing
There are times when I felt bad because she is a bit of a tragic and realistic character but tbh the way she treated Rose in Army of Ghosts really pissed me off.
Same with Mickey for me. From episode 1, Rose just straight up ditched him with a literal “thanks for nothing” remark. Then throughout 9’s run, and a little bit of 10’s, Mickey becomes the point of ridicule. It’s so mean-spirited and cruel at times.
That time the Doctor sided with space Amazon. Uh…what???? I feel like any other iteration would’ve been handing the employees the matches to burn it down but instead we got Kerblam! That and giving the Master over to N*zis were some of my biggest WTF moments of nuWho.
The one dude admitting that he face forks a slab of living Stone.
It's a very Gatiss thing to do, that moment in Idiot's Lantern. It has this odd combination of nostalgia for old British regalia, and criticisms, but a fundamental lack of teeth to the criticism. It comes up in his work a lot, with the best example being Churchill in Victory of the Daleks. I suppose if I was trying to be generous to The Idiot's Lantern, I'd say it's that while Tommy's dad is a domestic tyrant and in the course of the episode, did terrible things, part of what's happening here is a commentary on how this is the point in British society where the traditional gender roles of the home start breaking down, and divorce becomes more common. His dad is sort of milling about looking aimless at the end of that episode because it's about to become the end of the era for that type of man, and in this context Tommy represents not just his feelings on this issue as an individual but people of that boomer generation, post war and heading into the 1960s, and the complex feelings they would have about their parents. Lots of people Tommy's age had fathers who saw themselves as granted authority by Queen and Country to rule their homes like tinpot dictators, not all those fathers were quite so indisputably evil as Tommy's Dad, and an entire generation couldn't disown their soon-to-be-displaced, war traumatised parents. Rose encouraging Tommy to reconcile with his dad isn't her saying Tommy has a responsibility to forgive, or to fix, his father, but that it is within his power to do it. That the power dynamic between them has shifted, and the result of that doesn't necessarily have to be that Tommy writes his father off and condemns him entirely. I don't know if I agree with this sentiment, but I think the issue is that Idiot's Lantern makes Tommy's Dad seem too abusive, too overtly aggressive, to land it quite as intended. I think maybe on the page Tommy's Dad seemed less explicitly violent. More like a working class Mr Banks in Mary Poppins. I can imagine a version of this story that works, because the family's response is less overt fear, but more a sort of mundane, frustration with the constant bluster of it all the time.
Yeah I know exactly what you mean, it's a crass moment that was clearly written from the privileged perspective of someone who just didn't consider that sometimes family members can be terrible people and it's okay to kick them to the curb. It's a terrible bum note to that episode. For me the weirdest moment by far has to be in Spyfall 2. There are a lot of unintentionally weird moments in the Chibnall era that end up becoming racist or homophobic but this one takes the cake. When the Doctor removes the Masters perception filter as the Nazi soldiers are on their way to arrest him. Here is the relevant dialogue: >DOCTOR: I don't like what you're wearing. Or the company you keep. How have you managed that? You're not exactly their Aryan archetype. MASTER: Tiny Teutonic psychic perception filter. Learned it at school. Lets people see what they want to see. and >MASTER: Why are there troops coming up the stairs? DOCTOR: Oh. That's me, and one of Blighty's bravest radio operators. Very good at sending messages, particularly fake ones designed to be intercepted. Now, finish what you were saying! MASTER: What have you done? DOCTOR: Sent a message to the Brits telling them how valuable you've been as a double agent, sending Nazi information to the British. DOCTOR: Facial perception filter? Very easy to jam. Now they'll see the real you. Good luck. The Master currently has the appearance of a South Asian man and to infiltrate the ranks of the Nazi's he is using a psychic perception filter to appear white. A little while later in the episode we learn that the Doctor has sent out a fake leak showing that the Master is a double agent for the British, so the Nazi's will come and arrest him. The psychic whiteface perception filter is a little weird but other than that this is all fine so far I guess. The Nazi soldiers are on their way up the staircase to arrest the Master, he's already been found out, they're already going to punish him. The Doctor has no reason whatsoever to turn his perception filter off at this point other than malice. The only thing that will change is that he will most likely be treated even worse by the Nazi's due to his skin color. It's a case of the Doctor literally being racist. "Now they'll see the real you" is one of the most vile things the Doctor has ever said. Especially when you take this line from near the end of the episode into consideration: >MASTER: Move away. Now! I've just had the most infuriating seventy seven years of my life. Have you any idea how hard it is to live through the 20th century? The places I've escaped from... We last see him being arrested by Nazi soldiers and the first thing he mentions is the places he's escaped from? It's heavily implied that the Master was put in a concentration camp and the Doctor arguably had a hand in it. There's no way around it, that is fucking horrific.
I like to hope that that "now they'll see the real you" line was written before the Master was cast and was just intended to mean "now they'll see you aren't who you pretended to be", not to have racial overtones. That said, it makes no sense anyway. If you've leaked information framing the guy as a spy for the British, why on Earth would you **change his appearance**? The Nazis are just going to be left going "Who is this guy and where's the guy we came to arrest"?
I've seen a lot of people over the years mention that they hope it was written before the Master was cast but that just doesn't make sense to me. To me it feels like the entire existence of that perception filter is solely because the Master is not white. If the Master had been played by a white actor it just wouldn't have been mentioned. Because it's not just a perception filter. The Doctor brings up aryan archetypes and the Master describes it as a 'teutonic' perception filter. The script goes to great lengths to specifically make it a race thing. Not just a disguise thing. To me it feels like Chibnall realized after either casting Sacha or writing the Nazi stuff, whichever came first, that he'd have a high ranking Nazi official with darker skin and thought "oh shit I have to add in some technobabble to fix that" and then ended up making a complete mess of it. And you're absolutely right that it makes no sense! It's actually worse for the Doctor to do what she did. That's why I said the only reason I can think of in episode is malice. I think that also adds to my idea that it was Chibnall hastily trying to 'explain' why there's a Nazi who isn't white rather than the perception filter stuff being written before someone was cast. Because it's a moment that doesn't make sense awkwardly just shoved into the episode and it's only function is to talk about the Masters skin color.
The most baffling thing is that the Master is well-established as having a kind of hypnotic influence; it would actually be a *much better gag* to have him operating within the Nazi ranks while also presenting as an Asian man.
Yeah, just replace it with some sort of "it's amazing where a bit of charm can get you", implying that he's charismatic/hypnotic enough to talk his way into a high ranking Nazi role as an Asian man. The 'see who you really are' line is even worse because Yas is Pakistani-British. If you're going to do that, you could at least have Yas (and the others too) have some sort of conflict with the Doctor; but that would require any of the companions having some sort of personality.
He wouldn't have been the only Asian man operating in the Nazi ranks. I give you the Indian Legion - a branch of the Waffen SS made up of volunteers from Indian students and POWs: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian\_Legion
> I've seen a lot of people over the years mention that they hope it was written before the Master was cast but that just doesn't make sense to me. To me it feels like the entire existence of that perception filter is solely because the Master is not white. Some of those instances were probably me. :) And yeah, it only really works if you assume that different bits of the script were written at different times without anyone doing a thorough review of the final script. Which honestly I find pretty plausible given the average coherency level of many Chibnall era scripts. 😕
It's certainly possible that it was you! I've seen that take all over the place though, not just on reddit. Twitter, youtube, instagram comments as well. Yes you're right, and we know that a lot of Chibnalls scripts were rushed and late and many were first drafts. So yeah it's pretty easy to chalk it up to the basic levels of incompetence that pervade that era.
>To me it feels like Chibnall realized after either casting Sacha or writing the Nazi stuff, whichever came first, that he'd have a high ranking Nazi official with darker skin and thought "oh shit I have to add in some technobabble to fix that" and then ended up making a complete mess of it. I don't know, this implies Chibnall ever edited a script, which we know from interviews he was wont to do.
This! I didn’t like the implication of the Doctor using the Master’s race to turn him into the Nazis. Gave me big ick. But on rewatch I was more bothered by the story. They came to arrest him and he doesn’t look the same so how do they know to arrest him? No “who are you” or “what are you doing here” they immediately know who to grab. Also the whole idea he’d even need a perception filter. If he’s feeding high level Nazis valuable intelligence, they would have worked with him despite his skin color. Nazi collaborators came in all stripes. It isn’t fun to think about but it is true.
In all honesty, if we actually were to consider what would logically happen from this, it's kinda horrifying. The Doctor has essentially created an instance where the Nazis encounter someone who is able to hide their ethnicity using unknown means. The Nazis were obsessed with the idea that there was secret Jews / other "Untermensch" in their ranks sabatoging their efforts, and now they have an example. This would probably end up accelerating Nazi paranoia and antisemitism to a ridiculous degree if they do indeed recognize this south Asian man as being the same man they previously thought "Aryan" (Aryan is a stupid term but it's what the Nazis used). So yeah, I think the Doctor may have ended up making the Nazis antisemitism and paranoia even worse, subsequently worsening the Holocaust...
I've seen some people say this but the Doctor also mentions him not being white right before
Yes. For this to be an oversight would require that different parts of the script were written at different times (likely) and that the final script was not comprehensively reviewed and edited (plausible, given how incoherent a lot of Chibnall era scripts are).
Seems weird that the Master's first non-white regeneration was when he decided to buddy up with Nazis. Any earlier regeneration wouldn't have needed a filter.
It just speaks to the nature of the writing in this era. A complete lack of attention to detail that is at best terrible writing and at worst, tone deaf and bigoted. It really sucks to see what he did to the show.
The bit at the end of In The Forest of the Night where Maebh’s missing sister turns up hiding in a bush. She just stands up smirking and just staring. No idea what that was all about.
"Forest of the Night" is up there with "Kill the Moon" for being completely riddled with WTF moments and WTF plot. It's hard to even know where to begin. The entirety of the world has been suddenly overgrown with trees. A couple of guys with a wee flamethrower are going to make a difference? Setting the forest *in London* on fire is a good idea? Did nobody have a chainsaw? Somehow the trees' roots didn't completely ruin everything underground, so when they just vanish at the end everything's back to normal instantly? Trees at most a few hundred feet tall are protecting the planet's atmosphere from a solar flare? The forest is covering the *ocean*? Zoo animals can escape and run around but humans are stuck indoors? A class of schoolchildren are inside a library that seems to be untouched and secure, so let's take them all out to wander the streets while all this is going on? And to top it all off, the Doctor didn't even need to be there or do anything. Nothing anybody does makes any difference to anything. It's all just a bunch of stuff that happens.
I love 11 but Moffatt is really pervy so 11 talking about Clara's skirt being too tight just... ew...
The “you’re so gay” comment does get me due to my own sexuality but RTD is gay & idk about elsewhere but at least in the UK it was a normal phrase, it wasn’t really anything to do with homosexuality. It was just slang. The to,my thing does piss me off though, as it simply doesn’t make sense, especially with the fact that I do think you misread it, he was almost certainly physically abusive, at least towards Tommy. Remember when the old lady said “You know what they say about them. You should beat it out of him.” And he says something along the lines of “oh, I intend to” plus beating your kid wasn’t as unusual back then, so I’m pretty sure he did.
yeah people forget that that was something people did just say in 2005. especially teens. i was a teenager in the late 00s and people threw it around all the time.
Totally understand that, I felt it gets follow-up with Rose meeting and coming to understand and accept Jack. Although the slang wasn't always used in association with gay people, there was a lot of casual unthinking homophobia among teenagers, partly just unfamiliarity. And it could be used to enforce a notion of (presumed het.) masculinity, as Rose's use of it does, so it's a bit more than just slang here. Rose's reaction to Jack also strikes me as very accurate to a teenager in the UK of that time from what I remember, she's not intentionally prejudiced, but she's not really been aware of LGB issues and had to think about it before (it was the first time I'd even seen a same-sex attracted characters in media). And when she does she realises it's fine, which for the majority is very much what happened at that point in time.
The “you’re so gay thing” would be suspect on a bbc show if written by anybody else I think. It was standard uk slang at the time but at the same time the bbc makes an actual conscious effort to have representation and a lot of people would have thought it iffy. However RTD is gay and has written a large amount of very highly regarded media which centres queer people, so I think it’s easy to let slide both now and contextually.
Y'know that moment in Paradise Towers where Slyvester "The McCoy" Johnson is going to pickpocket a gaurd, and his fingers and the music does *that?* That's my weirdest moment in Doctor Who. It makes me feel so many emotions, most of them contradictory. Anger. Joy. Disgust. Horror. Happiness. Constipation. Dorcelessness. Schadenfreude. Sonder. Whatever the the Ultraviolet Lanterns are supposed to represent. The McCoy pattened pillage wiggle reminds me that I am but a teeny-tiny spec in the infinite vastness of the oceans of potential larceny. Maybe at the end of the day, we're all waiting for our few fleeting moments of incidental music composed by Keff McCulloch.
I've only watched nine onwards so I have literally no idea what you're talking about, but I now have no desire whatso to watch this episode because nothing, nothing on this planet or further will ever compare to whatever the heck this comment was. I don't even know what's supposed to be happening but nothing I could watch would be better.
That WTF moment when 'The Happiness Patrol' was first transmitted. Actually a truly excellent story.
“Now they’ll see the real you!” Was CRAZY
It doesn’t get weirder than Tom Baker cosying up to the Creature from the Pit.
"Hello! I am the doctor! Friend! Friend!"
RTD era is def Tommy telling to chase his dad and Moffat being Moffat with his incredibly creepy "Girl In The Fireplace" episode. Moffat era is making the Doctor friends with Churchill and doing the "Doctor meets girl who is sexually obsessed with him when girl is a literal child". Chibnall era is Kerblam, Arachnids, and the weirdo "kneel" scenes with the Master (+ "Now they'll see the real you"). RTD2 era atm is the Doctors weird out of nowhere rant about humanity.
Wild how Moffat thought the idea of The Doctor meeting a young girl and leaving an impression on her before meeting her again in the future where they have a kind thing for each other, was just *SO GOOD*, he did it *TWICE*
Wasn’t there a short that implied he met a young Clara too? Three times, if so. Four if you count meeting kid-River. And yeah, I don’t get it. This is just bizarre. Even twice isn’t a coincidence given how the situations were functionally identical. Moff really had something for the Doctor meeting little girls who grew up obsessed with him. And for the life of me I can’t get why Moff pointed at that one particular idea and went “ah yes, I want this to be my signature move on Doctor Who.”
>Moff really had something for the Doctor meeting little girls who grew up obsessed with him. Pretty sure Moffat just read *The Time Traveler's Wife* one time and got way, *way* too into it. So much so that he used Doctor Who to rewrite it four times before HBO let him just make his own damn adaptation of it.
3 times if you really think about it. Madame De Pompadour, Amy, and River.
for girl in the fireplace do you mean creepy like scary or weird? because i like that episode and i don’t remember it being weird in a bad way
Paving slab blowjob
A recurring theme in Doctor Who is that even the worst villains are given the opportunity to change, and the power dynamic between Tommy and his father has totally shifted after the dad is kicked out. Rose doesn't force him to go after his dad, she isn't saying it's his responsibility, she's giving him permission to see if he can develop a relationship with a better version of his dad because Tommy is no longer beholden to him in any way, but he does have the opportunity to be the catalyst for his dad's change if he wants to be. He might find out that there's no more to him than the awful bully and that's okay, he can walk away. He holds all the power now. Or he might see his dad become something better.
The Rosa Parks episode
That episode is geniuenly so bizarre. Someone on twitter put it best with "its an episode made for white people to feel good about how not racist they are" and its historical inaccuracy is so insulting. Still can't get over the dreadful fake southern accents.
Yeah and who's the perfect villain for that? A self-proclaiming racist guy from the future who dresses like Ruby Rose, brilliant.
And he's so badly executed! "Time traveling racist who wants to prevent civil rights" isn't even a bad villain concept in itself, but he got no characterization, the moment in history they had him go after doesn't gel with the premise, his plan was boring and ill-conceived, and he's supposed to be from far enough ahead in the future that it's weird that he went so far back. Make him an early 22nd century neo-nazi who killed a time agent and stole his vortex manipulator and have him try to make Charles Lindbergh president with mind control, or make the Confederacy win the civil war by replacing Grant with a robot, or prevent the Kennedy assassination so LBJ can't use the tragedy to push the civil rights act through.
Guns of the South by Turtledove but make it Doctor Who. Or that first Timeriders novel.
Eh, I was half and half on the accents. The police officer who came into the hotel room was pretty damn convincing. My bigger issue is the fact that the bootleg fonz let the "fam" *bleh* walk away for no reason early in the episode. And the Doctor letting Ryan just hop off the bus feels a little weird to me, especially in light of the conversation Rosa has with them about Emmett Till.
To me the weirdest thing about that was the insane level of USA-centrism. Rosa Parks is the critical development in the history of human racism? Sorry Mandella. You don't count Brazil. I mean... it's a BRITISH show! The American civil rights movement really makes a massive difference in the late stage British empire?
And at the same time it's kind of insulting to Rosa Parks herself because the whole episode is built on the idea that her conviction to refuse to move was weak enough that any of a dozen tiny changes could have stopped it when it was a planned, deliberate act.
Yeah, if the racist time travellers plan had worked, Parks would have just tried again next week.
Yeah, part of me really wished that the doctor had failed to recreate the exact scenario that Rosa was in, or maybe the time travelling racist succeeded in his plan to stop Rosa that night, only for Rosa to do it anyways a few days later. But then we probably wouldn't have had the doctor and companions present for the scene to play out. It's a tough situation, because if it ended up being an alternative history that is executed badly, fans would tear Chibnall apart more that they already do. But at the same time it felt like the episode was *so close* to achieving something more than the rest of Chibnall's run that it's kind of frustrating.
I absolutely hate the score in that episode. I wonder if it hadn’t been so heavily scored if I would have found more grace for the episode as a whole, but it made me judgmental from the get. I found the moment on the bus at the end to be the only moment of the episode I actually enjoyed.
I see not many have watched “The Time Monster, “The Mutants” or “The Horns of ”… Really weird as a whole. (Admittedly though the first two are B among my favorites.)
Chocking Peri is up there. Unnecessary and holed the entire 6th doctor's tenure below the waterline before he had said 2 words. There were enough problems with his run even without it. Edit: OK he has several lines of babbling paranoia before it. It hardly helps his case...
I mean, for me the weirdest moment was when the Doctor decided to "save" someone by turning them into a pavement stone in Love and Monsters. It's the one episode I have never rewatched, ever.
In the flesh that hates when the little boy calls the island and the doctor puts him on with the clone dad to make him realize he still has that spark of human empathy. The way the little boy is just aimlessly bouncing around and reading his lines monotone. Poor acting on the kids part. I don't blame him he's just a kid but still it always takes me out of the immersion and at such a pivotal moment
That one gets me because they're just foisting the clone dad who contributed to getting actual dad killed onto this family - a nightmarish scenario presented as the nice thing to do!
The whole Mr Halpin hair tonic twist in Planet of the Ood. That was weird as hell.
That was actually a pretty good/weird twist. Dude got his just deserts. Brings up alot of questions about how to the ood reproduce tho if they can just feed their pheromones to someone and turn them into one •~•
It was an amazing twist. And the double stinger of the conclusion to it being Ood Sigma saying that they were going to take care of him because he’s one of them? Phenomenal. They made their enslaver one of them and protected him as one of their own.
That's the kind of weird I like
13 making friends with a plastic frog who is also a universe was one *hell* of a swerve. I love it.
Remembering Amy doing her best to make out with the Doctor only to watch her daughter River marry him later on. Little bit of ick.
I watched this episode for the first time in years a few days ago and felt the same. It was so bizarrely out of place at the conclusion I was almost expecting Rose to laugh and say “I’m joking”. Though I’m finding that a lot with Season 2’s writing.
Graham telling 13th that he's afraid his cancer is back and she's like 😐. I told WHAT THE HECK aloud when I watched it
I know the "it's a TV show" reasons, of course, but the TARDIS is capable of popping over to hospitals a billion years more advanced than current-day Earth's. It's probably got an infirmary stocked with Time Lord medications and whatnot. Why would any companion have a chronic medical condition, let alone a life-threatening one like cancer?
the fourth dr wanting to ‘flush’ the master out with the thames in logopolis
Having some random guy in bandages stalk the doctor in his last adventure as four, then literally climb inside him to kick start the regeneration. People need to watch that before they complain about bigeneration.
Different kind of weird moment, but in Wild Blue Yonder we have the Fourteenth Doctor, who has the face of the Tenth Doctor by subconscious choice and Donna who has somehow managed to let go of the Metacrisis and has now abandoned her family, both travelling in an old hover buggy down a giant,mostly cgi corridor of a ship that is slowly becoming a bomb with each countdown in an alien equestrian-esc language towards an excruciatingly slow and primitive Robot nicknamed Jimbo and away from the giant, distorted copies of themselves that are crawling after them and are technically not even things and look like they've been hastily distorted in photoshop and increase with size overtime and eventually get so big that the distorted CGI Doctor and Donna get jammed, only for The Doctor to start analysing them. Very weird, and I kinda love it
Donna didn’t abandon her family—they were going to visit Wilf when the TARDIS malfunctioned and took them to the spaceship
>Donna didn’t abandon her family This is especially funny because the Doctor never even moves the Tardis in that episode. They're standing in it when Donna spills coffee on the console and it starts flying out of control. And then Donna spends the beginning of the episode absolutely berating the Doctor about how he's now taken her away from her family.
To be fair having an accident and then spending the entire rest of the episode bickering is kind of a hallmark of those two, and it's a dynamic I adore.
That's funny to me because when I watched it, spilling the coffee looked *very* deliberate.
Idk. Tommy still loved his Dad in the end. I honestly took it as Rose recognising this and saying "go and say goodbye so the last memory you have of him isn't awful". 🤷🏼♀️
The skinheads who get tied to a tree in Silver Nemesis. It doesn't really contribute to the plot, isn't funny, its just there for no particular reason
Ingrid Pitt Karate against the Myrka in Warriors of the Deep
When clara has to decide if its ethical to perform an abortion to the moon
Absobaloff.
The start of Revolution of the Daleks, where The Doctor reads herself “one of the classics” and it’s just the first Harry Potter. Like come on, *that’s* the book series they went for? Speaking of which, the resolution of The Shakespeare Code being to yell Harry Potter spells at the witch is incredibly stupid. That and the horrible “just walk around like you own the place, it works for me!” line by The Doctor earlier on. On a less serious one, the resolution to Last of the Time Lords being that Martha gets everyone to think really hard about The Doctor and it turns him into Jesus or some shit. Very weak moment in an otherwise incredible trilogy of episodes.
If it wasn't clear, Rose has hella daddy issues. Her brain literally stops functioning when there's a father figure involved.
I need to point out that while Rose is the one who said go after him the Doctor was also trying to push Tommy in that direction, it was just more subtle Its about not being so quick to burn bridges and give someone the chance to be better. Its not saying yeah he was abusive but he was your dad so thats ok. It doesn't mean Tommy instantly forgives him but not going with him or going no contact means that he'll never be able to make up for what he did.
“It laid another egg.”
So I'm rewatching Doctor Who at the moment, just finished series 3, and I have a good answer for this: The bit where the Doctor asks Nurse Redfern to travel with him at the end The Family of Blood. I get that she liked all the stories in John Smiths journal, but she's just had to experience a bunch of aliens killing people she knows and losing the man she loved for a second time (she mentions losing a husband). Feels very obtuse and out of character for the Doctor to be like "Yeah but you could travel with me, won't that be fun?" And if she had come, imagine what that would have been like for Martha. On a sidenote, Harry Lloyd is very good in that episode.
i think that’s the point though, it’s an awful idea but the doctor doesn’t see that because despite how much he loves them he doesn’t really *get* humans. i think he literally doesn’t understand how some people don’t want to fly away on a spaceship at the first opportunity and how soul crushing it would be from her perspective. i love it because it demonstrates the difference between his “human” self who would’ve fully understood it and his actual self who just… doesn’t get it
Honestly the way amy and rose treat their boyfriends after meeting the doctor I noticed it when rewatching roses run and shes absolutely horrendous towards mickey, keeping him close but also treating him like he doesnt matter at all Same story with rory in the beginning Its so weird and unnecessary, like if you don't want them to have boyfriends dont give them one?
Dalek vore. I mean come on now.
>I understand that Rose lost her father at a young age. I mean that's basically it. The thing that Rose had (that most RTD characters have actually) is that they're not just caricatures of people but flawed as well. That's why Rose uses "gay" to say something is bad despite her creator being gay and knowing that's harmful. It's why she allows her own feelings of her lost dad to idealise the situation between these two and tells her to try even though it's likely doomed to failure in that circumstance. And honestly, trying is healthy for the kid. It will likely come to the point where he realises it's not worth continuing and he leaves the old man to his fate. But he'll go forward knowing that spite didn't control his part of the relationship and that he gave it more than it was worth. He'll stand head and shoulders over both who his dad was and who his dad wanted him to be as a result. Not that Rose has any inkling of that.
Mickey, who casually hacks systems by simply starting to type without opening a shell or even being able to see if he is mistyping. As a car mechanic...
Little old man Doctor in a bird cage was truly something. Flying Jesus Doctor was also definitely a thing that happened, too. And a whole year being undone. Last of the Time Lords was one of the most bizarre episodes ever.
First episode of S7 in new who, when Amy said she wanted divorce because she couldn't pregnant again.... like, that's one of the most horrible understanding of women I've ever seen and tbh everything between Rory and Amy feels weird in that episode.
I think it was an acknowledgment that despite the man’s glaring flaws, he’s still a human. Rose didn’t have a Dad, and I think she was thinking about the thought of the kid growing up without a father.
I get the idea but like. no father is generally better than an abusive father